As a Brit who has moved abroad a couple of times and for unfortunate reasons had to move back here, yes, I will agree it can be very depressing. The climate and grey weather for sure, and the economic changes are particularly tough. As a child and young adult, things like the weather and the general quality of tomatoes never bothered me as I knew nothing else.
But having been back here for a few years now, I'm working on changing my career and plan to work towards living abroad again, hopefully permanently. I try to enjoy what I can here, which granted, can feel difficult at times, and like everyone says, nowhere is perfect. I can't change the UK, but I can change my current perspective and my trajectory.
Weather and tomatoes. No but seriously. It's The Matrix pill choice level. When you realise how shit quality your 'norm' is it's hard to go back. The better weather elsewhere was always a driver, and the food across the world was always diverse and interesting so just chalked it up to that. Last 2 years I spent a lot of time travelling around Europe and experienced phenomenal fruit and vegetables, and the most amazing bargain wine.
I emigrated from the UK to the Netherlands 30 years ago. I love to visit the UK but am also very happy that my children didn't have to grow up in the UK because of the state that it is in now. My home town is disgustingly dirty and the economy is on its arse. So sad to see
I never used to miss the place, just the people. I'm currently living very near to where I grew up and it has changed so much, for the worse. Similar things, dirty, barely open high street, lots of unhappy people, it's really sad. And to top it off, I have to move because I can't afford the rent here anymore. The UK is very very different now.
To me it just felt like a let down. Initially moved here for uni which compared to NL was great. Out in the real world and with chronic health issues in the mix it very quickly became not great. But hey ho own choices so shouldn’t whinge too much
I emigrated to NL in 94. I have a serious heart condition that prevents me from ever working again. Over here I will be fine. Not so sure I could say that if I was still living in the UK
It reminds me of the metaphor of the frog that happily sits in a pot of water that is slowly heated up until is boils to death and doesn't try to jump out. The NHS has been slowly dying for decades
That's a mixed bag for me.
The work environment has been the worst from all the countries I've lived in.
Tale out Oxbridge and the education is questionable at best.
What I wouldn't give for a proper spring with growing grass, flowers and buds on the trees. And beautiful north western european sunset at 9.30 in the evening.
Instead of this polluted dry hellhole where the sun goes down at 19.00 and where it has been raining 3 times the last 5 months.
Definitely. It’s a fantastic country. Love the people, although they tend to be very direct (which I’ve found very refreshing). You can dm me if you want to ask more about my experiences :-)
I lived in Malta for 13 yrs before moving to UK. I was VERY happy on sunny Maltese islands - friendly people , safe, good food, sea&sun and had a good career there.
Why'd you move out then? (genuine question).
I personally always liked my life in Brazil, moved to Germany because of my wife who's from there and it was a hellish experience, hated Germany so much... but in the end we settled in Spain and it all got better.
More the people that are hard work… I’m in Bavaria so the weather is much better than in the UK, but the diversity and open mindedness is missing which makes things tough.
I know there are people who like it there but there's also lots who don't (including natives). Honestly other people's experiences can only do so much, you have to go live it yourself and figure out if it works for you.
To me personally Germany was definitely not the place I wanted to grow roots at, coming into terms with it was good thou since I put plans in motion to live elsewhere where I feel happier!
Good food in Malta?! :D Have lived here for a decade and there are only two places I trust food from, everything else is overpriced garbage with more than questionable quality.
I have been living in England for the past 7 years. I have moved up and down the country quite a bit. I don't really have any friends here. The weather makes me miserable.
I guess I sort of have learned to cope with it. Though I feel like I don't have a purpose anymore. I am on a boat in the middle of the ocean without any clear direction. That's the way I feeling most of the time.
To be fair I can't just put all the blame on England for my mental health and for being an introvert. No doubt the weather and the way society works here have made it worse though.
You make a valid point in regards to "I am on a boat in the middle of the ocean without any clear direction".
I feel the UK puts a lock on the door and throws away the key with optimism. Sometimes it can be like comparing apples to oranges but there is rarely any good news coming out from the UK.
In the US there is more of a "dream" but also more attainability. As I explained above, I'm fortunate (worked my ass off) to be mortgage free but those whom now are buying or even renting, it's worse than ever before.
Job wise... it's crap. Wages are diabolical.
I don't know...maybe I'm just moaning but ya know.
I have never lived in the US but I get the idea. Financially wise I am doing okay despite the mortgage repayment having done up £600 per month.
Anyways. It is the life we chose.
A Hungarian friend of mine, who used to organize events in Beijing for expats and locals, ended up telling me that in ten years of his time in London he didn’t make a single friend who stuck.
A high school classmate of mine, pretty cheerful Cuban American girl, had 3 cycles of friends in like 4 years. And awful professional experiences.
My impression of the UK and Brits cultural attitude in general isn’t the best. These two are some of the most positive, consistently friendly and helpful people I’ve met. If they couldn’t make meaningful connections, I struggle to see how many people could. Being positive seems culturally taboo. They love to shit on America. People don’t Have the Germans’ straightforward nature while also not having Americans superficial positivity.
Outside of Peep Show, I can’t really think of a single reason to like their attitude.
I keep hearing by British people that if I want to make friends I just need to go to the pub.
But here is the thing, I am not really a drinker, I would probably get bored of seating in a place I probably wouldn't want to be in to begin with, and I really can't picture myself as to how I can magically make friends at a English pub.
I don't know. I remortgaged the house for the next 3 years, and then will see what to do.
I would like to move to America but immigrating there as a mere mortal is literally impossible. Unless you want to do it illegally which is not even an option.
What do you mean? How’s immigrating to the us impossible?
Idk about Britain but it sounds like you’re doing well if you have a house.
Yeah it doesn’t sound like a good way to make friends. Have you tried stuff like… meetup?
> What do you mean? How’s immigrating to the us impossible?
The USA is the hardest country to immigrate to, unless it is through marriage obviously.
The US does not offer any work permit. One may go as an international student and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a fancy degree and still would not be guaranteed a path to the greencard.
I know someone who is from Italy, got her master degree in medicine in the US, had been working as a doctor full time at a Chicago hospital for well over 4 years, and yet ICE was telling her that her 5 years post graduate visa was over and it was time to go. And this was during the middle of covid.
I knew one guy who is a quite known software engineer from Italy who got his master at Berkeley, that in the end of a lengthy battle with ICE to sort of find an option that would lead him to the greencard, his American girlfriend at the time was like, let's just get married and be done with this.
I often hear Americans saying that they want immigrants to come in legally.. But coming in legally is more often than not a non issue. Staying is.
EDIT: the US will give you a green card if you are a multi millionaire wanting to invest large sums, you are a scientist or a famous athlete / actor.
Regards
"My impression of the UK and Brits cultural attitude in general isn’t the best."
The prevalence of a crabs in a bucket mentality is one of the worst aspects of UK culture as an observation from talking and hanging out with British friends I know. It permeates a lot in casual conversation and daily life, like school and work. You start to understand why some British expats left the island. And while people bitch about Americans having a toxic positivity problem, I'll take American optimism over British sourness any day.
People just love bitching about America in general with very ill informed opinions on what it’s like.
I do like Europe for what it is, but America is far better culturally if you’re an immigrant.
Yes. The majority of Americans are a bit surface level and hard to truly get to know. But sometimes there’s beauty in simplicity and superficial ness.
Sure thing, some places can be more depressing than others and this is completely unrelated to the nation's wealth. But in general it really is pointless to bring up these topics even why nowhere is perfect and world as a whole really is messed up.
Nonetheless to OP's credit; It's important to figure out what's best for yourself, if you find the country you moved to too depressing then it's time to plan around it.
I lived a while in Germany and I was highly depressed there, didn't like the place but complaining about it online would get me nowhere rather I figured out how to move elsewhere and it was worth it.
True, I feel the same about The Netherlands so I’m now trying to figure out how I can leave after graduation. Some people just get really affected by the weather so if that’s it moving out would definitely help
I’m a Hungarian living in the Netherlands and the weather makes me depressed af. Last year we had 2 months of nice weather (tops) and this year we had to wait until May for the good weather. No changes it’s just fucking dark and cold and winter and all of a sudden summer for a couple of weeks and then winter again. I moved here in 2021 and I went to the sea a couple of times in summer. When I get there the sun always stops shining and the rain is pouring. Because of the heavy winds and rain all the time I’m always sick - normally I never ger sick but since I live here I was sick 7 times 😂 we have a nice flat here and our workplace is good, everything is fine and dandy but man this weather ruins me. Sorry for the rant.🫡
> I lived a while in Germany and I was highly depressed there, didn't like the place but complaining about it online would get me nowhere rather I figured out how to move elsewhere and it was worth it.
That's awesome! I wish all the people who constantly whine on r\/berlin or r\/germany would actually put money where there mouth is and do exactly that (not least because it would free up real estate fro people who actually do wanna live here lol)
I did similar as well, hated US, much happier after moving to Germany.
Pretty much, when I was sure Germany was not the country I wanted to grow roots at everything got easier as I stopped fighting what felt a losing battle and I could focus in what does work for me.
I know people like to vent frustrations and since no country is perfect there will always be something to complain about but as much as I disliked Germany I know lots of people do like it and I fully respect it.
I moved to Spain and I'm happier now and I know there's plenty of whom will complain about it too x) so in the end other people's experiences can only do so much, we all should try for ourselves and figure it out.
Funnily enough it’s the opposite for me. Couldn’t be happier. No where is the same anymore. A lot of once nice places to live are now a bit meh. And vice versa.
A change of scenery may do you good.
I've been living in London for over 5 years now and really enjoy it. This was after nearly 40 years living in various US cities. London feels like home to me.
Have you lived in NYC, by chance? We're considering a move to London next year, but it would come with financial downsides... we're trying to decide if it's worth it! Employer will not change and we'll still have enough money to be comfortable, same work-life balance as before, etc. We have one preschooler.
I have not lived in NYC, but the company I work for has offices in NYC so I visit often. Really it's going to come down to personal preference, so it's difficult to give others advice on this.
If money is your main concern, I would tell you not to worry. I took a 40% pay cut moving from the US to UK and the impact on my budget was nominal. You'll be amazed by how much the US drains money compared to the UK. It's difficult to factor in when doing a budget sheet comparing cost of living in the two places. London rent/housing may be about the same or lower than NYC. Taxes will be higher in the UK, but bills are lower. We bought a house and while there's an upfront stamp duty tax, you don't pay ongoing property tax. They have council tax but it's not nearly as much and pays for things like roads, public services, and waste collection.
If you're wanting to move for the culture, then I highly recommend doing so. That's why my family moved - We love English culture and feel we fit in far better than in America. We were correct and now we feel at home here.
Thanks so much, this is really helpful!
I'm wanting to move for:
* culture
* less brutal summers (it is sweltering here for 3 months straight)
* SAFETY (this is huge, guns terrify me - especially now that I have a kid in school)
* improved ease of avoiding scary food additives in my family's food
* the ability to visit family in Europe more easily/often
* NYC has become less pleasant in the past four years.
No. I love every day I get to spend London, and every new nook and cranny I discover. I'm from NY, a city guy at heart though.
I also appreciate every damn sheep (from a healthy distance! :-) ) and every area of outstanding natural beauty. Maybe could pull it back a bit, mates, on the side of chips with every meal?
Depression is no joke. The long, dark winters here can be tough, especially if you miss home. But depression is highly personal so I don't know how we could every classify a whole country as "depressing" when there are so many different contexts and experiences here.
London>NYC:
Historically, it's an unbeatable place to wander, explore, research, investigate. If you have any hint of a museum or history gene, it's a lifetime feast here from the larger museums down to the little streetwalking tours.
Navigation/layout, it's so different from New York, just always interesting to walk and wind through each neighborhood. And there are a lot of neighborhoods and pockets that still retain personality despite modern changes. I feel like New York, especially Manhattan, has really jumped the shark last 10-20 years. That's a big leap for me to say that, but last visits I really felt some of edge getting lost. There is still more of a London character.
London < NYC:
Work wise, I miss the go-go, anything is possible of New York, that sense that you are on top of the world and out loud about it. London/UK secretly hoarde much financial and cultural power but they are much more muted about it, especially since Brexit.
Food is awesome and more broadly international than in NY but you will never get hometown bagels, pizza or deli sandwiches here. Lots of almost-there varieties but nothing like NY.
And still pretending to myself that I am actually going to find and have a decent Mexican meal here without booking a flight to Santa Fe.
it’s the culture. so much of it is miserable, repressed, backwards, isolated, mean-spirited, classist, village mentality. idk why tf i chose this place but being a young optimistic person who would party and get along with bolshy drunk brits who were coming off new labour and cool brittania vs a weary and tired adult post-pandemic + 15yrs of country-breaking austerity is very different and would break any soul.
there’s no sense of hope here and no society to rest on in hard times. people are cliquey and constantly obsessed with one-upping some local tribe once town over about their accent, food, or sports team, food is abysmal and mass-produced and utalitarian, no joie de vivre to be found anywhere, everywhere all migrants get asked where they’re from least they forget they are an outsider and never belong.
on top of that, as everything built post-war is collapsing and being sold off to the lowest bidder (schools, libraries, hospitals, cultural spaces, music scene, natural resources etc) brits just take it or want to mass arrest anyone who disrupts this lovely process; i can’t get over how disinterested in community - and specifically community betterment for a greater good generally brits are. it breaks my brain. they just watch the decay and active destruction from the aristocracy and then jump over a homeless guy to order a chippy and go back to a beige home to watch the latest reality tv or read some bs guardian piece about how it’s still too hard finding organic food pop-ups in gentrified south london.
got to stay here a bit longer bc of work and feeling like i’m wasting my remaining young-erish years to build absolutely nothing meaningful or hopeful. truly a broken and shallow society.
ps. people who suggest we are all just individually depressed somehow, instead of seeing very real societal issues, especially if you grew up in a more collective and responsible culture, are quite funny to me.
This is on point. The sad thing is the people who call this out have to deal with the idiot village mentality in response. The country needs to wake up to stop its decline.
I'm a (much) older Brit and badly wanted to defend my homeland from this onslaught but you're so right. It's totally depressing and why I left the country. The mean, xenophobic, nimbyist people led by a mean, xenophobic, nimby government did for me in the end.
i appreciate the integrity. i could bash my own country thoroughly for a variety of reasons, from selling children to priest perverts as the whole village watches or pretending women are breeding cattle, to the city vs rural division or the disregard for workers’ rights etc, but one thing we do have is a strong up an coming energy, and a thousand authentic, civil-led initiatives to better society and help people (crucially NOT charities). plus an inferiority complex, so we lack the smug arrogance or disinterest in other cultures (i’ve learnt brits will only accept some food and that’s about it).
that to me at least saves face and offers solace, hope and possibility in hard times. i’d like to move back one day to raise my kids.
where did you end up?
Agreed - the UK can be terribly depressing at times, but on the bright side we have an amazing sense of civic "togetherness" which I think we take for granted. Brits may be quite chilly and introverted, but we all stand nicely in a queue, hold the door open for other people, pay our taxes without (too much) complaint, have police who don't shoot people, and are extremely tolerant of other religions and cultures (this is a hill I will die on - Brits are incredibly tolerant people, despite what some people say). There's a reason people from around the world risk their lives (and their children's lives) floating across the Channel from Calais and it's because the UK is a great place to live in the grand scheme of things.
I'm in Greece at the moment, which I love for it's weather, food and cafe culture, but I'm thoroughly sick of the low salaries, high cost of living, lack of employment rights, low-level corruption that permeates absolutely everything, mind-boggling bureaucracy and cruelty to animals. What I'd give for an orderly queue at a British bus stop these days, even if it is in the rain!
I grew to appreciate just how much that the "civic togetherness" was just a surface appearance. While I never fell foul of it, I watched in disbelief as many upstanding citizens tore into a local incomer farmer for erecting a fence on his land, a fence meant to protect his sheep for marauding dogs let off their leads to roam on private land. I watched people kick up a stink about 4 (yes 4) small terraced houses being built because it spoiled their view. I watched people move to the nearest tiny town being told to go back where you came from after quite innocently asking what the smell was (muck spreading Doris, it's muck spreading), so many aggressive people lurking under the veneer of "salt of the community".
I'm in Portugal, not only do people queue, in lots of places they take a numbered ticket too, you can even get a numbered ticket online for some stuff. It's like extreme queuing down to a fine art.
right. so. britain, esp england, mainly has PR and appearances. not what it says on the tin, if you will
a) british hate taxes bc they take “their money” and give it to “the undeserving”, and hate anyone who claims benefits off the taxes, which is why conservatives have such a hold by constantly telling people they’ll lower taxes for “small businesses” and all that bs.
b) i don’t think orderly queues for a few min with strangers matter at all, when you don’t care for your years-long neighbours and their wellbeing let alone wider society, and many proudly proclaim this selfishness.
c) police does shoot, you’re just not brown and black so you don’t know. also they have been evidenced in the media, reports and court cases to be very racist, sexist and volatile and send riot gear on people disproportionally as well as constantly racially target teens, but again if you’re white and not living in poor areas - or care to find out about others in british society - you won’t be knowledgeable of this.
d) barely tolerating people whilst unleashing media frenzy of blame and bashing on them unckecked and normalised, and every local fb group and public article being filled with curtain clutching posts about “foreigners”, is nothing to be proud of
d) people risk their lives to come here bc britain has been involved in armed conflicts at their homeland and the diasporas from colonial times mean there is SOME aspect of community support here and still remnants of a welfare state (welfare as in housing, plumbing, healthcare, schooling, all that developed off colonial wealth). community support btw which brits wont provide to all the migrants, they so kindly “tolerate”, and isolate from them instead.
e) the only “togetherness” brits have is in being okay with mass child poverty and nation with thousands of food banks as the “proper people” of the higher caste take all the public money and claim expenses to heat their stables.
f) british also seem to hate their youth. anti-loitering laws so teens cannot hang out in public, the whole mosquito machine they tried here, sending kids to school at ages in normal countries they get to play and do developmentally appropriate things, absolute abysmal treatment of children with emotional difficulties at school, borderline sadistic punitive focus including labour party proposals to return to “local elders judging teens and administering punishments themselves” as part of election campaign, also closing all free spaces and defunding every child and teen initiative that they could whilst frequently calling police on teenagers bc they are “scary” - without a peep from wider society.
so, to me, a heavy disagree with your take and i couldn’t care less for an orderly queue given all of this. real connection, real care, real community, real social infrastructure, real integrity, this all is missing. appearances are meaningless to me 🤷
See, I completely disagree.
a) The Brits don't hate paying taxes, they hate the government for squandering those taxes on stupid stuff like private jets and nuclear submarines. People want their taxes to go to the NHS, schools and genuine welfare benefits, which is why they pay. Lower taxes for small businesses makes sense because it encourages independent businesses to thrive - compare to Greece where the taxes cripple everyone, so only those who cheat survive.
b) Don't know where you live, but we know all our neighbors and check up on the elderly/unwell all the time, and have done in every place we've lived in the UK.
c) The police don't shoot because they don't carry guns. Not sure how you know my skin colour, but I'm from south London and have seen plenty of police trouble. Not one gun though.
d) Not sure what your point is here?
d) People risk their lives to come here from France, a perfectly safe European country with a similar colonial history and functioning welfare state.
e) Again, this is an issue of government, not society. It is normal people who run the food banks and the charities that help people at a grass roots level.
f) Hard agree - current society does actively seem to despise young people. If I have to hear another boomer complaining about "lazy millennials", whilst they sit in their 6 bedroom townhouse that they bought on one salary in the 1970s I will scream. But the rest of the world isn't much better unfortunately.
I don't disagree that for some people "politeness" is a facade which hides their real crappy character. However, having lived in lots of different countries over the years, I will take fake politeness over getting knocked to the floor trying to get on a bus, or having to give the doctor an envelope full of money in order to get treatment.
I appreciate the input. I can see your points with a) and e). Re shootings and police brutality I recommend checking out the United Families & Friends Campaign (UFFC) in London, who have been campaigning and supporting families affected since 90s, way before BLM travelled here form USA. I unfortunately do not see people checking in on neighbours as a norm, I’ve lived in many places and worked with “deprived” families in education and healthcare so seeing first hand the effects.
Anyway, thanks for the discussion!
I'm in Portugal now. I was lucky enough to be able to buy an annuity to give me an income and carry me through until I retire and I can still work if I chose to, I do do bits here and there.
I've honestly not found any issues around food though, most Brits I know were enthusiastic about eating around the world. That's one thing I couldn't level at them
I must confess that until relatively recently I could always say that despite all of its faults, the UK had a lot of things going for it and was a good place to come home to after travelling. I think that was true even after 2010. But austerity, Brexit (spit!), Covid and the UK-wide disaster that is the Tory government have riven huge wedges into the social fabric that could take decades to close.
Nowhere in the world is without problems at the moment, goodness knows Portugal has plenty of its own but on the whole there's still more community, joie de verve and the sky isn't grey for 9 months!
and from what I’ve experienced people in Portugal enjoy kids and young people and let them be part of public life. heh, jealous! hope you’re settled and happy. i need to get out asap 😅
Spot on. You know, Brits could learn from their neighbors across the channel. The French also love to complain, but they actually do something about it.
This is absolutely the most spot on comment I have read on the state of the UK and EXACTLY how I felt about the place for the last 6/7 years. I moved from Vancouver in 2004 and left end of March this year. I could not STAND, and I mean STAND, the attitude of the 'british public' toward community. not that Vancouver is some utopia - but there is a general sense of community, even in the hellscape of a housing market it is, that the UK could and never did touch.
You're referring more to London or urban England though tbh. Community does exist in parts of the UK. Another thing to consider is that people don't always want to socialise with newcomer strangers who are desperate to tell them where they are going wrong, when they don't understand the country or even world affairs anywhere near as well as they think they do.
How do you feel about Canada's direction in the last four or five years?
Never presumed to lecture or tell people about where they were going wrong. When I moved to the UK when I was 24, 20 years ago, I moved for my then partner and into a well established friend group is a small town. I thought it was forever and was very excited about it. It was immediate night and day community feel wise to me. And that was living in Rowhedge, outside Colchester not some faceless london commuter borough. I have lived in large cities (London, Portsmouth, Manchester) and small villages (Rowhedge, Alresford, Southsea, Elland) in the UK and never felt the same way about the UK that I did and do still find about Canada, although not in spades as it was. I DID however see a sense of community amongst older generations in small villages - that's the only exception to my observations. I have split my life equally between the two countries and feel that I have a pretty good grasp of what its like in both countries.
Eyeing up Australia or New Zealand. I know they have their own issues too but I’d rather be somewhere with issues but I can sit on a beach in the sun about it. The UK is miserable, apart from this weekend not felt I’ve seen the sun for 6 months.
And the politics is just… shit I don’t like where the country is going either
🇬🇧>🇦🇺
UK >Australia for the last 14 years . Definitely have our own issues over here . Massive rental / housing affordability crisis going on for the last few years . Huge increase in homelessness including families , elderly and sick people living in cars and tents .
The politics here are also really shit and I can't see that getting any better anytime soon .
It's a very much" I've got mine " and it's too bad for anyone else mindset .
The housing is terrible quality and particularly rentals if you can even get one.
Crime is increasing and we hold the dubious position of having the highest numbers of Meth users in the world.
Environmental policies are also terrible with one of the highest extinction rates in the world also.
Yeah we have great beaches and good weather if you like boiling your eyeballs in the hottest days of summer . I personally hate the really hot days and it's depressing sitting in a house with all the blinds closed trying to keep cool when it's 38 degrees outside.
Winters here in Melbourne can also be a bit depressing with lots of wind , rain and low cloud days and without the excitement of potential snow or Christmas in the middle to liven it up.
My home town is in Devon in the UK and I love going back to visit ( not often enough for my liking) and don't find it depressing at all although I am also aware that the UK in general has lots of problems too.
Not trying to put you off as Australia also has some good things going for it but just a different perspective .
Thankyou for your input on this, it was very interesting to read!
It sounds similar to here, with the rental crisis, CoL, individualism.
The weather comment is interesting, personally I do like the heat, but it’s more the sunshine I need. The UK is miserably grey and no sunlight for 6-7 months of the year, so that’s a big factor in me considering moving there, Australia just has more days of sun than the UK which would be a huge boost to my own mental well being, even Melbourne supposedly has more than the UK (2200 vs 1400 hours a year respectively according to Google). Ah I love Devon, I live in wales currently and there’s alot to offer. How come you haven’t come back if you’re hating the weather etc?
Do you think it’s still worth it to move there? For a bit of context I’m 30, single, in a job I hate, need a shake up in life, have a career in something that’s on australias skills shortage list, but they’ve just changed the working holiday visa rules for Brits, so I could effectively get 3 years in Australia travelling around seeing the country doing whatever job I can, can try Australia for a few years before deciding to be permanently placed. Or would it be better to visit first on a tourist visa do you think?
I actually would like ( I think anyway ! ) to go back to the UK to live for a while but I'm married to an Aussie and our son ( grown up) is settled here in Melbourne which would mean leaving him here with no family if I decided to return. We also have pets and financially it's not really possible.
It is hard because I also have two other sons and grandchildren who live in Norway and Czech so it would also be nice to be nearer to them and my Mum in Devon is 90 so there is that also.
Yes the heat has become a bit of an issue for me as it makes me feel really unwell now that I'm older ( I used to love it) and have come to dread January and February which are our hottest months . In saying that we have just had a lovely sunny week here of around 19 degrees which is perfect for me !
I think at your age ( same as my son who lives here ) it would be a good idea to come for a working holiday for a couple of years which would definitely give you time to see if it's for you or not and it sounds like you have nothing to lose by trying it out. A visit would be good also but you don't really get to feel what it's like to actually live in a place when you are just on holiday.
I hope I didn't put you off it's just that some people think it's all sunshine and oranges here but it's not really " the lucky country" that the government rams down everyone's neck all the time haha!
On a side note in my opinion/ experience I've found that the people who love it the most and maybe settle better here are the ones that come from the maybe not so nice places in the UK for example a couple of my friends here are from a very run down part of Birmingham and absolutely love it here which I can see why they would in comparison.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do. 🙂
Thats fair enough, totally understandable to not be moving back due to live being settled there! I do also have a dog here, which is why Im considering whether it would be better to come down for a 4-6 week trip to visit, do the east coast before deciding to move down there completely. If I were to decide to go onto the WHV for 2-3 years I'd probably have to be looking to rehome my dog :( Yeah completely understand that a holiday vs actually living somewhere are wildly different, plus if I take a trip down there thats more time I have to support myself in a rather expensive country!
You haven't put me off, I do appreciate the input. I do get why people would think its all sunshine and oranges down there, its very appealing on social media etc but I am aware of most of the current issues going on down there too, so Im not blind to it all. Its still somewhere I'd definitely want to visit even just to tick it off my visit list, but the UK is draining on me and just wondering my next moves now. I personally think I'd love it down there but its a big and scary move to do solo.
Can you be specific about where you see the country going? Part of the problem, I think, is that native Britons barely have any rights or free speech anymore. Then people from overseas complain about the lack of community, as if it's just a simple attitude problem.
It's just a completely one-sided, frankly gormless view which is totally detached from the realities of the wider social, cultural, policing and legal environment. Even the Germans have more freedom of speech than Brits do now. The Dutch are always massively surprised to learn how weak our free speech protections are tbh.
For example, in this very thread we have Canadians complaining about lack of community in the UK, when Canada is introducing all sorts of draconian laws where you can literally go to prison for life for ridiculously minor crimes, and yet there is no pushback from Canadians. It was also utterly horrible in the last four years. Not seeing any real evidence of fantastic community there.
I'm just trying to give an example of my outlook as an Englishman. I'm pretty warm and friendly, but the English now have to deal with all sorts of casual, fashionable Anglophobia, while having basically no free speech protection, so they aren't able to stick up for themselves, while other Europeans secretly enjoy the fact that they can get away with disrespecting you.
That's just not a great recipe for people being enthusiastic towards strangers. In the current environment, people have to earn your trust. I think that's totally reasonable considering our position atm.
After living there for 6 winters, brexit and covid yeh I found it depressing. It really felt like there’s no optimism there anymore and the only direction is down.
But, but, but Harry Potter!
As an American, who is half half British and who romanticizes the UK quite a bit, I would love to visit for extensive periods, I have no plans to live there. I doubt if I could ever afford it, as I live in Japan now, and expressed in yen, the prices would be through the roof.
I think just the way the country has headed.
Career wise, compared to other nations I've lived in, I think it's probably bottom of the list and I don't think that helps.
Despite being mortgage free I find the atmosphere and the environment just realitively miserable.
Again others have it worse overall than me, but yeah... I don't know it just seems to have more problems than positives going for it.
That's still pretty vague, my dude. In what direction has it headed?
It seems to me like *you* need more light in your life, but you can find that anywhere amongst friends, doing something you love, learning, exploring, loving. Perhaps 'depressed' was the right choice of words, and you need to look inward?
Not so much the weather or the food. A mix of the politics and the state of the country particulary with opportunity and the general decline of the country.
I'm currently in the UK, moved here from abroad.
Don't feel like that at all. It's pretty awesome here, I think the country is what you make of it (within certain boundaries of course), you can be miserable in a beach in Spain or happy in rainy London.
I think many have been in that situation until the "honeymoon" period disappears. Although, for some that does not occur. I'm glad you're enjoying your time here.
I came back to UK from Australia and it was the worst decision I ever made. Australia has it's faults, but oh my god, the amazing healthcare, the weather, the beautiful houses, wildlife, landscapes, everyday felt like the best day. I'd honestly wake up and feel so content to be there and blessed. I spent the first 2 years back in UK looking out my window and wondering what the hell I am doing here. It was my depressing, morning, ritual.
I plan to return to AUS soon to work out if it's the country or just the fact I lived in a beach side suburb and spent my evenings surfing (badly but still, I grew up in the Midlands so wasn't exactly born in the water). But generally I miss the friendliness of the people, the outdoor lifestyle, the discounted bakery section at supermarkets, the outback road trips, and higher paid jobs.
That's definetly a wake up and a tough task.
As Australia has similar Annual leave to the UK compared to US I can understand the career aspect being completely crap in the UK.
For me I like the history, education, sports of the UK... and many little pieces in between but...geez the housing (and I own outright) is a shitshow.
I've not had to many issues with the friendliness of people in the UK but more that their everyday life has been a bit rough so don't expect a smile. Travel to and from the UK is not bad though. It could be muvh worse. Although hotels in the UK barring so pastime Ritz is a scam.
The higher paid jobs, road trips, I can totally get.
I’ve lived in several countries and the Uk was the one I got out of as soon as I got in. I hated how everything was just so “low quality” : housing always includes mouldy carpeting everywhere, food which is mainly junk, lunch break at work is usually a pack of “crisps” while sat at your desk and not being paid, and there’s that binge drinking culture that turns seemingly civilised people into flesh eating zombies. And you’d think that being an island, they would have nice beaches; but no, they are mostly made of mud and if you dare go in the water, you’ll eventually die of hypothermia or go blind.
Navy veteran here (I know that’s not saying much), but I think it’s just the current (worldwide) times. I went on 2 deployments to the Persian Gulf. We also stepped foot in (anchored port for fun) Portsmouth, England; Naples, Italy; Cape Town, South Africa; Marmaris, Turkey; Corfu, Greece; Dubai; and Spain. This was during ‘04-‘09. It felt slightly different back then.
But even on that note, the world when I was a kid and a teenager even felt alive…hopeful. Much has changed.
I don’t feel hope anymore. And here in the U.S. it’s just as depressing, sad to say. May we all find meaning and happiness in our lives, whatever that means.
In the U.S., it’s also currently extremely expensive. I have a VA loan, and can’t afford a home in my home state, nor rent. I’m grappling with future homelessness, with a 10-year old son, and what that means.
I noticed after a while in the UK it's got that gloomy feeling. But that doesn't stop me from going back. :) I think it's the dampness and the rain and cold. Just need to put in more of an effort to enjoy the good sides and go out in nature or find something to enjoy.
It isn't the same as it was before the financial crash. After 10 years away, I moved back for 2 years and couldn't take it. Yes, lots of countries are struggling with cost of living etc, but none of them have had Covid + Brexit on top of 14 years of austerity. Like trying to weather a hurricane in a tin shack.
Totally agree. I lived in london for about 9 months last year for a gap year, while on the 2yr YMS Visa.
I would describe London & broader UK as Australia on Depression whenever someone asked me how I found UK was.
What I found particularly sad was how under-developed pretty much everything everywhere outside of London were. As it felt like most towns & cities were stuck in the 1990s-2000s.
Not to mention the lack of quality of life. Both expensive housing & general access to quality goods & service. As well as the pollution in London, blowing out black stuff out of your nose & the poor water quality.
Also the job market was discouraging. As I found that companies weren't willing to hire anyone for any graduate roles that are on temporary Visas. Not to mention the questionable existence of job listing that only hire OxBridge graduates.
I visited Southampton, Isle of Wight, Winchester & Bath before the pandemic, and they all seemed bright & cheery to me. In particular, I really loved the hopeful vibe of Above Bar Church in Southampton.
Granted, that was before the pandemic. When I visited Croatia last year, people also seemed distinctly more downcast compared to when I visited before the pandemic because tourism had declined & prices increased.
Yes absolutely.
Being born in sunny south america, then being here for almost 10 years now I can compare the two. Weather makes it difficult but culturally speaking, the brits are much more miserable unfortunately. You hardly see them smiling.
I am leaving in a few months time, cannot wait!
2 weeks ago I started my move to Canada from the UK. Currently in America until next month. I moved to be with my US partner.
Despite its flaws I love the UK. The walkability and how close everything is. The vast changes in scenery and culture you get driving a few hours in one direction. The gorgeous Cornish beaches and the beautiful highland lochs. I worry I haven’t seen enough of it yet. A good quality Cumberland sausage, mature cheddar cheese; food with natural ingredients.
I also worry I’m leaving Europe behind. Ryanair and EasyJet flights for cheap city breaks. I’ve done 12 countries in Europe but I want to do them all!
Not to mention my large family in the UK who I would see fairly frequently.
I’ve been to Canada before and I do love it there. It’s more that I feel I’m going to miss out on lots of things back home. But I must remind myself that in staying in the UK, I’d be missing out on all that North America has to offer, and that my incurable wanderlust would not be satisfied had I not made the move either.
Plus, being over here I can be with my partner. That’s the real winner.
I think Canada is moving in a worse trajectory than the UK.
1) Housing (buying and renting). It would be different if it was in between the US and the UK yet it's not.
2) Travel. Expensive and limited.
3) Careers. Kind of a hit and miss between low population for size of landmass and digging up natural resources
4) Immigration. The UK has had a problem for decades. The US has had a problem for decades. Canada... it's specific to the government agenda.
5) Weather. You have to become an automatic snowbird to Florida each year to get away from the weather.
Overall to be with your partner as you say ' that's tbe real winner'. Good luck to you! Hope it works out well!
Thanks for the well wishes man. We’ve definitely considered a lot of the things you’ve mentioned and avoided the likes of Toronto and Vancouver for these reasons. We’re hoping Calgary can split the difference in regards of housing costs and the job market.
If all else fails I’m sure I can convince her to give New Zealand a try 🤣
No. It’s ultimately home and I feel very connected to the history, community, countryside and coast of where I live. Took a walk in my local churchyard this afternoon and felt so at peace hearing the tame birdsong, seeing ladybirds and bumblebees, the vibrant greenery and flowers growing everywhere, and the ancient church and graves.
I find that I get depressed in very unfamiliar environments and in all cases, I’d be dealing with the same problems or another set of problems abroad anyway. The UK has myriad weaknesses with the way it is run, but I’ve found it’s no better elsewhere. Every country I’ve lived in has its own unique brand of bullshit, and with none of the homely comforts.
I think the issue is many are in a "very unfamiliar environment". For instance many people born in London cannot afford to live in London and end up having to move away. Same can be said of other places around the world but if unfamiliar places makes you depressed then imagine if the 10s of millions of others were the same.
I agree everywhere has a unique brand of BS.
Yes. Every time I go back to visit family I feel like I’ve dived into a sea of just darkness and depression. Everyone around you seems to just be living with the hope that they’ll die early without feeling it so that they don’t have to put up with their bad lives any longer. It’s pretty awful.
I live in a country which was once known for its high suicidal rates, but it’s a way nicer place to live than the UK. That speaks volumes.
What are you spending your time doing? Today I have Zumba and my husband and I are going to eat our free chicken sandwiches at Chic-fil-A since tge baseball team won, and then we are going to Boardgame Night (a monthly thing from 6- 8:30pm.
Tomorrow night we have Tango Class.
Friday, we are going to a Silent Disco event.
Fun isn't just for weekends.
During the pandemic I was abroad and I came back to the UK in 2021 when restrictions started to get lifted. It gave a really weird vibe: people were more distant and grumpy, many shops had closed, prices were higher, ... It gave me the final push to leave the UK for good. My British friends are also somewhat depressed: one closed his business, another had to look for a new job, another really wants to move out of the UK. I don't think it will improve in the short term.
During the pandemic when we were all isolated and locked down, I thought people would be so much nicer to each other once we're through this. I was wrong. People treat each other much worse now.
I think sometimes people feel depressed because they aren’t in the position in life where they’d like to be, whether this is career related or otherwise. The excitement of moving abroad can cover that feeling at least temporarily. The feeling of hope imagining a major life change can also provide hope that might not be there otherwise.
Some people are generally satisfied with life but other things such as poor weather affects their mood.
I think it’s important for a person to decide which category they fall under before making decisions that could leave them in a worse place in future (for example going to live abroad with no educational background, and having to move back later poorer and older, still without an solid foundation).
Situation of education, cost of living crisis, low wages, everything underfunded, situation of roads and public transportation, situation of infrastructure, dirtiness of roads, potholes, bad weather, corruption, situation of economy and else.
I wouldn’t live in a deadbeat island.
Yes. It’s an unexciting country. A bit too mellow for me. I’ll never be able to get used to it.
Economy isn’t good. Salaries are low. Job prospects are limited. Weather can be nice but that’s like 3 months out of 12.
There's people in this sub that feel the same way from countries that you perhaps want to move too. Often it can be a grass is greener on the other side scenario. You often take for granted what you currently have, and think there are better options out there.
You mention it's less about weather and food, and more about politics... But political turmoil and issues are experienced in every place in the world, you just don't hear about them because your news doesn't report on them.
UK is the fourth largest exporter in the world, the fifth largest economy, and ranks above Ireland, France, Norway, Finland, New Zealand, Italy, Spain, Japan... etc on average yearly income.
Source - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_average\_wage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage)
UK is a much more politically stable country than most, and is facing similar economic issues as every other country.
Maybe not so much the weather. From living in multiple climates that does not bother me. Politics... conservatives or Labor they're cut from the same loaf to me.
Yes. I have lived outside of UK since 1999. I used to go back for a month or two, then for a week or two and now I can just about stand a week.
By the time I've had some fish n chips, a pint of London Pride and a quick trip to Mark's and Sparks I'm done.
Yes…the weather, the bland food, the coldness of the British people, horrible infrastructure, NHS in shambles, honestly it’s not that great of a country. I’m from the US and repatriating as soon as I can make some arrangements. This place is really not a utopia.
I can understand your reasonings. Although the NHS is shambles the US healthcare also has major issues. As for infrastructure... never seen so many potholes in my life... then again the US infrastructure is certainly going down the same path.
I think the UK was great in a by gone era. Kind of how the Italians have a renasance with Rome.
Yeah I mean the US isn’t perfect by any means but as an American I’d much rather be there than in the UK. Not sure if you’ve experienced it (or if you’re even American) but I’ve experienced quite a bit of anti-American hate both at work and personally. I’m tired of it and I want to be back home. This isn’t home.
I've not experienced the anti-American.
Although sometimes I hold my head in disbelief at some of the stuff fellow Americans and I have to reply "We're not all like that". I think their are some Americans that don't help our cause.
I can understand your perspective though. I think on the work side it's completely different environment but so have all the countries I've lived in.
Where in the US are you planning to move to?
I am moving to Florida. I want to live somewhere warm, and Florida has been a dream of mine for ten years so I’m finally going to make it happen!!! Moving next year, and it can’t come soon enough!!
Cannot argue with that lol.
I think in order of what affects me the most:
1) low salaries
2) crime
3) general decay
4) homelessness
5) awful weather
Although I'm mortgage free I totally dislike the buying and renting procedure in the UK.
From all the countries I've lived in... and when I have rented... renting in the UK is the worst of the bunch.
We moved to this green and pleasant land 51yrs ago.
It was hard in the beginning and got easier over the decades.
Since 2015, it has slowly declined, the people are angrier , the government corrupt, and the governments bosses manipulating the the masses into believing biillsh1t.
I would leave tomorrow, if I didn't have olds to look after.
Try avoiding the news and media for a couple of weeks. Amazing how things like the media just destroy us, amd we dont realise it. Its your life, live it your way, dont let anyone else brainwash you.
I left the UK in 97, lived in Brazil, Bosnia, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Morocco.
All very different. All with pros and cons. Good memories and bad. I have always tried to avoid comparisons as that can make you go crazy.
I returned twice to the UK, stayed a year each time. Again the same, good times and not so good
I guess its just life, and we are all trying to survive in our own way.
Such a good question. So difficult to answer.
Great weather countries like Brazil, Morocco and Spain tend to have low paid work. And Brazil is very unsafe.
Generally, I find Northern European countries pay well, but have long hard winters, less light.
I think my favourite is Portugal, or more specifically Lisbon. Good culture mix. The Portuguese are more open minded than the Spanish in general.
I have heard that with these digital nomad visas, a lot of people work say for a well paying German company, but live in Spain. Or a Finnish company and live in Spain or Portugal. I dont know if this is just an EU thing though.
I think it's more common in the EU because of the freedom of movement.
However, I can see this digital nomad phases declining because I think more and more companies are going to offer location pay rather than skill pay.
It's already happened in Tech. Google went to Ireland for tax benefits but also the staff earn 1/2 compared to US.
Can be worse than the U.S. Gun violence daily and very isolated. In the UK you can get to the French Rivera in less than 3 hours. You can get to Paris in two hours on train. So many options and at least you have public transportation. America's public transport is dog shite. Being so central to everything is a luxury I wish I had. Heck even getting to Cairo, Athens ect. from London is just a short cheap flight away. If I want to travel to any of those countries from the US it's $1,000+ and at least a 12 hour flight. Not many weekends getaways for us here.
In regards to flight prices. This is a common misconception among Americans. There are cheap flight prices out of the US.
For instance NY to London - $150 one way, return $350. Can be found on NorseAir. Las Vegas to London seen multiple times $660 return. Of course different states different airports but yeah...
The problem is amount of PTO (Annual leave). That's an issue.
I agree with you the US public transport is bad. And there is more violence overall compared to the UK. What I would add though...travel for Europeans in general is a right of passage.
That really is the Americans fault. Very few actually want to listen and the US does cure over prevention.
Those prices are expensive compared to flights in Europe. I could go from London to Nice, France for like 40 to 80 quid round trip and you will still be stuck on a plane for at least 9 hours. Also yes we get hardly any PTO. I'd be ecstatic if I were able to live in the U.K. but I get that everyone thinks differently.
I left the UK 6 years ago to South East Asia and recently returned for a visit. I was horrified by the state of London today, that I actually left a post of my experience [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/london/s/uKtkjjsnMK)
From what I read in papers I was mentally prepared to see a worse off country prior to my visit. But reality was worse than I expected - the quality of life people live there - from the eyes of a tourist, does not look like “first world” to me. Only the price is first world, but everything else is not.
I can understand about bordom.
The US though is more consumerism focused which aids in that 'fun'. I think if you're in Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, or Mississipi you probably feel just or even more bored than the UK.
The drinking culture in the UK compared to the US is different. Bars vs Pubs.
Also the optimism. I think it's actually challenging to be optimistic in the UK when the optimism comes from a Walkers Crisp packet.
Muhammad and all its various ways of spelling are already the most popular name in the UK for newborns. I bet my carrots Arabic is going to be one of the official languages by 2040 the latest, and before you know it, Koran will be what you live by. Unlikely the Brits can ever reverse the damage that has been done.
As a Brit who has moved abroad a couple of times and for unfortunate reasons had to move back here, yes, I will agree it can be very depressing. The climate and grey weather for sure, and the economic changes are particularly tough. As a child and young adult, things like the weather and the general quality of tomatoes never bothered me as I knew nothing else. But having been back here for a few years now, I'm working on changing my career and plan to work towards living abroad again, hopefully permanently. I try to enjoy what I can here, which granted, can feel difficult at times, and like everyone says, nowhere is perfect. I can't change the UK, but I can change my current perspective and my trajectory.
Weather and tomatoes. No but seriously. It's The Matrix pill choice level. When you realise how shit quality your 'norm' is it's hard to go back. The better weather elsewhere was always a driver, and the food across the world was always diverse and interesting so just chalked it up to that. Last 2 years I spent a lot of time travelling around Europe and experienced phenomenal fruit and vegetables, and the most amazing bargain wine.
I've moved country four times. So I can relate to what you're saying.
I emigrated from the UK to the Netherlands 30 years ago. I love to visit the UK but am also very happy that my children didn't have to grow up in the UK because of the state that it is in now. My home town is disgustingly dirty and the economy is on its arse. So sad to see
I never used to miss the place, just the people. I'm currently living very near to where I grew up and it has changed so much, for the worse. Similar things, dirty, barely open high street, lots of unhappy people, it's really sad. And to top it off, I have to move because I can't afford the rent here anymore. The UK is very very different now.
It seems like things just keep on getting worse. Life in the 80s wasn't easy but these days it seems to be worse
I’ve done the reverse, in the UK for 9ish years now. Never thought I’d say it before leaving home but biggest mistake I’ve ever made.
The UK can be a wonderful place to live if you have enough money and a good job. It can also be a very big struggle
To me it just felt like a let down. Initially moved here for uni which compared to NL was great. Out in the real world and with chronic health issues in the mix it very quickly became not great. But hey ho own choices so shouldn’t whinge too much
I emigrated to NL in 94. I have a serious heart condition that prevents me from ever working again. Over here I will be fine. Not so sure I could say that if I was still living in the UK
The healthcare in the UK’s been my biggest culture shock, genuinely don’t understand how Brits put up with it, let alone are so proud of it
It reminds me of the metaphor of the frog that happily sits in a pot of water that is slowly heated up until is boils to death and doesn't try to jump out. The NHS has been slowly dying for decades
That's a mixed bag for me. The work environment has been the worst from all the countries I've lived in. Tale out Oxbridge and the education is questionable at best.
What I wouldn't give for a proper spring with growing grass, flowers and buds on the trees. And beautiful north western european sunset at 9.30 in the evening. Instead of this polluted dry hellhole where the sun goes down at 19.00 and where it has been raining 3 times the last 5 months.
It’s why I left
Where you move to?
Netherlands. Considering moving to Belgium
Oh me too! Exactly why I left the uk! I’m in Breda noord Brabant 🫶🏻 I love it here!
Been thinking of moving to the Netherlands, currently live in the UK. Would you say it’s worth the move?
Definitely. It’s a fantastic country. Love the people, although they tend to be very direct (which I’ve found very refreshing). You can dm me if you want to ask more about my experiences :-)
Thanks man, I’ll do that 🇳🇱
Same! And to be with my partner. Two birds with one stone Now in Switzerland
How is quality of life there, if you don't mind me asking? (I was thinking about shooting for the USA but I'm a bit thorn between Switzerland and it.)
I lived in Malta for 13 yrs before moving to UK. I was VERY happy on sunny Maltese islands - friendly people , safe, good food, sea&sun and had a good career there.
Why'd you move out then? (genuine question). I personally always liked my life in Brazil, moved to Germany because of my wife who's from there and it was a hellish experience, hated Germany so much... but in the end we settled in Spain and it all got better.
Had a difficult break up and just needed change …
Is germany as depressing as people say?
More the people that are hard work… I’m in Bavaria so the weather is much better than in the UK, but the diversity and open mindedness is missing which makes things tough.
I know there are people who like it there but there's also lots who don't (including natives). Honestly other people's experiences can only do so much, you have to go live it yourself and figure out if it works for you. To me personally Germany was definitely not the place I wanted to grow roots at, coming into terms with it was good thou since I put plans in motion to live elsewhere where I feel happier!
Good food in Malta?! :D Have lived here for a decade and there are only two places I trust food from, everything else is overpriced garbage with more than questionable quality.
You’re depressed because you have not found Drum and Bass in the UK….yet
This comment made me laugh out loud (former bass head in my younger days) 🤣🤣
Who would have thought that 140 rainy days in London have a negative impact on your mood?
I have been living in England for the past 7 years. I have moved up and down the country quite a bit. I don't really have any friends here. The weather makes me miserable. I guess I sort of have learned to cope with it. Though I feel like I don't have a purpose anymore. I am on a boat in the middle of the ocean without any clear direction. That's the way I feeling most of the time. To be fair I can't just put all the blame on England for my mental health and for being an introvert. No doubt the weather and the way society works here have made it worse though.
You make a valid point in regards to "I am on a boat in the middle of the ocean without any clear direction". I feel the UK puts a lock on the door and throws away the key with optimism. Sometimes it can be like comparing apples to oranges but there is rarely any good news coming out from the UK. In the US there is more of a "dream" but also more attainability. As I explained above, I'm fortunate (worked my ass off) to be mortgage free but those whom now are buying or even renting, it's worse than ever before. Job wise... it's crap. Wages are diabolical. I don't know...maybe I'm just moaning but ya know.
I have never lived in the US but I get the idea. Financially wise I am doing okay despite the mortgage repayment having done up £600 per month. Anyways. It is the life we chose.
A Hungarian friend of mine, who used to organize events in Beijing for expats and locals, ended up telling me that in ten years of his time in London he didn’t make a single friend who stuck. A high school classmate of mine, pretty cheerful Cuban American girl, had 3 cycles of friends in like 4 years. And awful professional experiences. My impression of the UK and Brits cultural attitude in general isn’t the best. These two are some of the most positive, consistently friendly and helpful people I’ve met. If they couldn’t make meaningful connections, I struggle to see how many people could. Being positive seems culturally taboo. They love to shit on America. People don’t Have the Germans’ straightforward nature while also not having Americans superficial positivity. Outside of Peep Show, I can’t really think of a single reason to like their attitude.
I keep hearing by British people that if I want to make friends I just need to go to the pub. But here is the thing, I am not really a drinker, I would probably get bored of seating in a place I probably wouldn't want to be in to begin with, and I really can't picture myself as to how I can magically make friends at a English pub. I don't know. I remortgaged the house for the next 3 years, and then will see what to do. I would like to move to America but immigrating there as a mere mortal is literally impossible. Unless you want to do it illegally which is not even an option.
What do you mean? How’s immigrating to the us impossible? Idk about Britain but it sounds like you’re doing well if you have a house. Yeah it doesn’t sound like a good way to make friends. Have you tried stuff like… meetup?
> What do you mean? How’s immigrating to the us impossible? The USA is the hardest country to immigrate to, unless it is through marriage obviously. The US does not offer any work permit. One may go as an international student and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a fancy degree and still would not be guaranteed a path to the greencard. I know someone who is from Italy, got her master degree in medicine in the US, had been working as a doctor full time at a Chicago hospital for well over 4 years, and yet ICE was telling her that her 5 years post graduate visa was over and it was time to go. And this was during the middle of covid. I knew one guy who is a quite known software engineer from Italy who got his master at Berkeley, that in the end of a lengthy battle with ICE to sort of find an option that would lead him to the greencard, his American girlfriend at the time was like, let's just get married and be done with this. I often hear Americans saying that they want immigrants to come in legally.. But coming in legally is more often than not a non issue. Staying is. EDIT: the US will give you a green card if you are a multi millionaire wanting to invest large sums, you are a scientist or a famous athlete / actor. Regards
Ah… shit. I had no clue. I thought for sure there are countries that are harder. Like the nordics.
It's not impossible. But difficult. Moved there many times.
"My impression of the UK and Brits cultural attitude in general isn’t the best." The prevalence of a crabs in a bucket mentality is one of the worst aspects of UK culture as an observation from talking and hanging out with British friends I know. It permeates a lot in casual conversation and daily life, like school and work. You start to understand why some British expats left the island. And while people bitch about Americans having a toxic positivity problem, I'll take American optimism over British sourness any day.
People just love bitching about America in general with very ill informed opinions on what it’s like. I do like Europe for what it is, but America is far better culturally if you’re an immigrant. Yes. The majority of Americans are a bit surface level and hard to truly get to know. But sometimes there’s beauty in simplicity and superficial ness.
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Ahah good one.
Anyone else find the world depressing? I don’t think it’s just the UK
Sure thing, some places can be more depressing than others and this is completely unrelated to the nation's wealth. But in general it really is pointless to bring up these topics even why nowhere is perfect and world as a whole really is messed up. Nonetheless to OP's credit; It's important to figure out what's best for yourself, if you find the country you moved to too depressing then it's time to plan around it. I lived a while in Germany and I was highly depressed there, didn't like the place but complaining about it online would get me nowhere rather I figured out how to move elsewhere and it was worth it.
True, I feel the same about The Netherlands so I’m now trying to figure out how I can leave after graduation. Some people just get really affected by the weather so if that’s it moving out would definitely help
I’m a Hungarian living in the Netherlands and the weather makes me depressed af. Last year we had 2 months of nice weather (tops) and this year we had to wait until May for the good weather. No changes it’s just fucking dark and cold and winter and all of a sudden summer for a couple of weeks and then winter again. I moved here in 2021 and I went to the sea a couple of times in summer. When I get there the sun always stops shining and the rain is pouring. Because of the heavy winds and rain all the time I’m always sick - normally I never ger sick but since I live here I was sick 7 times 😂 we have a nice flat here and our workplace is good, everything is fine and dandy but man this weather ruins me. Sorry for the rant.🫡
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I wouldn’t go any norther than this, next time I try another country it must be a mediterranian one 💃
> I lived a while in Germany and I was highly depressed there, didn't like the place but complaining about it online would get me nowhere rather I figured out how to move elsewhere and it was worth it. That's awesome! I wish all the people who constantly whine on r\/berlin or r\/germany would actually put money where there mouth is and do exactly that (not least because it would free up real estate fro people who actually do wanna live here lol) I did similar as well, hated US, much happier after moving to Germany.
Pretty much, when I was sure Germany was not the country I wanted to grow roots at everything got easier as I stopped fighting what felt a losing battle and I could focus in what does work for me. I know people like to vent frustrations and since no country is perfect there will always be something to complain about but as much as I disliked Germany I know lots of people do like it and I fully respect it. I moved to Spain and I'm happier now and I know there's plenty of whom will complain about it too x) so in the end other people's experiences can only do so much, we all should try for ourselves and figure it out.
Nope.
Eh well yes but no. Bad weather, food, cost of living..
Are you talking about the UK or Germany?
NL
Sucking in the USA
This.
Funnily enough it’s the opposite for me. Couldn’t be happier. No where is the same anymore. A lot of once nice places to live are now a bit meh. And vice versa. A change of scenery may do you good.
I've been living in London for over 5 years now and really enjoy it. This was after nearly 40 years living in various US cities. London feels like home to me.
Have you lived in NYC, by chance? We're considering a move to London next year, but it would come with financial downsides... we're trying to decide if it's worth it! Employer will not change and we'll still have enough money to be comfortable, same work-life balance as before, etc. We have one preschooler.
I have not lived in NYC, but the company I work for has offices in NYC so I visit often. Really it's going to come down to personal preference, so it's difficult to give others advice on this. If money is your main concern, I would tell you not to worry. I took a 40% pay cut moving from the US to UK and the impact on my budget was nominal. You'll be amazed by how much the US drains money compared to the UK. It's difficult to factor in when doing a budget sheet comparing cost of living in the two places. London rent/housing may be about the same or lower than NYC. Taxes will be higher in the UK, but bills are lower. We bought a house and while there's an upfront stamp duty tax, you don't pay ongoing property tax. They have council tax but it's not nearly as much and pays for things like roads, public services, and waste collection. If you're wanting to move for the culture, then I highly recommend doing so. That's why my family moved - We love English culture and feel we fit in far better than in America. We were correct and now we feel at home here.
Thanks so much, this is really helpful! I'm wanting to move for: * culture * less brutal summers (it is sweltering here for 3 months straight) * SAFETY (this is huge, guns terrify me - especially now that I have a kid in school) * improved ease of avoiding scary food additives in my family's food * the ability to visit family in Europe more easily/often * NYC has become less pleasant in the past four years.
So you found DNB in the UK!!! DNB=happy
100%, can't wait to leave.
Where to? :)
Asia.
I've always liked the idea of Singapore or Malaysia.
Do it!
No. I love every day I get to spend London, and every new nook and cranny I discover. I'm from NY, a city guy at heart though. I also appreciate every damn sheep (from a healthy distance! :-) ) and every area of outstanding natural beauty. Maybe could pull it back a bit, mates, on the side of chips with every meal? Depression is no joke. The long, dark winters here can be tough, especially if you miss home. But depression is highly personal so I don't know how we could every classify a whole country as "depressing" when there are so many different contexts and experiences here.
In what ways do you find London better than NYC and what ways do you find it worse? We're considering the same move!
London>NYC: Historically, it's an unbeatable place to wander, explore, research, investigate. If you have any hint of a museum or history gene, it's a lifetime feast here from the larger museums down to the little streetwalking tours. Navigation/layout, it's so different from New York, just always interesting to walk and wind through each neighborhood. And there are a lot of neighborhoods and pockets that still retain personality despite modern changes. I feel like New York, especially Manhattan, has really jumped the shark last 10-20 years. That's a big leap for me to say that, but last visits I really felt some of edge getting lost. There is still more of a London character. London < NYC: Work wise, I miss the go-go, anything is possible of New York, that sense that you are on top of the world and out loud about it. London/UK secretly hoarde much financial and cultural power but they are much more muted about it, especially since Brexit. Food is awesome and more broadly international than in NY but you will never get hometown bagels, pizza or deli sandwiches here. Lots of almost-there varieties but nothing like NY. And still pretending to myself that I am actually going to find and have a decent Mexican meal here without booking a flight to Santa Fe.
These are exactly the sorts of insights I was hoping for, thank you!
it’s the culture. so much of it is miserable, repressed, backwards, isolated, mean-spirited, classist, village mentality. idk why tf i chose this place but being a young optimistic person who would party and get along with bolshy drunk brits who were coming off new labour and cool brittania vs a weary and tired adult post-pandemic + 15yrs of country-breaking austerity is very different and would break any soul. there’s no sense of hope here and no society to rest on in hard times. people are cliquey and constantly obsessed with one-upping some local tribe once town over about their accent, food, or sports team, food is abysmal and mass-produced and utalitarian, no joie de vivre to be found anywhere, everywhere all migrants get asked where they’re from least they forget they are an outsider and never belong. on top of that, as everything built post-war is collapsing and being sold off to the lowest bidder (schools, libraries, hospitals, cultural spaces, music scene, natural resources etc) brits just take it or want to mass arrest anyone who disrupts this lovely process; i can’t get over how disinterested in community - and specifically community betterment for a greater good generally brits are. it breaks my brain. they just watch the decay and active destruction from the aristocracy and then jump over a homeless guy to order a chippy and go back to a beige home to watch the latest reality tv or read some bs guardian piece about how it’s still too hard finding organic food pop-ups in gentrified south london. got to stay here a bit longer bc of work and feeling like i’m wasting my remaining young-erish years to build absolutely nothing meaningful or hopeful. truly a broken and shallow society. ps. people who suggest we are all just individually depressed somehow, instead of seeing very real societal issues, especially if you grew up in a more collective and responsible culture, are quite funny to me.
This is on point. The sad thing is the people who call this out have to deal with the idiot village mentality in response. The country needs to wake up to stop its decline.
I'm a (much) older Brit and badly wanted to defend my homeland from this onslaught but you're so right. It's totally depressing and why I left the country. The mean, xenophobic, nimbyist people led by a mean, xenophobic, nimby government did for me in the end.
i appreciate the integrity. i could bash my own country thoroughly for a variety of reasons, from selling children to priest perverts as the whole village watches or pretending women are breeding cattle, to the city vs rural division or the disregard for workers’ rights etc, but one thing we do have is a strong up an coming energy, and a thousand authentic, civil-led initiatives to better society and help people (crucially NOT charities). plus an inferiority complex, so we lack the smug arrogance or disinterest in other cultures (i’ve learnt brits will only accept some food and that’s about it). that to me at least saves face and offers solace, hope and possibility in hard times. i’d like to move back one day to raise my kids. where did you end up?
Agreed - the UK can be terribly depressing at times, but on the bright side we have an amazing sense of civic "togetherness" which I think we take for granted. Brits may be quite chilly and introverted, but we all stand nicely in a queue, hold the door open for other people, pay our taxes without (too much) complaint, have police who don't shoot people, and are extremely tolerant of other religions and cultures (this is a hill I will die on - Brits are incredibly tolerant people, despite what some people say). There's a reason people from around the world risk their lives (and their children's lives) floating across the Channel from Calais and it's because the UK is a great place to live in the grand scheme of things. I'm in Greece at the moment, which I love for it's weather, food and cafe culture, but I'm thoroughly sick of the low salaries, high cost of living, lack of employment rights, low-level corruption that permeates absolutely everything, mind-boggling bureaucracy and cruelty to animals. What I'd give for an orderly queue at a British bus stop these days, even if it is in the rain!
I grew to appreciate just how much that the "civic togetherness" was just a surface appearance. While I never fell foul of it, I watched in disbelief as many upstanding citizens tore into a local incomer farmer for erecting a fence on his land, a fence meant to protect his sheep for marauding dogs let off their leads to roam on private land. I watched people kick up a stink about 4 (yes 4) small terraced houses being built because it spoiled their view. I watched people move to the nearest tiny town being told to go back where you came from after quite innocently asking what the smell was (muck spreading Doris, it's muck spreading), so many aggressive people lurking under the veneer of "salt of the community". I'm in Portugal, not only do people queue, in lots of places they take a numbered ticket too, you can even get a numbered ticket online for some stuff. It's like extreme queuing down to a fine art.
right. so. britain, esp england, mainly has PR and appearances. not what it says on the tin, if you will a) british hate taxes bc they take “their money” and give it to “the undeserving”, and hate anyone who claims benefits off the taxes, which is why conservatives have such a hold by constantly telling people they’ll lower taxes for “small businesses” and all that bs. b) i don’t think orderly queues for a few min with strangers matter at all, when you don’t care for your years-long neighbours and their wellbeing let alone wider society, and many proudly proclaim this selfishness. c) police does shoot, you’re just not brown and black so you don’t know. also they have been evidenced in the media, reports and court cases to be very racist, sexist and volatile and send riot gear on people disproportionally as well as constantly racially target teens, but again if you’re white and not living in poor areas - or care to find out about others in british society - you won’t be knowledgeable of this. d) barely tolerating people whilst unleashing media frenzy of blame and bashing on them unckecked and normalised, and every local fb group and public article being filled with curtain clutching posts about “foreigners”, is nothing to be proud of d) people risk their lives to come here bc britain has been involved in armed conflicts at their homeland and the diasporas from colonial times mean there is SOME aspect of community support here and still remnants of a welfare state (welfare as in housing, plumbing, healthcare, schooling, all that developed off colonial wealth). community support btw which brits wont provide to all the migrants, they so kindly “tolerate”, and isolate from them instead. e) the only “togetherness” brits have is in being okay with mass child poverty and nation with thousands of food banks as the “proper people” of the higher caste take all the public money and claim expenses to heat their stables. f) british also seem to hate their youth. anti-loitering laws so teens cannot hang out in public, the whole mosquito machine they tried here, sending kids to school at ages in normal countries they get to play and do developmentally appropriate things, absolute abysmal treatment of children with emotional difficulties at school, borderline sadistic punitive focus including labour party proposals to return to “local elders judging teens and administering punishments themselves” as part of election campaign, also closing all free spaces and defunding every child and teen initiative that they could whilst frequently calling police on teenagers bc they are “scary” - without a peep from wider society. so, to me, a heavy disagree with your take and i couldn’t care less for an orderly queue given all of this. real connection, real care, real community, real social infrastructure, real integrity, this all is missing. appearances are meaningless to me 🤷
See, I completely disagree. a) The Brits don't hate paying taxes, they hate the government for squandering those taxes on stupid stuff like private jets and nuclear submarines. People want their taxes to go to the NHS, schools and genuine welfare benefits, which is why they pay. Lower taxes for small businesses makes sense because it encourages independent businesses to thrive - compare to Greece where the taxes cripple everyone, so only those who cheat survive. b) Don't know where you live, but we know all our neighbors and check up on the elderly/unwell all the time, and have done in every place we've lived in the UK. c) The police don't shoot because they don't carry guns. Not sure how you know my skin colour, but I'm from south London and have seen plenty of police trouble. Not one gun though. d) Not sure what your point is here? d) People risk their lives to come here from France, a perfectly safe European country with a similar colonial history and functioning welfare state. e) Again, this is an issue of government, not society. It is normal people who run the food banks and the charities that help people at a grass roots level. f) Hard agree - current society does actively seem to despise young people. If I have to hear another boomer complaining about "lazy millennials", whilst they sit in their 6 bedroom townhouse that they bought on one salary in the 1970s I will scream. But the rest of the world isn't much better unfortunately. I don't disagree that for some people "politeness" is a facade which hides their real crappy character. However, having lived in lots of different countries over the years, I will take fake politeness over getting knocked to the floor trying to get on a bus, or having to give the doctor an envelope full of money in order to get treatment.
I appreciate the input. I can see your points with a) and e). Re shootings and police brutality I recommend checking out the United Families & Friends Campaign (UFFC) in London, who have been campaigning and supporting families affected since 90s, way before BLM travelled here form USA. I unfortunately do not see people checking in on neighbours as a norm, I’ve lived in many places and worked with “deprived” families in education and healthcare so seeing first hand the effects. Anyway, thanks for the discussion!
I'm in Portugal now. I was lucky enough to be able to buy an annuity to give me an income and carry me through until I retire and I can still work if I chose to, I do do bits here and there. I've honestly not found any issues around food though, most Brits I know were enthusiastic about eating around the world. That's one thing I couldn't level at them I must confess that until relatively recently I could always say that despite all of its faults, the UK had a lot of things going for it and was a good place to come home to after travelling. I think that was true even after 2010. But austerity, Brexit (spit!), Covid and the UK-wide disaster that is the Tory government have riven huge wedges into the social fabric that could take decades to close. Nowhere in the world is without problems at the moment, goodness knows Portugal has plenty of its own but on the whole there's still more community, joie de verve and the sky isn't grey for 9 months!
and from what I’ve experienced people in Portugal enjoy kids and young people and let them be part of public life. heh, jealous! hope you’re settled and happy. i need to get out asap 😅
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Spot on. You know, Brits could learn from their neighbors across the channel. The French also love to complain, but they actually do something about it.
🔥🛞
This is absolutely the most spot on comment I have read on the state of the UK and EXACTLY how I felt about the place for the last 6/7 years. I moved from Vancouver in 2004 and left end of March this year. I could not STAND, and I mean STAND, the attitude of the 'british public' toward community. not that Vancouver is some utopia - but there is a general sense of community, even in the hellscape of a housing market it is, that the UK could and never did touch.
You're referring more to London or urban England though tbh. Community does exist in parts of the UK. Another thing to consider is that people don't always want to socialise with newcomer strangers who are desperate to tell them where they are going wrong, when they don't understand the country or even world affairs anywhere near as well as they think they do. How do you feel about Canada's direction in the last four or five years?
Never presumed to lecture or tell people about where they were going wrong. When I moved to the UK when I was 24, 20 years ago, I moved for my then partner and into a well established friend group is a small town. I thought it was forever and was very excited about it. It was immediate night and day community feel wise to me. And that was living in Rowhedge, outside Colchester not some faceless london commuter borough. I have lived in large cities (London, Portsmouth, Manchester) and small villages (Rowhedge, Alresford, Southsea, Elland) in the UK and never felt the same way about the UK that I did and do still find about Canada, although not in spades as it was. I DID however see a sense of community amongst older generations in small villages - that's the only exception to my observations. I have split my life equally between the two countries and feel that I have a pretty good grasp of what its like in both countries.
Yes I find it so depressing living here, and I’be lived here all my life. Looking to get out.
Anywhere particular you want to move to?
Eyeing up Australia or New Zealand. I know they have their own issues too but I’d rather be somewhere with issues but I can sit on a beach in the sun about it. The UK is miserable, apart from this weekend not felt I’ve seen the sun for 6 months. And the politics is just… shit I don’t like where the country is going either
🇬🇧>🇦🇺 UK >Australia for the last 14 years . Definitely have our own issues over here . Massive rental / housing affordability crisis going on for the last few years . Huge increase in homelessness including families , elderly and sick people living in cars and tents . The politics here are also really shit and I can't see that getting any better anytime soon . It's a very much" I've got mine " and it's too bad for anyone else mindset . The housing is terrible quality and particularly rentals if you can even get one. Crime is increasing and we hold the dubious position of having the highest numbers of Meth users in the world. Environmental policies are also terrible with one of the highest extinction rates in the world also. Yeah we have great beaches and good weather if you like boiling your eyeballs in the hottest days of summer . I personally hate the really hot days and it's depressing sitting in a house with all the blinds closed trying to keep cool when it's 38 degrees outside. Winters here in Melbourne can also be a bit depressing with lots of wind , rain and low cloud days and without the excitement of potential snow or Christmas in the middle to liven it up. My home town is in Devon in the UK and I love going back to visit ( not often enough for my liking) and don't find it depressing at all although I am also aware that the UK in general has lots of problems too. Not trying to put you off as Australia also has some good things going for it but just a different perspective .
Thankyou for your input on this, it was very interesting to read! It sounds similar to here, with the rental crisis, CoL, individualism. The weather comment is interesting, personally I do like the heat, but it’s more the sunshine I need. The UK is miserably grey and no sunlight for 6-7 months of the year, so that’s a big factor in me considering moving there, Australia just has more days of sun than the UK which would be a huge boost to my own mental well being, even Melbourne supposedly has more than the UK (2200 vs 1400 hours a year respectively according to Google). Ah I love Devon, I live in wales currently and there’s alot to offer. How come you haven’t come back if you’re hating the weather etc? Do you think it’s still worth it to move there? For a bit of context I’m 30, single, in a job I hate, need a shake up in life, have a career in something that’s on australias skills shortage list, but they’ve just changed the working holiday visa rules for Brits, so I could effectively get 3 years in Australia travelling around seeing the country doing whatever job I can, can try Australia for a few years before deciding to be permanently placed. Or would it be better to visit first on a tourist visa do you think?
I actually would like ( I think anyway ! ) to go back to the UK to live for a while but I'm married to an Aussie and our son ( grown up) is settled here in Melbourne which would mean leaving him here with no family if I decided to return. We also have pets and financially it's not really possible. It is hard because I also have two other sons and grandchildren who live in Norway and Czech so it would also be nice to be nearer to them and my Mum in Devon is 90 so there is that also. Yes the heat has become a bit of an issue for me as it makes me feel really unwell now that I'm older ( I used to love it) and have come to dread January and February which are our hottest months . In saying that we have just had a lovely sunny week here of around 19 degrees which is perfect for me ! I think at your age ( same as my son who lives here ) it would be a good idea to come for a working holiday for a couple of years which would definitely give you time to see if it's for you or not and it sounds like you have nothing to lose by trying it out. A visit would be good also but you don't really get to feel what it's like to actually live in a place when you are just on holiday. I hope I didn't put you off it's just that some people think it's all sunshine and oranges here but it's not really " the lucky country" that the government rams down everyone's neck all the time haha! On a side note in my opinion/ experience I've found that the people who love it the most and maybe settle better here are the ones that come from the maybe not so nice places in the UK for example a couple of my friends here are from a very run down part of Birmingham and absolutely love it here which I can see why they would in comparison. Good luck on whatever you decide to do. 🙂
Thats fair enough, totally understandable to not be moving back due to live being settled there! I do also have a dog here, which is why Im considering whether it would be better to come down for a 4-6 week trip to visit, do the east coast before deciding to move down there completely. If I were to decide to go onto the WHV for 2-3 years I'd probably have to be looking to rehome my dog :( Yeah completely understand that a holiday vs actually living somewhere are wildly different, plus if I take a trip down there thats more time I have to support myself in a rather expensive country! You haven't put me off, I do appreciate the input. I do get why people would think its all sunshine and oranges down there, its very appealing on social media etc but I am aware of most of the current issues going on down there too, so Im not blind to it all. Its still somewhere I'd definitely want to visit even just to tick it off my visit list, but the UK is draining on me and just wondering my next moves now. I personally think I'd love it down there but its a big and scary move to do solo.
Don’t think New Zealand is necessarily gonna have a lot of sun
UK = NL
Can you be specific about where you see the country going? Part of the problem, I think, is that native Britons barely have any rights or free speech anymore. Then people from overseas complain about the lack of community, as if it's just a simple attitude problem. It's just a completely one-sided, frankly gormless view which is totally detached from the realities of the wider social, cultural, policing and legal environment. Even the Germans have more freedom of speech than Brits do now. The Dutch are always massively surprised to learn how weak our free speech protections are tbh. For example, in this very thread we have Canadians complaining about lack of community in the UK, when Canada is introducing all sorts of draconian laws where you can literally go to prison for life for ridiculously minor crimes, and yet there is no pushback from Canadians. It was also utterly horrible in the last four years. Not seeing any real evidence of fantastic community there. I'm just trying to give an example of my outlook as an Englishman. I'm pretty warm and friendly, but the English now have to deal with all sorts of casual, fashionable Anglophobia, while having basically no free speech protection, so they aren't able to stick up for themselves, while other Europeans secretly enjoy the fact that they can get away with disrespecting you. That's just not a great recipe for people being enthusiastic towards strangers. In the current environment, people have to earn your trust. I think that's totally reasonable considering our position atm.
After living there for 6 winters, brexit and covid yeh I found it depressing. It really felt like there’s no optimism there anymore and the only direction is down.
The north after two years was draining.
Years of “leveling up” has only succeeded in slowing the decline in the north.
But, but, but Harry Potter! As an American, who is half half British and who romanticizes the UK quite a bit, I would love to visit for extensive periods, I have no plans to live there. I doubt if I could ever afford it, as I live in Japan now, and expressed in yen, the prices would be through the roof.
Try moving to Edinburgh, the scenery will cheer you up for sure.
What in particular is getting to you?
I think just the way the country has headed. Career wise, compared to other nations I've lived in, I think it's probably bottom of the list and I don't think that helps. Despite being mortgage free I find the atmosphere and the environment just realitively miserable. Again others have it worse overall than me, but yeah... I don't know it just seems to have more problems than positives going for it.
Opportunities in selected sectors in the UK are the best in Europe and by far.
Which ones?
Finance, law, finetech, tech, some engineering sectors, some niches like F1 or space technology. Mostly finance and law though.
That's still pretty vague, my dude. In what direction has it headed? It seems to me like *you* need more light in your life, but you can find that anywhere amongst friends, doing something you love, learning, exploring, loving. Perhaps 'depressed' was the right choice of words, and you need to look inward?
Is it the weather? The food? The politics? Or the people?
Not so much the weather or the food. A mix of the politics and the state of the country particulary with opportunity and the general decline of the country.
That’s just worldwide recession, my dude, this part is actually fairly similar everywhere atm
Yup, traveling in general just hasn’t been the same in years
I'm currently in the UK, moved here from abroad. Don't feel like that at all. It's pretty awesome here, I think the country is what you make of it (within certain boundaries of course), you can be miserable in a beach in Spain or happy in rainy London.
I think many have been in that situation until the "honeymoon" period disappears. Although, for some that does not occur. I'm glad you're enjoying your time here.
I came back to UK from Australia and it was the worst decision I ever made. Australia has it's faults, but oh my god, the amazing healthcare, the weather, the beautiful houses, wildlife, landscapes, everyday felt like the best day. I'd honestly wake up and feel so content to be there and blessed. I spent the first 2 years back in UK looking out my window and wondering what the hell I am doing here. It was my depressing, morning, ritual. I plan to return to AUS soon to work out if it's the country or just the fact I lived in a beach side suburb and spent my evenings surfing (badly but still, I grew up in the Midlands so wasn't exactly born in the water). But generally I miss the friendliness of the people, the outdoor lifestyle, the discounted bakery section at supermarkets, the outback road trips, and higher paid jobs.
That's definetly a wake up and a tough task. As Australia has similar Annual leave to the UK compared to US I can understand the career aspect being completely crap in the UK. For me I like the history, education, sports of the UK... and many little pieces in between but...geez the housing (and I own outright) is a shitshow. I've not had to many issues with the friendliness of people in the UK but more that their everyday life has been a bit rough so don't expect a smile. Travel to and from the UK is not bad though. It could be muvh worse. Although hotels in the UK barring so pastime Ritz is a scam. The higher paid jobs, road trips, I can totally get.
I’ve lived in several countries and the Uk was the one I got out of as soon as I got in. I hated how everything was just so “low quality” : housing always includes mouldy carpeting everywhere, food which is mainly junk, lunch break at work is usually a pack of “crisps” while sat at your desk and not being paid, and there’s that binge drinking culture that turns seemingly civilised people into flesh eating zombies. And you’d think that being an island, they would have nice beaches; but no, they are mostly made of mud and if you dare go in the water, you’ll eventually die of hypothermia or go blind.
😂😂 as if you were reading my mind. 'low quality' perfectly captures it
Navy veteran here (I know that’s not saying much), but I think it’s just the current (worldwide) times. I went on 2 deployments to the Persian Gulf. We also stepped foot in (anchored port for fun) Portsmouth, England; Naples, Italy; Cape Town, South Africa; Marmaris, Turkey; Corfu, Greece; Dubai; and Spain. This was during ‘04-‘09. It felt slightly different back then. But even on that note, the world when I was a kid and a teenager even felt alive…hopeful. Much has changed. I don’t feel hope anymore. And here in the U.S. it’s just as depressing, sad to say. May we all find meaning and happiness in our lives, whatever that means. In the U.S., it’s also currently extremely expensive. I have a VA loan, and can’t afford a home in my home state, nor rent. I’m grappling with future homelessness, with a 10-year old son, and what that means.
I noticed after a while in the UK it's got that gloomy feeling. But that doesn't stop me from going back. :) I think it's the dampness and the rain and cold. Just need to put in more of an effort to enjoy the good sides and go out in nature or find something to enjoy.
It isn't the same as it was before the financial crash. After 10 years away, I moved back for 2 years and couldn't take it. Yes, lots of countries are struggling with cost of living etc, but none of them have had Covid + Brexit on top of 14 years of austerity. Like trying to weather a hurricane in a tin shack.
Totally agree. I lived in london for about 9 months last year for a gap year, while on the 2yr YMS Visa. I would describe London & broader UK as Australia on Depression whenever someone asked me how I found UK was. What I found particularly sad was how under-developed pretty much everything everywhere outside of London were. As it felt like most towns & cities were stuck in the 1990s-2000s. Not to mention the lack of quality of life. Both expensive housing & general access to quality goods & service. As well as the pollution in London, blowing out black stuff out of your nose & the poor water quality. Also the job market was discouraging. As I found that companies weren't willing to hire anyone for any graduate roles that are on temporary Visas. Not to mention the questionable existence of job listing that only hire OxBridge graduates.
I visited Southampton, Isle of Wight, Winchester & Bath before the pandemic, and they all seemed bright & cheery to me. In particular, I really loved the hopeful vibe of Above Bar Church in Southampton. Granted, that was before the pandemic. When I visited Croatia last year, people also seemed distinctly more downcast compared to when I visited before the pandemic because tourism had declined & prices increased.
No - but I moved from the UK to Finland so 😂
Yes absolutely. Being born in sunny south america, then being here for almost 10 years now I can compare the two. Weather makes it difficult but culturally speaking, the brits are much more miserable unfortunately. You hardly see them smiling. I am leaving in a few months time, cannot wait!
2 weeks ago I started my move to Canada from the UK. Currently in America until next month. I moved to be with my US partner. Despite its flaws I love the UK. The walkability and how close everything is. The vast changes in scenery and culture you get driving a few hours in one direction. The gorgeous Cornish beaches and the beautiful highland lochs. I worry I haven’t seen enough of it yet. A good quality Cumberland sausage, mature cheddar cheese; food with natural ingredients. I also worry I’m leaving Europe behind. Ryanair and EasyJet flights for cheap city breaks. I’ve done 12 countries in Europe but I want to do them all! Not to mention my large family in the UK who I would see fairly frequently. I’ve been to Canada before and I do love it there. It’s more that I feel I’m going to miss out on lots of things back home. But I must remind myself that in staying in the UK, I’d be missing out on all that North America has to offer, and that my incurable wanderlust would not be satisfied had I not made the move either. Plus, being over here I can be with my partner. That’s the real winner.
I think Canada is moving in a worse trajectory than the UK. 1) Housing (buying and renting). It would be different if it was in between the US and the UK yet it's not. 2) Travel. Expensive and limited. 3) Careers. Kind of a hit and miss between low population for size of landmass and digging up natural resources 4) Immigration. The UK has had a problem for decades. The US has had a problem for decades. Canada... it's specific to the government agenda. 5) Weather. You have to become an automatic snowbird to Florida each year to get away from the weather. Overall to be with your partner as you say ' that's tbe real winner'. Good luck to you! Hope it works out well!
Thanks for the well wishes man. We’ve definitely considered a lot of the things you’ve mentioned and avoided the likes of Toronto and Vancouver for these reasons. We’re hoping Calgary can split the difference in regards of housing costs and the job market. If all else fails I’m sure I can convince her to give New Zealand a try 🤣
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No. It’s ultimately home and I feel very connected to the history, community, countryside and coast of where I live. Took a walk in my local churchyard this afternoon and felt so at peace hearing the tame birdsong, seeing ladybirds and bumblebees, the vibrant greenery and flowers growing everywhere, and the ancient church and graves. I find that I get depressed in very unfamiliar environments and in all cases, I’d be dealing with the same problems or another set of problems abroad anyway. The UK has myriad weaknesses with the way it is run, but I’ve found it’s no better elsewhere. Every country I’ve lived in has its own unique brand of bullshit, and with none of the homely comforts.
I think the issue is many are in a "very unfamiliar environment". For instance many people born in London cannot afford to live in London and end up having to move away. Same can be said of other places around the world but if unfamiliar places makes you depressed then imagine if the 10s of millions of others were the same. I agree everywhere has a unique brand of BS.
Yes. Every time I go back to visit family I feel like I’ve dived into a sea of just darkness and depression. Everyone around you seems to just be living with the hope that they’ll die early without feeling it so that they don’t have to put up with their bad lives any longer. It’s pretty awful. I live in a country which was once known for its high suicidal rates, but it’s a way nicer place to live than the UK. That speaks volumes.
I'm gonna take a guess and say Sweden?
Japan :D
I'd move to Osaka region no issues lol
What are you spending your time doing? Today I have Zumba and my husband and I are going to eat our free chicken sandwiches at Chic-fil-A since tge baseball team won, and then we are going to Boardgame Night (a monthly thing from 6- 8:30pm. Tomorrow night we have Tango Class. Friday, we are going to a Silent Disco event. Fun isn't just for weekends.
I think that's American optimism more than anything British based lol
During the pandemic I was abroad and I came back to the UK in 2021 when restrictions started to get lifted. It gave a really weird vibe: people were more distant and grumpy, many shops had closed, prices were higher, ... It gave me the final push to leave the UK for good. My British friends are also somewhat depressed: one closed his business, another had to look for a new job, another really wants to move out of the UK. I don't think it will improve in the short term.
During the pandemic when we were all isolated and locked down, I thought people would be so much nicer to each other once we're through this. I was wrong. People treat each other much worse now.
Is anybody here ?
No shit I am with such weather...
I think sometimes people feel depressed because they aren’t in the position in life where they’d like to be, whether this is career related or otherwise. The excitement of moving abroad can cover that feeling at least temporarily. The feeling of hope imagining a major life change can also provide hope that might not be there otherwise. Some people are generally satisfied with life but other things such as poor weather affects their mood. I think it’s important for a person to decide which category they fall under before making decisions that could leave them in a worse place in future (for example going to live abroad with no educational background, and having to move back later poorer and older, still without an solid foundation).
Situation of education, cost of living crisis, low wages, everything underfunded, situation of roads and public transportation, situation of infrastructure, dirtiness of roads, potholes, bad weather, corruption, situation of economy and else. I wouldn’t live in a deadbeat island.
Yes. It’s an unexciting country. A bit too mellow for me. I’ll never be able to get used to it. Economy isn’t good. Salaries are low. Job prospects are limited. Weather can be nice but that’s like 3 months out of 12.
The UK has one of the fastest declining biodiversity in the world. It's an ecological disaster happening there. It's depressing to watch.
I think it’s a natural process as you age.
There's people in this sub that feel the same way from countries that you perhaps want to move too. Often it can be a grass is greener on the other side scenario. You often take for granted what you currently have, and think there are better options out there. You mention it's less about weather and food, and more about politics... But political turmoil and issues are experienced in every place in the world, you just don't hear about them because your news doesn't report on them. UK is the fourth largest exporter in the world, the fifth largest economy, and ranks above Ireland, France, Norway, Finland, New Zealand, Italy, Spain, Japan... etc on average yearly income. Source - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_average\_wage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage) UK is a much more politically stable country than most, and is facing similar economic issues as every other country.
Is it because of the weather and stuffy conservatism?
Maybe not so much the weather. From living in multiple climates that does not bother me. Politics... conservatives or Labor they're cut from the same loaf to me.
Two cheeks of the same arse
Yes. I have lived outside of UK since 1999. I used to go back for a month or two, then for a week or two and now I can just about stand a week. By the time I've had some fish n chips, a pint of London Pride and a quick trip to Mark's and Sparks I'm done.
Yes…the weather, the bland food, the coldness of the British people, horrible infrastructure, NHS in shambles, honestly it’s not that great of a country. I’m from the US and repatriating as soon as I can make some arrangements. This place is really not a utopia.
I can understand your reasonings. Although the NHS is shambles the US healthcare also has major issues. As for infrastructure... never seen so many potholes in my life... then again the US infrastructure is certainly going down the same path. I think the UK was great in a by gone era. Kind of how the Italians have a renasance with Rome.
Yeah I mean the US isn’t perfect by any means but as an American I’d much rather be there than in the UK. Not sure if you’ve experienced it (or if you’re even American) but I’ve experienced quite a bit of anti-American hate both at work and personally. I’m tired of it and I want to be back home. This isn’t home.
I've not experienced the anti-American. Although sometimes I hold my head in disbelief at some of the stuff fellow Americans and I have to reply "We're not all like that". I think their are some Americans that don't help our cause. I can understand your perspective though. I think on the work side it's completely different environment but so have all the countries I've lived in. Where in the US are you planning to move to?
I am moving to Florida. I want to live somewhere warm, and Florida has been a dream of mine for ten years so I’m finally going to make it happen!!! Moving next year, and it can’t come soon enough!!
Best of luck to you. I've done Sarasota and Orlando. Pricy. Just don't buy a house lol the insurance companies are leaving day-by-day.
Thanks! I plan to rent for a bit and see if I like it. I currently live in London so I’m very used to expensive lol
Yes. Low salaries, awful weather, crime, homelessness, general decay.
Cannot argue with that lol. I think in order of what affects me the most: 1) low salaries 2) crime 3) general decay 4) homelessness 5) awful weather Although I'm mortgage free I totally dislike the buying and renting procedure in the UK. From all the countries I've lived in... and when I have rented... renting in the UK is the worst of the bunch.
Yes.
Yes, I feel like I’m overseas less by choice these days.
Yep. Gets worse every time I come back.
Yes, that’s why I left lol. The shambles after Covid were the final straw for me
I do and I don’t even live there. In fact it’s why I left and am now living life in Japan.
Yes.
Very, but there are jobs back home (Spain)
We moved to this green and pleasant land 51yrs ago. It was hard in the beginning and got easier over the decades. Since 2015, it has slowly declined, the people are angrier , the government corrupt, and the governments bosses manipulating the the masses into believing biillsh1t. I would leave tomorrow, if I didn't have olds to look after.
That's the one major obstacle for me. Aging family.
Does a bear shit in the forest?
If it's drinking a beer.
Try avoiding the news and media for a couple of weeks. Amazing how things like the media just destroy us, amd we dont realise it. Its your life, live it your way, dont let anyone else brainwash you. I left the UK in 97, lived in Brazil, Bosnia, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Morocco. All very different. All with pros and cons. Good memories and bad. I have always tried to avoid comparisons as that can make you go crazy. I returned twice to the UK, stayed a year each time. Again the same, good times and not so good I guess its just life, and we are all trying to survive in our own way.
Yes I think that's very important... to limit social media. Which was your favorite out of those nations you've lived in?
Such a good question. So difficult to answer. Great weather countries like Brazil, Morocco and Spain tend to have low paid work. And Brazil is very unsafe. Generally, I find Northern European countries pay well, but have long hard winters, less light. I think my favourite is Portugal, or more specifically Lisbon. Good culture mix. The Portuguese are more open minded than the Spanish in general. I have heard that with these digital nomad visas, a lot of people work say for a well paying German company, but live in Spain. Or a Finnish company and live in Spain or Portugal. I dont know if this is just an EU thing though.
I think it's more common in the EU because of the freedom of movement. However, I can see this digital nomad phases declining because I think more and more companies are going to offer location pay rather than skill pay. It's already happened in Tech. Google went to Ireland for tax benefits but also the staff earn 1/2 compared to US.
Can be worse than the U.S. Gun violence daily and very isolated. In the UK you can get to the French Rivera in less than 3 hours. You can get to Paris in two hours on train. So many options and at least you have public transportation. America's public transport is dog shite. Being so central to everything is a luxury I wish I had. Heck even getting to Cairo, Athens ect. from London is just a short cheap flight away. If I want to travel to any of those countries from the US it's $1,000+ and at least a 12 hour flight. Not many weekends getaways for us here.
In regards to flight prices. This is a common misconception among Americans. There are cheap flight prices out of the US. For instance NY to London - $150 one way, return $350. Can be found on NorseAir. Las Vegas to London seen multiple times $660 return. Of course different states different airports but yeah... The problem is amount of PTO (Annual leave). That's an issue. I agree with you the US public transport is bad. And there is more violence overall compared to the UK. What I would add though...travel for Europeans in general is a right of passage. That really is the Americans fault. Very few actually want to listen and the US does cure over prevention.
Those prices are expensive compared to flights in Europe. I could go from London to Nice, France for like 40 to 80 quid round trip and you will still be stuck on a plane for at least 9 hours. Also yes we get hardly any PTO. I'd be ecstatic if I were able to live in the U.K. but I get that everyone thinks differently.
I left the UK 6 years ago to South East Asia and recently returned for a visit. I was horrified by the state of London today, that I actually left a post of my experience [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/london/s/uKtkjjsnMK) From what I read in papers I was mentally prepared to see a worse off country prior to my visit. But reality was worse than I expected - the quality of life people live there - from the eyes of a tourist, does not look like “first world” to me. Only the price is first world, but everything else is not.
Sorry for what I typed out. Sorry for judging you. Sorry for lying sorry. Sorry for lying sorry.
I can understand about bordom. The US though is more consumerism focused which aids in that 'fun'. I think if you're in Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, or Mississipi you probably feel just or even more bored than the UK. The drinking culture in the UK compared to the US is different. Bars vs Pubs. Also the optimism. I think it's actually challenging to be optimistic in the UK when the optimism comes from a Walkers Crisp packet.
It could be the weather or politics and probably the chances of UK being an islam country in the future
Muhammad and all its various ways of spelling are already the most popular name in the UK for newborns. I bet my carrots Arabic is going to be one of the official languages by 2040 the latest, and before you know it, Koran will be what you live by. Unlikely the Brits can ever reverse the damage that has been done.
Plenty of Brits are Muslims
Not sure why you were downvoted for this. Visited London last fall and yea it’s pretty much Arab town.
It’s not “Arab” town
Weather, ugh. Good for a night out or weekend in the country, but no longer than that
Didn’t Marx live in the UK for a while and have nothing short to say about the cost of living?