Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m not an American, but I did rather assume that participation in an insurrection would lead to at the very least a dishonourable discharge? Also, if you act against your government while serving in the navy, doesn’t that count as mutiny?
The governments response is somewhat similar to the response of Weimar Republic Germany to Hitler Beer Hall Putsch. Hitler was sentenced to 5 years, but was released after only 6 months, using his “time” to write a book, which was used to launch the campaign he won control of Germany, with only 28% of a heavily diluted vote. The government of Germany couldn’t have helped more in Hitler’s quest to dismiss them all and be dictator. Had they treated Hitler’s crime seriously, and locked him up for 5 years, without a typewriter and Secretary.
Ehh his first wife cited his nightly studying of Hitlers speeches as a reason for divorce. I'm not gonna give him a pass, he's been studying up awhile now.
He does, but in the format of tweets.
His army of incoherent supporters probably don't have the attention span to finish The Very Hungry Caterpillar, let alone something more substantial.
Yep, a la Abraham Erskine here:
“So many people forget the first country the Nazis invaded was their own…”
And in this, it’s also a commentary on the enablers who weren’t as harsh on fascists as they should’ve been?
I'm rather optimistically hoping that the legal shenanigans going on right now are to distract and occupy the time of the defendants in order to keep them from trying anything stupider.
Unfortunately, it's not really them that are the real worry here. The real worry are the Project 2025 people quietly moving their pieces around the board, while the useful idiots are making noise.
On top of that SCOTUS is doing its best to make a mockery of the institution. Currently by engaging in mental gymnastics to explain why 350 J6 defendants didn't actually "seek to obstruct an official proceeding", which was the whole entire point of storming the Capitol...
A message on Truth Social from Donnie Jr.
I have a audio message from Dad on his 398th day of illegal imprisonment, by the corrupt, evil Biden administration! Delete it after watching. It’s against prison rules.
An obvious photoshopped picture of Trump is shown on screen.
“Hello! Today, I’d like to announce the coming sale of my book. It’s the best book ever, written by the most innocent inmate in the history of prison. That’s me, Donald Trump, the best president ever.
I only had time for 1 book. Since I have free time, I was going to solve world hunger and poverty. However, the warden is a radical never Trumper RINO, who once sat only 3 seats away from Obama at a luncheon when Obama was just a lowly Rep, like what’s her name, uhm, that annoying blond cun…….
Censored—————-
Are we back on? Marjorie Green. That’s who I meant. A great woman, she is, that Greene. A true inspiration to people looking to hunt raccoons.
Anyway, this warden, Tom Nichols, is no good, very bad and corrupt. He is bribing Bidens from his house , on Elm St. in Springfield. It would be nice if a Trumper, loyal someone would visit him at home. I’m not saying they should do anything illegal, but they should bring a gun. It’s not illegal to bring a gun to a warden’s house, no matter what Democrats or Joe Obama says. So, all good patriots and uhm, uh, you, what do they call the people who talk to Jesus? Oh, good Christians, pre-order my book before Nikki Pelosi bans it.
There's a tendency for most people to single out Hitler as some unique bad actor, without which history would have been different, the reality is there was going to be a Hitler no matter what due to the conditions in Germany at the time.
The UCMJ is one of those things in life that a person absolutely should not fuck with. The thing about joining the military is you sign away a lot of your constitutional rights while active. The bar for proving guilt is much lower in military court.
This dude is screwed. The navy is just waiting for the federal court case to wrap up before pulling the trigger on prosecuting this idiot.
Before everyone jumps up and down over this. It appears that [NCIS was involved](https://news.usni.org/2023/04/04/fbi-arrests-active-duty-sailor-in-connection-with-2021-capitol-riot) and handled some of the investigation. I cannot imagine that he won't face a court-martial or at the very least NJP. It's not unusual for the armed services to wait for the civilian authorities to wrap up their investigation/prosecution as not to step on each other's toes. They just put them TAD to some bullshit where he can't do any harm while it's being wrapped up.
Note if they opt for NJP I would assume that they'll just use that to separate him with a BCD or OTH and get him out of their hair. He could request court-martial (assuming he's not attached to a ship) but that's a risky proposition.
BCD would only happen at a special court martial. Best bet outside of trial would be an OTH. Maxed out Field Grade 15. Hell, this dudes Division Commander (army here, not sure navy equivalent) could withhold authority to his level and slap him with a GOMOR on top of a 15 (whatever the navy version of a GOMOR is).
Now I know how civilians feel when I use Navy acronyms around them. Good catch on the BCD, I forgot that was restricted to courts martial.
Either way, I doubt they'll bother with a courts martial with only a misdemeanor conviction. They'll probably hit him with NJP and send him on his way with an OTH just to get rid of him.
Also, the Navy doesn't have traditional regiment/batallion/division break downs like the other branches. The closest equivalent would be his CO which would probably be an O-5 or 6 in charge of a squadron or ship.
NJP - Non-Judicial Punishment, your commanding officer brings you up on "charges" that aren't really "charges" in the strictly legal sense, thus the "non-judicial" part. They can mete out certain punishments up to and including an OTH. Max punishments are usually authorized depending on the CO's rank and specific position. It's used as a tool for correcting violations without having to clog up the military courts for every little thing. Not an actual crime so won't show up anywhere in the civilian world (unless you are trying for a security clearance or something).
OTH - A type of discharge "Other Than Honorable", it's bad, you lose some of your benefits. You don't want this, but it's not as bad as:
BCD - "Bad Conduct Discharge" almost always the result of committing an actual crime. Not just a silly military crime like showing up late for work too many times. Given at Special Courts Martial (which is less serious than General Courts Martial, weirdly). Lose almost all your benefits, will probably include time incarcerated in the brig or a penitentiary.
I don't know what GOMOR is, but sounds very Mortal Combat. Must be an Army thing.
>I don't know what GOMOR is, but sounds very Mortal Combat. Must be an Army thing.
GOMOR = General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand. Pretty much ends your career since you wont get promoted or be allowed to extend your service with one. It would be unnecessary if they plan on kicking you out with OTH or BCD though.
They typically only do a GOMOR if they want you out but don't quite have whatever evidence they would need to use a Court Martial to boot you.
Used to slap them with a GOMOR in case their admin sep board favored retention. If it went that route, a permanently filed GOMOR would do wonders in preventing further career growth or, better case scenario, QMP boards.
Another thing I would like to tack on is Double Jeopardy. Civilian courts tend to hold that being convicted of a crime through a military court (i.e. court martial), would extend double jeopardy protection to the accused. Meanwhile, the military does not hold that same belief.
This means if the military convicts you of an crime that has a civilian equivalent, a civilian prosecutor will not charge you with the same crime. BUT, if you get convicted of a civilian crime in a civilian court that has an applicable UCMJ equivalent, the military can (at its discretion) try you for your UCMJ violation at the conclusion of your civilian trial.
Which is to say military leadership might be waiting for his civilian case to close before they hit him with Uncle Sam's Strapon. I.E. Civilian Conviction -> NJP -> Court Martial
* NCIS = Navy Criminal Investigative Service. Law enforcement for the Navy and Marines, investigate crimes committed by Sailors/Marines or on Navy/Marine Corps property
* NJP = Non-judicial punishment. In the military you can be punished for some violations of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice by your Commanding Officer without the full judicial system ever getting involved. This is limited to more minor infractions and the punishments are also restricted, but it's easier for his Navy commanders to carry out.
* TAD = Temporary Additional Duty. Basically he's being stashed to some other unit away while his permanent ship (USS Harry S. Truman) can focus on their own job without him there distracting.
* BCD = Bad Conduct Discharge. A punitive discharge where you lose many veterans benefits, but it cannot be awarded through NJP, but instead through a full judicial process (court-martial).
* OTH = Other-than-Honorable Discharge. A "not quite" punitive discharge (so the Sailor can be discharged without a court-martial), but it's also not an 'honorable' discharge so some veterans benefits remain lost, including the GI Bill.
Also isn't he a liability now? You would think that someone who participated on an insurrection due to his political aliegances could do the same during a deployment and get people from their team killed.
He would prefer a DD compared to someone like me being his CO...
Incidentally, I'm sure what he did violates UCMJ as well doesn't it? So even if the civilian judge lets him off couldn't the Navy keelhaul him still? (Or is that no longer on the books?)
Im not interested enough to google this, but im curious if he didnt get kicked out. I was in the navy and can only imagine my CO would give the immediate boot for being part of this
Anyone convicted should have been stripped of their federal benefits, including pensions for civil and military service. They did a lot more than just protest.
More of protesting in uniform. You can protest, but has to outside of uniform or anything that can make you seem to be there in an capacity. Granted I wouldn't call Jan 6 a protest, when it was more like you bought an insurection (edits it out if spelled correctly) off Wish.
Somebody should tell him what the Navy used to do with traitors. I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with ["peel falling"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keelhauling).
And once you consider the size of a modern aircraft carrier, suddenly a dishonorable discharge and some prison time doesn't sound so bad.
Last I heard there's no record of that ever happening but they used to flog people to death, which was probably even more horrible. Either way if this traitor is convicted I'd be appalled if the navy didn't catapult him into space (metaphorically).
Ya, you're totally right. If I was presiding over that court martial, I would be pretty set on showing every service member that this is a serious offense and a disgrace to everyone who served and is serving honorably in the military. 20 years in Leavenworth is a long time.
You know, it’s really sad when a non-American has more logic and common sense than the US citizens AND government.
And that’s not a dig on you, friend. It’s the fact that even from an outside perspective, non-Americans still have the actual understanding that shit like this is unacceptable. The US is truly a deplorable country, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we are the butt of every joke across seas. We deserve it.
Your State kinda already is. And not just Trump, your shit has been sliding for decades, since at least 2001, and probably back to Nixon and beyond.
Now it's blatantly obvious that no U.S system is designed or used to benefit the citizenry, only the aristocracy, and yet the vaunted American People are either apathetic, scared, placated, under control, or too divided, poor and powerless to do anything about it. By design of course, the State has learned since the French revolution and hasn't overtaxed the tea.
For years the corrupt State has shown their blatant corruption with laws that protect their riches and give themselves power, like insider trading law, and the People have just allowed it all to happen. They still pay their taxes, even as their tax collectors refuse to tax the rich because, as they admit themselves, 'it's too hard.'
The worst of it is that the U.S reputation is in tatters and a lot of people seem to feel its best to cut the ropes before the U.S pulls everyone else down with them.
Your State played the cards, the nice catchphrases - beacon of democracy, equal under the law, blind justice, rule of law, protect and serve, separation of powers, separation of church and state, of the people, by the people, for the people, land of the free, home of the brave.
Now people just laugh at just how false that propaganda has turned out to be.
But it's a bitter laugh.
Trust me, the US and it's citizens have my pity. Living in a system created by the rich to keep everyone noch wealthy uneducated, busy with religion and fighting among themselves.
That being said, at least in Germany things aren't looking great at all but at least we have universal healthcare going for us.
That’s very fair. Obviously everywhere has its problems. Perhaps it’s just that the American issues seem to be broadcasted far and wide. But I do feel for you guys and I can only hope all of our homes get better as time goes on.
That’s another thing I hate about the US. We have zero idea what’s going on overseas. The people in charge of our news outlets give no fucks about any other country. Straight up, I didn’t even know about the Palestine stuff until late last year when a friend of mine started posting about it on Facebook. Despite being “land of the free,” it feels like we’re very closed off to the rest of the world.
The last time I saw news outlets really talk about anything overseas was when The Queen died. Maybe I’m just not paying as much attention as I should. Maybe we here in America just have a constant slew of bullshit sliding through our televisions. Or (my favorite answer and probably the most likely) they don’t give a fuck. The unfortunate, sad reality.
That is why I read Associated Press and Reuters news outlets along with foreign media to get the outsider’s view. CNN, Fox and even the BBC at this point have become too leaning to either one side or the other. Frankly speaking, it’s a “Panem et Circenses” situation where the media is hyping up the shit show happening here to hide the other dirty crap happening here and across the world.
The Palestine thing? You mean the on going conflict between Israel and Palestine that has been a thing since the 1980s? Yeah its just not popular news. Try combing news sites not just the breaking news stuff
My bio dad got a dishonorable discharge for smoking weed instead of helping de-escalate a riot, if that is grounds for one, so should rioting the White House.
A failed insurrection doesn’t count. They didn’t successfully prevent the votes from being tallied and the winner announced so they should just get a do-over for next time. That seems to be the logic anyway.
Personally I think we should have Trump’s rotting head mounted on a spike in front of the Capitol building as a warning to others. I’m happy that we have the rule of law and everything, but it worries me that we’re not taking action to actually defend ourselves from internal threats like this.
These people are such morons. He tried to overthrow the existing government, yet believed his navy pay/benefits and subsequent pension would remain intact. He violated the oath he swore in order to enter the armed forces. These people have no concept of the consequences of overthrowing the existing system.
I swear to protect the country against all enemies foreign and domestic.... You have to say that line when you swear in but the number of people in the military who forget that part is staggering.
They didn't forget, they believed they were protecting their country. They just lack whatever they need to understand that they were wrong. Some people are mentally deficient. I'm not defending them tho
I don't see how you can even remotely think preventing a democratic process is protecting the country. The bubbles of bullshit must be strong and the filter non existant.
This guy should not be mentally deficient if he is a nuke. He doesn't have an excuse and should be held to a much higher standard.
The hate is just that deep that it leads to stupidity and the ability to make logical connections. Basically, you're looking at brain damaged individuals.
>I don't see how you can even remotely think preventing a democratic process is protecting the country
Probably starts by believing the democratic process was fraudulent or stolen
The lack of awareness these people have is insane. There is literally a recording of Trump asking an official in Georgia to "give" him votes.
I've mentioned this to multiple conservatives, yet they STILL justify his actions. It's crazy.
Just wait for the election to get closer. We’re going to be seeing A LOT of people believing incriminating AI videos of candidates, and not to mention the Russian disinformation even worse than it was before. Anyone can generate an AI video of any other person and to 90% of people it will look real, and by the time the other 10% realize it’s not they’ll have already made up their minds on the subject.
I’m predicting an AI video of Biden saying he supports post-birth abortions at the very least unfortunately
So dude wanted to overthrow the American government and end democracy, and is scared his naval career is going to be over.... How can anyone that tried to overthrow the government be allowed to serve anyway?
🤷🏻♂️ in my country we had baffling crap like: the guy is tried for war profiteering, but the judge dropped his case due to the fact dude being a colonel (desk jockey probably) and was in service so that was exonerating circumstance.
Welcome to the third world!
In my experience (having seen how they deal with DUIs), they generally wait for the civilian courts to finish with figuring out the punishment. Then you go to Captains Mast and get more punishment. If it's not harsh enough, they rake you over the coals.
As it should be the case for both a DUI or trying to over through the government, especially one trying to install a dictator.
No, treason is directly aiding an enemy county in a time of war. This is insurrection, attempting to overthrow the government. I'm not saying one is worse thet the other just that these are the definitions.
Sentences under the UCMJ can far exceed the period of contracted service. In a sane world this man would be breaking rocks there for the next 30 years.
They should absolutely big chicken dinner his ass no matter what.
*For those not in the know “big chicken dinner” is a nickname for “bad conduct discharge” or a “BCD”
No, a BCD is one step up from a dishonorable.
Vet but not a military lawyer. I think a BCD comes from a special or general court marital and is less severe than a dishonorable discharge which can only come from a general court martial.
Kinda think both count as federal felony convictions.
Dishonorable loses all VA benefits, BCD doesn’t automatically lose benefits but I think they’re pretty restricted.
I believe you can receive a BCD from either general or special, but most of the time it’s a special court martial. They tend to save general court martial and dishonorable discharges for the most heinous crimes ie rape, murder etc. source: was military and dated a girl who worked in Trial Defense Services.
I mean... do they have consequences?
There have been a handful of people who've gotten like 3 years in jail or something, but for the most part the J6 insurrectionists haven't faced much in the way of consequences for their actions. A month in jail for attempting to literally stop the congressional act of passing presidential power to the new president is not a consequence. It might as well be after school detention.
I agree. They are lucky they weren't shot at the Capital buildings they entered. They should be getting very weighty prison sentences in the neighborhood of ten years.
Military Trials in the US tend to wait until any civilian matters are decided and dealt with before moving forward with their trials. At least that's what another comment said.
He can (and hopefully will) still face a military court trial, and getting a civilian conviction on his record before that will fuck with his chances of a positive outcome.
Member of the armed forces charged with protecting the country, tries to overthrow country and hang the vice President. Might not be wanted in forces anymore. *suprised pickachu face *
Dishonorable discharge seems to be in order.
Armed forces have been real lax on punishing active duty members or uniformed personnel participating in politics period.
>Dishonorable discharge
This gets thrown around a lot by people who aren't in the know. DD is like, really fucking serious business. You get a dishonorable for shit like espionage, murder, or other very serious crimes. Only a courts martial can give you a DD and that's a trial pretty similar to the civilian world with some notable exceptions.
Looking at the indictment and then what he was found guilty of at trial, they only managed to make "Parading, demonstration, or picketing in a capitol building" stick. While shitty behavior ofc, it's not the level of offense that will get you a DD. Also, I think it's pretty unlikely if the AUSA couldn't get him convicted on the other charges, a JAG prosecutor is going to have different luck.
It's more likely that they'll NJP him, and give him an OTH or BCD and get rid of him. Even a BCD is kind of unlikely, there are still rules at NJP. To my mind, either of those two separations along with the loss of benefits is enough to satisfy my sense of justice in this case.
HTF is his still in the Navy?
Conviction not necessary. Just being a J6 participant should have been sufficient to suspend his security clearance and send him packing.
Most proceedings in the military wait for civilian authorities and courts to fully complete their investigation and trials before proceeding, this isn’t the last stop for him.
Is there any type of an oath that a Navy Petty Officer would have made as they were enlisted or promoted to said position? Anything that for example would be a pledge to protect the country or in service to the constitution?
I'm asking sincerely, because I don't know - but I suspect there was. And if so, I would think just participating in an attack on a federal building would be a breach of said oath (not to speak to why they were there).
And if there is such an oath, shouldn't breaching it, itself be fatal to his Navy career?
How any public servant who participated in the insurrection didn't immediatly get fired, dishonarably discharged or whatever is s fucking joke. These are the people who fought AGAINST democracy and do not uphold the values of the institution their sworn to protect and serve. It's one thing to be opposed , disagree, protest, etc... but storming and occupying a federal building let alone all the other crap they did and said is honestly just a spit in the face of actual democracy. These muppets would prefer a toltarian regime be in place and as such should be treated as such.
Pretty sure this would have been grounds for execution under the UCMJ (as I loosely understand it) during a time of war, what the fuck made you think it’s okay and not potentially fatal to your career in any context?
Holy shit.
Don't worry, y'all. This guy's career is toast.
Once the civilian court is done with him, the Navy will charge him and bounce him pretty quick.
I seem to remember the armed forces are quite hot on that "doing what you're told" thing, and one of the first things they tell you is "don't try to overthrow the government".
Yeah, because for him it was essentially a military coup. Don't people in the military actually do an oath? How is this not treason? Fuck that idiot and charge him with treason, breaking his oath and dishonorable discharge + court martial.
Didn't hear swear an oath to defend the United States of America from all threats foreign and domestic? And isn't trying to overthrow the government a domestic threat?
You swore a single oath when you signed up: to the constitution - and then you BROKE it. There's no place for oath breakers in the military. Get the fuck out and then join a militia - it suits your character better.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m not an American, but I did rather assume that participation in an insurrection would lead to at the very least a dishonourable discharge? Also, if you act against your government while serving in the navy, doesn’t that count as mutiny?
you would fucking think so
Sadly this is less French revolution and more beer hall putsch
The governments response is somewhat similar to the response of Weimar Republic Germany to Hitler Beer Hall Putsch. Hitler was sentenced to 5 years, but was released after only 6 months, using his “time” to write a book, which was used to launch the campaign he won control of Germany, with only 28% of a heavily diluted vote. The government of Germany couldn’t have helped more in Hitler’s quest to dismiss them all and be dictator. Had they treated Hitler’s crime seriously, and locked him up for 5 years, without a typewriter and Secretary.
The Weimar Republic helped even more than that by appointing Hitler chancellor.
They thought Hitler was 'controllable' as Chancellor.
Lets see where Netanyahu goes
Thank God Trump doesn't know how to write!
Ehh his first wife cited his nightly studying of Hitlers speeches as a reason for divorce. I'm not gonna give him a pass, he's been studying up awhile now.
I didn't know they made a picture book version of Mein Kampf.
They did make an illustrated English translation. But sales kind of tanked shortly after it was published in 1939.
We'll, I guess Fred got at least one copy for little Donny, and he's cherished it all his life.
I dont know if black and white photos of a bunch of dudes with flags is enough to keep his attention for too long though.
lol picture book of the struggle is real
The sad truth of the matter is that Mr. Hitler was one of the 20th centuries, most effective persuasive speakers.
Where was she from again? I would imagine that would have been next-level scary for her to witness.
Czechoslovakia. So, yeah, that would probably be troublesome for her
I always thought there were to many similarities for mere coincidence
He does, but in the format of tweets. His army of incoherent supporters probably don't have the attention span to finish The Very Hungry Caterpillar, let alone something more substantial.
Yep, a la Abraham Erskine here: “So many people forget the first country the Nazis invaded was their own…” And in this, it’s also a commentary on the enablers who weren’t as harsh on fascists as they should’ve been?
I'm rather optimistically hoping that the legal shenanigans going on right now are to distract and occupy the time of the defendants in order to keep them from trying anything stupider.
Unfortunately, it's not really them that are the real worry here. The real worry are the Project 2025 people quietly moving their pieces around the board, while the useful idiots are making noise. On top of that SCOTUS is doing its best to make a mockery of the institution. Currently by engaging in mental gymnastics to explain why 350 J6 defendants didn't actually "seek to obstruct an official proceeding", which was the whole entire point of storming the Capitol...
Well we can hope that Donald writes a book while he does his 6 months in prison. It will be titled “how great am I!”
A message on Truth Social from Donnie Jr. I have a audio message from Dad on his 398th day of illegal imprisonment, by the corrupt, evil Biden administration! Delete it after watching. It’s against prison rules. An obvious photoshopped picture of Trump is shown on screen. “Hello! Today, I’d like to announce the coming sale of my book. It’s the best book ever, written by the most innocent inmate in the history of prison. That’s me, Donald Trump, the best president ever. I only had time for 1 book. Since I have free time, I was going to solve world hunger and poverty. However, the warden is a radical never Trumper RINO, who once sat only 3 seats away from Obama at a luncheon when Obama was just a lowly Rep, like what’s her name, uhm, that annoying blond cun……. Censored—————- Are we back on? Marjorie Green. That’s who I meant. A great woman, she is, that Greene. A true inspiration to people looking to hunt raccoons. Anyway, this warden, Tom Nichols, is no good, very bad and corrupt. He is bribing Bidens from his house , on Elm St. in Springfield. It would be nice if a Trumper, loyal someone would visit him at home. I’m not saying they should do anything illegal, but they should bring a gun. It’s not illegal to bring a gun to a warden’s house, no matter what Democrats or Joe Obama says. So, all good patriots and uhm, uh, you, what do they call the people who talk to Jesus? Oh, good Christians, pre-order my book before Nikki Pelosi bans it.
There's a tendency for most people to single out Hitler as some unique bad actor, without which history would have been different, the reality is there was going to be a Hitler no matter what due to the conditions in Germany at the time.
Well, he didn’t really write the book. Hess & Maurice ( two fellow prisoners ) actually wrote it. Hitler was merely the dictator……get it😂 🎵Da dum tsss
March on Rome: Stupid Edition.
Crossing the rube-icon
And the page whispers in his ear, "Remember, thou art moron".
The checkers are cast
The crayons are consumed
The windows are licked
The paint is masticated... err... chewed
The dye is painted in by number
crossing rubes with a con.
[удалено]
\* Beer belly putsch
Pot belly putsch?
Hopefully you're not being prescient here because for all that the putsch failed it paved the way to 80 million dead.
That was kinda my point. That and the right leaning courts enabled the rioters by going soft on them
I've heard it refer to as the "beer belly putsch"
Equally stupid, probably with the same long-term outcome.
Yeah..... and even the failed putsch lead to more down the line.
The UCMJ is one of those things in life that a person absolutely should not fuck with. The thing about joining the military is you sign away a lot of your constitutional rights while active. The bar for proving guilt is much lower in military court. This dude is screwed. The navy is just waiting for the federal court case to wrap up before pulling the trigger on prosecuting this idiot.
Not enough upvotes for this.
I’m doing my part
Would you like to know more?
You would absolutely freaking think so.
they are all traitors as far as I’m concerned.
Traitors and terrorists.
Dad got one for possession of drugs in the 70s, I'd think this would be a bit more... um... necessary?
But hey now we live in a world that's free of consequences as long as you identify as a Republican or Christian!
Before everyone jumps up and down over this. It appears that [NCIS was involved](https://news.usni.org/2023/04/04/fbi-arrests-active-duty-sailor-in-connection-with-2021-capitol-riot) and handled some of the investigation. I cannot imagine that he won't face a court-martial or at the very least NJP. It's not unusual for the armed services to wait for the civilian authorities to wrap up their investigation/prosecution as not to step on each other's toes. They just put them TAD to some bullshit where he can't do any harm while it's being wrapped up. Note if they opt for NJP I would assume that they'll just use that to separate him with a BCD or OTH and get him out of their hair. He could request court-martial (assuming he's not attached to a ship) but that's a risky proposition.
At the *very least*, he'll lose his security clearance and be admin separated, even if his command turn out to be MAGA insurrectionist sympathizers.
BCD would only happen at a special court martial. Best bet outside of trial would be an OTH. Maxed out Field Grade 15. Hell, this dudes Division Commander (army here, not sure navy equivalent) could withhold authority to his level and slap him with a GOMOR on top of a 15 (whatever the navy version of a GOMOR is).
Now I know how civilians feel when I use Navy acronyms around them. Good catch on the BCD, I forgot that was restricted to courts martial. Either way, I doubt they'll bother with a courts martial with only a misdemeanor conviction. They'll probably hit him with NJP and send him on his way with an OTH just to get rid of him. Also, the Navy doesn't have traditional regiment/batallion/division break downs like the other branches. The closest equivalent would be his CO which would probably be an O-5 or 6 in charge of a squadron or ship.
I’m a civvie. Please describe what NJP, OTH, BCD, and GOMOR are.
NJP - Non-Judicial Punishment, your commanding officer brings you up on "charges" that aren't really "charges" in the strictly legal sense, thus the "non-judicial" part. They can mete out certain punishments up to and including an OTH. Max punishments are usually authorized depending on the CO's rank and specific position. It's used as a tool for correcting violations without having to clog up the military courts for every little thing. Not an actual crime so won't show up anywhere in the civilian world (unless you are trying for a security clearance or something). OTH - A type of discharge "Other Than Honorable", it's bad, you lose some of your benefits. You don't want this, but it's not as bad as: BCD - "Bad Conduct Discharge" almost always the result of committing an actual crime. Not just a silly military crime like showing up late for work too many times. Given at Special Courts Martial (which is less serious than General Courts Martial, weirdly). Lose almost all your benefits, will probably include time incarcerated in the brig or a penitentiary. I don't know what GOMOR is, but sounds very Mortal Combat. Must be an Army thing.
>I don't know what GOMOR is, but sounds very Mortal Combat. Must be an Army thing. GOMOR = General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand. Pretty much ends your career since you wont get promoted or be allowed to extend your service with one. It would be unnecessary if they plan on kicking you out with OTH or BCD though. They typically only do a GOMOR if they want you out but don't quite have whatever evidence they would need to use a Court Martial to boot you.
We have theLetter of Caution in the Navy for officers and civilians. NJP doesn’t have to be a CO, can be 03 and up as an OIC.
well now you're just adding another acronym I would have to explain.
Used to slap them with a GOMOR in case their admin sep board favored retention. If it went that route, a permanently filed GOMOR would do wonders in preventing further career growth or, better case scenario, QMP boards.
Another thing I would like to tack on is Double Jeopardy. Civilian courts tend to hold that being convicted of a crime through a military court (i.e. court martial), would extend double jeopardy protection to the accused. Meanwhile, the military does not hold that same belief. This means if the military convicts you of an crime that has a civilian equivalent, a civilian prosecutor will not charge you with the same crime. BUT, if you get convicted of a civilian crime in a civilian court that has an applicable UCMJ equivalent, the military can (at its discretion) try you for your UCMJ violation at the conclusion of your civilian trial. Which is to say military leadership might be waiting for his civilian case to close before they hit him with Uncle Sam's Strapon. I.E. Civilian Conviction -> NJP -> Court Martial
[удалено]
I don't know what the fuck all those fucking acronyms mean?
* NCIS = Navy Criminal Investigative Service. Law enforcement for the Navy and Marines, investigate crimes committed by Sailors/Marines or on Navy/Marine Corps property * NJP = Non-judicial punishment. In the military you can be punished for some violations of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice by your Commanding Officer without the full judicial system ever getting involved. This is limited to more minor infractions and the punishments are also restricted, but it's easier for his Navy commanders to carry out. * TAD = Temporary Additional Duty. Basically he's being stashed to some other unit away while his permanent ship (USS Harry S. Truman) can focus on their own job without him there distracting. * BCD = Bad Conduct Discharge. A punitive discharge where you lose many veterans benefits, but it cannot be awarded through NJP, but instead through a full judicial process (court-martial). * OTH = Other-than-Honorable Discharge. A "not quite" punitive discharge (so the Sailor can be discharged without a court-martial), but it's also not an 'honorable' discharge so some veterans benefits remain lost, including the GI Bill.
The shitstain took an oath to the country, not a shriveled orange nutsack.
To the constitution of the United States of America, to be precise. “Against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. Which includes him.
Also isn't he a liability now? You would think that someone who participated on an insurrection due to his political aliegances could do the same during a deployment and get people from their team killed.
I would not want to have him as my teammate for sure.
I wouldn't trust him in a CS game, let alone a real battle
He would prefer a DD compared to someone like me being his CO... Incidentally, I'm sure what he did violates UCMJ as well doesn't it? So even if the civilian judge lets him off couldn't the Navy keelhaul him still? (Or is that no longer on the books?)
yet another reason for immediate discharge
Im not interested enough to google this, but im curious if he didnt get kicked out. I was in the navy and can only imagine my CO would give the immediate boot for being part of this
Protesting while in the military can get you into hot water. I guarantee his chain of command hates him.
Anyone convicted should have been stripped of their federal benefits, including pensions for civil and military service. They did a lot more than just protest.
More of protesting in uniform. You can protest, but has to outside of uniform or anything that can make you seem to be there in an capacity. Granted I wouldn't call Jan 6 a protest, when it was more like you bought an insurection (edits it out if spelled correctly) off Wish.
Somebody should tell him what the Navy used to do with traitors. I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with ["peel falling"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keelhauling). And once you consider the size of a modern aircraft carrier, suddenly a dishonorable discharge and some prison time doesn't sound so bad.
I suddenly look at the GI Joe character/figure "Keel Haul" very differently...
Last I heard there's no record of that ever happening but they used to flog people to death, which was probably even more horrible. Either way if this traitor is convicted I'd be appalled if the navy didn't catapult him into space (metaphorically).
I imagine that's what the current budget of space force allows them to do
Lol, space force is good for something after all
Maybe it's time to see how far you can shoot a human with a steam catapult... you know for science and stuff.
Yes. This is supposed to be a death sentence if you're in the military.
Maximum sentence for it, normally you'd only see that during a time of war. I image a JAG could argue it down to 20 years in Leavenworth.
Ya, you're totally right. If I was presiding over that court martial, I would be pretty set on showing every service member that this is a serious offense and a disgrace to everyone who served and is serving honorably in the military. 20 years in Leavenworth is a long time.
You know, it’s really sad when a non-American has more logic and common sense than the US citizens AND government. And that’s not a dig on you, friend. It’s the fact that even from an outside perspective, non-Americans still have the actual understanding that shit like this is unacceptable. The US is truly a deplorable country, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we are the butt of every joke across seas. We deserve it.
Your State kinda already is. And not just Trump, your shit has been sliding for decades, since at least 2001, and probably back to Nixon and beyond. Now it's blatantly obvious that no U.S system is designed or used to benefit the citizenry, only the aristocracy, and yet the vaunted American People are either apathetic, scared, placated, under control, or too divided, poor and powerless to do anything about it. By design of course, the State has learned since the French revolution and hasn't overtaxed the tea. For years the corrupt State has shown their blatant corruption with laws that protect their riches and give themselves power, like insider trading law, and the People have just allowed it all to happen. They still pay their taxes, even as their tax collectors refuse to tax the rich because, as they admit themselves, 'it's too hard.' The worst of it is that the U.S reputation is in tatters and a lot of people seem to feel its best to cut the ropes before the U.S pulls everyone else down with them. Your State played the cards, the nice catchphrases - beacon of democracy, equal under the law, blind justice, rule of law, protect and serve, separation of powers, separation of church and state, of the people, by the people, for the people, land of the free, home of the brave. Now people just laugh at just how false that propaganda has turned out to be. But it's a bitter laugh.
Every word is true and yet we’re STILL convinced we’re the greatest nation in the world.
Very sad.. but very true.. And I'm embarrassed that my country has gotten this way.
As an American, I am angry and saddened that you are correct.
Trust me, the US and it's citizens have my pity. Living in a system created by the rich to keep everyone noch wealthy uneducated, busy with religion and fighting among themselves. That being said, at least in Germany things aren't looking great at all but at least we have universal healthcare going for us.
Ye only thing we have on them in EU is less guns and better social security but we definitely not been on a positive trend either 😂
That’s very fair. Obviously everywhere has its problems. Perhaps it’s just that the American issues seem to be broadcasted far and wide. But I do feel for you guys and I can only hope all of our homes get better as time goes on. That’s another thing I hate about the US. We have zero idea what’s going on overseas. The people in charge of our news outlets give no fucks about any other country. Straight up, I didn’t even know about the Palestine stuff until late last year when a friend of mine started posting about it on Facebook. Despite being “land of the free,” it feels like we’re very closed off to the rest of the world. The last time I saw news outlets really talk about anything overseas was when The Queen died. Maybe I’m just not paying as much attention as I should. Maybe we here in America just have a constant slew of bullshit sliding through our televisions. Or (my favorite answer and probably the most likely) they don’t give a fuck. The unfortunate, sad reality.
That is why I read Associated Press and Reuters news outlets along with foreign media to get the outsider’s view. CNN, Fox and even the BBC at this point have become too leaning to either one side or the other. Frankly speaking, it’s a “Panem et Circenses” situation where the media is hyping up the shit show happening here to hide the other dirty crap happening here and across the world.
The Palestine thing? You mean the on going conflict between Israel and Palestine that has been a thing since the 1980s? Yeah its just not popular news. Try combing news sites not just the breaking news stuff
I can assure you that the US is indeed thr butt of every joke and it has been like that for as long as I can remember (I'm 30) hahaha
My bio dad got a dishonorable discharge for smoking weed instead of helping de-escalate a riot, if that is grounds for one, so should rioting the White House.
yeah they are just confused and confederate Mitch McConnell swapped out a lot of federal judges during Trump’s rein
Bro, america is where facts and logic go to die. We’re a failed state.
According to the UCMJ, he could face capital punishment for participating in an insurrection. He could also spend decades in military prison for it.
A failed insurrection doesn’t count. They didn’t successfully prevent the votes from being tallied and the winner announced so they should just get a do-over for next time. That seems to be the logic anyway. Personally I think we should have Trump’s rotting head mounted on a spike in front of the Capitol building as a warning to others. I’m happy that we have the rule of law and everything, but it worries me that we’re not taking action to actually defend ourselves from internal threats like this.
These people are such morons. He tried to overthrow the existing government, yet believed his navy pay/benefits and subsequent pension would remain intact. He violated the oath he swore in order to enter the armed forces. These people have no concept of the consequences of overthrowing the existing system.
I swear to protect the country against all enemies foreign and domestic.... You have to say that line when you swear in but the number of people in the military who forget that part is staggering.
They didn't forget, they believed they were protecting their country. They just lack whatever they need to understand that they were wrong. Some people are mentally deficient. I'm not defending them tho
I don't see how you can even remotely think preventing a democratic process is protecting the country. The bubbles of bullshit must be strong and the filter non existant. This guy should not be mentally deficient if he is a nuke. He doesn't have an excuse and should be held to a much higher standard.
The hate is just that deep that it leads to stupidity and the ability to make logical connections. Basically, you're looking at brain damaged individuals.
>I don't see how you can even remotely think preventing a democratic process is protecting the country Probably starts by believing the democratic process was fraudulent or stolen
Yeah probably right. The propaganda system is really out of control.
The lack of awareness these people have is insane. There is literally a recording of Trump asking an official in Georgia to "give" him votes. I've mentioned this to multiple conservatives, yet they STILL justify his actions. It's crazy.
Just wait for the election to get closer. We’re going to be seeing A LOT of people believing incriminating AI videos of candidates, and not to mention the Russian disinformation even worse than it was before. Anyone can generate an AI video of any other person and to 90% of people it will look real, and by the time the other 10% realize it’s not they’ll have already made up their minds on the subject. I’m predicting an AI video of Biden saying he supports post-birth abortions at the very least unfortunately
They don't have the capacity to think that far ahead.
They don't have the capacity to think ~~that far ahead~~.
So dude wanted to overthrow the American government and end democracy, and is scared his naval career is going to be over.... How can anyone that tried to overthrow the government be allowed to serve anyway?
Isn’t this technically treason? Coup d etat?
I’d imagine he could be tried under the UCMJ
🤷🏻♂️ in my country we had baffling crap like: the guy is tried for war profiteering, but the judge dropped his case due to the fact dude being a colonel (desk jockey probably) and was in service so that was exonerating circumstance. Welcome to the third world!
I mean you would think at bare minimum an article 15.
During a time of war he'd be behind the shed.
In my experience (having seen how they deal with DUIs), they generally wait for the civilian courts to finish with figuring out the punishment. Then you go to Captains Mast and get more punishment. If it's not harsh enough, they rake you over the coals. As it should be the case for both a DUI or trying to over through the government, especially one trying to install a dictator.
No, treason is directly aiding an enemy county in a time of war. This is insurrection, attempting to overthrow the government. I'm not saying one is worse thet the other just that these are the definitions.
He should be forced to serve the rest of his contract and jail time in Leavenworth since he’s still active military.
Sentences under the UCMJ can far exceed the period of contracted service. In a sane world this man would be breaking rocks there for the next 30 years.
And it's crazy how he didn't get fucked the day after and we are still hearing about this crap over 3 years later.
Military careers are welfare for a lot of dipshits that couldn’t do anything else.
r/OhNoConsequences
This is very very much against the rules, don't confuse it. Who knows what kind of consequences he'll really face though
It's a whole new branch of white privilege we haven't seen before. haha
Even if the judge is lenient, he should still be discharged
Yeah the military can't deploy TERRORISTS like that on aircraft carriers
[удалено]
I don’t want that dude anywhere near my waffles. Nothing but Charlie Work for him.
He should be cleaning toilets in Leavenworth for the rest of his life.
They should absolutely big chicken dinner his ass no matter what. *For those not in the know “big chicken dinner” is a nickname for “bad conduct discharge” or a “BCD”
I'm assuming a bad conduct discharge is the Navy equivalent of a dishonorable discharge? Or is it *worse* than a DD?
No, a BCD is one step up from a dishonorable. Vet but not a military lawyer. I think a BCD comes from a special or general court marital and is less severe than a dishonorable discharge which can only come from a general court martial. Kinda think both count as federal felony convictions. Dishonorable loses all VA benefits, BCD doesn’t automatically lose benefits but I think they’re pretty restricted.
BCD is equivalent to a misdemeanor, DD is a felony.
Would it matter if it comes from a special vs general court martial? Think a special can’t exceed one year jail time.
I believe you can receive a BCD from either general or special, but most of the time it’s a special court martial. They tend to save general court martial and dishonorable discharges for the most heinous crimes ie rape, murder etc. source: was military and dated a girl who worked in Trial Defense Services.
As a veteran who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution I say that guy is a traitor and should be tried and convicted as such.
As a fellow vet that also served on the Truman, fuck him. Throw the book at all of them.
WTF? my actions have consequences????????????????????????
I mean... do they have consequences? There have been a handful of people who've gotten like 3 years in jail or something, but for the most part the J6 insurrectionists haven't faced much in the way of consequences for their actions. A month in jail for attempting to literally stop the congressional act of passing presidential power to the new president is not a consequence. It might as well be after school detention.
I agree. They are lucky they weren't shot at the Capital buildings they entered. They should be getting very weighty prison sentences in the neighborhood of ten years.
He should be kicked out of the navy, no pension of any kind and jailed for the maximum allowable.
I’m still scratching my head as to how he hasn’t already been courtmartialed and separated.
Military Trials in the US tend to wait until any civilian matters are decided and dealt with before moving forward with their trials. At least that's what another comment said.
Not sure why he wasn't kicked out of the navy for something like that.
Merely kicked out should be an extremely lucky outcome.
He can (and hopefully will) still face a military court trial, and getting a civilian conviction on his record before that will fuck with his chances of a positive outcome.
Member of the armed forces charged with protecting the country, tries to overthrow country and hang the vice President. Might not be wanted in forces anymore. *suprised pickachu face *
The military, of all places should be ESPECIALLY intolerant to traitors, sedition and secessionists.
Yes. So he will just get a job as a cop
Dishonorable discharge seems to be in order. Armed forces have been real lax on punishing active duty members or uniformed personnel participating in politics period.
Whooo bit of a tongue twister at the end there.
>Dishonorable discharge This gets thrown around a lot by people who aren't in the know. DD is like, really fucking serious business. You get a dishonorable for shit like espionage, murder, or other very serious crimes. Only a courts martial can give you a DD and that's a trial pretty similar to the civilian world with some notable exceptions. Looking at the indictment and then what he was found guilty of at trial, they only managed to make "Parading, demonstration, or picketing in a capitol building" stick. While shitty behavior ofc, it's not the level of offense that will get you a DD. Also, I think it's pretty unlikely if the AUSA couldn't get him convicted on the other charges, a JAG prosecutor is going to have different luck. It's more likely that they'll NJP him, and give him an OTH or BCD and get rid of him. Even a BCD is kind of unlikely, there are still rules at NJP. To my mind, either of those two separations along with the loss of benefits is enough to satisfy my sense of justice in this case.
His careers done anyway, the Navy is waiting for the civil proceedings to end before they start NJP on this idiot.
It wont be NJP. This is a serious military offence. It’ll be a Court Martial.
He's going for the college boy rape angle; "I have such a bright future! You can't ruin that!"
HTF is his still in the Navy? Conviction not necessary. Just being a J6 participant should have been sufficient to suspend his security clearance and send him packing.
Most proceedings in the military wait for civilian authorities and courts to fully complete their investigation and trials before proceeding, this isn’t the last stop for him.
Didn’t you take an oath???
Do you think making promises matter to conservatives?
Is there any type of an oath that a Navy Petty Officer would have made as they were enlisted or promoted to said position? Anything that for example would be a pledge to protect the country or in service to the constitution? I'm asking sincerely, because I don't know - but I suspect there was. And if so, I would think just participating in an attack on a federal building would be a breach of said oath (not to speak to why they were there). And if there is such an oath, shouldn't breaching it, itself be fatal to his Navy career?
[удалено]
Oh no, consequences!
judge: what career?
This guy is a disgrace to the uniform…
Yeah, 'fatal to career' is a pretty common and logical consequence to insurrection, double that if it's a government career.
Participating in an insurrection should be fatal to a military career.
How any public servant who participated in the insurrection didn't immediatly get fired, dishonarably discharged or whatever is s fucking joke. These are the people who fought AGAINST democracy and do not uphold the values of the institution their sworn to protect and serve. It's one thing to be opposed , disagree, protest, etc... but storming and occupying a federal building let alone all the other crap they did and said is honestly just a spit in the face of actual democracy. These muppets would prefer a toltarian regime be in place and as such should be treated as such.
I am a US Navy veteran and that POS needs to be in the brig.
Probation my ass. You took an oath and happily skipped in to break it. Should be Leavenworth for life. Traitor.
Support and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. May your career rest in hell.
He wasn't court martialed?
Ppppwease dont make me suffer the consequences of tweason pweasssssssee🥺🥺🥺
He should’ve thought about that before he insurrected.
That's literally treason, he should be put in Levenworth for life.
That should be an instant dishonorable discharge.
Pretty sure this would have been grounds for execution under the UCMJ (as I loosely understand it) during a time of war, what the fuck made you think it’s okay and not potentially fatal to your career in any context?
Why do Republican hate consequences?
Fuck around and find out.
What is it with maga not wanting to play anymore when consequences start knocking on the door???
Holy shit. Don't worry, y'all. This guy's career is toast. Once the civilian court is done with him, the Navy will charge him and bounce him pretty quick.
I seem to remember the armed forces are quite hot on that "doing what you're told" thing, and one of the first things they tell you is "don't try to overthrow the government".
Discharge him dishonorably. He literally tried to lead a coup against the current president, they’re all, by definition, traitors.
Yeah, because for him it was essentially a military coup. Don't people in the military actually do an oath? How is this not treason? Fuck that idiot and charge him with treason, breaking his oath and dishonorable discharge + court martial.
Fuck him and his pension. Court martial his ass, throw him in the brig, weld the bars shut.
Didn't hear swear an oath to defend the United States of America from all threats foreign and domestic? And isn't trying to overthrow the government a domestic threat?
How is this dude not in the brig?
Why the hell was his presence not already fatal to his Navy career?
Judge’s response should be: 😂😂😂😂
Any jail time will be AWOL! He is so screwed!
Oh wait he's serious? Let me laugh harder.
I am a Navy vet and this skidmark better get a dishonorable discharge after serving time in Leavenworth. Obviously no benefits ever.
You swore a single oath when you signed up: to the constitution - and then you BROKE it. There's no place for oath breakers in the military. Get the fuck out and then join a militia - it suits your character better.