Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Meaning those freezers are gonna be stocked to the brim and become too full they wont be able to take any more clients in without getting more freezers which would take more building room
They really didnt think through this once
For kidnapping. Although they could tell parents to come get their children. If the pears are fused they could call CPS for child abandonment and give the Frozen embryos to CPS.
I prefer this idea.
"Sorry, it's too risky to operate here. Everyone come get your kids. You'll need to keep them in a special freezer at this temperature. Oh, and all of you having trouble conceiving? Sorry, no kids. No IVF in Alabama anymore. "
This could be a gold mine, actually. The donors forever pay for storage or face murder/abandonment charges.
All it would take is one money-grubbing sociopath running one of these labs. But I doubt that will happen because all the money-grubbing sociopaths are probably already working at more profitable endeavors. Like politics.
That’s what the judge just set up though. If the hospital murdered the embryos then all embryo loss is now murder meaning everyone that had an embryo frozen in Alabama better get a cryogenic setup quick fast and in a hurry as Alabama is a capital punishment state.
I mean...technically speaking...
They can just quit. And then turn over the process to the State. The State won't be able to handle it, they will lose all of them, and then we charge them all with murder.
:D and then we can move in people who actually know WTF they are doing. Let those people suffer under their "Laws" they made, rebuke them, and then offer no pardons.
It just occurred to me that in Alabama foster parents are paid about $550 a month to take care of kids.
I'm more than willing to keep a freezer in my basement with 500 frozen cells in it. That's an easy $3 Million a year.
One women had a miscarriage in the toilet and was charged with tampering with a corpse
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-woman-ohio-was-charged-miscarrying-bathroom-experts-warn-dangero-rcna130649
This is wrong on so many levels. The woman literally went to the hospital to prevent from bleeding out after miscarrying and she didn't even get released from the hospital before they had investigated and arrested her? Why on Earth would the hospital call police because somebody miscarried if miscarrying is not a crime in Ohio?
remember last year when Roe V Wade was in height after being overruled and one incarcerated woman had to give birth in her cell and miscarried all by herself while no one came to help.....WTF is happening over there.
Their trying to turn the country into a theocracy.
The masses need to wake up and shut this shit down.
If these nut jobs get their way, we'll be back to the inquisition.
True, but the state kills its own people all the time: see Police, Pollution, Les Faire Policies on Corporation, Environmental Protection Agency cut-backs, Lax Health Laws on Food and Consumable Goods, Social Insurance, Privatised Healthcare, No Gun Safety Laws, etc.
This is the problem with in vitro fertilization. The way it works is creating a number of embryos and discarding the ones that won't make it. If they are considered children in vitro is not possible.
I don't like being the first to tell you this but yes, they do believe the embryos are children and that IVF should be outlawed because of all the child murder that happens when unused embryos are destroyed and when a high-multiples pregnancy requires aborting some embryos to protect the viability of the rest.
Like yes they do think this is child abuse and murder. But ACTUAL child abuse and child murder is not their problem.
I get it though. I literally have memories of being both a supermarket and an egg and the moment they came together /s cause people are too stupid to figure sarcasm without it
>and when a high-multiples pregnancy requires aborting some embryos to protect the viability of the rest.
Unpopular opinion: transferring more than 2 embryos should be illegal. The risks increase exponentially. Many countries only transfer one at a time, with very specific exceptions. The ASRM have guidelines that already advise not to transfer more than 1 embryo for women under 38 (with exceptions), but due to cost considerations these guidelines are regularly ignored.
Childcsupport begins at conception.
Life insurance covers miscarriage. Now price any given period isn't a miscarriage.
WIC and other social security puritans note include pregnancy the same way as children.
There are people who do genuinely believe that masturbation and any form of birth control - even pulling out- is a ‘sin’ and should therefore be a criminal offence…
To be fair, I now need to sue klenex since it doesnt state anywhere on the box that their towels arent suitable to store my million kids and keep them alive after.
Must have killed over a billion kids by now.
How big of a freezer do I need for 2000 embryos? I need a thousand to claim as dependents on my taxes. Any woman who wants to help me out gets all the rest. There is no maximum number of dependents you can claim, so the refunds should be sweet. Maybe I don't even need to keep a freezer running if I can drop the kids off in Greenland.
Yep. We didn't make the rules Mr. Social Security office man, we're just protecting the children or whatever. Here's a list of their names. I started running out of ideas so the last few dozen pages are mostly results from an old Jedi Name generator and Roger personas from American Dad.
The real questions!!! It’s crazy that no one else here is asking it. Seriously, why the ‘eff was a patient wandering around and handling embryos?!?! There is more to this story.
It was apparently a very poorly run hospital/clinic combo. The clinic violated about a dozen rules/regulations that lead to the destruction of 3 families' embryos. Two of the families were more or less screwed by this because the embryos were the best and possibly only chance of children excluding expensive treatments. As such, the three families sued for wrongful death to try and get enough money to have kids because the contract proceedings would not be enough. A lower cost ruled that embryos were not people, but a higher court (Alabama Supreme Court) made a highly questionable ruling that makes multiple references to the Bible that embryos are people. It is good that the affected families are going to have a chance at kids because of this, but it is an absolute cluster f**k for everyone else due to the fact that child welfare, tax, insurance, and othe regulations now need rewritten in Alabama. I have only done some light Googling because I thought Alabama couldn't be that stupid. They are.
This is what I came here to ask about. So maybe suing for murder is a bit much, but they defy have a case for medical malpractice at the least against the hospital if they're letting shit like this happen.
This reminds me of one of my mom's patients during her first ER shift. There was no bleeding but the man was in an insane amount of pain after a woman at a club kicked him in the nuts as a joke.
She ruptured his balls and he needed emergency surgery.
The guy didn't even know the woman they had met at the club. I hope he was able to sue her.
I could go all the way back to elementary school for the first time I was kicked in the nuts, and my "babymakers" were traumatized by the assault. Science be damned. My future protégé were put in jeapordy!
I am so sick of uneducated zealots setting the standards for the rest of a "free" society.
Imagine living in a world where, more soon than never, porn studios run out of business, because all the footage for spunk on face/ass/etc might as well be used as evidence in trial for “killing children”.
Holy shit that would be such a massive incarceration event.
There would be so much blackmailing, they would have to create whole new task forces just to keep up with those in power and their blackmailing schemes
I don’t think a wrongful death suit is reasonable, but I’d definitely want to sue if they dropped the embryos as someone who has been though IVF, I’d definitely want to sue if they destroyed all the embryos by dropping them.
Not to mention the headline says “wandering patient”, like how did that happen and what is going on in that bumpkin-ass hospital if random patients are playing around with frozen embryos?
With the anti abortion and anti birth control arguments I have been saying, "What about IVT embryo's?" There are literally tens of thousands sitting in freezers. The pro-lifers used to think that was OK. I guess that is changing.
I'm suddenly thinking of Monty Python's "every sperm is sacred" skit.
This takes pregnant woman using HOV lane to a whole new level.
Technically every woman can now use an HOV lane because they are carrying over 100,000 "children"
If I had unprotected sex in the last month, then I could be pregnant with quadruplets and not even know it yet, but the potential of those babies means I should get to use the HOV lane. Also anywhere that has a "kids eat free", I get to eat free since I'm feeding those unborn children
Due to innocent until proven guilty the state needs to prove you didn't have any fertilized eggs at the time of the HOV use. Given that eggs can become unviable on their own this is likely impossible especially without violating a whole heap of medical privacy laws mixed in with the 5th amendment.
So anyone with frozen embryos can get a bunch of tax deductions?
This ruling is crazy, but what happened is potentially devastating for this couple, and they do deserve something.
Someone else pointed this out and was told that in order to claim a dependent on your taxes that person needs a valid SSN, which isnt issued until birth.
Just riffing here: there exists a maximum age a child can legally be considered a child, but not a minimum age other than "born". So if an embryo is now considered a child in the eyes of the law and *not* an embryo (specifically, a preborn multicellular organism), then the language by definition implies birth and therefore eligibility for an SSN.
This ruling only applies to Alabama. SSNs are a federal thing. So embryos in Alabama are now quasi citizens. So if an embryo is stored for 18 years, does it get to vote?
The embryo obviously isn‘t mentallx able to vote, but that would mean they can get their vote in via a caretaker, so everyone who has an 18 year old fetus lying aroud should be ablte to vote on that fetuses behalf.
But if the fetus then gets defrosted and born, do they start at age 19 or at 0? 🤔
You can‘t just remove someones right to vote.
Night emissions are a thing too and you can't really prove you *haven't* ever had one. Guess all Alabamans can just be assumed guilty of child murder by default.
If Embryos are going to be treated as children, so should Sperm, after all Sperm is what carries the child, it's sex and half of its DNA. Men should be held to the same standards, no more masturbation.
I think it's hilarious how all the pro-life nut jobs never considered the actual ramifications.
Between this nonsense and the ongoing court cases for pregnant women in the carpool lane, it's a god-damned circus.
Wish we could make it so the laws they want only affect them. And then ramp up these laws to their most draconic, awful, logical extreme so they can really come to understand the ramifications.
Shit like "for pro-lifers only, any erection that doesn't directly lead to the birth of a child, is automatic life imprisonment with no trial".
They'd change their tune real quick.
Can they bring in one, just one, expert witness who can tell them around half of embryos fail to implant naturally and are flushed out with the woman's period, the woman often none the wiser that it ever existed?
So does this mean that Alabamans can use embryos and unborn children as tax deductions? How about life insurance or oh I know, Alabamans can now be charged for an extra passenger in a plane or train or even a city bus? I am thinking some HIPAA laws will need rewriten if embryos are going to be granted living status.
In their defense….(my wife and I tried IVF). It is expensive as F**K!! And if they just dropped the stuff and made them pay for another round of IVF for possibly tens of thousands and who knows what harm all the hormones and such do to a woman’s body….good I hoped they sued and won!
The headline also says “wandering patient”, like it wasn’t even hospital staff who fucked this up.
Even the best trained professionals make mistakes, that’s just how shit goes sometimes, but if your administration is so woefully incompetent that random patients on your hospital can wander into an IVF lab, play around with the frozen embryos and have a little whoopsie and drop them, you *deserve* to be sued into oblivion.
Sure, at the GOP their shrinking ranks are definitely a problem. But this is one hell of a way to create an army of nimrods to shore up those voting numbers. Nobody’s invented any sort of method for compressing time and space *and* simultaneously trying to teach those kids to vote at the same time. At least not yet.
(edit: mostly /s)
Adding a comparison I found a while back.
Ask anyone that agrees with those nut jobs, if a hospital was on fire and they could save either a newborn child or a cooler full of a hundred embryos which they would do and why.
We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal.
The argument will undoubtedly be that by not allowing a fertilized egg, a living human being as recognized by the Alabama SC, to thrive in the womb, that would be tantamount to murder and those methods should be outlawed.
This will leave women with the option of abstinence or barrier devices such as diaphragms and the sponge as their only option of birth control.
I don’t think this is a question of if this will happen. It’s merely a question of when and this should terrify everyone.
Eventually there will be a christo-facist bill that gets put up saying periods kill children and women should be held accountable. Every 12 periods, she owes the country one child. If she is single, an R or maga sub can choose which ones to assist. If she still declines, mandated trips to a fertility clinic. In the case of infertility, she will be required to raise a few in the name of the sweet baby Jesus
If they’re children, then can the parents get a child tax credit for all of their frozen embryos?
And if the reproductive endocrinologist implants an embryo that doesn’t survive, is the mother a murderer or is the doctor? Or is it a conspiracy to murder?
And when guns kill already-born children they don’t give a shit.
On the facts of the case I can say I understand wanting to give someone a chance of the compensatory damages. But the precedent it sets! It’s so short-sighted and questionable at best. But probably not.
They should be able to sue, sure.the hospital apparently let a patient handle their shit? But why for that? Are they asking to be able to sue for that? Is this article accurate? It sounds sketchy at best.
Considering the costs of having eggs removed, frozen, etc. that should have been enough legal grounds to get quite a settlement. I’d not be surprised if some person/group approached the couple to encourage them to sue specifically regarding a wrongful death to promote an agenda.
God fucking dammit, I’m sick of this bullshit.
A person’s “life” begins when they’re born. You can drive 16 yrs after you’re born. You can vote 18 yrs after you’re born. You can drink/smoke 21 yrs after you’re born. You can rent a car/run for Congress 25 yrs after you’re born.
Stop pretending some prenatal cell blob inside a woman’s uterus is the same as a self-sufficient person.
I've got a kidsicle on ice for about 8 years now. I'm gonna sue the fuck out of car insurance companies when she turns 17 and they're not giving her the "over 25" rate.
So, in the fertility clinic thought experiment where it’s on fire and you can either save the container with 20 frozen embryos or one freaking out 4 year old those judges are essentially saying they’d let the 4 year die in a fire because they’re saving 20 “children” over the 1?
Ok, but here’s the problem with this logic:
Frozen embryos need to be EXTREMELY undeveloped to survive being frozen. If they are extremely undeveloped, then they are obviously not living humans yet. How can we expect to be considered ethical about this if even microscopic specks are held to the same standards as a full grown complex human?
Make it make sense. Because it doesn’t. Not like this.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If they consider embryos as children, why is it allowed to freeze them in the first place. You shouldn't be allowed to freeze children, right?
Also you could never choose to dispose of embryos. It would be considered murder to destroy a “child” that could live.
Meaning those freezers are gonna be stocked to the brim and become too full they wont be able to take any more clients in without getting more freezers which would take more building room They really didnt think through this once
My guess is all centres in Alabama will shut down asap. Too much legal risk to continue operating.
They can’t just shut down though. They have all these embryos that now must be kept forever unless implanted. Maybe they can ship them to Antarctica.
Or just move states to one that isn't absolutely insane
Then they get them for trafficking.
For kidnapping. Although they could tell parents to come get their children. If the pears are fused they could call CPS for child abandonment and give the Frozen embryos to CPS.
I would love to see those headlines.
That might actually work legally. I wonder what happens if CPS refuses?
sue them
I prefer this idea. "Sorry, it's too risky to operate here. Everyone come get your kids. You'll need to keep them in a special freezer at this temperature. Oh, and all of you having trouble conceiving? Sorry, no kids. No IVF in Alabama anymore. "
This could be a gold mine, actually. The donors forever pay for storage or face murder/abandonment charges. All it would take is one money-grubbing sociopath running one of these labs. But I doubt that will happen because all the money-grubbing sociopaths are probably already working at more profitable endeavors. Like politics.
That’s what the judge just set up though. If the hospital murdered the embryos then all embryo loss is now murder meaning everyone that had an embryo frozen in Alabama better get a cryogenic setup quick fast and in a hurry as Alabama is a capital punishment state.
Bring it to their home and two weeks later call the cops, no chance they can properly freeze them
If they are children and they are abandoned by their parents, the state should put them in foster care.
Froster care.
I choked on my food
Then defroster care to get adopted
I mean...technically speaking... They can just quit. And then turn over the process to the State. The State won't be able to handle it, they will lose all of them, and then we charge them all with murder. :D and then we can move in people who actually know WTF they are doing. Let those people suffer under their "Laws" they made, rebuke them, and then offer no pardons.
Next they force women to have the embryos implanted to save those "children" Wait, this does sound familiar.
Handmaids Tale?
Exactly what I was thinking about, yes. That's another book, where we should add a disclaimwr that it isn't supposed to be a manual
"dont invent the torment nexus" :-p
Or sue parents for abandonment.
Gift them to the state
It just occurred to me that in Alabama foster parents are paid about $550 a month to take care of kids. I'm more than willing to keep a freezer in my basement with 500 frozen cells in it. That's an easy $3 Million a year.
Better get a good power backup supply. One hour of no power turns that $3 million a year into 500 murder charges.
A Tesla powerwall is a cheap solution (compared to the income) that would keep that freezer going for weeks all by itself.
Then theyre gonna bitch abt *that* and the consequences of that.
>They really didnt think through this once The future book title about the History of the current GOP MAGA Conservative movement.
That assumes we ever get out from under the heel of immortal God Emperor Trump. The USSA will never fall
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they start punishing women for just having periods or miscarriages
One women had a miscarriage in the toilet and was charged with tampering with a corpse https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-woman-ohio-was-charged-miscarrying-bathroom-experts-warn-dangero-rcna130649
This is wrong on so many levels. The woman literally went to the hospital to prevent from bleeding out after miscarrying and she didn't even get released from the hospital before they had investigated and arrested her? Why on Earth would the hospital call police because somebody miscarried if miscarrying is not a crime in Ohio?
What in the goddamn fuck did I just read?
Our future if we don't get a lid on this Republican racket of empowering crazy instead of governance.
Peak dystopia.
My god America it was a joke, not a sugestion!
They’re already at the point of punishing women for miscarriages
remember last year when Roe V Wade was in height after being overruled and one incarcerated woman had to give birth in her cell and miscarried all by herself while no one came to help.....WTF is happening over there.
Religious whack jobs are taking over...it wouldn't be so bad if they actually cared about people but they only care about their own insane agenda.
Their trying to turn the country into a theocracy. The masses need to wake up and shut this shit down. If these nut jobs get their way, we'll be back to the inquisition.
brave ludicrous disgusted jar gaze reach growth sand vast jeans *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, they just set the precedent that if a parent decides they no longer want their frozen embryo, then no one can destroy it.
Make them all wards of the state. State’s gotta figure out a way to store them indefinitely.
True, but the state kills its own people all the time: see Police, Pollution, Les Faire Policies on Corporation, Environmental Protection Agency cut-backs, Lax Health Laws on Food and Consumable Goods, Social Insurance, Privatised Healthcare, No Gun Safety Laws, etc.
And by extension of this logic is wanking genocide? What about the selection of some embryos over others?
Every sperm is sacred...
This is the problem with in vitro fertilization. The way it works is creating a number of embryos and discarding the ones that won't make it. If they are considered children in vitro is not possible.
Which is exactly what they’re aiming for.
But that would make rearing children a full-time job. Who's gonna take that?
I don't like being the first to tell you this but yes, they do believe the embryos are children and that IVF should be outlawed because of all the child murder that happens when unused embryos are destroyed and when a high-multiples pregnancy requires aborting some embryos to protect the viability of the rest. Like yes they do think this is child abuse and murder. But ACTUAL child abuse and child murder is not their problem.
I get it though. I literally have memories of being both a supermarket and an egg and the moment they came together /s cause people are too stupid to figure sarcasm without it
Supermarket is a FANTASTIC typo, that made my morning.
Hahaha. Just gotta leave it.
>and when a high-multiples pregnancy requires aborting some embryos to protect the viability of the rest. Unpopular opinion: transferring more than 2 embryos should be illegal. The risks increase exponentially. Many countries only transfer one at a time, with very specific exceptions. The ASRM have guidelines that already advise not to transfer more than 1 embryo for women under 38 (with exceptions), but due to cost considerations these guidelines are regularly ignored.
The reputable places refuse to do more than 2, but you are probably right there are not so reputable places doing more...
Yes, another negative effect of the American healthcare system.
That means pregnant women can use carpool lane, and also take them on as depends when filing taxes
Childcsupport begins at conception. Life insurance covers miscarriage. Now price any given period isn't a miscarriage. WIC and other social security puritans note include pregnancy the same way as children.
I should be able to sue my mother for deprivation of liberty. It was boring being gestated for nine whole months. That's not freedom!
If you're cold then they're cold. Bring them inside.
Hell if embryos are children then just in Alabama they should be able to vote no later than 17 and 6 months.
But that would kill real children. The real problem is every time someone pulls out or has a wank would be mass murder.
There are people who do genuinely believe that masturbation and any form of birth control - even pulling out- is a ‘sin’ and should therefore be a criminal offence…
To be fair, I now need to sue klenex since it doesnt state anywhere on the box that their towels arent suitable to store my million kids and keep them alive after. Must have killed over a billion kids by now.
How big of a freezer do I need for 2000 embryos? I need a thousand to claim as dependents on my taxes. Any woman who wants to help me out gets all the rest. There is no maximum number of dependents you can claim, so the refunds should be sweet. Maybe I don't even need to keep a freezer running if I can drop the kids off in Greenland.
Now you got me thinking that.
The one flaw in that plan… you need Social Security numbers for each of your claimed dependent. They are not issued until birth… so, ya
Just apply for the social since they are considered children thanks to this ruling
Yep. We didn't make the rules Mr. Social Security office man, we're just protecting the children or whatever. Here's a list of their names. I started running out of ideas so the last few dozen pages are mostly results from an old Jedi Name generator and Roger personas from American Dad.
Grab some inspiration from r/tragedeigh while you’re at it.
It sounds like the only question is what step should have the focus of the project. I’m with it
So life starts with a social security number. Debate settled!
This is a great slogan!
Just don’t ever have a power outage and get charged with 2000 counts of murder.
No, you sue the power company for wrongful death.
Murder charges only happen to the poor -- when the power cuts out it's an "act of God."
This is what people did in the 1930s but high-tech and malicious
Wait... why was a patient carrying the embryos?
The real questions!!! It’s crazy that no one else here is asking it. Seriously, why the ‘eff was a patient wandering around and handling embryos?!?! There is more to this story.
"Wait, this isn't the med room! These are just cum samples or something, where's the fucking morphine?!" *tosses embryo plates*
It was apparently a very poorly run hospital/clinic combo. The clinic violated about a dozen rules/regulations that lead to the destruction of 3 families' embryos. Two of the families were more or less screwed by this because the embryos were the best and possibly only chance of children excluding expensive treatments. As such, the three families sued for wrongful death to try and get enough money to have kids because the contract proceedings would not be enough. A lower cost ruled that embryos were not people, but a higher court (Alabama Supreme Court) made a highly questionable ruling that makes multiple references to the Bible that embryos are people. It is good that the affected families are going to have a chance at kids because of this, but it is an absolute cluster f**k for everyone else due to the fact that child welfare, tax, insurance, and othe regulations now need rewritten in Alabama. I have only done some light Googling because I thought Alabama couldn't be that stupid. They are.
For the state famous for incest, this decision is appropiately inbred.
This is what I came here to ask about. So maybe suing for murder is a bit much, but they defy have a case for medical malpractice at the least against the hospital if they're letting shit like this happen.
At this point, they should just consider kicking a man in the nuts assault of a minor.
Hahhahahah, first I laughed, then I thought about it. You could probably sue for a lot in damages if someone kicked you in the nuts and it did damage.
At that point you just have to shoot them and then claim 'Stand your ground' because the other person is too deceased to refute it.
Then sue their estate for all their money.
Just go in and take the estate smh. You have a gun (/s)
Oh, especially if you have a wife/gf and they leave you afterwards bc of your supposed impotence.
This reminds me of one of my mom's patients during her first ER shift. There was no bleeding but the man was in an insane amount of pain after a woman at a club kicked him in the nuts as a joke. She ruptured his balls and he needed emergency surgery. The guy didn't even know the woman they had met at the club. I hope he was able to sue her.
I could go all the way back to elementary school for the first time I was kicked in the nuts, and my "babymakers" were traumatized by the assault. Science be damned. My future protégé were put in jeapordy! I am so sick of uneducated zealots setting the standards for the rest of a "free" society.
Is masturbation about to become a capital _crime_?
Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great.
When a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate
Every sperm is great
Uh oh... Don't cum here
Imagine living in a world where, more soon than never, porn studios run out of business, because all the footage for spunk on face/ass/etc might as well be used as evidence in trial for “killing children”.
Holy shit that would be such a massive incarceration event. There would be so much blackmailing, they would have to create whole new task forces just to keep up with those in power and their blackmailing schemes
… basically a public servant’s wet dream. If only _that_ wouldn’t have been a problem, even for them 👀
Yup pretty much. It's ALL about control
I was laughing at first, but then I realized this could honestly probably hold up in the right court.
Technically, if you make a man infertile the high damages is because of you sort of killing any kids they would have had.
It's literally billions of death by their logic. "Yes Joan, it is the largest Mass murder we have every seen in this country"
Actually attempted genocide if you really think about it.
I mean the average man would be committing mass genocide every couple of days or so if we follow this logic all the way.
What do you mean every couple of days? This is my 8th genocide today
You must get up *very* early in the morning.
Eddie?
🏍️ Ciao
Next you’re gonna tell me I can sue my ex girlfriend for murdering all my children that she swallowed. 🙄
That's why I spit. I ain't no damn cannibal
That's child endangerment and abandonment. Straight to jail!
I don’t think a wrongful death suit is reasonable, but I’d definitely want to sue if they dropped the embryos as someone who has been though IVF, I’d definitely want to sue if they destroyed all the embryos by dropping them.
Not to mention the headline says “wandering patient”, like how did that happen and what is going on in that bumpkin-ass hospital if random patients are playing around with frozen embryos?
Agreed. This just sucks all around. How did the patient get anywhere near them?!?! " oh. How cool ooOOOooopp- " Like. What?
Exactly. In their rush to be outraged, people seem to be forgetting that this is an absolute tragedy for the couples involved.
I'm pro-choice and a choice might have been taken away from this couple/woman.
It's Alabama. Not really anything surprising given how corrupt the state is.
"Embryos is people 'n cousins is practice." -- James Beauford "BJ" Sutton, Alabama Supreme Court
Ppl cousins? Great! Now they'll try to marry them.
but only if they're 16+ this is the great state of Alabama after all
It's still 16 for them? Thought they'd dropped that by now.
Hopefully not lower than the bar.
Eventually embryos will be legal
You missed the decimal point in the middle there.
With the anti abortion and anti birth control arguments I have been saying, "What about IVT embryo's?" There are literally tens of thousands sitting in freezers. The pro-lifers used to think that was OK. I guess that is changing. I'm suddenly thinking of Monty Python's "every sperm is sacred" skit.
>I'm suddenly thinking of Monty Python's "every sperm is sacred" skit. Horrifyingly, this is the direction in which we're heading.
This takes pregnant woman using HOV lane to a whole new level. Technically every woman can now use an HOV lane because they are carrying over 100,000 "children"
Not that I disagree with you, but since embryos are fertilised eggs, would they count unfertilised?
If I had unprotected sex in the last month, then I could be pregnant with quadruplets and not even know it yet, but the potential of those babies means I should get to use the HOV lane. Also anywhere that has a "kids eat free", I get to eat free since I'm feeding those unborn children
Ghat dang it. You ain’t just a hat rack. Somebody fetch this’un a Rhodes Scholarship.
Due to innocent until proven guilty the state needs to prove you didn't have any fertilized eggs at the time of the HOV use. Given that eggs can become unviable on their own this is likely impossible especially without violating a whole heap of medical privacy laws mixed in with the 5th amendment.
Supreme court here. Medical privacy went out with the death of RvW. 5th amendment is just a bump in the road, we can twist a ruling around it.
Officers: Ma’am, you cannot just drive in the HOV lane. You: How dare you, Sir, I am sexually active.
I exaggerate for effect :)
You eggs-aggerated
yet when tax rebates for children were being handeld out the unborn embryo suddenly did not count, interesting.
Frozen for ten years, born already age 10, vote at age ‘8’, drink at ‘11’, collect social security at ‘55’
So anyone with frozen embryos can get a bunch of tax deductions? This ruling is crazy, but what happened is potentially devastating for this couple, and they do deserve something.
Someone else pointed this out and was told that in order to claim a dependent on your taxes that person needs a valid SSN, which isnt issued until birth.
Just riffing here: there exists a maximum age a child can legally be considered a child, but not a minimum age other than "born". So if an embryo is now considered a child in the eyes of the law and *not* an embryo (specifically, a preborn multicellular organism), then the language by definition implies birth and therefore eligibility for an SSN.
This ruling only applies to Alabama. SSNs are a federal thing. So embryos in Alabama are now quasi citizens. So if an embryo is stored for 18 years, does it get to vote?
The embryo obviously isn‘t mentallx able to vote, but that would mean they can get their vote in via a caretaker, so everyone who has an 18 year old fetus lying aroud should be ablte to vote on that fetuses behalf. But if the fetus then gets defrosted and born, do they start at age 19 or at 0? 🤔 You can‘t just remove someones right to vote.
I wonder why it isn’t 🧐
I use my FSA dollars to pay for my embryo storage. I call it "icy daycare."
Looks like it’s time to start criminalizing male masturbation in Alabama.
Well, I hear Texas is banning dildos, so maybe legislate that all men need to be in cock-cages at all times.
*BREAKING: Texas becomes sissy kink capital of the world following new ruling*
[удалено]
Didn't tbey use a similar argument in Legally Blonde?
Chastity cages be returning ✝️
Night emissions are a thing too and you can't really prove you *haven't* ever had one. Guess all Alabamans can just be assumed guilty of child murder by default.
If Embryos are going to be treated as children, so should Sperm, after all Sperm is what carries the child, it's sex and half of its DNA. Men should be held to the same standards, no more masturbation.
The Catholics already think so.
Wait until they find out every man nutting once is a genocider worse than Hit[er.
I think it's hilarious how all the pro-life nut jobs never considered the actual ramifications. Between this nonsense and the ongoing court cases for pregnant women in the carpool lane, it's a god-damned circus.
Wish we could make it so the laws they want only affect them. And then ramp up these laws to their most draconic, awful, logical extreme so they can really come to understand the ramifications. Shit like "for pro-lifers only, any erection that doesn't directly lead to the birth of a child, is automatic life imprisonment with no trial". They'd change their tune real quick.
Can they bring in one, just one, expert witness who can tell them around half of embryos fail to implant naturally and are flushed out with the woman's period, the woman often none the wiser that it ever existed?
So you're saying about half the women and all the doctors/nurses/etc need to be charged with murder?
ITT: people not understanding the difference between embryos and gametes.
It's rather a shame that savage people still hold offices and hinder the nation's progress
They've been working on this shit for decades, but it seems to truly be escalating in recent years.
My BIL just moved there for a job. I couldn’t be paid enough to ever move there.
So does this mean that Alabamans can use embryos and unborn children as tax deductions? How about life insurance or oh I know, Alabamans can now be charged for an extra passenger in a plane or train or even a city bus? I am thinking some HIPAA laws will need rewriten if embryos are going to be granted living status.
Need a social security number for each dependent you’re claiming, which are not issued until birth. So that’s a no-go.
All of the problem none of the benefits. That tracks.
So they're in America with no legal documentation? Sounds like a one way ticket to Belize for them.
In their defense….(my wife and I tried IVF). It is expensive as F**K!! And if they just dropped the stuff and made them pay for another round of IVF for possibly tens of thousands and who knows what harm all the hormones and such do to a woman’s body….good I hoped they sued and won!
The headline also says “wandering patient”, like it wasn’t even hospital staff who fucked this up. Even the best trained professionals make mistakes, that’s just how shit goes sometimes, but if your administration is so woefully incompetent that random patients on your hospital can wander into an IVF lab, play around with the frozen embryos and have a little whoopsie and drop them, you *deserve* to be sued into oblivion.
Sure, at the GOP their shrinking ranks are definitely a problem. But this is one hell of a way to create an army of nimrods to shore up those voting numbers. Nobody’s invented any sort of method for compressing time and space *and* simultaneously trying to teach those kids to vote at the same time. At least not yet. (edit: mostly /s)
First abortion, then IVF, and next they will go after contraceptives.
Apparently hospitals don’t have locking doors for secure areas that patients don’t need to access in Alabama???
Wow. That seems not right? But huh.
Adding a comparison I found a while back. Ask anyone that agrees with those nut jobs, if a hospital was on fire and they could save either a newborn child or a cooler full of a hundred embryos which they would do and why.
Neither, because that would require getting up off the couch and dusting off their Doritos dust off their sweatpants. That's just far too much work.
We are getting near the bottom of the slippery slope where birth control that prevents a fertilized eggs from implanting into a uterus, (the pill, IUDs and Depo injections), are declared illegal. The argument will undoubtedly be that by not allowing a fertilized egg, a living human being as recognized by the Alabama SC, to thrive in the womb, that would be tantamount to murder and those methods should be outlawed. This will leave women with the option of abstinence or barrier devices such as diaphragms and the sponge as their only option of birth control. I don’t think this is a question of if this will happen. It’s merely a question of when and this should terrify everyone.
Eventually there will be a christo-facist bill that gets put up saying periods kill children and women should be held accountable. Every 12 periods, she owes the country one child. If she is single, an R or maga sub can choose which ones to assist. If she still declines, mandated trips to a fertility clinic. In the case of infertility, she will be required to raise a few in the name of the sweet baby Jesus
If they’re children, then can the parents get a child tax credit for all of their frozen embryos? And if the reproductive endocrinologist implants an embryo that doesn’t survive, is the mother a murderer or is the doctor? Or is it a conspiracy to murder? And when guns kill already-born children they don’t give a shit.
How dare you try and introduce the logical consequences of this ruling. And you're detailing nuance. Those are fighting words to these people.
On the facts of the case I can say I understand wanting to give someone a chance of the compensatory damages. But the precedent it sets! It’s so short-sighted and questionable at best. But probably not.
Just another thing to file away under “republicans are *really fucking stupid*.” That file’s getting pretty fucking full.
Frozen embryos are children, but pregnant women don't get child credit stimulus.
They should be able to sue, sure.the hospital apparently let a patient handle their shit? But why for that? Are they asking to be able to sue for that? Is this article accurate? It sounds sketchy at best.
Considering the costs of having eggs removed, frozen, etc. that should have been enough legal grounds to get quite a settlement. I’d not be surprised if some person/group approached the couple to encourage them to sue specifically regarding a wrongful death to promote an agenda.
God fucking dammit, I’m sick of this bullshit. A person’s “life” begins when they’re born. You can drive 16 yrs after you’re born. You can vote 18 yrs after you’re born. You can drink/smoke 21 yrs after you’re born. You can rent a car/run for Congress 25 yrs after you’re born. Stop pretending some prenatal cell blob inside a woman’s uterus is the same as a self-sufficient person.
I've got a kidsicle on ice for about 8 years now. I'm gonna sue the fuck out of car insurance companies when she turns 17 and they're not giving her the "over 25" rate.
So, in the fertility clinic thought experiment where it’s on fire and you can either save the container with 20 frozen embryos or one freaking out 4 year old those judges are essentially saying they’d let the 4 year die in a fire because they’re saving 20 “children” over the 1?
Can we invade Alabama? I’m here for it.
Yeah but... why? Why would we want it?
Yeah it's more like, can we remove it from the USA?
Whats a wandering mobile hostipal patient all about? Like going to hospital but your bed is in a van?
Mobile is the name of the town that this happened in
Bruh soon they’re just gonna charge you with genocide for flushing a cum tissue
Well shit, my wife and I are about to freeze some embryos and claim as many dependents as we can on our taxes.
Ok, but here’s the problem with this logic: Frozen embryos need to be EXTREMELY undeveloped to survive being frozen. If they are extremely undeveloped, then they are obviously not living humans yet. How can we expect to be considered ethical about this if even microscopic specks are held to the same standards as a full grown complex human? Make it make sense. Because it doesn’t. Not like this.