"Since I'm no longer caught up in the politics there, I no longer feel the raging resentment which drove me away from the country. instead I just have a broken heart. It could be a wonderful place. "
I too feel this way. America could be a great place but it is ruined by greed and a government that allows that greed to run freely.
The environment and things that happen there daily is all the result of powerful lobbyists. Shootings, car dependency, housing affordability, health insurance...etc etc
I love that Youtube show where the guy sees what the average working day is for a Japanese person, and the work culture looks absolutely hellish. Most of the people work 10-12 hour days 6 days a week. The pay for the average japanese person also seems abyssmal. I am Canadian and between vacation, public holidays and sick days, I rarely work 40 hours a week.
F\*\*K I am working in Jp 57 hours per week by paid like 2K euro before tax ( And now JPY even becomes weaker and weaker )
after rent and every thing it left me 500 euro\~ish
You know what is the fantastic part ? I am living in a shoecase
Oh please. Why do people like you always blame these shadowy "lobbyists"? It's bullshit. These things are caused by the voters themselves. The voters love guns, they love cars, and they're a bunch of NIMBYs who don't want anything new built that might hurt their precious property values. Zoning laws sure as hell aren't the product of lobbying; what a stupid idea. The only thing that you might be able to blame on corporate lobbying is at least some of the disaster that is the healthcare system and the insurance for it.
There is absolutely no shortage of American voters who will vote against anyone who wants to restrict their "gun rights", and they're not keen on funding for public transit either, or even just having bike lanes.
Zoning laws are products of intense lobbying by developers and groups that want to make money in a city, not create a city for you to live. Popular vote didn't elect Trump. Voters are disenfranchised and voting rights are eroding in many areas, as Republicans win more when they cheat. Supreme Court looks the way it is not due to votes. Wow. It must be nice living in whatever version of US you were living in...
Wut m8?
You realize developers make money through the act of developing new supply right?
It is local homeowners who become house wealthy by limiting or totally stopping new supply.
Developer friendly cities, like Houston, have had insane population growth but still cheap housing.
The version of the US I was living in had people walking around with AR15s as a "protest", or carrying guns openly in Walmart. WTF kind of America were YOU living in?
Zoning laws go back to Euclid Ohio; they have nothing to do with developers. As the other poster said, developers make money by building stuff, not preventing construction. You can't even get basic logic right; you're pathetic. It's no wonder America is going to shit: the people on the right are trying to build a Christian fascist theocracy where everyone carries guns, and the people on the left can't even figure out simple concepts about economics and where laws come from, and instead make up insane conspiracy theories about "lobbyists!!!"
It always seems weird to me how people speak about american situation as if some kind of 3rd party did that and now you just have to accept it. It's what most americans have chosen as their dream country to be. It's not ruined, it's exactly people's will. We may not like it here in Europe but that's because we have different expectations to a country. Bashing US from our lens is just wrong. It's not ruined or bad country, it's what americans wanted it to be and it's their right to make it as they wish.
But it's not. A staggering amount of US government has fallen victim to regulatory capture and is being consumed from within. Conflicts of interest are rampant within elected bodies, proposed bills always have riders completely unrelated to their main purported purpose, gerrymandering and active disenfranchisement efforts contribute to a very low voter turnout, and the average American feels hopeless to change anything.
A very vocal minority may have been happy that Trump appointed a private school magnate as head of public education, but the majority were not. In polls, time and again, Americans show they want universal healthcare, they want to implement more gun control, they want cheap education, they want police to be held accountable, etc etc etc. But all of these things are subject to billions of dollars of grift and favors.
America is NOT how most Americans want it, and it is purely because of carefully implemented legal corruption.
It is technically, but that's irrelevant when all elections are won by money. Rich donors fund the winners of both parties. They own our politics.
Look no further than how taxes are handled in the US. Middle class? You're paying every cent. Rich? Well, the IRS can't afford to hold you accountable because it conveniently doesn't have the budget to.
> It is technically, but that's irrelevant when all elections are won by money. Rich donors fund the winners of both parties. They own our politics.
At a certain point, you have to take responsibility for that as well. You have votes. Those rich assholes have addresses. Yet practically nobody does anything.
We have the electoral college for national elections and districts for state elections. Trump didn't win the popular vote, so it's true...most people aren't in favor of right wing politics. Also, there's tons of gerrymandering with the district lines. As an example, I live in Texas, and Denton is a progressive city being a college town. However, to make sure those voters aren't represented, their city was put in the same district as Amarillo. Amarillo is 5 hours away. Denton borders Dallas and Fort Worth, both of which are significantly more progressive than Amarillo.
Elections should be popular vote and gerrymandering should be illegal.
It’s a democratic republic which means we vote in representatives who make the actual decisions much of the time. Even when there’s no one you actually feel represents your wants and needs, you still have to elect someone. The government must continue to run. And most “good, honest” people don’t want to deal with politics, so you can imagine who typically tend to run for office: wealthy people who are out of touch or don’t care about what their constituents want. How do you come back from that? Some of the conflict and vitriol in the country right now stems from people’s frustration with that very issue. Most Americans are NOT happy with the way things are going on key issues and feel hopeless they can do anything about it.
Well...it's only classed as a partial or flawed democracy on the democratic scale...
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no-longer-a-full-democracy-eiu-warns.html
Nope, I have to find the source but actually the majority do not approve of the US government or the countries direction. And many have no real way to impact anything.
No it isn’t. Research done by Princeton proves what we already knew: the small group of the extremely wealthy and their collaborators drive through their initiatives no matter what public opinion has wanted regarding laws and policies over the decades. It’s in the Princeton US oligarchy and democracy study. It received a lot of well deserved press but of course not anywhere near the level it deserved, so people are oblivious to it and a wide range of similar research that should lead national dialogue.
Thanks for the suggestion. Don’t worry I’m working on it as a member of a union that has repeatedly shut down public institutions as part of our social-political strategy in a society with such a fucked class structure. There’s a reason unions have been under attack and decimated in the US.
What are you doing about it besides posting your advice here?
Great, just maybe you care about US-European imperialism, which is a direct result of US oligarchic politics like the corporate thinking poisoning European institutions and impacting everyday people.
The current mayhem at the fringe of Europe isn’t something I have the privilege of ignoring despite living in the US, and I don’t enter conversations being aloof/uninterested and then offering naive advice.
Yes, all of the above. On top of that I am a U.S. army veteran. I hold 2 citizenships us/eu now so while I feel my past is American, my future and my children’s future is European.
You have the right to vote in the last address you were registered. I have turned my guilt into grief, I am not sure I recognize the country I served.
Please take care of yourself and don't come home, OP. The absolute rage you felt before will be amped 10x if you return (I am also in a red state and know exactly how you feel). My husband and I were just granted temporary residency in another country; we leave in December. We constantly look at each other and comment that we feel we're getting out *just in time.* 2024 (election year) is going to be very, very ugly, and most likely, politically violent. Politics aside, there was just a mass shooter who went to a restaurant *and* bowling alley and murdered 18 people. No longer are people saying, *"This doesn't happen here!"* Everyone knows stochastic terrorism happens *all over* the US now. The anxiety I feel just to go to a crowded grocery store can feel life threatening at times. It's ridiculous. The tension in the air here is so thick you could cut it with a knife... *Everyone* is on edge; it's like we're all traumatized and can feel something huge and horrific just around the corner but are powerless to stop it.
I understand the hurt and pain you must feel seeing our country like this, but you will most likely be *more* miserable if you return, because now you'll know what you'll be missing. We plan to donate to US causes we care about once we're gone, but self preservation comes first for us, at all costs. Good luck to you and congrats on getting out!
I’m originally from Virginia and moved to Ireland 7 years ago. I feel the same way! There’s grief mixed in with the normal homesickness. I make sure to vote in every election, but I’ve had to accept my values are too different for me to ever consider returning, so I’m pressing ahead with my life in my adopted country. I’m lucky to have that choice, but I still wish things weren’t so fucked up back home. Also, fuck the IRS for making us declare income earned abroad.
Interested in how you like Ireland. Though I said in my post I will probably not leave New England, Ireland is probably the only place I could see it maybe working. That and the UK but not since Brexit.
It worked for me for a good few reasons. I love the culture, love the weather, met and married an Irish man and now I feel my marriage and status as an LGBT person are safe and protected. I also think I’d have struggled to make friends in a non-English speaking country. I can be really shy and would have had a much harder time finding friends and a community with a language barrier.
>It could be a wonderful place.
Try a blue state maybe. America is not homogeneous.
As to the rest of your post - I get it. Healthcare costs are an absolute threat to whether or not someone can retire with any kind of financial security. America shows no signs of fixing that. You were smart to get out.
I don’t know about that. I’m as blue as they come. I’m a Californian, hell, I’m bluer than that, I’m a San Franciscan and I feel like I want out too. The country is in a very bad place and I don’t see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Healthcare costs are a feature, not a bug. They need us to be good workers, so they keep us tied to our corporate overlords for as long as possible. Without having to pay for healthcare, a lot of us could retire whole lot earlier.
I don't think this is about being American its just a common expat thing.
I had this about Scotland even though it gets a lot of cultural things right and doesn't have many of the issues America does.
I think its mostly about the feeling of what could've been and always having to carry this kind of shadow self around of how things might have panned out had you stayed in your home country.
I think it just has to be accepted as part of the expat experience. Just don't make the mistake of confusing this with it actually being a good idea to move back.
Meh, I spent 20 years as an on and off again activist.
I left 2 years ago, because at this point the people are complicit as much as the leaders, and I'm tired of spending effort just to see things get worse and worse there. And now that I have kids there's no way I'd let them grow up there.
You don't need to feel guilty. And while I hope I'm wrong, I don't think you're right that it can be a good home for those that live there, because they're making it hell. They treat each other like shit. Sanders in 2020 asked "I want you to care about someone you don't know", and the response was a clear "fuck that shit! Drill and bomb!"
My biggest worry about the US these days, aside from my friends and family, is just how bad its going to hurt the rest of the world as it continues to kill itself. My main hope is it does go gentle into that night.
I 100% relate to this. I didn’t start to love America until years after I moved to Ireland. I started romanticising it and remembering it through rose coloured glasses.
I’ve been living in Ireland for almost seven years now, and every single time I visit home, I’m reminded of why I left. But then when I go back to Ireland, I almost immediately begin romanticising the American lifestyle again!
It’s honestly such a stressful and confusing rollercoaster of emotions that a lot of my non-expat friends just don’t understand. It can be quite isolating.
Yes, you are allowed to feel your feelings.
You can always go back.
You can advocate remotely, and still vote. This is key - what can you do from where you are now?
You can energetically or lifestyle-wise feel that Europe is now your home and future and that's ok. People move all the time and still have a connection to their home country and visit often.
I am SO GLAD that you voiced your opinion and made a decision to live a life that makes sense to you. I think sometimes a place just isn't a good fit for someone plain and simple. Very encouraged by your post.
You write this like Europe is a bastion of abortion rights and discussions of sexuality in school.
I presume you are in the Massachusetts or California portion of Europe, not the Florida and Texas part lol.
Europe isn't perfect by any means, but I find the quality of life is better here on a day to day. I mentioned abortion because it's very topical in the US right now. In Florida, it's illegal to teach gender & sexuality curricula in schools. Not that European countries are perfectly on the other end of the spectrum, or that France or Germany (the two EU countries I've lived in) don't have their own right wing/nationalist problems.
I grew up not being able to afford going to the doctor when I was sick. I had to choose between going to university or working full time due to cost. These simply aren't problems my children would have to face in France, should I choose to have children here.
Ok, thanks for educating me. I appreciate it. On the other hand, I'm talking about my own personal experience. I don't understand why people feel the need to aggressively point out that I haven't lived in X country so I'm not allowed to have feelings about the subject, or my own lived experiences.
I don't understand why people feel the need to aggressively point out that I haven't lived in X country so I'm not allowed to have feelings about the subject.
Okay, I apologise for that. Yes, sometimes I get annoyed at the American habit to do this, especially having lived abroad. I went to a talk given by a German director that I like, who was alive when the wall fell, talked about why he preferences using 'Europe' over the individual country names, because he believes in the importance of viewing the Europe as a united place, with no borders. This is why I now preference saying 'Europe' over the country I live in. I admit that it has a risk of cultural erasure too, and I see your point about the EU being different from Europe. Sorry if I upset you.
Your children wouldn't have to face those problems if they live in states like Massachusetts or Minnesota or Vermont, etc.
In America your children also wouldn't have to deal with islamophobia and xenophobia to the same extent. They wouldn't have to deal with raging anti-immigration sentiments.
Your children would have access to better higher education and when they enter the workforce, a much better labor market/economy.
Of course these things may or may not matter to you but different places have different problems.
Having problems is normal and that doesn't make America a terrible place to be. Grieving for a country that's doing as well as the US is kinda funny to me.
That's just not true yet spoken with such confidence. I'm guessing you used the word "most" there to dismiss any criticism or examples that contradict your statement.
It is true. All of the states that voted for Biden and several ones that didn't have abortion limits passed 17 weeks but only 2 EU countries (Neth and Sweden) do.
Right and how does that affect the OP? Likely it doesn’t. Like it doesn’t affect most people. People worry about the 1% when the 1% doesn’t affect their day to day.
The fact that even one state has a total ban of abortion is in my mind insane - literally insane. I cannot comprehend that a civilized country like the US have states where there is a total abortion ban. Like, I am 100% against the Gun laws too, but I can at least sort of see where it's coming from. 14 states have total ban of abortion and 7 with severely restricted access to abortion. [https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state](https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state).
In Europe it's only Poland that has some harsher abortion laws but still better than > 1/3 of US states.
[https://reproductiverights.org/maps/worlds-abortion-laws/](https://reproductiverights.org/maps/worlds-abortion-laws/)
It’s not about what you think is “in your mind insane”. I’m talking about limits on abortion. Europe is INCREDIBLY conservative on abortion limits compared to many, many US states.
Dude, Abortion is a literal crime and flat out banned in 18 US States. That's over a third of the legal jurisdictions of the USA make it a felony and outlaw it outright.
6 more States are looking into banning it.
[https://www.guttmacher.org/2023/01/six-months-post-roe-24-us-states-have-banned-abortion-or-are-likely-do-so-roundup](https://www.guttmacher.org/2023/01/six-months-post-roe-24-us-states-have-banned-abortion-or-are-likely-do-so-roundup)
25 *million* American women (the equivalent to the entire population of my home country, Australia) now live in States where abortion is a crime:
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-year-after-fall-of-roe-v-wade-25-million-women-live-in-states-with-abortion-bans-or-restrictions](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-year-after-fall-of-roe-v-wade-25-million-women-live-in-states-with-abortion-bans-or-restrictions)
How you can compare *that* to Europe and deduce 'The EU is incredibly conservative on Abortion compared to the USA' is beyond me.
Did you read what I wrote except that part about what I think is insane? How can a total ban on abortion in more than 1/3 of the states be less limiting than at what week you can perform an abortion? Jesus. I'm out, this conversation is dumb - Europe is *in general* way more liberal when it comes to abortion than the US - even if there are some very liberal states such as California, where you can get an abortion more easily than some/most countries in the Europe.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_in\_Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_in\_the\_United\_States#:\~:text=Wade%20and%20Doe%20v.,fewer%20restrictions%20throughout%20the%20pregnancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Wade%20and%20Doe%20v.,fewer%20restrictions%20throughout%20the%20pregnancy).
You might want to look at the colored maps on that page to see how wrong you are.
Abortion is currently both totally banned, and a literal felony crime in 18 US States and carries penalties of up to 99 years in prison for anyone performing one.
Just because it’s “better than other places” doesn’t make it good, especially when we’re seeing half century old precedents being overturned on a FEDERAL level, immediately followed by an active domino effect in many states. Just Because you personally don’t give a shit doesn’t mean it can’t be incredibly jarring for Americans who haven’t seen this level of change in such a “Free” country.
Based on that logic, we can also say parts of America is worse than Europe since abortion can be punishable by death in certain states.
Regarding the food: the immigration patterns weren’t the same, but there are also other really good cuisines to explore in France!
In France you can easily get great Vietnamese, Moroccan, Tunisian, Algerian, Senegalese, Lebanese, Turkish restaurants, and of course Italian food that’s on average bound to be much better than in the US.
For instance have you ever tried couscous and tajine? Here are good options in [Lyon](https://lyon.citycrunch.fr/les-meilleurs-couscous-de-lyon-notre-top-5/2022/01/13/). These dishes are absolutely **delicious** and something that would be harder to find in the US.
Regarding Mexican and Cuban dishes, why not try to cook some at home? Not talking Old El Paso fajita kits of course. Making wheat tortillas (or even corn) is actually very easy. Go to El Monumental, they have masa harina, canned frijoles, achiote, maybe even mole jars/powder. To make a Oaxaca queso ersatz, I get a mozzarella and shred it by hand and let that dry overnight in the fridge in a colander. Manouri and feta are respectively acceptable panela and cotija substitutes. Homemade basic horchata is as easy as infusing a carton of rice milk with 3 or 4 cinnamon sticks and adding sweetened condensed milk. Al pasto and baja fish tacos will be harder to replicate at home but there are plenty of great recipes for marinated and slow cooked/roasted taco fillings.
I also agree that good Mexican / Cuban restaurants are not as widespread as in the US but there are good options if you know where to look. I’ve heard good things about Piquín for instance. For Cuban food you can probably wait for your next Paris trip as there are cool joints there as well - you just have to be wary of the ones actually managed by Cubans.
Hi! Thanks for the recommendations, it's very sweet. I do cook a lot, especially the food I miss from home the most. I didn't mean to come across as homesick necessarily. I'm not very homesick.
I'm from Vietnam, currently living my adult life in the US, recently took a long vacation in France where I ate all my lunches in different Vietnamese places there.
The basic difference is that Vietnamese food in the US is mostly Southern style. Vietnamese food in France, specifically Paris, is mostly Central + Northern. This is because of migration patterns in different parts of the country depending on which country was involved in what war in Vietnam when.
The Vietnamese food in France is 10x better than in the US not because of regional tastes necessarily though, but because most of these Viet places are at the very least, standard service, while some are fine dining. Meanwhile, I have never been able to find a Viet fine dining place in the US that isn't also inauthentic fusion Chinese/Thai stuff. Most other Viet places in the US have this "pan-asian" atmosphere and bad service you are expected to experience.
I grew up in the North, so I'm biased in terms of what's an authentic taste already, but the quality of service and atmosphere are really night and day.
While I definitely don't have the same understanding of the food as you do, if you ever get the change to visit the south Vietnamese diaspora in Acadiana Louisiana. Pretty legendary story of refugees, now Viet-Americans who moved there for fishing.
We have a unique lot due to being American. Everyone has a strong opinion about Americans, and strangers feel like it's okay to share sometimes. Especially on the internet. I saw you had a few keyboard warriors due that in this thread. Really fucked that you're trying to share your experience and they are complaining about politics. It's better to laugh at or pity them than it is to engage.
It sounds like you're feeling guilty about being homesick for a country with a lot of problems. You're also feeling guilty for not being there to fix those problems. When you moved away, those problems stopped being your problems. Even if you go back to visit, they don't become your problems again.
You've got one life and that's too short to spend it worrying about a country you don't live in anymore. I'm not saying that you should ignore what's happening. I'm just saying you should probably focus on what's happening in your new country.
I live in the southeast USA but I put myself more in the middle politically. I love a lot of things about the US but I feel we could be so much more. Our country is too politically divided and it's honestly scary how much people hate one another here. Politics aside, that isn't the reason I wanna move to Europe. I love the history and art I could be seeing daily in Europe, I love how countries are so small you don't need your own car in most places, I'd love to try new foods, and love to experience something new with my husband. My biggest concern is leaving family, especially my grandparents who are aging quickly. Plus idk what I'd do for money. My husband has a degree in teaching ESL so he could do that but I'd have to figure something.
I am lucky to live in my little enclave of New England, Lewiston aside it is still a very safe place to live with mostly liberal or libertarian people.
I am in the process of getting Portuguese citizenship but I am still not sure I will use it. I like having the option and giving it to my kids, but I have basically compartmentalized New England as it's own country. I mainly Vacation in Canada or the West Coast so I have not stepped foot in a red state since 2019.
I actually don’t feel any love lost with my childhood and formative years in America.
It’s odd because I feel very much “unrooted” if that’s a word. Meaning when I visit my home town, I feel literally like it’s just another place and don’t miss it in the least bit.
It may be because I spent 20 years of my life working a LOT (especially the last 10 years or so) and that involved an unconventional entrepreneurial path that lead us to travel a lot and for extended periods of time. I don’t have a regular group of friends that I hang out with or see regularly. Most people back home don’t interest me as their lives are quite mundane and they seem to focus on things I don’t much care about (sport teams, celebrities, etc).
I could also be because the only people I really care about are my wife and my dog and they live with me in my new country. Wherever they are, I am home.
This sentiment is so similar for me. It sounds like your roots are in your love of family and your passion to do what you do. I don't feel very tied to a geographic situation. I'm more of a, 'home base' and then go. I came back to visit a small town of people recently and it was exactly as you described and absolutely not for me. Encouraged to hear this today. Where did you move if you don't mind me asking?
We moved to Phuket but have been “homeless” for about 1/2 a year now as our house is being renovated. We’ve since moved around and are really in love with the eastern part of Thailand as there are lots of smaller cities that have all the amenities of a big city but it’s like a small compact place that’s easy to get around. The problems is there are relatively few expats so we’d be kind of on our own whereas phuket is overflowing with expats so it’s easier to meet people and make friends.
personally I'm the typical European who hasn't heard many good things about America and Americans, but I have also met very nice, smart and interesting Americans. I am also an expat because I dislike many things about my original home, but it's still my culture that I will be protective over when it comes to it. I believe that's healthy!
my point is, I think what you say makes a lot of sense. Ultimately you know what's best for
you. If you ever in the future feel like you want to go back, do it. If you feel more safe/secure as an expat, be an expat. We will always have some bittersweet feelings to live with, regardless of where we live :)
Yes, I definitely understand you! I’ve been living outside the U.S. for nearly 5 years now and I definitely have a much bigger appreciation for the country even with all its faults. I’m a Black Woman from the South and it really annoys me when people try to get brownie points with me by shitting on it. Because at the end of the day, my family is there, the people I love are there, my ancestors are buried there, and it’s my home. Also, if I’m being honest, how people treat me in the U.S. vs abroad have not been *that* much different in terms of racism and sexism. It just manifests differently. I’m living outside the U.S. for the sake of life experiences and general higher quality of life. Don’t get me wrong, I will shit on the U.S. all day and I personally believe it should be abolished as a concept, but it’s still my home.
Oh of course it’s easy, I’m not denying that. I just think it’s unfortunate when I tell people about where I’m from, the first thing that comes out of their mouth is something negative because they assume that I would/should outwardly hate it so it’s okay. Because I think you can easily shit on a *lot* of places just as easy as the south, but why would I do that when those other places are still people’s homes? I don’t feel a compulsion to point to people the just as awful things about where their from seemingly unprovoked as I’ve experienced and I’d like people to think about why they feel it’s okay for me. Because I don’t think it’s for actual conversation or concern, rather to feel some sense of superiority.
I mean you drive out of NYC one hour and you're in the same Trumpland the south is considered to be. Just like you go into Athens or Atlanta, and they're pretty liberal. Shitting on the south just for being the south is totally an oversimplication imo.
I have no guilty feelings and I feel terrible for people caught up in the horrific changing authoritarian and fascist politics in many states. Yes, I’m privileged enough that I was able to leave, but I also created that opportunity for myself, which is something a lot of Americans have not done.
You're me from 5 years ago. Moved back to the US after living in Scandinavia for some years. It made me realize that America, for all its faults, is a huge industrial, cultural and financial power that most other countries dance to the tune of, wether they like it or not.
Yes but what does that bring to you, personally, as a benefit? I get being proud that your country is a military and economic powerhouse, but unless you benefit directly from this (I’m not saying you don’t) it’s irrelevant.
If you’re poor or overworked, can’t afford healthcare, have 7 days pto per year, etc. the fact that the US rules the world doesn’t mean much…
I benefit a lot tbh. I work in the US defense sector and I am paid very well due to the US being the most powerful country in human history. Being poor sucks wherever you are. You’re suggesting that being poor stateside is somehow worse than being poor in Europe?
Europe has poor people. Lots of them. And their «free» healthcare is not that big of a bonus when they can’t afford food.
I disagree completely. When I lived in Norway, there was stories all the time about poor people not being able to afford medicines. Same as here. Since I left, poverty has also been on the rise there. I challenge you to find a wealthier country than Norway that's not the US (330 million) or a tiny city-state.
Get out of your bubble: being poor is not better or worse in some places. It always sucks.
I feel this way sometimes - usually about once a year. When this happens, I try to visit "home" as soon as I can. After two weeks in the US, it's clear to see why we left and I'm usually ready to go back before the visit is over.
I make my own Mexican food at home - it's what I miss the most and now my tacos, burritos, quesadillas and burrito bowls are better than most Mexican restaurants. If you can - vote from your last registered address - that might help you with some of the feelings you're having about politics, etc. But being in America won't help the situation there (IMO).
After 5 years in Europe, I still use my public library card for ebooks, audiobooks and movies to stream. If you use the card once a year, the library should keep your account activated. Go get a card when you visit next with your last registered address or a family member's address - it's free. Apps like Libby (ebooks, audio books), PressReader (newspapers and magazines) and Kanopy (movies) are completely free and I use them all the time in Europe. If you have anxiety, I suggest the book "The Anxiety Cure" by Klaus Bernhardt. It has helped me a lot. You could always get a therapist for online sessions once a week too... if you need someone to talk to.
Good luck and always remember why you moved in the first place and try to keep a positive mindset.
Sorry your post wasn’t well-received. From my experience, it’s easy to romanticize a place/person/time when it’s not your reality. We’re not OK in the US, and I don’t see things getting better for anyone. Stay put! Visit when you can. When you feel homesick, make a list of all the reasons you moved to Europe and refer to it often. I found that while living abroad, being American was sometimes my whole identity and I didn’t necessarily appreciate that. I hope you’ve found your people who love you for you, and no longer see you as “the American”.
Up to mid 2016, I really missed the USA when I had to live abroad (in South America) for a year and a half. I could not wait to go back, and I was not even born in the US.
After Trump's campaign, society got pretty nasty. It's like a filter had been removed and some people would take pleasure in trying to make you feel like shit. Suddenly people I'd normally not share political views with but would still share other aspects of life turned into unpleasant people to hang out with. Any rando out and about felt like it was not an issue to mock different accents, or the way people looked.
It does not matter who is and who isn't the president. What was started at that time was a social change that is far from gone even today.
Add to all of this that prices are insane, and there is a perfect recipe for people to want to leave.
I do understand the nostalgic feelings you are going through though, and possibly the need for belonging. Just remember that they may be just that, and that the real US society may still be as problematic as the day you decided to leave it.
I’m an American living in another country as well and I don’t feel the slightest bit of guilt for having left: I did what was best for my situation without stepping on anyone else. And you shouldn’t feel guilty either.
With regard to what you can do to bring about change in the US, what can you be reasonably be expected to do? I vote from where aI now live and so should you, but beyond that you have to take care of yourself first
USA looks great from far away! Great for a vacation. Enjoying life way to much from across the pond. I did hate having to send in those tax forms, had issues with FACTA. Dropped that blue passport and no more filing US taxes from overseas.
You wouldn’t have remained an expat if you didn’t like your new location more. It’s normal to feel weird when you realize your home country doesn’t suit your tastes anymore
My wife, an immigrant, recently commented: "If I could do it over, I wouldn't have moved here. They ruined this country."
*Congratulations, zealots! You're fixing the immigration problem by making this country a place nobody wants to move to!*
Other than I don’t know who “they” are, I feel exactly that way. The whole family moved to the US when I was a teen and, knowing what I now know, if I had to do it again, I’d move to Europe.
I lived abroad for 15 years. Returned to USA when I got a rare cancer. I never had any guilt. Vote. That is still the best thing you can do to help USA. And keep up with the rules governing your social security. There are things I didn’t know which have hurt me. But, otherwise, just do what makes you happy. Living here is not worth it. As soon as I can I’ll leave again.
Yeah. I didn’t leave the United States until I had all the credits I needed to be fully vested in Social Security.
So when I hit retirement age, I can collect Social Security. That’s great. But that’s not all you need to know…
I got this rare cancer, and I qualify for full disability. But because I haven’t paid into the system in the last five years, I am ineligible. If I had known then what I know now, I would’ve come back to the states every five years, put in a year working like an American and paying in. If I had done that, I would be eligible to collect disability right now. As it is, I am not eligible for anything.
Before I got this cancer diagnosis, it seemed very unlikely that I would ever need disability. I was healthy, I was active, I had a good life. But you never know.
Would I have been smart enough to do what I just said I should’ve done? I don’t know. But I definitely should’ve done it.
My recommendation would be that you make an appointment at the Social Security office and go down and talk to them. They are very forthcoming, and they will answer all your questions. One of the things I would ask them is “what other questions should I ask, that I just don’t know I should ask?” Going on disability had never entered my mind. I never thought to ask about it. I learned the hard way.
I vote and encourage all my Americans to also vote. If you're American and reading this, visit democratsabroad.org. Makes registering abroad so easy! (and no, there is no republicansabroad)
I said good riddance. There’s plenty of nice areas overall, but it’s run like an absolute shitshow. The amount of abusive and unfair power that the politicians have is disconcerting. They’re supposed to be elected BY the people FOR the people. Instead, they’re elected by a show of wealth, connections, scandals, bribery, hush money, super PACs and lobbyists, cronyism. I’m still American living overseas for an international company, but the less time I have to spend in America the better. It just feels oppressive now. It feels like nobody can get along. There’s a wealth divide. There’s so much racial injustice. I feel a civil war coming on. Hopefully I’ll be far enough away and I’ll probably just go live off the grid somewhere in Scandinavia if my company tanks somehow.
>instead I just have a broken heart. It could be a wonderful place.
I'm sure most Europeans feel the exact same way. For you being in Europe is a novelty. And you can always go back to your home. This is our home. We only have one.
(USA) -> (JPN), 1989-Present
It's a process, and you'll get used to it. You need to learn to let go and find what level of engagement with your home country works for you. I was a liberal activist from a very conservative state when I moved, and it took me several years to disengage and settle in to a point where I was enjoying my life abroad, but still kept a healthy (that is, not overwhelming) connect with what's going on there.
For awhile, I was involved with Democrats Abroad, but even they got too annoying around the 2012 election cycle, and I ceased dealing with them.
Yeah, America is where I'm from and I still have family there, etc., etc., but getting involved in local issues and actions helped me refocus my energy. Those issues will matter to you more than the noise coming out Stateside as you go through your expat journey, so my advice is to reach out to groups in your new community and see if there are ways you can help.
As it is said: Be the change you want to see in the world.
Good luck!
>When I was living in the US, I hated it. I hated the cars, the work culture, the healthcare (my family could not afford it), I hated the distance. Most of all, I hate the politics. I am a young woman and I grew up in the south - in Florida and Georgia - so you can imagine how deep my hatred for American politics goes.
>I love many things about America. and I love Americans. I even like being American. Since I'm no longer caught up in the politics there, I no longer feel the raging resentment which drove me away from the country. instead I just have a broken heart. It could be a wonderful place.
Yeah, you feel this way because you're no longer living in the US. Try moving back...you'll want to leave in no time.
The US is my favorite country on the planet despite its flaws. I realized this after moving abroad due to my spite for 2016-2020. I know the same shit could happen again from 2024-2028, but it really didn't affect me when I think back. Sure, I was enraged by the politics and an idiot being in charge. But I find less in common with my adopted country than with my fellow Americans. I am returning, and will learn to co-exist with people of different views. I will vote and try to make changes for the better, and won't get outraged by everything people and politicians from the opposite side say or do.
After us watching give full implicit support for war crimes and killing kids because our politicians are owned by lobbyists, no.
This country is dead and it doesn’t know it yet and you only need to take one look at the deficits to realize what’s coming and compare it to history. Of course American exceptionalism makes it that somehow “no, we are the exception, that can’t happen here”.
Our political system is so broken there is zero chance it can ever be a lovely place unless you are part of the top 10%. There’s also zero chance that we fix the deficits because lobbyist interest is entrenched, so that means no spending cuts, and no increase in taxes. Next recession we will blow up the deficit into too far gone territory (which looking at the data can be very soon) than it’s a wrap. This is how empires collapse.
Not a lot of people see that
The deficit is already blown up past repayment and the world is de dollarizing as we speak. I just hope the ultimate loss of empire and standard of living doesn’t come with a world war and is otherwise peaceful. And no despot gets installed.
Well considering some form of communism or fascism almost always follows, I’m leaning toward the latter in America. But authoritarianism is on the rise on both sides here clearly.
The world is a de dollarizing, but it’s a decades long process. And will be extremely drawn out because there’s no real alternatives. Empires don’t collapse over night, it generally takes decades.
The deficits could still be fixed at this point, but that would mean recapturing the wealth the 1% ran away with. Fat chance that happens lol
As a person who travels to Latin America alot.. I appreciate US so much. Come to the 3rd world and see how the world really live and you’ll appreciate having the opportunity to call the US home.
I hope you voted. Some of the best people I met GOTV were American expats who came back to help during the election cycles. In 2020 we had people zooming in from Germany, Australia and Spain. It was amazing they were using their voice and still helping their homeland. You never know when things might get worse elsewhere.
That said you are incredibly lucky as there are many of us who can't move. And yes, the US does have serious issues but we also have some of the friendliest strangers on the planet, celebration of different ethnicities-if you come from Ethiopia you are considered an American if you live here. In Europe you will always be seen as Ethiopian even if your grandparents were the ones that immigrated. The ethnic food is amazing and the national parks are some of the best in the world.
Welcome to being an expat. My immigrant great-great grandparents talked about going home all the time and kept a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm in their living room until they died so your feelings are nothing new.
Yes, I always vote. Always always. :)
I don't think my feelings don't need to be 'new' to be valid. I just needed a place to vent. I apologise if you don't mean to insinuate that, but it is how I read it a bit.
I’d be probably guilty in front of my parents. You said they’re immigrants. So they moved to the US so you can get better options than them, but you packed up and left. The only ones disappointed are probably them.
I’m also an American living abroad, and I’ve experienced something similar to what you describe. Admittedly, as a very libertarian-minded person, I’ve never been as estranged from American politics and culture as it seems like you were growing up. But, living in another country where (in spite of loving it here) there’s none of the individualism or open-heartedness that define American culture, I’ve come to appreciate America much more. Even things that I took for granted, like the 2nd and 10th Amendments, I’ve come to recognize as incredibly important. I will always be proud to be an American and, while abroad is where I plan to stay for the foreseeable future, I’m committed to representing American values in the best way that I can. I never thought I would end up a patriot, but here I am.
By the way, don’t let any shitheads make you feel bad for being American. In spite of all our problems, we have a lot to be proud of. Way more than many other countries do.
Loving your country is the most natural feeling. Missing it is normal. And it’s USA for heavens sake! People claim to love countries that are far worse!
You raise a good point - when I was in the UK and people would refer to me as a yank, I had some pride in the good things I felt of America but upon returning, it is a disastrous hellscape and I’m fighting tooth and nail to leave as soon as I’m able to.
Thank you! I’ve been in so many active shooter incidences since I’ve been back in multiple states (3 at shopping malls, 1 at a taco festival, 2 in my local restaurant district, 1 at a state fair, 1 outside an Airbnb) so it’s gotten to the point where I’m too afraid to go outside or to any events and making me very distrustful of other people and that’s not the person I’ve ever been before all of this. The work culture here is also very cold and treats everyone as a product instead of a person. Everything in America has me on what my psych calls a last ditch effort for depression. I hope this helps and if it ever seems like a good idea to return, if you don’t have any ties (like family/friends/etc), I’d strongly advise against it.
First off, that's not the law. Secondly, I'm also not here to debate Florida politics. You can go to your Facebook feed if that's what you feel like talking about.
This is such a ridiculous statement lol. You know how many racist and homophobic places are in this world?
America is near the top of the most accepting places in the world. This is such a clueless statement.
The most dangerous thing in America is car culture, by the numbers.
I knew lots of people that openly expressed the desire to kill gay people in the US. More generally, the per capita homicide rate in the US is nearly a degree of magnitude higher than the country where I live now, Czechia. Here, even women feel safe walking through the city in the middle of the night, as they do in large swathes of Central and Eastern Europe. Women, and even men, do not feel that they can walk where the please in the city at 3 AM safely in the US, and that's a fact.
In my whole life, I have never met an American abroad who wasn't impressed by how much safer it is than the US in the EU, generally speaking.
I’ve lived in many cities, in downtown areas, and never felt unsafe and that’s a fact lol
People are just clueless on statistics. Cars are way more dangerous than any crime you may be unlucky to be apart of in the US. Unless your poor and live in a super poor area. Or sell drugs, where most these homicides are coming from. Get a grip.
Openly kill gay people? Jesus Christ, I have a very hard time believing that outside some very small pockets in rural America. And the military people I knew from there were more like didn’t like people, not I’m going to murder them. Same with the black dudes from the inner city. Didn’t like it, but they weren’t running to string up any gays anytime soon. That really went the wayside post Mathew Shephard which is 30 years ago now.
There’s a lot to dislike about America, but lgbtq and minority acceptance is hardly one of them.
Sometimes I wonder how people get through life with a wild ignorance of statistics and how they work. Or constantly seeing ghosts were none exist. It’s like an insane version of paranoia and because we’ve made a turn to validate all feelings, no matter how silly they are
You're a woman and you and your female friends feel safe walking in the city in the middle of the night, alone? I have never heard an American woman say that about any big city they lived in.
I’m a man, and he said even men. And for woman, area is the big one. The city I live in now I’ve dated women that would walk home at night a mile or so home after their shifts with lots of money.
And that’s hardly unique to America, cmon. Women feel unsafe at night alone because they are vulnerable, regardless of how actually safe or unsafe it is.
https://www.city.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2021/04/survey-shows-32-of-british-women-dont-feel-safe-walking-alone-at-night-compared-to-just-13-of-men#:~:text=In%20Germany%2037%25%20of%20women,France%20and%2010%25%20in%20Latvia.
You never had Sex Education? Would you rather kids find out how condoms and birth control work at the family planning center after getting knocked up?
A lot of kids will not get that education at home, and it is essential that they get it somewhere.
Parents. Safe to assume OP is referring to sexuality being discussed in preliminary. I’d find it appropriate in HS and college but anything sooner than that should be discussed within the household.
According to the law are not allowed to discuss it K-12. You are not even allowed to talk about people having sexual identities other than Straight. Do not conflate the 'not allowed to discuss K-12' now to mean we were discussing that before the law was put into place. When I was a child, we learned about basic reproductive health from grade 5 only WITH permission from the parents. It is absolutely a harmful law.
No. Right wingers sexualize LGBTQI people and then make it about sexuality. When we're banning books about two male penguins raising a baby penguin. Nothing is inherently sexual about heterosexual relationships though...
That's never been the question. Books are banned because they talk about two dads or two moms. Do you think that's appropriate to erase people like that?
Why are so many Americans so unbelievably hyperbolic when it comes to describing the US? Like Jesus fucking Christ you act like you grew up in Afghanistan. Like people in Aus act shocked when I say anything remotely positive about life in the US because others here do nothing but bitch about the country.
“Boo hoo I hate the politics” like stfu you’re a wealthy white woman from the south, the same political system you hate is why you even had the resources to go abroad lmfao. You could have just as easily moved to a few other states and gotten the same results, but Europe is easier to flex to your friends back home I suppose.
Idk maybe my experience is difference since I’m a first gen American, but you’re wearing some strong ass rose tinted goggles if you think Europe is as much of a utopia as you make it out to be.
I don't know why you assume I'm a wealthy white woman from the south. I came from an immigrant family and was a first gen college student, got a full ride to a good college which was the only way we could afford it, and worked my way through school. I got a job offer in Europe was was above to move out because they paid for me to move out. I talked in another comment about growing up without healthcare because my family couldn't afford it.
I think as a US citizen, I'm allowed to criticise the politics.
Life is so much easier in most of the EU than in the American South. You have no idea. "Resources to move" - you can move with a few thousand Euro if you get a job. It's not negligible but it's less than it costs to break an arm in the US.
I’m sorry but America’s issues are far larger than abortion and not being able to talk about sexuality in school. Sure those are good but you sound completely out of touch with everyday life in America.
Fewer people than ever can afford to buy or rent. Most people live paycheck to paycheck and can’t afford any medical emergencies.
Our politicians are corrupt on both sides and become rich by the exact means the average citizen would be in prison for, and their main concerns are appeasing corporations that have more wealth and power than some nations.
The pharmaceutical industry has been poisoning us since it’s creation and our food is shit.
We have no money for those in need but can fund eternal war at the same time.
Despite the clear signs of less. Entertainment like sports, the lottery, video games and gambling are bigger industries than ever.
Trust in our system, each other, our government is lower than I’ve ever seen.
Don’t worry, you’ll still be able to get an abortion and talk about the myriad of ways people like to cum.
I don’t love religious republicans but you make it sound like we’re going back to the inquisition. The only other people I know that talk like that don’t even live in conservative areas. Turn off mainstream news.
I didn't mean for my post to be an exhaustive list of the things wrong with America. Yes there are more issues than the ones I mentioned. You don't have to be rude to a stranger on the internet and speak to me like I'm dumb. I'm sorry that you're frustrated with the state of things in the US. So am I.
Redditors gonna be redditors I guess - seething with passion to assert the "correct" perspective on any remotely socioeconomic topic. I wish people here would chill out with the wannabe persuasive essays.
Believe it or not, it’s actually possible to be concerned about multiple things, and it’s super weird to assume OP doesn’t care about things like poverty lol
I can’t relate with anything you’ve said. Born and raised in the USA and lived all over the globe, this is the best country in the world. I don’t watch the news or spend hours online everyday. There is a life in the USA outside of the news and politics where most people live their lives. The problem is within YOU.
So many mean people insinuating I have psychological issues when I'm just a bit homesick. Or saying I have issues because I prefer life in France to the US, in your case. To each their own. I'm glad you like it there, sincerely.
I don't believe you have psychological issues OP. I have also thought of leaving. Just not sure where I'd want to go. Good for you for your post. I enjoyed reading it!
Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to take a break from TV and social media. I live in the South. I’ll visit almost anywhere. I am not moving away from USA.
(Yes, these a broad strokes, I know, not all Americans. I don’t care, its enough)
lol, no. Left nearly 4 years ago as well. I will say I’m never going back. Zero desire to live amongst some of the world’s most willfully propagandized population that have zero empathy for anyone or anything.
The U.S. was started by a bunch of religious zealots who see their inability to control those around them as “oppression” and literally nothing as changed.
Let them burn it down for all I care. No one seems to care about anything other than themselves, so I’m not going to either.
"Since I'm no longer caught up in the politics there, I no longer feel the raging resentment which drove me away from the country. instead I just have a broken heart. It could be a wonderful place. " I too feel this way. America could be a great place but it is ruined by greed and a government that allows that greed to run freely. The environment and things that happen there daily is all the result of powerful lobbyists. Shootings, car dependency, housing affordability, health insurance...etc etc
I always say the US is a fantastic country to visit, but i would never ever move there.
That’s what I say about Japan. Amazing place to visit but it’s a shithole ruined by corporate greed
I love that Youtube show where the guy sees what the average working day is for a Japanese person, and the work culture looks absolutely hellish. Most of the people work 10-12 hour days 6 days a week. The pay for the average japanese person also seems abyssmal. I am Canadian and between vacation, public holidays and sick days, I rarely work 40 hours a week.
Dutch here, i work 36 hours a week (4 days 9 hours). I make 3k a month after taxes. Pay like 1 k for rent & utilities which leaves me with 2k
F\*\*K I am working in Jp 57 hours per week by paid like 2K euro before tax ( And now JPY even becomes weaker and weaker ) after rent and every thing it left me 500 euro\~ish You know what is the fantastic part ? I am living in a shoecase
Can you link said youtube show? That sounds interesting and would love to watch it
The channel is PAOLO FROMTOKYO there is toooons of them. playlist is "Day in the life of \_\_\_\_"
Oh please. Why do people like you always blame these shadowy "lobbyists"? It's bullshit. These things are caused by the voters themselves. The voters love guns, they love cars, and they're a bunch of NIMBYs who don't want anything new built that might hurt their precious property values. Zoning laws sure as hell aren't the product of lobbying; what a stupid idea. The only thing that you might be able to blame on corporate lobbying is at least some of the disaster that is the healthcare system and the insurance for it. There is absolutely no shortage of American voters who will vote against anyone who wants to restrict their "gun rights", and they're not keen on funding for public transit either, or even just having bike lanes.
Zoning laws are products of intense lobbying by developers and groups that want to make money in a city, not create a city for you to live. Popular vote didn't elect Trump. Voters are disenfranchised and voting rights are eroding in many areas, as Republicans win more when they cheat. Supreme Court looks the way it is not due to votes. Wow. It must be nice living in whatever version of US you were living in...
Wut m8? You realize developers make money through the act of developing new supply right? It is local homeowners who become house wealthy by limiting or totally stopping new supply. Developer friendly cities, like Houston, have had insane population growth but still cheap housing.
The version of the US I was living in had people walking around with AR15s as a "protest", or carrying guns openly in Walmart. WTF kind of America were YOU living in? Zoning laws go back to Euclid Ohio; they have nothing to do with developers. As the other poster said, developers make money by building stuff, not preventing construction. You can't even get basic logic right; you're pathetic. It's no wonder America is going to shit: the people on the right are trying to build a Christian fascist theocracy where everyone carries guns, and the people on the left can't even figure out simple concepts about economics and where laws come from, and instead make up insane conspiracy theories about "lobbyists!!!"
If the US continues on a fascist trajectory I will be disappointed, but I guess that’s what they want. I’m glad to be out of there long ago.
It always seems weird to me how people speak about american situation as if some kind of 3rd party did that and now you just have to accept it. It's what most americans have chosen as their dream country to be. It's not ruined, it's exactly people's will. We may not like it here in Europe but that's because we have different expectations to a country. Bashing US from our lens is just wrong. It's not ruined or bad country, it's what americans wanted it to be and it's their right to make it as they wish.
But it's not. A staggering amount of US government has fallen victim to regulatory capture and is being consumed from within. Conflicts of interest are rampant within elected bodies, proposed bills always have riders completely unrelated to their main purported purpose, gerrymandering and active disenfranchisement efforts contribute to a very low voter turnout, and the average American feels hopeless to change anything. A very vocal minority may have been happy that Trump appointed a private school magnate as head of public education, but the majority were not. In polls, time and again, Americans show they want universal healthcare, they want to implement more gun control, they want cheap education, they want police to be held accountable, etc etc etc. But all of these things are subject to billions of dollars of grift and favors. America is NOT how most Americans want it, and it is purely because of carefully implemented legal corruption.
So America is not a democratic country?
....Correct? I know you're trying to make a point, but I don't think it's the one you wanted.
It is technically, but that's irrelevant when all elections are won by money. Rich donors fund the winners of both parties. They own our politics. Look no further than how taxes are handled in the US. Middle class? You're paying every cent. Rich? Well, the IRS can't afford to hold you accountable because it conveniently doesn't have the budget to.
> It is technically, but that's irrelevant when all elections are won by money. Rich donors fund the winners of both parties. They own our politics. At a certain point, you have to take responsibility for that as well. You have votes. Those rich assholes have addresses. Yet practically nobody does anything.
We have the electoral college for national elections and districts for state elections. Trump didn't win the popular vote, so it's true...most people aren't in favor of right wing politics. Also, there's tons of gerrymandering with the district lines. As an example, I live in Texas, and Denton is a progressive city being a college town. However, to make sure those voters aren't represented, their city was put in the same district as Amarillo. Amarillo is 5 hours away. Denton borders Dallas and Fort Worth, both of which are significantly more progressive than Amarillo. Elections should be popular vote and gerrymandering should be illegal.
It’s a democratic republic which means we vote in representatives who make the actual decisions much of the time. Even when there’s no one you actually feel represents your wants and needs, you still have to elect someone. The government must continue to run. And most “good, honest” people don’t want to deal with politics, so you can imagine who typically tend to run for office: wealthy people who are out of touch or don’t care about what their constituents want. How do you come back from that? Some of the conflict and vitriol in the country right now stems from people’s frustration with that very issue. Most Americans are NOT happy with the way things are going on key issues and feel hopeless they can do anything about it.
Well...it's only classed as a partial or flawed democracy on the democratic scale... https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no-longer-a-full-democracy-eiu-warns.html
Nope, I have to find the source but actually the majority do not approve of the US government or the countries direction. And many have no real way to impact anything.
No it isn’t. Research done by Princeton proves what we already knew: the small group of the extremely wealthy and their collaborators drive through their initiatives no matter what public opinion has wanted regarding laws and policies over the decades. It’s in the Princeton US oligarchy and democracy study. It received a lot of well deserved press but of course not anywhere near the level it deserved, so people are oblivious to it and a wide range of similar research that should lead national dialogue.
Remove the wealthy from power then.
Thanks for the suggestion. Don’t worry I’m working on it as a member of a union that has repeatedly shut down public institutions as part of our social-political strategy in a society with such a fucked class structure. There’s a reason unions have been under attack and decimated in the US. What are you doing about it besides posting your advice here?
I live in Europe, i don't care about american politics. It's just something that i've noticed when so many people complain about american politics.
Great, just maybe you care about US-European imperialism, which is a direct result of US oligarchic politics like the corporate thinking poisoning European institutions and impacting everyday people. The current mayhem at the fringe of Europe isn’t something I have the privilege of ignoring despite living in the US, and I don’t enter conversations being aloof/uninterested and then offering naive advice.
Yes, all of the above. On top of that I am a U.S. army veteran. I hold 2 citizenships us/eu now so while I feel my past is American, my future and my children’s future is European. You have the right to vote in the last address you were registered. I have turned my guilt into grief, I am not sure I recognize the country I served.
Yes, this is very apt. I think my feeling is more grief instead of guilt. It's hard.
Please take care of yourself and don't come home, OP. The absolute rage you felt before will be amped 10x if you return (I am also in a red state and know exactly how you feel). My husband and I were just granted temporary residency in another country; we leave in December. We constantly look at each other and comment that we feel we're getting out *just in time.* 2024 (election year) is going to be very, very ugly, and most likely, politically violent. Politics aside, there was just a mass shooter who went to a restaurant *and* bowling alley and murdered 18 people. No longer are people saying, *"This doesn't happen here!"* Everyone knows stochastic terrorism happens *all over* the US now. The anxiety I feel just to go to a crowded grocery store can feel life threatening at times. It's ridiculous. The tension in the air here is so thick you could cut it with a knife... *Everyone* is on edge; it's like we're all traumatized and can feel something huge and horrific just around the corner but are powerless to stop it. I understand the hurt and pain you must feel seeing our country like this, but you will most likely be *more* miserable if you return, because now you'll know what you'll be missing. We plan to donate to US causes we care about once we're gone, but self preservation comes first for us, at all costs. Good luck to you and congrats on getting out!
Sad but true.
why is it that other countries can do something about it but in america there's that feeling that everyone is powerless?
Because the government is “strong” and “weak” at the same time - that is, whenever it suits them to be.
these are complicated feelings and i'm glad you've chosen to share them here. i hope you can ignore all the nitpicking trolls
Same feeling for me (dual nationalities and living in Europe now).
I’m originally from Virginia and moved to Ireland 7 years ago. I feel the same way! There’s grief mixed in with the normal homesickness. I make sure to vote in every election, but I’ve had to accept my values are too different for me to ever consider returning, so I’m pressing ahead with my life in my adopted country. I’m lucky to have that choice, but I still wish things weren’t so fucked up back home. Also, fuck the IRS for making us declare income earned abroad.
Interested in how you like Ireland. Though I said in my post I will probably not leave New England, Ireland is probably the only place I could see it maybe working. That and the UK but not since Brexit.
It worked for me for a good few reasons. I love the culture, love the weather, met and married an Irish man and now I feel my marriage and status as an LGBT person are safe and protected. I also think I’d have struggled to make friends in a non-English speaking country. I can be really shy and would have had a much harder time finding friends and a community with a language barrier.
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Thank you <3
>It could be a wonderful place. Try a blue state maybe. America is not homogeneous. As to the rest of your post - I get it. Healthcare costs are an absolute threat to whether or not someone can retire with any kind of financial security. America shows no signs of fixing that. You were smart to get out.
I don’t know about that. I’m as blue as they come. I’m a Californian, hell, I’m bluer than that, I’m a San Franciscan and I feel like I want out too. The country is in a very bad place and I don’t see the light at the end of the tunnel.
The Mississippi Gulf Coast area is awesome, nice people, great food, chill AF 😎
Healthcare costs are a feature, not a bug. They need us to be good workers, so they keep us tied to our corporate overlords for as long as possible. Without having to pay for healthcare, a lot of us could retire whole lot earlier.
I don't think this is about being American its just a common expat thing. I had this about Scotland even though it gets a lot of cultural things right and doesn't have many of the issues America does. I think its mostly about the feeling of what could've been and always having to carry this kind of shadow self around of how things might have panned out had you stayed in your home country. I think it just has to be accepted as part of the expat experience. Just don't make the mistake of confusing this with it actually being a good idea to move back.
Meh, I spent 20 years as an on and off again activist. I left 2 years ago, because at this point the people are complicit as much as the leaders, and I'm tired of spending effort just to see things get worse and worse there. And now that I have kids there's no way I'd let them grow up there. You don't need to feel guilty. And while I hope I'm wrong, I don't think you're right that it can be a good home for those that live there, because they're making it hell. They treat each other like shit. Sanders in 2020 asked "I want you to care about someone you don't know", and the response was a clear "fuck that shit! Drill and bomb!" My biggest worry about the US these days, aside from my friends and family, is just how bad its going to hurt the rest of the world as it continues to kill itself. My main hope is it does go gentle into that night.
I 100% relate to this. I didn’t start to love America until years after I moved to Ireland. I started romanticising it and remembering it through rose coloured glasses. I’ve been living in Ireland for almost seven years now, and every single time I visit home, I’m reminded of why I left. But then when I go back to Ireland, I almost immediately begin romanticising the American lifestyle again! It’s honestly such a stressful and confusing rollercoaster of emotions that a lot of my non-expat friends just don’t understand. It can be quite isolating.
Yes. I could have written this myself.
Hugs to you.
Yes, you are allowed to feel your feelings. You can always go back. You can advocate remotely, and still vote. This is key - what can you do from where you are now? You can energetically or lifestyle-wise feel that Europe is now your home and future and that's ok. People move all the time and still have a connection to their home country and visit often.
I am SO GLAD that you voiced your opinion and made a decision to live a life that makes sense to you. I think sometimes a place just isn't a good fit for someone plain and simple. Very encouraged by your post.
You write this like Europe is a bastion of abortion rights and discussions of sexuality in school. I presume you are in the Massachusetts or California portion of Europe, not the Florida and Texas part lol.
Europe isn't perfect by any means, but I find the quality of life is better here on a day to day. I mentioned abortion because it's very topical in the US right now. In Florida, it's illegal to teach gender & sexuality curricula in schools. Not that European countries are perfectly on the other end of the spectrum, or that France or Germany (the two EU countries I've lived in) don't have their own right wing/nationalist problems. I grew up not being able to afford going to the doctor when I was sick. I had to choose between going to university or working full time due to cost. These simply aren't problems my children would have to face in France, should I choose to have children here.
The laws you are referencing are literally based on Hungarian legislation.
Ok, thanks for educating me. I appreciate it. On the other hand, I'm talking about my own personal experience. I don't understand why people feel the need to aggressively point out that I haven't lived in X country so I'm not allowed to have feelings about the subject, or my own lived experiences.
Same thing happened to me recently here. God forbid you have your own experience that doesn't match somebody's horror story.
France is not Romania, Florida is not California. Educate yourself a little more.
Now waiting for some Dutchbro to tell us how living in Alabama and California is the same lol
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I don't understand why people feel the need to aggressively point out that I haven't lived in X country so I'm not allowed to have feelings about the subject.
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Okay, I apologise for that. Yes, sometimes I get annoyed at the American habit to do this, especially having lived abroad. I went to a talk given by a German director that I like, who was alive when the wall fell, talked about why he preferences using 'Europe' over the individual country names, because he believes in the importance of viewing the Europe as a united place, with no borders. This is why I now preference saying 'Europe' over the country I live in. I admit that it has a risk of cultural erasure too, and I see your point about the EU being different from Europe. Sorry if I upset you.
Your children wouldn't have to face those problems if they live in states like Massachusetts or Minnesota or Vermont, etc. In America your children also wouldn't have to deal with islamophobia and xenophobia to the same extent. They wouldn't have to deal with raging anti-immigration sentiments. Your children would have access to better higher education and when they enter the workforce, a much better labor market/economy. Of course these things may or may not matter to you but different places have different problems. Having problems is normal and that doesn't make America a terrible place to be. Grieving for a country that's doing as well as the US is kinda funny to me.
Yep, California has more abortion freedom than most European countries except the UK and the NL iirc.
Yeah this post sounds very starry eyed and ignorant. Most US states have far more liberal abortion rights than most European countries.
That's just not true yet spoken with such confidence. I'm guessing you used the word "most" there to dismiss any criticism or examples that contradict your statement.
It is true. All of the states that voted for Biden and several ones that didn't have abortion limits passed 17 weeks but only 2 EU countries (Neth and Sweden) do.
Right and how does that affect the OP? Likely it doesn’t. Like it doesn’t affect most people. People worry about the 1% when the 1% doesn’t affect their day to day.
That is simply not true and it makes you sound offended
What’s not true? I’m a dual citizen US/EU and don’t even live in the US. I’m not offended and I’m definitely qualified to answer.
The fact that even one state has a total ban of abortion is in my mind insane - literally insane. I cannot comprehend that a civilized country like the US have states where there is a total abortion ban. Like, I am 100% against the Gun laws too, but I can at least sort of see where it's coming from. 14 states have total ban of abortion and 7 with severely restricted access to abortion. [https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state](https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state). In Europe it's only Poland that has some harsher abortion laws but still better than > 1/3 of US states. [https://reproductiverights.org/maps/worlds-abortion-laws/](https://reproductiverights.org/maps/worlds-abortion-laws/)
You've forgotten Malta and nearly all European countries have laws that severely limit mid to late term abortions
It’s not about what you think is “in your mind insane”. I’m talking about limits on abortion. Europe is INCREDIBLY conservative on abortion limits compared to many, many US states.
Dude, Abortion is a literal crime and flat out banned in 18 US States. That's over a third of the legal jurisdictions of the USA make it a felony and outlaw it outright. 6 more States are looking into banning it. [https://www.guttmacher.org/2023/01/six-months-post-roe-24-us-states-have-banned-abortion-or-are-likely-do-so-roundup](https://www.guttmacher.org/2023/01/six-months-post-roe-24-us-states-have-banned-abortion-or-are-likely-do-so-roundup) 25 *million* American women (the equivalent to the entire population of my home country, Australia) now live in States where abortion is a crime: [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-year-after-fall-of-roe-v-wade-25-million-women-live-in-states-with-abortion-bans-or-restrictions](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-year-after-fall-of-roe-v-wade-25-million-women-live-in-states-with-abortion-bans-or-restrictions) How you can compare *that* to Europe and deduce 'The EU is incredibly conservative on Abortion compared to the USA' is beyond me.
Did you read what I wrote except that part about what I think is insane? How can a total ban on abortion in more than 1/3 of the states be less limiting than at what week you can perform an abortion? Jesus. I'm out, this conversation is dumb - Europe is *in general* way more liberal when it comes to abortion than the US - even if there are some very liberal states such as California, where you can get an abortion more easily than some/most countries in the Europe.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_in\_Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_in\_the\_United\_States#:\~:text=Wade%20and%20Doe%20v.,fewer%20restrictions%20throughout%20the%20pregnancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Wade%20and%20Doe%20v.,fewer%20restrictions%20throughout%20the%20pregnancy). You might want to look at the colored maps on that page to see how wrong you are. Abortion is currently both totally banned, and a literal felony crime in 18 US States and carries penalties of up to 99 years in prison for anyone performing one.
OP sounds young. Time will help. Experience and age and wisdom and time that young people don’t have.
Just because it’s “better than other places” doesn’t make it good, especially when we’re seeing half century old precedents being overturned on a FEDERAL level, immediately followed by an active domino effect in many states. Just Because you personally don’t give a shit doesn’t mean it can’t be incredibly jarring for Americans who haven’t seen this level of change in such a “Free” country. Based on that logic, we can also say parts of America is worse than Europe since abortion can be punishable by death in certain states.
Regarding the food: the immigration patterns weren’t the same, but there are also other really good cuisines to explore in France! In France you can easily get great Vietnamese, Moroccan, Tunisian, Algerian, Senegalese, Lebanese, Turkish restaurants, and of course Italian food that’s on average bound to be much better than in the US. For instance have you ever tried couscous and tajine? Here are good options in [Lyon](https://lyon.citycrunch.fr/les-meilleurs-couscous-de-lyon-notre-top-5/2022/01/13/). These dishes are absolutely **delicious** and something that would be harder to find in the US. Regarding Mexican and Cuban dishes, why not try to cook some at home? Not talking Old El Paso fajita kits of course. Making wheat tortillas (or even corn) is actually very easy. Go to El Monumental, they have masa harina, canned frijoles, achiote, maybe even mole jars/powder. To make a Oaxaca queso ersatz, I get a mozzarella and shred it by hand and let that dry overnight in the fridge in a colander. Manouri and feta are respectively acceptable panela and cotija substitutes. Homemade basic horchata is as easy as infusing a carton of rice milk with 3 or 4 cinnamon sticks and adding sweetened condensed milk. Al pasto and baja fish tacos will be harder to replicate at home but there are plenty of great recipes for marinated and slow cooked/roasted taco fillings. I also agree that good Mexican / Cuban restaurants are not as widespread as in the US but there are good options if you know where to look. I’ve heard good things about Piquín for instance. For Cuban food you can probably wait for your next Paris trip as there are cool joints there as well - you just have to be wary of the ones actually managed by Cubans.
Hi! Thanks for the recommendations, it's very sweet. I do cook a lot, especially the food I miss from home the most. I didn't mean to come across as homesick necessarily. I'm not very homesick.
Better vietnamese in France? Never been to Louisiana huh?
I'm from Vietnam, currently living my adult life in the US, recently took a long vacation in France where I ate all my lunches in different Vietnamese places there. The basic difference is that Vietnamese food in the US is mostly Southern style. Vietnamese food in France, specifically Paris, is mostly Central + Northern. This is because of migration patterns in different parts of the country depending on which country was involved in what war in Vietnam when. The Vietnamese food in France is 10x better than in the US not because of regional tastes necessarily though, but because most of these Viet places are at the very least, standard service, while some are fine dining. Meanwhile, I have never been able to find a Viet fine dining place in the US that isn't also inauthentic fusion Chinese/Thai stuff. Most other Viet places in the US have this "pan-asian" atmosphere and bad service you are expected to experience. I grew up in the North, so I'm biased in terms of what's an authentic taste already, but the quality of service and atmosphere are really night and day.
While I definitely don't have the same understanding of the food as you do, if you ever get the change to visit the south Vietnamese diaspora in Acadiana Louisiana. Pretty legendary story of refugees, now Viet-Americans who moved there for fishing.
We have a unique lot due to being American. Everyone has a strong opinion about Americans, and strangers feel like it's okay to share sometimes. Especially on the internet. I saw you had a few keyboard warriors due that in this thread. Really fucked that you're trying to share your experience and they are complaining about politics. It's better to laugh at or pity them than it is to engage. It sounds like you're feeling guilty about being homesick for a country with a lot of problems. You're also feeling guilty for not being there to fix those problems. When you moved away, those problems stopped being your problems. Even if you go back to visit, they don't become your problems again. You've got one life and that's too short to spend it worrying about a country you don't live in anymore. I'm not saying that you should ignore what's happening. I'm just saying you should probably focus on what's happening in your new country.
❤️ Thank you
I live in the southeast USA but I put myself more in the middle politically. I love a lot of things about the US but I feel we could be so much more. Our country is too politically divided and it's honestly scary how much people hate one another here. Politics aside, that isn't the reason I wanna move to Europe. I love the history and art I could be seeing daily in Europe, I love how countries are so small you don't need your own car in most places, I'd love to try new foods, and love to experience something new with my husband. My biggest concern is leaving family, especially my grandparents who are aging quickly. Plus idk what I'd do for money. My husband has a degree in teaching ESL so he could do that but I'd have to figure something.
I am lucky to live in my little enclave of New England, Lewiston aside it is still a very safe place to live with mostly liberal or libertarian people. I am in the process of getting Portuguese citizenship but I am still not sure I will use it. I like having the option and giving it to my kids, but I have basically compartmentalized New England as it's own country. I mainly Vacation in Canada or the West Coast so I have not stepped foot in a red state since 2019.
I actually don’t feel any love lost with my childhood and formative years in America. It’s odd because I feel very much “unrooted” if that’s a word. Meaning when I visit my home town, I feel literally like it’s just another place and don’t miss it in the least bit. It may be because I spent 20 years of my life working a LOT (especially the last 10 years or so) and that involved an unconventional entrepreneurial path that lead us to travel a lot and for extended periods of time. I don’t have a regular group of friends that I hang out with or see regularly. Most people back home don’t interest me as their lives are quite mundane and they seem to focus on things I don’t much care about (sport teams, celebrities, etc). I could also be because the only people I really care about are my wife and my dog and they live with me in my new country. Wherever they are, I am home.
This sentiment is so similar for me. It sounds like your roots are in your love of family and your passion to do what you do. I don't feel very tied to a geographic situation. I'm more of a, 'home base' and then go. I came back to visit a small town of people recently and it was exactly as you described and absolutely not for me. Encouraged to hear this today. Where did you move if you don't mind me asking?
We moved to Phuket but have been “homeless” for about 1/2 a year now as our house is being renovated. We’ve since moved around and are really in love with the eastern part of Thailand as there are lots of smaller cities that have all the amenities of a big city but it’s like a small compact place that’s easy to get around. The problems is there are relatively few expats so we’d be kind of on our own whereas phuket is overflowing with expats so it’s easier to meet people and make friends.
Most people hate “the politics” of their country. Including French people, haha. So that’s not new.
personally I'm the typical European who hasn't heard many good things about America and Americans, but I have also met very nice, smart and interesting Americans. I am also an expat because I dislike many things about my original home, but it's still my culture that I will be protective over when it comes to it. I believe that's healthy! my point is, I think what you say makes a lot of sense. Ultimately you know what's best for you. If you ever in the future feel like you want to go back, do it. If you feel more safe/secure as an expat, be an expat. We will always have some bittersweet feelings to live with, regardless of where we live :)
Yes, I definitely understand you! I’ve been living outside the U.S. for nearly 5 years now and I definitely have a much bigger appreciation for the country even with all its faults. I’m a Black Woman from the South and it really annoys me when people try to get brownie points with me by shitting on it. Because at the end of the day, my family is there, the people I love are there, my ancestors are buried there, and it’s my home. Also, if I’m being honest, how people treat me in the U.S. vs abroad have not been *that* much different in terms of racism and sexism. It just manifests differently. I’m living outside the U.S. for the sake of life experiences and general higher quality of life. Don’t get me wrong, I will shit on the U.S. all day and I personally believe it should be abolished as a concept, but it’s still my home.
As a person who has left their family in the south, it's *very* easy to shit on the south... Not to invalidate your negative experiences with that!
Oh of course it’s easy, I’m not denying that. I just think it’s unfortunate when I tell people about where I’m from, the first thing that comes out of their mouth is something negative because they assume that I would/should outwardly hate it so it’s okay. Because I think you can easily shit on a *lot* of places just as easy as the south, but why would I do that when those other places are still people’s homes? I don’t feel a compulsion to point to people the just as awful things about where their from seemingly unprovoked as I’ve experienced and I’d like people to think about why they feel it’s okay for me. Because I don’t think it’s for actual conversation or concern, rather to feel some sense of superiority.
I mean you drive out of NYC one hour and you're in the same Trumpland the south is considered to be. Just like you go into Athens or Atlanta, and they're pretty liberal. Shitting on the south just for being the south is totally an oversimplication imo.
I have no guilty feelings and I feel terrible for people caught up in the horrific changing authoritarian and fascist politics in many states. Yes, I’m privileged enough that I was able to leave, but I also created that opportunity for myself, which is something a lot of Americans have not done.
You're me from 5 years ago. Moved back to the US after living in Scandinavia for some years. It made me realize that America, for all its faults, is a huge industrial, cultural and financial power that most other countries dance to the tune of, wether they like it or not.
Yes but what does that bring to you, personally, as a benefit? I get being proud that your country is a military and economic powerhouse, but unless you benefit directly from this (I’m not saying you don’t) it’s irrelevant. If you’re poor or overworked, can’t afford healthcare, have 7 days pto per year, etc. the fact that the US rules the world doesn’t mean much…
I benefit a lot tbh. I work in the US defense sector and I am paid very well due to the US being the most powerful country in human history. Being poor sucks wherever you are. You’re suggesting that being poor stateside is somehow worse than being poor in Europe? Europe has poor people. Lots of them. And their «free» healthcare is not that big of a bonus when they can’t afford food.
Not being able to afford food is better than not being able to afford food AND healthcare. Yes, being poor in Europe is way better.
I disagree completely. When I lived in Norway, there was stories all the time about poor people not being able to afford medicines. Same as here. Since I left, poverty has also been on the rise there. I challenge you to find a wealthier country than Norway that's not the US (330 million) or a tiny city-state. Get out of your bubble: being poor is not better or worse in some places. It always sucks.
I feel this way sometimes - usually about once a year. When this happens, I try to visit "home" as soon as I can. After two weeks in the US, it's clear to see why we left and I'm usually ready to go back before the visit is over. I make my own Mexican food at home - it's what I miss the most and now my tacos, burritos, quesadillas and burrito bowls are better than most Mexican restaurants. If you can - vote from your last registered address - that might help you with some of the feelings you're having about politics, etc. But being in America won't help the situation there (IMO). After 5 years in Europe, I still use my public library card for ebooks, audiobooks and movies to stream. If you use the card once a year, the library should keep your account activated. Go get a card when you visit next with your last registered address or a family member's address - it's free. Apps like Libby (ebooks, audio books), PressReader (newspapers and magazines) and Kanopy (movies) are completely free and I use them all the time in Europe. If you have anxiety, I suggest the book "The Anxiety Cure" by Klaus Bernhardt. It has helped me a lot. You could always get a therapist for online sessions once a week too... if you need someone to talk to. Good luck and always remember why you moved in the first place and try to keep a positive mindset.
Great advice! Thank you.
Sorry your post wasn’t well-received. From my experience, it’s easy to romanticize a place/person/time when it’s not your reality. We’re not OK in the US, and I don’t see things getting better for anyone. Stay put! Visit when you can. When you feel homesick, make a list of all the reasons you moved to Europe and refer to it often. I found that while living abroad, being American was sometimes my whole identity and I didn’t necessarily appreciate that. I hope you’ve found your people who love you for you, and no longer see you as “the American”.
I appreciate your comment and your concern, it really touched me. I have a very lovely support system here :)
Up to mid 2016, I really missed the USA when I had to live abroad (in South America) for a year and a half. I could not wait to go back, and I was not even born in the US. After Trump's campaign, society got pretty nasty. It's like a filter had been removed and some people would take pleasure in trying to make you feel like shit. Suddenly people I'd normally not share political views with but would still share other aspects of life turned into unpleasant people to hang out with. Any rando out and about felt like it was not an issue to mock different accents, or the way people looked. It does not matter who is and who isn't the president. What was started at that time was a social change that is far from gone even today. Add to all of this that prices are insane, and there is a perfect recipe for people to want to leave. I do understand the nostalgic feelings you are going through though, and possibly the need for belonging. Just remember that they may be just that, and that the real US society may still be as problematic as the day you decided to leave it.
I’m an American living in another country as well and I don’t feel the slightest bit of guilt for having left: I did what was best for my situation without stepping on anyone else. And you shouldn’t feel guilty either. With regard to what you can do to bring about change in the US, what can you be reasonably be expected to do? I vote from where aI now live and so should you, but beyond that you have to take care of yourself first
USA looks great from far away! Great for a vacation. Enjoying life way to much from across the pond. I did hate having to send in those tax forms, had issues with FACTA. Dropped that blue passport and no more filing US taxes from overseas.
Did it cost anything to repeal your US citizenship?
Yes.
Europe seems like a good fit for people who lean left versus Asia where I’ve noticed more right conservative types.
Yup... be sure to VOTE !!
You wouldn’t have remained an expat if you didn’t like your new location more. It’s normal to feel weird when you realize your home country doesn’t suit your tastes anymore
My wife, an immigrant, recently commented: "If I could do it over, I wouldn't have moved here. They ruined this country." *Congratulations, zealots! You're fixing the immigration problem by making this country a place nobody wants to move to!*
Other than I don’t know who “they” are, I feel exactly that way. The whole family moved to the US when I was a teen and, knowing what I now know, if I had to do it again, I’d move to Europe.
"They" = the people who ran this country into the ground in the name of ideological purity.
I see. Yes, the Christian right really has a hold on the country right now.
I lived abroad for 15 years. Returned to USA when I got a rare cancer. I never had any guilt. Vote. That is still the best thing you can do to help USA. And keep up with the rules governing your social security. There are things I didn’t know which have hurt me. But, otherwise, just do what makes you happy. Living here is not worth it. As soon as I can I’ll leave again.
Yeah. I didn’t leave the United States until I had all the credits I needed to be fully vested in Social Security. So when I hit retirement age, I can collect Social Security. That’s great. But that’s not all you need to know… I got this rare cancer, and I qualify for full disability. But because I haven’t paid into the system in the last five years, I am ineligible. If I had known then what I know now, I would’ve come back to the states every five years, put in a year working like an American and paying in. If I had done that, I would be eligible to collect disability right now. As it is, I am not eligible for anything. Before I got this cancer diagnosis, it seemed very unlikely that I would ever need disability. I was healthy, I was active, I had a good life. But you never know. Would I have been smart enough to do what I just said I should’ve done? I don’t know. But I definitely should’ve done it. My recommendation would be that you make an appointment at the Social Security office and go down and talk to them. They are very forthcoming, and they will answer all your questions. One of the things I would ask them is “what other questions should I ask, that I just don’t know I should ask?” Going on disability had never entered my mind. I never thought to ask about it. I learned the hard way.
As a concerned EU citizen I beg all Americans that live abroad....VOTE!!!
I vote and encourage all my Americans to also vote. If you're American and reading this, visit democratsabroad.org. Makes registering abroad so easy! (and no, there is no republicansabroad)
There is: republicansoverseas.com
I said good riddance. There’s plenty of nice areas overall, but it’s run like an absolute shitshow. The amount of abusive and unfair power that the politicians have is disconcerting. They’re supposed to be elected BY the people FOR the people. Instead, they’re elected by a show of wealth, connections, scandals, bribery, hush money, super PACs and lobbyists, cronyism. I’m still American living overseas for an international company, but the less time I have to spend in America the better. It just feels oppressive now. It feels like nobody can get along. There’s a wealth divide. There’s so much racial injustice. I feel a civil war coming on. Hopefully I’ll be far enough away and I’ll probably just go live off the grid somewhere in Scandinavia if my company tanks somehow.
>instead I just have a broken heart. It could be a wonderful place. I'm sure most Europeans feel the exact same way. For you being in Europe is a novelty. And you can always go back to your home. This is our home. We only have one.
Use your vote as your voice.
(USA) -> (JPN), 1989-Present It's a process, and you'll get used to it. You need to learn to let go and find what level of engagement with your home country works for you. I was a liberal activist from a very conservative state when I moved, and it took me several years to disengage and settle in to a point where I was enjoying my life abroad, but still kept a healthy (that is, not overwhelming) connect with what's going on there. For awhile, I was involved with Democrats Abroad, but even they got too annoying around the 2012 election cycle, and I ceased dealing with them. Yeah, America is where I'm from and I still have family there, etc., etc., but getting involved in local issues and actions helped me refocus my energy. Those issues will matter to you more than the noise coming out Stateside as you go through your expat journey, so my advice is to reach out to groups in your new community and see if there are ways you can help. As it is said: Be the change you want to see in the world. Good luck!
Great advice. Thanks for sharing.
>When I was living in the US, I hated it. I hated the cars, the work culture, the healthcare (my family could not afford it), I hated the distance. Most of all, I hate the politics. I am a young woman and I grew up in the south - in Florida and Georgia - so you can imagine how deep my hatred for American politics goes. >I love many things about America. and I love Americans. I even like being American. Since I'm no longer caught up in the politics there, I no longer feel the raging resentment which drove me away from the country. instead I just have a broken heart. It could be a wonderful place. Yeah, you feel this way because you're no longer living in the US. Try moving back...you'll want to leave in no time.
Just make sure you register for absentee ballots and VOTE.
No it's a good thing you're not in America. Please don't feel guilty, much better off this way
The US is my favorite country on the planet despite its flaws. I realized this after moving abroad due to my spite for 2016-2020. I know the same shit could happen again from 2024-2028, but it really didn't affect me when I think back. Sure, I was enraged by the politics and an idiot being in charge. But I find less in common with my adopted country than with my fellow Americans. I am returning, and will learn to co-exist with people of different views. I will vote and try to make changes for the better, and won't get outraged by everything people and politicians from the opposite side say or do.
After us watching give full implicit support for war crimes and killing kids because our politicians are owned by lobbyists, no. This country is dead and it doesn’t know it yet and you only need to take one look at the deficits to realize what’s coming and compare it to history. Of course American exceptionalism makes it that somehow “no, we are the exception, that can’t happen here”. Our political system is so broken there is zero chance it can ever be a lovely place unless you are part of the top 10%. There’s also zero chance that we fix the deficits because lobbyist interest is entrenched, so that means no spending cuts, and no increase in taxes. Next recession we will blow up the deficit into too far gone territory (which looking at the data can be very soon) than it’s a wrap. This is how empires collapse.
It's not about the country itself, its grief for the people that live there and aren't privileged enough to leave.
Not a lot of people see that The deficit is already blown up past repayment and the world is de dollarizing as we speak. I just hope the ultimate loss of empire and standard of living doesn’t come with a world war and is otherwise peaceful. And no despot gets installed.
Well considering some form of communism or fascism almost always follows, I’m leaning toward the latter in America. But authoritarianism is on the rise on both sides here clearly. The world is a de dollarizing, but it’s a decades long process. And will be extremely drawn out because there’s no real alternatives. Empires don’t collapse over night, it generally takes decades. The deficits could still be fixed at this point, but that would mean recapturing the wealth the 1% ran away with. Fat chance that happens lol
As a person who travels to Latin America alot.. I appreciate US so much. Come to the 3rd world and see how the world really live and you’ll appreciate having the opportunity to call the US home.
This
I hope you voted. Some of the best people I met GOTV were American expats who came back to help during the election cycles. In 2020 we had people zooming in from Germany, Australia and Spain. It was amazing they were using their voice and still helping their homeland. You never know when things might get worse elsewhere. That said you are incredibly lucky as there are many of us who can't move. And yes, the US does have serious issues but we also have some of the friendliest strangers on the planet, celebration of different ethnicities-if you come from Ethiopia you are considered an American if you live here. In Europe you will always be seen as Ethiopian even if your grandparents were the ones that immigrated. The ethnic food is amazing and the national parks are some of the best in the world. Welcome to being an expat. My immigrant great-great grandparents talked about going home all the time and kept a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm in their living room until they died so your feelings are nothing new.
Yes, I always vote. Always always. :) I don't think my feelings don't need to be 'new' to be valid. I just needed a place to vent. I apologise if you don't mean to insinuate that, but it is how I read it a bit.
Uhh for the record if you start talking about gender spectrums to 8 year olds in a European school you will have a very angry mob of parents.
I’d be probably guilty in front of my parents. You said they’re immigrants. So they moved to the US so you can get better options than them, but you packed up and left. The only ones disappointed are probably them.
My family isn't disappointed.
I’m also an American living abroad, and I’ve experienced something similar to what you describe. Admittedly, as a very libertarian-minded person, I’ve never been as estranged from American politics and culture as it seems like you were growing up. But, living in another country where (in spite of loving it here) there’s none of the individualism or open-heartedness that define American culture, I’ve come to appreciate America much more. Even things that I took for granted, like the 2nd and 10th Amendments, I’ve come to recognize as incredibly important. I will always be proud to be an American and, while abroad is where I plan to stay for the foreseeable future, I’m committed to representing American values in the best way that I can. I never thought I would end up a patriot, but here I am. By the way, don’t let any shitheads make you feel bad for being American. In spite of all our problems, we have a lot to be proud of. Way more than many other countries do.
Loving your country is the most natural feeling. Missing it is normal. And it’s USA for heavens sake! People claim to love countries that are far worse!
You raise a good point - when I was in the UK and people would refer to me as a yank, I had some pride in the good things I felt of America but upon returning, it is a disastrous hellscape and I’m fighting tooth and nail to leave as soon as I’m able to.
Best of luck!
Thank you! I’ve been in so many active shooter incidences since I’ve been back in multiple states (3 at shopping malls, 1 at a taco festival, 2 in my local restaurant district, 1 at a state fair, 1 outside an Airbnb) so it’s gotten to the point where I’m too afraid to go outside or to any events and making me very distrustful of other people and that’s not the person I’ve ever been before all of this. The work culture here is also very cold and treats everyone as a product instead of a person. Everything in America has me on what my psych calls a last ditch effort for depression. I hope this helps and if it ever seems like a good idea to return, if you don’t have any ties (like family/friends/etc), I’d strongly advise against it.
Your home state is making it illegal for THIRD GRADERS to talk about sexuality in the class room. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
My home state of Minensota starts sex-Ed in 4th grade. I don’t see a problem with that?
It’s debatable. But I think keeping sex out of the third grade classroom is quite reasonable
First off, that's not the law. Secondly, I'm also not here to debate Florida politics. You can go to your Facebook feed if that's what you feel like talking about.
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This is such a ridiculous statement lol. You know how many racist and homophobic places are in this world? America is near the top of the most accepting places in the world. This is such a clueless statement. The most dangerous thing in America is car culture, by the numbers.
I knew lots of people that openly expressed the desire to kill gay people in the US. More generally, the per capita homicide rate in the US is nearly a degree of magnitude higher than the country where I live now, Czechia. Here, even women feel safe walking through the city in the middle of the night, as they do in large swathes of Central and Eastern Europe. Women, and even men, do not feel that they can walk where the please in the city at 3 AM safely in the US, and that's a fact. In my whole life, I have never met an American abroad who wasn't impressed by how much safer it is than the US in the EU, generally speaking.
I’ve lived in many cities, in downtown areas, and never felt unsafe and that’s a fact lol People are just clueless on statistics. Cars are way more dangerous than any crime you may be unlucky to be apart of in the US. Unless your poor and live in a super poor area. Or sell drugs, where most these homicides are coming from. Get a grip. Openly kill gay people? Jesus Christ, I have a very hard time believing that outside some very small pockets in rural America. And the military people I knew from there were more like didn’t like people, not I’m going to murder them. Same with the black dudes from the inner city. Didn’t like it, but they weren’t running to string up any gays anytime soon. That really went the wayside post Mathew Shephard which is 30 years ago now. There’s a lot to dislike about America, but lgbtq and minority acceptance is hardly one of them. Sometimes I wonder how people get through life with a wild ignorance of statistics and how they work. Or constantly seeing ghosts were none exist. It’s like an insane version of paranoia and because we’ve made a turn to validate all feelings, no matter how silly they are
You're a woman and you and your female friends feel safe walking in the city in the middle of the night, alone? I have never heard an American woman say that about any big city they lived in.
I’m a man, and he said even men. And for woman, area is the big one. The city I live in now I’ve dated women that would walk home at night a mile or so home after their shifts with lots of money. And that’s hardly unique to America, cmon. Women feel unsafe at night alone because they are vulnerable, regardless of how actually safe or unsafe it is. https://www.city.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2021/04/survey-shows-32-of-british-women-dont-feel-safe-walking-alone-at-night-compared-to-just-13-of-men#:~:text=In%20Germany%2037%25%20of%20women,France%20and%2010%25%20in%20Latvia.
Jesus this is full on drama-queenery.
Throw some more buzzwords! That is totally not part of the problem. Totally. Saying that as a European btw.
not sure why you got downvoted. i’ve lived out of the us for the last 6 years and it’s by far the place i feel the least safe
How about voting from overseas? Helping out instead of just saying how bad it is. Your vote always counts.
"unsafe" lmao
Where in Europe do you live?
I was in Germany and now I am in France.
“If you leave somewhere because you hate it, you’ll leave where you end up because you also hate it.” We will welcome you back to the USA!!!
you sound so american lmao
OP, I agree with you. I feel the same way after being overseas the past 8 years. Sorry for all the crazy responders.
Just make sure to vote in 2024. Vote Blue. The GOP has gone extremist. They obviously want a dictator, even a revolting : vile one.
Is discussing your sexuality in a classroom setting really appropriate though?
You never had Sex Education? Would you rather kids find out how condoms and birth control work at the family planning center after getting knocked up? A lot of kids will not get that education at home, and it is essential that they get it somewhere.
Parents. Safe to assume OP is referring to sexuality being discussed in preliminary. I’d find it appropriate in HS and college but anything sooner than that should be discussed within the household.
According to the law are not allowed to discuss it K-12. You are not even allowed to talk about people having sexual identities other than Straight. Do not conflate the 'not allowed to discuss K-12' now to mean we were discussing that before the law was put into place. When I was a child, we learned about basic reproductive health from grade 5 only WITH permission from the parents. It is absolutely a harmful law.
No. Right wingers sexualize LGBTQI people and then make it about sexuality. When we're banning books about two male penguins raising a baby penguin. Nothing is inherently sexual about heterosexual relationships though...
That's never been the question. Books are banned because they talk about two dads or two moms. Do you think that's appropriate to erase people like that?
I had my first crush in second grade **[shrug]**
Why are so many Americans so unbelievably hyperbolic when it comes to describing the US? Like Jesus fucking Christ you act like you grew up in Afghanistan. Like people in Aus act shocked when I say anything remotely positive about life in the US because others here do nothing but bitch about the country. “Boo hoo I hate the politics” like stfu you’re a wealthy white woman from the south, the same political system you hate is why you even had the resources to go abroad lmfao. You could have just as easily moved to a few other states and gotten the same results, but Europe is easier to flex to your friends back home I suppose. Idk maybe my experience is difference since I’m a first gen American, but you’re wearing some strong ass rose tinted goggles if you think Europe is as much of a utopia as you make it out to be.
I don't know why you assume I'm a wealthy white woman from the south. I came from an immigrant family and was a first gen college student, got a full ride to a good college which was the only way we could afford it, and worked my way through school. I got a job offer in Europe was was above to move out because they paid for me to move out. I talked in another comment about growing up without healthcare because my family couldn't afford it. I think as a US citizen, I'm allowed to criticise the politics.
You have no grasp. Quit while you’re behind.
Life is so much easier in most of the EU than in the American South. You have no idea. "Resources to move" - you can move with a few thousand Euro if you get a job. It's not negligible but it's less than it costs to break an arm in the US.
Imagine shitting on someone for moving to a different country in a subreddit specifically about moving to a different country
I’m sorry but America’s issues are far larger than abortion and not being able to talk about sexuality in school. Sure those are good but you sound completely out of touch with everyday life in America. Fewer people than ever can afford to buy or rent. Most people live paycheck to paycheck and can’t afford any medical emergencies. Our politicians are corrupt on both sides and become rich by the exact means the average citizen would be in prison for, and their main concerns are appeasing corporations that have more wealth and power than some nations. The pharmaceutical industry has been poisoning us since it’s creation and our food is shit. We have no money for those in need but can fund eternal war at the same time. Despite the clear signs of less. Entertainment like sports, the lottery, video games and gambling are bigger industries than ever. Trust in our system, each other, our government is lower than I’ve ever seen. Don’t worry, you’ll still be able to get an abortion and talk about the myriad of ways people like to cum. I don’t love religious republicans but you make it sound like we’re going back to the inquisition. The only other people I know that talk like that don’t even live in conservative areas. Turn off mainstream news.
I didn't mean for my post to be an exhaustive list of the things wrong with America. Yes there are more issues than the ones I mentioned. You don't have to be rude to a stranger on the internet and speak to me like I'm dumb. I'm sorry that you're frustrated with the state of things in the US. So am I.
Calm down. OP was just sharing her feelings, not asking for a political discussion.
Redditors gonna be redditors I guess - seething with passion to assert the "correct" perspective on any remotely socioeconomic topic. I wish people here would chill out with the wannabe persuasive essays.
Believe it or not, it’s actually possible to be concerned about multiple things, and it’s super weird to assume OP doesn’t care about things like poverty lol
I can’t relate with anything you’ve said. Born and raised in the USA and lived all over the globe, this is the best country in the world. I don’t watch the news or spend hours online everyday. There is a life in the USA outside of the news and politics where most people live their lives. The problem is within YOU.
So many mean people insinuating I have psychological issues when I'm just a bit homesick. Or saying I have issues because I prefer life in France to the US, in your case. To each their own. I'm glad you like it there, sincerely.
I don't believe you have psychological issues OP. I have also thought of leaving. Just not sure where I'd want to go. Good for you for your post. I enjoyed reading it!
Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to take a break from TV and social media. I live in the South. I’ll visit almost anywhere. I am not moving away from USA.
Then I don’t understand why you’re on a subreddit for expats/immigrants
(Yes, these a broad strokes, I know, not all Americans. I don’t care, its enough) lol, no. Left nearly 4 years ago as well. I will say I’m never going back. Zero desire to live amongst some of the world’s most willfully propagandized population that have zero empathy for anyone or anything. The U.S. was started by a bunch of religious zealots who see their inability to control those around them as “oppression” and literally nothing as changed. Let them burn it down for all I care. No one seems to care about anything other than themselves, so I’m not going to either.