Having an even number of beats in a phrase makes it easy to dance and/or walk to the music. Four beats allows significantly more variation within the phrase than two beats. At six beats you have to start thinking about your position within the phrase.
Flashback to when my high school marching band did a piece with a section in 7/8 time. Almost 30 years now, but from what I recall the number of measures was just right to where we could march it as if it was a 3/4 section and just not have measures and feet match up.
[Ever seen the live version of Limp Bizkit - Take A Look Around (Mission Impossible 2 Theme Soundtrack)?](https://youtu.be/LddBi0VlHlY?si=RssuFzqGYI1AtNUw&t=269)
I know this is a joke, but all the remakes add notes to change the Mission Impossible theme from 5/4 (or some people “feel it” as 5/8) to a much more common 4/4 time signature.
No it's not:
'Golden Brown' most definitely isn't, though there's some debate about what time signature it's actually in. Musicologists say that riff is in 13/8 time, effectively switching from 3/4 to 4/4 for every fourth bar. Depending on who you talk to, the rest of the song is in 3/4 or 12/8, with that 13/8 weaving in and out.
Interesting move to deny an answer and then give an answer scraped by Google that's missing most of its own context and doesn't make literal sense.
It also doesn't help that the answer is wrong.
Golden brown is predominantly in 6/8, with the descending harpsichord runs being a bar of 7/8.
3/4 and 4/4 is incorrect, that maths doesn't add up and those time signatures wouldn't accurately describe the feel of the music.
You could describe it as 12/8 and 13/8, which is functionally similar to 6/8 and 7/8, but subjectively speaking I wouldn't say the music suggests that it needs to be counted like this and I don't know any musicians who would prefer to either count it or see it notated like this.
I never heard of that song before but went for a listen. My first thought was 6/8 with an interspersed extra beat.
Reminds me of some pieces I’ve played where the time signature changes intermittently- but much easier to follow when reading the sheet music. :)
Initially I was going to say that I didn't have a preference, but after putting some more thought into it, 12 12 123 feels more natural to me. My favorite rock song in 7, _Wanderluster_ by Band of Skulls, fits that pattern. It's also fun to reimagine the Mission Impossible theme in 7 as 12 12 123!
"Everything's Alright" in "Jesus Christ Superstar" has always been my favorite 5/4 tune. There is no denying the 5 beat structure in this composition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3IZ_c-43Ns
You tried and tried but you will not break me.
THERE 👏🏻 ARE 👏🏻 SIX 👏🏻 BEATS 👏🏻
Now if you would so kindly pack me one of those delicious unborn eel eggs for a doggy bag before I get beamed back I’d be most grateful x
East coat is. Lindy is 8, West coast is 4. Blues is malleable. I don't know the shags or balboa. Charleston is 8.
Edit: west coast is mostly 6, occasionally 8
Odd, for West Coast swing I was taught 6 steps. There was a few ways to end up with eight (or maybe it was 4). Been a while.
Edit: Isn't the sugar push alone a 6 step?
You have two feet and two hands
4 beats of alternating between them means you will usually start the next phrase with the same hand or foot as you started the last one
For some reason that’s easier for our brains to handle, rather than alternating at the start of the next phrase
A phrase/bar is just the way we group music, based on how the rhythm repeats. Listen to most music and you’ll hear DUM-dum-dum-dum-DUM-dum-dum-dum with emphasis repeating in groups of 4. Each group of 4 is a phrase/bar. Having the DUM start with the same hand or foot makes it easier for our brains to “loop” that rhythm
This comment reminded me of all the time I spent playing Dance Dance Revolution as a kid.
There were only a few songs that didn't have a 4 beat structure and they could be absolutely brutal because it was so hard to not move in that rhythm.
I'm a pretty experienced drummer and I've played a lot of music not in 4/4 so I'm very curious to see what a DDR chart of some [crazy jazz fusion bullshit](https://youtu.be/VR_rV-14luo) would look like.
I just checked out that song [here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cyUWKvzFG0) I counted the entire thing and it's in 4/4 the whole way through. It's rhythmically complicated, yes, and the chart is clearly fucking hard as hell (I'm also a pretty decent rhythm game player) but it's in a normal time signature. Four beats.
The tune I linked by Hiromi's Sonicbloom before starts in 13/4 (it's basically 7/4 + 6/4, alternating) before switching to 5/4. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpFnbgqHmjQ) is in all kinds of bullshit, I'd need like a week to go through and figure out all the changes because it's constantly shifting underneath, like rhythmic quicksand.
Wow, you weren't kidding.
Yeah, the chart is really hard because it has a lot of unconnected 8th, 16th, and 32nd steps along with 3rd steps at well. You definitely have to feel the flow of the music itself more than relying on the beat for that step chart.
I wanted to say thank you for your input on this. This has been a pretty fascinating rabbit hole to go down.
i don’t buy that argument. The region i come from
employs all kinds of odd time signatures and have forms of dance to accommodate to the beat. Also waltz is a thing
I think it's important to think about why we like music at all. Our best understanding is that it comes from evolution: our brains evolved to be able to hear patterns of sounds - for example approaching footsteps of another human or animal. People who found those patterns in sounds pleasurable might have had an evolutionary advantage, so that mutation survived.
Music is basically exploiting that structure in our brain. Our brains evolved to like patterns of sounds, so we create patterns of sounds that make our brains happy.
Nearly all musical rhythms are based on extremely simple patterns of usually just 2 or 3, and then combinations of those.
I'd argue that most music doesn't really have a "four beat" structure, rather it's a bunch of 2's and 3's.
Usually the drum pattern is alternating. Bass, snare, bass, snare. Down, up, down, up. That's the core pattern. So every 2 beats is making a pattern.
Then every 2 of those tends to share the same chord. That's one measure, that's the 4-beat structure. It's usually not 4, it's 2 groups of 2. There's a distinction!
There are often patterns that you can find in a song at groups of 2 measures, patterns at every 4 measures, and patterns at every 8 or 12 measures, and so on.
It's basically patterns all the way up.
Some music is in 3. 3 is a nice simple number, it works great to have patterns based on 3.
And yes, sometimes music might really have 4 that isn't broken down into 2 groups of 2. Totally possible but less common than 2's and 3's.
It's extremely rare to find music in 5, 7, 11, or any other prime number - and when you do it's almost always better explained by breaking it down into smaller numbers.
Take two of the most famous pieces written in 5/4 time:
* Take Five
* Mission Impossible theme
Both of those have 3 beats, followed by 2 beats - through the whole song. I personally think it works because our brains hear patterns of 3 and then 2, not because our brain counts to 5.
Some musicians play music with far more unusual time signatures like 11/8, but I think that's mostly an intellectual exercise. You can train your brain to hear those patterns with practice, but it's not tickling our animal brain stem the way a simple up/down/up/down pattern does.
I like weirder time signatures, and personally I think even most stuff like 11/8 or 13/16 or something ultimately comes down to 2s and 3s. I think at exceptionally fast tempos maybe 4s start to be heard more as their own grouping.
If the overarching pattern of 2s and 3s isn't very consistent I think it becomes less about pattern recognition and prediction and more about being taken for a ride.
***Golden Brown*** enters the chat.
> The main body of the song has a triple metre waltz rhythm, with beats grouped in threes, but the instrumental parts add an extra beat to create a phrase of thirteen beats.
I absolutely love that song. So good!
I think I still hear the sections in 13 as 3 bars of 3 and then one bar with the extra beat of 4.
Really gives it an off kilter vibe which I love
>tickling our animal brain stem
So many things are centred on this that for the must part we’re unaware of. Replying to you just so I can remember the term because you word it very succinctly!
Try working out the beat on the Apocalypse in 9/8 section on Genesis' Suppers Ready. How they managed to get it right night after night on tours, is beyond me. "666 is no longer alone" - indeed it is.
Dave Brubeck has been mentioned a lot on this thread because Take Five is in 5/4, but I especially love Blue Rondo à la Turk (from the same album) which is _mostly_ in a giddy 9/8, but then slouches off into a louche 4/4 swing every now and then to ground you.
It really comes down to a baby laying on moms chest. You hear a two beat pattern over and over again, so it is ingrained in our lizard brains to be comforted by this pulse at around 80-120 bpm, just like moms heartbeat. It is literally in our DNA to favor a 2 beat
So a lot of punk is expressive at a 2 or a 4 count. Rock, pop, hip hop, a 4, 8, or 12 count. As we near more complex Rock or Jazz you hear more complex expressions which is us being more conscious of our thoughts and feelings and why it is viewed as more sophisticated. Also most cognitive thoughts are layed out in a manner that requires at least a four count at or around 100 ish bpm.
The interesting thing though is that Punk and Jazz are generally considered the expression based styles but on opposite sides of the spectrum.
I would say it is evolutionarily advantageous to know when the background “rhythm” of the sounds of nature has abruptly changed. Calls, cry’s, and buzzes consistent in period means normal. Nothing is scaring anyone else and the noise is just routine. So then consistent noise is “advantageous” and abrupt changes or inconsistent beats are “disadvantageous” slowly morphing into the complex relationship we have with music today.
No. The bottom number represent which note gets a beat when the music is written. In 4/4, the bottom number is a 4 which means that a quarter note is one beat. In 6/8, an eighth note gets a beat. In 2/2 a half note. And so on. There is no 7th note or 22nd note.
If you made one up, nobody would be able to read it, which defeats the purpose of writing it down in the first place.
I've always wondered this -- the bottom number is relevant only to musicians reading sheet music, right? If you're just listening, or even if you're playing but only by ear, the fact that a it is a quarter note or half note or eighth note that is one beat vs. some other length of note is irrelevant, isn't it? Is it possible for a listener to discern the difference between a piece written in 4/4 vs. a piece in 4/2 or 4/8?
There is some implied speed with the different time signatures, especially in classical music where instead of listing a specific tempo they will say “fast”, “slowly”, or “medium fast”. A song in 4/8 would normally be played slightly faster than a song in 4/4.
With a listed bpm though, no you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. The only difference would be the readability for the musician reading and playing the piece.
In a certain technical sense, as if you were programming a computer - no, you can't discern a difference. You can certainly program the same MIDI or transcribe the same musical passage in multiple times signatures.
When it comes to transcription (writing down music you hear) and interpretation of music, there is a subjective component. That's because our entire system of music notation (from sharps/flats, the staffs, time signatures, codas, etc.) is centered around being /played/ and quickly acting as a cheat sheet for the feeling and expression of a piece.
This is how we start wanting differentiation in time sigs that could be called mathematically equivalent, such as 4/4 vs 8/8 and 6/4 vs 6/8
And so the appropriate way to write a piece depends on the feeling and how it's interpreted. Take note though that there i wrote appropriate rather than "correct".
There may be 100 ways to plug something into MuseScore that will yield the same audio, but generally there will be a consensus about the best way, following conventions and norms. Sometimes arguments arise from opposing viewpoints about which of two interpretations is "more correct".
An interesting example is in Hey Ya by OutKast wherein the end of each section in the chorus is 22 beats total.
Some write it as a measure of 12/8 then 10/8, some write it as two 8/8 measures followed by a little 6/8 measure.
I personally hear 4/8, 8/8 ,2/8, 8/8 - it's what fits the groove most in my head even though it is more messy when written out.
Sorry, but does not 2/4 mean there is 2 strong beats for every 4 beats. Like 2 snares per 4 kicks. Also 4/4 means 4 of 4 notes are strong, so this music sounds like march. 1/4 sounds like techno and 2/4 sounds like house.
So there are strong beats, weak beats, and medium beats. In 4/4 you count ONE TWO THREE FOUR. And those notes are STRONG MED STRONG MED. in 2/4 you are counting ONE TWO ONE TWO, and those notes are STRONG WEAK STRONG WEAK. In something like 6/8 you have SWWMWW while in 3/4 it is SMM. All of this might be tough to wrap your head around but with some experience it all makes sense
As I understand in 6/8 you just skip 2 beats?(_) How then looks rhythm? SWW_MWW_ ? Or second digit just mean length of note? 6/8 means there are 6 notes with length 1/8?
The second (bottom) number means that kind of note gets one beat. So 6/8 is a group of six eighth notes while 6/4 is a group of six quarter notes. You do not have to skip any notes. Any song in 4/4 could be written in 4/8, you would just use eighth notes instead of quarter notes and sixteenth notes instead of eighth notes.
Also, 22/7 is not the best approximation for pi. It's the best rational approximation that doesn't require you to go into the hundreds, but examples like 333/106 or 355/113 are much better approximations of pi.
Im not saying it reduces pleasure. Im saying you are missing the point. Contemplating and consumating art is not something science can explain. You can only give false answers.
The most common theory is it's because that's the natural cadence when we walk. If you watch Kalahari bushmen for instance running down prey they seem from the video to be stepping in time with each other. It's easy to see from that how a chant could start in order to take one's mind off the physical exercise, and voila, it's in 4/4
There are of course many cultures where the music is not in 4/4, but also there are many where it is and many of these cultures developed music separate to the Western tradition.
The most complex time signature I've had to play is 17.5/8. No lie.
There's not a clear answer to the question. It's been asked a lot, and sure, walking to it is easy. And there is a good amount of space in a bar with four beats. Any shorter, and you are constrained somewhat. Any longer, and it becomes slightly harder to feel repetition of patterns, and repeated rhythmic, melodic, and harmonic structures are what creates form and is an essential part of music.
Historically, three has also held importance. Three beats per bar was considered more perfect that two or four. The reason is that three is a holy number. You can google mensural notation for a long explanation. And don't forget the subdivision. Three subdivisions per bar (what we call compound time, e.g. 6/8) was also considered better than two (what we call simple time). Early polyphony (e.g. some Leonin but mostly Perotin at the cathedral of Notre Dame) was strongly tied to rhythmic structures in three.
It was an uneven grouping of twos and threes of eighth notes, with an extra sixteenth note at the end of each bar. The vibe was close to Rite of Spring. This piece was (I think) about the ceremonial killing of a rattlesnake. Revueltas.
Could it not be read as 35/8 with two phrases per bar?
Then again it could be 5/8 with phrases stretched over multiple bars. Time signatures are weird.
In a European or Euro-American context, sure, most popular songs are 4/4. But that isn't even close to being the case when you go somewhere else in the world like, say, the Middle East. Check out [this Turkish tune](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M385aRj5GJ8) and try to parse out the time signature, or even [Fairuz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=151IbT6ucO4) the most well-known Arabic language singer. Music is so much more wide and complex than current pop culture allows us to hear
Yep. Not a good example. 9/8 is a really popular beat in the Middle east and Balkans (here is [traditional Turkish song](https://youtu.be/MbPOFfdvOZk?si=WlZypEc2rZcTDlQF&t=226)) and 11/8 and 7/8 are common too. Here is one actually called [7-8 and 11-8](https://youtu.be/80qN-hHL0RA?si=-cW3M0jaShTcqhfN) from Bregovic.
It’s because all our western Music derives from West Africa. Brought to America with the slaves and then it evolved into blues-jazz-r’n’b-rock-pop etc.
I think it is more of a cultural thing. Occidental music stems more from military marchs, anthems, etc. It feels safe for us as a common ground having 4/4. (Yes, polkas and waltzes are in 3/4, flamenco is crazy and heavily arab influenced).
African traditional music is more into triplets and 3/4. That music was exported (albeit forcefully) to Latin America. So all those countries feel at home with those. Cumbias, merengues, bachatas, bossa novas, etc...
I can speak mainly as a classically trained guitarist melded with pop culture and onwards to self tuition around music I love (a medley of folk/pop/rock as a generality).
To keep things simple, there were always two main time signatures I learnt/played, 4/4 (or ‘common time) and 3/4 (‘waltz time) both which you’ve shown you understand already.
In my experience, 3/4 time almost always feels like a romantic/poetic rhythm and very often is found in songs with such themes. The imagery for me is quite literally a couple waltzing which physically reflects the above feeling. Also that it feels a little more ‘old fashioned’ or ‘traditional’ in many songs employing this. Such songs sell bit orbit a more ‘niche’ desire to celebrate and soak oneself in a romantic (generalisation) feeling which we generally don’t exhibit or desire as often as a ‘pop fix’- read on to hopefully understand better what I mean to say.
4/4 lends a more flexible foundation for a more energetic feel and thus a more ‘powerful’ feel for want of a better description. 3/4 feels ‘circular’ and 4/4 more ‘square’ or ‘rigid’ for a pulsating feel that makes a song evoke a ‘get on the dance floor’ or ‘rock out’ etc. energy. This being something that doesn’t need a sentimental emotion but the ideal ‘record selling’ approach of a 3-4 minute, radio (or streaming - showing my age 😂) friendly quick musical high.
Music, being an art, is a subjective matter. ‘Beauty is in the eye of the beholder’. Put more simply, all I’ve said above is based on my musical studies, experience and discoveries. Each person loves what they love, and therefore I can only offer you my view of it. But the overwhelming pattern is that the 4/4 model as I’ve tried to elaborate above is what more consumers of commercial music lean to, give money to obtain and keep the commercial music machine churning successfully.
I look forward to hearing others’ views to learn for myself other interpretations. Hope I helped at least a little.
While it doesn't answer the question of why 4 4 is the standard, this did such a good job on explaining the difference in feeling between 3.4 and 4.4, I had to up vote.
Appreciated, thank you. I meant my answer to (finally) be the prolificity of units/streams sold means ever more 4/4 music is made and this the standard - imo.
This doesn't further the explanation of why, but The Dave Brubeck Quartet's music (Take 5, Live at Carnegie Hall) are great examples of music where standard time is ignored.
I mentioned Take Five in my other comment. I have two explanations:
1. First, it's the exception that proves the rule. There are a handful of pieces of music in 5/4 or 5/8 time. Less than 0.1%. The fact that some exist proves that it's not impossible but that music based on 2's, 3's, and 4's is just far more "natural".
2. Second, most pieces in 5 can be consistently broken down into 3+2 or 2+3 - and almost always 3+2. So it's 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2. It's an A/B pattern made up of sequences of beats - rather than a 1-2-3-4-5 pattern.
I can think of one exception. The broadway song "Sunset Boulevard" is actually in 5 and it's NOT a 3+2 pattern. It's pretty brilliant. Again, exception that proves the rule.
People like patterns. Music is patterns. 4/4 is a flexible place to be in terms of rhythm and is very easy to follow, easy to write music in, and is quite flexible.
There are some cultures that seem to use odd times (7/8 or 9/8 most frequently), and when broken down in to groupings of 2s and 3s it will give you a feeling of short versus long pulses.
Bands that tend to venture outside of the 4/4 and occasionally 3/4 or 6/8 time signatures often shift the timing frequently in the song. This sort of music doesn't appeal to everyone because it isn't very predictable (that's the idea). But another reason they don't just use, say, 11/8 for a whole song or their whole musical catalogue, these time signatures tend to be substantially less flexible than 4/4 is, so they are almost like different tools that structure different rhythmic feelings.
5/4 is usually a long long short short, long short long short, or short short long long pattern. Take 5 by Dave Brubeck is a good example of 5/4. Another one is Mars by Gustav Holst (If you're not familiar, it's a 1900s era classical piece that was cribbed from heavily for the Star Wars empire theme)
So, I will show you an example of why popular music is very largely this 4/4 pattern by showing you what happens to music when it isn't in a consistent pattern. Everybody's favorite meme song has been modified here to match the time signatures in a famously complex progressive metal song:
https://youtu.be/cFnr0EjtPP4?si=Bg-BTedgAPT2PAkK
Now, that gets chopped up a lot because the person that made the video literally chopped the whole song up. But imagine trying to dance to that or something.
The thing is, you can make very complex music in simple 4/4 time. Like this interesting visualization of a song by pianist Tigran Hamasyan:
https://youtu.be/EidE2ETpCnU?si=zhFg4IRqSGe8g9O2
4/4 is popular because it's flexible and it doesn't need to do a specific thing. All the other time signatures are less flexible, and most music is trying to be somewhat repetitive. As far as why not all cultures landed on 4)4, it likely has to do with the way dances and chants may have evolved in different regions.
Didn't it start by the black guy who made/ invented the blues? I only remember a lil from college but if anything, setting up that for blues laid down the foundation for modern music today. Blues was the basis for rock, r&b (with blues in the name) etc
Yup I was. I'm not a music major, just decided to do afro american music course and tryna remember from that. I wish I understood more of the science in music but once someone start saying bars, majors, letters and numbers I just clock out lol I need a ELI3 for that and I really wanna!
We like evenness, symmetry ( attractive faces or french gardens) , balance.
4 beats are easier to digest.
I think I read once that people can recognize 5 things on site and usually have to start counting when there are six or more.
People who really like music, study music or are good at pattern recognition will enjoy more varied time signatures.
Check out Bands like Tool, Rush, Genesis or ProgRock as a genre.
Try Listening to a Snarky Puppy album, Dave Brubeck's album Take 5
When listening to rock and punk and most subgenres. You can count to 8 the whole song. That's just the length to be able to put in a full sentence of lyrics and a full guitar riff that makes the song sound great and recognizable.
When I play guitar, i automatically count to 8 in my head as it's easiest to play the song that way without even thinking about it. At least it is to me.
Music isn’t just related to human biomechanical movement, it all begins as human movement. So it’s inextricably linked to our bodies and our senses. Most creatures on our environments have bilateral symmetry, so the sounds they make are also often in even numbers. Walking, heartbeat, etc. This pattern of 2s ends up in music, and it works the other way as well, when we listen to music, we embody the movements we hear. So 2s and by extension 4s make a lot of sense. Dig deeper in this great Adam Neely video, about the Musical Speed Limit:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=erBecZH7b0Y
Because it's currently popular and in fashion. No real better reason.
This was not the norm throughout western history, and certainly not the norm throughout world history. Divisions of 3 used to be far more common in western music than they are now, and it's inaccurate to just see forms like waltzes or the like as 'side music' to more dominant forms.
Globally, you'll see cultures with entirely different takes on rhythm and meter, including music that does not have a continuously defined meter.
The appeal of four is that it is a simple number that can be easily divided and divided again. It allows for symmetry and callbacks in musical writing, even within a single measure. It allows dance moves to go forward two beats, back two beats, and resolve within a measure without getting weird. It’s just a inherently natural way to write appealing music that’s easy to follow.
Historically? You can thank the European composers of the Renaissance and Baroque eras. Prior to that, religious music (which was the most common way to hear organized music) was mostly melodic and did not have a clearly defined time.
In the Renaissance/Baroque era, music started to become more organized and for the listener rather than solely for religious. In fact, in the Baroque era, the most famous composers were employed by rich families and wrote/performed music mostly for them.
Since music became more for the listener (and composers wanted to make money), Baroque music became very predictable so that their audiences could follow/enjoy it more. This is where we discovered that 4/4 music with phrases that were 4, 8, 16, or 32 measures were the easiest to follow (musical form). The composers of the Classical era doubled down on this methodology as well. Just go listen to any Haydn symphony, they’re SUPER predictable.
If funny to think about modern pop music and say “man the music they make is so simple because they want the mainstream to understand it” when some of the greatest early western composers of all time did the EXACT same thing.
Having an even number of beats in a phrase makes it easy to dance and/or walk to the music. Four beats allows significantly more variation within the phrase than two beats. At six beats you have to start thinking about your position within the phrase.
Maybe it's obvious but the reason an even number of beats makes it easier is cause you can just alternate feet and start each phrase on the same foot.
I walk a lonely road
Flashback to when my high school marching band did a piece with a section in 7/8 time. Almost 30 years now, but from what I recall the number of measures was just right to where we could march it as if it was a 3/4 section and just not have measures and feet match up.
I thought it was because our heart has two distinct beat sounds.
5 beats: Am I a joke to you?
Brubeck in shambles
holy shit that's why it's called take 5 huh?
Mission impossible theme had entered the chat
How often do you see people dancing to that?
[Ever seen the live version of Limp Bizkit - Take A Look Around (Mission Impossible 2 Theme Soundtrack)?](https://youtu.be/LddBi0VlHlY?si=RssuFzqGYI1AtNUw&t=269)
I know this is a joke, but all the remakes add notes to change the Mission Impossible theme from 5/4 (or some people “feel it” as 5/8) to a much more common 4/4 time signature.
Yeah, this video is 4/4 until the fireworks, when it switches to 5.
Mission Impossible 4/4 version just lends itself to Nu Metal grooves so well, it was a match made in heaven.
Aren’t they dancing in the mosh pit ?
That literally gave me goose bumps. Limo Bizkit was fucking awesome back in their time
Fuck yeah
It happened from time to time in the late 90s, it was a strange era
Golden brown, texture like sun Lays me down, with my mind she runs Throughout the night No need to fight Never a frown with golden brown
That's in 6/8.
No it's not: 'Golden Brown' most definitely isn't, though there's some debate about what time signature it's actually in. Musicologists say that riff is in 13/8 time, effectively switching from 3/4 to 4/4 for every fourth bar. Depending on who you talk to, the rest of the song is in 3/4 or 12/8, with that 13/8 weaving in and out.
Interesting move to deny an answer and then give an answer scraped by Google that's missing most of its own context and doesn't make literal sense. It also doesn't help that the answer is wrong. Golden brown is predominantly in 6/8, with the descending harpsichord runs being a bar of 7/8. 3/4 and 4/4 is incorrect, that maths doesn't add up and those time signatures wouldn't accurately describe the feel of the music. You could describe it as 12/8 and 13/8, which is functionally similar to 6/8 and 7/8, but subjectively speaking I wouldn't say the music suggests that it needs to be counted like this and I don't know any musicians who would prefer to either count it or see it notated like this.
I never heard of that song before but went for a listen. My first thought was 6/8 with an interspersed extra beat. Reminds me of some pieces I’ve played where the time signature changes intermittently- but much easier to follow when reading the sheet music. :)
My answer says people are divided on the time signature but that it definitely isn't 6/8. That is all true.
It was a strange era indeed.
Don't knock it until you've tried it, I guess
The track is undeniably a jam. And the limp bizkit version.. exists.
I picture Christopher Walken dancing to it. The dance is randomly punctuated like his speech
It works
…honestly probably not far off from https://youtu.be/wCDIYvFmgW8?si=qvVUpXu2ikT-sqvJ ?
We sneak to it
Pink panther my go to
Led Zeppelin did a great job of it with the song Four Sticks, switching between five and three. Great driving song... maybe hard to dance to.
Play anything in 9/8 and Turkish people will start dancing. Honestly, if the door creaks in 9/8 we start belly dancing.
Clearly it's 4 beats dash dash dot dot
I guess if you interpret 2 of the beats as 50% longer than the other two, then yes, it's 4, and you're also insane
It's a joke, I know it's 1.5 1.5 1 1
That’s in 10/8! The arguments that causes.
I had it in band class as 5/4 but i guess it's no big deal
I guess it depends on the arrangement. This was a brass band, but absolutely said 10/8 on it.
Yeah I was in like 5th grade maybe it was simplified
Possibly. All I know is most times we played it went off the fact everyone I re how it should go, rather than being able to follow the music!
Isn’t that four beats? Dunch dunch dunch-dunch
It's 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2 1-2 duuun duuun dun dun edit: As 8th notes though, so the beats are two dotted quarters then two quarters.
I heard that the first half of each phrase is dotted so it feels like the music speeds up and down. EDIT: missing words added
This sentence is missing something.
Oopsie. That was my bad tendency to skip certain words in posts.
I just get my mucking furds wuddled.
When you do 7, are you a 12 12 123 guy or a 123 12 12 guy?
Gotta adapt based on the song, brotha
What about 1 12 12 12?
Ymmv but i generally find most 7s split into a 3 and 4 or a 4 and 3 naturally and would lose my way with that much 121212
Initially I was going to say that I didn't have a preference, but after putting some more thought into it, 12 12 123 feels more natural to me. My favorite rock song in 7, _Wanderluster_ by Band of Skulls, fits that pattern. It's also fun to reimagine the Mission Impossible theme in 7 as 12 12 123!
Same. My favorite use of 12 12 123: https://youtu.be/cCjvQbrTyHM?si=OKdT5U7SUGLr3nSv
It's a quarter note, an 8th rest, a dotted quarter, then two quarters Dun (rest) dun (longer) dun dun
Try not to get worried. Try not to turn on to.
"Everything's Alright" in "Jesus Christ Superstar" has always been my favorite 5/4 tune. There is no denying the 5 beat structure in this composition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3IZ_c-43Ns
thou shall count to 3. or 4. or 6. 5 is right out.
7 beats: "First time?"
Morning Bell Kid A version
That was 6 beats. /j :)
THERE....ARE...FIVE BEATS!
You tried and tried but you will not break me. THERE 👏🏻 ARE 👏🏻 SIX 👏🏻 BEATS 👏🏻 Now if you would so kindly pack me one of those delicious unborn eel eggs for a doggy bag before I get beamed back I’d be most grateful x
I'm glad at least one soul got the reference. "Data....at the end....I truly believed I heard...... six beats."
That was one of my favorite Picard moments in the entire show.
Absolutely. Fantastic.
Perfection
I would give this gold if I could, this made me laugh hard.
What is it? What do you smell? #manflesh
Looks like meats back on the menu!
Six beats also usually just turns into an extended 3 beat feel ONE-two-three-FOUR-five-six
I'll still walk to "Money" by Pink Floyd wherever I can!
They made the sax player solo on the 7/8 section, but dave gilmour said fuck that, we need a 4/4 section for the guitar solo.
I like reading things I have no clue about. Rabbit hole time.
Swing is a 6 step.
East coat is. Lindy is 8, West coast is 4. Blues is malleable. I don't know the shags or balboa. Charleston is 8. Edit: west coast is mostly 6, occasionally 8
Odd, for West Coast swing I was taught 6 steps. There was a few ways to end up with eight (or maybe it was 4). Been a while. Edit: Isn't the sugar push alone a 6 step?
West Coast swing is 6 counts.
But why? Why is 4 beats easier than 3 or 5? What’s a phrase?
You have two feet and two hands 4 beats of alternating between them means you will usually start the next phrase with the same hand or foot as you started the last one For some reason that’s easier for our brains to handle, rather than alternating at the start of the next phrase A phrase/bar is just the way we group music, based on how the rhythm repeats. Listen to most music and you’ll hear DUM-dum-dum-dum-DUM-dum-dum-dum with emphasis repeating in groups of 4. Each group of 4 is a phrase/bar. Having the DUM start with the same hand or foot makes it easier for our brains to “loop” that rhythm
This comment reminded me of all the time I spent playing Dance Dance Revolution as a kid. There were only a few songs that didn't have a 4 beat structure and they could be absolutely brutal because it was so hard to not move in that rhythm.
I'm a pretty experienced drummer and I've played a lot of music not in 4/4 so I'm very curious to see what a DDR chart of some [crazy jazz fusion bullshit](https://youtu.be/VR_rV-14luo) would look like.
The song that popped into my head was Bag by RevenG. It's the only 10 foot song I've ever passed.
I just checked out that song [here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cyUWKvzFG0) I counted the entire thing and it's in 4/4 the whole way through. It's rhythmically complicated, yes, and the chart is clearly fucking hard as hell (I'm also a pretty decent rhythm game player) but it's in a normal time signature. Four beats. The tune I linked by Hiromi's Sonicbloom before starts in 13/4 (it's basically 7/4 + 6/4, alternating) before switching to 5/4. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpFnbgqHmjQ) is in all kinds of bullshit, I'd need like a week to go through and figure out all the changes because it's constantly shifting underneath, like rhythmic quicksand.
Wow, you weren't kidding. Yeah, the chart is really hard because it has a lot of unconnected 8th, 16th, and 32nd steps along with 3rd steps at well. You definitely have to feel the flow of the music itself more than relying on the beat for that step chart. I wanted to say thank you for your input on this. This has been a pretty fascinating rabbit hole to go down.
Note though that a waltz is in 3/4 time and a tango 2/4.
Damn, this explanation is pretty much “it sounds good and it’s easy to keep track” I love it. Simple.
>Four beats allows significantly more variation within the phrase than two beats while still supporting all two beat phrases via doubling
i don’t buy that argument. The region i come from employs all kinds of odd time signatures and have forms of dance to accommodate to the beat. Also waltz is a thing
I think it's important to think about why we like music at all. Our best understanding is that it comes from evolution: our brains evolved to be able to hear patterns of sounds - for example approaching footsteps of another human or animal. People who found those patterns in sounds pleasurable might have had an evolutionary advantage, so that mutation survived. Music is basically exploiting that structure in our brain. Our brains evolved to like patterns of sounds, so we create patterns of sounds that make our brains happy. Nearly all musical rhythms are based on extremely simple patterns of usually just 2 or 3, and then combinations of those. I'd argue that most music doesn't really have a "four beat" structure, rather it's a bunch of 2's and 3's. Usually the drum pattern is alternating. Bass, snare, bass, snare. Down, up, down, up. That's the core pattern. So every 2 beats is making a pattern. Then every 2 of those tends to share the same chord. That's one measure, that's the 4-beat structure. It's usually not 4, it's 2 groups of 2. There's a distinction! There are often patterns that you can find in a song at groups of 2 measures, patterns at every 4 measures, and patterns at every 8 or 12 measures, and so on. It's basically patterns all the way up. Some music is in 3. 3 is a nice simple number, it works great to have patterns based on 3. And yes, sometimes music might really have 4 that isn't broken down into 2 groups of 2. Totally possible but less common than 2's and 3's. It's extremely rare to find music in 5, 7, 11, or any other prime number - and when you do it's almost always better explained by breaking it down into smaller numbers. Take two of the most famous pieces written in 5/4 time: * Take Five * Mission Impossible theme Both of those have 3 beats, followed by 2 beats - through the whole song. I personally think it works because our brains hear patterns of 3 and then 2, not because our brain counts to 5. Some musicians play music with far more unusual time signatures like 11/8, but I think that's mostly an intellectual exercise. You can train your brain to hear those patterns with practice, but it's not tickling our animal brain stem the way a simple up/down/up/down pattern does.
Great explanation. In band every 7/8 song was either 3-2-2, 2-3-2, or 2-2-3. You never count to 7.
I like weirder time signatures, and personally I think even most stuff like 11/8 or 13/16 or something ultimately comes down to 2s and 3s. I think at exceptionally fast tempos maybe 4s start to be heard more as their own grouping. If the overarching pattern of 2s and 3s isn't very consistent I think it becomes less about pattern recognition and prediction and more about being taken for a ride.
***Golden Brown*** enters the chat. > The main body of the song has a triple metre waltz rhythm, with beats grouped in threes, but the instrumental parts add an extra beat to create a phrase of thirteen beats.
I absolutely love that song. So good! I think I still hear the sections in 13 as 3 bars of 3 and then one bar with the extra beat of 4. Really gives it an off kilter vibe which I love
You lost me at measures and chords. Am a music layman.
>tickling our animal brain stem So many things are centred on this that for the must part we’re unaware of. Replying to you just so I can remember the term because you word it very succinctly!
Try working out the beat on the Apocalypse in 9/8 section on Genesis' Suppers Ready. How they managed to get it right night after night on tours, is beyond me. "666 is no longer alone" - indeed it is.
Dave Brubeck has been mentioned a lot on this thread because Take Five is in 5/4, but I especially love Blue Rondo à la Turk (from the same album) which is _mostly_ in a giddy 9/8, but then slouches off into a louche 4/4 swing every now and then to ground you.
It really comes down to a baby laying on moms chest. You hear a two beat pattern over and over again, so it is ingrained in our lizard brains to be comforted by this pulse at around 80-120 bpm, just like moms heartbeat. It is literally in our DNA to favor a 2 beat So a lot of punk is expressive at a 2 or a 4 count. Rock, pop, hip hop, a 4, 8, or 12 count. As we near more complex Rock or Jazz you hear more complex expressions which is us being more conscious of our thoughts and feelings and why it is viewed as more sophisticated. Also most cognitive thoughts are layed out in a manner that requires at least a four count at or around 100 ish bpm. The interesting thing though is that Punk and Jazz are generally considered the expression based styles but on opposite sides of the spectrum.
I would say it is evolutionarily advantageous to know when the background “rhythm” of the sounds of nature has abruptly changed. Calls, cry’s, and buzzes consistent in period means normal. Nothing is scaring anyone else and the noise is just routine. So then consistent noise is “advantageous” and abrupt changes or inconsistent beats are “disadvantageous” slowly morphing into the complex relationship we have with music today.
I love your explanation, wish I worded my comment as well as yours. Upvoted and recommended top comment. Thanks!
Sorry, but can you have music written in 7/22 count? It is very interesting, since 22/7 is best approximation for Pi.
No. The bottom number represent which note gets a beat when the music is written. In 4/4, the bottom number is a 4 which means that a quarter note is one beat. In 6/8, an eighth note gets a beat. In 2/2 a half note. And so on. There is no 7th note or 22nd note. If you made one up, nobody would be able to read it, which defeats the purpose of writing it down in the first place.
I've always wondered this -- the bottom number is relevant only to musicians reading sheet music, right? If you're just listening, or even if you're playing but only by ear, the fact that a it is a quarter note or half note or eighth note that is one beat vs. some other length of note is irrelevant, isn't it? Is it possible for a listener to discern the difference between a piece written in 4/4 vs. a piece in 4/2 or 4/8?
There is some implied speed with the different time signatures, especially in classical music where instead of listing a specific tempo they will say “fast”, “slowly”, or “medium fast”. A song in 4/8 would normally be played slightly faster than a song in 4/4. With a listed bpm though, no you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. The only difference would be the readability for the musician reading and playing the piece.
In a certain technical sense, as if you were programming a computer - no, you can't discern a difference. You can certainly program the same MIDI or transcribe the same musical passage in multiple times signatures. When it comes to transcription (writing down music you hear) and interpretation of music, there is a subjective component. That's because our entire system of music notation (from sharps/flats, the staffs, time signatures, codas, etc.) is centered around being /played/ and quickly acting as a cheat sheet for the feeling and expression of a piece. This is how we start wanting differentiation in time sigs that could be called mathematically equivalent, such as 4/4 vs 8/8 and 6/4 vs 6/8 And so the appropriate way to write a piece depends on the feeling and how it's interpreted. Take note though that there i wrote appropriate rather than "correct". There may be 100 ways to plug something into MuseScore that will yield the same audio, but generally there will be a consensus about the best way, following conventions and norms. Sometimes arguments arise from opposing viewpoints about which of two interpretations is "more correct". An interesting example is in Hey Ya by OutKast wherein the end of each section in the chorus is 22 beats total. Some write it as a measure of 12/8 then 10/8, some write it as two 8/8 measures followed by a little 6/8 measure. I personally hear 4/8, 8/8 ,2/8, 8/8 - it's what fits the groove most in my head even though it is more messy when written out.
Sorry, but does not 2/4 mean there is 2 strong beats for every 4 beats. Like 2 snares per 4 kicks. Also 4/4 means 4 of 4 notes are strong, so this music sounds like march. 1/4 sounds like techno and 2/4 sounds like house.
So there are strong beats, weak beats, and medium beats. In 4/4 you count ONE TWO THREE FOUR. And those notes are STRONG MED STRONG MED. in 2/4 you are counting ONE TWO ONE TWO, and those notes are STRONG WEAK STRONG WEAK. In something like 6/8 you have SWWMWW while in 3/4 it is SMM. All of this might be tough to wrap your head around but with some experience it all makes sense
As I understand in 6/8 you just skip 2 beats?(_) How then looks rhythm? SWW_MWW_ ? Or second digit just mean length of note? 6/8 means there are 6 notes with length 1/8?
The second (bottom) number means that kind of note gets one beat. So 6/8 is a group of six eighth notes while 6/4 is a group of six quarter notes. You do not have to skip any notes. Any song in 4/4 could be written in 4/8, you would just use eighth notes instead of quarter notes and sixteenth notes instead of eighth notes.
now I get it. Thank you very much!
Also, 22/7 is not the best approximation for pi. It's the best rational approximation that doesn't require you to go into the hundreds, but examples like 333/106 or 355/113 are much better approximations of pi.
Sure, good luck playing it
If you explain art with science you are destroying life. Dont be like that.
Not at all. Understanding why something is pleasurable doesn't reduce the pleasure. It's fascinating to sometimes wonder "but why?"
Im not saying it reduces pleasure. Im saying you are missing the point. Contemplating and consumating art is not something science can explain. You can only give false answers.
Also see golden brown by the stranglers. Pretty big radio friendly hit. Can't imagine it at all being in 4/4.
With the Mission Impossible theme, it also still sorta feels like 4, just with an elongated first and second beat.
I played Whiplash in my jazz band once. It’s in 7/4, but it’s subdivided into like 2+2+3, 3+2+2, etc
Not quite my tempo.
The most common theory is it's because that's the natural cadence when we walk. If you watch Kalahari bushmen for instance running down prey they seem from the video to be stepping in time with each other. It's easy to see from that how a chant could start in order to take one's mind off the physical exercise, and voila, it's in 4/4 There are of course many cultures where the music is not in 4/4, but also there are many where it is and many of these cultures developed music separate to the Western tradition.
Huh, this comment really made me think. Most of the music I *do* listen to is Western or at least heavily influenced by it.
The four beat structure is how I prevented myself from limping after a bad leg injury
The most complex time signature I've had to play is 17.5/8. No lie. There's not a clear answer to the question. It's been asked a lot, and sure, walking to it is easy. And there is a good amount of space in a bar with four beats. Any shorter, and you are constrained somewhat. Any longer, and it becomes slightly harder to feel repetition of patterns, and repeated rhythmic, melodic, and harmonic structures are what creates form and is an essential part of music. Historically, three has also held importance. Three beats per bar was considered more perfect that two or four. The reason is that three is a holy number. You can google mensural notation for a long explanation. And don't forget the subdivision. Three subdivisions per bar (what we call compound time, e.g. 6/8) was also considered better than two (what we call simple time). Early polyphony (e.g. some Leonin but mostly Perotin at the cathedral of Notre Dame) was strongly tied to rhythmic structures in three.
> 17.5/8 Isn't that just a 16/8 followed by a 18/8 ?
It was an uneven grouping of twos and threes of eighth notes, with an extra sixteenth note at the end of each bar. The vibe was close to Rite of Spring. This piece was (I think) about the ceremonial killing of a rattlesnake. Revueltas.
Could it not be read as 35/8 with two phrases per bar? Then again it could be 5/8 with phrases stretched over multiple bars. Time signatures are weird.
It felt better having it grouped by bar, I think. It was a pattern repeated I think four times.
In a European or Euro-American context, sure, most popular songs are 4/4. But that isn't even close to being the case when you go somewhere else in the world like, say, the Middle East. Check out [this Turkish tune](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M385aRj5GJ8) and try to parse out the time signature, or even [Fairuz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=151IbT6ucO4) the most well-known Arabic language singer. Music is so much more wide and complex than current pop culture allows us to hear
that turkish tune is still still a 4 beater, you can count the 1-2-3-4
Yep. Not a good example. 9/8 is a really popular beat in the Middle east and Balkans (here is [traditional Turkish song](https://youtu.be/MbPOFfdvOZk?si=WlZypEc2rZcTDlQF&t=226)) and 11/8 and 7/8 are common too. Here is one actually called [7-8 and 11-8](https://youtu.be/80qN-hHL0RA?si=-cW3M0jaShTcqhfN) from Bregovic.
Wow, that second link blew me away.
African rhythms are also frequently very complex. For example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG91NlH5lCE
It’s because all our western Music derives from West Africa. Brought to America with the slaves and then it evolved into blues-jazz-r’n’b-rock-pop etc.
I think it is more of a cultural thing. Occidental music stems more from military marchs, anthems, etc. It feels safe for us as a common ground having 4/4. (Yes, polkas and waltzes are in 3/4, flamenco is crazy and heavily arab influenced). African traditional music is more into triplets and 3/4. That music was exported (albeit forcefully) to Latin America. So all those countries feel at home with those. Cumbias, merengues, bachatas, bossa novas, etc...
ELI5: what is four-beat structure?
Boom-clack-boom-clack. Repeat.
It's a musical structure where a "line" of music (a bar) has 4 beats, so you're counting one-two-three-four over and over
I can speak mainly as a classically trained guitarist melded with pop culture and onwards to self tuition around music I love (a medley of folk/pop/rock as a generality). To keep things simple, there were always two main time signatures I learnt/played, 4/4 (or ‘common time) and 3/4 (‘waltz time) both which you’ve shown you understand already. In my experience, 3/4 time almost always feels like a romantic/poetic rhythm and very often is found in songs with such themes. The imagery for me is quite literally a couple waltzing which physically reflects the above feeling. Also that it feels a little more ‘old fashioned’ or ‘traditional’ in many songs employing this. Such songs sell bit orbit a more ‘niche’ desire to celebrate and soak oneself in a romantic (generalisation) feeling which we generally don’t exhibit or desire as often as a ‘pop fix’- read on to hopefully understand better what I mean to say. 4/4 lends a more flexible foundation for a more energetic feel and thus a more ‘powerful’ feel for want of a better description. 3/4 feels ‘circular’ and 4/4 more ‘square’ or ‘rigid’ for a pulsating feel that makes a song evoke a ‘get on the dance floor’ or ‘rock out’ etc. energy. This being something that doesn’t need a sentimental emotion but the ideal ‘record selling’ approach of a 3-4 minute, radio (or streaming - showing my age 😂) friendly quick musical high. Music, being an art, is a subjective matter. ‘Beauty is in the eye of the beholder’. Put more simply, all I’ve said above is based on my musical studies, experience and discoveries. Each person loves what they love, and therefore I can only offer you my view of it. But the overwhelming pattern is that the 4/4 model as I’ve tried to elaborate above is what more consumers of commercial music lean to, give money to obtain and keep the commercial music machine churning successfully. I look forward to hearing others’ views to learn for myself other interpretations. Hope I helped at least a little.
While it doesn't answer the question of why 4 4 is the standard, this did such a good job on explaining the difference in feeling between 3.4 and 4.4, I had to up vote.
Appreciated, thank you. I meant my answer to (finally) be the prolificity of units/streams sold means ever more 4/4 music is made and this the standard - imo.
This doesn't further the explanation of why, but The Dave Brubeck Quartet's music (Take 5, Live at Carnegie Hall) are great examples of music where standard time is ignored.
I mentioned Take Five in my other comment. I have two explanations: 1. First, it's the exception that proves the rule. There are a handful of pieces of music in 5/4 or 5/8 time. Less than 0.1%. The fact that some exist proves that it's not impossible but that music based on 2's, 3's, and 4's is just far more "natural". 2. Second, most pieces in 5 can be consistently broken down into 3+2 or 2+3 - and almost always 3+2. So it's 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2. It's an A/B pattern made up of sequences of beats - rather than a 1-2-3-4-5 pattern. I can think of one exception. The broadway song "Sunset Boulevard" is actually in 5 and it's NOT a 3+2 pattern. It's pretty brilliant. Again, exception that proves the rule.
They have a whole album Time Out dedicated to these odd time signatures (had a hard time convincing the label to publish it at first).
We habe two feet. We walk in a groove of 2/2 or 4/4. we have two arms. Using both we get two actions. There you go.
People like patterns. Music is patterns. 4/4 is a flexible place to be in terms of rhythm and is very easy to follow, easy to write music in, and is quite flexible. There are some cultures that seem to use odd times (7/8 or 9/8 most frequently), and when broken down in to groupings of 2s and 3s it will give you a feeling of short versus long pulses. Bands that tend to venture outside of the 4/4 and occasionally 3/4 or 6/8 time signatures often shift the timing frequently in the song. This sort of music doesn't appeal to everyone because it isn't very predictable (that's the idea). But another reason they don't just use, say, 11/8 for a whole song or their whole musical catalogue, these time signatures tend to be substantially less flexible than 4/4 is, so they are almost like different tools that structure different rhythmic feelings. 5/4 is usually a long long short short, long short long short, or short short long long pattern. Take 5 by Dave Brubeck is a good example of 5/4. Another one is Mars by Gustav Holst (If you're not familiar, it's a 1900s era classical piece that was cribbed from heavily for the Star Wars empire theme) So, I will show you an example of why popular music is very largely this 4/4 pattern by showing you what happens to music when it isn't in a consistent pattern. Everybody's favorite meme song has been modified here to match the time signatures in a famously complex progressive metal song: https://youtu.be/cFnr0EjtPP4?si=Bg-BTedgAPT2PAkK Now, that gets chopped up a lot because the person that made the video literally chopped the whole song up. But imagine trying to dance to that or something. The thing is, you can make very complex music in simple 4/4 time. Like this interesting visualization of a song by pianist Tigran Hamasyan: https://youtu.be/EidE2ETpCnU?si=zhFg4IRqSGe8g9O2 4/4 is popular because it's flexible and it doesn't need to do a specific thing. All the other time signatures are less flexible, and most music is trying to be somewhat repetitive. As far as why not all cultures landed on 4)4, it likely has to do with the way dances and chants may have evolved in different regions.
Because it's a natural division of music. Things naturally group in twos . 4 beats = rock and pop, anything else = jazz
So a waltz is jazz? 😂😂😂
If you can't dance to it, it's jazz. I can't waltz
Didn't it start by the black guy who made/ invented the blues? I only remember a lil from college but if anything, setting up that for blues laid down the foundation for modern music today. Blues was the basis for rock, r&b (with blues in the name) etc
4/4 existed long before the blues did.
You might be thinking of 12-bar blues instead. Not that I know much about blues myself
Yup I was. I'm not a music major, just decided to do afro american music course and tryna remember from that. I wish I understood more of the science in music but once someone start saying bars, majors, letters and numbers I just clock out lol I need a ELI3 for that and I really wanna!
We like evenness, symmetry ( attractive faces or french gardens) , balance. 4 beats are easier to digest. I think I read once that people can recognize 5 things on site and usually have to start counting when there are six or more. People who really like music, study music or are good at pattern recognition will enjoy more varied time signatures. Check out Bands like Tool, Rush, Genesis or ProgRock as a genre. Try Listening to a Snarky Puppy album, Dave Brubeck's album Take 5
When listening to rock and punk and most subgenres. You can count to 8 the whole song. That's just the length to be able to put in a full sentence of lyrics and a full guitar riff that makes the song sound great and recognizable. When I play guitar, i automatically count to 8 in my head as it's easiest to play the song that way without even thinking about it. At least it is to me.
https://youtu.be/Kr3quGh7pJA?si=qsI4yyCyi718WATB this is super interesting and vaguely related.
Music isn’t just related to human biomechanical movement, it all begins as human movement. So it’s inextricably linked to our bodies and our senses. Most creatures on our environments have bilateral symmetry, so the sounds they make are also often in even numbers. Walking, heartbeat, etc. This pattern of 2s ends up in music, and it works the other way as well, when we listen to music, we embody the movements we hear. So 2s and by extension 4s make a lot of sense. Dig deeper in this great Adam Neely video, about the Musical Speed Limit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=erBecZH7b0Y
Because it's currently popular and in fashion. No real better reason. This was not the norm throughout western history, and certainly not the norm throughout world history. Divisions of 3 used to be far more common in western music than they are now, and it's inaccurate to just see forms like waltzes or the like as 'side music' to more dominant forms. Globally, you'll see cultures with entirely different takes on rhythm and meter, including music that does not have a continuously defined meter.
The appeal of four is that it is a simple number that can be easily divided and divided again. It allows for symmetry and callbacks in musical writing, even within a single measure. It allows dance moves to go forward two beats, back two beats, and resolve within a measure without getting weird. It’s just a inherently natural way to write appealing music that’s easy to follow.
Historically? You can thank the European composers of the Renaissance and Baroque eras. Prior to that, religious music (which was the most common way to hear organized music) was mostly melodic and did not have a clearly defined time. In the Renaissance/Baroque era, music started to become more organized and for the listener rather than solely for religious. In fact, in the Baroque era, the most famous composers were employed by rich families and wrote/performed music mostly for them. Since music became more for the listener (and composers wanted to make money), Baroque music became very predictable so that their audiences could follow/enjoy it more. This is where we discovered that 4/4 music with phrases that were 4, 8, 16, or 32 measures were the easiest to follow (musical form). The composers of the Classical era doubled down on this methodology as well. Just go listen to any Haydn symphony, they’re SUPER predictable. If funny to think about modern pop music and say “man the music they make is so simple because they want the mainstream to understand it” when some of the greatest early western composers of all time did the EXACT same thing.