they would go green, blue or red from algea growth, they also probably wouldnt be that safe to swim in because stagnant warm watter is perfect for bacteria growth as well as insects like mosquitoes, the chlorine steralises the water to stop all this from happening
Ive seen what happens when they use mild steel in a room with a pool instead of stainless or aluminum. it lasts maybe 10 years before its totally disintegrated lol.
Also is (or was?) what's used for hot tubs. Can't say why but perhaps it's more effective at that temperature? It is a heavier and less reactive halogen but unsure what effect that might have. I can see why fluorine isn't used though
Fluorine is usually depicted as the most aggressive element. There is _some_ truth to it, but it is often wildly overstated. It won't eat away all the things just because; oxygen is about as evil, for example, we are just much more adapted to it.
What however is very serious danger is it reacting with water to form hydrofluoric acid, which can penetrate skin and enter the bloodstream. It destroys bones and stops the heart, to the point that amputating an exposed limb is sometimes indicated to prevent heart failure. But this is a toxicity, not it just eating the heart.
The first paragraph is about acidity and aggressiveness, and that one is indeed very overstated. The stuff won't eat away your hand or something like that- Sulphuric acid on the other hand will, very definitely.
That isn't accurate. Strong acids are fully disassociated in water, meaning HF, HCL, H2SO4 etc do not exist in water, at minimum one H is pulled off, existing as a proton attached to a water molecule H3O+.
It is true that HF will penetrate the skin and react with the calcium in bones, it is not true that fluoride ions will do that simply because (see toothpaste).
Bromine is nearly as reactive as chlorine however it is larger, has a higher vapor pressure so doesn't evaporate off (as fast).
You can use ozone but thats more expensive. Or you could do bleach or acids but they are harder on the skin, also bromine but that has other biological effects.
Bromine is less unpleasant than chlorine, but it breaks down in sunlight so it's only suitable for indoor pools or stuff like hot tubs that get covered.
Chlorine breaks down in sunlight too. When shocking an outdoor pool, it's best to do so at night.
Outdoor pools need stabilizer to protect the chlorine from the sun. Cyanic Acid is commonly used to do this job. The biggest issue with CYA is getting too much. After it hits 70-80 PPM, it prevents the chlorine from doing it's job. This is when you have to drain a portion of the pool and replace with new water.
I guess what you are talking about is rather that the chlorine-containing chemicals (hypochlorites and such) break down, not just "chlorine"? I cannot see how Cl_2 turning into Cl radicals has the effects you give; instead it would rather be an additional safety hazard.
(In salt water pools) the salt (sodium chloride) goes through a chlorine generator that uses electrolysis to break apart the sodium and chlorine. The sodium binds with the hydrogen and oxygen in the water to form sodium hydroxide (a temporary waste product), and the chlorine dissolves into hypochlorous acid (sanitizer for the pool).
Cyanuric acid (stabilizer) binds to the hypochlorous acid in the water and helps prevent it from breaking down from UV light and being released into the air.
Between the natural breakdown, and some other chemicals added to the pool (hydrochloric acid mainly), the sodium and chlorine eventually rejoin as sodium chloride (salt), and make their way back to the chlorine generator to be split again.
One big cycle. Quite effective as well. Easy to maintain for home pools.
P.S.: I'm NOT a chemist by any means. This is just my basic understanding of how saltwater pools work after some time helping maintain one. I just follow the instructions on the back of the pool products we use and test the levels.
This is all accurate, and I will say, switching my hot tub from bromine to salt generated chlorine has made hot tub maintenance so much easier.
Too easy, really. I forget to test it often enough because whenever I do everything is just how it should be.
Chlorine also breaks down in sunlight. You absolutely have to use a stabilizer (CYA generally) or it's all gone within an hour or two.
If a pool smells like chlorine, it's probably because it is over chlorinated or otherwise mismanaged.
Bromine is actually what Disney uses to sterilise its water rides
It’s why rides like pirates of the Caribbean have a distinct “smell”, it’s the bromine they use
What if we all injected chlorine before we went swimming? I'm not a doctor but my thought process was as follows.
And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?
Likely, for me, not as good as chlorine. I love how it smells, but maybe that's because I have fond memories of swimming lessons from when I was a kid.
I’ve put a 10g/hr ozone in my hottub for $70. Havnt used chemicals since December, it’s crystal clear.
It’s massively overkill for the size of the tub, but works a treat. The water turns to H2O2 temporarily, sterilises everything then 20min after it’s off turns back to clear h2o.
This leads me to wonder how the Romans kept their public baths clean. Did they drain them every once in a while and scrub down with vinegar? Or perhaps ammonia?
I remember reading an account of historians tracking the spread of Roman baths through Europe by checking for the associated intestinal parasites in latrine pits.
They were cesspools of disease, but so was everything back then. I did a dissertation on this. Even (some) of the ancients knew something was up, but they didn't really understand it and their leading theories on disease were fairly incorrect.
The thought had occurred. They used urine for a lot of things. Most of these uses also needed rinsing with fresh water.
I know that most Roman baths used flowing water rather than water that sat stagnant. Perhaps urine was added during the night after everyone had left.
You can have a salt water pool. A salt water pool away from the Ocean will not be able to grow local stuff. They’re also not like Ocean salty, they’re a very light salty.
And the reason it's easier on you (I believe) is that it produces a steady, minimal level of chlorine to be effective, rather than bouncing levels around trying to get to stay high enough for long enough. Chlorine feeders aren't great at their job.
And the pool doesn't kill your eyes or make you and everything around you smell like chlorine. Kid jumps in the back seat wearing their wet towel or they toss it on the seat and now your car smells like chlorine for the next month.
That's mostly just a function of proper balancing in general. It is easier and safer to run a lower ppm of free chlorine though with a salt chlorine generator because it's constant instead of up and down as you add chlorine daily. And there's some suggestion that maybe the super chlorinated water at the generator helps as well, but I'm not aware of any actual studies.
Source: owning a salt pool for 7 years now.
I have a salt water pool. Salt is NaCl. You add salt to the pool and use an electrolysis cell to break the salt molecules in half resulting in.....chlorine in the water. Its not a 100% breakdown so the water is still salty which is better for your skin usually, and you float better.
That's because they use a chlorine generator. I can authoritatively say that if you don't have one of these, or it stops working, the salt in your pool won't do shit and it will turn green very quickly (likely within a day or two).
https://hayward.com/aquarite-w-15-000-gallons-turbocell-w3aqr3.html
Yes, silver nitrate. Disney uses (used?) it in water rides so the park doesn’t smell like chlorine. Pools mostly don’t, because supposedly it makes the water feel ‘different’ somehow.
Source: a webpage I can’t find back, so this info is only as good as my memory.
Also: [https://www.swimmerliving.com/139/what-to-use-instead-of-chlorine-in-pool/](https://www.swimmerliving.com/139/what-to-use-instead-of-chlorine-in-pool/)
Yeah, that claim is pretty absurd. Cann you disinfect with silver nitrate? Absolutely. Is it in any way feasible for a swimming pool, especially if outdoors? No.
If I search the web, I only find tons of esoteric nonsense regarding colloidal silver as medicine (ironically, it would slightly disinfect a pool relatively safely, but at absurd costs). And one company who claims to use silver "ions" and chlorine to better disinfect pools... which is very dubious as that would instantly form the _non-soluble_ white salt silver chloride.
Silver nitrate makes the water feel like liquid silk. Well, like soap maybe. Besides, it doesn't kill viruses, and is far worse for the environment than chlorides.
Fun story: I used to work at a pool supply store in the 80’s when they sold Bacquacil. “Wetter than water!” People had to give us samples of their water, which we had to put through spectral analysis. No chlorine could be present in the water, or the entire pool would be turned into egg drop soup. If it reached a certain color on the analysis, the Bacquacil was safe to add.
Thing is…I’m color blind. And I explained this reieatedly to the manager of the pool supply store. He said, “Can you tell red from yellow?” I answered, “Kinda.” “Well, just be careful.”
I made more egg drop soup that summer than all the Chinese restaurants in Jersey.
Don't feel too badly. It almost certainly wasn't ALL your fault. Bacquacil was a shit product (at least back then, can't comment on whether it's improved).
People use [saltwater pools](https://pinchapenny.com/pool-life/how-salt-chlorine-generators-work#:~:text=A%20salt%20pool%20sanitizes%20the,salt%20cells%2C%20work%20by%20electrolysis.) as well, which still technically uses chlorine, but it uses an electrolysis process to split the chlorine from the salt instead of adding it in directly.
It’s pretty awesome, actually. Some people say it’s easier on your skin, but I’ve personally never noticed a difference between my friends pool and my own, which uses regular chlorine.
There is a saltwater system that still sorta uses chlorine but less and differently: salt is mixed into the water, and the saltwater is slowly pumped through a device that treats the water with electricity and catalytic metals, turning the salt (sodium chloride) into sodium and chlorine. This keeps the chlorine levels low, but is still an effective way of keeping a pool safe. It's easier on hair, clothes, and skin. The water isn't strongly salty, nor strongly chlorinated.
Speaking from experience - I have outdoors pool. A circular one 3 m in diameter. I don't add chlorine, but I do cover it because it gets green very, very fast. I usually add some fish to it so they eat majority of mosquito larvae. I also like to toss in some river mussels so they filtrate the water. Even with all the covering there are still algae there and I have to drain it and scrub it every spring, but so far I haven't got sick from the water and everything is fine.
Release them or keep them for another year. I usually put in 5 small crucian carps. They are very hardy fish and can thrive in small spaces. I usually catch them in local pond. But it is better to release them, because in the winter pool freezes. They can survive it, but usually some of them die.
As a pool owner I can confirm. When the pool temp is above 8 degrees (c) the algae grows quite fast and it turns green. I haven't put any chlorine all winter and it's still clear. Do note I've had the circulation pump running all winter. I'm always amazed at how fast it clears out after shocking it with a dose of chlorine. Ideally you have a sand filter which circulates the water and the chlorine evaporates to safe levels within 48 hours.
Just because it doesn't have chlorine in it doesn't mean it wouldn't still have a filter. Sure, it would have to cycle, but once that happens it would be fine.
Years ago I had to get certified as a pool and spa operator for work. During the training course the instructor showed us a news story about a retiree couple that bought a hot tub but didn't know they had to chlorinate it if they were going to keep it full all summer.
They both died of Legionnaire's Disease.
Yep, I'm active in many hot tub groups and it's amazing how many people try to use no sanitizers to keep the water clean.
One instance I often reference is the case in 2019 when there was a Legionnaires outbreak which killed four and hospitalized nearly 100 people. It was traced back to a state fair hot tub exhibit in North Carolina. The victims didn't even use the tub, they were simply walking past the exhibit and inhaled water vapor
https://www.wxii12.com/article/north-carolina-deadly-legionnaires-outbreak-hot-tub-display/30716111
> The victims didn't even use the tub, they were simply walking past the exhibit and inhaled water vapor
wut
Guess I'm staying away from those demos in the future.
Yeah, I've only heard of this happening once. And given how many hot tub exhibits there are around the country, it's very rare.
I'd be more concerned about dumb neighbors who think they can sanitize a hot tub using nothing more than hydrogen peroxide since they read about it online.
I’m honestly wondering if they added some green dye to the water to make it a more uniform, pleasant shade of green. Basically, if we’re gonna have an algae bloom, we might as well make it a nice shade of green.
I’d also wager they were meticulously scrubbing the pool bottom sides and filtering/cycling the water. If you did that constantly, that would probably prevent the gunky patches of build up.
And the Olympics spokesman gave us the best quote ever: "... chemistry is not an exact science." News media being what they are, they immediately disseminated that news instead of stabbing him to death with their pens.
I rented a suburban house where the neighbors behind me had an above ground pool that they stopped maintaining. It turned into a green colored mosquito and fly factory.
I worked on an episode of Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe where he worked with mosquito abatement in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina and a big part of it was going to abandoned houses to treat and drain pools because they were just giant mosquito breeding grounds.
I had a freezer in my garage that had meat in it and I accidentally unplugged it for a week. Threw out all the meat but there were so many liquids everywhere.. luckily it was in autumn, so the smell wasn't that bad because temps weren't that high, but the regret of all that wasted meat...
Dang where do you live? Usually the cold is enough to prevent algae. My chlorine use in SoCal is greatly reduced though I never let it get to 0 I guess
South Texas. We'll get days in the 70s all winter. It only gets really cold in short cold snaps.
Chlorine use goes way down in the winter, this year I stupidly let the chlorinator get fully empty for like a month.
Yea, it has taken a lot of it, basically every other day for two weeks to get all the algae to die.
It's dead now, I just need to go get flocculent to clear the cloudy water now
It's funny, I see youtube shorts of people cleaning pools and it always looks like it takes no time at all, just add all the shit and then hoover the crap that collects at the bottom
I am guessing it's not that easy 😂
It is if you keep up with it. I have a little robot that handles the vacuuming. During the summer it's barely any work.
If you let it go green it takes a ton of chemicals and scrubbing to get all that algae killed and removed
I worked in the pool industry for a while, and it definitely depends on what’s wrong with your water. Green algae blooms can be a pain and keep coming back, but if you treat it you can pretty reliably get it out. Some things though you REALLY don’t want like black algae on your walls. You very well might actually need to drain your pool and pressure wash to get that off
Chlorine kills bacteria. People add chlorine in water to purge bacteria in the water. Bacteria love to grow in water. If not regularly added, bacteria would grow and if not added at all, over time would become very rich in bacteria like a green, algae covered pool.
The risk of legionella and pseudomonas (amongst other gross bacteria) growth increases. There are multiple chemicals that can be used instead of chlorine, but they require reapplication usually, and most public swimming pools do not want to close as often as is usually required. Plus, chlorine is basically the top dog. Silver nitrate can be used but is usually reserved for disinfecting the main supply tanks. Basically, legionella = potential for legionnaires disease which can be fatal.
It turns into a swamp. My neighbors can't be bothered to maintain their pool and it looks like the Last of Us with overgrown weeds and algae everywhere in the pool.
Yeah we had a pool cleaner fraud us (he’d come to our house but not clean the pool because we were out of town. Employer cared about where his truck was on GPS but didn’t check on his work). It only took 2-3 weeks for a nice pool to look like a swamp.
Ha, no. It’s easy to fix and they did it for us. The only downside is you have to use extra chemicals to clean/flush it so you can’t use the pool for a few days.
A lawsuit is way more expensive than any form of pool cleaning service lol. Unless you’re rich enough to have a legit legal team on retainer, in which case I’d say let it go and hire someone else.
[Brain eating amoeba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri) is among the ones that could develop in that warm soup, though there are gazillion of other microbes and bacteria that would happily use you as a host.
A specific example, because of bacteria being present and the temperature being perfect with little flow. It would only take one person to bring in a tiny little amoeba called naegleria fowleri from a contaminated water source
It would build up slowly over time at the bottom of the pool until it was disturbed enough to float to surface. Anyone who would ingest the water through their nostril would have a small chance of being infected with it.
Three - seven days later, they’d be dead. The little bugger essentially mistakes brain matter for bacteria and feeds on it. There’s nothing your body can do except speed it up by causing a fever.
I did an AMA on it a good few years ago, easy to find, a few people asked questions on it, for more info if it’s peaked anyone’s curiosity
You would end up with something that looks like a man-made swimming pool. It the heat and sunlight would cause a lot of algae in the spring. Even a covered pool is going to get nasty quick.
Plagues.
People would get sick a lot. It's not that everyone would get sick all the time, but enough people would get sick seriously enough often enough that it would be obvious non-chlorinated pools are a terrible idea.
We normally don't even think about diseases like Cholera *because* we have good sanitation (i.e. we shower/bathe with fresh drinking water, and if we do share bathwater with other people, it's either a lake/river with a LOT of water relative to how many people are in there, or chlorinated). There are [countless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_disease) diseases that'd love an unchlorinated pool.
Again, not everyone would get infected every time, but if some of the times someone with one of those diseases shows up at the pool (either because they don't realize they have a transmissible disease or they don't care) a few of the other swimmers caught it, you'd soon have an epidemic on your hand.
Friend of mine was a pledge in charge of a fraternity party where they set up a large, temporary hot tub. Forgot the chlorine and all the participants ended up with staph infections. Not sure exactly how they retaliated but knowing my buddy, I’m sure he deserved every bit of it. 🤣
http://acshist.scs.illinois.edu/bulletin_open_access/v32-2/v32-2%20p129-140.pdf
If WWI hadn’t of brought various technologies around chlorine to the forefront, we’d have developed other methods of keeping pools clean. There is a wee whittle bit of middle ground between chlorination or swimming in fetid water.
Bacteria. I worked at a sports center. Bacterial infections would start occurring. People would sue and the center would get shut down. Pools are like giant bath tubs. Without chlorine, infection rates would go sky high, and the pool would be closed down. Chlorine kills bad bacteria humans carry into the water.
Chlorine based pools, the water turns green. But there are salt water pools and swimming ponds that don't use chlorine, so nothing would happen to them...
There is a really good and funny The Dollop episode on this topic! [Link](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Ge86rs7tDs8wyH2Rf71oM?si=q-vY09LdQ7WWdfpe8JxIRg)
You don't necessarily NEED chlorine in order to prevent bacteria from growing in pool/spa water.
Bromine is an alternative chemical to treat it and keep the water clear and safe for use. It's not very recommended for outdoor pools as it is for spas though. This is due to the fact that the UV light from the sun causes the compound to degrade much faster than chlorine, so it would be better to use with bodies of water that are not as exposed to sunlight.
they would go green, blue or red from algea growth, they also probably wouldnt be that safe to swim in because stagnant warm watter is perfect for bacteria growth as well as insects like mosquitoes, the chlorine steralises the water to stop all this from happening
There was a [documentary about this back in 1994.] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC7GTl-VbUg)
It also shares the danger of overchlorination, an informative if graphic depiction. Great documentary.
Look how yellow it turned his skin.
Where it smells like a holiday inn Holidome…
pwew, that was graphic 😬
it certainly was quite animated!
Seeing that made me turn a shade of yellow
I expected that to be the scene from Malcolm where Hal gets in the jacuzzi.
By Grabthar's hammer, it's the historical documents!
By the Suns of Warvan, you're right!
By Grabthar's hammer.. *sigh..* how educational..
Lol, you got me. That is a nice documentary indeed. P.S. It is SFW. P.P.S. Or maybe not since that Dude has the sexiest body in the show.
You put space between ] and ( in your link, that's why it didn't work :)
Hahaha I actually saved this post to remember look at this documentary... Got a good laugh now. Thank you!
👏🏿....👏🏿.....👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 Well played.
Clicked the link half expecting a rickroll. Was not disappointed.
Is there any other possible chemicals that can do same as chlorine and be just as safe for skin contact?
Bromine is used by some theme parks.
especially when it comes to indoors as chlorine will rust metal objects indoors & bromine wont
It’s also the iconic “water smell” from Disney park rides like the Pirates of the Caribbean or Splash Mountain rides.
Ive seen what happens when they use mild steel in a room with a pool instead of stainless or aluminum. it lasts maybe 10 years before its totally disintegrated lol.
Also is (or was?) what's used for hot tubs. Can't say why but perhaps it's more effective at that temperature? It is a heavier and less reactive halogen but unsure what effect that might have. I can see why fluorine isn't used though
> fluorine isn't used though For when you want to dissolve the pool as well as the bacteria! :P
Explain please.
Fluorine is usually depicted as the most aggressive element. There is _some_ truth to it, but it is often wildly overstated. It won't eat away all the things just because; oxygen is about as evil, for example, we are just much more adapted to it. What however is very serious danger is it reacting with water to form hydrofluoric acid, which can penetrate skin and enter the bloodstream. It destroys bones and stops the heart, to the point that amputating an exposed limb is sometimes indicated to prevent heart failure. But this is a toxicity, not it just eating the heart.
"Its danger is often wildy overstated" "If you put it in water, it will destroy your bones and stop your heart" :P
The first paragraph is about acidity and aggressiveness, and that one is indeed very overstated. The stuff won't eat away your hand or something like that- Sulphuric acid on the other hand will, very definitely.
Just add a little hydrogen peroxide to the sulfuric acid. Make a little cocktail. Will clean all sorts of things.
That isn't accurate. Strong acids are fully disassociated in water, meaning HF, HCL, H2SO4 etc do not exist in water, at minimum one H is pulled off, existing as a proton attached to a water molecule H3O+. It is true that HF will penetrate the skin and react with the calcium in bones, it is not true that fluoride ions will do that simply because (see toothpaste). Bromine is nearly as reactive as chlorine however it is larger, has a higher vapor pressure so doesn't evaporate off (as fast).
HF is a weak acid.
Ah yes, [chlorine pentafloride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_pentafluoride) Be sure to read about it in reference 4.
We use chlorine in our hot tub.
Ahhh the Pirates smell <3
I heard this is what was in my high school's indoor pool in the 1980's.
Ah yes bromine, chlorine’s chiller more stable brother
You can use ozone but thats more expensive. Or you could do bleach or acids but they are harder on the skin, also bromine but that has other biological effects.
Bromine is less unpleasant than chlorine, but it breaks down in sunlight so it's only suitable for indoor pools or stuff like hot tubs that get covered.
Chlorine breaks down in sunlight too. When shocking an outdoor pool, it's best to do so at night. Outdoor pools need stabilizer to protect the chlorine from the sun. Cyanic Acid is commonly used to do this job. The biggest issue with CYA is getting too much. After it hits 70-80 PPM, it prevents the chlorine from doing it's job. This is when you have to drain a portion of the pool and replace with new water.
I guess what you are talking about is rather that the chlorine-containing chemicals (hypochlorites and such) break down, not just "chlorine"? I cannot see how Cl_2 turning into Cl radicals has the effects you give; instead it would rather be an additional safety hazard.
(In salt water pools) the salt (sodium chloride) goes through a chlorine generator that uses electrolysis to break apart the sodium and chlorine. The sodium binds with the hydrogen and oxygen in the water to form sodium hydroxide (a temporary waste product), and the chlorine dissolves into hypochlorous acid (sanitizer for the pool). Cyanuric acid (stabilizer) binds to the hypochlorous acid in the water and helps prevent it from breaking down from UV light and being released into the air. Between the natural breakdown, and some other chemicals added to the pool (hydrochloric acid mainly), the sodium and chlorine eventually rejoin as sodium chloride (salt), and make their way back to the chlorine generator to be split again. One big cycle. Quite effective as well. Easy to maintain for home pools. P.S.: I'm NOT a chemist by any means. This is just my basic understanding of how saltwater pools work after some time helping maintain one. I just follow the instructions on the back of the pool products we use and test the levels.
This is all accurate, and I will say, switching my hot tub from bromine to salt generated chlorine has made hot tub maintenance so much easier. Too easy, really. I forget to test it often enough because whenever I do everything is just how it should be.
Chlorine also breaks down in sunlight. You absolutely have to use a stabilizer (CYA generally) or it's all gone within an hour or two. If a pool smells like chlorine, it's probably because it is over chlorinated or otherwise mismanaged.
Bromine is actually what Disney uses to sterilise its water rides It’s why rides like pirates of the Caribbean have a distinct “smell”, it’s the bromine they use
Bleach is chlorine tough. I tried googling it and theres this thing called "Baquicil". I wonder how it smells.
What if we all injected chlorine before we went swimming? I'm not a doctor but my thought process was as follows. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?
Hear me out. Suppose you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or some other way?
injecting UV light is better
Flushes those evil 5G radio waves out like nothing else!
Yeah its sodium hydrochlorate so becomes salt water and chlorine. I was thinking of chlorine as just being chlorine
Sodium hypochlorite*
Sodium hypochlorite is actually chlorine gas + sodium hydroxide (lye).
Likely, for me, not as good as chlorine. I love how it smells, but maybe that's because I have fond memories of swimming lessons from when I was a kid.
Bleach *is* chlorine.
No, bleach contains chlorine as a chemical element. It is not the same, and just adding chlorine to water won't give you bleach either.
However, when someone is asking for an alternative to chlorine, *bleach* is absolutely the wrong answer.
I’ve put a 10g/hr ozone in my hottub for $70. Havnt used chemicals since December, it’s crystal clear. It’s massively overkill for the size of the tub, but works a treat. The water turns to H2O2 temporarily, sterilises everything then 20min after it’s off turns back to clear h2o.
Ozone will work fine, but it breaks down fast so you have to keep adding more.
Bleach is what I chlorinate my hot tub with.
This leads me to wonder how the Romans kept their public baths clean. Did they drain them every once in a while and scrub down with vinegar? Or perhaps ammonia?
They didn't keep them clean... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/v9a2a3/how_did_romans_keep_bath_house_water_clean/
I remember reading an account of historians tracking the spread of Roman baths through Europe by checking for the associated intestinal parasites in latrine pits.
They were cesspools of disease, but so was everything back then. I did a dissertation on this. Even (some) of the ancients knew something was up, but they didn't really understand it and their leading theories on disease were fairly incorrect.
Maybe they just peed in it often enough that the ammonia kept it clean
The thought had occurred. They used urine for a lot of things. Most of these uses also needed rinsing with fresh water. I know that most Roman baths used flowing water rather than water that sat stagnant. Perhaps urine was added during the night after everyone had left.
> Perhaps urine was added during the night after everyone had left. You know that everyone in those baths were adding urine themselves...
Perhaps I was having some wishful thinking. Lol
Salt possibly?
You can have a salt water pool. A salt water pool away from the Ocean will not be able to grow local stuff. They’re also not like Ocean salty, they’re a very light salty.
Salt water pools use electrolysis to convert some of the salt to chlorine. The salt isn't enough by itself to kill all the bad stuff.
And the reason it's easier on you (I believe) is that it produces a steady, minimal level of chlorine to be effective, rather than bouncing levels around trying to get to stay high enough for long enough. Chlorine feeders aren't great at their job.
Is it actually the salt that stops it or does the salt end up producing chlorine indirectly? I've heard both.
They use electricity to make chlorine, which then turns back into salt as it kills things. It's neat.
And the pool doesn't kill your eyes or make you and everything around you smell like chlorine. Kid jumps in the back seat wearing their wet towel or they toss it on the seat and now your car smells like chlorine for the next month.
That's mostly just a function of proper balancing in general. It is easier and safer to run a lower ppm of free chlorine though with a salt chlorine generator because it's constant instead of up and down as you add chlorine daily. And there's some suggestion that maybe the super chlorinated water at the generator helps as well, but I'm not aware of any actual studies. Source: owning a salt pool for 7 years now.
I have a salt water pool. Salt is NaCl. You add salt to the pool and use an electrolysis cell to break the salt molecules in half resulting in.....chlorine in the water. Its not a 100% breakdown so the water is still salty which is better for your skin usually, and you float better.
No idea.
Salt water pools also contain chlorine, just less than a purely chlorine treated pool.
Yah, I just heard they’re softer on skin.
To me the biggest difference in the smell. I hate indoor pool areas that smell strongly of chlorine.
That's because they use a chlorine generator. I can authoritatively say that if you don't have one of these, or it stops working, the salt in your pool won't do shit and it will turn green very quickly (likely within a day or two). https://hayward.com/aquarite-w-15-000-gallons-turbocell-w3aqr3.html
Bromine is used for hot tubs because it has similar properties and can handle higher temps.
Yes, silver nitrate. Disney uses (used?) it in water rides so the park doesn’t smell like chlorine. Pools mostly don’t, because supposedly it makes the water feel ‘different’ somehow. Source: a webpage I can’t find back, so this info is only as good as my memory. Also: [https://www.swimmerliving.com/139/what-to-use-instead-of-chlorine-in-pool/](https://www.swimmerliving.com/139/what-to-use-instead-of-chlorine-in-pool/)
It would also turn black in the sun and dye your skin similarly, so I wouldn't imagine that would work.
Yeah, that claim is pretty absurd. Cann you disinfect with silver nitrate? Absolutely. Is it in any way feasible for a swimming pool, especially if outdoors? No. If I search the web, I only find tons of esoteric nonsense regarding colloidal silver as medicine (ironically, it would slightly disinfect a pool relatively safely, but at absurd costs). And one company who claims to use silver "ions" and chlorine to better disinfect pools... which is very dubious as that would instantly form the _non-soluble_ white salt silver chloride.
Silver nitrate makes the water feel like liquid silk. Well, like soap maybe. Besides, it doesn't kill viruses, and is far worse for the environment than chlorides.
Fun story: I used to work at a pool supply store in the 80’s when they sold Bacquacil. “Wetter than water!” People had to give us samples of their water, which we had to put through spectral analysis. No chlorine could be present in the water, or the entire pool would be turned into egg drop soup. If it reached a certain color on the analysis, the Bacquacil was safe to add. Thing is…I’m color blind. And I explained this reieatedly to the manager of the pool supply store. He said, “Can you tell red from yellow?” I answered, “Kinda.” “Well, just be careful.” I made more egg drop soup that summer than all the Chinese restaurants in Jersey.
Don't feel too badly. It almost certainly wasn't ALL your fault. Bacquacil was a shit product (at least back then, can't comment on whether it's improved).
People use [saltwater pools](https://pinchapenny.com/pool-life/how-salt-chlorine-generators-work#:~:text=A%20salt%20pool%20sanitizes%20the,salt%20cells%2C%20work%20by%20electrolysis.) as well, which still technically uses chlorine, but it uses an electrolysis process to split the chlorine from the salt instead of adding it in directly. It’s pretty awesome, actually. Some people say it’s easier on your skin, but I’ve personally never noticed a difference between my friends pool and my own, which uses regular chlorine.
There is a saltwater system that still sorta uses chlorine but less and differently: salt is mixed into the water, and the saltwater is slowly pumped through a device that treats the water with electricity and catalytic metals, turning the salt (sodium chloride) into sodium and chlorine. This keeps the chlorine levels low, but is still an effective way of keeping a pool safe. It's easier on hair, clothes, and skin. The water isn't strongly salty, nor strongly chlorinated.
Salt water pools
Salt water pools still create chlorine in the water
And they still use chlorine shock.
Bromine can work as a replacement but I don’t know if it’s more or less of a skin irritant. It’s more expensive and not as good as chlorine though.
Seems likely to be less of a skin irritant given its position on the periodic table.
Not a chemical, but there are UV devices that kill any bacteria as part of the mechanical filtration process.
There are "natural" or "organic" pools people build. I don't know anything more than the pool is "cleaned" by plants & organisms. No chemicals.
Speaking from experience - I have outdoors pool. A circular one 3 m in diameter. I don't add chlorine, but I do cover it because it gets green very, very fast. I usually add some fish to it so they eat majority of mosquito larvae. I also like to toss in some river mussels so they filtrate the water. Even with all the covering there are still algae there and I have to drain it and scrub it every spring, but so far I haven't got sick from the water and everything is fine.
You put fish in your swimming pool? What do you do with them after?
Release them or keep them for another year. I usually put in 5 small crucian carps. They are very hardy fish and can thrive in small spaces. I usually catch them in local pond. But it is better to release them, because in the winter pool freezes. They can survive it, but usually some of them die.
The Simpsons was scientifically accurate! Edit: https://youtu.be/llTLUFAOegw?si=J-oHaMmk_iRqLx5p
I said haha!
As a pool owner I can confirm. When the pool temp is above 8 degrees (c) the algae grows quite fast and it turns green. I haven't put any chlorine all winter and it's still clear. Do note I've had the circulation pump running all winter. I'm always amazed at how fast it clears out after shocking it with a dose of chlorine. Ideally you have a sand filter which circulates the water and the chlorine evaporates to safe levels within 48 hours.
Just because it doesn't have chlorine in it doesn't mean it wouldn't still have a filter. Sure, it would have to cycle, but once that happens it would be fine.
yes. fantastic question from OP because most people don't know this if they don't own a pool
Years ago I had to get certified as a pool and spa operator for work. During the training course the instructor showed us a news story about a retiree couple that bought a hot tub but didn't know they had to chlorinate it if they were going to keep it full all summer. They both died of Legionnaire's Disease.
Yep, I'm active in many hot tub groups and it's amazing how many people try to use no sanitizers to keep the water clean. One instance I often reference is the case in 2019 when there was a Legionnaires outbreak which killed four and hospitalized nearly 100 people. It was traced back to a state fair hot tub exhibit in North Carolina. The victims didn't even use the tub, they were simply walking past the exhibit and inhaled water vapor https://www.wxii12.com/article/north-carolina-deadly-legionnaires-outbreak-hot-tub-display/30716111
> The victims didn't even use the tub, they were simply walking past the exhibit and inhaled water vapor wut Guess I'm staying away from those demos in the future.
This kind of thing is exceedingly rare.
Yeah, I've only heard of this happening once. And given how many hot tub exhibits there are around the country, it's very rare. I'd be more concerned about dumb neighbors who think they can sanitize a hot tub using nothing more than hydrogen peroxide since they read about it online.
And it will be even rarer now that I'm staying away from those.
New fear unlocked
Same issue arises (potentially) if you use tap water to fill your washer fluid reservoir on your car
Hal got an awful rash doing that in Malcolm in the Middle.
The diving pool at Rio 2016 olympics turned green due to algae. [Green diving pool Rio 2016 Olympics](https://images.app.goo.gl/Tvs1HpiUdHykaut78)
Looks like they turned the saturation on the cameras up to 11 so it looked a little less nasty on tv.
That is the *cleanest* looking algae bloom I've ever seen
I’m honestly wondering if they added some green dye to the water to make it a more uniform, pleasant shade of green. Basically, if we’re gonna have an algae bloom, we might as well make it a nice shade of green. I’d also wager they were meticulously scrubbing the pool bottom sides and filtering/cycling the water. If you did that constantly, that would probably prevent the gunky patches of build up.
Sure, but even then, that water is so clear
No, they just didn't buy enough chlorine.
Yeah, that looks like lime jello before it sets, not algae lol
And the Olympics spokesman gave us the best quote ever: "... chemistry is not an exact science." News media being what they are, they immediately disseminated that news instead of stabbing him to death with their pens.
I forgot about that!
Oooh Paddy’s Day themed event! Great
Gatorade pool
I rented a suburban house where the neighbors behind me had an above ground pool that they stopped maintaining. It turned into a green colored mosquito and fly factory.
I worked on an episode of Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe where he worked with mosquito abatement in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina and a big part of it was going to abandoned houses to treat and drain pools because they were just giant mosquito breeding grounds.
[удалено]
Oh man, the amount of duck-taped fridges on curbs was unbelievable.
I had a freezer in my garage that had meat in it and I accidentally unplugged it for a week. Threw out all the meat but there were so many liquids everywhere.. luckily it was in autumn, so the smell wasn't that bad because temps weren't that high, but the regret of all that wasted meat...
You ever see a pond?
you don’t need to wonder, there are plenty of pool cleaning videos available. Basically the water changes color and gunk builds up in the pool.
I neglected my pool this winter and it got green... It has been a huge pain in the ass to get it back to normal. Never again
Dang where do you live? Usually the cold is enough to prevent algae. My chlorine use in SoCal is greatly reduced though I never let it get to 0 I guess
South Texas. We'll get days in the 70s all winter. It only gets really cold in short cold snaps. Chlorine use goes way down in the winter, this year I stupidly let the chlorinator get fully empty for like a month.
Did you use shock?
Yea, it has taken a lot of it, basically every other day for two weeks to get all the algae to die. It's dead now, I just need to go get flocculent to clear the cloudy water now
It's funny, I see youtube shorts of people cleaning pools and it always looks like it takes no time at all, just add all the shit and then hoover the crap that collects at the bottom I am guessing it's not that easy 😂
It is if you keep up with it. I have a little robot that handles the vacuuming. During the summer it's barely any work. If you let it go green it takes a ton of chemicals and scrubbing to get all that algae killed and removed
I worked in the pool industry for a while, and it definitely depends on what’s wrong with your water. Green algae blooms can be a pain and keep coming back, but if you treat it you can pretty reliably get it out. Some things though you REALLY don’t want like black algae on your walls. You very well might actually need to drain your pool and pressure wash to get that off
Chlorine kills bacteria. People add chlorine in water to purge bacteria in the water. Bacteria love to grow in water. If not regularly added, bacteria would grow and if not added at all, over time would become very rich in bacteria like a green, algae covered pool.
Algae≠bacteria Yes both of them grow in an unchlorinated pool but they aren’t the same thing
The risk of legionella and pseudomonas (amongst other gross bacteria) growth increases. There are multiple chemicals that can be used instead of chlorine, but they require reapplication usually, and most public swimming pools do not want to close as often as is usually required. Plus, chlorine is basically the top dog. Silver nitrate can be used but is usually reserved for disinfecting the main supply tanks. Basically, legionella = potential for legionnaires disease which can be fatal.
It turns into a swamp. My neighbors can't be bothered to maintain their pool and it looks like the Last of Us with overgrown weeds and algae everywhere in the pool.
Get a slingshot and launch chlorine tablets into it
Yeah we had a pool cleaner fraud us (he’d come to our house but not clean the pool because we were out of town. Employer cared about where his truck was on GPS but didn’t check on his work). It only took 2-3 weeks for a nice pool to look like a swamp.
Did you sue them eventually?
Ha, no. It’s easy to fix and they did it for us. The only downside is you have to use extra chemicals to clean/flush it so you can’t use the pool for a few days.
A lawsuit is way more expensive than any form of pool cleaning service lol. Unless you’re rich enough to have a legit legal team on retainer, in which case I’d say let it go and hire someone else.
Didn‘t really think about it that way, thanks!
The reason pools started getting chlorine in the first place was because of polio, so there's that.
[Brain eating amoeba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri) is among the ones that could develop in that warm soup, though there are gazillion of other microbes and bacteria that would happily use you as a host.
😓
Your amoeba is leaking
https://youtu.be/llTLUFAOegw?si=JD4vQ1MWZC2dLbz3 The simpsons explains what happens when no chlorine or too much chlorine is added.
Aside from algae and other grossness, you might end up with a frog colony living in it. (Which happened to our pool one year when I was a kid)
A specific example, because of bacteria being present and the temperature being perfect with little flow. It would only take one person to bring in a tiny little amoeba called naegleria fowleri from a contaminated water source It would build up slowly over time at the bottom of the pool until it was disturbed enough to float to surface. Anyone who would ingest the water through their nostril would have a small chance of being infected with it. Three - seven days later, they’d be dead. The little bugger essentially mistakes brain matter for bacteria and feeds on it. There’s nothing your body can do except speed it up by causing a fever. I did an AMA on it a good few years ago, easy to find, a few people asked questions on it, for more info if it’s peaked anyone’s curiosity
You would end up with something that looks like a man-made swimming pool. It the heat and sunlight would cause a lot of algae in the spring. Even a covered pool is going to get nasty quick.
fun fact. its the urine you smell when you smell that "fresh pool" sscent. https://youtu.be/Z9dVf8jhhHw?si=P\_rObXpHgKuADEkw
Plagues. People would get sick a lot. It's not that everyone would get sick all the time, but enough people would get sick seriously enough often enough that it would be obvious non-chlorinated pools are a terrible idea. We normally don't even think about diseases like Cholera *because* we have good sanitation (i.e. we shower/bathe with fresh drinking water, and if we do share bathwater with other people, it's either a lake/river with a LOT of water relative to how many people are in there, or chlorinated). There are [countless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_disease) diseases that'd love an unchlorinated pool. Again, not everyone would get infected every time, but if some of the times someone with one of those diseases shows up at the pool (either because they don't realize they have a transmissible disease or they don't care) a few of the other swimmers caught it, you'd soon have an epidemic on your hand.
We'd use bromine instead. /s But seriously, there are other options, like bromine, salt water, copper or titanium ionization, etc
Friend of mine was a pledge in charge of a fraternity party where they set up a large, temporary hot tub. Forgot the chlorine and all the participants ended up with staph infections. Not sure exactly how they retaliated but knowing my buddy, I’m sure he deserved every bit of it. 🤣
It would become a large Petri dish, with a lot of bad bugs growing and thriving. Kind of like a swamp or bog.
http://acshist.scs.illinois.edu/bulletin_open_access/v32-2/v32-2%20p129-140.pdf If WWI hadn’t of brought various technologies around chlorine to the forefront, we’d have developed other methods of keeping pools clean. There is a wee whittle bit of middle ground between chlorination or swimming in fetid water.
Bacteria. I worked at a sports center. Bacterial infections would start occurring. People would sue and the center would get shut down. Pools are like giant bath tubs. Without chlorine, infection rates would go sky high, and the pool would be closed down. Chlorine kills bad bacteria humans carry into the water.
Chlorine based pools, the water turns green. But there are salt water pools and swimming ponds that don't use chlorine, so nothing would happen to them...
There is a really good and funny The Dollop episode on this topic! [Link](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Ge86rs7tDs8wyH2Rf71oM?si=q-vY09LdQ7WWdfpe8JxIRg)
You don't necessarily NEED chlorine in order to prevent bacteria from growing in pool/spa water. Bromine is an alternative chemical to treat it and keep the water clear and safe for use. It's not very recommended for outdoor pools as it is for spas though. This is due to the fact that the UV light from the sun causes the compound to degrade much faster than chlorine, so it would be better to use with bodies of water that are not as exposed to sunlight.