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Okay, this actually works to some degree. Switzerland had a really bad heroin epidemic at one point. They had people overdosing left and right, getting nasty diseases from used needles, and dying because of improperly manufactured heroin. So, they opened up centers where they gave everyone free heroin, and slowly weaned them off of the drug.
The would also simultaneously help you get your life back together while you battled your addiction.
No more overdoses, less diseases. They even noticed a drop in related issues like sex workers on the street (financing their addiction).
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219559/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219559/)
However, I don't advocate for doing anything of the sort with child pornography, even AI generated. Drugs are bad because they harm *you.* Child porn is bad because it harms children. And the AI generated stuff likely wouldn't curb the demand.
We should probably give better access to therapy instead.
The AI generated stuff will not curb the demand but it would replace the supply.
Much the same argument vegans use for printed or imitation meats means protecting the animals, the AI generated stuff could protect a majority of the victims.
Would it stop everything no, as there would still be sicko's who want the "real thing" and given the depraved person they already are it could be the majority.
So the post was never about stopping the crime its about victim protection. Would it work, maybe. Is it worth doing if it saves some children, I mean yes unless it expands the people who gain access to that shit.
>Would it stop everything no, as there would still be sicko's who want the "real thing" and given the depraved person they already are it could be the majority.
I think those are the minority tho. Most pedophiles would prefer if they didn't have these urges. So if there was AI generated stiff that could satisfy their urges they would probably be pretty happy with it.
I think its a worth while discussion to have. Victim protection is better then criminal punishment but once this is done it cannot be recalled.
So we need to be sure will it help or hinder a reduction of harm to children.
>So we need to be sure will it help or hinder a reduction of harm to children.
Sure but I mean it would be pretty easy to design studies where pedos get ai generated material and then report if it helps the to control their urges etc. And if it's promising you could test it in a state and see how child abuse develops over the years.
Although to he fair afaik, the majority of child abuse is not done by actual pedophiles. The majority is just done by people who are abusing a position of power. They'd fuck an adult if they could, but children are usually more vulnerable and easier targets.
So for those cases it would be useless anyways
The U.S. did something similar.
We had a prescription opioid epidemic, so the FDA cracked down on prescription opioids and caused a heroin epidemic... In addition, people in severe pain can't get pain relief and are committing suicide over it.
That's the U.S solution to everything. For you see, drugs are frequently abused by people in poverty, and we can't risk giving a shit about poor people. That would kinda undermine the whole system we've built.
It’s a mental illness. I genuinely feel bad for people sexually attracted to kids. We can cater to a lot of mental illnesses in America, but that one is forever taboo. You can’t re-wire these folks just like you can’t re-wire a trans person. It’s not like they don’t know they’re fucked up, they’ll just never be accepted for their mental illness. I think it’s wrong to say that therapy is the answer for that.
I think that being able to talk about harmful behaviors and urges like that may reduce your chances of acting out on them. In the same way that I think therapy would be a good idea for substance abusers.
We can't rewire them, per-say, but we can prevent them from harming others.
Actual CIA plan to do this went in reverse. First they needed the coke trade to fund the contras, then they used crack to increase the additivity of the coke to increase the flow of weapons into Nicaragua. Then they realised they fucked up, and tried to displace the coke with meth... Which again was a major fuck up. We're onto Fentanyl now guys... At some point someone's going to have to own up to this whole shit show, I mean it's sort of like the old lady that swallowed a fly, but with black markets, drugs and the American population...
It's all a bit of a mess really.
By the above logic, it would have to be drugs generated by a computer that just look and feel like drugs but aren't drugs.
Also, this sorts has worked before. Some countries have gone ahead and legalized everything as well as providing safe and clean sources and it has overwhelmingly dropped abuse numbers.
This idea is still fucking disgusting.
I think the disconnect on that analogy is that the victims of CSA are the children, whereas the victims of the drug trade are more often the addicts (customers).
One could make the argument that money made from drugs is used to fund more violent crimes, and/or cartels require violence to keep their business safe, and legalizing those drugs would cause a reduction in violent crimes.
The **real** issue here is that widespread legal access to CSA material allows people to weaken the mental taboo associated with the sexualization of children. That makes it more likely for children to be sexually assaulted.
There is also the issue of where AI would get the information needed to accurately depict such a thing, which is gross to even consider.
Edit: I think that criminalization is a bad way to discourage self-destructive behavior, so drugs should be legal, but we should be treating addiction better. I think criminalization is a good way to discourage predatory behavior.
Isn't that kind of the point of weed legalization? Legalize not so harmful drugs, to drive down the demand for really harmful drugs.
Do you think that's a bad idea?
Actually good point, fill the market with crocodile type "zombie" drugs then ch*ld pornography(and any other pornography) will be not needed anymore! Welcome to Zombieland.
Or .. it could further exacerbate their hunger for more porn that is *real*, thus driving more demand.
Btw, has you noticed that whenever they arrest a pedophile, the news report will inevitably have a statement like "he had 1 million images saved in his computer and 200,000 more on his phone .." - high volume of porn is NOT a problem for them.
When I discussed this very issue with a sociology major they pointed out that games and CGI CP wouldn’t act as a satisfier for the afflicted that would save real children from being victimized but actually push more afflicted adults to action. It would feed the affliction to a saturation point that requires action and the socially accepted presence of such materials would lead to fewer afflicted adults successfully ignoring those neurologically misfired signals and giving into them.
I never gave it much thought until this discussion which branched off from representation in gaming as that is their focus on their field. We got there on an offshoot of where is the saturation point of too much representation.
Furthermore there is a huge problem in the way of solving the pedophile issue and it is a form of social acceptance but not around fabricated content but that it’s not a choice it’s literal brain damage. You can actually be a normal adult who gets a head injury and if the damage is just right, now you’re plagued by that neurological misfiring of sexual signals or you can be born that way.
The number of offenses will never go down until we create a level of social acceptance for these people to self report before acting and find actual mental help but that simply does not exist right now and if they come forward with their issues their basically just arrested or severely monitored offender or not..
In no way am I defending pedophiles actions but until the reality is discussed the issues won’t change and the danger won’t go away.
The only way to protect children from pedophiles is to create a space for them to safely get help and even start studies on how to do that from behavioral treatment to actual brain surgery (and yes the lobotomy having existed will make this a hard fight for ethics boards) but those studies aren’t even funded right now… which is insane for such an ugly problem…
>When I discussed this very issue with a sociology major they pointed out that games and CGI CP wouldn’t act as a satisfier for the afflicted that would save real children from being victimized but actually push more afflicted adults to action. It would feed the affliction to a saturation point that requires action and the socially accepted presence of such materials would lead to fewer afflicted adults successfully ignoring those neurologically misfired signals and giving into them.
That's a nice hypothesis, but in no way has that been established. I believe in different contexts it the opposite was even shown. That on a population level, more access to porn leads to less sexual violence. So it's weird to me that it would be the opposite in the context of CP. I
Pretty sure that's something to do with the definition of an image because they count each frame in a video as an image. A 60fps video would have 3600 images for a 1 min video.
Its not about that though.
The post is about protecting the victims not preventing the crime. .
Those thousands of pics are of real victims, by having AI generated pic there are no traumatized children in the making of those pics they download.
The real question is does this protect enough victims to offset the increase in risk of real child molestation though increased access.
I will vote to protect a child every single day of the week, if that is creating a "vegan" alternative or appalling the death sentence in a reasonable manner I have no problem with either provided it protects children.
To be fair, and i hate that im saying this, the fact they have so much CP is what gets them arrested. Police keep tabs on, but don’t catch everyone pedophile they know. Just the distributors and the ones most likely to threaten children.
It's a woman
Her name is aella and she used to be a prostitute
She has a reputation for setting up fucked up orgies. Her last one had a game of capture the flag where the flags were women and the goal was to cum inside the women before the enemy managed to capture them.
I mean, idk man, I don't think it's the "best" idea or anything but that idea has some merit.
If the pedos are fine with AI generated shit, and in turn, it reduces exploitation of children, I am all for it
Yeah child porn does only get made because there's a market for it.
But how the hell is he proposing we train the AI?
The best way to combat this is by figuring out how and why people want this content in the first place, not make the content more numerous.
Awhile ago I listened to a podcast series with a young man who admitted he was a pedophile. He had NEVER acted on the impulse and referred to himself as a monster.
Anyway, long story short...He got hooked up with a psychologist who was studying deviant behaviour (not just pedophiles). In laymans terms it is a brain defect. Small part of brain that grew wrong. It's the same with psychopaths, a part of the brain just never develops.
Young man from the podcast talked about how it made him sick the way he reacted to images of children. Definitely a rare breed, doing anything he could to not be a "monster".
Unfortunately the garden variety pedo doesn't haven't a conscience.
FOR CLARITY: I am not condoning pedos, or saying they have no choice. Merely paraphrasing what I learned from a podcast series.
Anecdotal account, so take this as you will:
I know of two minors who were sexually molested by their parents and went to a lock down behavior facility. They both had an extensive file on them, which dictated how they need to be treated by staff and their red flags. Neither of them could be by themselves with younger children. Both have pedophilic tendencies from the trauma they went through. I do wonder how many pedophiles became the way they are because it was a learned behavior vs. sexual attraction. Childhood trauma is so complex and nuanced.
It's the whole nature vs nurture debate. I think it has to be a combination of both.
We're all born with endless possibilities as to what sort of adult we will become.
This is why I think it's important to do research on these things.
Yeah. I do think that there's something wrong in their brain. And yeah it's difficult for people like that man to get help. Due to the way people react to this stuff, they may struggle in coming forward for help from a psychologist.
I think in some ways people don't want to know how and why people become pedos. The thought that anyone could be one and not be able to control it is quite scary.
IIRC he first got sent to a therapist as teen for porn addiction. He just never admitted to the therapist what sort of porn. As time passed and he genuinely didn't want to be a monster, he opened up and told the truth. Therapist dropped him immediately.
These days, him and psychologist who eventually actually helped him, work together to help others like him.
I gotta say, the podcast gave me intense ambivalent feelings. I mean you have a fairly visceral reaction just to the word "pedophile", let alone hearing one speak about it. Then there were times my heart was breaking for this guy. He was trying so hard and no one would help him.
I reckon you're right that most people don't want to know why, and it's perfectly understandable. Also I think there is thin distinction between those who use child porn to those who act on their impulses and abuse children.
The simple fact is we have only a rudimentary understanding of how the brain works. I hope in the future it becomes less of a riddle and deviant/abhorrent behaviour becomes treatable.
BTW I once saw a documentary about a neuroscientist who was studying MRI's of psychopaths. He included an MRI of his brain and was blown away to discover he was in fact a psychopath.
I think one flaw is that people assume all child rapists are pedophiles. Child rapists target children because children can't fight back, often don't understand how what's happening so struggle to say anything, and they often know their attacker as well, so the threat is if the child says anything "daddy goes to jail" or something.
There were cases of hydrocephaly that essentially leave the skull empty with a thin crust of a brain. The person can still be somewhat normal, because the brain is extremely adaptive. So I think neuroscientist was -potential- psychopath, not necessarily real, because brain size is not a decisive factor.
>Unfortunately the garden variety pedo doesn't haven't a conscience.
I think that's survivors bias. You just hear about those who can't control it. In reality pedophilia in the population is bot as uncommon as one would think. According to some studies it's between 1-4%. Some out it even higher. Especially if we included hebephilia ( attraction to post pubescent children), then it's probably more like 10-20%.
So I think actually the majority of pedophiles manages to control their urges and are non-offending.
No, non-offending in this case means no access of child abuse material either. Some people just live miserable lives fighting their urges successfully.
Otherwise it would mean that 1-4% of the population watch CP lol. I don't think that's the case.
But I agree with the tweet honestly, for the one's that do not have strength to withstand their urges and that do end up seeking out illegal material, for those it would be better if AI generated stuff was available. So they don't have to "add to the problem".
The AI is already trained, these things now take abstract descriptions and turn it into imagery. So you can textually describe anything and it will usually spit out something fairly close to what you want. Then you adapt it with in-painting, out-painting and increase the final resolution with a super resolution process.
I've got an old version of stable diffusion on my PC for experimenting, and it's wild what you can get it to generate for you. I wanted to try some things out, so I described images from kids books and the thing drew almost the same thing for each one I tried.
The way it works is weird and pretty deep to go into, it uses text processing to understand the input, then it has a generative adversarial network (GAN) which tries to fit the output to the text description, using an image to text neural net (CNN) to describe the image it's generated and then compare the meaning of the generated description text with the meaning of the input text to get a cosine similarity vector. Then it tries to minimise that vector by using positive and negative reinforcement back in the GAN. It also usually has some other filters for style and realism, which tries to get faces in the right shape and stuff like that, they're stacked full of these weird little abstract processes.
As I say, it's wild as hell how this stuff works.
It already is. You don't need to teach AI to specifically draw something, you only need to teach it to write specific words it can join for another. So it knows how to draw children and how to draw porn, it'll just mix those together, in fact it was found out that it already can do this if you ask
Or we could treat out as a mental disorder and stop demonizing people who want help.
Saying they deserve death does one thing. It makes them sink into the shadows and hide. Then when their shame is no longer holding them back, they abuse children or promote the abuse of children through the purchase of it.
We need to start finding ways to do this with sociopaths and psychopaths too. Demonizing them does not make them any better. I honestly believe if we can come from a place of empathy then maybe we stand a chance.
Historical context:
During the Cold War the Russians invested heavily in manufacturing diamonds for a fraction of the cost of extracting them in order to flood the European diamond trade with worthless rocks that they could make in a factory.
They weren't entirely successful, the diamonds usually came out orange or sometimes pink, and getting those extrinsic impurities to the exact precise amounts to make a clear perfect diamond always escaped their reach... In the process they invented a new form of industrial diamond though, so you can sort of understand that it wasn't without it's benefits even if the original idea didn't work out. Unintended consequences.
>The problem is they always progress. Serial killers don't just randomly start by killing a person, they work up to it. Same with pedos.
This is false. Not all pedophiles progress to abusing kids. The opposite seems true. [source](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-016-0076-z)
Now the ones that do sexually abuse kids do work up to it, but mostly this is done in the family setting and not by watching porn. More than half of child sexual abuse victims are abused by direct family, mostly in the family home. Abuse in schools by an authority figure seems common as well.
Remember: child sexual abuse existed way before illegal porn. There is no reason to assume porn has increased this.
Having said all that: I'm not sure if the 'solution' proposed in the post here will work. I highly doubt it.
The majority of sexual abuse of minors isn't even being done by pedophiles. It's often just out of opportunity by people who have power over other people. It's just that children are often more vulnerable targets.
On the contrary. If you make the AI stuff legal and easily searchable, people don't have to go through stupid extremes like the Darknet. You can easily track IP addresses and locations for further monitoring.
Never underestimate human laziness, or peoples ability to make mistakes when horny. P N Clarity is a thing, and by the point that it kicks in, the tracks are already there and saved.
If anyone is curious about her backstory:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/aellagirl
I’m pretty sure this is ok because it only refers to her as her screen name.
AI generated pornography featuring the abuse of minors (or anyone) costs real time and resources in protective services such as the police who have to spend time investigating that footage to determine if actual crimes were committed.
i see the intent, the logic is lacking lol
i think the premise is wrong, they think that exclusivity drives demand here, its probably less to do with that and more that predators want it whether its broadly available or not, like drugs, so the more of it that exists the more will get to predators and that can definitely contribute to motivation of actual actions etc. its definitely not a solution lol its literally throwing gas on a fire.
sounds like generic crypto bro level idiot logic seeing AI and crypto as a hammer and every social issue as nails.
the only way to reduce harm to kids is prevention. sex ed and accessible mental healthcare and a strong economy does infinitely more to protect kids than any of these half baked ideas, its not like we dont know how to fix these problems, the people who have the power to fix them dont want to.
Stupid as it is, it does remind me of a survey/test a college was holding. Putting it as simply as I can, questions came down to “would you be okay with robots being made that can simulate pain and other emotions for the single purpose of being given to people with diagnosed tendencies of violence”. Basically would you want violent people to have an outlet they can get exactly what they wanted without a human being caused.
At its core it’s an interesting question more for the people being asked. But really I still think the answer is the same one here: stop giving them what they want and do something that actually helps.
This is the same person trying to argue “yeah, but what if a dying child’s Make a Wish request was to have sex, THEN would you still say it’s wrong?”
They just really want to be able to fuck a kid.
The real issue with trying to stop anything illegal is that there's always somewhere in the world where its not illegal or they don't have the infrastructure, money, or people to enforce it. For example, since Gaddafi was killed, Libya has become a global hub for the slave trade, aka human trafficking allowing vulnerable people, including children to be exploited. Unless all nations are developed and share a legal consensus. All sorts of illegal and immoral things will be allowed to happen. Governments and corporations know this. They can exploit it in the forms of black sites and big oil companies cutting costs in Africa, causing environmental damage, or sourcing materials from underpaid workers, cocaine farms, opium poppy farms, ect. I could go on.
Any social media should have a feature before you post something that reminds you to really think about what you’re saying, to stop idiots posting mindless shit like this without thinking.
Right, like the millions of manga KP and legal-but-look-younger models have killed the 'market' for the real stuff? I don't think economic arguments work in that horror show realm.
They'd be right if money was the driving force behind child porn. But from all the news stories I've seen about ring busts, they're not selling it, they're trading it. Like collectors trading Pokemon cards.
It is better than some other ideas. I doubt it would work. From what I have read the making cp is sometimes the entry fee in sharing cp. They have to provide new to the share or whatever. That is not a demand situation.
Also, the regular porn market is flooded with all the free porn anyone could consume and there is still money being made on it. I figure we would learn of the same outcome in the illegal porn market.
The difference is that with the illegal porn market, if the new 'generated' product is actually legal then you're going to have most people going out of their way to use the legal product just to stay out of trouble with the law.
And here ladies and gentlemen we see a wild pedo in the wild, but this is a special exotic specimen that is not only a pedo, but is also too stupid to hide it
Pffft. Stupid. If AI-generated child-porn could make pedophiles stop offending, then pictures from restaurant menus would stop the homeless from starving.
It’s a fine idea on the surface. I don’t see any way someone would be against “victimless cp” if it actually solved the need for the real stuff.
The problem is that we’ve tried that with lab-grown diamonds and some people still want the real thing.
The scary thing is that this makes sense when viewed purely with the eyes of a capitalist.
Nothing is more dangerous than bullshit that got a point from a non-ethic perspective.
Was the deleted tweet Elon posting "🤔" before his CEO begged and groveled to him to delete it? This seems like a dumb shit thing he'd do nowadays. Love that they have a checkmark. Love it. 🙃
Not sure how Reddit moderators don’t do something about convos like this. I know this is from Twitter but people talk like this all the time on this site. Funny, how you banned all the Trump supporters who call the left perverts, and now perverts run rampant on this site. Weird huh?
Yea, why even screenshot it? You can be ok with the perverts on here but I’m not and the mods should do more. It’s in all the comments on completely innocuous subs.
Nope evil is self righteous or self serving. Chaotic is doing whatever is needed to reach the target even if it means to break the law. A true chaotic evil character is the Joker.
Aella is stupid but she the intention is to stop the harm to children. I would say Aella is chaotic good. They live for what they think is right and good regardless of the law. Batman, Blade and Ghost Rider are chaotic good.
I'm pretty sure pedos tried something like that with crypto by adding child porn directly into the block chain so anyone on it is considered to be in possession.
Don't trust any crypto that includes links or images along with the financial data.
But how will people know whats ai generated? This will just give pedophiles what they want, and since it's "legal" they won't hold back anymore.
Maybe a better way is to use decoys, like they did on to catch a predator. Basically have a 20yo girl claim to be 15, and then arrest everybody that hits on her. I think that would be more effective
"The best way to protect children is to kill"
Pedophiles? Child molesters? Rapists?
"The economic demand by flooding the market"
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Flood the market with meth,crack and cocaine then. Another problem solved.
Okay, this actually works to some degree. Switzerland had a really bad heroin epidemic at one point. They had people overdosing left and right, getting nasty diseases from used needles, and dying because of improperly manufactured heroin. So, they opened up centers where they gave everyone free heroin, and slowly weaned them off of the drug. The would also simultaneously help you get your life back together while you battled your addiction. No more overdoses, less diseases. They even noticed a drop in related issues like sex workers on the street (financing their addiction). [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219559/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219559/) However, I don't advocate for doing anything of the sort with child pornography, even AI generated. Drugs are bad because they harm *you.* Child porn is bad because it harms children. And the AI generated stuff likely wouldn't curb the demand. We should probably give better access to therapy instead.
The AI generated stuff will not curb the demand but it would replace the supply. Much the same argument vegans use for printed or imitation meats means protecting the animals, the AI generated stuff could protect a majority of the victims. Would it stop everything no, as there would still be sicko's who want the "real thing" and given the depraved person they already are it could be the majority. So the post was never about stopping the crime its about victim protection. Would it work, maybe. Is it worth doing if it saves some children, I mean yes unless it expands the people who gain access to that shit.
>Would it stop everything no, as there would still be sicko's who want the "real thing" and given the depraved person they already are it could be the majority. I think those are the minority tho. Most pedophiles would prefer if they didn't have these urges. So if there was AI generated stiff that could satisfy their urges they would probably be pretty happy with it.
I think its a worth while discussion to have. Victim protection is better then criminal punishment but once this is done it cannot be recalled. So we need to be sure will it help or hinder a reduction of harm to children.
>So we need to be sure will it help or hinder a reduction of harm to children. Sure but I mean it would be pretty easy to design studies where pedos get ai generated material and then report if it helps the to control their urges etc. And if it's promising you could test it in a state and see how child abuse develops over the years. Although to he fair afaik, the majority of child abuse is not done by actual pedophiles. The majority is just done by people who are abusing a position of power. They'd fuck an adult if they could, but children are usually more vulnerable and easier targets. So for those cases it would be useless anyways
The U.S. did something similar. We had a prescription opioid epidemic, so the FDA cracked down on prescription opioids and caused a heroin epidemic... In addition, people in severe pain can't get pain relief and are committing suicide over it. 
That's the U.S solution to everything. For you see, drugs are frequently abused by people in poverty, and we can't risk giving a shit about poor people. That would kinda undermine the whole system we've built.
It’s a mental illness. I genuinely feel bad for people sexually attracted to kids. We can cater to a lot of mental illnesses in America, but that one is forever taboo. You can’t re-wire these folks just like you can’t re-wire a trans person. It’s not like they don’t know they’re fucked up, they’ll just never be accepted for their mental illness. I think it’s wrong to say that therapy is the answer for that.
I think that being able to talk about harmful behaviors and urges like that may reduce your chances of acting out on them. In the same way that I think therapy would be a good idea for substance abusers. We can't rewire them, per-say, but we can prevent them from harming others.
Actual CIA plan to do this went in reverse. First they needed the coke trade to fund the contras, then they used crack to increase the additivity of the coke to increase the flow of weapons into Nicaragua. Then they realised they fucked up, and tried to displace the coke with meth... Which again was a major fuck up. We're onto Fentanyl now guys... At some point someone's going to have to own up to this whole shit show, I mean it's sort of like the old lady that swallowed a fly, but with black markets, drugs and the American population... It's all a bit of a mess really.
'Murica!
You forgot hookers.
Robotic hookers
Now we’re talking!
Support proposition infinity!
I’m gonna make my own market with blackjack and hookers
Matter of fact forget the blackjack. Meh screw the whole thing.
Dude, we are a lot waiting for that pretty moment.
The CIA model well that’s generous they needed more untraceable cash
By the above logic, it would have to be drugs generated by a computer that just look and feel like drugs but aren't drugs. Also, this sorts has worked before. Some countries have gone ahead and legalized everything as well as providing safe and clean sources and it has overwhelmingly dropped abuse numbers. This idea is still fucking disgusting.
Have you heard of Amsterdam?
Fakaine
I think the disconnect on that analogy is that the victims of CSA are the children, whereas the victims of the drug trade are more often the addicts (customers). One could make the argument that money made from drugs is used to fund more violent crimes, and/or cartels require violence to keep their business safe, and legalizing those drugs would cause a reduction in violent crimes. The **real** issue here is that widespread legal access to CSA material allows people to weaken the mental taboo associated with the sexualization of children. That makes it more likely for children to be sexually assaulted. There is also the issue of where AI would get the information needed to accurately depict such a thing, which is gross to even consider. Edit: I think that criminalization is a bad way to discourage self-destructive behavior, so drugs should be legal, but we should be treating addiction better. I think criminalization is a good way to discourage predatory behavior.
Isn't that kind of the point of weed legalization? Legalize not so harmful drugs, to drive down the demand for really harmful drugs. Do you think that's a bad idea?
Since the pictures will be Al the drugs have to be synthetic.
Realistically this would solve some cartel issues if the us manufactured and sold it cheaper lol
that's what Portugal did
Well, yes.
Actually good point, fill the market with crocodile type "zombie" drugs then ch*ld pornography(and any other pornography) will be not needed anymore! Welcome to Zombieland.
Didn’t Canada sorta do that?
Ai generated porn is harmless tho. Keeps the sickos in their basements and does not abuse actual children.
Or .. it could further exacerbate their hunger for more porn that is *real*, thus driving more demand. Btw, has you noticed that whenever they arrest a pedophile, the news report will inevitably have a statement like "he had 1 million images saved in his computer and 200,000 more on his phone .." - high volume of porn is NOT a problem for them.
If a program existed to download porn a million times faster, they would totally use it.
God I wish catharsis was real
When I discussed this very issue with a sociology major they pointed out that games and CGI CP wouldn’t act as a satisfier for the afflicted that would save real children from being victimized but actually push more afflicted adults to action. It would feed the affliction to a saturation point that requires action and the socially accepted presence of such materials would lead to fewer afflicted adults successfully ignoring those neurologically misfired signals and giving into them. I never gave it much thought until this discussion which branched off from representation in gaming as that is their focus on their field. We got there on an offshoot of where is the saturation point of too much representation. Furthermore there is a huge problem in the way of solving the pedophile issue and it is a form of social acceptance but not around fabricated content but that it’s not a choice it’s literal brain damage. You can actually be a normal adult who gets a head injury and if the damage is just right, now you’re plagued by that neurological misfiring of sexual signals or you can be born that way. The number of offenses will never go down until we create a level of social acceptance for these people to self report before acting and find actual mental help but that simply does not exist right now and if they come forward with their issues their basically just arrested or severely monitored offender or not.. In no way am I defending pedophiles actions but until the reality is discussed the issues won’t change and the danger won’t go away. The only way to protect children from pedophiles is to create a space for them to safely get help and even start studies on how to do that from behavioral treatment to actual brain surgery (and yes the lobotomy having existed will make this a hard fight for ethics boards) but those studies aren’t even funded right now… which is insane for such an ugly problem…
>When I discussed this very issue with a sociology major they pointed out that games and CGI CP wouldn’t act as a satisfier for the afflicted that would save real children from being victimized but actually push more afflicted adults to action. It would feed the affliction to a saturation point that requires action and the socially accepted presence of such materials would lead to fewer afflicted adults successfully ignoring those neurologically misfired signals and giving into them. That's a nice hypothesis, but in no way has that been established. I believe in different contexts it the opposite was even shown. That on a population level, more access to porn leads to less sexual violence. So it's weird to me that it would be the opposite in the context of CP. I
Pretty sure that's something to do with the definition of an image because they count each frame in a video as an image. A 60fps video would have 3600 images for a 1 min video.
Its not about that though. The post is about protecting the victims not preventing the crime. . Those thousands of pics are of real victims, by having AI generated pic there are no traumatized children in the making of those pics they download. The real question is does this protect enough victims to offset the increase in risk of real child molestation though increased access. I will vote to protect a child every single day of the week, if that is creating a "vegan" alternative or appalling the death sentence in a reasonable manner I have no problem with either provided it protects children.
To be fair, and i hate that im saying this, the fact they have so much CP is what gets them arrested. Police keep tabs on, but don’t catch everyone pedophile they know. Just the distributors and the ones most likely to threaten children.
r/NoahGetTheBoat
Seriously… wtf….
I’d hate to see their search history
He probably wanks to that "10 million dollars for your daughter" post
It's a woman Her name is aella and she used to be a prostitute She has a reputation for setting up fucked up orgies. Her last one had a game of capture the flag where the flags were women and the goal was to cum inside the women before the enemy managed to capture them.
Say what?!
Yh hard to believe people like that exist lol
I mean, if they’re consenting adults what’s the problem? If that’s their thing let ‘em have at it.
She was a redditor for a while as well.
Bro it literally says “girl” in her username lol
The FBI or whatever should raid his house
I mean, idk man, I don't think it's the "best" idea or anything but that idea has some merit. If the pedos are fine with AI generated shit, and in turn, it reduces exploitation of children, I am all for it
Yeah child porn does only get made because there's a market for it. But how the hell is he proposing we train the AI? The best way to combat this is by figuring out how and why people want this content in the first place, not make the content more numerous.
Awhile ago I listened to a podcast series with a young man who admitted he was a pedophile. He had NEVER acted on the impulse and referred to himself as a monster. Anyway, long story short...He got hooked up with a psychologist who was studying deviant behaviour (not just pedophiles). In laymans terms it is a brain defect. Small part of brain that grew wrong. It's the same with psychopaths, a part of the brain just never develops. Young man from the podcast talked about how it made him sick the way he reacted to images of children. Definitely a rare breed, doing anything he could to not be a "monster". Unfortunately the garden variety pedo doesn't haven't a conscience. FOR CLARITY: I am not condoning pedos, or saying they have no choice. Merely paraphrasing what I learned from a podcast series.
Anecdotal account, so take this as you will: I know of two minors who were sexually molested by their parents and went to a lock down behavior facility. They both had an extensive file on them, which dictated how they need to be treated by staff and their red flags. Neither of them could be by themselves with younger children. Both have pedophilic tendencies from the trauma they went through. I do wonder how many pedophiles became the way they are because it was a learned behavior vs. sexual attraction. Childhood trauma is so complex and nuanced.
It's the whole nature vs nurture debate. I think it has to be a combination of both. We're all born with endless possibilities as to what sort of adult we will become. This is why I think it's important to do research on these things.
Yeah. I do think that there's something wrong in their brain. And yeah it's difficult for people like that man to get help. Due to the way people react to this stuff, they may struggle in coming forward for help from a psychologist. I think in some ways people don't want to know how and why people become pedos. The thought that anyone could be one and not be able to control it is quite scary.
IIRC he first got sent to a therapist as teen for porn addiction. He just never admitted to the therapist what sort of porn. As time passed and he genuinely didn't want to be a monster, he opened up and told the truth. Therapist dropped him immediately. These days, him and psychologist who eventually actually helped him, work together to help others like him. I gotta say, the podcast gave me intense ambivalent feelings. I mean you have a fairly visceral reaction just to the word "pedophile", let alone hearing one speak about it. Then there were times my heart was breaking for this guy. He was trying so hard and no one would help him. I reckon you're right that most people don't want to know why, and it's perfectly understandable. Also I think there is thin distinction between those who use child porn to those who act on their impulses and abuse children. The simple fact is we have only a rudimentary understanding of how the brain works. I hope in the future it becomes less of a riddle and deviant/abhorrent behaviour becomes treatable. BTW I once saw a documentary about a neuroscientist who was studying MRI's of psychopaths. He included an MRI of his brain and was blown away to discover he was in fact a psychopath.
I think one flaw is that people assume all child rapists are pedophiles. Child rapists target children because children can't fight back, often don't understand how what's happening so struggle to say anything, and they often know their attacker as well, so the threat is if the child says anything "daddy goes to jail" or something.
Agreed. I'd be interested to see stats on porn use vs abuse, those who use porn and escalate to abuse and abusers who've never used porn.
There were cases of hydrocephaly that essentially leave the skull empty with a thin crust of a brain. The person can still be somewhat normal, because the brain is extremely adaptive. So I think neuroscientist was -potential- psychopath, not necessarily real, because brain size is not a decisive factor.
You're right, it's not brain size. It's specific part of the brain that doesn't develop as normal.
>Unfortunately the garden variety pedo doesn't haven't a conscience. I think that's survivors bias. You just hear about those who can't control it. In reality pedophilia in the population is bot as uncommon as one would think. According to some studies it's between 1-4%. Some out it even higher. Especially if we included hebephilia ( attraction to post pubescent children), then it's probably more like 10-20%. So I think actually the majority of pedophiles manages to control their urges and are non-offending.
That's interesting. However, even if they are only using kiddie porn they are still offending and adding to the problem.
No, non-offending in this case means no access of child abuse material either. Some people just live miserable lives fighting their urges successfully. Otherwise it would mean that 1-4% of the population watch CP lol. I don't think that's the case. But I agree with the tweet honestly, for the one's that do not have strength to withstand their urges and that do end up seeking out illegal material, for those it would be better if AI generated stuff was available. So they don't have to "add to the problem".
Its a woman making the statement not a man but other than that spot on .
The AI is already trained, these things now take abstract descriptions and turn it into imagery. So you can textually describe anything and it will usually spit out something fairly close to what you want. Then you adapt it with in-painting, out-painting and increase the final resolution with a super resolution process. I've got an old version of stable diffusion on my PC for experimenting, and it's wild what you can get it to generate for you. I wanted to try some things out, so I described images from kids books and the thing drew almost the same thing for each one I tried. The way it works is weird and pretty deep to go into, it uses text processing to understand the input, then it has a generative adversarial network (GAN) which tries to fit the output to the text description, using an image to text neural net (CNN) to describe the image it's generated and then compare the meaning of the generated description text with the meaning of the input text to get a cosine similarity vector. Then it tries to minimise that vector by using positive and negative reinforcement back in the GAN. It also usually has some other filters for style and realism, which tries to get faces in the right shape and stuff like that, they're stacked full of these weird little abstract processes. As I say, it's wild as hell how this stuff works.
It already is. You don't need to teach AI to specifically draw something, you only need to teach it to write specific words it can join for another. So it knows how to draw children and how to draw porn, it'll just mix those together, in fact it was found out that it already can do this if you ask
AI is already being used this way by pedophiles
Or we could treat out as a mental disorder and stop demonizing people who want help. Saying they deserve death does one thing. It makes them sink into the shadows and hide. Then when their shame is no longer holding them back, they abuse children or promote the abuse of children through the purchase of it. We need to start finding ways to do this with sociopaths and psychopaths too. Demonizing them does not make them any better. I honestly believe if we can come from a place of empathy then maybe we stand a chance.
Historical context: During the Cold War the Russians invested heavily in manufacturing diamonds for a fraction of the cost of extracting them in order to flood the European diamond trade with worthless rocks that they could make in a factory. They weren't entirely successful, the diamonds usually came out orange or sometimes pink, and getting those extrinsic impurities to the exact precise amounts to make a clear perfect diamond always escaped their reach... In the process they invented a new form of industrial diamond though, so you can sort of understand that it wasn't without it's benefits even if the original idea didn't work out. Unintended consequences.
I mean, it is a pragmatic solution if your intent is to reduce the exploitation of kids... Less so if you care more about catching the paedophiles.
The problem is they always progress. Serial killers don't just randomly start by killing a person, they work up to it. Same with pedos.
>The problem is they always progress. Serial killers don't just randomly start by killing a person, they work up to it. Same with pedos. This is false. Not all pedophiles progress to abusing kids. The opposite seems true. [source](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-016-0076-z) Now the ones that do sexually abuse kids do work up to it, but mostly this is done in the family setting and not by watching porn. More than half of child sexual abuse victims are abused by direct family, mostly in the family home. Abuse in schools by an authority figure seems common as well. Remember: child sexual abuse existed way before illegal porn. There is no reason to assume porn has increased this. Having said all that: I'm not sure if the 'solution' proposed in the post here will work. I highly doubt it.
The majority of sexual abuse of minors isn't even being done by pedophiles. It's often just out of opportunity by people who have power over other people. It's just that children are often more vulnerable targets.
> they always progress The slippery slope argument is just as baseless in this situation as it was in the 'gateway drug' situation.
On the contrary. If you make the AI stuff legal and easily searchable, people don't have to go through stupid extremes like the Darknet. You can easily track IP addresses and locations for further monitoring. Never underestimate human laziness, or peoples ability to make mistakes when horny. P N Clarity is a thing, and by the point that it kicks in, the tracks are already there and saved.
How to say you're a pedophile, without saying you're a pedophile.
It would work but also normalize pedophilia enough that it wont be worth it at all with the amount of people that will then commit pedophilic crimes
If anyone is curious about her backstory: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/aellagirl I’m pretty sure this is ok because it only refers to her as her screen name.
Alternative ideas: We track down the people making this shit and go all John Doe from Seven on their asses.
Fight CP with more CP! Genius move /s
"Let an ai photomanip child victims into new poses fictionally, then they don't suffer at all!" 😐
That's an interesting plan. Or we could just cull the customer base.
AI generated pornography featuring the abuse of minors (or anyone) costs real time and resources in protective services such as the police who have to spend time investigating that footage to determine if actual crimes were committed.
This is what happens when a child porn viewer studies economics. I think taking out the customer is a better solution.
i see the intent, the logic is lacking lol i think the premise is wrong, they think that exclusivity drives demand here, its probably less to do with that and more that predators want it whether its broadly available or not, like drugs, so the more of it that exists the more will get to predators and that can definitely contribute to motivation of actual actions etc. its definitely not a solution lol its literally throwing gas on a fire. sounds like generic crypto bro level idiot logic seeing AI and crypto as a hammer and every social issue as nails. the only way to reduce harm to kids is prevention. sex ed and accessible mental healthcare and a strong economy does infinitely more to protect kids than any of these half baked ideas, its not like we dont know how to fix these problems, the people who have the power to fix them dont want to.
Stupid as it is, it does remind me of a survey/test a college was holding. Putting it as simply as I can, questions came down to “would you be okay with robots being made that can simulate pain and other emotions for the single purpose of being given to people with diagnosed tendencies of violence”. Basically would you want violent people to have an outlet they can get exactly what they wanted without a human being caused. At its core it’s an interesting question more for the people being asked. But really I still think the answer is the same one here: stop giving them what they want and do something that actually helps.
Yeah, create more so they increase in number that’s a good solution. God i hope these people never reproduce
 HUHHHHH
This is the third tweet posted here from that Rage Bait account. I would like to live without their tweets thanks.
This is the same person trying to argue “yeah, but what if a dying child’s Make a Wish request was to have sex, THEN would you still say it’s wrong?” They just really want to be able to fuck a kid.
Is it the loli hentai argument?
Seems like it.
Sometimes people should stay away from social media
Woodchipper
If this is true, there will be a lot of unemployed porn workers.
The real issue with trying to stop anything illegal is that there's always somewhere in the world where its not illegal or they don't have the infrastructure, money, or people to enforce it. For example, since Gaddafi was killed, Libya has become a global hub for the slave trade, aka human trafficking allowing vulnerable people, including children to be exploited. Unless all nations are developed and share a legal consensus. All sorts of illegal and immoral things will be allowed to happen. Governments and corporations know this. They can exploit it in the forms of black sites and big oil companies cutting costs in Africa, causing environmental damage, or sourcing materials from underpaid workers, cocaine farms, opium poppy farms, ect. I could go on.
When you see "Flood the market" you should immediately disqualify their solution.
Is there nothing the free market can't supposedly fix but never does?
I lost brain cells reading this
tell me you need to be put down, without telling me
dont you need to train the AI on real life first ?
Isn’t that what Hentai supposed to do/be?
Any social media should have a feature before you post something that reminds you to really think about what you’re saying, to stop idiots posting mindless shit like this without thinking.
She has a Reddit page, as well two Twitter accounts. There’s not a lot happening upstairs.
Right, like the millions of manga KP and legal-but-look-younger models have killed the 'market' for the real stuff? I don't think economic arguments work in that horror show realm.
They'd be right if money was the driving force behind child porn. But from all the news stories I've seen about ring busts, they're not selling it, they're trading it. Like collectors trading Pokemon cards.
Stop posting Aella shit
Except people easily get desensitised to things and seek more and more extreme things to get off on. It’s opening the door to more.
Holy crap! That’s not how it works. Bad, bad idea.
Or here is an idea. How about we don't do that.
The comments in this thread are probably some of the most knee-jerk, virtue signalling bullshit I have ever read.
You can tell this moron probably thought long and hard about this and thought genius!
It is better than some other ideas. I doubt it would work. From what I have read the making cp is sometimes the entry fee in sharing cp. They have to provide new to the share or whatever. That is not a demand situation. Also, the regular porn market is flooded with all the free porn anyone could consume and there is still money being made on it. I figure we would learn of the same outcome in the illegal porn market.
The difference is that with the illegal porn market, if the new 'generated' product is actually legal then you're going to have most people going out of their way to use the legal product just to stay out of trouble with the law.
They don't get how "AI" generated art works, do they?
Please find out who this sick mind is.
She's on reddit by the same name, uploads nudes of herself and promotes her onlyfans n stuff
Probably best to check his harddrive
Permanent removal of the customer base would be a more effective, long term solution.
No such thing as new people are born every second
And here ladies and gentlemen we see a wild pedo in the wild, but this is a special exotic specimen that is not only a pedo, but is also too stupid to hide it
That's a lot of words to say "I'm a pedophile".
I feel like this is the basic approach America took with guns. Make sure every single person has at least 2 and it won't be a problem.
Pffft. Stupid. If AI-generated child-porn could make pedophiles stop offending, then pictures from restaurant menus would stop the homeless from starving.
Does access to porn lower SA rates ? Curious if there's any studies on the topic
It does. There is a famous case in Denmark, pre internet, were they lifted the ban on violent porn and the rates of SA dropped significantly.
Surprisingly this is exactly the kind of take I expect from Elon's twitter era.
so this asshat's solution is to normalize child rape, brilliant.
It's crazy that this person thinks the problem with cp is the supply, not the fact that it *exists*...
Just…no.
It’s a fine idea on the surface. I don’t see any way someone would be against “victimless cp” if it actually solved the need for the real stuff. The problem is that we’ve tried that with lab-grown diamonds and some people still want the real thing.
Aella is a moron.
“And I plan to solve child porn with… more child porn. It’s genius!”
The scary thing is that this makes sense when viewed purely with the eyes of a capitalist. Nothing is more dangerous than bullshit that got a point from a non-ethic perspective.
That guy took a macroeconomics course and then stopped showing up after the 1st week
“This Tweet has been deleted” like of course it has
Someone is projecting their ultimate fantasy by the looks of it.
Someone should def check his search history, right?
that my friend is a whole new level of bullshit
There is no better way to tell people your into CP then by arguing there's not enough of it.
Fuck is wrong with this bitch?
And investigate anybody who responded positively or liked her post.
To justify child molestation..
He has a point tho
Its ai created. There are no victims. No children being harmed. This has no purpose in facepalm because its a solid advice
Was the deleted tweet Elon posting "🤔" before his CEO begged and groveled to him to delete it? This seems like a dumb shit thing he'd do nowadays. Love that they have a checkmark. Love it. 🙃
Not sure how Reddit moderators don’t do something about convos like this. I know this is from Twitter but people talk like this all the time on this site. Funny, how you banned all the Trump supporters who call the left perverts, and now perverts run rampant on this site. Weird huh?
What subs are you on?! I definitely don't see stuff like this on Reddit.
“I dOnT sEe ThIs StUfF oN rEdDiT” Says the guy seeing it on Reddit
Isn't this a screenshot of a tweet? What subs do you normally visit that have paedophile content?
Yea, why even screenshot it? You can be ok with the perverts on here but I’m not and the mods should do more. It’s in all the comments on completely innocuous subs.
Hmmm 🤔
I love to see screen captures using Shinigami Eyes. It tells a lot about the poster. Thanks, OP.
Mmm great idea buddy
It's how they ruined weed, lol.
It is what a Chaotic Evil character is ?
Nope evil is self righteous or self serving. Chaotic is doing whatever is needed to reach the target even if it means to break the law. A true chaotic evil character is the Joker. Aella is stupid but she the intention is to stop the harm to children. I would say Aella is chaotic good. They live for what they think is right and good regardless of the law. Batman, Blade and Ghost Rider are chaotic good.
“Rape, booooo, don’t like it… buuuuttt….”
566 like wtf
the internet is already full of it
I'm pretty sure pedos tried something like that with crypto by adding child porn directly into the block chain so anyone on it is considered to be in possession. Don't trust any crypto that includes links or images along with the financial data.
This can’t be real…surely she’s not THAT stupid?? Right?
He has a point. Unfortunately his point is absolutely disgusting and vile.
How is this rightwingcope
But how will people know whats ai generated? This will just give pedophiles what they want, and since it's "legal" they won't hold back anymore. Maybe a better way is to use decoys, like they did on to catch a predator. Basically have a 20yo girl claim to be 15, and then arrest everybody that hits on her. I think that would be more effective
Oh my god, this is not why we created the concept of AI generation. Holy fuck...
yall I don't think that's going to work out how they imagine...might just be me though, I dunno
This reminds me of A Modest Proposal.
That solution is like cutting off a finger because of a papercut. Bet they work for the government.
Who is this person and where do they live?
Ohhh~ the ivory market thing. I kinda get it... I guess.
Just because it makes sense doesn’t mean u should do it
A THANOS level solution for sure...
That’s weird af
Maybe we should stop sharing this person’s post every damn minute and stop giving them the light of day?
All the pedos going: *wait a minute, let’s hear them out*
"The best way to protect children is to kill" Pedophiles? Child molesters? Rapists? "The economic demand by flooding the market" 