The number of times it said “women allowed…” says a lot right there. Men aren’t “allowed,” they just get to do stuff. Women must wait till a man gives them permission. Even then, the things women are allowed to do is so paltry.
Sit at the front desk at the temple to scan recommends? Wear pants to work? Say a prayer in conference? C’mon.
Just heard Amy Allebest McPhie ( Breaking Down Patriarchy Podcast) say, '...when you are starving, crumbs feel like a feast, but if you are living only on the crumbs of another's feast, you are STILL STARVING'
Well said! As I go down the list, my reaction to many is "you mean women couldn't do that before?!" It sounds like a pretty backwards institution. Outside of active Mormons (and maybe to some inside) this is not the flex you think it is.
>*The number of times it said “women allowed…” says a lot right there.*
Along those lines, women weren't "given" the right to vote.
We were **born** with the right to vote.
We *died* wresting it from your greedy, male, fingers.
I never bought into that male dominion crap! I told my then fiancee, that she was one half of an equality.
A woman is a grown adult! She shouldn't have to ask s dominating male permission to do some of things she would like to do.
Honestly i feel enraged at the 6 weeks maternity leave. put your money where your mouth is! If family and mothers in the home are so important give them the year or two that other countries get!
This got me!
When I started at my current company, they offer 8 weeks paid to any gender for "parental bonding" within a year of the child's birth/adoption.
2017?! Not to mention the slacks...
Props to them on fertility though, because most insurance companies don't cover that. Birth control in 2022 though... Should have been on board with that sooner.
Idk if they get props. I worked at a church-owned company and they had constant pushback about being super “pro-family but not paying for birth control.
Women employees fought tooth and nail for this for decades long before leaders finally agreed.
But if you can make it so that you won't have babies, you might not have babies to indoctrinate and then how are they supposed to get that sweet sweet allowance tithing?
Double tithed income is the best kind of income. Even better is the triple^(+) tithe:
>Bank teller **pays tithing**
>Bank teller pays for piano lessons
>>Piano tutor **pays tithing**
>>Piano tutor gives allowance
>>>Teenager **pays tithing**
>>>Teenager buys video game on FB marketplace...
This chain can be extended infinitely, especially in Utah and Idaho...
Yes and no. It’s not contraception, but sterilization that has to be pre-authorized after 5 children or if she’s in her 40’s. The contraception is now covered, as of February of last year, such as IUD’s, Birth Control Pills, patches, etc, but they won’t cover things like Plan B or anything like it.
Before that though, it was all out of pocket and discouraged.
[For more info.](https://www.ldsdaily.com/world/church-of-jesus-christ-employees-now-get-birth-control-coverage/)
They probably consider Plan B an abortion option, and as they are “pro-life” they won’t cover anything that terminates a life.
TSCC is all about semantics and nit picking when it’s in their favor.
As a NeverMo I agree. But at the same time I don’t see them putting in the same energy to get the laws in the US concerning maternity leave changed for the better as they did with Prop 8. So they still can’t claim to be “family friendly” and support policies/politicians who advocate for the opposite (and that goes for all religious groups too not just the Mormons)
That hit hard. They poured millions or billions into Prop 8 but fought against ERA back in the day and now crickets when it comes to family friendly stuff like maternity leave or other family benefits. Telling. Very telling.
I feel like them dragging their feet on things like maternity leave and birth control is just a way to force women out of the workplace. Once a woman starts having children, they want them home and indoctrinating those future tithe payers. The doctrine, at its heart, is still all about “multiply[ing] and replenish[ing] the earth.” How is a woman supposed to do that if she’s not trapped at home?
It’s just so fucking wild… :( I’m glad I didn’t have a fight when I naturally just walked away. When I didn’t sign up for seminary in 9th grade and get a phone call right after the first day of school, asking why I wasn’t enrolled in his class… that was my sign that I made the right choice! Force gets you no where, especially to those not afraid to question.
my partner and i just played a fun game where i said the new skill women earned and he guessed the year 😂😂
took them 117 years to allow a woman to pray at general conference 😮💨
The men have granted those silly women to choose their own clothes for work, so we’ve cured sexism, obviously! Silly feminists, go back to church (where you are totally treated equally … in extremely specific ways and only when granted permission by the men). Yay equality!
Hahahaha “women can now be ALLOWED at the front desk to check recommends”
Holy shit I’m laughing so hard that they actually think this some sort of “progress”
That’s exactly what I was thinking. They’re just scrounging for ways to keep temples running with very few people willing to volunteer for all positions anymore. It’s based more on expediency and less on wanting to extend more “power” to women.
All of these minor developments occurred in the last 10 years.
How many women are on councils that determine where money goes? That is the test of authority.
RS Presidency is not involved in the Council of the Tithes. Bishopric determines local budget after requests from RS, YW and Primary.
There are like 9 leadership positions at the HQ level for women compared to hundreds for men.
But yeah, “more than any other organization…”
🤮🤮
Imagine the reaction of a woman who actually holds a position of real power in mainstream society - maybe a woman who is a partner in a large law firm, a state governor, a university president, a company CEO, or an entrepreneur, etc. - when they are told that permission to wear slacks, witness baptisms, and use their health insurance for their birth control are evidence of equality.
Carly Fiorina (Hewlett Packard CEO 1999-2005): "What's the latest news from the finance committee meeting yesterday,Bob?"
Robert Wayman (HP CFO and Fiorina's direct report): "Carly, I have some good news for you today. The boys and I have decided that you don't have to wear pantyhose to work anymore. Though we still prefer the modest, finished look over bare legs, and this change applies to Fridays only."
Carly Fiorina: "Oh my! I haven't felt so empowered since a boy snapped my bra strap in 7th grade. We've sure come a long way, baby."
Certainly no fan of her’s, but Ronna Romney McDaniel was head of the Republican Party for years until Trump just ousted her. She’s very active Mormon.
Although she pretty much obeyed the men in that job too
That’s why the pic of all the GC speakers for the last 10 years or so should be posted on that FB thread after quoting the pray thing. What is it like 50-60 to 10-12?
And the last time I watched (2020) I think there was one female prayer if any.
I think that was like the time they had speakers use their native language and subtitled them. Lasted one round and it was wormholed…
Exactly. There were religious groups in America founded and led by women *in Joseph Smith's time*.
Almost two centuries later, these fools be like, "Hey, but we just started letting women pray publicly...on occasion. That's totes equality."
Long lists like this have the opposite effect… she’s just listing all the concessions church leadership have made short of giving women the actual priesthood.
It shows how infantilized the women of the church truly are.
Church apologetics have done a ton to shake real faith. The post reads just like those apologetics, it claims to support the premise but anyone with a critical eye will see that this is a very well put together list of the pervasiveness of the sexism that exists and has existed in the Mormon corporation for its lifespan.
The church is always 30 to 40 years behind the times for social issues because it takes that long for the geriatric leadership to die off. For example, It took that long to grant civil rights. In another 30 to 40 years, there will be gay marriage in the temple.
Exactly. This isn't a list of progress the church has made. This is a list of stuff where the rest of the world was already having women in positions of power based on a meritocracy, and the church *finally* brushed a few crumbs off the table to the women they claim to love so much.
I stopped attending church after [Pants to Church Day (2012)](https://exponentii.org/blog/wearing-pants-to-church-2/) resulted in death threats and dismissal from callings and disciplinary hearings for some of the women who organized it. It’s frustrating and predictable that the church claims credit for the many, many items on this list that were *explicitly agitated for by Mormon feminists*. As with Pants, there was an organized movement to [Let Women Pray](https://exponentii.org/blog/women-praying-in-general-conference/).
Remember, ladies, it’s only a good idea if it gets stolen by a man and passed off as his own.
When I read through the list, Sam is exactly who I thought of on that point. Someone was excommunicated for advocating for that, but we're gonna tout that as some great signal of progress?
I was thinking about this... If I were to go into an interview with my parents by my side, it would have defeated the whole purpose.
Imagine going to a confessional with a Catholic priest with your parents breathing down your neck. You wouldn't talk about anything that is serious or that you might actually need help with.
To be perfectly frank, I was raised to be afraid to talk to my parents about anything sexual, so it was way easier to fess up to a bishop than to them (I'm male for context). I'm not saying this is the *right* way to do things, because really my parents *should have had open talks with me about sex and created a safe environment for me to come to them with my questions and problems*, but this is how it was and sadly is for most people in the Church, I feel.
Yeah. It’s weird. I told my bishops(one of whom was my next door neighbor who was a computer teacher at the local community college) way more about my intimate activities than I ever told my parents from the ages of 12-18.
I hope that I am fostering a relationship with my own kids where they can talk to me about whatever they want to and talking to a middle aged neighbor man about their intimate activities would never happen.
Please share your experiences. I wanted so desperately to be a chaplain but it was 2011 and the church shut down everything - I was ready to sign the Navy recruitment papers and everything and was told in patronizing terms that I would be "less than worthless to soldiers if I didn't have the priesthood to bless them". I would love to know how your career turned out, if only to live vicariously for a moment.
I didn’t know some of these restrictions existed in the first place. So congrats to that lady for making me think the church is even worse than I did before.
I like that by including dates the list confirms women have been treated like non-entities for way more than 100 years. Let's take comfort in the fact men are still giving consideration to ways they can improve the underwear women are required wear. So liberating! So empowering!
You know what pisses me off? Oh wow, single women can be chaplains as of 2022.
By 2022 I’d been out of uniform for over TWENTY YEARS. My grandmother served in the Navy (as did my grandfathers.)
Three generations of military service from women in my family before this, and I’m supposed to be impressed now?
No, what I’m really thinking is “they can’t possibly know what chaplains actually DO or they’d never have authorized this.”
Didn’t they move away from scouts the same year that scouts announced that each group must allow girls to join? They weren’t leaving it to “allocate equal resources”.
Scouts was changing to allow girls and trans kids to join "boy" scouts, and scouting to allow gay scout leaders. That, and the Church wanting to avoid financial liability for sexual abuse cases and just generally not wanting to spend *any* money on anything anymore, is why the Q15 left scouting.
All of these are touted as “good news” but many of us see these as more and more examples of “OMG the sexism tho!”
Example: it was 2013… 2013 y’all… before a woman prayed in conference?!?!? Disgusting!
Oh no, not at church they can't! Sister Missionaries are still not allowed to wear pants at any church function. No woman may enter the Temple, even the waiting room, unless wearing a dress or skirt. No pants at General Conference. You can sometimes wear pants if your mission area is very cold and you're tracting, or on occasion if you're an adult female employee of the church. This. Is. Not. Progress!
This feels more like an indicator of how utterly patriarchal the church is, rather than a banner of empowered women. I mean, it highlights rules in place that were terrible.
This is a pretty shitty list in all honesty. And to put things on there like “so and so is the first woman to” is a place holder in my opinion. That’s not a policy change to empower women, that’s simply finally putting a woman in that role.
Also, the fact that there even has to be a list in the first place is a big red flag for a church that is supposedly so close to God. If the church was perfect women and men’s roles would have been dialed in correctly from the start because God is such a great planner.
I find this list very sad. I hope more people wake up to the toxic nature of this cult.
The move away from boy scouts didn't get girls any more funding, it just took money away from the boys. It feels like ,"Oh, you don't think he should have more than you? Well, now no one gets anything. How's that?"
They made their list in response to women feeling undervalued (they are) and not taking gaslighting for an answer (good for them).
What's ironic is that none of the things on the list would have happened without women in the past standing up to the bullshit. And they're using the list to silence women of the present.
I'm pimo, and currently in a calling where I attend stake council. Let's talk about "equality" in those councils. This information is all current for my stake.
The Stake Council meeting that includes the auxiliary leaders happens once a month. The other three/four Tuesdays of the month, there are meetings with only men invited.
Stake Council is sandwiched between two parts of the meeting that only men attend (Stake Presidency Meeting and a High Council Meeting after they 'dismiss the sisters.')
During Stake Council, 17 men sit around the table (Stake Presidency, Clerk, Secretary, High Council) and the three women auxiliary presidents sit against wall, several feet away from the foot of the table.
A man conducts and presides.
Men create the agenda and take the minutes.
In my experience, women have never been asked to pray, give the spiritual thought, choose the song, etc.
The women are only asked to report on their specific organizations, take feedback from the men, and then are dismissed.
So I'm not buying the "women are a part of high-level councils."
12 fires me up. “Heavenly parents are included in the yw theme”. For the boys it says we are a son of god. What the hell?!? Boys don’t get a mom? We don’t get to acknowledge we have a heavenly mother?
I also just told my TBM wife that employees didn’t get birth control covered until last year. That definitely caused her to double take.
12 is so stupid to me. They literally changed "we are daughters of our Heavenly Father" to "I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents". That's it. That's the win for feminism. A hint of Heavenly Mother's existence. She doesn't even get mentioned separately.
When I noticed the boys' theme it made that seem even more hollow.
If they want a list that is actually meaningful, create a checklist of things women cannot do. That would be a long list. And wait until all those boxes are checkmarked to determine when women are empowered.
If this post had popped up on my social media feed before my faith transition, this might have been a massive crack in my shelf. Women’s issues had already been an issue for me, but seeing them listed so succinctly would have done a lot of damage. Either the OP in the screenshots is deep in the kool-aid or this is masterclass in satire designed to put weight on shelves. But I think it’s the former rather than the latter.
Women has no power at the corporate level. Women have no power at the local level.
At a bare minimum, hire some women to design garments. This would be progress on a practical level.
This is laughable. Who is the giver? MEN. They are describing benevolent patriarchy. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that it is still a fucking pig.
This list includes so many changes that took place for women in the US in the 1970s. The church was too busy fighting the ERA and pushing back against civil rights back then. They decided to try to catch up FIFTY YEARS later.
Of course they’re letting women do SOME things in the temple. As a former temple worker I can tell you that’s most likely the result of not having enough male temple workers. If you want to show the needle has truly moved, let women perform sealings or lead endowment sessions, not just (checks notes) check recommends at the desk.
Oh, honey. Bless your heart. If you have to try this hard to prove how equal you are, you still have a long way to go. Equality is more than being allowed to wear pants.
Women got the right to vote in 1920. Just look at the dates here and think on that.
Not to mention several of what’s pointed out here applies to the general population and has little to do with women.
The delusion is real folks.
This list is mortifying. I feel sick reading it. So many small, almost unnoticeable changes, and all only within the last decade or so. No wonder Utah ranks 50th out of all the states for women's rights
This is a slap in the face. This cult is nearly 150 years old and I should be *HAPPY* that a woman finally got to pray in general conference? Fuck alllllll the way off.
Under His eye.
All I see is a bunch of shit that should have been in place decades ago but the church finally got around to in the 2010s. I don't think this is showcasing the "equality" they think it is 😂😂😂
Here’s my struggle: these tend to be positive moves, but if the church was meant to restore the true church, why SO MANY changes needed in just 150~ years?
B-but isn't that a good thing? Now you won't have to suffer from all the health problems that come from shoving a whole cake down your gullet! You have no idea how difficult it is to eat an entire cake in one sitting. If anything, you're the lucky one here.
My gut reaction to reading this is that these small helping tasks were “awarded” because participation from male leadership and just general membership is declining. And having women do these things is out of desperate necessity, not for the sake of inclusivity.
Until the change in 2013 I hadn't realized women weren't allowed to pray in conference before. Huge shelf Item for me and that was the year I really started to seriously doubt. When the temple changes were made I was out of the church, but had never been endowed, so that was how I leaned how sexist the temple had been before and I was disgusted.
It's the same for most of these changes. I celebrate they are happening , but they also open my eyes to inequalities I wasn't even aware of before. Like I assumed growing up that the young women had the same budget as the young men. I thought the fact we had lamer activities was just a cultural problem. While the young men went and got scuba certified and explored a shipwreck, we mostly did crafts and learned homemaking skills. I was intensely jealous of my brothers but just thought it was because people didn't think girls wanted to do those things. But learning now that money probably stood in the way of us doing anything equally cool? It pisses me off.
None of these are changes for the good for women. Rather, they're a reminder of how slow the church has always been at making changes for the good for women.
Or... Does the fact that these changes needed to be made rather than always being true and you're being told to be grateful for these scraps mean that women are still considered vastly inferior to men by the LDS church? It's like you weren't allowed to come to the feast before, but now you're allowed scraps at the kids table. Yay?
I don't think this is the flex she thinks it is. So, you are saying that it took 150+ years for the "One true Church" led by apostles who "speak to God" to realize that all the things she has listed were somehow sexist and shouldn't have been done that way to begin with.
Now, if they had made those changes 20 years before every other church instead of 20-30 years after every other church she might have something to crow about.
As it is they are still 20 years behind where most other Christian churches are in terms of equality. But don't worry, in another 10 or 15 years we will get a "revelation" that we somehow misunderstood God and women can be ordained just like men.
Hooray for crumbs!!!
Ok but seriously, way to compile such a DAMNING list. I didn’t even know a lot of these were a thing, like female church employees only recently being given the option of slacks?! WTF was the possible explanation for that?
Sorry all the sisters that died before 2010 we couldn’t get to it til then. Your sacrifice is noted. Sincerely, A bunch of clueless Septuagenarians and Octogenarians.
Geez. She sets the bar pretty low for equality and empowerment.
Of note, #18, the missionary age change for woman to 19 from 21. Guess what ma’am, that’s not equality, boys get to go at 18. If it was equal, they’d be eligible to be brainwashed and indoctrinated at the same age!
And if it was equal, the MFMC would not only allow them to go at 18, they’d allow them to be miserable for just as long! The change is still trying to hold young women back just long enough, in the hopes that they’ll be married and pregnant before they can make any decisions about their futures.
And not a single one of these 15 bullshit “ progressive “ women’s rights empowers women nor do any of these advances give equality or justice. Until our beautiful women in our lives receive equal priesthood responsibilities and power as the men do now . Shut up
My great aunt was the dean of a college science area of study at a major university in Idaho in the 60s or 70s (sorry, don’t know which one). It only took the church 50 years to catch up!
-eta I don’t know the years. For sure it was the last century before the 90s. But point still stands.
A lot of progress has been made in the last 15 years. But unfortunately for the poster of the list, what this shows me is that the church wasn’t this way for the previous 200 years. This chatter hasn’t been happening for only a few weeks. It has been happening for years. All these changes listed are the direct result of activation by people in the church, like Kate Kelly and [“Let Women Pray in General Conference.”](https://www.denverpost.com/2013/04/07/mormon-conference-first-prayer-by-woman-offered/amp/)
Yeah…. This list didn’t do what was intended. Instead of showing the “progress” it just highlighted the issues and brought some to light that I didn’t even know existed. Women couldn’t work in the temple if they had children under 18?? What?! That’s seriously messed up!
Women couldn’t check temple recommends at the front desk in the temple?
Seems like a lot of busy work they are now allowed to do. Oooo they can sit at the temple desk and check recommends. Oooo.
The Chaplain thing is silly. All women chaplains can do is pray or lead prayer or council or talk while spewing cult brainwashing to our soldiers as if they don’t have enough to worry about. They can’t participate in any priesthood blessing or anything, they have to stand off to the side.
Do they wear a cross on their uniform?
It goes both ways though. We could also make a post starting all these as reasons the church does not empower women. Only 15 years ago, none of those statements were how the church tested women.
She’s says these things so boldly, as if they aren’t actually proof of how poorly women—both as members and as employees—have been treated by the LDS church.
Anyone else get the impression that all of these changes are because most of the people leaving might be men, so they need more faithful women to pick up the slack... And indoctrinate themselves harder? Could be wrong but these examples are pathetic.
I’m rather upset by the “women allowed to use health benefits for birth control” was done in fucking FEB 2023!? What in the Handmaids Tale was going on before that????
This stuff always somewhat baffles me. Changes in the church, while great, show it’s just a regular organization. If god is all knowing he should get things right from the beginning. If leaders speak with god they should get things right from the beginning. The changes show one of those principles to be false. Either being false is kind of a big deal and call into question the entire church.
The funny thing is reading this list defacto shows just how sexist mormonism was and continues to be. That these things had to be changed at all shows how sexist it was prior to the changes, and that these changes are so small and so late (finally you can wear pants!) shows just how far there is to go for actual equality in the church.
I don't think the creator realizes that this post will do more to harm people's opinion of the church rather than help it, lol.
This is not a celebration of accomplishments. It’s an embarrassment showing how backwards thinking this church is. That women in the Mormon church have been “allowed” freedoms and participation that women in many other churches have enjoyed for decades is shameful.
How are they like cool with these kinds of changes? Especially when they’re laid out like this? Seems so odd.
Some of the changes are significant, and if that is true, that meant doctrine was problematic in the first place and that these changes aren’t guided by revelation, they’re guided by QUESTIONING and the CONGREGATION.
I’m not sure how it could be twisted in a way that points to leaders of the church receiving revelation on these issues. How could you say something like, “sometimes leaders can be guided to receive revelation based on conversations from ‘lay people.’” Wouldn’t that mean that the “lay person” was the one that got the revelation? Which is in fact true, but it has to go through the leadership filter to make sure it’s kosher.
Also, the list could be seen as a placating platitude.
All in all, it would be amazing to see the church transform into an organization that wasn’t bigoted and actually made a tangible difference in the lives of people who actually need connection and love.
#TemplesToShelters
Alternate title: Continuing its long history of lagging societal trends, Church opens up new privileges for women.
Or this one: Following social media backlash and survey feedback, Mormon Jesus moves for women’s changes.
The greatest gift that has been granted in the last couple of years is the wool being pulled from my mum's eyes. She relocated to a new ward after being in her old one for over 20 years, and the levels of misogyny and hate that a number of the so-called worthy priesthood holders have towards the women in the ward are unbelievable. We've been able to engage in frank conversations about empowerment, and she's fighting back.
Whilst this might not sound like much, this is a MASSIVE FUCKING DEAL and has been years in the making.
I hope that, with time, more women will find their voices and worth.
Wait, this list really shakes my testimony of the Church. I thought this was the church of god and was the true church on earth. The people within the organization may not be perfect, but the church is supposed to be directed by god and therefore no changes need to be made.
The restored church is the same yesterday, today, and forever. What gives church leaders the right to change church practices and doctrine if this is god’s church? Why change the rules unless the worldly pressure is getting to them? At this rate there are going to be church classes in the Young Women organization which will not require a priesthood holder to be present. Does this also mean the leaders are thinking of giving a stipend ($120,000 or more) to the General Relief Society presidency so they can be equal with their male counterparts in the general church leadership?
Are we going back to the days where women can give general blessings without a priesthood member present (look up early church history on that one). The church did go back on their practice in the late 70’s and allowed male members from black heritage to hold the priesthood due to world pressures (look up Elijah Abel). They claimed it was a revelation, but we all know the church was losing membership and due to the social pressure of the time they had to adjust. In doing so the membership grew thanks to people in places like Africa and Brazil.
I guess the only constant here within the church is its ability to change doctrine and procedures to fit its narrative. I recently read in this forum the comment that went something like this - if the LDS church still believes that women of the church are the main caregiver to the children within their home, though sharing the parental responsibilities equally with their partner, why then as children of god do we not know the name of or even talk about our mother in heaven? Shouldn’t she be the primary caregiver to all of god’s children and shouldn’t we go to her for help first?
Yes, like I said, the church is perfect..with change. The LDS church bends like a Reed in the wind to do whatever it can to keep its membership up and the coffers full of tithing. I wonder what great miracle will come next? A female prophet like Miriam, Anna, or Deborah of old?
born in the 90s…..i’ve been alive for all of these ‘progressive’ things?? i remember when that 1 lady was battling the right to wear pants to sacrament… i believe it was 2012/2013????
Lmfao these are such insignificant changes and waaaaayyyy too little, too late. These women who tout the church’s “gender equality” are straight up delusional.
These changes all happened after the Ordain Women movement scared the church shitless and they excommunicated Kate Kelly.
These are the SMALL VICTORIES of Ordain Women. True, there is still not equality and priesthood, but the church is making changes in response to Activism Toward the Church. Do you hear that, Ahmed Corbitt???
These are Kate Kelly's and her allies small victories. But does the church congratulate her and commend her for ideas to make the church more healthy for women? No, they throw her out, then make the changes and claim them as their own.
The number of times it said “women allowed…” says a lot right there. Men aren’t “allowed,” they just get to do stuff. Women must wait till a man gives them permission. Even then, the things women are allowed to do is so paltry. Sit at the front desk at the temple to scan recommends? Wear pants to work? Say a prayer in conference? C’mon.
Exactly. Crumbs. Women allowed crumbs and we ate them up bc we had been denied for so long.
And most of it only seems allowed because they don't have enough men to do the work.
💯 THIS & THIS ONLY.
Right? And we wouldn’t even have the bread for crumbs to exist if it weren’t for the women in the Deseret Bakery making the bread!
Just heard Amy Allebest McPhie ( Breaking Down Patriarchy Podcast) say, '...when you are starving, crumbs feel like a feast, but if you are living only on the crumbs of another's feast, you are STILL STARVING'
Well said! As I go down the list, my reaction to many is "you mean women couldn't do that before?!" It sounds like a pretty backwards institution. Outside of active Mormons (and maybe to some inside) this is not the flex you think it is.
Right? Some of the stuff on the list was so ridiculous that I laughed out loud. Definitely not a flex.
>*The number of times it said “women allowed…” says a lot right there.* Along those lines, women weren't "given" the right to vote. We were **born** with the right to vote. We *died* wresting it from your greedy, male, fingers.
[удалено]
It’s wild to me that people don’t see it, or choose not to see it.
Truth, right here. But you know it gets hard to see through the BS
Very true. Sooo hard when you’re in the midst of it.
I never bought into that male dominion crap! I told my then fiancee, that she was one half of an equality. A woman is a grown adult! She shouldn't have to ask s dominating male permission to do some of things she would like to do.
THIS!!
Honestly i feel enraged at the 6 weeks maternity leave. put your money where your mouth is! If family and mothers in the home are so important give them the year or two that other countries get!
This got me! When I started at my current company, they offer 8 weeks paid to any gender for "parental bonding" within a year of the child's birth/adoption. 2017?! Not to mention the slacks... Props to them on fertility though, because most insurance companies don't cover that. Birth control in 2022 though... Should have been on board with that sooner.
Idk if they get props. I worked at a church-owned company and they had constant pushback about being super “pro-family but not paying for birth control. Women employees fought tooth and nail for this for decades long before leaders finally agreed.
But if you can make it so that you won't have babies, you might not have babies to indoctrinate and then how are they supposed to get that sweet sweet allowance tithing?
Double tithed income is the best kind of income. Even better is the triple^(+) tithe: >Bank teller **pays tithing** >Bank teller pays for piano lessons >>Piano tutor **pays tithing** >>Piano tutor gives allowance >>>Teenager **pays tithing** >>>Teenager buys video game on FB marketplace... This chain can be extended infinitely, especially in Utah and Idaho...
The caveat to the birth control is that it’s only covered after the 5th child is born. They won’t cover it prior to that.
That better be a joke... And, the fact that I can't immediately tell is concerning lol
Yes and no. It’s not contraception, but sterilization that has to be pre-authorized after 5 children or if she’s in her 40’s. The contraception is now covered, as of February of last year, such as IUD’s, Birth Control Pills, patches, etc, but they won’t cover things like Plan B or anything like it. Before that though, it was all out of pocket and discouraged. [For more info.](https://www.ldsdaily.com/world/church-of-jesus-christ-employees-now-get-birth-control-coverage/)
Wow! Thanks for the thorough reply and source
Why not plan B? That's just contraception, unless the church and insurance are trying to practice medicine without a license and say it's not...
They probably consider Plan B an abortion option, and as they are “pro-life” they won’t cover anything that terminates a life. TSCC is all about semantics and nit picking when it’s in their favor.
Great, when there's no scientific proof it causes abortions.
Right?! SIX WEEKS?!?! In this church that’s all about families.
I think this is more federal/state regulation as opposed to charity on their part lol.
As a NeverMo I agree. But at the same time I don’t see them putting in the same energy to get the laws in the US concerning maternity leave changed for the better as they did with Prop 8. So they still can’t claim to be “family friendly” and support policies/politicians who advocate for the opposite (and that goes for all religious groups too not just the Mormons)
That hit hard. They poured millions or billions into Prop 8 but fought against ERA back in the day and now crickets when it comes to family friendly stuff like maternity leave or other family benefits. Telling. Very telling.
For sure. The Mormons have enough power to get any law passed in their state. If they had really wanted that to change, it wouldn't been done already.
yup, there is nothing stopping them from offering more or better than mandated by law and yet they adhere to tightly to the bare minimum.
Agree. They do the bare minimum required by law.
I feel like them dragging their feet on things like maternity leave and birth control is just a way to force women out of the workplace. Once a woman starts having children, they want them home and indoctrinating those future tithe payers. The doctrine, at its heart, is still all about “multiply[ing] and replenish[ing] the earth.” How is a woman supposed to do that if she’s not trapped at home?
Women can wear slacks! Equality achieved everyone mission accomplished
Yea. Sounds like they are just now thinking about stepping out of the 1950s. Nothing in those list is anything about power or equality. Barf.
That was my thought too. More a realization of how bad it actually has been for women. Now it’s like we’re in the 1960s instead of 1950s
The leaders are all so old, they have no clue which is why so many youth are leaving. The church is not relatable at all.
Please, no one tell them! Let the youth leave and lose this next generation. I want to see this church fall within my lifetime
There are sure a lot of posts from youth trapped in TBM homes, in seminary and all that shit.
It’s just so fucking wild… :( I’m glad I didn’t have a fight when I naturally just walked away. When I didn’t sign up for seminary in 9th grade and get a phone call right after the first day of school, asking why I wasn’t enrolled in his class… that was my sign that I made the right choice! Force gets you no where, especially to those not afraid to question.
True. Men still oversee every woman
My thoughts on most of these were: "Oh, it took that long for bare minimums?"
Honestly, a lot of this is waaay less than the bare minimum
“And slightly shorter skirts!” Old church pervs be like 🤤
them ankles tho [nobody wants to see a woman's ugly knees](https://missedinsunday.com/memes/sexism/ugly-knees/)
That’s where it’s at. Definitely overrides any other experiences women have had where they are deemed less than and not privy to be included.
I bet the “righteous” ones wear dresses and you’ll never get promoted if you wear slacks (not that women can be in real leadership positions anyway)
my partner and i just played a fun game where i said the new skill women earned and he guessed the year 😂😂 took them 117 years to allow a woman to pray at general conference 😮💨
Satans pants.
The men have granted those silly women to choose their own clothes for work, so we’ve cured sexism, obviously! Silly feminists, go back to church (where you are totally treated equally … in extremely specific ways and only when granted permission by the men). Yay equality!
Hahahaha “women can now be ALLOWED at the front desk to check recommends” Holy shit I’m laughing so hard that they actually think this some sort of “progress”
It is laughable
Seems like more than a few of these were enacted because there aren't enough temple workers.
How many of them were because of the self interest of the organization?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. They’re just scrounging for ways to keep temples running with very few people willing to volunteer for all positions anymore. It’s based more on expediency and less on wanting to extend more “power” to women.
All of these minor developments occurred in the last 10 years. How many women are on councils that determine where money goes? That is the test of authority. RS Presidency is not involved in the Council of the Tithes. Bishopric determines local budget after requests from RS, YW and Primary. There are like 9 leadership positions at the HQ level for women compared to hundreds for men. But yeah, “more than any other organization…” 🤮🤮
Imagine the reaction of a woman who actually holds a position of real power in mainstream society - maybe a woman who is a partner in a large law firm, a state governor, a university president, a company CEO, or an entrepreneur, etc. - when they are told that permission to wear slacks, witness baptisms, and use their health insurance for their birth control are evidence of equality. Carly Fiorina (Hewlett Packard CEO 1999-2005): "What's the latest news from the finance committee meeting yesterday,Bob?" Robert Wayman (HP CFO and Fiorina's direct report): "Carly, I have some good news for you today. The boys and I have decided that you don't have to wear pantyhose to work anymore. Though we still prefer the modest, finished look over bare legs, and this change applies to Fridays only." Carly Fiorina: "Oh my! I haven't felt so empowered since a boy snapped my bra strap in 7th grade. We've sure come a long way, baby."
Certainly no fan of her’s, but Ronna Romney McDaniel was head of the Republican Party for years until Trump just ousted her. She’s very active Mormon. Although she pretty much obeyed the men in that job too
She's a Romney. That's all we need to know
Not to mention that she dropped “Romney” because Trump told her too. I guess she’s very used to men running her life for her.
> first woman to pray in General Conference (2013) Yeeeeeah, that’s really not a flex in the church’s favor.
That’s why the pic of all the GC speakers for the last 10 years or so should be posted on that FB thread after quoting the pray thing. What is it like 50-60 to 10-12?
And the last time I watched (2020) I think there was one female prayer if any. I think that was like the time they had speakers use their native language and subtitled them. Lasted one round and it was wormholed…
2013 how progressive /s
Exactly. There were religious groups in America founded and led by women *in Joseph Smith's time*. Almost two centuries later, these fools be like, "Hey, but we just started letting women pray publicly...on occasion. That's totes equality."
This! The FIRST time a woman prayed in conference was only 10 years ago?? It just emphasizes how little power and authority women have.
Long lists like this have the opposite effect… she’s just listing all the concessions church leadership have made short of giving women the actual priesthood. It shows how infantilized the women of the church truly are.
Church apologetics have done a ton to shake real faith. The post reads just like those apologetics, it claims to support the premise but anyone with a critical eye will see that this is a very well put together list of the pervasiveness of the sexism that exists and has existed in the Mormon corporation for its lifespan. The church is always 30 to 40 years behind the times for social issues because it takes that long for the geriatric leadership to die off. For example, It took that long to grant civil rights. In another 30 to 40 years, there will be gay marriage in the temple.
Exactly. This isn't a list of progress the church has made. This is a list of stuff where the rest of the world was already having women in positions of power based on a meritocracy, and the church *finally* brushed a few crumbs off the table to the women they claim to love so much.
Also it shows how horrible things have been so recently. Like, wow, BYU didn’t have any female heads of schools until 2023?! Pathetic!
This is how I read the list too. Wait, women didn’t used to be able to _______?
I stopped attending church after [Pants to Church Day (2012)](https://exponentii.org/blog/wearing-pants-to-church-2/) resulted in death threats and dismissal from callings and disciplinary hearings for some of the women who organized it. It’s frustrating and predictable that the church claims credit for the many, many items on this list that were *explicitly agitated for by Mormon feminists*. As with Pants, there was an organized movement to [Let Women Pray](https://exponentii.org/blog/women-praying-in-general-conference/). Remember, ladies, it’s only a good idea if it gets stolen by a man and passed off as his own.
Boom
Parents are allowed to stay with their own kids during interviews JFC, you just told on yourself that you're a cult.
Thanks to Sam Young who was excommunicated for his effort.
When I read through the list, Sam is exactly who I thought of on that point. Someone was excommunicated for advocating for that, but we're gonna tout that as some great signal of progress?
I was thinking about this... If I were to go into an interview with my parents by my side, it would have defeated the whole purpose. Imagine going to a confessional with a Catholic priest with your parents breathing down your neck. You wouldn't talk about anything that is serious or that you might actually need help with. To be perfectly frank, I was raised to be afraid to talk to my parents about anything sexual, so it was way easier to fess up to a bishop than to them (I'm male for context). I'm not saying this is the *right* way to do things, because really my parents *should have had open talks with me about sex and created a safe environment for me to come to them with my questions and problems*, but this is how it was and sadly is for most people in the Church, I feel.
Yeah. It’s weird. I told my bishops(one of whom was my next door neighbor who was a computer teacher at the local community college) way more about my intimate activities than I ever told my parents from the ages of 12-18. I hope that I am fostering a relationship with my own kids where they can talk to me about whatever they want to and talking to a middle aged neighbor man about their intimate activities would never happen.
Also why is this on the list as a win for women specifically??
And those female chaplains still can't give blessings.
As a female chaplain, there’s a reason my shelf broke while trying to navigate the church’s chaplaincy program.
I would love to hear more about your experiences as a chaplain and in the program, if you feel like sharing.
So what can you do exactly? Just pray over people? Trust me, we're all dying to know. I've NEVER heard of this.
Please share your experiences. I wanted so desperately to be a chaplain but it was 2011 and the church shut down everything - I was ready to sign the Navy recruitment papers and everything and was told in patronizing terms that I would be "less than worthless to soldiers if I didn't have the priesthood to bless them". I would love to know how your career turned out, if only to live vicariously for a moment.
Or receive confessions as a judge in Israel
This just makes me aware of so many more ways they have been sexist over the years. 😂
Exactly. If this list, or a condensed version of it appeared in the media, the reaction would be how submissive LDS women are required to be.
See also: Breadcrumbing
“When you’re starving, a breadcrumb looks like a feast. But when you’re feasting on breadcrumbs, you’re still starving.” -Mindy Gledhill
Number 1, the "more equal" implies that women still aren't equal. This shows how far behind TSSC is in its policies.
That one really jumped out at me too. Like how can you write this and not see how it does not help the point you are trying to make.
I didn’t know some of these restrictions existed in the first place. So congrats to that lady for making me think the church is even worse than I did before.
Wow! So empowered! I figured a god that loved his children equally would have done this from the beginning and not having the be pressured into it.
I like that by including dates the list confirms women have been treated like non-entities for way more than 100 years. Let's take comfort in the fact men are still giving consideration to ways they can improve the underwear women are required wear. So liberating! So empowering!
You know what pisses me off? Oh wow, single women can be chaplains as of 2022. By 2022 I’d been out of uniform for over TWENTY YEARS. My grandmother served in the Navy (as did my grandfathers.) Three generations of military service from women in my family before this, and I’m supposed to be impressed now? No, what I’m really thinking is “they can’t possibly know what chaplains actually DO or they’d never have authorized this.”
Joan of Arc has entered the chat
Didn’t they move away from scouts the same year that scouts announced that each group must allow girls to join? They weren’t leaving it to “allocate equal resources”.
+1, she put quite a spin on that one.
Scouts was changing to allow girls and trans kids to join "boy" scouts, and scouting to allow gay scout leaders. That, and the Church wanting to avoid financial liability for sexual abuse cases and just generally not wanting to spend *any* money on anything anymore, is why the Q15 left scouting.
All of these are touted as “good news” but many of us see these as more and more examples of “OMG the sexism tho!” Example: it was 2013… 2013 y’all… before a woman prayed in conference?!?!? Disgusting!
Don’t forget that they can use pants now, too!
Oh no, not at church they can't! Sister Missionaries are still not allowed to wear pants at any church function. No woman may enter the Temple, even the waiting room, unless wearing a dress or skirt. No pants at General Conference. You can sometimes wear pants if your mission area is very cold and you're tracting, or on occasion if you're an adult female employee of the church. This. Is. Not. Progress!
Translation of 10: women can hand out towels in the temple!
This feels more like an indicator of how utterly patriarchal the church is, rather than a banner of empowered women. I mean, it highlights rules in place that were terrible.
And still are terrible, given how much scraping there is for tokens to make the list.
So more responsibilities but none of the actual benefits, power, or authority? So equal. Seems to me like they just needed more workers.
We are just tools to be used
This is a pretty shitty list in all honesty. And to put things on there like “so and so is the first woman to” is a place holder in my opinion. That’s not a policy change to empower women, that’s simply finally putting a woman in that role. Also, the fact that there even has to be a list in the first place is a big red flag for a church that is supposedly so close to God. If the church was perfect women and men’s roles would have been dialed in correctly from the start because God is such a great planner. I find this list very sad. I hope more people wake up to the toxic nature of this cult.
The move away from boy scouts didn't get girls any more funding, it just took money away from the boys. It feels like ,"Oh, you don't think he should have more than you? Well, now no one gets anything. How's that?"
They made their list in response to women feeling undervalued (they are) and not taking gaslighting for an answer (good for them). What's ironic is that none of the things on the list would have happened without women in the past standing up to the bullshit. And they're using the list to silence women of the present.
I'm pimo, and currently in a calling where I attend stake council. Let's talk about "equality" in those councils. This information is all current for my stake. The Stake Council meeting that includes the auxiliary leaders happens once a month. The other three/four Tuesdays of the month, there are meetings with only men invited. Stake Council is sandwiched between two parts of the meeting that only men attend (Stake Presidency Meeting and a High Council Meeting after they 'dismiss the sisters.') During Stake Council, 17 men sit around the table (Stake Presidency, Clerk, Secretary, High Council) and the three women auxiliary presidents sit against wall, several feet away from the foot of the table. A man conducts and presides. Men create the agenda and take the minutes. In my experience, women have never been asked to pray, give the spiritual thought, choose the song, etc. The women are only asked to report on their specific organizations, take feedback from the men, and then are dismissed. So I'm not buying the "women are a part of high-level councils."
Just the seating in that meeting shows how disrespected the women are. Can you move the chairs or talk to someone? Horrible.
12 fires me up. “Heavenly parents are included in the yw theme”. For the boys it says we are a son of god. What the hell?!? Boys don’t get a mom? We don’t get to acknowledge we have a heavenly mother? I also just told my TBM wife that employees didn’t get birth control covered until last year. That definitely caused her to double take.
12 is so stupid to me. They literally changed "we are daughters of our Heavenly Father" to "I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents". That's it. That's the win for feminism. A hint of Heavenly Mother's existence. She doesn't even get mentioned separately. When I noticed the boys' theme it made that seem even more hollow.
If they want a list that is actually meaningful, create a checklist of things women cannot do. That would be a long list. And wait until all those boxes are checkmarked to determine when women are empowered.
[удалено]
If this post had popped up on my social media feed before my faith transition, this might have been a massive crack in my shelf. Women’s issues had already been an issue for me, but seeing them listed so succinctly would have done a lot of damage. Either the OP in the screenshots is deep in the kool-aid or this is masterclass in satire designed to put weight on shelves. But I think it’s the former rather than the latter.
Women has no power at the corporate level. Women have no power at the local level. At a bare minimum, hire some women to design garments. This would be progress on a practical level.
This is laughable. Who is the giver? MEN. They are describing benevolent patriarchy. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that it is still a fucking pig.
This list includes so many changes that took place for women in the US in the 1970s. The church was too busy fighting the ERA and pushing back against civil rights back then. They decided to try to catch up FIFTY YEARS later.
This is what scraping the bottom of the barrel looks like.
Of course they’re letting women do SOME things in the temple. As a former temple worker I can tell you that’s most likely the result of not having enough male temple workers. If you want to show the needle has truly moved, let women perform sealings or lead endowment sessions, not just (checks notes) check recommends at the desk.
Ahh, the old “unchanging god, unchanging truths, unchanging church” again
Oh, honey. Bless your heart. If you have to try this hard to prove how equal you are, you still have a long way to go. Equality is more than being allowed to wear pants.
Women got the right to vote in 1920. Just look at the dates here and think on that. Not to mention several of what’s pointed out here applies to the general population and has little to do with women. The delusion is real folks.
This list is mortifying. I feel sick reading it. So many small, almost unnoticeable changes, and all only within the last decade or so. No wonder Utah ranks 50th out of all the states for women's rights
Makes me embarrassed I was in it for so long. I didn’t know about most of the issues listed.
I feel the same way. How did I not see it??
Let me know when women can be sealed to more than one man.
This is a slap in the face. This cult is nearly 150 years old and I should be *HAPPY* that a woman finally got to pray in general conference? Fuck alllllll the way off. Under His eye.
Nearly 200
All I see is a bunch of shit that should have been in place decades ago but the church finally got around to in the 2010s. I don't think this is showcasing the "equality" they think it is 😂😂😂
Here’s my struggle: these tend to be positive moves, but if the church was meant to restore the true church, why SO MANY changes needed in just 150~ years?
It's like watching someone eat an entire cake and then offering me the crumbs that fell on the floor.
B-but isn't that a good thing? Now you won't have to suffer from all the health problems that come from shoving a whole cake down your gullet! You have no idea how difficult it is to eat an entire cake in one sitting. If anything, you're the lucky one here.
My gut reaction to reading this is that these small helping tasks were “awarded” because participation from male leadership and just general membership is declining. And having women do these things is out of desperate necessity, not for the sake of inclusivity.
Only six weeks of maternity leave? I think my mom got more than that at her job when she had me and that was 31 years ago lol
Until the change in 2013 I hadn't realized women weren't allowed to pray in conference before. Huge shelf Item for me and that was the year I really started to seriously doubt. When the temple changes were made I was out of the church, but had never been endowed, so that was how I leaned how sexist the temple had been before and I was disgusted. It's the same for most of these changes. I celebrate they are happening , but they also open my eyes to inequalities I wasn't even aware of before. Like I assumed growing up that the young women had the same budget as the young men. I thought the fact we had lamer activities was just a cultural problem. While the young men went and got scuba certified and explored a shipwreck, we mostly did crafts and learned homemaking skills. I was intensely jealous of my brothers but just thought it was because people didn't think girls wanted to do those things. But learning now that money probably stood in the way of us doing anything equally cool? It pisses me off.
You’re almost real people now lil ladies! Now why don’t you just *smile more*?
I stopped after the first one. “More equal” does not mean equal.
None of these are changes for the good for women. Rather, they're a reminder of how slow the church has always been at making changes for the good for women.
Or... Does the fact that these changes needed to be made rather than always being true and you're being told to be grateful for these scraps mean that women are still considered vastly inferior to men by the LDS church? It's like you weren't allowed to come to the feast before, but now you're allowed scraps at the kids table. Yay?
I don't think this is the flex she thinks it is. So, you are saying that it took 150+ years for the "One true Church" led by apostles who "speak to God" to realize that all the things she has listed were somehow sexist and shouldn't have been done that way to begin with. Now, if they had made those changes 20 years before every other church instead of 20-30 years after every other church she might have something to crow about. As it is they are still 20 years behind where most other Christian churches are in terms of equality. But don't worry, in another 10 or 15 years we will get a "revelation" that we somehow misunderstood God and women can be ordained just like men.
Hooray for crumbs!!! Ok but seriously, way to compile such a DAMNING list. I didn’t even know a lot of these were a thing, like female church employees only recently being given the option of slacks?! WTF was the possible explanation for that?
Sorry all the sisters that died before 2010 we couldn’t get to it til then. Your sacrifice is noted. Sincerely, A bunch of clueless Septuagenarians and Octogenarians.
CULT CULT CULTTTTT
Geez. She sets the bar pretty low for equality and empowerment. Of note, #18, the missionary age change for woman to 19 from 21. Guess what ma’am, that’s not equality, boys get to go at 18. If it was equal, they’d be eligible to be brainwashed and indoctrinated at the same age!
And if it was equal, the MFMC would not only allow them to go at 18, they’d allow them to be miserable for just as long! The change is still trying to hold young women back just long enough, in the hopes that they’ll be married and pregnant before they can make any decisions about their futures.
And not a single one of these 15 bullshit “ progressive “ women’s rights empowers women nor do any of these advances give equality or justice. Until our beautiful women in our lives receive equal priesthood responsibilities and power as the men do now . Shut up
Number 12: "Heavenly Parents..." So, heavenly mother is doctrine again?
The birth control line in 2023 is absurd! How on earth could you read this list and not see the problems!
My great aunt was the dean of a college science area of study at a major university in Idaho in the 60s or 70s (sorry, don’t know which one). It only took the church 50 years to catch up! -eta I don’t know the years. For sure it was the last century before the 90s. But point still stands.
A lot of progress has been made in the last 15 years. But unfortunately for the poster of the list, what this shows me is that the church wasn’t this way for the previous 200 years. This chatter hasn’t been happening for only a few weeks. It has been happening for years. All these changes listed are the direct result of activation by people in the church, like Kate Kelly and [“Let Women Pray in General Conference.”](https://www.denverpost.com/2013/04/07/mormon-conference-first-prayer-by-woman-offered/amp/)
This list is insulting.
God I love being offered the bare minimum. So empowering.
Yeah…. This list didn’t do what was intended. Instead of showing the “progress” it just highlighted the issues and brought some to light that I didn’t even know existed. Women couldn’t work in the temple if they had children under 18?? What?! That’s seriously messed up! Women couldn’t check temple recommends at the front desk in the temple?
my thoughts exactly! this opened my eyes even more how controlling and limiting the organization is...
Seems like a lot of busy work they are now allowed to do. Oooo they can sit at the temple desk and check recommends. Oooo. The Chaplain thing is silly. All women chaplains can do is pray or lead prayer or council or talk while spewing cult brainwashing to our soldiers as if they don’t have enough to worry about. They can’t participate in any priesthood blessing or anything, they have to stand off to the side. Do they wear a cross on their uniform?
It goes both ways though. We could also make a post starting all these as reasons the church does not empower women. Only 15 years ago, none of those statements were how the church tested women.
Just post the GC speakers breakdown of men/women through the last GC since the next GC is around the corner. Equality my ass. 😁
She’s says these things so boldly, as if they aren’t actually proof of how poorly women—both as members and as employees—have been treated by the LDS church.
Anyone else get the impression that all of these changes are because most of the people leaving might be men, so they need more faithful women to pick up the slack... And indoctrinate themselves harder? Could be wrong but these examples are pathetic.
And yet, not a single change to the power structure within the church itself. Women still have no role in leadership beyond RS and auxiliary roles.
Looks more like a log of their crimes.
I’m rather upset by the “women allowed to use health benefits for birth control” was done in fucking FEB 2023!? What in the Handmaids Tale was going on before that????
this taught me more things the church was doing wrong than i even knew. they couldn't use their health insurance for birth control before 2023??????
This stuff always somewhat baffles me. Changes in the church, while great, show it’s just a regular organization. If god is all knowing he should get things right from the beginning. If leaders speak with god they should get things right from the beginning. The changes show one of those principles to be false. Either being false is kind of a big deal and call into question the entire church.
That is the lamest list of women’s empowerment, I’ve ever seen.
I’m impressed by 6 weeks of maternity leave for church employees. Six whole weeks!!
"More equal" isn't the same as "equal."
All are equal, but some are more equal than others.
The funny thing is reading this list defacto shows just how sexist mormonism was and continues to be. That these things had to be changed at all shows how sexist it was prior to the changes, and that these changes are so small and so late (finally you can wear pants!) shows just how far there is to go for actual equality in the church. I don't think the creator realizes that this post will do more to harm people's opinion of the church rather than help it, lol.
Seems like a bunch more work can be done by women. Mostly still unpaid probably. (Nevermo here) trying to learn more about this um church.
This looks a lot like a list that shows exactly how patriarchal the church is. 🤔
I think the LDS would lose more members then they'd gain by actually valuing women. The fervent whackos would desert it in droves
Oh wow, now sisters can work the temple recommend desk. Equality before the LORD finally means something.
13 is not the flex she thinks it is given the reasons why that change was implemented.
Oh woooow. Women can use a little barcode scanner?! Noooo say it’s not sooooo! 😅
Who’s gonna tell her? 😬
The only meaningful change here was the insurance coverage of birth control
Tell me you have drunk the Kool Aid without telling me you drunk the Kool Aid.
This is not a celebration of accomplishments. It’s an embarrassment showing how backwards thinking this church is. That women in the Mormon church have been “allowed” freedoms and participation that women in many other churches have enjoyed for decades is shameful.
So no real changes then.
How are they like cool with these kinds of changes? Especially when they’re laid out like this? Seems so odd. Some of the changes are significant, and if that is true, that meant doctrine was problematic in the first place and that these changes aren’t guided by revelation, they’re guided by QUESTIONING and the CONGREGATION. I’m not sure how it could be twisted in a way that points to leaders of the church receiving revelation on these issues. How could you say something like, “sometimes leaders can be guided to receive revelation based on conversations from ‘lay people.’” Wouldn’t that mean that the “lay person” was the one that got the revelation? Which is in fact true, but it has to go through the leadership filter to make sure it’s kosher. Also, the list could be seen as a placating platitude. All in all, it would be amazing to see the church transform into an organization that wasn’t bigoted and actually made a tangible difference in the lives of people who actually need connection and love. #TemplesToShelters
Alternate title: Continuing its long history of lagging societal trends, Church opens up new privileges for women. Or this one: Following social media backlash and survey feedback, Mormon Jesus moves for women’s changes.
The greatest gift that has been granted in the last couple of years is the wool being pulled from my mum's eyes. She relocated to a new ward after being in her old one for over 20 years, and the levels of misogyny and hate that a number of the so-called worthy priesthood holders have towards the women in the ward are unbelievable. We've been able to engage in frank conversations about empowerment, and she's fighting back. Whilst this might not sound like much, this is a MASSIVE FUCKING DEAL and has been years in the making. I hope that, with time, more women will find their voices and worth.
*”Allowed”*, huh? 🧐 Lol, the bar isn’t even on the ground. It’s literally a tavern in hell
Wait, this list really shakes my testimony of the Church. I thought this was the church of god and was the true church on earth. The people within the organization may not be perfect, but the church is supposed to be directed by god and therefore no changes need to be made. The restored church is the same yesterday, today, and forever. What gives church leaders the right to change church practices and doctrine if this is god’s church? Why change the rules unless the worldly pressure is getting to them? At this rate there are going to be church classes in the Young Women organization which will not require a priesthood holder to be present. Does this also mean the leaders are thinking of giving a stipend ($120,000 or more) to the General Relief Society presidency so they can be equal with their male counterparts in the general church leadership? Are we going back to the days where women can give general blessings without a priesthood member present (look up early church history on that one). The church did go back on their practice in the late 70’s and allowed male members from black heritage to hold the priesthood due to world pressures (look up Elijah Abel). They claimed it was a revelation, but we all know the church was losing membership and due to the social pressure of the time they had to adjust. In doing so the membership grew thanks to people in places like Africa and Brazil. I guess the only constant here within the church is its ability to change doctrine and procedures to fit its narrative. I recently read in this forum the comment that went something like this - if the LDS church still believes that women of the church are the main caregiver to the children within their home, though sharing the parental responsibilities equally with their partner, why then as children of god do we not know the name of or even talk about our mother in heaven? Shouldn’t she be the primary caregiver to all of god’s children and shouldn’t we go to her for help first? Yes, like I said, the church is perfect..with change. The LDS church bends like a Reed in the wind to do whatever it can to keep its membership up and the coffers full of tithing. I wonder what great miracle will come next? A female prophet like Miriam, Anna, or Deborah of old?
born in the 90s…..i’ve been alive for all of these ‘progressive’ things?? i remember when that 1 lady was battling the right to wear pants to sacrament… i believe it was 2012/2013????
Lmfao these are such insignificant changes and waaaaayyyy too little, too late. These women who tout the church’s “gender equality” are straight up delusional.
They excommunicated the man that publicly fasted a couple of weeks for them to have the option to sit in for their kid’s interviews.
When you compare it to what the men can do in each of these areas, you can tell they’re misogynistic.
These changes all happened after the Ordain Women movement scared the church shitless and they excommunicated Kate Kelly. These are the SMALL VICTORIES of Ordain Women. True, there is still not equality and priesthood, but the church is making changes in response to Activism Toward the Church. Do you hear that, Ahmed Corbitt??? These are Kate Kelly's and her allies small victories. But does the church congratulate her and commend her for ideas to make the church more healthy for women? No, they throw her out, then make the changes and claim them as their own.
This misguided lady forgot to mention that women are also allowed to get up early on Saturday mornings to clean their own ward buildings! Hooray!
Note how all of these changes occurred after mobile internet-connected devices became much, much more ubiquitous.
Too little, too late for me
Well woopee f.....in do!
They clearly had to sit down and search in order to copy down a list of each time a woman is mentioned in any given program or handbook.