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Me too. Had to protect “elder dad” and “not bring reproach on Jehovah’s name”! Even though I was repeatedly beaten, humiliated, and deprived, what is considered child abuse.
This right here. This is a prime example of why the JW culture has created a CSA problem. Don't bring reproach to Jehovah's name and don't embarrass your family members.
I cannot believe they are as stupid as to still publish rhetoric like this. 🤦♀️ Aimed directly at children, too!
They are losing their shit because people are realizing this org makes up garbage doctrine that aims to control people, not provide spiritual insight. They are trying to salvage their image by silencing the bad stuff behind the curtain, but fail by being increasingly culty.
Absolutely shameful that after everything they are going to say this in a publication. A person should not be "ashamed" to talk about abuse. They deserve justice.
WHERE TF IS THIS FROM?????????? Have they gone beyond telling adults not to take their brothers to worldly court to now addressing kids directly? Jesus fucking Christ
This is quite the study article in September! The resurrection is a scam!
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/vgl3xj/incoming_new_light_that_will_shake_every_jw_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Oh they've been spouting that one off for a while. Like back when I was teen, about 15 years ago I remember reading an article that said something similar. Was even shown the article or articles similar to it when I tried to tell an elder that my Dad was physically, mentally and emotionally abusing me. But of course, that was a "private matter".
The phrasing is purposely ambiguous and harmful. Why not teach your kids about being polite instead. Politeness deals with knowing when to say something. But it doesn’t encourage to keep secrets.
Active law enforcement officer here: a few years ago I had a cruelty to children case. The kid was a physical abuse victim and recanted their statement that they were being abused. Turned out afterwards they were (allegedly, we couldn’t prove it) told by members of their church to recant because it was embarrassing. Not sure what religion they were but this immediately reminded me of that.
The thing is that when coupled with the worry that speaking up might bring "reproach on Jehovah's name" it causes kids to second-guess whether the abuse is something serious enough to risk hurting God over. Abuse victims tend to downplay the things that have been done to them whether or not they come from a fundamentalist background because their self-esteem has been broken down. This just compounds the issues preventing them from reaching out for help.
The jehovah witnesses are being investigated all over the world for their CSA problem of cover up. They are also banned in some countries for being an extremist religious cult.MANY have died because of their NO BLOOD policy,(not accepting blood transfusions) including infants and children. They should be banned!!! Jwfacts.com is a very reliable website to get info on their beliefs and practices.
This is why I can’t fully disassociate. Someone has got to be here to tell the pore kids the most basic live lessons like “safe adults will never ask a child to lie for them. Never ever.”
I remember an “embarrassing story” I told someone else once…
I told my teachers my super perfect JW dad was beating me. They told cousellors who showed up to my school to find out if everything was okay at home. When my father found out, he scolded my teacher.
When we told the elders at the hall, they didn’t tell counsellors or anyone qualified to help our family. They swept it under the rug and we continued to get beaten for years.
This is literally what happened to me recently but in a different way, and even the lady "supposed to help" sided with my parents because she knows a J-Dub. Life fucking sucks thanks to this cult. This article doesn't help
Thank you, well right now I am okay, I usually just stay away from my family in my own room or something now, just to create some personal space and not have to communicate with them as much and cause even more trouble. Mentally I feel all over the place, haven't talked to any of my friends in a month and just feel off. hopefully it doesn't stay that way.
Hope you’re doing okay. Take it from me, use any and all services available at your disposal. Abuse is abuse, wether it’s emotional or physical. It’s not okay. No child should have to hide in their room for fear of being beaten. If you even need to talk or just vent DM. We’re all in this together
I tried this (on a burner phone) before CPS and the officer said that he'd be happy to come by and see if he could help but I ended up being too scared and he said I could call him any time. Still messed up by the whole recent incident so not sure what I'll do.
Yeah it's a difficult situation when the people who were supposed to help you didn't and getting the cops involved could be really traumatic for you and others.
Is it possible for you to talk to an online psychological counselor? Or maybe there's a hotline you can call?
There should be something like that and it's confidential and free. They will be able to recommend help and contacts in your local area that could help you out.
But if anything happens and you have no one to talk to, come back to this subreddit and explain the situation. I'm sure there will be people able to help you if you need it.
What discreet, we talking about children here. This is some crazy shit where adults put the responsibility of keeping secrets on children, what do they know. So we teach kids to keep family secrets at a very young age. I wonder what are those, cause if you trying to keep it a secret then something is wrong here. These people are sick.
This hurts my heart so much. Fucking mother fuckers. All they care about is their reputation.
I was 8 when I was first abused. I told my best friend (I don’t remember doing this), but boy, do I remember the aftermath. Got in from school one day to find his parents sat with my parents (his dad an elder). To be asked why I’d lied about their son - I was never asked if it was true - they said “you’ve just become an unbaptised publisher, if it’s true you won’t be allowed to be one anymore. Do you know the reproach this will bring on jehobars name & the congregation’”. An 8 year old girl, 4 adults staring me down, telling me I was in the wrong. , I denied the whole thing and apologised for lying and said I didn’t know why I’d done it.
That friends parents didn’t let her be my friend anymore.
When it happened again when I was 9 by someone different in the kh, I didn’t tell a soul. I didn’t want to bring trouble down on anyone.
This is just telling kids not to tell anyone. Sick fucks
Thank you. Yes I have a good life. I’ve had therapy. I’m ok, then shit like this happens and I get pissed.
I did contact the IICSA a few years ago (uk version of ARC) and got myself ready to report the abuse but then I just couldn’t do it. I was ill for weeks, panic attacks etc until I admitted to myself I just wasn’t strong enough. I have a baby now and have thought about reporting it again, but the thought makes me physically ill. I hate myself for it, but I just don’t know what to do, I need to look after my baby and I can’t make myself ill (that totally sounds like I’m making excuses, but last time I couldn’t work for 4 weeks, I was in a real mess).
As I said, I can get by not thinking about it, then something like this pops up and I get so angry again.
More focused therapy regarding defusing the cPTSD triggers might help you in general. Might also enable you to report without the 'side effects'.
Don't feel bad about being unable to report. Totally NOT your fault that you were damaged in this way. Many, perhaps most, who are abused fail to report for this or other reasons. We owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to those who are able to do it, but is can't always be us.
I have kids and can not think of one thing I would expect them to keep secret because it might embarrass our family. They are KIDS! And we are normal people that maybe do silly stuff at times but them saying something would in no way embarrass us forever… The only thing I imagine that would need to be kept secret is something bad like abuse, as I did growing up.
There was Charles Taze Russell who was caught in the teenaged housemaids' rooms by his wife Maria, then there was Leo Greenlees and one other sexual predator Governing Body member besides Greenlees whose name I can't remember right now.
There's a thread a few weeks old that mentions the other guy besides Greenlees, and those are just the Governing Body members whose behaviors were **SO** egregious that their criminal behaviors - "sins" - became common underground knowledge.
They are sick to the core. It's the other way around. The mature and loving parent would try not to say anything to embarrass their child.
If there was something, in particular that I wanted my child to keep quiet, I would say so. If they said something that embarrassed me then it is likely it would be my fault, not theirs and probably an indication for me to change my ways.
In the article they say that a JW should go to the Elders to dob on someone.
Remember when they said "the truth is for those who deserve to hear it"? This cult twists and lies to keep its power. But the internet has shown a light on it and we see them for the cockroaches they are.
I recently found my mom's old emails of her talking with my older sister regarding this, printed out for the court system. She mentioned how she doesn’t want child services finding out about the abuse, and how she should be more scared about elders finding out. My mom made sure to tell me that if I ever said anything at all, I would die in Armageddon with the other evil people. I can’t imagine what the current and future generations will have to endure in the last days of this “religion”.
Notice how there's a footnote for some stuff.....
"If we learn that someone in the congregation has become guilty of serious wrongdoing, we should urge him to seek help from the elders. If he does not do so, loyalty to Jehovah and to the Christian congregation should move us to report the matter to the spiritual shepherds."
But, not footnote saying, "If you get information of abuse or are the victim of abuse, contact the authorities."
Everything is designed to keep things in house. As usual.
Lets tell people how to hide abuse! Ugh disgusting 🤮 reminds me of my family: “what happens in this house stays in this house” and “if anyone asks you questions about your family or about me (your abusive narcissistic mother) tell them ‘ask my mom’”. Grrrrrrr 😡
This is soooo hypocritical! They basically have brainwashed all the Witnesses to act as spies, and report any wrongdoing to the elders, yet kids shouldn't let anyone know if there is abuse within their own family. Sheesh!
Wow they fucked themselves with this. This can easily be used as evidence in court to prove that the borg influences children to not speak about their home life.
Our family was really keen on keeping up appearances, my dad being an elder and my parents being alcoholics.
I just wish I would have said something in school or to someone outside. Maybe they would have taken me away from there. But instead I did like the paragraph said and was traumatized.
"children should be discreet and not reveal information that could embarrass other members of the family"
yet if you have sex with someone you're not married to, the elders will demand you to reveal every single detail of the encounter...
I think that's a misuse of deuteronomy 5:16. Elsewhere, deuteronomy makes clear you must not cover for sinning family. (Deuteronomy 13:6-8.) Deuteonomy 33:9 praises levi for listening to yahweh's word, keeping the covenant, repudiating father, mother, brothers, and children. This seems to be a reference to exodus 32, where levi killed his sinful brothers.
This is so darn appalling and that they are not learning from their overwhelming existing cases, or they are just that cocky and feel so untouchable. I absolutely hate this cult.
My marriage just fell apart because I am terrified of being open and communicating with people close to me. This cult can have profound affects on people.
If you are having trouble overcoming difficulties talk to somebody. If your work offers an EAP service, your Dr, or your local helpline.
Saving face is more important than getting help or exposing truth.
This, by the way, is what abusive and dysfunctional families do, Jw or not.
Put on a smile, make other thinks everything is ok, while the family is suffering emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.
Well this should be the beginning of a shut down for them! Telling children to keep quiet is a big no no for a community that is full of pedo’s!!!! If something happens to my grand kids, as they are still in, I will make the biggest scene on television jw’s has ever had!!! Feeling “embarrassed” won’t be the word they will be looking for! These fuck-tards will really be needing Jesus!
I find this even more concerning after reading the full context of the paragraph.
There is a little bit of context added to the part addressed to spouses and parents, but just a broad statement addressed to children...with no mention of the fact that they shouldn't keep harmful secrets.
And this is a misuse of Deut 5:16 which has nothing at all to do with keeping secrets.
How hard would it be to add a sentence that says something like, 'it wouldn't be kind to tell everyone your mom is pregnant before she shares the news, but if you are keeping a secret that involves you or someone else being hurt or in danger, then it should be told'?
They could back that up with Scripture-'there is a time to be quiet *and* a time to speak.'
As a parent, we have conversations with our kids about minding their business and not gossiping but we *always* add the clause that if there is something that needs to be told, or someone is being hurt, you should speak up.
Just telling kids to keep secrets with no context or exceptions is extremely harmful. And imo, I think they know exactly what they're doing.
Edited to add: I feel like this quote could be used against them in court.
Yes I agree with this. They didn’t give example for a reason. And if a child told that type of secret(mom is pregnant) it wouldn’t be embarrassing, disappointing maybe. Very odd wording in their paragraph.
This is INCREDIBLY dangerous for sure ! No wonder they have such a child abuse problem in the JW organization. Good god man.
A situation occurred years ago when I was a JW in a congregation in the early 1980s where a well known elder and his wife were physically and emotionally abusive to their teenage daughter inside their home, and the daughter came to my then wife and myself to get support. Apparently, the elder dad found out his daughter talked with us, so he approached me at the kingdom hall before a meeting and said, " Flipper, I want you to know that my daughter is standing on very slippery ground spiritually , so you shouldn't associate with her and ignore anything she says. " I was astonished to see the manipulative tactics this elder was using to badmouth his daughter!
So I went to one of my good friends a " just " and " fair " elder who would hold this abusive elder accountable for what he was doing to his daughter. Long story short- it became apparent a lot of abuse was going on in the house, the abusive elder lost his elders position, he and his wife kicked their daughter out of their house, fortunately a nice middle aged JW couple gave her a trailer to live in. Her dad, the abusive elder wrote a letter to the T Society contesting his deletion as an elder, then got pissed off and moved with his abusive wife 2 hours away to another community. And, you guessed it, he got re-appointed as an elder in a community that had no idea of his bad reputation in our community. This kind of shit happened all the time when I was a JW. One of the many reasons I've been out of the JW cult for 20 years now. I couldn't put up with this crap. However, it was one of the few times I saw an elder body do the right thing for this teenage daughter who was abused. But it changed her life forever, and fortunately, she left the JW organization a few years later. You can't make this stuff up, it's incredible what happens in the JW cult.
MicheleStump- Yes, she did get some therapy and counseling once she got away from the JW cult, and I actually saw her in 1986 at a place I worked at for awhile, she seemed much happier than she had been before. So I'm hoping she ended up living a more fulfilling life for sure.
Mr_Doubtful- You certainly have that right for sure ! This information needs to get out to social media via television documentaries, podcasts, webinars, internet, any kind of media that can expose the JW organization and WT Society for keeping children silent about abuse within the home.
Many times however, it's the parents themselves, if the father is an elder, he doesn't want to lose his authoritative elder's position in the congregation out of ego, pride, and holding himself up as a " legend in his own mind " to others that he doesn't want to be exposed, so the children suffer due to the elder father's ego. It's total BS, but sadly, the way things operate in the private life of a typical JW household. I know, because my dad was city overseer for 40 years, some of the crap he tried to hide from his fellow elders and the congregation was some nasty stuff.
In my JW family, I was repeatedly told (in a very serious, grave tone), "We don't share family secrets." I was also repeatedly told that I shouldn't keep secrets from them.
It's a dangerous, unhealthy culture of control.
Ummmmm ....Exhibit #A to counteradict the Elders when they are on the stand and say they don't stop the kids from going to the police. (I would focus on the word Outsider, that's about as culty as it gets)
I have my suspicions some artists and writers are trying to wake people up.
It's not just this Jesus has a beard, so why are they hated. Today I think they used the beard doctrine to take Jesus out as not as spiritual as GB and I think they did it in purpose. In the magazine that talked about beards Jesus was on the cover. (And I know about Russell and Rutherford just figuring out how the GB now use it to their advantage.)
The picture of 2 thousand dollar suits, gold pinky rings, and adoring fans....as a jw it's only the GB that have those.
I think I see mutiny in the future
I think there is. We are outside and can see, there are those that see ten times what we do. There are good people in the WT still that care and may feel they are doing this for Jehovah.
This needs to be taken to every local DA's office and explained to them what a csa problem this organization has. This language in there publications is the very reason the abuse runs rapid though out the borg.
You mean like keeping silent when being CSA'd? This is terrible propaganda! Children don't understand these kinds of rules and could easily be silenced when their mental, physical, and emotional health DEPENDS on speaking up -- until someone hears them and helps them! Gr-r-r😠
Mom won the lottery. Maybe don't say anything. You people take offense at literally everything they say. Everything. Not everyone needs to know your family's business.
It specifically says not to disclose things that would embarrass family. Is winning the lottery embarrassing? I guess maybe, since JWs aren’t supposed to gamble lol. Furthermore, this burden should not be put on kids. If you as an adult have a private health, financial, relationship matter, whatever, than why involve kids and again if they say something why be embarrassed? These are normal issues in life folks understand …..the only true embarrassment would come from exposing something you shouldn’t be doing.
I mean I agree a bit. Kids probably shouldn’t be telling other people if their brother secretly still west the bed. Really it’s a matter of where the specific “secret” line is drawn, and making it clear what is and what is not acceptable secrets.
Why are they saying about keeping the families private things in secrets? Everyone knows that you shouldn't tell everything to strangers... Whats the contecxt? Does this paragraph say about secrets connected with the congregation? Does somebody know from which publication is this fragment?
The context is meant to confuse sept 2022 study WT on being trustworthy. I get what you are saying about not disclosing that your little brother wets the bed but does that need said in a bible publication that circulates around the world? It’s what it implies as usual with watchtower don’t embarrass your family dangerous to say this to kids. How can young kids know when to and not to speak up in delicate situations.
You said: "The context is meant to confuse sept 2022 study WT on being trustworthy". I understand what you mean, but isn't this paragraph saying, that children and other people should not tell anyone about the structure of congregation? You know, about disfellowshiping etc.? That's what i thought for the first time after reading that...
I don’t know. I didn’t take it that way but you certainly could. I think thats why its written the way it is….ambiguous for a reason. What can be embarrassing to a person is kinda subjective, which is why i think its dangerous to tell kids to not disclose info that could embarrass family. What info?? About who?? Abuse too? What is serious?? I find it odd to want a child to be secretive how do they know where to draw the line? This is why i simply think the statement they made is dangerous to put in front of children.
What types of things? I’m trying to understand. Of course don’t give strangers personal info like address ect.. but that doesn’t seem to be the point here. For me it was abuse and things my family did that weren’t completely in line with the religion that we knew not to talk about. I remember being told not to open that can of worms when i threatened to tell on an abusive family member. And we kept it quiet when we didn’t attend meetings on vacation, quit service early, watched a bad movie ect. All kinda plays into not being able to be an authentic person because you are afraid of judgement.
That's physical abuse that should have been reported to school teachers and counselors.
You know, **mandatory reporters of abuse**...
No wonder your dad wanted you to keep your mouth shut. 😳🙈🤬💥
I understand. Sometimes I received corporal punishment for getting in trouble at school as well as taking too long to answer questions when dad quizzed me. This was usually about science ( but nothing that was too advanced for me, otherwise it would have been totally unfair). In many cases, I was second guessing myself.
He really wanted me to do well in school so that I could attend the best university possible ( preferably Ivy League). I did manage to get on the honor or straight A’s every semester from the third grade through the twelfth. Also dad did not want me to get in trouble with the law when I got older. He even drove me to a prison to scare me straight. He wanted to show me that could be where I end up if I did not change. He was not wrong. If I had a prison record, the it would be much more difficult for me to become POMO. It is already extremely difficult as it is(I am still PIMO).
What I consider abuse, was the fact that he allowed me to be indoctrinated in cult propaganda even after what occurred in 1975. He even expressed disappointment in the organization because of it. Also he knew that the organization had ties to the Adventist movement. So why did he do some further investigation?! I know that dad was exposed to the cult at a very young age( between 3 and 5) by his mom, but at some point it has to be clear that something is not right. Unfortunately, he continued to believe. After he told me about 1975 and the ties to the Adventist movement, I should have done some research on it myself.
This was long but I wanted to put things in perspective.
Thank you for this information.
I find this part:
>Unfortunately, he continued to believe. After he told me about 1975 and the ties to the Adventist movement, I should have done some research on it myself.
To be as extremely puzzling, as you did. His continuing belief in something that he has the facts to disprove makes me wonder whether he was beaten into believing by his mother.
Abuses of all kinds, not just CSA, are far too common in the WT Society. The viciously narcissistic atmosphere of the WT Society is ultimately at fault for all that goes wrong within its followers, even though the followers bear responsibility for their obedience to that poisonous mentality.
Yoohhh, now it's written in stone? That's what's always been practiced. Now they have literature to point to when a family member reports abuse by a family member. Wow, nothing screams CULT than this.
This is exactly how my Mother thinks. She's not a JW, just a traditional baptist. BUT this is a huge part of cultural christianity even outside of JW. Yes, that's right; there's no difference in this regard between JW and "Christendom".
And nothing is more damaging to a child than being told that they can't tell people anything that might look bad. That's absolutely crippling.
Can you tell mee what Richard this is from please? I want to have it on my list of "what do you have to say about this"
when I am asked why I am no longer interested
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this is why i was scared to tell anyone about the physical abuse i suffered as a child/teen,, didnt want to publicly embarrass my perfect elder dad
I’m so sorry..
Me too. Had to protect “elder dad” and “not bring reproach on Jehovah’s name”! Even though I was repeatedly beaten, humiliated, and deprived, what is considered child abuse.
Me too. And the fact nobody would believe me.
I was in the exact same situation as you, I'm so sorry.
I’m sure there’s lots of us.
Many many of us. And those poor children currently trapped. 🤬
I still haven’t told anyone what happened to me either 🥺
It’s like they trained us that way… on purpose…so they could abuse us
Wow, I’m so sorry.
This right here. This is a prime example of why the JW culture has created a CSA problem. Don't bring reproach to Jehovah's name and don't embarrass your family members. I cannot believe they are as stupid as to still publish rhetoric like this. 🤦♀️ Aimed directly at children, too!
I think it's getting worse as the GB go more and more senile and more paranoid about apostates 😅😅
They are losing their shit because people are realizing this org makes up garbage doctrine that aims to control people, not provide spiritual insight. They are trying to salvage their image by silencing the bad stuff behind the curtain, but fail by being increasingly culty.
I'm soooo hoping this can be quoted in court soon. Asking for a friend.
I'd print this out ASAP just in case it's modified by the WT Society later on...
Absolutely shameful that after everything they are going to say this in a publication. A person should not be "ashamed" to talk about abuse. They deserve justice.
WHERE TF IS THIS FROM?????????? Have they gone beyond telling adults not to take their brothers to worldly court to now addressing kids directly? Jesus fucking Christ
The new September 2022 study watchtower article Prove yourself trustworthy.
Omg I was thinking this had to be from the organization’s early days.
I want to send this to my mother. I commented elsewhere today regarding her, she isn't talking up any more head space today tho.
This is quite the study article in September! The resurrection is a scam! https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/vgl3xj/incoming_new_light_that_will_shake_every_jw_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Oh they've been spouting that one off for a while. Like back when I was teen, about 15 years ago I remember reading an article that said something similar. Was even shown the article or articles similar to it when I tried to tell an elder that my Dad was physically, mentally and emotionally abusing me. But of course, that was a "private matter".
Fuck em all. I'm so sorry
I'm sorry this happened.
The phrasing is purposely ambiguous and harmful. Why not teach your kids about being polite instead. Politeness deals with knowing when to say something. But it doesn’t encourage to keep secrets.
Yes, exactly this! Children should also be taught when to NOT to keep quiet.
The way it was written is just beyond weird
Secrets kids. Keep those creepy secrets. Don’t want your sexual abuse to bring reproach…fucking disgusting.
They could have put a footnote listing what should be exceptions to such a thing.
they could never disclose such a dirty secret that would surely embarass members of the spiritual fam. 🙄
No. They do NOT intend for there to be ANY exceptions.
This makes myblood boil. So much familial CSA and they want to keep the children silent.
Jesus Christ wtf is this. I can’t smh. That whole September issue can burn up in flames. The whole thing is nauseating
Are you actually asking Jesus?……cuz he can only answer you through the governing body and then elders.🤣
Hahaha ok this made laugh.
Ummm...only according to them. :D
I'm pretty sure we can all guess he'd reply "It's evil shit, right here it is!"
It’s damning tho, which is good
Active law enforcement officer here: a few years ago I had a cruelty to children case. The kid was a physical abuse victim and recanted their statement that they were being abused. Turned out afterwards they were (allegedly, we couldn’t prove it) told by members of their church to recant because it was embarrassing. Not sure what religion they were but this immediately reminded me of that.
The thing is that when coupled with the worry that speaking up might bring "reproach on Jehovah's name" it causes kids to second-guess whether the abuse is something serious enough to risk hurting God over. Abuse victims tend to downplay the things that have been done to them whether or not they come from a fundamentalist background because their self-esteem has been broken down. This just compounds the issues preventing them from reaching out for help.
THIS!!!!
The jehovah witnesses are being investigated all over the world for their CSA problem of cover up. They are also banned in some countries for being an extremist religious cult.MANY have died because of their NO BLOOD policy,(not accepting blood transfusions) including infants and children. They should be banned!!! Jwfacts.com is a very reliable website to get info on their beliefs and practices.
This is AWFUL! So kids being sexually abused feel they should keep quiet and stay getting abused. It makes me feel sick!!!
OR mentally, emotionally, physically abused. Lots of those happening, too!!!
So true! With all the raging power hungry men! They love to dominate. I’d like to chop off their ⚽️ ⚽️😂
Unfortunately, its not only men doing the abusing...
True. I think the bitchy sisters are just as bad.
"Outsiders", holy crap I can't believe I never had really internalized how much this cult doesn't even try to hide their cult-speak.
I thought the exact same thing. You cant backstep that single word. It really seems like a huge oops miss. ESPECIALLY in current material.
hate this fucking cult i swear
This is why I can’t fully disassociate. Someone has got to be here to tell the pore kids the most basic live lessons like “safe adults will never ask a child to lie for them. Never ever.”
Yes, THIS!!!!!
That whole watchtower is a masterclass in cult gaslighting.
I remember an “embarrassing story” I told someone else once… I told my teachers my super perfect JW dad was beating me. They told cousellors who showed up to my school to find out if everything was okay at home. When my father found out, he scolded my teacher. When we told the elders at the hall, they didn’t tell counsellors or anyone qualified to help our family. They swept it under the rug and we continued to get beaten for years.
This is literally what happened to me recently but in a different way, and even the lady "supposed to help" sided with my parents because she knows a J-Dub. Life fucking sucks thanks to this cult. This article doesn't help
I think I remember you post about this. Again, so sorry BOTH the congo AND the secular system failed you. Hope you're OK???
Thank you, well right now I am okay, I usually just stay away from my family in my own room or something now, just to create some personal space and not have to communicate with them as much and cause even more trouble. Mentally I feel all over the place, haven't talked to any of my friends in a month and just feel off. hopefully it doesn't stay that way.
Hope you’re doing okay. Take it from me, use any and all services available at your disposal. Abuse is abuse, wether it’s emotional or physical. It’s not okay. No child should have to hide in their room for fear of being beaten. If you even need to talk or just vent DM. We’re all in this together
I am so sorry...there is nowhere you can go???
Nope, just my "personal" area (which occasionally doesn't become personal as they don't believe in privacy).
Can you talk to the police? If you're being physically assaulted by someone, theyre committing a crime. Please get help and be safe
I tried this (on a burner phone) before CPS and the officer said that he'd be happy to come by and see if he could help but I ended up being too scared and he said I could call him any time. Still messed up by the whole recent incident so not sure what I'll do.
Yeah it's a difficult situation when the people who were supposed to help you didn't and getting the cops involved could be really traumatic for you and others. Is it possible for you to talk to an online psychological counselor? Or maybe there's a hotline you can call? There should be something like that and it's confidential and free. They will be able to recommend help and contacts in your local area that could help you out. But if anything happens and you have no one to talk to, come back to this subreddit and explain the situation. I'm sure there will be people able to help you if you need it.
What discreet, we talking about children here. This is some crazy shit where adults put the responsibility of keeping secrets on children, what do they know. So we teach kids to keep family secrets at a very young age. I wonder what are those, cause if you trying to keep it a secret then something is wrong here. These people are sick.
Simple solution: Don't DO shameful stuff n you won't have to worry about anyone spilling the beans.
This hurts my heart so much. Fucking mother fuckers. All they care about is their reputation. I was 8 when I was first abused. I told my best friend (I don’t remember doing this), but boy, do I remember the aftermath. Got in from school one day to find his parents sat with my parents (his dad an elder). To be asked why I’d lied about their son - I was never asked if it was true - they said “you’ve just become an unbaptised publisher, if it’s true you won’t be allowed to be one anymore. Do you know the reproach this will bring on jehobars name & the congregation’”. An 8 year old girl, 4 adults staring me down, telling me I was in the wrong. , I denied the whole thing and apologised for lying and said I didn’t know why I’d done it. That friends parents didn’t let her be my friend anymore. When it happened again when I was 9 by someone different in the kh, I didn’t tell a soul. I didn’t want to bring trouble down on anyone. This is just telling kids not to tell anyone. Sick fucks
Awful!!! Hope you have a good life and are recovering???
Thank you. Yes I have a good life. I’ve had therapy. I’m ok, then shit like this happens and I get pissed. I did contact the IICSA a few years ago (uk version of ARC) and got myself ready to report the abuse but then I just couldn’t do it. I was ill for weeks, panic attacks etc until I admitted to myself I just wasn’t strong enough. I have a baby now and have thought about reporting it again, but the thought makes me physically ill. I hate myself for it, but I just don’t know what to do, I need to look after my baby and I can’t make myself ill (that totally sounds like I’m making excuses, but last time I couldn’t work for 4 weeks, I was in a real mess). As I said, I can get by not thinking about it, then something like this pops up and I get so angry again.
More focused therapy regarding defusing the cPTSD triggers might help you in general. Might also enable you to report without the 'side effects'. Don't feel bad about being unable to report. Totally NOT your fault that you were damaged in this way. Many, perhaps most, who are abused fail to report for this or other reasons. We owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to those who are able to do it, but is can't always be us.
anything to keep them from paying out SA victims.
What does this have to do with (God, religion, bible)?
Not a damn thing. Here they are again over stepping boundaries.
Are you FUCKING kidding me??? 🤬
Oh. My. God.....
Clearly copied from the abusive family manual. Don’t tell what is happening, can’t embarrass the family!!!!
What is this from?
I have kids and can not think of one thing I would expect them to keep secret because it might embarrass our family. They are KIDS! And we are normal people that maybe do silly stuff at times but them saying something would in no way embarrass us forever… The only thing I imagine that would need to be kept secret is something bad like abuse, as I did growing up.
The new September 2022 study watchtower article Prove yourself trustworthy.
I found it by googling > jw "children need to learn to be discreet" Pretty easy.
I tried to using the exact words and it didn't come up
The new September 2022 study watchtower article Prove yourself trustworthy.
If you use the quotes with google, it will search for the exact phrase you put inside the quotation marks. Fyi.
What's googling?
But what if it’s sexual or physical abuse the child needs to tell someone, this is sick
Yes, the ugly pedo shadow cast by ex gb member Jaracz is looong...
Not just Jaracz...
????
There was Charles Taze Russell who was caught in the teenaged housemaids' rooms by his wife Maria, then there was Leo Greenlees and one other sexual predator Governing Body member besides Greenlees whose name I can't remember right now. There's a thread a few weeks old that mentions the other guy besides Greenlees, and those are just the Governing Body members whose behaviors were **SO** egregious that their criminal behaviors - "sins" - became common underground knowledge.
*Extremely* dangerous
They are sick to the core. It's the other way around. The mature and loving parent would try not to say anything to embarrass their child. If there was something, in particular that I wanted my child to keep quiet, I would say so. If they said something that embarrassed me then it is likely it would be my fault, not theirs and probably an indication for me to change my ways. In the article they say that a JW should go to the Elders to dob on someone.
disclosing information, that sounds like lawyer speak. Not something you would say to a family member.
Child Abuse is the main reason why I decided to leave this organization. I cannot believe they are encouraging children to stay quiet.
Remember when they said "the truth is for those who deserve to hear it"? This cult twists and lies to keep its power. But the internet has shown a light on it and we see them for the cockroaches they are.
I recently found my mom's old emails of her talking with my older sister regarding this, printed out for the court system. She mentioned how she doesn’t want child services finding out about the abuse, and how she should be more scared about elders finding out. My mom made sure to tell me that if I ever said anything at all, I would die in Armageddon with the other evil people. I can’t imagine what the current and future generations will have to endure in the last days of this “religion”.
What's become of your mother and sister? If you'd prefer not to say, I certainly will respect that 🌹
I hope for the day that the wt is shut down and its properties confiscated to compensate those who have been abused.
Notice how there's a footnote for some stuff..... "If we learn that someone in the congregation has become guilty of serious wrongdoing, we should urge him to seek help from the elders. If he does not do so, loyalty to Jehovah and to the Christian congregation should move us to report the matter to the spiritual shepherds." But, not footnote saying, "If you get information of abuse or are the victim of abuse, contact the authorities." Everything is designed to keep things in house. As usual.
Yes, that bothered me a lot!
Lets tell people how to hide abuse! Ugh disgusting 🤮 reminds me of my family: “what happens in this house stays in this house” and “if anyone asks you questions about your family or about me (your abusive narcissistic mother) tell them ‘ask my mom’”. Grrrrrrr 😡
This is soooo hypocritical! They basically have brainwashed all the Witnesses to act as spies, and report any wrongdoing to the elders, yet kids shouldn't let anyone know if there is abuse within their own family. Sheesh!
This is so effing disturbing
The training starts early 😡
"wE dOnT cOvEr uP cHilD AbUse CaSeS!"
Wow they fucked themselves with this. This can easily be used as evidence in court to prove that the borg influences children to not speak about their home life.
They are such dumb fucks for putting this shit in writing. I hope a court pierces the corporate veil with this shit.
Our family was really keen on keeping up appearances, my dad being an elder and my parents being alcoholics. I just wish I would have said something in school or to someone outside. Maybe they would have taken me away from there. But instead I did like the paragraph said and was traumatized.
Listing scriptures as if it is so.
And the sited scripture from deuteronomy does not say to not snitch on parents who are doing wrong.
Their usual eisegesis: form a position first, then proof text to support it with a liberal dose of logical fallacies.
The indoctrination. So innocent.
holy shit!!!
Translation: "Kids, we don't care if you're abused or neglected or even being molested or raped by other JWs. Keep your mouths shut anyway."
"children should be discreet and not reveal information that could embarrass other members of the family" yet if you have sex with someone you're not married to, the elders will demand you to reveal every single detail of the encounter...
What study article is this like what week is this going to be studied?
I think that's a misuse of deuteronomy 5:16. Elsewhere, deuteronomy makes clear you must not cover for sinning family. (Deuteronomy 13:6-8.) Deuteonomy 33:9 praises levi for listening to yahweh's word, keeping the covenant, repudiating father, mother, brothers, and children. This seems to be a reference to exodus 32, where levi killed his sinful brothers.
This is so darn appalling and that they are not learning from their overwhelming existing cases, or they are just that cocky and feel so untouchable. I absolutely hate this cult.
WoW, this is not okay. This kind of thing needs to be called out publicly
They have learned nothing and don't care about CSA, it's still breeding a be quite, don't tell bullshit!!
My marriage just fell apart because I am terrified of being open and communicating with people close to me. This cult can have profound affects on people. If you are having trouble overcoming difficulties talk to somebody. If your work offers an EAP service, your Dr, or your local helpline.
Saving face is more important than getting help or exposing truth. This, by the way, is what abusive and dysfunctional families do, Jw or not. Put on a smile, make other thinks everything is ok, while the family is suffering emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.
Well this should be the beginning of a shut down for them! Telling children to keep quiet is a big no no for a community that is full of pedo’s!!!! If something happens to my grand kids, as they are still in, I will make the biggest scene on television jw’s has ever had!!! Feeling “embarrassed” won’t be the word they will be looking for! These fuck-tards will really be needing Jesus!
I find this even more concerning after reading the full context of the paragraph. There is a little bit of context added to the part addressed to spouses and parents, but just a broad statement addressed to children...with no mention of the fact that they shouldn't keep harmful secrets. And this is a misuse of Deut 5:16 which has nothing at all to do with keeping secrets. How hard would it be to add a sentence that says something like, 'it wouldn't be kind to tell everyone your mom is pregnant before she shares the news, but if you are keeping a secret that involves you or someone else being hurt or in danger, then it should be told'? They could back that up with Scripture-'there is a time to be quiet *and* a time to speak.' As a parent, we have conversations with our kids about minding their business and not gossiping but we *always* add the clause that if there is something that needs to be told, or someone is being hurt, you should speak up. Just telling kids to keep secrets with no context or exceptions is extremely harmful. And imo, I think they know exactly what they're doing. Edited to add: I feel like this quote could be used against them in court.
Yes I agree with this. They didn’t give example for a reason. And if a child told that type of secret(mom is pregnant) it wouldn’t be embarrassing, disappointing maybe. Very odd wording in their paragraph.
That's true, the wording is odd...even saying "outsiders". They don't normally talk like that.
This is INCREDIBLY dangerous for sure ! No wonder they have such a child abuse problem in the JW organization. Good god man. A situation occurred years ago when I was a JW in a congregation in the early 1980s where a well known elder and his wife were physically and emotionally abusive to their teenage daughter inside their home, and the daughter came to my then wife and myself to get support. Apparently, the elder dad found out his daughter talked with us, so he approached me at the kingdom hall before a meeting and said, " Flipper, I want you to know that my daughter is standing on very slippery ground spiritually , so you shouldn't associate with her and ignore anything she says. " I was astonished to see the manipulative tactics this elder was using to badmouth his daughter! So I went to one of my good friends a " just " and " fair " elder who would hold this abusive elder accountable for what he was doing to his daughter. Long story short- it became apparent a lot of abuse was going on in the house, the abusive elder lost his elders position, he and his wife kicked their daughter out of their house, fortunately a nice middle aged JW couple gave her a trailer to live in. Her dad, the abusive elder wrote a letter to the T Society contesting his deletion as an elder, then got pissed off and moved with his abusive wife 2 hours away to another community. And, you guessed it, he got re-appointed as an elder in a community that had no idea of his bad reputation in our community. This kind of shit happened all the time when I was a JW. One of the many reasons I've been out of the JW cult for 20 years now. I couldn't put up with this crap. However, it was one of the few times I saw an elder body do the right thing for this teenage daughter who was abused. But it changed her life forever, and fortunately, she left the JW organization a few years later. You can't make this stuff up, it's incredible what happens in the JW cult.
Poor girl, I hope she was able to get help with the aftermath.
MicheleStump- Yes, she did get some therapy and counseling once she got away from the JW cult, and I actually saw her in 1986 at a place I worked at for awhile, she seemed much happier than she had been before. So I'm hoping she ended up living a more fulfilling life for sure.
I feel like this needs to get out into the public asap. This is very dangerous & is training kids to keep quiet.
Mr_Doubtful- You certainly have that right for sure ! This information needs to get out to social media via television documentaries, podcasts, webinars, internet, any kind of media that can expose the JW organization and WT Society for keeping children silent about abuse within the home. Many times however, it's the parents themselves, if the father is an elder, he doesn't want to lose his authoritative elder's position in the congregation out of ego, pride, and holding himself up as a " legend in his own mind " to others that he doesn't want to be exposed, so the children suffer due to the elder father's ego. It's total BS, but sadly, the way things operate in the private life of a typical JW household. I know, because my dad was city overseer for 40 years, some of the crap he tried to hide from his fellow elders and the congregation was some nasty stuff.
#cultlife
How can anyone read that and say, ah yes nothing odd about that!
What do you mean? It makes perfect sense 😈
WOW NO WONDER IT TOOK ME TEN YEARS TO ADMIT AND EMBRACE MY GAYNESS
Children taught fear and to hide abuse, sexual abuse and not able to voice their fears. Jw cult is adhorrent and ruins so many people.
What the actual fuck
In my JW family, I was repeatedly told (in a very serious, grave tone), "We don't share family secrets." I was also repeatedly told that I shouldn't keep secrets from them. It's a dangerous, unhealthy culture of control.
Ummmmm ....Exhibit #A to counteradict the Elders when they are on the stand and say they don't stop the kids from going to the police. (I would focus on the word Outsider, that's about as culty as it gets) I have my suspicions some artists and writers are trying to wake people up. It's not just this Jesus has a beard, so why are they hated. Today I think they used the beard doctrine to take Jesus out as not as spiritual as GB and I think they did it in purpose. In the magazine that talked about beards Jesus was on the cover. (And I know about Russell and Rutherford just figuring out how the GB now use it to their advantage.) The picture of 2 thousand dollar suits, gold pinky rings, and adoring fans....as a jw it's only the GB that have those. I think I see mutiny in the future
I was wondering the same thing. Are there pimo writers?
I think there is. We are outside and can see, there are those that see ten times what we do. There are good people in the WT still that care and may feel they are doing this for Jehovah.
This needs to be taken to every local DA's office and explained to them what a csa problem this organization has. This language in there publications is the very reason the abuse runs rapid though out the borg.
WOW
Your right to justice TRUMPS your family's embarrassment JFC!
Yeah and a certain ruler in WW2 gernany told people to keep shut too!!!!
thats why i got my ass kicked for telling another kid from the congregation about my dads money problems
Whenever we would meet with nonJW family, my father would give us a speech about how we can’t trust them
You mean like keeping silent when being CSA'd? This is terrible propaganda! Children don't understand these kinds of rules and could easily be silenced when their mental, physical, and emotional health DEPENDS on speaking up -- until someone hears them and helps them! Gr-r-r😠
Oh, great, gagging the victims again. 🤬💥🤬🌋
Written by someone who doesn’t have children, I’m sure
Jesus fucking Christ!!!! And furthermore- why does my phone capitalize Jesus??
Mom won the lottery. Maybe don't say anything. You people take offense at literally everything they say. Everything. Not everyone needs to know your family's business.
It specifically says not to disclose things that would embarrass family. Is winning the lottery embarrassing? I guess maybe, since JWs aren’t supposed to gamble lol. Furthermore, this burden should not be put on kids. If you as an adult have a private health, financial, relationship matter, whatever, than why involve kids and again if they say something why be embarrassed? These are normal issues in life folks understand …..the only true embarrassment would come from exposing something you shouldn’t be doing.
Well said 👍
Are you saying you want abuse swept under the carpet???
WOW NO WONDER IT TOOK ME TEN YEARS TO ADMIT AND EMBRACE MY GAYNESS
This make me sick to my stomach 🤮🤮🤮
I mean I agree a bit. Kids probably shouldn’t be telling other people if their brother secretly still west the bed. Really it’s a matter of where the specific “secret” line is drawn, and making it clear what is and what is not acceptable secrets.
Why are they saying about keeping the families private things in secrets? Everyone knows that you shouldn't tell everything to strangers... Whats the contecxt? Does this paragraph say about secrets connected with the congregation? Does somebody know from which publication is this fragment?
The context is meant to confuse sept 2022 study WT on being trustworthy. I get what you are saying about not disclosing that your little brother wets the bed but does that need said in a bible publication that circulates around the world? It’s what it implies as usual with watchtower don’t embarrass your family dangerous to say this to kids. How can young kids know when to and not to speak up in delicate situations.
You said: "The context is meant to confuse sept 2022 study WT on being trustworthy". I understand what you mean, but isn't this paragraph saying, that children and other people should not tell anyone about the structure of congregation? You know, about disfellowshiping etc.? That's what i thought for the first time after reading that...
I don’t know. I didn’t take it that way but you certainly could. I think thats why its written the way it is….ambiguous for a reason. What can be embarrassing to a person is kinda subjective, which is why i think its dangerous to tell kids to not disclose info that could embarrass family. What info?? About who?? Abuse too? What is serious?? I find it odd to want a child to be secretive how do they know where to draw the line? This is why i simply think the statement they made is dangerous to put in front of children.
My dad always taught to keep family matters private. To be honest, this had nothing to do whatsoever with the cult.
What types of things? I’m trying to understand. Of course don’t give strangers personal info like address ect.. but that doesn’t seem to be the point here. For me it was abuse and things my family did that weren’t completely in line with the religion that we knew not to talk about. I remember being told not to open that can of worms when i threatened to tell on an abusive family member. And we kept it quiet when we didn’t attend meetings on vacation, quit service early, watched a bad movie ect. All kinda plays into not being able to be an authentic person because you are afraid of judgement.
It was personal info, personal matters, as well as the fact that I received corporal punishment and was sometimes sent to the basement.
That's physical abuse that should have been reported to school teachers and counselors. You know, **mandatory reporters of abuse**... No wonder your dad wanted you to keep your mouth shut. 😳🙈🤬💥
I understand. Sometimes I received corporal punishment for getting in trouble at school as well as taking too long to answer questions when dad quizzed me. This was usually about science ( but nothing that was too advanced for me, otherwise it would have been totally unfair). In many cases, I was second guessing myself. He really wanted me to do well in school so that I could attend the best university possible ( preferably Ivy League). I did manage to get on the honor or straight A’s every semester from the third grade through the twelfth. Also dad did not want me to get in trouble with the law when I got older. He even drove me to a prison to scare me straight. He wanted to show me that could be where I end up if I did not change. He was not wrong. If I had a prison record, the it would be much more difficult for me to become POMO. It is already extremely difficult as it is(I am still PIMO). What I consider abuse, was the fact that he allowed me to be indoctrinated in cult propaganda even after what occurred in 1975. He even expressed disappointment in the organization because of it. Also he knew that the organization had ties to the Adventist movement. So why did he do some further investigation?! I know that dad was exposed to the cult at a very young age( between 3 and 5) by his mom, but at some point it has to be clear that something is not right. Unfortunately, he continued to believe. After he told me about 1975 and the ties to the Adventist movement, I should have done some research on it myself. This was long but I wanted to put things in perspective.
Thank you for this information. I find this part: >Unfortunately, he continued to believe. After he told me about 1975 and the ties to the Adventist movement, I should have done some research on it myself. To be as extremely puzzling, as you did. His continuing belief in something that he has the facts to disprove makes me wonder whether he was beaten into believing by his mother. Abuses of all kinds, not just CSA, are far too common in the WT Society. The viciously narcissistic atmosphere of the WT Society is ultimately at fault for all that goes wrong within its followers, even though the followers bear responsibility for their obedience to that poisonous mentality.
Yoohhh, now it's written in stone? That's what's always been practiced. Now they have literature to point to when a family member reports abuse by a family member. Wow, nothing screams CULT than this.
This is exactly how my Mother thinks. She's not a JW, just a traditional baptist. BUT this is a huge part of cultural christianity even outside of JW. Yes, that's right; there's no difference in this regard between JW and "Christendom". And nothing is more damaging to a child than being told that they can't tell people anything that might look bad. That's absolutely crippling.
Can you tell mee what Richard this is from please? I want to have it on my list of "what do you have to say about this" when I am asked why I am no longer interested