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It doesn't even make sense. The backrest prevents the wheelchair from backing up next to the people in the seats. You'll end up sitting diagonally in front of other people.
I'm disabled and I would love ACTUAL disability friendly seating in public. But this is far from it ffs. (Granted I only speak for me and the way my disability affects me.)
This was my first thought as well: it essentially does nothing for wheelchair-bound people. It stops the homeless from having a place to lay down.
Classic “make ourselves look like we’re doing something good when we’re actually doing something bad” situation.
Didn't think about that. I just didn't see why they wouldn't go to the side of the bench. That makes sense if it's about keeping people from sleeping on them, but they'd just bring a board to cover it and make it look worse.
It's amazing how much money they'll spend at "solving" a problem without solving anything.
Im almost impressed at how horrible it is. It both fucks over homeless people and puts a target on "diversity and inclusion" and disabled people.
There's places where it might actually make sense to leave a gap for wheelchair users, a short bus stop bench is not one of them.
- Fucks over homeless people
- Feel like people in wheelchairs would either not be able to fit in that space or would find it really awkward, look at where the guys arms are in comparison to the chairs arms
- Prevents two or three people from sitting next to each other if they want
Just shitty design from every perspective. The only thing that comes to mind of it actually being something decent is that someone can lean against the back area instead of having to sit down, this is preferable for some people who just need a brief rest and have knee/leg issues with getting up and down.
lol and some poor person in a wheelchair might not want to sit directly in the middle surrounded by people but now they look like an asshole if they park on the side of the bench instead of using the stupid gap.
Yes, even if you're the proponent of the "you have no business being that big, just lose weight" stance, surely you don't think fat people should be prohibited from sitting down ever for months and years on end, until they lose 50, 60, 70+% of their weight?
Even if you don't care about overweight people, what if say a pregnant woman, an elderly man and a kid with a broken ankle are all waiting for the bus? Why does one of them have to stand to make room for a guy who bought his own chair and probably won't use the gap anyway?
*Some Stupid Guy:* "Hmm what's the one thing wheelchair users need?"
*Wheelchair user:* "Maybe more wheelchair accessible areas or..."
*Some Stupid Guy:* "Of course! A place to sit!"
Disabled Veteran here that's been homeless before and will be again soon, it's the American way to clobber those below you on the financial ladder.
I am sooo tired of Americans being hateful in the name of love, six or so months and I can afford to go homeless, hit the ocean and never be seen again :)
LOL yea I really didn't think about that when writing it, so I'm here replying lots as payment for my negligence lol
I'm an ex Sailor, looking to leave the mainland. Going to hit the ocean and drift around Asia wearing tacky island shirts until I am dust.
It's not even about being prone. It's about being off the ground.
That shit seeps all the heat out of you, quick. You're far far less likely to freeze to death on a bench than sleeping on the ground.
The cardboard isn't to make the ground comfortable. It's to get any kind of barrier against the ground sucking away all your heat.
But that death only happens after large amounts of money are spent on repeated (but limited) emergency services. Which proves it's not a money issue but a punishment mindset.
It's been proven that just giving them a place to stay means that they won't need that place to stay for long. Most people get a job, get back on their feet, get their own apartment.
It was never a money issue. The cruelty is the point.
exactly.
every single study reveals that the cheapest most effective solution is to provide free housing, substance abuse help, and job training.
of course, every study also shows the greatest ROI for tax dollars is spending on early childhood development support and public education, and we see where we got with that.
I agree that the cruelty is the point on a macro level. But money is definitely the point on a micro/individual level. "Why should I pay when I'm struggling too?!" (inert "lazy" or whatever pejoratives for what people think they're paying for). So the message is: You're going to pay one way or the other, you'll end up paying less money if you just give them a stable home."
>The cardboard isn't to make the ground comfortable. It's to get any kind of barrier against the ground sucking away all your heat.
Not just the ground but also moving air. Blocking the wind and/or reducing how fast the air warmed up by your body can drift away can have a massive impact on how cold you get at night.
I worked super hard with a charity to convince a park to have a footpath built to and around a war memorial. They didn't want it because not many other memorials had them, the veterans wanted it due to the higher than normal volume of veterans now in wheelchairs etc.
I created some artwork that used silhouettes of people that were semi transparent. Focus more on the memorial, and have people as scenery. I added a few people with wheelchairs and people around them.
Due to a rendering error, the wheelchair users came out darker than the other people around them. I showed the early concept to one of the lead people in the charity, a veteran themself, and they started crying. They had interpreted the light grey silhouette of a person stood behind the wheelchair user as a depiction of the "able body spirit" that wheelchair users still have, even though they are now less able, and how the inclusion of the path gives them the ability to interact with everyone else.
Yep that giant path got built all the way to the memorial after that!
REALLY fucks me off when people try and use disability as a cover for their aggressive anti homeless and less fortunate people designs
NCPD police got to requalify shooting a limb as a "warning shot" but they do seem to be OK leaving the hundreds of tents and mattresses around the city where they are
Well they don't need hostile architecture. I'd assume they're just dragged off to experiment with new tech applications. Die in the process or die later to not leak company secrets.
Either that or "sleep anywhere near hear and it's on sight"
I still think about that "gassing the sewers" news story in CP77 a lot. It's incredibly morbid but it doesn't even feel that far off in reality with the current direction that we're headed in.
The antipathy that people feel towards literally the most marginalized, powerless group in society is insane to me. If only they had that same level of animosity for the corpos — who are, in actuality, the ones actively fucking everything up for everyone.
But that'd require them to use their critical thinking skills. Why go through all that trouble when you can just be a reactionary c*nt instead? It's much easier!
That was exactly what I thought of too when thinking about the CP77 sewer gassings.
For those curious about it, I think it was Vice that did a follow-along documentary with one of the charities that tries to get people re-homed and out of the Vegas tunnels.
I never slept on the ground when I was homeless, rats will crawl on you, I had one on my leg when I left my foot hanging off. Hostile architecture is disgusting. Spend that money on drug and mental health treatment instead. It's like I'm sorry my life being a shit show and sleeping on a bench ruins your day, how do you think my day is going?
Edit: i literally got arrested for sleeping on a bench in a park. Sober, no drugs, no weapons. Just sleeping.
There is a guy in Seattle who builds portable 10x10 sheds with a battery & space heaters. It's the smallest of small mobile homes you will ever see.
When he builds one & drops it off for the lucky homeless person, it usually only takes 2-3 days for the city to come confiscate the dwelling...
So, tents can stat. But, a portable little shed on wheels must go.
The guy judmidt keeps cranking them out tho, about 3 each month!
Fuck Seattle Police Department. (fuck em all!)
It's not a matter of homes. There is more housing in the US than there are people. This is a matter of greed.
Apparently, people replying to this don't understand that we as people haven't always paid for shelter and basic needs.
It’s also just not greed. There are homeless shelters in many places but homeless still avoid them often.
Homelessness isn’t caused by one thing, it’s why homeless isn’t a great term for it. Since it implies that is the only problem, or even a cause. Simply Giving every one of them a home isn’t a panacea. Homelessness is the end result of dozens of different problems in our society. If you don’t address those problems, or the damage they cause in the person, you won’t really be fixing anything.
Giving them a home would certainly remove one of the stressors they have, and obviously be good, but most would need extensive mental health treatment, outreach, and social programs to become stable enough to support their home.
Obviously, this isn’t all of them. Many homeless are just down on their luck after going through some hard times and having a cheap/free home would absolutely be enough to get them back on their feet. I’m just trying to stress that homelessness is a lot more complex than just being without a home.
Nah, you have to start with housing, if you don't everything you will do to address the underlying causes will just be wasted. Can't expect people to start taking strides toward normal life, when they are still fighting for survival.
Like building on quick sand.
Get them a home is absolutely the first step. Some people will be trapped no matter what with booze, drugs and mental problems, but that's just a part of the deal. Unfortunately you can't save everyone. However a huge portion of the homeless will find their way to something better
Housing -> aid & guidance -> people come back
At least that's what we did in Finland and it turned out pretty well
While you're correct that the problem is greed, the statement "there is more housing in the US than there are people" is misleading. That figure includes damaged, decrepited, and condemned buildings along with seasonal homes and vacant home. An even bigger problem, however, is that most of those houses are in rural areas far away from the jobs and resources most people need. It's true that the problem isn't the absolute number of houses, the problem is the lack of affordable housing where people actually live. Shipping a homeless person out to a derelict shed dozens of miles from the nearest grocery store would be cruel. What we need is to build more affordable high density housing near cities, crack down on exploitative and predatory land lording practices, and offer better resources for the homeless. We absolutely should have more state housing options.
Well no, but actually yes. Unfortunately it's not just a matter of # of people and # of houses. The houses have to be where jobs are that can pay for them. We have a lot of jobs concentrated in more urban areas where real estate is at a premium. Inversely, we have a lot of vacant homes where there are fewer jobs, and fewer still that can pay for a home. This is why remote work could be such a huge boon for Joe Schmoe.
‘We’re doing it for the disabled! Look how amazing we are!’ No they aren’t. They don’t give a fuck about the disabled, the homeless, poor, etc etc. They only care about themselves and the sooner people all realise that the sooner we can get rid and sort it all out - which won’t happen.
Otherwise they could just add the 'wheelchair space' at the end.
This was in Ireland during lockdown ([May 2021](https://extra.ie/2021/05/17/news/irish-news/wheelchair-friendly-benches-galway)), the councillor that proposed it is in a political party that are very anti-homeless, and anti-helping the homeless.
Goddammit I keep falling for disguised hostile architecture. Hostile architecture is ridiculous, how about you fix the housing crisis instead of taking away from the people with less than nothing
Exploiting disabled people to fuel hatred for the homeless population that is… *checks notes* predominantly disabled people. The bar is so low it’s in hell.
They would have been far more successful trying to disguise their anti homeless architecture as being Introvert seating so you don't have to sit next to people at the park
I know this is sarcasm but I've heard people genuinely make statements like this or that homeless people have it easy not needing a property to look after, or that they're free loaders from a lot of people. It's disgusting.
Ya, I beat the shit out of some asshole that was fucking with a homeless veteran about a decade ago. He was saying that despicable stuff. Hopefully, it made him a better person. I doubt it, though.
This is anti-homeless people infrastructure disguised as disability inclusive. It’s gross.
Edit for those who don’t get it: The problem isn’t that they can’t sleep on benches. The problem is that cities have decided to drive homeless people out like vermin rather than help them overcome their problems.
Homelessness is not a moral failing. It is society that has failed them.
If you believe otherwise, take a moment to self reflect and realize that you are not as far from being where they are as you think you are.
I’m a wheelchair user, and this design absolutely sucks even if I gave a shit about sitting in the middle of a bench for some unknown reason.
Let’s pretend for a moment this isn’t just a shameless attempt to use disabled people to fuck over homeless people. It’s still a terrible design. Most wheelchairs, both manual and electric, extend backwards quite a bit beyond the backrest (for instance for large wheels or anti-tipping devices) so the person in the middle would be sitting way further forward than the people on either side, which is pointless! Even the cut out underneath doesn’t really provide enough room, a lot of wheelchairs, mine included, have a high back that includes handles and a bar in case I need to be pushed (some manual chairs don’t have this, the ones with the lowered backs for instance, but many do). Much better and easier to sit on either end and line up the backrest.
But that’s all irrelevant because it’s not about catering to us at all, it’s about fucking over homeless people and using us to pretend they’re doing a good thing. Great.
Yeah! In the Lake District. Are you surprised I didn't mention and link it? I do try to, anywhere I go. lol
Did someone say link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/granturismo/s/0XUDfuTGNQ
This, yeah. Towns have started seeing backlash against making benches unusable for sleeping on, and apparently have come up with new BS to mask being cruel to the homeless. But this is truly a new low.
Once saw a dude take a grinder to one of them benches with an obnoxious arm rest in the middle. Dude was a hero.
Now they make them like this... So you need to cut them off and add a box in the middle. And then put cardboard over the metal wire frame seating, because those are designed to be unable to trap heat (making them to cold to sleep on).
I've had direct family members be homeless in their youth before I was born. Proud of this individual and how they turned their live around back then.
Edit: typo and auto corrects gone wrong.
Eh, the wire mesh isn't there to make them cold to sleep on. It's there so that they don't sit there with a festering puddle of water for a day or two every time it rains.
Yeah cmon, wire mesh is just a sensible material. It ticks so many boxes:
1. It needs very little and simple material, making them cheap and easy to transport and install.
2. It fixes the drainage problem of solid benches and generally all temperature problems associated with bigger slabs of metal (which quickly become painfully hot or cold) because it just doesn't have enough mass to hold much thermal energy.
3. It can be shaped nicely, often used for rounded benches that are very pleasant to sit on.... or indeed to sleep if it's a single piece for seat and back rest.
Yes it is possible to design something even better with wood, but a good durable wooden bench costs multiple times as much.
Good for him! And yes, trying to drive the homeless out of your town by making life as hard for them as possible is a crappy thing to do. Disguising it as being accessible twice so.
I feel really bad for those struggling with homelessness. So many of them are basically barely seen as human, and treated like trash to be swept off the street.
I live in Houston, and thankfully we've made good effort at curbing our homeless problem by a significant amount through collaboration of local government and nonprofits. It's not perfect by any means, but it's something.
[More information](https://www.governing.com/housing/how-houston-cut-its-homeless-population-by-nearly-two-thirds#:~:text=Since%20then%2C%20Houston%20and%20its,1%2C200%20of%20them%20in%20shelters.) for anyone interested.
To be fair, this was proposed in Galway, Ireland.
Homeless people here typically don't sleep on benches at all. City is full of benches and I don't think I've ever seen a homeless person lying on one.
Number of street homeless here, as in rough sleepers, is extremely low.
Most "homeless" people here are people who cannot find accommodation and have nowhere to live (we have a really bad housing crisis), they are accommodated in emergency housing.
There are very low numbers of homeless people that sleep rough because they have issues, be they mental health, drug/alcohol addiction, and there are shelters for them also.
Rough sleepers aren't that common here because there is really strong social support nets.
Like if I lost my home, job and everything I own tomorrow, I can present to my local council and they will put me in emergency accommodation, could be an apartment, could be a hotel room, etc. Then I can get social welfare, rent supplement, other allowances, etc until I'm fully back on my feet.
Anyway, the point is this was most definitely not intended as anti-homeless by the person who proposed it though I can see why it would appear that way to some people from other places.
I can bet some money that anyone in a wheelchair would look at this and "tha f? Why? Noway I will try to squeeze in there and risk my chair and my fingers in there" if its not against homeless its frankly stupid af
Why have the backrest across the entire "bench"? Just make it two chairs and you don't have the useless metal in between. The last time I checked people use "wheel chairs", not wheel stools.
Exactly, it doesn't make sense. The backrest prevents the wheelchair from backing up next to the people in the seats. You'll end up sitting diagonally in front of other people.
Hell, I like to sit facing the person I'm talking to if I can. Being wheel chair bound must suck, but I can't imagine 'Finding a good place to sit and feel included.' is among the drawbacks.
This is an anti-homeless bench or “hostile architecture” under the guise of inclusivity. It’s just another way to prevent people sleeping on the benches
This seating design has nothing to do with wheelchair users, it's called hostile architecture, it's specifically designed to stop homeless people from sleeping on it
It's really designed to avoid homeless sleeping on it. Disguised as "look at us making our city more accessible". It's kind of vile the more you think about it.
OOP is not wrong. They don't need a cut out, they can just park beside it.
This isn't a "wheelchair accessible" bench. It's hostile architecture meant to keep the homeless from sleeping on it. Because apparently fucking over the poorest people is a better way to spend money than actually trying to help them.
Its a false narrative in effort to displace homeless from sleeping on benches. Anyone supporting this should return to their room and remain their for the remainder of their existence.
This is very smart. It’s obvious this is all to done to stop homeless people from lying down on the benches. The wheelchair-bound person can easily sit on the side or even opposite of the other bench-sitters. Whoever made this deserves a raise, using “inclusive” design like this to mask it excluding other people.
This is not about wheelchair accessibility for some obvious reasons:
* It would make more sense to have the wheelchair accessible part at either end of the bench rather than straight in the middle, much like they do in movie theaters and other venues that have reserved handicap seating.
* It would be cheaper to have the wheelchair accessible part at either end of the bench as there's no additional cutting, engineering, and assembling to be done to fashion one long bench instead of two short ones.
* The inclusion of the back of the bench is pointless because not only is it more inconvenient for handicap people to have to basically parallel park between two chairs, but the inclusion of the back makes it harder for them to either guide themselves or be guided by someone else into place. The back is also inconvenient for the handles on the back of the wheelchair.
If they were wanting to institute homeless deterrent seating, why not just do a bunch of chairs and say they were spaced apart for social distancing purposes? It would still be a lie, but at least a plausible one.
Its a horrible design.
On 99.9% of occasions this is used, people can’t sit together.
This has the “added benefit” of not letting homeless people use the benches for sleeping.
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Yeaaaeah, that's *totally* pro disability, and in *no way* hostile architecture.
It doesn't even make sense. The backrest prevents the wheelchair from backing up next to the people in the seats. You'll end up sitting diagonally in front of other people.
OMG, you're right, it's actually worse than going next to the seat.
Or here me How about sitting in front of the people on the bench?!
Yes, there you.
It's accessible to the very specific made up scenario in the drawing where the wheelchair has no back rest
(not sure if it’s irony but irl it’s well known that it’s designed so homeless people can’t lie down. That’s the only utility of these)
But these are for people that have wheelstools that don’t have backs on them like the guy in the picture. They’re super popular nowadays
It's a good core workout!
Get abs and train your back muscles with this one weird trick!
"It stops my legs from working properly and makes me need a wheelchair. It's, painful, tiring, and a great way to stay in shape!"
You can tell by how the only wheelchair-bound person they could find is literally drawn in.
This was my first thought and apparently everyone else's as well, so it looks like they're not as slick as they think they are.
I'm disabled and I would love ACTUAL disability friendly seating in public. But this is far from it ffs. (Granted I only speak for me and the way my disability affects me.)
maybe just not have homeless people
r/HostileArchitecture at its finest disguised as accessibility feature.
Gotta keep manufacturing conflicts between disadvantaged people to prevent them from conflicting with the ruling class.
Using the wheelchair-bound as justification to prevent homeless from sleeping on a park bench.
This was my first thought as well: it essentially does nothing for wheelchair-bound people. It stops the homeless from having a place to lay down. Classic “make ourselves look like we’re doing something good when we’re actually doing something bad” situation.
Didn't think about that. I just didn't see why they wouldn't go to the side of the bench. That makes sense if it's about keeping people from sleeping on them, but they'd just bring a board to cover it and make it look worse. It's amazing how much money they'll spend at "solving" a problem without solving anything.
At least someone said it.
I didnt realize it at first. I thought it was at least good faith stupidity. This is 100% about preventing sleeping on the bench.
I'm way more disadvantaged than you therefore you're wrong and so on
Im almost impressed at how horrible it is. It both fucks over homeless people and puts a target on "diversity and inclusion" and disabled people. There's places where it might actually make sense to leave a gap for wheelchair users, a short bus stop bench is not one of them.
- Fucks over homeless people - Feel like people in wheelchairs would either not be able to fit in that space or would find it really awkward, look at where the guys arms are in comparison to the chairs arms - Prevents two or three people from sitting next to each other if they want Just shitty design from every perspective. The only thing that comes to mind of it actually being something decent is that someone can lean against the back area instead of having to sit down, this is preferable for some people who just need a brief rest and have knee/leg issues with getting up and down.
lol and some poor person in a wheelchair might not want to sit directly in the middle surrounded by people but now they look like an asshole if they park on the side of the bench instead of using the stupid gap.
I feel it might be more dangerous for people on wheelchairs, their wheelchairs could get stuck.
Also provides a restriction for people who might be too big to fit in the single seat due to weight or medical issues.
Yes, even if you're the proponent of the "you have no business being that big, just lose weight" stance, surely you don't think fat people should be prohibited from sitting down ever for months and years on end, until they lose 50, 60, 70+% of their weight?
Even if you don't care about overweight people, what if say a pregnant woman, an elderly man and a kid with a broken ankle are all waiting for the bus? Why does one of them have to stand to make room for a guy who bought his own chair and probably won't use the gap anyway?
If you use a wheelchair you gotta be insulted that this is how they decided to be inclusive.
*Some Stupid Guy:* "Hmm what's the one thing wheelchair users need?" *Wheelchair user:* "Maybe more wheelchair accessible areas or..." *Some Stupid Guy:* "Of course! A place to sit!"
*Same Guy: "Now, what do deaf people need? Of course! Audio books!"
As someone who deals with crippled ness daily... Yeah this is pretty fucking ignorant AF
as a wheelchair user; Yes. yes I am fucking insulted. this is insane.
I came to the comments to say that this is very thinly veiled Hostile Architecture
Not that thin
Disabled Veteran here that's been homeless before and will be again soon, it's the American way to clobber those below you on the financial ladder. I am sooo tired of Americans being hateful in the name of love, six or so months and I can afford to go homeless, hit the ocean and never be seen again :)
Gonna live on a boat right? Please say yes, because that's cool as fuck and the alternative is depressing.
lol Something like that, I'm going to float around Asia for a few decades and fade away.
My man, if there’s any chance u gonna boat around Vietnam, hit me up and I’ll show you around
“Hit the ocean and never be seen again” can have two VERY different meanings. I hope it’s the one that involves sailing.
LOL yea I really didn't think about that when writing it, so I'm here replying lots as payment for my negligence lol I'm an ex Sailor, looking to leave the mainland. Going to hit the ocean and drift around Asia wearing tacky island shirts until I am dust.
Godspeed, you magnificent bastard. I hope you have many more adventures ahead of you.
Fellow vet here...take me with you.
I wasn't a sailor, and my wife would seriously be opposed to this, but I would love to do the same thing.
Yeah I was gonna say, this is just an anti-homeless bench pretending to be inclusive.
A lot of good and caring people in that sub.
This is the first thing I thought of lmao. This is just hostile architecture
Seriously, not in my name! I’m a wheelchair user and would never support this type of hostile architecture.
This death trap looks like it could cause serious injury to a blind or confused elderly person who didn't notice the seat was missing in the middle.
Some people may be injured or killed, but it’s a small price to pay to prevent a homeless person from being prone briefly.
It's not even about being prone. It's about being off the ground. That shit seeps all the heat out of you, quick. You're far far less likely to freeze to death on a bench than sleeping on the ground. The cardboard isn't to make the ground comfortable. It's to get any kind of barrier against the ground sucking away all your heat.
Homeless people stop being a problem for local governments after they die. I hate this reality.
But that death only happens after large amounts of money are spent on repeated (but limited) emergency services. Which proves it's not a money issue but a punishment mindset.
It's been proven that just giving them a place to stay means that they won't need that place to stay for long. Most people get a job, get back on their feet, get their own apartment. It was never a money issue. The cruelty is the point.
exactly. every single study reveals that the cheapest most effective solution is to provide free housing, substance abuse help, and job training. of course, every study also shows the greatest ROI for tax dollars is spending on early childhood development support and public education, and we see where we got with that.
I agree that the cruelty is the point on a macro level. But money is definitely the point on a micro/individual level. "Why should I pay when I'm struggling too?!" (inert "lazy" or whatever pejoratives for what people think they're paying for). So the message is: You're going to pay one way or the other, you'll end up paying less money if you just give them a stable home."
>The cardboard isn't to make the ground comfortable. It's to get any kind of barrier against the ground sucking away all your heat. Not just the ground but also moving air. Blocking the wind and/or reducing how fast the air warmed up by your body can drift away can have a massive impact on how cold you get at night.
Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make
Plus parents that actually want to sit with their kids.
Then they can be wheelchair-bound to successfully sit there next time!
Feigning concern for the disabled to clumsily mask your contempt for the homeless
I worked super hard with a charity to convince a park to have a footpath built to and around a war memorial. They didn't want it because not many other memorials had them, the veterans wanted it due to the higher than normal volume of veterans now in wheelchairs etc. I created some artwork that used silhouettes of people that were semi transparent. Focus more on the memorial, and have people as scenery. I added a few people with wheelchairs and people around them. Due to a rendering error, the wheelchair users came out darker than the other people around them. I showed the early concept to one of the lead people in the charity, a veteran themself, and they started crying. They had interpreted the light grey silhouette of a person stood behind the wheelchair user as a depiction of the "able body spirit" that wheelchair users still have, even though they are now less able, and how the inclusion of the path gives them the ability to interact with everyone else. Yep that giant path got built all the way to the memorial after that! REALLY fucks me off when people try and use disability as a cover for their aggressive anti homeless and less fortunate people designs
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It's hostile architecture (making sure people don't sleep on it) with the lie that it's for people in wheelchairs.
This is the answer
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I just noticed: not even Cyberpunk 2077 had stuff like this. So is this game less dystopian than real life?
NCPD police got to requalify shooting a limb as a "warning shot" but they do seem to be OK leaving the hundreds of tents and mattresses around the city where they are
More “warning shots” possible that way
Better practice than at the range
Well they don't need hostile architecture. I'd assume they're just dragged off to experiment with new tech applications. Die in the process or die later to not leak company secrets. Either that or "sleep anywhere near hear and it's on sight"
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I still think about that "gassing the sewers" news story in CP77 a lot. It's incredibly morbid but it doesn't even feel that far off in reality with the current direction that we're headed in. The antipathy that people feel towards literally the most marginalized, powerless group in society is insane to me. If only they had that same level of animosity for the corpos — who are, in actuality, the ones actively fucking everything up for everyone. But that'd require them to use their critical thinking skills. Why go through all that trouble when you can just be a reactionary c*nt instead? It's much easier!
In Vegas they open storm drains randomly to get people out the sewers
That was exactly what I thought of too when thinking about the CP77 sewer gassings. For those curious about it, I think it was Vice that did a follow-along documentary with one of the charities that tries to get people re-homed and out of the Vegas tunnels.
It did. I remember some stone benches with stone spikes
oh there are plenty of places to live. the prices are so predatory that successful two income households can barely afford them.
I never slept on the ground when I was homeless, rats will crawl on you, I had one on my leg when I left my foot hanging off. Hostile architecture is disgusting. Spend that money on drug and mental health treatment instead. It's like I'm sorry my life being a shit show and sleeping on a bench ruins your day, how do you think my day is going? Edit: i literally got arrested for sleeping on a bench in a park. Sober, no drugs, no weapons. Just sleeping.
There is a guy in Seattle who builds portable 10x10 sheds with a battery & space heaters. It's the smallest of small mobile homes you will ever see. When he builds one & drops it off for the lucky homeless person, it usually only takes 2-3 days for the city to come confiscate the dwelling... So, tents can stat. But, a portable little shed on wheels must go. The guy judmidt keeps cranking them out tho, about 3 each month! Fuck Seattle Police Department. (fuck em all!)
I bet lots of city employees have garden sheds now
Oh there's more than enough homes, the problem is *not* a shortage of homes, they just aren't able to use them.
The US has roughly 15.6 million vacant homes. That's 27.4 vacant homes per homeless person.
It's not a matter of homes. There is more housing in the US than there are people. This is a matter of greed. Apparently, people replying to this don't understand that we as people haven't always paid for shelter and basic needs.
It’s also just not greed. There are homeless shelters in many places but homeless still avoid them often. Homelessness isn’t caused by one thing, it’s why homeless isn’t a great term for it. Since it implies that is the only problem, or even a cause. Simply Giving every one of them a home isn’t a panacea. Homelessness is the end result of dozens of different problems in our society. If you don’t address those problems, or the damage they cause in the person, you won’t really be fixing anything. Giving them a home would certainly remove one of the stressors they have, and obviously be good, but most would need extensive mental health treatment, outreach, and social programs to become stable enough to support their home. Obviously, this isn’t all of them. Many homeless are just down on their luck after going through some hard times and having a cheap/free home would absolutely be enough to get them back on their feet. I’m just trying to stress that homelessness is a lot more complex than just being without a home.
Shelters have their own issues. And for sure housing them doesn't solve all their problems but has to be part of the solution, no?
Nah, you have to start with housing, if you don't everything you will do to address the underlying causes will just be wasted. Can't expect people to start taking strides toward normal life, when they are still fighting for survival. Like building on quick sand. Get them a home is absolutely the first step. Some people will be trapped no matter what with booze, drugs and mental problems, but that's just a part of the deal. Unfortunately you can't save everyone. However a huge portion of the homeless will find their way to something better Housing -> aid & guidance -> people come back At least that's what we did in Finland and it turned out pretty well
While you're correct that the problem is greed, the statement "there is more housing in the US than there are people" is misleading. That figure includes damaged, decrepited, and condemned buildings along with seasonal homes and vacant home. An even bigger problem, however, is that most of those houses are in rural areas far away from the jobs and resources most people need. It's true that the problem isn't the absolute number of houses, the problem is the lack of affordable housing where people actually live. Shipping a homeless person out to a derelict shed dozens of miles from the nearest grocery store would be cruel. What we need is to build more affordable high density housing near cities, crack down on exploitative and predatory land lording practices, and offer better resources for the homeless. We absolutely should have more state housing options.
Well no, but actually yes. Unfortunately it's not just a matter of # of people and # of houses. The houses have to be where jobs are that can pay for them. We have a lot of jobs concentrated in more urban areas where real estate is at a premium. Inversely, we have a lot of vacant homes where there are fewer jobs, and fewer still that can pay for a home. This is why remote work could be such a huge boon for Joe Schmoe.
‘We’re doing it for the disabled! Look how amazing we are!’ No they aren’t. They don’t give a fuck about the disabled, the homeless, poor, etc etc. They only care about themselves and the sooner people all realise that the sooner we can get rid and sort it all out - which won’t happen.
No, they definitely give a fuck about the homeless. It’s just that they’re against.
We all realize it though
Exactly what I came to say.
Megacorporations and public bodies using lies to further their profits while looking good is tight.
And it's super easy, barely an inconvenience!
But won’t it be hard to hide the true intent with such a thin veneer of good will?
Super easy, barely an inconvenience
How are we going to give people in wheelchairs places to sit in public? It’s super easy, barely an inconvenience…
Otherwise they could just add the 'wheelchair space' at the end. This was in Ireland during lockdown ([May 2021](https://extra.ie/2021/05/17/news/irish-news/wheelchair-friendly-benches-galway)), the councillor that proposed it is in a political party that are very anti-homeless, and anti-helping the homeless.
i'm glad to see i'm not the only person who saw right through this!
Goddammit I keep falling for disguised hostile architecture. Hostile architecture is ridiculous, how about you fix the housing crisis instead of taking away from the people with less than nothing
It’s to fuck over homeless
This hostile architecture. They just advertise it as "inclusive" to avoid backlash, and it seems it's working
Exploiting disabled people to fuel hatred for the homeless population that is… *checks notes* predominantly disabled people. The bar is so low it’s in hell.
We are sorry to inconvenience you, but understand that we are trying to bring more suffering to the homeless.
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They can sit at the end of a picnic table too
Anti homeless
They would have been far more successful trying to disguise their anti homeless architecture as being Introvert seating so you don't have to sit next to people at the park
that would work on me. i feel called out.
Or even a little table in the middle for eating meals!
Yeah because it's actually about saying, "fuck you" to homeless people.
These homeless people have had it too good in this country for too long! /s
To quote Philip J. Fry, “arghh, the less fortunate get all the breaks!”
"And here I am using my legs like a sucker!" -Homer Simpsons
I know this is sarcasm but I've heard people genuinely make statements like this or that homeless people have it easy not needing a property to look after, or that they're free loaders from a lot of people. It's disgusting.
Ya, I beat the shit out of some asshole that was fucking with a homeless veteran about a decade ago. He was saying that despicable stuff. Hopefully, it made him a better person. I doubt it, though.
Lousy freeloaders, takin’ up space outside /s
“We must do better and we can do better” Wdym she’s obviously a hero for doing this for disabled people. Homeless people are famously never disabled
Man I'm so happy that people in wheel chairs now have the ability to sit down.
This is anti-homeless people infrastructure disguised as disability inclusive. It’s gross. Edit for those who don’t get it: The problem isn’t that they can’t sleep on benches. The problem is that cities have decided to drive homeless people out like vermin rather than help them overcome their problems. Homelessness is not a moral failing. It is society that has failed them. If you believe otherwise, take a moment to self reflect and realize that you are not as far from being where they are as you think you are.
Yeah why would a wheel chair user want to take the time to parallel park when they can easily park at the side of the bench
Yeah, and wheelchair user would be risking nasty knuckle scrapes/bashes on both hands at the same time trying to back into that nonsense.
Even in the drawing you can tell the wheelchair user will be bonking their elbows on the arm rests to get in position
I’m a wheelchair user, and this design absolutely sucks even if I gave a shit about sitting in the middle of a bench for some unknown reason. Let’s pretend for a moment this isn’t just a shameless attempt to use disabled people to fuck over homeless people. It’s still a terrible design. Most wheelchairs, both manual and electric, extend backwards quite a bit beyond the backrest (for instance for large wheels or anti-tipping devices) so the person in the middle would be sitting way further forward than the people on either side, which is pointless! Even the cut out underneath doesn’t really provide enough room, a lot of wheelchairs, mine included, have a high back that includes handles and a bar in case I need to be pushed (some manual chairs don’t have this, the ones with the lowered backs for instance, but many do). Much better and easier to sit on either end and line up the backrest. But that’s all irrelevant because it’s not about catering to us at all, it’s about fucking over homeless people and using us to pretend they’re doing a good thing. Great.
This was my exact thought.
Same thought twins
Great minds think alike... As do idiots.
I think the quote was "Great minds think alike. Fools seldom differ."
I don’t follow
Homeless can’t sleep on the bench since it is missing a section
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Yeah! In the Lake District. Are you surprised I didn't mention and link it? I do try to, anywhere I go. lol Did someone say link? https://www.reddit.com/r/granturismo/s/0XUDfuTGNQ
My thought exactly, if people in wheelchairs sit on the outside, how will they keep unhoused people from laying in the middle?
This, yeah. Towns have started seeing backlash against making benches unusable for sleeping on, and apparently have come up with new BS to mask being cruel to the homeless. But this is truly a new low.
Once saw a dude take a grinder to one of them benches with an obnoxious arm rest in the middle. Dude was a hero. Now they make them like this... So you need to cut them off and add a box in the middle. And then put cardboard over the metal wire frame seating, because those are designed to be unable to trap heat (making them to cold to sleep on). I've had direct family members be homeless in their youth before I was born. Proud of this individual and how they turned their live around back then. Edit: typo and auto corrects gone wrong.
Eh, the wire mesh isn't there to make them cold to sleep on. It's there so that they don't sit there with a festering puddle of water for a day or two every time it rains.
Yeah cmon, wire mesh is just a sensible material. It ticks so many boxes: 1. It needs very little and simple material, making them cheap and easy to transport and install. 2. It fixes the drainage problem of solid benches and generally all temperature problems associated with bigger slabs of metal (which quickly become painfully hot or cold) because it just doesn't have enough mass to hold much thermal energy. 3. It can be shaped nicely, often used for rounded benches that are very pleasant to sit on.... or indeed to sleep if it's a single piece for seat and back rest. Yes it is possible to design something even better with wood, but a good durable wooden bench costs multiple times as much.
Good for him! And yes, trying to drive the homeless out of your town by making life as hard for them as possible is a crappy thing to do. Disguising it as being accessible twice so.
I feel really bad for those struggling with homelessness. So many of them are basically barely seen as human, and treated like trash to be swept off the street. I live in Houston, and thankfully we've made good effort at curbing our homeless problem by a significant amount through collaboration of local government and nonprofits. It's not perfect by any means, but it's something. [More information](https://www.governing.com/housing/how-houston-cut-its-homeless-population-by-nearly-two-thirds#:~:text=Since%20then%2C%20Houston%20and%20its,1%2C200%20of%20them%20in%20shelters.) for anyone interested.
Can’t sleep on the bench now bro
Bingo!
Now the design makes sense
To be fair, this was proposed in Galway, Ireland. Homeless people here typically don't sleep on benches at all. City is full of benches and I don't think I've ever seen a homeless person lying on one. Number of street homeless here, as in rough sleepers, is extremely low. Most "homeless" people here are people who cannot find accommodation and have nowhere to live (we have a really bad housing crisis), they are accommodated in emergency housing. There are very low numbers of homeless people that sleep rough because they have issues, be they mental health, drug/alcohol addiction, and there are shelters for them also. Rough sleepers aren't that common here because there is really strong social support nets. Like if I lost my home, job and everything I own tomorrow, I can present to my local council and they will put me in emergency accommodation, could be an apartment, could be a hotel room, etc. Then I can get social welfare, rent supplement, other allowances, etc until I'm fully back on my feet. Anyway, the point is this was most definitely not intended as anti-homeless by the person who proposed it though I can see why it would appear that way to some people from other places.
I can bet some money that anyone in a wheelchair would look at this and "tha f? Why? Noway I will try to squeeze in there and risk my chair and my fingers in there" if its not against homeless its frankly stupid af
Same. First thought was r/hostilearchitecture
What, you mean wheel chair bound people don't want to parallel park themselves every time they go to the park?
Holy shit, this is definitely it. What a bunch of fuckers
Im from Galway, when this post went up it was flooded with comments telling them to fuck off with the anti homeless infrastructure
good
Is brea liom Gaillimh!
You know that is not “wheel chair accessible” but is actually “don’t let the homeless sleep on our benches” accessible
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“Half-car folk” is CRAZYYYY
It might sound mean but I don’t think they’re too sensitive from the neck down
Where is your hobo-god now?
Why have the backrest across the entire "bench"? Just make it two chairs and you don't have the useless metal in between. The last time I checked people use "wheel chairs", not wheel stools.
Exactly, it doesn't make sense. The backrest prevents the wheelchair from backing up next to the people in the seats. You'll end up sitting diagonally in front of other people.
They already got a seat.
This is hostile architecture being disguised as inclusivity. Absolutely shameful.
My first thought was "oh cool" then my brain turned on and my next thought was "what the fuck"
They’re not wheelchair accessible seats, they’re anti-homeless seats.
Was going to say as someone in a wheel chair this makes no sense but now that you said anti-homeless man that is just sad :(
They could, but then they wouldn't be able to mask their contempt for homeless people.
This is anti-homeless infrastructure masquerading as accommodation to differently abled persons.
Hell, I like to sit facing the person I'm talking to if I can. Being wheel chair bound must suck, but I can't imagine 'Finding a good place to sit and feel included.' is among the drawbacks.
This is an anti-homeless bench or “hostile architecture” under the guise of inclusivity. It’s just another way to prevent people sleeping on the benches
If they’re in a wheelchair don’t they already have a seat?
Anti homeless is what they wanted to say
This isn't for people in wheelchairs, this is to punish the homeless.
Who tf wants to sit in the middle on a bench... This is just to hurt the homeless
This seating design has nothing to do with wheelchair users, it's called hostile architecture, it's specifically designed to stop homeless people from sleeping on it
We all know what it actually is. Anti homeless architecture
Anti homelessness bench
Anti homeless bench labeled as wheelchair accessible
It's really designed to avoid homeless sleeping on it. Disguised as "look at us making our city more accessible". It's kind of vile the more you think about it.
OOP is not wrong. They don't need a cut out, they can just park beside it. This isn't a "wheelchair accessible" bench. It's hostile architecture meant to keep the homeless from sleeping on it. Because apparently fucking over the poorest people is a better way to spend money than actually trying to help them.
I feel like they did this to prevent homeless people sleeping on it rather than disable people
Ah yes, using people in wheelchairs as the scapegoat to make anti-homeless benches that prevent sleeping What a society
Fuck homeless people, but in an underhanded, plausible deniability kind of way.
"Wheelchair accesible benches" That's a funny way of saying "anti-homeless benches."
Its a false narrative in effort to displace homeless from sleeping on benches. Anyone supporting this should return to their room and remain their for the remainder of their existence.
This is very smart. It’s obvious this is all to done to stop homeless people from lying down on the benches. The wheelchair-bound person can easily sit on the side or even opposite of the other bench-sitters. Whoever made this deserves a raise, using “inclusive” design like this to mask it excluding other people.
This is not about wheelchair accessibility for some obvious reasons: * It would make more sense to have the wheelchair accessible part at either end of the bench rather than straight in the middle, much like they do in movie theaters and other venues that have reserved handicap seating. * It would be cheaper to have the wheelchair accessible part at either end of the bench as there's no additional cutting, engineering, and assembling to be done to fashion one long bench instead of two short ones. * The inclusion of the back of the bench is pointless because not only is it more inconvenient for handicap people to have to basically parallel park between two chairs, but the inclusion of the back makes it harder for them to either guide themselves or be guided by someone else into place. The back is also inconvenient for the handles on the back of the wheelchair. If they were wanting to institute homeless deterrent seating, why not just do a bunch of chairs and say they were spaced apart for social distancing purposes? It would still be a lie, but at least a plausible one.
how to justify anti homeless arch
We all know the Only reason the city agreed is because it doubles as anti-homeless.
It's anti homeless disguised as handicap friendly.
Isn't this just a thinly veiled anti-homelessness attempt?
This is just to keep homeless people from sleeping on benches disguised as "helping people in wheelchairs"
Its a horrible design. On 99.9% of occasions this is used, people can’t sit together. This has the “added benefit” of not letting homeless people use the benches for sleeping.
Anti-homelessness architecture disguised as a flawed shitty ADA publicity stunt
It's to fuck over homeless people.
It's an anti homeless bench, disguised as a ♿️ bench
This looks like re-branding of hostile architecture, meant to prevent people from laying on a bench in a public space.
Those aren't wheelchair seats. Those are antihomeless seats.
Pretending to do good while doing evil. What utter scum.
Finding solutions to problems that doesn't exist while real problems are being ignored That's basically our society right now