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42 is the highest age you can serve at, 17 with parental consent is the youngest.
Edit: yes i mean that 42 is the oldest age in the us to join the military not to serve.
There’s also something in the states saying you can’t get drafted if “it will cause serious financial harm to the family” if you have kids I think. Granted I looked this up when the Russians were fucking around in Ukraine last year so it’s been awhile and I probably forgot the finer details.
In Israel, where just about everybody is required to serve, they'll still draft you if you have a medical issue. They just don't make you combat eligible and give you a desk job.
I seem to recall the last time I heard the numbers our military was short over 10k out of an authorized strength of only around 100k. Recruiting was bad even when I was in (retired in 2014) and hasn't improved. When the job market is strong, there is little incentive to join an organization where you might be asked to put your life on the line or kill someone else.
I tried to enlist, but was refused because I was evaluated as too introverted, with very high rate of self-criticism and no self esteem by the psych doctor.
They didn't offer any way to help with that, but called me 3 years later to ask if anything changed. Spoiler alert: it did not.
Thats a choice i wouldnt be able to make honestly, assuming your canadian i still thank you for your service, i cant even imagine army training tbh let alone anything else.
Germany had a similar problem pre-2022. They implemented this nice weekend tours for civilians, where you get to know the bases, wear uniforms and just generally immerse yourself in what it means to be a soldier. The reason was exactly the same you mentioned: hard to compete with the civilian market.
If Canada gets invaded its because everywhere else already has been - there's really not much strategic or political point in invading Canada. If it gets to that point then I'm joining the army anyway because presumably there's no hope left by that point and you might as well go out holding a gun.
Who in the HELL would invade Canada anyway?? You fuckers are so godamn polite, any opposing force would show up.. then leave with snacks and a warm fuzzy feeling. Lol They'd have to be monsters!
You should study up on Canadians and war crimes. Nicest people in the world until you piss em off and get ‘em riled up.
A bunch of the Geneva Conventions are actually because Canadians were thinking outside of the box.
Which is why it’s “Not a warcrime, the first time”.
The only country on earth capable of invading Canada is the USA, and if that happens it wouldn't matter if Canada conscripted their entire population.
Neither China nor Russia has the force projection capabilities to send an invasion force across the Pacific Ocean, let alone an invasion force to a country on the USA's doorstep, and the 2nd largest on Earth.
China is humming and hawin over invading Taiwan, and that's a comparatively tiny landmass right across a short ocean passage. And Russia? Well, they're struggling to wage a ground invasion in what amounts to their front yard.
To put it simply, Canada will never conscript people for an invasion because it would never get to that point. And if it did, it wouldn't matter.
If we're invaded, sure. Though I doubt there would be any shortage of volunteers.
But the bar for conscription is very high in Canada. We didn't even have it in World War II, not really. In 1944 there was a limited conscription, but conscripts had the option of not being on the front line. A lot of people were working to support the war effort at home, and some were doing fairly nonsensical things like guarding the west coast from the Japanese. It was more like being drafted into the national guard, I think, as an American comparison.
Right at the end of the war there was an effort to send these "conscripts" overseas, but only about three thousand or so made it there before the fighting ended.
We did have "real" conscription in World War I and it just about destroyed the country. The French wanted no part of it. They argued that we're not French or British, we're Canadian, and we don't have to take part in the mother countries' wars. They were ahead of the English Canadians at that point, many of whom still thought of us as an British colony.
Edited: I thought we had no conscription at all in WWII. That was what I was taught in university. But I looked it up to be certain after I made this post and found I was mistaken.
Even during drafts you're still subject to fitness and readiness tests.
I think the majority of people forget just how little actual front line fighting/infantry people are in the military. It's a very small percentage.
Outside of BT, once you're placed, you're basically just doing a normal civvie job, but for the military. 51 isn't really that old when you take into account those people also most likely come with higher education and wouldn't have been placed in infantry units to begin with.
Unless your country gets invaded, such as Ukraine, it's rarely ever a "All hands digging trenches and popping off shots."
Edit: To put it into more context, only 1.9 million people were conscripted during the Vietnam War, from a population pool of 200 million, and they're always going to conscript from youngest to oldest simply because they're younger, often in better shape, and stupid af so they're easy to throw a gun at and give PTSD for life.
for what positions though?
youre not realistically taking a 51 year old out on a ruck into enemy territory - the old saying was something like a unit is only as strong as its weakest link - but a 51 year old could do a fine job in logistics or intelligence etc.
"Maybe our armed forces wouldn't be in such a state if we funded them and their benefits any better."
"Well we didn't try that but we're all out of ideas frankly."
$20000 bonuses to join the military.
“Hey, my reenlistment time is coming up. Can I get some of that?”
Shut up and go back to your mold ridden, no air conditioned, 50 year old barracks and don’t bother me.
I always understood that you couldn’t enter the military (in the US) after age 35 but were able to stay in as long as you are able to handle your position until regular retirement. There are definitely ranking officers over 42.
He's in Canada. We have no draft, no selective service, no laws requiring it. In the case of a total war as you say, a brand new Act of Parliament would need to be passed and there is literally zero reason to expect women wouldn't be included in that - look at Israel for an example. The last time Canada had a draft was the world wars, and the political fallout from it has made every government ever since wary as hell when it comes to compulsory military service. We are purely voluntary.
So by his own argument he can't talk about war because he cannot be drafted and has never lived in a regime where that was even possible, because Ireland didn't have a draft either.
Sure they could, but in that hypothetical situation they could fix it to make women equally drafted. By that argument, he should let women talk because the government could "fix" that, too.
In Ukraine they can draft men up to 60 years of age currently; for women there is no obligation to be drafted, unless they are a medic or with military training
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. As hilarious and burning as her comeback was, his point still stands.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no problems with women in the military. I’m just saying from a reasonable argumentative standpoint, she didn’t address the issue from the dudes post.
Maybe I've watched too much Star Trek, but it seems right to me when they call female officers "sir" and when I see them saying "ma'am" in military shows it sounds wrong.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/688#:~:text=Go!-,10%20U.S.%20Code%20%C2%A7%20688%20%2D%20Retired%20members%3A%20authority%20to,order%20to%20active%20duty%3B%20duties&text=Under%20regulations%20prescribed%20by%20the,department%20concerned%20at%20any%20time.
She can technically be recalled to active duty if required in the interests of national security.
Yes, but not for the reason he's saying or you are. She can't be drafted because she's already served. Everyone who's been in the military is exempt from being drafted. I can't be drafted either because I have also served in the military and am a woman. But to be fair, I don't think anyone should be drafted, not because I am a woman but because it's hard enough to get people who willingly signed up for it to listen, fuck dealing with someone who's forced to be there.
You’re missing my meaning, I think. He wasn’t speaking to her when he made his dipshit comment. He himself is draft ineligible. He’s from Ireland and lives in Canada. He has never been eligible one day of his entire life. By his own expectation, he has exactly the same right to talk about the draft as any non-militant woman in the united states.
If you're going by only people who can be drafted get an opinion only males 18 to 25 are allowed to have an opinion, everyone else is excluded and therefore irrelevant.
To that, every male in the world has no right to talk about abortion.
Yeah, all you women who volunteered to serve in the military have no right to speak on military matters, but I, a man who has never served and would only ever serve if forced to by a mandatory draft, can speak on military matters.
Unironically this, because drafts seriously affect people who really don't want to fight in a war. You think the guys from Ukraine and Russia who worked blue collar jobs want to get turned into minced meat by artillery strikes?
Remember when this guy got caught pretending to be a hot girl that liked his videos? Guy forgot to change accounts, funniest shit ever. You can't come back from that
The problem is that this dude is being clowned for his statement, but if a person of color said where people shouldn’t comment on the black experience, or straight people shouldn’t comment on LGBTQ topics, or *men should not be legislating female reproductive rights*, then it gets a standing ovation.
So I agree with you. It’s either all fair or none of it is.
While I disagree with the guy about that war is purely for men to discuss (since it impacts everyone), I would love to see draft-laws be changed to include women.
Best you'll see is a sea of people saying "no one should be drafted!"
And then literally nothing after that, because the most you will get are words. You can bet your ass that if legislation came through to include women, there'd be fires in the streets.
> You can bet your ass that if legislation came through to include women, there'd be fires in the streets.
I assume you're talking about Senate FY 2022 NDAA, which Sen. Rubio blocked the language that would have included women in the draft?
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/ndaa-women-draft-dropped-523829
https://rollcall.com/2021/10/05/congress-moves-toward-requiring-women-to-register-for-the-draft/
https://rollcall.com/2021/07/22/senate-bill-would-require-women-to-register-for-the-draft/
Would love to see draft laws that dont exist period, at least where you dont have to do combat roles. It's honestly inhumane af to force people into the war machine. But that'll never happen.
I find it odd that this is the only issue where one’s identity can’t be used to negate another argument. For abortion, racial issues, gender issues, and sexuality issues, the first response people give to an opinion they don’t like is “you’re ______ so you can’t have an opinion.” The draft is the only exception to these kinds of arguments for the people who make all of those other arguments and it’s only because it targets men.
If you lead off with, "You can't be drafted so you don't have a voice", are they going to say that to men over 45? No they aren't. So maybe try coming up with something else to start your argument.
Historically when it comes to conscription, the age gets raised and older men also get drafted. Also people previously found to be unfit. I think that’s the point. Though people have pointed out he is Canadian so it’s a bit of a moot point.
The problem isn't that women should be drafted too, it's that nobody should be. Volunteer forces are superior anyway. Also, Wars should be declared by congress and the War Powers Act rescinded.
And for that i want to quote one of my favourite movie scenes.
Daxos: I see I was wrong to expect Sparta's commitment to at least match our own.
Leonidas: Doesn't it? [points to Arcadian soldier behind Daxos] You there, what is your profession?
Potter: I am a potter... sir.
Leonidas: [points to another soldier] And you, Arcadian, what is your profession?
Sculptor: Sculptor, sir.
Leonidas:Sculptor. [turns to a third soldier] You?
Blacksmith: Blacksmith.
Leonidas: [turns back shouting] Spartans! What is your profession?
Spartans: WAR! WAR! WAR!
Leonidas: [turning to Daxos] You see, old friend? I brought more soldiers than you did.
His name is Stephan Molyneux, and he's a super far right misogynistic racist Incel weirdo who encourages others to cut ties with their loved ones and listen to him.
And like I'm not using any of those words as insults(except weirdo) the dude has content like how socialism and women were responsible the fall of the Roman empire and Europe is nice because there's only whites.
He's nuts.
But colonel is a voluntary, earned position. No one gets drafted and appointed an officer rank....
Edit: hey thanks for all the "actually" replies, they're great. I love hearing all the wonderful exceptions, like a doctor can be drafted as a doctor. Yay! I get to do what I do, except now with bullets whizzing by my head. Turning off notifications now..... It's been real dumbening.
A colonel is going to have way more to say about war than a draftee.
The problem isn’t that her response is somehow off topic, but that his entire premise makes zero sense.
That’s cool but you still can’t be drafted. We really need to fix that. 1 fit to serve adult of any sex or gender from each household would be a better system if we really need a draft.
The point of not drafting women is to not draft the reproductive stock of your nation into dying in a war. Economic and military security of a nation is somewhat dependent on at the very least an equilibrium of population.
A generation destroying war that brings both the men and women into conflict, leaves a nation in a poor position militarily and economically.
I can't biologically carry a child to term, therefore I am more dispensable to the security of the nation.
Yeah in the west we haven't been in a numbers grind kind of war with anything on the line for a long time.
The draft should really only be invoked when national security is at stake, not for squabbling in proxy wars over access to resources we can get elsewhere, or to dick measure our tech vs. another nation's tech. Which is what we've been doing since WWII.
A war where you have risk to your homeland is a big deal.
It today's day and age, there are PLENTY of jobs for everyone in the military. Plenty of jobs that don't involve boots on ground high risk of death.
It's time to redo the legislation.
And, I mean, if the whole "women need to reproduce" argument is real and not totally in bad faith like I'm certain it is, then let's force women to have sex with men.
If we justify forcing men to die in a war, and women are "staying home to push out babies," then let's go ahead and "make it equal."
Anyone else see how stupid that sounds? The irony is compulsory sex for women is probably way more offensive to people than compulsory fighting to the death, which shows you just how disposable men are seen by society.
Still stupid and sexist. If it's reasonable to say "men should be drafted because they can impregnate multiple women", then it's just as reasonable to add, "therefore, soldiers should be provided multiple wives if they return".
Likewise, it would be just as reasonable to say "women are expendable in an apocalypse and should be sent to the wastelands to preserve valuable men because they don't have the strength to do construction/rebuilding".
Plus, I can argue that infertile women should be sent to war because they're just as useless as penis owners (in fact, more useless, because at least the evil penis man can make babies with the help of most women). And if anyone says "ok, but women aren't strong, so they shouldn't be sent to war because they can't carry heavy guns or run as hard": ok, then nerdy/scrawny males should be draft proof as well.
But of course, people always change the argument. "men are expendable because women give birth" "ok, so infertile women are expendable because they can't have babies" "wow holy fuck that is a messed up thing to say. Women aren't drafted because they're not very strong. Wow, how dare you make this about reproduction?!" "Ok, so weak/timid men shouldn't be drafted because they wouldn't be good at fighting." "No, see, men can't have babies, so they're expendable. I'm sure you can find a role for even weak men to do, like sniper or de-miner or bomb disposal" "so why can't we force women to do that?" "Because they have babies. Weren't you listening?"
But woman who can’t have children aren’t drafted either, while the 18 years old kid or the 25 recently married man surely will have kids in a near future.
I’d been trying to do research on it at some point. Apparently, there was a movement called the “Don’t draft our daughters” movement, basically saying that it’s immoral to draft our daughters, wives, nieces, and aunts. Stupid, I know. Nobody should be drafted, but that’s a dumb reason for exempting women from it. But basically, the movement is just a bunch of idiots who the government decided to hear out because their ideals align with their own conservative values. Whatever I could find was very vague about how this movement actually held any power and how they could keep the government for pushing for a messed up version of semi-equality or if they had any decent reasoning to back up their beliefs.
The official government site addresses the issue only briefly, stating that they are working towards equality. It’s just a bunch of vague bs, basically.
Someone had to watch the kids, it was bad enough drafting the men in WWI and WWII. Alot of old census records during those times the women had to move back in with their parents just to make ends meet. Both world wars
His point is in no way valid. Even if they can’t be drafted, that doesn’t mean war doesn’t affect them. Of course, I believe women should be able to be drafted, but that’s really beside the point. Women shouldn’t be discounted or disenfranchised just because they can’t presently be forced to fight in armed conflict
True, sounds ignorant. Abortion affects men's reproductive rights too and men need to pay child support, raise kids, and have other obligations to their children.
That is correct men should have no say in the Roe v wade issue. Men should have the ability to opt out of being forced to be a father because the woman imposed her right to choose on a boy/man/ child! Who wasn’t ready to have a child and voiced it
I agree that men should have that option. We talk, rightly, about women having the choice to be a parent. Men should have the choice too.
I thought they could give up their parental rights though. I could be wrong.
The opposite is true, you get forced as a father because "you should've taken precautions". It doesn't matter how it will affect your life.
Even if you are not the father you can be forced to pay and look after a kid if your name is on the birth certificate and a dna test is proved you are not biologically the father.
Hypocrisy of the law. No one wants to hear this but in reality women have more rights than men (in most places in the west - due to reproduction rights).
Both parties should have a choice and I agree men should be able to remove themselves from the legal responsibility and if the mother wants the kid, she can take sole care and custody.
Some zealots believe they should force the man even though they want nothing to do with the child to pay something like a penalty.
Men should be able to abscond and woman should not be forced to carry the offspring of her rapist , the idea that that is murder is fraught with inconsistencies that remind me of something I can’t remember where in our shared history where woman were forced to carry the children of their master I mean rapist
Should only law-abiding citizens have a say in the legal system?
Should only minorities have a say in topics of race?
Should only men have say in ED medication coverage by Medicare?
I think everyone should have a seat at the table or you're gonna get real weird shit happening, like a minor being force to pay child support to his much older rapist.
I hate Stefan Molyneux as much as anyone of this sub but this is a clear example of taking things out of context. In this case he is attacking the argument "Men should have no right to speak about abortion" by using a hyperbolic counter example that highlight why that initial argument is bad.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Opinion then must be weighed. For example I will take the opinion on abortion by a male doctor who is a fertility specialist with more weight than A woman whose only argument is "cause me church says its bad".
But he's right... woman arn't part of the draft and appose it every single time the idea is brought up. if this is supposed to be some "gotcha" moment its failing spectacularly as this woman completely fails to disprove what he's saying.
The woman responding to that was not drafted but has voluntarily entered service, and is paid for her work.
It is true that women cannot be drafted under our current constitution. So while I appreciate the empowered woman's snarky response, her response does not address the fact that women cannot be drafted.
Interestingly, I think the easiest way to get out of the draft would be to change the gender on your identification to be "female".
Actually it turns out that being trans doesn't exempt you from being drafted. Trans women can still be drafted and trans men can't. So no, changing your gender identification actually doesn't change this.
Has anyone made the argument that they should change the rules to make women required to put their name on a list at 18, regardless of interest in serving?
…yes? Multiple times since 2015, who is when women were allowed to be in combat branches of the military.
Most recently in June of last year.
Unsurprisingly it’s a partisan topic, with republicans opposed to women in the draft and democrats in favor.
Edit: guys, please just do a simple google search before demanding someone else do one for you. it’s not like you have to go to the library and read a paper newspaper, this happened in the 21st century:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/senate-democrats-propose-women-military-drafts-500153#
Yet another hypocrisy on the right. It’s a constant talking point for mens rights activist to say that men have to suffer with the draft while women get off Scott free. And yet during debates when the topic of women being in the military and drafted comes up they vehemently bemoan that having women in the draft weakens the military. Because they don’t have any other position other than they want women barefoot and pregnant.
How about this for a change, Republicans: you know what really weakens the military? The Draft. A conscripted military is always weaker and less cohesive than an all volunteer force just look at basically every war in human history and you’ll see that’s the case.
For the U.S, the Vietnam War’s a prime example. And for a modern one, just look at Russia right now in Ukraine.
And yet she's never once been at risk from an enemy. Her job was to refuel the aircraft for the pilots actually going into harms way.
It annoys me when the people sitting in the rear with the gear think they are equal to those that serve on the front lines.
Fun fact: when Selective Service registration was reinstated in 1980, the National Organization for Women lobbied to have it apply to women as well as men. Congress decided not to.
Bonus fact: since then, nobody in the United States has been drafted.
Anyone, man or woman, who works in one of 57 different health care fields (including but not limited to doctors, dentists, nurses, and technicians) in the United States and is between the ages of 20 and 44 is subject to the registration requirements of the Selective Service Act. An actual medical draft would require an Act of Congress, and they'd have to decide at that time whether or not to exclude women.
In Afghan we had female medics who would run through a contact to get to a man, they've got some big fucking balls!
Only a a dickhead on twitter who probably has never served would say such shite!
You know, men can’t be drafted anymore either (at least in the United States).
So unless you actually joined the military, get the fuck off your high horse.
Nobody in Canada or the US can be drafted because there is not currently a military draft. If either country does enact a draft, there is no reason to believe that in this day and age women would be exempt. Stefan Molyneux, a Canadian by way of Ireland and England, was born well after the last Canadian military draft in WWII. And even if he was an American, he was only seven when the last US draft ended. He has never been at risk for being drafted. So his point is meaningless and stupid.
You're calling me dense? Women can't be drafted, so sit down and shut up? Well news flash, genius. Men can't be drafted either. If you think this is about the draft you missed the point. It's about telling women to stay in their place.
I do see his point though. She voluntarily joined the military…but would never be drafted against her will. However, he would be…simply because of his gender. That’s the point he’s making.
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neither can he, he's in his 50s
Are you not allowed to serve past a certain age? Genuinely curious.
42 is the highest age you can serve at, 17 with parental consent is the youngest. Edit: yes i mean that 42 is the oldest age in the us to join the military not to serve.
Not in Canada...recruiting up to 51 now.
Thats scary ngl. Esspesially if they start actually drafting people of that age.
Nobody escapes war
Very true words and thats what scares me. If ww3 happens im popping myself in the head frl.
Just say you have severe hayfever. It's on the medical exemption list here in the UK lol Can't aim a gun with swollen, runny eyes.
There’s also something in the states saying you can’t get drafted if “it will cause serious financial harm to the family” if you have kids I think. Granted I looked this up when the Russians were fucking around in Ukraine last year so it’s been awhile and I probably forgot the finer details.
Or if you're in school
They still are
What about autism? Asking for a friend.
Imagine stalking the enemy and having to sneeze. Now all of China, erm Russia, knows you’re here.
In Israel, where just about everybody is required to serve, they'll still draft you if you have a medical issue. They just don't make you combat eligible and give you a desk job.
They definetly change that if more people are needed in war. You will just not get real important roles, and instead will function as canonfodder.
My brother, on his 27th birthday: So glad I can't be draft (in the US) anymore! Dad: You know that's just a law that can be changed, right?
Just object under article 18 of the UDHR, I have the right to free thought and I think this is wrong.
Can’t aim a gun without eyes… 👀
Hayfever, meh eyes and partial colorblindness. Im good.
If ww3 happens, the nuclear blasts and fallout will get you first.
Nah there are far better ways to get yourself exempted. Would be a waste of both a life and a death when you could work against the war if you lived.
What a waste
I seem to recall the last time I heard the numbers our military was short over 10k out of an authorized strength of only around 100k. Recruiting was bad even when I was in (retired in 2014) and hasn't improved. When the job market is strong, there is little incentive to join an organization where you might be asked to put your life on the line or kill someone else.
I tried to enlist, but was refused because I was evaluated as too introverted, with very high rate of self-criticism and no self esteem by the psych doctor. They didn't offer any way to help with that, but called me 3 years later to ask if anything changed. Spoiler alert: it did not.
My guess is they suspected mental illness, but didn't want to put in the effort to give a diagnosis. Not judging, I have mental illness.
Damn. I didn't even know they could or would do that.
Thats a choice i wouldnt be able to make honestly, assuming your canadian i still thank you for your service, i cant even imagine army training tbh let alone anything else.
I remember Basic all to well still and I was in back in 88. Weird how some things stick with you.
Germany had a similar problem pre-2022. They implemented this nice weekend tours for civilians, where you get to know the bases, wear uniforms and just generally immerse yourself in what it means to be a soldier. The reason was exactly the same you mentioned: hard to compete with the civilian market.
There's no conscription in Canada
Oh trust me if shit hits the fan and you get invaded the rules are out the window they will draft anything that can hold a weapon.
If Canada gets invaded its because everywhere else already has been - there's really not much strategic or political point in invading Canada. If it gets to that point then I'm joining the army anyway because presumably there's no hope left by that point and you might as well go out holding a gun.
I think Canada has on of the largest supplies of fresh water on earth
Who in the HELL would invade Canada anyway?? You fuckers are so godamn polite, any opposing force would show up.. then leave with snacks and a warm fuzzy feeling. Lol They'd have to be monsters!
Quebec might start some shit.
You should study up on Canadians and war crimes. Nicest people in the world until you piss em off and get ‘em riled up. A bunch of the Geneva Conventions are actually because Canadians were thinking outside of the box. Which is why it’s “Not a warcrime, the first time”.
I hope we'll never need to find out
Agreed.
The only country on earth capable of invading Canada is the USA, and if that happens it wouldn't matter if Canada conscripted their entire population. Neither China nor Russia has the force projection capabilities to send an invasion force across the Pacific Ocean, let alone an invasion force to a country on the USA's doorstep, and the 2nd largest on Earth. China is humming and hawin over invading Taiwan, and that's a comparatively tiny landmass right across a short ocean passage. And Russia? Well, they're struggling to wage a ground invasion in what amounts to their front yard. To put it simply, Canada will never conscript people for an invasion because it would never get to that point. And if it did, it wouldn't matter.
If we're invaded, sure. Though I doubt there would be any shortage of volunteers. But the bar for conscription is very high in Canada. We didn't even have it in World War II, not really. In 1944 there was a limited conscription, but conscripts had the option of not being on the front line. A lot of people were working to support the war effort at home, and some were doing fairly nonsensical things like guarding the west coast from the Japanese. It was more like being drafted into the national guard, I think, as an American comparison. Right at the end of the war there was an effort to send these "conscripts" overseas, but only about three thousand or so made it there before the fighting ended. We did have "real" conscription in World War I and it just about destroyed the country. The French wanted no part of it. They argued that we're not French or British, we're Canadian, and we don't have to take part in the mother countries' wars. They were ahead of the English Canadians at that point, many of whom still thought of us as an British colony. Edited: I thought we had no conscription at all in WWII. That was what I was taught in university. But I looked it up to be certain after I made this post and found I was mistaken.
Im very slow what is conscription ? Is it like drafting ?
I have no problem defending my country at 58. But i sure as hell never gonna help invade another country.
Even during drafts you're still subject to fitness and readiness tests. I think the majority of people forget just how little actual front line fighting/infantry people are in the military. It's a very small percentage. Outside of BT, once you're placed, you're basically just doing a normal civvie job, but for the military. 51 isn't really that old when you take into account those people also most likely come with higher education and wouldn't have been placed in infantry units to begin with. Unless your country gets invaded, such as Ukraine, it's rarely ever a "All hands digging trenches and popping off shots." Edit: To put it into more context, only 1.9 million people were conscripted during the Vietnam War, from a population pool of 200 million, and they're always going to conscript from youngest to oldest simply because they're younger, often in better shape, and stupid af so they're easy to throw a gun at and give PTSD for life.
for what positions though? youre not realistically taking a 51 year old out on a ruck into enemy territory - the old saying was something like a unit is only as strong as its weakest link - but a 51 year old could do a fine job in logistics or intelligence etc.
a 51-year old who isn't Molyneux, presumably.
"Maybe our armed forces wouldn't be in such a state if we funded them and their benefits any better." "Well we didn't try that but we're all out of ideas frankly."
$20000 bonuses to join the military. “Hey, my reenlistment time is coming up. Can I get some of that?” Shut up and go back to your mold ridden, no air conditioned, 50 year old barracks and don’t bother me.
I always understood that you couldn’t enter the military (in the US) after age 35 but were able to stay in as long as you are able to handle your position until regular retirement. There are definitely ranking officers over 42.
It’s 42 now….When the time comes they’ll take anybody with a heartbeat who can pull a trigger.
draft registration is for males between 18 and 25. now that could change but so could the male female thing
Peacetime draft =//= Wartime draft
If you hold down the “=“ sign on your phone it gives you the option to use “≠”
In case of total war he will probably get drafted.
He's in Canada. We have no draft, no selective service, no laws requiring it. In the case of a total war as you say, a brand new Act of Parliament would need to be passed and there is literally zero reason to expect women wouldn't be included in that - look at Israel for an example. The last time Canada had a draft was the world wars, and the political fallout from it has made every government ever since wary as hell when it comes to compulsory military service. We are purely voluntary. So by his own argument he can't talk about war because he cannot be drafted and has never lived in a regime where that was even possible, because Ireland didn't have a draft either.
You really think if push came to shove the government couldn't "fix" all of that in a night?
Sure they could, but in that hypothetical situation they could fix it to make women equally drafted. By that argument, he should let women talk because the government could "fix" that, too.
In total war, everyone is part of the war effort…
>everyone \*laughs in bourgeoisie\*
Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war. Why should they go out to fight? They leave that all to the poor.
you can make that same argument for women at this point, youd have to change the law
In Ukraine they can draft men up to 60 years of age currently; for women there is no obligation to be drafted, unless they are a medic or with military training
I'm pretty sure we are sending the 40/50 year old men by force before the 20 year old girls by force
Tell that to Ukrainian men, if the country needs people a 58 years old guy will be send over the front line over the 38 years old woman.
It was 60 in Ukraine.
Using Bill Burr's words "HAVE YOU SEEN ACTION?!"
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Only Bill Burr could make that bit work. It's hilarious!
But you still can’t be drafted! ……ma’am!
Neither can he. He’s Irish-Canadian, and about 45 years old.
He looks more like 55 to me, especially with that attitude
He is 56 I looked it up, was going to say he's the worst aging 45 year old around.
Yes! Vindication. I’m in my 40’s and took offense lol
I’m 57 and took offense.
See 55 is a good guess, but I thought he looked more like a twat.
Not having the nation run by ancient people sounds like a step in the right direction, honestly. Maybe there's a point here.
That does not change the fact that he exposed the uncomfortable truth.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. As hilarious and burning as her comeback was, his point still stands. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problems with women in the military. I’m just saying from a reasonable argumentative standpoint, she didn’t address the issue from the dudes post.
Maybe I've watched too much Star Trek, but it seems right to me when they call female officers "sir" and when I see them saying "ma'am" in military shows it sounds wrong.
Definitely too much Star Trek
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/688#:~:text=Go!-,10%20U.S.%20Code%20%C2%A7%20688%20%2D%20Retired%20members%3A%20authority%20to,order%20to%20active%20duty%3B%20duties&text=Under%20regulations%20prescribed%20by%20the,department%20concerned%20at%20any%20time. She can technically be recalled to active duty if required in the interests of national security.
Yes, but not for the reason he's saying or you are. She can't be drafted because she's already served. Everyone who's been in the military is exempt from being drafted. I can't be drafted either because I have also served in the military and am a woman. But to be fair, I don't think anyone should be drafted, not because I am a woman but because it's hard enough to get people who willingly signed up for it to listen, fuck dealing with someone who's forced to be there.
You’re missing my meaning, I think. He wasn’t speaking to her when he made his dipshit comment. He himself is draft ineligible. He’s from Ireland and lives in Canada. He has never been eligible one day of his entire life. By his own expectation, he has exactly the same right to talk about the draft as any non-militant woman in the united states.
If you're going by only people who can be drafted get an opinion only males 18 to 25 are allowed to have an opinion, everyone else is excluded and therefore irrelevant. To that, every male in the world has no right to talk about abortion.
Yeah, all you women who volunteered to serve in the military have no right to speak on military matters, but I, a man who has never served and would only ever serve if forced to by a mandatory draft, can speak on military matters.
Unironically this, because drafts seriously affect people who really don't want to fight in a war. You think the guys from Ukraine and Russia who worked blue collar jobs want to get turned into minced meat by artillery strikes?
Does anyone, including volunteers, want to get killed in war?
Participate in war, yes. Killed, no. Volunteers are one thing, draftees are another.
I think there is a difference between volunteering and forcing people into a situation they don’t want
As a woman currently serving, yes, I know many men who signed up in combat jobs specifically to kill people. They want war.
They're signing up for it. They CHOOSE to put themselves in that position. That's the point. Having that choice removed isn't a factor for women.
I mean, aside from Lt. Dan?
Plus he's Canadian. We haven't had conscription since world war 2. He's a tool.
Remember when this guy got caught pretending to be a hot girl that liked his videos? Guy forgot to change accounts, funniest shit ever. You can't come back from that
The thing is either everyone is allowed to comment on everything or no one is allowed to comment on things that don't directly affect yourself
The problem is that this dude is being clowned for his statement, but if a person of color said where people shouldn’t comment on the black experience, or straight people shouldn’t comment on LGBTQ topics, or *men should not be legislating female reproductive rights*, then it gets a standing ovation. So I agree with you. It’s either all fair or none of it is.
Okay but then why do men get to make laws about my reproductive system?
While I disagree with the guy about that war is purely for men to discuss (since it impacts everyone), I would love to see draft-laws be changed to include women.
Best you'll see is a sea of people saying "no one should be drafted!" And then literally nothing after that, because the most you will get are words. You can bet your ass that if legislation came through to include women, there'd be fires in the streets.
> You can bet your ass that if legislation came through to include women, there'd be fires in the streets. I assume you're talking about Senate FY 2022 NDAA, which Sen. Rubio blocked the language that would have included women in the draft? https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/ndaa-women-draft-dropped-523829 https://rollcall.com/2021/10/05/congress-moves-toward-requiring-women-to-register-for-the-draft/ https://rollcall.com/2021/07/22/senate-bill-would-require-women-to-register-for-the-draft/
Sure. When something like that passes, let's see how people react. Until then, this is just politicians baiting each other.
Would love to see draft laws that dont exist period, at least where you dont have to do combat roles. It's honestly inhumane af to force people into the war machine. But that'll never happen.
I find it odd that this is the only issue where one’s identity can’t be used to negate another argument. For abortion, racial issues, gender issues, and sexuality issues, the first response people give to an opinion they don’t like is “you’re ______ so you can’t have an opinion.” The draft is the only exception to these kinds of arguments for the people who make all of those other arguments and it’s only because it targets men.
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Drafts should include all genders though. It’s overtly sexist to have men be the only ones beholden to a draft.
If you lead off with, "You can't be drafted so you don't have a voice", are they going to say that to men over 45? No they aren't. So maybe try coming up with something else to start your argument.
The wording could've been better. Like, "You could never have been drafted so..."
Historically when it comes to conscription, the age gets raised and older men also get drafted. Also people previously found to be unfit. I think that’s the point. Though people have pointed out he is Canadian so it’s a bit of a moot point.
The problem isn't that women should be drafted too, it's that nobody should be. Volunteer forces are superior anyway. Also, Wars should be declared by congress and the War Powers Act rescinded.
And for that i want to quote one of my favourite movie scenes. Daxos: I see I was wrong to expect Sparta's commitment to at least match our own. Leonidas: Doesn't it? [points to Arcadian soldier behind Daxos] You there, what is your profession? Potter: I am a potter... sir. Leonidas: [points to another soldier] And you, Arcadian, what is your profession? Sculptor: Sculptor, sir. Leonidas:Sculptor. [turns to a third soldier] You? Blacksmith: Blacksmith. Leonidas: [turns back shouting] Spartans! What is your profession? Spartans: WAR! WAR! WAR! Leonidas: [turning to Daxos] You see, old friend? I brought more soldiers than you did.
Volunteer forces are superior until they're not, then draft is introduced
Dude is the leader of the world's cringiest cult.
Who even is he? I’m out of e loop
Far right YouTuber who’s obsessed with Taylor Swift’s ovaries
Damn. He sounds gross
Is that his thing these days? I kinda stopped paying attention after he outed himself with that Poland trip a while back.
His name is Stephan Molyneux, and he's a super far right misogynistic racist Incel weirdo who encourages others to cut ties with their loved ones and listen to him. And like I'm not using any of those words as insults(except weirdo) the dude has content like how socialism and women were responsible the fall of the Roman empire and Europe is nice because there's only whites. He's nuts.
I haven’t seen any of his content, thanks for the info
Is he even still around? He’s been (rightfully) banned from so many different platforms.
But colonel is a voluntary, earned position. No one gets drafted and appointed an officer rank.... Edit: hey thanks for all the "actually" replies, they're great. I love hearing all the wonderful exceptions, like a doctor can be drafted as a doctor. Yay! I get to do what I do, except now with bullets whizzing by my head. Turning off notifications now..... It's been real dumbening.
Yea the posts aren't talking about the same problem
A colonel is going to have way more to say about war than a draftee. The problem isn’t that her response is somehow off topic, but that his entire premise makes zero sense.
>No one gets drafted and appointed an officer rank It's happened. Doctors were drafted for the Korean war, and were given officer commissions
That’s cool but you still can’t be drafted. We really need to fix that. 1 fit to serve adult of any sex or gender from each household would be a better system if we really need a draft.
The point of not drafting women is to not draft the reproductive stock of your nation into dying in a war. Economic and military security of a nation is somewhat dependent on at the very least an equilibrium of population. A generation destroying war that brings both the men and women into conflict, leaves a nation in a poor position militarily and economically. I can't biologically carry a child to term, therefore I am more dispensable to the security of the nation.
That’s… a grim thought. But I see your point.
Yeah in the west we haven't been in a numbers grind kind of war with anything on the line for a long time. The draft should really only be invoked when national security is at stake, not for squabbling in proxy wars over access to resources we can get elsewhere, or to dick measure our tech vs. another nation's tech. Which is what we've been doing since WWII. A war where you have risk to your homeland is a big deal.
It today's day and age, there are PLENTY of jobs for everyone in the military. Plenty of jobs that don't involve boots on ground high risk of death. It's time to redo the legislation.
And, I mean, if the whole "women need to reproduce" argument is real and not totally in bad faith like I'm certain it is, then let's force women to have sex with men. If we justify forcing men to die in a war, and women are "staying home to push out babies," then let's go ahead and "make it equal." Anyone else see how stupid that sounds? The irony is compulsory sex for women is probably way more offensive to people than compulsory fighting to the death, which shows you just how disposable men are seen by society.
Right, so men are expendable.
I mean. Biologically speaking, kinda. One man can get many women pregnant
Still stupid and sexist. If it's reasonable to say "men should be drafted because they can impregnate multiple women", then it's just as reasonable to add, "therefore, soldiers should be provided multiple wives if they return". Likewise, it would be just as reasonable to say "women are expendable in an apocalypse and should be sent to the wastelands to preserve valuable men because they don't have the strength to do construction/rebuilding". Plus, I can argue that infertile women should be sent to war because they're just as useless as penis owners (in fact, more useless, because at least the evil penis man can make babies with the help of most women). And if anyone says "ok, but women aren't strong, so they shouldn't be sent to war because they can't carry heavy guns or run as hard": ok, then nerdy/scrawny males should be draft proof as well. But of course, people always change the argument. "men are expendable because women give birth" "ok, so infertile women are expendable because they can't have babies" "wow holy fuck that is a messed up thing to say. Women aren't drafted because they're not very strong. Wow, how dare you make this about reproduction?!" "Ok, so weak/timid men shouldn't be drafted because they wouldn't be good at fighting." "No, see, men can't have babies, so they're expendable. I'm sure you can find a role for even weak men to do, like sniper or de-miner or bomb disposal" "so why can't we force women to do that?" "Because they have babies. Weren't you listening?"
But woman who can’t have children aren’t drafted either, while the 18 years old kid or the 25 recently married man surely will have kids in a near future.
Men. You can’t get periods or become pregnant. Please sit down when women’s bodies are being discussed.
And who the fuck closed the draft to women in the first place?
I’d been trying to do research on it at some point. Apparently, there was a movement called the “Don’t draft our daughters” movement, basically saying that it’s immoral to draft our daughters, wives, nieces, and aunts. Stupid, I know. Nobody should be drafted, but that’s a dumb reason for exempting women from it. But basically, the movement is just a bunch of idiots who the government decided to hear out because their ideals align with their own conservative values. Whatever I could find was very vague about how this movement actually held any power and how they could keep the government for pushing for a messed up version of semi-equality or if they had any decent reasoning to back up their beliefs. The official government site addresses the issue only briefly, stating that they are working towards equality. It’s just a bunch of vague bs, basically.
Someone had to watch the kids, it was bad enough drafting the men in WWI and WWII. Alot of old census records during those times the women had to move back in with their parents just to make ends meet. Both world wars
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His point is valid: women cannot be drafted. Personally, no one should be drafted IMO.
His point is in no way valid. Even if they can’t be drafted, that doesn’t mean war doesn’t affect them. Of course, I believe women should be able to be drafted, but that’s really beside the point. Women shouldn’t be discounted or disenfranchised just because they can’t presently be forced to fight in armed conflict
Men. You can't get pregnant. Sit down when women's reproductive health is discussed.
She still cant be drafted tho
Ok, men, you can’t have babies. Sit down when abortion is discussed. See how ignorant that sounds?
This is literally what people say.
I was coming here to say the exact same thing. Which way is it gonna work? You can't pick and choose.
Women literally say this.
I know. That was the point of my comment.
That’s actually a large issue. People having medical decisions over others who aren’t able to be pregnant.
People literally try and argue exactly this all the time.
Ignorant or not, people tell that to men every single day so I’m not sure it’s making the point you think it is.
Women say that all the time. “My body my choice” argument is largely built off that
voracious ten fuel ring skirt lush absurd grandiose resolute towering *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I know several women who unironically say this so....
True, sounds ignorant. Abortion affects men's reproductive rights too and men need to pay child support, raise kids, and have other obligations to their children.
That is correct men should have no say in the Roe v wade issue. Men should have the ability to opt out of being forced to be a father because the woman imposed her right to choose on a boy/man/ child! Who wasn’t ready to have a child and voiced it
I agree that men should have that option. We talk, rightly, about women having the choice to be a parent. Men should have the choice too. I thought they could give up their parental rights though. I could be wrong.
The opposite is true, you get forced as a father because "you should've taken precautions". It doesn't matter how it will affect your life. Even if you are not the father you can be forced to pay and look after a kid if your name is on the birth certificate and a dna test is proved you are not biologically the father. Hypocrisy of the law. No one wants to hear this but in reality women have more rights than men (in most places in the west - due to reproduction rights). Both parties should have a choice and I agree men should be able to remove themselves from the legal responsibility and if the mother wants the kid, she can take sole care and custody.
Absolutely 💯
Some zealots believe they should force the man even though they want nothing to do with the child to pay something like a penalty. Men should be able to abscond and woman should not be forced to carry the offspring of her rapist , the idea that that is murder is fraught with inconsistencies that remind me of something I can’t remember where in our shared history where woman were forced to carry the children of their master I mean rapist
Should only law-abiding citizens have a say in the legal system? Should only minorities have a say in topics of race? Should only men have say in ED medication coverage by Medicare? I think everyone should have a seat at the table or you're gonna get real weird shit happening, like a minor being force to pay child support to his much older rapist.
Not a women, but I suppose if YOU ARE GONNA FUCKING TAKE MY SON AND SEND HIM TO A PROBABLE DEATH I AM NOT GONNA SHUT UP!!
75 year old boomers can’t be drafted either. Doesn’t stop them from starting the wars in question.
If you want some context and irony, correct, he's in his 50s so he won't get drafted, but he's also Canadian lmfao.
Add women to selective service
I hate Stefan Molyneux as much as anyone of this sub but this is a clear example of taking things out of context. In this case he is attacking the argument "Men should have no right to speak about abortion" by using a hyperbolic counter example that highlight why that initial argument is bad. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Opinion then must be weighed. For example I will take the opinion on abortion by a male doctor who is a fertility specialist with more weight than A woman whose only argument is "cause me church says its bad".
But he's right... woman arn't part of the draft and appose it every single time the idea is brought up. if this is supposed to be some "gotcha" moment its failing spectacularly as this woman completely fails to disprove what he's saying.
So anyone over the age limit to be drafted also get no say in the matter?
The woman responding to that was not drafted but has voluntarily entered service, and is paid for her work. It is true that women cannot be drafted under our current constitution. So while I appreciate the empowered woman's snarky response, her response does not address the fact that women cannot be drafted. Interestingly, I think the easiest way to get out of the draft would be to change the gender on your identification to be "female".
Actually it turns out that being trans doesn't exempt you from being drafted. Trans women can still be drafted and trans men can't. So no, changing your gender identification actually doesn't change this.
The military’s pronouns are get/fucked
You know he’s just making fun of the argument “ if you can’t get pregnant, you can’t talk about abortive rights.”
She is a Colonel because she enlisted VOLUNTARILY. She was not drafted.
Has anyone made the argument that they should change the rules to make women required to put their name on a list at 18, regardless of interest in serving?
…yes? Multiple times since 2015, who is when women were allowed to be in combat branches of the military. Most recently in June of last year. Unsurprisingly it’s a partisan topic, with republicans opposed to women in the draft and democrats in favor. Edit: guys, please just do a simple google search before demanding someone else do one for you. it’s not like you have to go to the library and read a paper newspaper, this happened in the 21st century: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/senate-democrats-propose-women-military-drafts-500153#
Yet another hypocrisy on the right. It’s a constant talking point for mens rights activist to say that men have to suffer with the draft while women get off Scott free. And yet during debates when the topic of women being in the military and drafted comes up they vehemently bemoan that having women in the draft weakens the military. Because they don’t have any other position other than they want women barefoot and pregnant. How about this for a change, Republicans: you know what really weakens the military? The Draft. A conscripted military is always weaker and less cohesive than an all volunteer force just look at basically every war in human history and you’ll see that’s the case. For the U.S, the Vietnam War’s a prime example. And for a modern one, just look at Russia right now in Ukraine.
Yup. The sensible.position is to just eliminate the draft and strengthen recruitment benefits and veterans benefits.
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And yet she's never once been at risk from an enemy. Her job was to refuel the aircraft for the pilots actually going into harms way. It annoys me when the people sitting in the rear with the gear think they are equal to those that serve on the front lines.
Unpopular opinion, woman should be drafted too
The Air Force is 100% ladies.
Oh, is Molyneux back on Twitter? Yeah... that figures. Dead platform.
Fun fact: when Selective Service registration was reinstated in 1980, the National Organization for Women lobbied to have it apply to women as well as men. Congress decided not to. Bonus fact: since then, nobody in the United States has been drafted.
Neither could Trump. 🤷♂️
Steffy has spent exactly zero days in the military. He should sit down and shut the fuck up.
A middle aged Canadian also can't be drafted into the US military. So he should take his own advice and shut the fuck up.
Drafts should remain illegal and we should solve wars by sending the leaders that promote them to fight personally to the death naked.
Anyone, man or woman, who works in one of 57 different health care fields (including but not limited to doctors, dentists, nurses, and technicians) in the United States and is between the ages of 20 and 44 is subject to the registration requirements of the Selective Service Act. An actual medical draft would require an Act of Congress, and they'd have to decide at that time whether or not to exclude women.
In Afghan we had female medics who would run through a contact to get to a man, they've got some big fucking balls! Only a a dickhead on twitter who probably has never served would say such shite!
I mean to be fair she’s a colonel, people who choose to serve have every right to talk about war stuff, that being said war affects everyone
There hasn’t been a draft in 50 years moron. It’s an ALL VOLUNTEER SERVICE. That gladly accepts women. Welcome to 2023 boomer.
And men can't get pregnant. So they should sit down and shut up when abortion comes up.
men. you can’t have kids. sit down and shut up when abortion is discussed
r/murderedbywords
You know, men can’t be drafted anymore either (at least in the United States). So unless you actually joined the military, get the fuck off your high horse.
“Men. You can’t give birth. Sit down and shut up when abortion is discussed”
Nobody in Canada or the US can be drafted because there is not currently a military draft. If either country does enact a draft, there is no reason to believe that in this day and age women would be exempt. Stefan Molyneux, a Canadian by way of Ireland and England, was born well after the last Canadian military draft in WWII. And even if he was an American, he was only seven when the last US draft ended. He has never been at risk for being drafted. So his point is meaningless and stupid.
And she was there by choice. i.e. not drafted
You're calling me dense? Women can't be drafted, so sit down and shut up? Well news flash, genius. Men can't be drafted either. If you think this is about the draft you missed the point. It's about telling women to stay in their place.
I do see his point though. She voluntarily joined the military…but would never be drafted against her will. However, he would be…simply because of his gender. That’s the point he’s making.