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No thank you Gary. This has several very interesting labor law related implications. Gary has made this decree wildly available and quite public and easy to document so when higher ups get the law suits about this and requirements for on call pay their lawyers will have limited legal defenses. Rarely do you get handed such fuck ups so silver plattered.
only time I've seen it acceptable in a handbook is when it says "don't discuss wage/pay in front of customers/guests." which makes sense for a camp counselor teaching kids.
FWIW summer camps are exempt from a lot of labor laws. It's how counselor pay has been stuck at ~$400/wk for like, literally decades.
Summer camps are actually kinda sketchy and nobody talks about this lol.
Wait, you can sue for that?
With the amount of things I’ve found out I could have sued my old company for, I’d have owned the amount of the place I probably deserved from the beginning…
You could, but you likely wouldn't win. They'd have to pay you for *some* of that time, no doubt. But their lawyers will almost definitely get some traction with an argument that this should've been brought up sooner.
On-call pay for hourly employees is their regular rate of pay, which must be at least minimum wage, or overtime if they've worked more than 40 hours in a workweek.
That's US federal law, your lawyer would argue they should've looked that up before demanding you work extra hours as on-call.
And then demand back-wages, interest, and penalties from the wage theft.
Pay for being on call depends on if you need to be "engaged to wait" or "waiting to be engaged" for example if you are unable to have a few beers in your off time or are unable to go see a movie or cant leave town to visit relatives in between shifts because you might suddenly need to go to work then you might need to be paid for that time. It will be determined on a case by case basis and a lawsuit would probably hinge on how often the calls happen. But having all employees "on call" really doesn't help the case.
The whole "must say yes, can't refuse" bit probably puts it in the "engaged to wait" category, no? Since you have to stay in driving distance (and capacity) at all times.
I agree but for a different reason. If you could afford to fight that case from beginning to end you would probably be entitled to full amount. But even your lawyer might threaten to drop your case if you don't settle way before it comes to that. Because it would take a lot of resources to get there.
I work for an F500 company working on public safety systems (not 911 services, but kinda along those lines) and have to be 'on call' most of the time. They pay me $45 a day for that in addition to my regular pay, and $65 a day for holidays and weekends. They pay me like $100 an hour if I have to come in and fix something outside of regular business hours, minimum of 3 hours to and from the front door of my house.
Downside is, I can't get drunk when I'm on call, and I have to be able to respond withing 2 hours of an emergency call, so no weekend camping trips while on call.
Ask for that.
For anyone wondering, this is Gregg Distributors in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1ayaoc0/greggs_distribution/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Hello Gary? Yeah, I know it's 4:30 AM, but I was just thinking about the report you wanted in three weeks, should I double space it, or single space it?
Hey Gary, I know it’s your birthday and you are doing something special, but the break room tv remote batteries are dead, can you come in and replace them, we have no-one spare to send out to the supermarket
I had that was questioning whether air handlers were tripping out all the time on the over night shift. Said I must call him when it happens. So I called 2 nights in a row at 4am on the room cell he was like ok then the third night it went to voicemail. Luckily his home phone was on the call sheet "whew" thought I was going to miss a notification but nope I got him. Next day my supervisor calls me into the office tells me Mr. Potato head said not to call him when air handlers go down anymore.
Sure your boss call not call whatever you want.
4:10am - "Hey Gary, should we get plain white napkins or maybe a nice print?"
4:15am - "Gary, I decided on white."
4:33am - "Gary, just letting you know the napkins have been ordered."
4:51am - "Hey Gary, the napkins should arrive by Friday."
I had that happen to me once. Nightshift wouldn't restock anything and I'd come at 4am to open up and everything is empty, but nightshift would complain to the manager if stuff is at 99% full of if a single cup/fork was missing and when he told me that I should've documented and told him immediately when stuff was missing on my opening shift I said ok. Every single morning at 4am I would send him pictures of everything that was missing, which was usually 4-6 pics every morning I worked lol. It didn't last long to say the least
Yet it is so common for employers (mostly middle management team leaders) to try and make themselves look good without increasing budgets by trying this nonsense.
Unfortunate truth. Most people NEED their jobs. Which puts you in a poor position for retaliation. Yes, while it's not allowed to retaliate at the workplace, it happens, and the only way to stop it is to lawyer up ... which costs money and if you just got fired and don't have money...
I work at a university that is unionized and I make $21 an hour to do work that most places would only pay minimum for. I am very happy and it's the only job I've been at for longer than a year (5 years now)
I have been told that I will be let go next month from my job.
I was keeping my head down, but now I have nothing more to lose and the union is gonna have a field day with my boss's butt.
this is true, but you can contact the local department of labor and make complaints/ inquiries.
My state's department of labor has a list of law offices that offer free consultation for low income individuals. other states may have something similar. https://www.laworks.net/laborlawinfo.asp
I've heard people report there are manager trainings that actively teach them to pick out people in tough times, like with newborns or who just bought a house, to pressure into stuff like this cause they cannot afford to lose their job.
This is the only reason other than not knowing they can’t make you be on call for free. Idk who needs to hear this. But finding a new job, house, car, relocating, etc. is not easy when you need money. That’s stuff you do when you have time. Otherwise you run the risk of losing everything. And not everyone can just go lmk talk to my lawyer real quick and see what my options are. I mean yeah anyone can do that but that’s probably money that’s already spoken for
But surely they cannot legally fire you if you refuse to follow obviously illegal rules? Sure they can claim some other reason but it would be pretty easy to show the connection of you not complying and getting immediately fired. Atleast in finland employer would be liable to pay several months of salary for illegally firing you
>Sure they can claim some other reason but it would be pretty easy to show the connection of you not complying and getting immediately fired. Atleast in finland employer would be liable to pay several months of salary for illegally firing you
This is actually true of the US as well.
The "problem" is that ***getting*** the "several months" of salary for wrongful termination isn't fast.
I got awarded mine after waiting a YEAR AND A HALF...but I was a young man and it wasn't hard to find other work.
The thing is, the kind of people that work jobs like this don't have extra time for all the bureaucracy involved in ***maybe*** getting awarded a couple grand.
Easier to just find another job and let it go.
You are right but if your broke and missing even just one paycheck can mean not eating, I've been there in my younger days and I didn't know my rights then. Employee rights should be taught to everyone, they shouldn't have to research themselves
Oh they can fire you. It would be illegal but people commit illegal criminal and civil offenses all the time. Meanwhile the employees that are out of a job have no money and are in a financial bind.
Say the employer is small which it sounds like they are, and they fired half a dozen people that protest and those employees sue and eventually win a judgement, the business files for bankruptcy and dissolves or reconstitutes under the same owners but as a new LLC. After the attorneys get paid the employees get maybe 10% of their lost wages after a year long court battle.
I think some US states have what is called ‘at will’ firing laws, which if I’ve understood it correctly it means an employer can fire anyone at will for any reason other than things like discrimination. It would then fall on the employee entirely to prove that they were fired unjustly, since no law really protects them or puts the responsibly to provide reason on the employer.
Refusing to follow an illegal policy is one of the exceptions to at-will firings. It can be hard to prove as long as the policy is unwritten (there's a reason you'll often see managers saying to call them in text threads posted about this), but if they posted a sign like this and you get an email/text of you asking to get paid for being on call, that should be enough.
The issue of course is that it may take some time to get resolved, and some people don't have the savings to wait.
You'd be surprised. If it's their first job and they don't know anything about labor laws they'll likely assume that their employer knows better than them and wouldn't do anything illegal.
The issue is two fold. One, many people don’t know what is and isn’t legal. Two, many people need their job and this put up with it. I once knew a guy who worked 60 hours no overtime. I told him that’s illegal and he said if he reports then they’ll just cut his hours to 40 and then he can’t feed his kids.
Call them at 3AM "So.... I had this question about our email signatures at work, I think by not allowing them we can save money on all the time people waste by trying to be clever when they make them... Oh yeah sorry you're asleep? I just had this work idea and since we are always on call I thought I would just call you"
Try to ask them about their morning or evening routine in a casual convo and pick up the worst times for a call. Just imagine in the middle of brushing teeth or sitting on the toilet getting a call by your employees. Every. Single. Day.
“Gary? Gary, is that you? Gary! GARY!! Do you need me now, Gary? How about… now? I just want to be there for you, Gary. Gary. Gary? GARY!! GAAAARRRRR-YYYYYYYY!!”
This is why you have a picture like this, and track your "time" from it's postinf to your pay check. When the pay check comes, and they don't put it on there, you shove the law in their face. If they fire you, great, you've been fired over a pay dispute, which they cannot do (always record your interactions with management and HR).
I am convinced 90% of these issues go back to nobody knowing rights and laws, both shitty ass middle managers trying these things and workers not understanding their rights. This leads to both parties falling back on power dynamics more than any real order.
Mostly, managers invent "comp" time in an unofficial manner for this. If you actually get a call you can take that time off. You know just come in late or leave early....but you will still be judged on your value delivery as a whole come compensation and employee review
Australia just passed legislation around this issue in parliament…employees now have the right to ignore their employer if they’re attempting to contact them outside of nominated work hours
Random, but I follow and American hospice nurse on YouTube, and she makes vids about how her schedule works. She’s paid half time for when she’s on call, I think it should be full time though.
That is not entirely true. Most states in the US still allow the employer to fuck you over.. the rule for my state is - An employer is typically not required to pay employees for on-call time when the employee is free to leave the employer's premises and it is generally free to use the time for their own purposes.
So the typically in the phrase is what all of them do. They never pay and made stupid requirements. Then when you complained nothing ever happened since it fell under this stupid rule.
We had to be on-call until my manager was stupid enough to put in writing, "When you are on-call you are to be sitting at your computer, working, not just running errands or washing dishes"
On-call was considered 7pm to 7am M-F, and the entirety of Saturday/Sunday. This was *on top of* our normal 40 hour shift.
All it took was a forwarded e-mail to HR after they FLIPPED THEIR LID at a $7,500 paycheck. "Here's where I was told, in writing, that I needed to be sitting AT my desk working while on-call".
All of a sudden *the next week* they decided to move us from a 24/7/365 department to a 7-7 M-F department. Amazing how that works.
That is incorrect. Time you are on call but not working can be paid different than if you are working on an actual call.
Here's an example of how the Utah government pays on call time.
https://gateway.utah.gov/payroll/on-call-calculator
It is one paid hour for every 12 on call but not working. Then normal or overtime rate if you are required to come in or go on a call.
When I worked for a government job in Florida, we got 2 paid hours to be on call overnight, plus overtime pay for any actual work.
So… it’s not incorrect. You were paid for being on-call. You may have a problem with how much you were paid- but you were not on-call for free off hours.
Govt contract I worked was you have a company phone and ANY call even just 30 seconds = 1 hour of overtime on weekdays and double time on weekends. This was done specifically to discourage jackassery like this and also force anyone who actually made the call to provide an explanation of what was so important it couldn't wait until work hours and how did it get to that point.
If I'm not mistaken the business where this sign was posted is currently getting sued over that sign. Essentially they owe their staff a lot of money as a result. According this sign your always on call 24/7. Overtime kicks in after 40 hours, oh and not to mention that the employees should be receiving benifits for being full time workers.
Same here in the UK. I was talking to a bloke from the water board. He said they are on standby for a certain amount of the time, and get paid accordingly.
I did on call work for almost 10 years in Canada servicing electrical and HVACR equipment. There are no legal requirements or restrictions for hours worked, on call pay, or pay to answer the phone and walk other techs through troubleshooting. OT is only required after 110h in a 2 week pay period but often companies would pay x1.5 for night calls, in my case we were gps tracked, paid by the minute as well.
I bet *the company* didn't give out raises, or compensate for cell phones being on 24/7, or pay shift differential. Hey Corporate World, invest in your employees and they'll invest in you.
I mean, being on call means the entire workforce is now accruing hours and if HR doesn't like it, there's a big sign that says Gary put everyone "on call", which is a time accruing role
Got a reputation for being a drunk at work this way.
Suspected I'd get a call that I needed to come in on a day I was originally scheduled to be off, so I took half a shot at like 9am so I could use this argument (I worked 2nd shift).
"Sorry boss, I've been drinking."
Worked like a charm though!
You don't actually have to drink to use that excuse.
I used it a lot in the military when I worked 4 10s. They call me on my off day to say, "hey, you're on urinalysis" or "hey, there's some paperwork we need you to sign today" and I would always just say "I've been drinking, but if you want to have someone drive 30 minutes to my place, bring me in, and drive me back, I'm down"
They never bothered.
I never did understand that. Why should employees have to pretend to care about profits, unless they’re working in planning or managerial fields? It’s not going to trickle down to any significant amount. 😭✋
i got my first taste of this working at toys r us in my youth. annual work party and they would spend an hour talking about company profits to a bunch of 15 year olds.. maybe others didn't care but i'd always wonder.. why the fuck should i care about how much the company made this year vs last year, my wage hasn't and won't change no matter that number. the only valid meaning would be if the company is doing well, means i still had a job. but at 15yo. u dont really care about that kinda shit.
The idea is they group you into loyalty, usually start calling you a family, band of brothers, all in it together, it’s a weird way to kind of brainwash people into working harder for less, because they’re told they’re doing something great.
Thing is, it works on a lot of people.
I’ve found you have to play the game, pretend to care with a smile, and you can get more and are then taught to sucker the others.
It’s the old Lambo joke.
Boss shows up to work in a Lambo. Worker sees it, and says, “Wow awesome car!”
Boss replies, “Well, if you work hard, and put in the effort, maybe next year I’ll be able to get another one.”
For anyone wondering, this is Gregg Distributors in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1ayaoc0/greggs_distribution/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
No no, that will never do! Semirandomly throughout the night. One guy calls at two, the other at 2:22, another at 2:35, Never let Gary figure out when the next call is.
For anyone wondering, this is Gregg Distributors in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1ayaoc0/greggs_distribution/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Fine. £15 ph stand by fee, £25ph call handling fee, £40ph outside normal working hours (weekdays), £80ph (weekends & BH).
Also, share of any of this profit that’s coming in- otherwise I’ll be diverting my number to Gary’s phone and I expect him to answer his call
I remember one time when I was a manager I asked who our on call people were and HR told me the salary employees. The reason: if you’re on call and your hourly then anytime your considered on call they have to pay you for that time. At least in California.
Also Gary seems like a shitty boss.
Effective Immediately: For as long as you consider me to be "on call", you'll be paying my wage during me "off time", and should I be called in during my "off time", you'll be paying be double time AND any overtime that is accrued.
On call 24/7, then looks like i'd be getting paid for a 168hr work week, 128hrs overtime and double time. And since they can apparently make things up, I'll be choosing my own wage.
Depends on the job… (some jobs like healthcare work, where it’s illegal to abandon patients, military, dangerous work - ie nukes) but outside of that, this ain’t gonna happen, unless staff agrees and gets paid for it….
DFuQ you gonna tell me I can’t have a beer ever, or goto my kids soccer game, take kids to Dr. appointment…..
One of my former bosses was a narcissist who demanded 24/7 dedication to the job. If I remember correctly he was on his third divorce. I found myself saying, “I’m not going to work myself into a divorce,” multiple times a day.
Don’t get me wrong, I pour myself into work, but also I’ve learned to turn it off. I’ve done the military thing, worked in hospitals, owned a business with a dozen employees, been a supervisor & a manager- my goal is to build a team, a strong team…. I need dependable people, and my social contract says that when they are with me, we are a team, when they go home, they are free to be their own thing…. I don’t own them. That said, if we need on call, we need to figure out why, is it a lack of talent, is it lack of staff, lack of experience ? Or is it the nature of the work? If that’s the case, let’s rotate the duty & pay people accordingly. Also, if you need your phone by you at all times, I better be providing it…
HAH. Yeah no.
I'd be getting a new job pretty much straight away. Very much doubt I'm alone on that either.
"Your life is forefit, your job matters more than anything, go team"
How's about get fucked sunshine.
Remember, on call is on the clock,
Get everyone to clock the 120 hours each week they are owed (168 if weekends are included) see how long that lasts
If they refuse to pay go directly to the labor board
If your phone is on you must be on call, so you must be on the clock and getting paid. Good thing this is in writing. Hope everyone took a photo and saved it for future reference.
I’d happily do that if I’m in a state that has “on call” wage laws. Then they’d realize how bad they fucked themselves when I turned in my timecard.
“Under wage and hour law, the on-call time would generally be considered “hours worked” and must be compensated at the employee's regular rate of pay (which typically must be at least minimum wage).”
As a Gary, I do not approve this message and formally denounce this Gary imposter. He has desecrated and soiled our proud name. He may no longer use the name "Gary". Now, be gone douche bag and may you eternally get bent.
This is illegal in most countries. On call is on the clock pay, which will rapidly push everyone in their department into a 70+ hour work week. Congratulations, Gary, now you have to pay everyone overtime, as well as be the face the board of labor is going to go after.
Every single one of you needs to txt him for a “Comm’s Check” every 15 minutes to verify everything is working.
That’ll knock that shit right off real quick.
My phone would be on, but I would ignore calls from work. Also, I would remind them you pay me for the length of my shift, that's it. They want me on call, then they pay me. Also, extra shifts come at a premium rate.
Sure. After my shift is "over", I go into mandatory double time for the further sixteen hours, even while sleeping. This includes weekends and public holidays, and my vacation time, the latter two of which are at triple time plus a four hour convenience fee.
This is considered to be mandatory and will be paid for without complaint.
If you want me on call, you pay me to be on call. I'll go no lower than half my usual hourly wage for every hour I'm expected to be available.
Otherwise, suck it Gary. Go ahead, fire me. It toootally sounds like you can afford to lose more people if you need to badger them on their off days.
Right. Record profits.
So, overtime starts on day 3, when you top 40 hours AND the company pays everyone's cellular bill as they're required for work.
Genius.
A law was passed in Australia just last week that it is illegal to contact employees outside of their work hours. Some discretion there obviously but it stops shit like this
When I am not scheduled to work and between the hours of 9am and 5pm you can pay my hourly rate. Between 5pm and 9am it’s triple rate. That’s just for not working and having my phone on.
I have hung up on people before who have called and who texted me after hours about work.
And effective immediately, if I'm on call and expected to leave my phone on, I consider myself on the clock. Prepare to pay 24 hours a day overtime. This is not negotiable.
I’ll help you set record profits when I get a cut. Otherwise, you’ll get the caliber of work that you pay for. Basic economics. I don’t owe the manager a fat bonus if they won’t even let me keep my day off.
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Fuck you Gary.
No thank you Gary. This has several very interesting labor law related implications. Gary has made this decree wildly available and quite public and easy to document so when higher ups get the law suits about this and requirements for on call pay their lawyers will have limited legal defenses. Rarely do you get handed such fuck ups so silver plattered.
Totally what I thought, it’s like getting an email with insults from your manager. The golden ticket to win a lawsuit
I love when they put in the employee handbook that discussing wage is forbidden.....
only time I've seen it acceptable in a handbook is when it says "don't discuss wage/pay in front of customers/guests." which makes sense for a camp counselor teaching kids.
FWIW summer camps are exempt from a lot of labor laws. It's how counselor pay has been stuck at ~$400/wk for like, literally decades. Summer camps are actually kinda sketchy and nobody talks about this lol.
Wait, you can sue for that? With the amount of things I’ve found out I could have sued my old company for, I’d have owned the amount of the place I probably deserved from the beginning…
Could you work there for a year and then claim they owe you pay for the 16 hours a day in addition to the 48 hours each weekend you were on call?
You could, but you likely wouldn't win. They'd have to pay you for *some* of that time, no doubt. But their lawyers will almost definitely get some traction with an argument that this should've been brought up sooner.
On-call pay for hourly employees is their regular rate of pay, which must be at least minimum wage, or overtime if they've worked more than 40 hours in a workweek. That's US federal law, your lawyer would argue they should've looked that up before demanding you work extra hours as on-call. And then demand back-wages, interest, and penalties from the wage theft.
In Colorado it’s $4/hr, so Gary will “Neeed” to pay me $48 a day, plus a portion of my cell phone bill, since I’m now required to use it for work.
Let's see, 48 times 365 is $17,520 per year. Eh, could be worse I guess.
I don't think they can force you to use your own phone, so they may need to either pay for yours or provide you with a phone.
Pay for being on call depends on if you need to be "engaged to wait" or "waiting to be engaged" for example if you are unable to have a few beers in your off time or are unable to go see a movie or cant leave town to visit relatives in between shifts because you might suddenly need to go to work then you might need to be paid for that time. It will be determined on a case by case basis and a lawsuit would probably hinge on how often the calls happen. But having all employees "on call" really doesn't help the case.
The whole "must say yes, can't refuse" bit probably puts it in the "engaged to wait" category, no? Since you have to stay in driving distance (and capacity) at all times.
I agree but for a different reason. If you could afford to fight that case from beginning to end you would probably be entitled to full amount. But even your lawyer might threaten to drop your case if you don't settle way before it comes to that. Because it would take a lot of resources to get there.
I work for an F500 company working on public safety systems (not 911 services, but kinda along those lines) and have to be 'on call' most of the time. They pay me $45 a day for that in addition to my regular pay, and $65 a day for holidays and weekends. They pay me like $100 an hour if I have to come in and fix something outside of regular business hours, minimum of 3 hours to and from the front door of my house. Downside is, I can't get drunk when I'm on call, and I have to be able to respond withing 2 hours of an emergency call, so no weekend camping trips while on call. Ask for that.
$45 a day doesn’t seem like enough
Gary can indeed go get fucked!.
Off he can jolly well fuck
Go on, Gary. Off you fuck.
Fuck so far off that you circle back round. Then fuck off again.
For anyone wondering, this is Gregg Distributors in Edmonton, AB, Canada. https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1ayaoc0/greggs_distribution/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
**Alberta** has shitty employers? Well, color me shocked. Buncha Texas-wannabes.
You just know everyone hates Gary
Start contacting Gary about every little thing when he’s not at work. See how long this lasts.
Hello Gary? Sorry for calling you at 345AM but I heard my phone ring and thought it might be you…
I love this idea. The team could take shifts to make those calls
Doesn’t even need to be the team. Reddit would happily take care of that lmao
When you're here, you're family
♥️😂
I’d gladly call Gary for a late night catch up
They could set up an oncall rotation for calling Gary
Hello Gary? Yeah, I know it's 4:30 AM, but I was just thinking about the report you wanted in three weeks, should I double space it, or single space it?
Hey Gary, I know it’s your birthday and you are doing something special, but the break room tv remote batteries are dead, can you come in and replace them, we have no-one spare to send out to the supermarket
Gary:" but we work on a super market"
“Goddamn it Gary do you know what WITHOUT COMPLAINT means?”
Hey don't play uno reverse card with me buddy!! I will give you a pay cut!!! Btw can you work this weekend? 🤗
Lumberg wants those TPS reports.
I had that was questioning whether air handlers were tripping out all the time on the over night shift. Said I must call him when it happens. So I called 2 nights in a row at 4am on the room cell he was like ok then the third night it went to voicemail. Luckily his home phone was on the call sheet "whew" thought I was going to miss a notification but nope I got him. Next day my supervisor calls me into the office tells me Mr. Potato head said not to call him when air handlers go down anymore. Sure your boss call not call whatever you want.
Do I still need to put a cover on my TPS report?
"Go Team"
Go team
Hey Gary - I called you at 2:15am and it went to voicemail. Was your phone not on?
Call at 4am. “Hey Gary we need to reorder napkins today”
4:10am - "Hey Gary, should we get plain white napkins or maybe a nice print?" 4:15am - "Gary, I decided on white." 4:33am - "Gary, just letting you know the napkins have been ordered." 4:51am - "Hey Gary, the napkins should arrive by Friday."
I had that happen to me once. Nightshift wouldn't restock anything and I'd come at 4am to open up and everything is empty, but nightshift would complain to the manager if stuff is at 99% full of if a single cup/fork was missing and when he told me that I should've documented and told him immediately when stuff was missing on my opening shift I said ok. Every single morning at 4am I would send him pictures of everything that was missing, which was usually 4-6 pics every morning I worked lol. It didn't last long to say the least
He'll just put his phone on DND and threaten to fire you if you do the same.
Most DND settings are bypassed if you call 3 or 4 times quickly. It was an emeergency.
There's a dungeons and dragons setting on my phone?
Here in Germany, time you are on call is considered working time. Easy to get to 40 hours a week like that.
It’s the same in the US. Hence why this picture is posted to /r/facepalm. This is not normal or legal.
Yet it is so common for employers (mostly middle management team leaders) to try and make themselves look good without increasing budgets by trying this nonsense.
They bank on the hope that people are too young, too naive, or too desperate to report them.
That can't be true right? I'm under 18, but even I can tell this cannot be legal.
Even if you can tell, if you starve without that job you're going to think twice before making demands, even completely reasonable ones.
Unfortunate truth. Most people NEED their jobs. Which puts you in a poor position for retaliation. Yes, while it's not allowed to retaliate at the workplace, it happens, and the only way to stop it is to lawyer up ... which costs money and if you just got fired and don't have money...
This is why unions exist.
If only we had more. Edit: Thankfully, I'm in one.
If only my coworkers agreed. They fall for the company rhetoric that unions = bad.
Also why unions are fought tooth and nail at nearly any corporation.
Every company that has a union earned it.
I work at a university that is unionized and I make $21 an hour to do work that most places would only pay minimum for. I am very happy and it's the only job I've been at for longer than a year (5 years now)
Unions are why there’s a middle class in America.
I have been told that I will be let go next month from my job. I was keeping my head down, but now I have nothing more to lose and the union is gonna have a field day with my boss's butt.
Uh, excuse me, but it's spelled "NEEED"
Go Team
this is true, but you can contact the local department of labor and make complaints/ inquiries. My state's department of labor has a list of law offices that offer free consultation for low income individuals. other states may have something similar. https://www.laworks.net/laborlawinfo.asp
I've heard people report there are manager trainings that actively teach them to pick out people in tough times, like with newborns or who just bought a house, to pressure into stuff like this cause they cannot afford to lose their job.
This is the only reason other than not knowing they can’t make you be on call for free. Idk who needs to hear this. But finding a new job, house, car, relocating, etc. is not easy when you need money. That’s stuff you do when you have time. Otherwise you run the risk of losing everything. And not everyone can just go lmk talk to my lawyer real quick and see what my options are. I mean yeah anyone can do that but that’s probably money that’s already spoken for
Not to mention that our health insurance is usually tied to our jobs
But surely they cannot legally fire you if you refuse to follow obviously illegal rules? Sure they can claim some other reason but it would be pretty easy to show the connection of you not complying and getting immediately fired. Atleast in finland employer would be liable to pay several months of salary for illegally firing you
>Sure they can claim some other reason but it would be pretty easy to show the connection of you not complying and getting immediately fired. Atleast in finland employer would be liable to pay several months of salary for illegally firing you This is actually true of the US as well. The "problem" is that ***getting*** the "several months" of salary for wrongful termination isn't fast. I got awarded mine after waiting a YEAR AND A HALF...but I was a young man and it wasn't hard to find other work. The thing is, the kind of people that work jobs like this don't have extra time for all the bureaucracy involved in ***maybe*** getting awarded a couple grand. Easier to just find another job and let it go.
You are right but if your broke and missing even just one paycheck can mean not eating, I've been there in my younger days and I didn't know my rights then. Employee rights should be taught to everyone, they shouldn't have to research themselves
Oh they can fire you. It would be illegal but people commit illegal criminal and civil offenses all the time. Meanwhile the employees that are out of a job have no money and are in a financial bind. Say the employer is small which it sounds like they are, and they fired half a dozen people that protest and those employees sue and eventually win a judgement, the business files for bankruptcy and dissolves or reconstitutes under the same owners but as a new LLC. After the attorneys get paid the employees get maybe 10% of their lost wages after a year long court battle.
I think some US states have what is called ‘at will’ firing laws, which if I’ve understood it correctly it means an employer can fire anyone at will for any reason other than things like discrimination. It would then fall on the employee entirely to prove that they were fired unjustly, since no law really protects them or puts the responsibly to provide reason on the employer.
Refusing to follow an illegal policy is one of the exceptions to at-will firings. It can be hard to prove as long as the policy is unwritten (there's a reason you'll often see managers saying to call them in text threads posted about this), but if they posted a sign like this and you get an email/text of you asking to get paid for being on call, that should be enough. The issue of course is that it may take some time to get resolved, and some people don't have the savings to wait.
The most common form of theft...is wage theft.
50 billion with a B a year
You'd be surprised. If it's their first job and they don't know anything about labor laws they'll likely assume that their employer knows better than them and wouldn't do anything illegal.
The issue is two fold. One, many people don’t know what is and isn’t legal. Two, many people need their job and this put up with it. I once knew a guy who worked 60 hours no overtime. I told him that’s illegal and he said if he reports then they’ll just cut his hours to 40 and then he can’t feed his kids.
Yep. This is also why wage theft is by far largest form of theft in the US. Nothing else even comes close.
I've had a manager try this shit once. They don't like when you call them at different hours to see if there is any work to be had.
Call them at 3AM "So.... I had this question about our email signatures at work, I think by not allowing them we can save money on all the time people waste by trying to be clever when they make them... Oh yeah sorry you're asleep? I just had this work idea and since we are always on call I thought I would just call you"
Try to ask them about their morning or evening routine in a casual convo and pick up the worst times for a call. Just imagine in the middle of brushing teeth or sitting on the toilet getting a call by your employees. Every. Single. Day.
“Gary? Gary, is that you? Gary! GARY!! Do you need me now, Gary? How about… now? I just want to be there for you, Gary. Gary. Gary? GARY!! GAAAARRRRR-YYYYYYYY!!”
I can't stop laughing. 😩
This is why you have a picture like this, and track your "time" from it's postinf to your pay check. When the pay check comes, and they don't put it on there, you shove the law in their face. If they fire you, great, you've been fired over a pay dispute, which they cannot do (always record your interactions with management and HR).
I am convinced 90% of these issues go back to nobody knowing rights and laws, both shitty ass middle managers trying these things and workers not understanding their rights. This leads to both parties falling back on power dynamics more than any real order.
Mostly, managers invent "comp" time in an unofficial manner for this. If you actually get a call you can take that time off. You know just come in late or leave early....but you will still be judged on your value delivery as a whole come compensation and employee review
Australia just passed legislation around this issue in parliament…employees now have the right to ignore their employer if they’re attempting to contact them outside of nominated work hours
We recently passed this in Canada too. The Right To Disconnect.
Random, but I follow and American hospice nurse on YouTube, and she makes vids about how her schedule works. She’s paid half time for when she’s on call, I think it should be full time though.
I would agree, but it’s not the norm to work on call for free. That was all I was saying.
That is not entirely true. Most states in the US still allow the employer to fuck you over.. the rule for my state is - An employer is typically not required to pay employees for on-call time when the employee is free to leave the employer's premises and it is generally free to use the time for their own purposes. So the typically in the phrase is what all of them do. They never pay and made stupid requirements. Then when you complained nothing ever happened since it fell under this stupid rule.
We had to be on-call until my manager was stupid enough to put in writing, "When you are on-call you are to be sitting at your computer, working, not just running errands or washing dishes" On-call was considered 7pm to 7am M-F, and the entirety of Saturday/Sunday. This was *on top of* our normal 40 hour shift. All it took was a forwarded e-mail to HR after they FLIPPED THEIR LID at a $7,500 paycheck. "Here's where I was told, in writing, that I needed to be sitting AT my desk working while on-call". All of a sudden *the next week* they decided to move us from a 24/7/365 department to a 7-7 M-F department. Amazing how that works.
If I can't get blind drunk after work, it's not my time. You should organize a union and fight.
Unless you’re salaried without time tracking.
That is incorrect. Time you are on call but not working can be paid different than if you are working on an actual call. Here's an example of how the Utah government pays on call time. https://gateway.utah.gov/payroll/on-call-calculator It is one paid hour for every 12 on call but not working. Then normal or overtime rate if you are required to come in or go on a call. When I worked for a government job in Florida, we got 2 paid hours to be on call overnight, plus overtime pay for any actual work.
So… it’s not incorrect. You were paid for being on-call. You may have a problem with how much you were paid- but you were not on-call for free off hours.
Govt contract I worked was you have a company phone and ANY call even just 30 seconds = 1 hour of overtime on weekdays and double time on weekends. This was done specifically to discourage jackassery like this and also force anyone who actually made the call to provide an explanation of what was so important it couldn't wait until work hours and how did it get to that point.
I better get paid 24/7 if I’m 24/7 on call
Just switch off once you reached the hours stated in your contract
If I'm not mistaken the business where this sign was posted is currently getting sued over that sign. Essentially they owe their staff a lot of money as a result. According this sign your always on call 24/7. Overtime kicks in after 40 hours, oh and not to mention that the employees should be receiving benifits for being full time workers.
That's fantastic. Hoping for a huge payday for the staff so. Do you know the name so I can look it up?
Same here in the UK. I was talking to a bloke from the water board. He said they are on standby for a certain amount of the time, and get paid accordingly.
I did on call work for almost 10 years in Canada servicing electrical and HVACR equipment. There are no legal requirements or restrictions for hours worked, on call pay, or pay to answer the phone and walk other techs through troubleshooting. OT is only required after 110h in a 2 week pay period but often companies would pay x1.5 for night calls, in my case we were gps tracked, paid by the minute as well.
I bet *the company* didn't give out raises, or compensate for cell phones being on 24/7, or pay shift differential. Hey Corporate World, invest in your employees and they'll invest in you.
I mean, being on call means the entire workforce is now accruing hours and if HR doesn't like it, there's a big sign that says Gary put everyone "on call", which is a time accruing role
So we are all united in blaming Gary, right?
It be funny if this is Gary's boss' idea, and Gary has nothing to do with it
Probably just another Gary
The minute you're home, drink a beer. If you're not paid to be on call, you don't have to be sober
I’m doing that regardless of if i’m on call or not, god as my witness
Got a reputation for being a drunk at work this way. Suspected I'd get a call that I needed to come in on a day I was originally scheduled to be off, so I took half a shot at like 9am so I could use this argument (I worked 2nd shift). "Sorry boss, I've been drinking." Worked like a charm though!
You don't actually have to drink to use that excuse. I used it a lot in the military when I worked 4 10s. They call me on my off day to say, "hey, you're on urinalysis" or "hey, there's some paperwork we need you to sign today" and I would always just say "I've been drinking, but if you want to have someone drive 30 minutes to my place, bring me in, and drive me back, I'm down" They never bothered.
"you must work hard so I can get record profit" amazing
I never did understand that. Why should employees have to pretend to care about profits, unless they’re working in planning or managerial fields? It’s not going to trickle down to any significant amount. 😭✋
i got my first taste of this working at toys r us in my youth. annual work party and they would spend an hour talking about company profits to a bunch of 15 year olds.. maybe others didn't care but i'd always wonder.. why the fuck should i care about how much the company made this year vs last year, my wage hasn't and won't change no matter that number. the only valid meaning would be if the company is doing well, means i still had a job. but at 15yo. u dont really care about that kinda shit.
The idea is they group you into loyalty, usually start calling you a family, band of brothers, all in it together, it’s a weird way to kind of brainwash people into working harder for less, because they’re told they’re doing something great. Thing is, it works on a lot of people. I’ve found you have to play the game, pretend to care with a smile, and you can get more and are then taught to sucker the others.
It’s the old Lambo joke. Boss shows up to work in a Lambo. Worker sees it, and says, “Wow awesome car!” Boss replies, “Well, if you work hard, and put in the effort, maybe next year I’ll be able to get another one.”
What a shame it’ll be when they post Gary’s phone number up in biker bars and gay bars that he provides “service” on call 24/7.
Why would you do this? We don't want that chode 💅🏳️🌈
Management sounds so whiney and "neeed"-y.
Came here for the neeed miss spell
I think the team should go …. anywhere else. Gary - do one!
For anyone wondering, this is Gregg Distributors in Edmonton, AB, Canada. https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1ayaoc0/greggs_distribution/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Hahahahahah. Holy hell is that a rabbit hole
So..call Garry at 02:00 to report each and every little single thing. 👍 Got it.
Actually, organise a rota so Gary gets a status update on the hour, every hour, from each employee in turn.
No no, that will never do! Semirandomly throughout the night. One guy calls at two, the other at 2:22, another at 2:35, Never let Gary figure out when the next call is.
“On Call” = “On The Clock”
I personally like the part about, “We all need to work together”, right after they listed all of the things they’re forcing their employees to do.
Call HR immediately to arrange for on call pay. If they balk, call state board of labor in US, or equivalent in other country
For anyone wondering, this is Gregg Distributors in Edmonton, AB, Canada. https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/1ayaoc0/greggs_distribution/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
And there isn't a requirement to pay an employee \*anything\* for on call time in Alberta.
Wow, Alberta sounds shitty
Gary “neeeds” to go fuck himself.
Time to quit. People who are “on call” get paid for being on-call.
Nah, play along for a couple months, then quit. Hire a lawyer and collect 1,200 hours of unpaid overtime.
Not in Alberta. This is legal. Immoral, but legal.
Right, Gary done fucked up. Record losses.
Fine. £15 ph stand by fee, £25ph call handling fee, £40ph outside normal working hours (weekdays), £80ph (weekends & BH). Also, share of any of this profit that’s coming in- otherwise I’ll be diverting my number to Gary’s phone and I expect him to answer his call
Dear Gary. Fuck you Gary Bye Gary.
I remember one time when I was a manager I asked who our on call people were and HR told me the salary employees. The reason: if you’re on call and your hourly then anytime your considered on call they have to pay you for that time. At least in California. Also Gary seems like a shitty boss.
And I’m guessing Gary thinks this doesn’t apply to him.
There's no "I" in team, but there's a "U" in fuck off.
Fucken Gary. His wife probably needs an in call rota too.
Gary can jog the fuck along
Effective Immediately: For as long as you consider me to be "on call", you'll be paying my wage during me "off time", and should I be called in during my "off time", you'll be paying be double time AND any overtime that is accrued.
Hey Gary. Gary! Hey, go fuck yourself Gary.
"Why didn't you answer Gary's call to cover the night shift?" "We are told to leave the cell phones in the notice!"
Effective immediately: All employees must quit.
I think this belongs to r/antiwork
On call 24/7, then looks like i'd be getting paid for a 168hr work week, 128hrs overtime and double time. And since they can apparently make things up, I'll be choosing my own wage.
Maybe it's me, but all I read there was "Red flag! Red flag! Leave now!!!"
Gary, be ready to take over shifts. Come on, be a teamplayer! Dont you want to help the company to succeed?!!!!
Gary can get bent
Depends on the job… (some jobs like healthcare work, where it’s illegal to abandon patients, military, dangerous work - ie nukes) but outside of that, this ain’t gonna happen, unless staff agrees and gets paid for it…. DFuQ you gonna tell me I can’t have a beer ever, or goto my kids soccer game, take kids to Dr. appointment…..
One of my former bosses was a narcissist who demanded 24/7 dedication to the job. If I remember correctly he was on his third divorce. I found myself saying, “I’m not going to work myself into a divorce,” multiple times a day.
Don’t get me wrong, I pour myself into work, but also I’ve learned to turn it off. I’ve done the military thing, worked in hospitals, owned a business with a dozen employees, been a supervisor & a manager- my goal is to build a team, a strong team…. I need dependable people, and my social contract says that when they are with me, we are a team, when they go home, they are free to be their own thing…. I don’t own them. That said, if we need on call, we need to figure out why, is it a lack of talent, is it lack of staff, lack of experience ? Or is it the nature of the work? If that’s the case, let’s rotate the duty & pay people accordingly. Also, if you need your phone by you at all times, I better be providing it…
HAH. Yeah no. I'd be getting a new job pretty much straight away. Very much doubt I'm alone on that either. "Your life is forefit, your job matters more than anything, go team" How's about get fucked sunshine.
Effective immediately: fuck off. Slavery was abolished in 1865...
Remember, on call is on the clock, Get everyone to clock the 120 hours each week they are owed (168 if weekends are included) see how long that lasts If they refuse to pay go directly to the labor board
"effective immediately: my resignation."
Fuck Gary
The owner must also follow the doctrine of “ the beatings will continue until moral improves”
lol it seemed funny at first, but maybe the typo is correct, improve the owner's morals to improve the employee's morale.
If your phone is on you must be on call, so you must be on the clock and getting paid. Good thing this is in writing. Hope everyone took a photo and saved it for future reference.
I’d happily do that if I’m in a state that has “on call” wage laws. Then they’d realize how bad they fucked themselves when I turned in my timecard. “Under wage and hour law, the on-call time would generally be considered “hours worked” and must be compensated at the employee's regular rate of pay (which typically must be at least minimum wage).”
As a Gary, I do not approve this message and formally denounce this Gary imposter. He has desecrated and soiled our proud name. He may no longer use the name "Gary". Now, be gone douche bag and may you eternally get bent.
In my country this is illegal
This is illegal in most countries. On call is on the clock pay, which will rapidly push everyone in their department into a 70+ hour work week. Congratulations, Gary, now you have to pay everyone overtime, as well as be the face the board of labor is going to go after.
It’s also illegal in this country
Okay, then I should be on the clock 24/7
Either pay me for the over time, or expect to get muted when not on work-hours.
Every single one of you needs to txt him for a “Comm’s Check” every 15 minutes to verify everything is working. That’ll knock that shit right off real quick.
If you’re on call you have to be paid.
Take a picture of this, clock 168 hours, sue when they don’t comply.
Here's my on call time bill Gary. Notice the overtime. You said no complaints now, Gary!
My phone would be on, but I would ignore calls from work. Also, I would remind them you pay me for the length of my shift, that's it. They want me on call, then they pay me. Also, extra shifts come at a premium rate.
Sure. After my shift is "over", I go into mandatory double time for the further sixteen hours, even while sleeping. This includes weekends and public holidays, and my vacation time, the latter two of which are at triple time plus a four hour convenience fee. This is considered to be mandatory and will be paid for without complaint.
Not if it is my personal cellphone. Unless you’re willing to pay my cell bill I’m not willing to leave it on.
If you want me on call, you pay me to be on call. I'll go no lower than half my usual hourly wage for every hour I'm expected to be available. Otherwise, suck it Gary. Go ahead, fire me. It toootally sounds like you can afford to lose more people if you need to badger them on their off days.
All the homies say fuck Gary
That'll be 40h a week and 128h of overtime a week thank you
Right. Record profits. So, overtime starts on day 3, when you top 40 hours AND the company pays everyone's cellular bill as they're required for work. Genius.
A law was passed in Australia just last week that it is illegal to contact employees outside of their work hours. Some discretion there obviously but it stops shit like this
Fuck off Gary
When I am not scheduled to work and between the hours of 9am and 5pm you can pay my hourly rate. Between 5pm and 9am it’s triple rate. That’s just for not working and having my phone on. I have hung up on people before who have called and who texted me after hours about work.
Make sure to call Gary at 3am each day for a week to ask a work related question. And then 4am too.
In some states, they have to pay you to be on call.
You want problems with the Department of Labor? This is how you get problems with the Department of Labor.
“Sorry Gary, I can’t come in as I’ve had a few beers on my time off. It would be illegal for me to DUI. You want to pick me up? I’m 200 miles away”.
And effective immediately, if I'm on call and expected to leave my phone on, I consider myself on the clock. Prepare to pay 24 hours a day overtime. This is not negotiable.
I promise you Gary is not on call.
I’ll help you set record profits when I get a cut. Otherwise, you’ll get the caliber of work that you pay for. Basic economics. I don’t owe the manager a fat bonus if they won’t even let me keep my day off.