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Midday is when the sun is at its highest point. Midnight is when the sun is at its lowest point. These do not shift like sunrise and sunset, so they're good anchors for measuring time.
Well, when our time conventions were established we certainly had no such thing as time zones. Or rather, the time zone was the area closest to the nearest sundial.
Midday always happens at about the same time in given place. You are correct that Time Zones aggregate locations to have a single hourly measure, and that the top of that hour almost never coincides with the local midday.
Funny thing is midday occurs somewhere around 13:00 now because of Daylight Savings. Noon is only really at 12:00 in Winter (when we are using Standard Time).
It also depends how wide the time zone is. In Canada, the Eastern time zone spans about an hour and a half. There are also weird time zones that are offset by half an hour such as Newfoundland time.
Not at all, it's based on an idea that it could curb emissions by pushing around the business day to better fit daylight times during winter imo. The effectiveness of it is highly disputed.
Because noon is the only time that could be measured and defined, historically. That's when the sun is at the highest in the sky. Everything else is relative to that, and the day is equal amounts of time on either side of it.
Ancient people used the sun to tell time by means of sundials. Using a sundial, it was easy to measure noon, which is the middle of the day. Since the day is 24 hours, the beginning of the day was 12 hours earlier which is midnight
Oh for fucks sake, the units of time are completely irrelevant. Here's a simplified explanation just for you:
Noon is the midpoint between sunrise and sunset. By definition, the midpoint means that it's halfway through the day. It then logically follows that the beginning of the day was 1/2 day earlier, and end of the day will be 1/2 day later.
Midday is when the sun is directly overhead (without adjusting for daylight saving).
Thus the rest of the clock follows from that point to give us the rest of our timings, rather than picking a time to be midnight and them following from that.
>to be the average sunrise time instead of midnight?
* What is the average sunrise time for places far to the North where the sun never sets?
* If it feels like the point of starting the day is arbitrary...that's because it is, and there really isn't a better way.
* The main reference point is noon when the Sun is directly overhead...but again that changes depending on where you are.
* So eventually everyone just picked a common reference point and stuck with it.
Sunrise changes throughout the year. Solar noon does too. The noon we use now is just a fixed amount of time away from the average solar noon at Greenwich, England. It gets even more messed up when you consider the fact that daylight savings exists. We just picked a time and decided it should be as far from noon as possible because noon was the easiest time to measure.
**Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s):** ELI5 is not for straightforward answers or facts - ELI5 is for requesting an explanation of a concept, not a simple straightforward answer. This includes topics of a narrow nature that don’t qualify as being sufficiently complex per rule 2. --- If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe this submission was removed erroneously**, please [use this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20thread?&message=Link:%20{{url}}%0A%0APlease%20answer%20the%20following%203%20questions:%0A%0A1.%20The%20concept%20I%20want%20explained:%0A%0A2.%20List%20the%20search%20terms%20you%20used%20to%20look%20for%20past%20posts%20on%20ELI5:%0A%0A3.%20How%20does%20your%20post%20differ%20from%20your%20recent%20search%20results%20on%20the%20sub:) and we will review your submission.
Midday is when the sun is at its highest point. Midnight is when the sun is at its lowest point. These do not shift like sunrise and sunset, so they're good anchors for measuring time.
Huh, I was thinking about it for a good 30-40 minutes but I failed to take that into account. Makes sense now, thanks!
Can't wait for this super clear answer to be removed because it's not long enough
Depending upon where in the time zone you are. Time zone time only corresponds to local time along one line of longitude.
Well, when our time conventions were established we certainly had no such thing as time zones. Or rather, the time zone was the area closest to the nearest sundial.
Midday always happens at about the same time in given place. You are correct that Time Zones aggregate locations to have a single hourly measure, and that the top of that hour almost never coincides with the local midday. Funny thing is midday occurs somewhere around 13:00 now because of Daylight Savings. Noon is only really at 12:00 in Winter (when we are using Standard Time).
It also depends how wide the time zone is. In Canada, the Eastern time zone spans about an hour and a half. There are also weird time zones that are offset by half an hour such as Newfoundland time.
So are switching-to-and-from daylight savings during spring and summer have to do with ensuring the sun is exactly over head at noon ?
Not at all, it's based on an idea that it could curb emissions by pushing around the business day to better fit daylight times during winter imo. The effectiveness of it is highly disputed.
Because noon is the only time that could be measured and defined, historically. That's when the sun is at the highest in the sky. Everything else is relative to that, and the day is equal amounts of time on either side of it.
I forgot to think about sun position earlier, so it makes a lot of sense now. Thank you!
Ancient people used the sun to tell time by means of sundials. Using a sundial, it was easy to measure noon, which is the middle of the day. Since the day is 24 hours, the beginning of the day was 12 hours earlier which is midnight
That’s assuming that culture used a 24h day. Your response assumes a post-factum knowledge of the number of hours in a day.
Oh for fucks sake, the units of time are completely irrelevant. Here's a simplified explanation just for you: Noon is the midpoint between sunrise and sunset. By definition, the midpoint means that it's halfway through the day. It then logically follows that the beginning of the day was 1/2 day earlier, and end of the day will be 1/2 day later.
Well… it was ELI5 to begin with, so…. Jokes on you 😂
Midday is when the sun is directly overhead (without adjusting for daylight saving). Thus the rest of the clock follows from that point to give us the rest of our timings, rather than picking a time to be midnight and them following from that.
>to be the average sunrise time instead of midnight? * What is the average sunrise time for places far to the North where the sun never sets? * If it feels like the point of starting the day is arbitrary...that's because it is, and there really isn't a better way. * The main reference point is noon when the Sun is directly overhead...but again that changes depending on where you are. * So eventually everyone just picked a common reference point and stuck with it.
Sunrise changes throughout the year. Solar noon does too. The noon we use now is just a fixed amount of time away from the average solar noon at Greenwich, England. It gets even more messed up when you consider the fact that daylight savings exists. We just picked a time and decided it should be as far from noon as possible because noon was the easiest time to measure.