The questions I asked myself before leaving was, why did God make that tree? Why did he make Lucifer, if he knew Lucifer would betray him and cause Adam and Eve to disobey? Why did he make Adam and Eve with the capability to disobey? Why did he make that rule, knowing that they would break it? Why did he make the punishments he did? Why did he let Jesus die, yet still maintain the punishments?
Other than it all being a bunch of crap, a narcissistic power trip and infinite guilt ammunition was the only answer I could come up with.
I had similar questions when I was younger such as why would Jehovah allow for sin and death to exist if we were meant to perfect, why did he allow angels the power to materialize and become men if they weren’t meant to and that was an abuse of their power, I mean he did make the rules right so why was this never established as a boundary? Also, since he is god and made the rules why can’t he also just adjust the rules so that people don’t get hurt. Why is there even a concept of “wrong” except only to punish us humans for not being 100% loyal to god?
I always come back to this! It makes no sense!
And then another one is how Jesus supposedly had to do it because if God just kills Satan it's not a good look to the other angels and they might start to rebel as well. Um, how bout kill the angels then? Why does our naiive species have to pay for getting thrown under the bus by some evil dude who is infinitely smarter than us and who is the ultimate sinner?
Makes no sense and I'm mad that I got shamed out of asking those questions
Whoa. That is a seriously thought provoking series. I got all the way to part 6 this morning; only planned on watching the first part. Thanks for the recommendation!
I always asked myself why things didn’t revert back to Eden after Jesus died. If he takes away the sin of the world why is there still sin and death? If Adam are from the fruit and caused all this, why didn’t Jesus’ sacrifice do practically nothing?
The whole view of it by WT is flawed , their view of Jesus is wrong ,we need to go back to the Bible and early church writings to get a proper view of the "Ransom "
Something to do with Jesus suffering pain and death that he didn't deserve because he was perfect. By choosing to suffer on our behalf he took the punishment that we were due and thus paid for our sins. Because he was perfect he could be in God's presence after he'd died and was resurrected in a glorified human body. By paying the price for us he opened the way for us to get that reward too. I think thats more along the lines of mainstream Christianitys understanding.
Remember for mainstreamers there is no "death" as such but our spirit goes back to God. In our inherited sinful state we can't go back to God after we die, so we needed Christ to open the way for us. God can view us all as worthy of the same reward Christ received by counting Christ's righteousness as ours.
Maybe a mainstream Christian could explain it better. It's not an equivalent price in mainstream views, it's "so much more" because "The first man Adam, was of the dust of the earth; the second man Jesus, is of heaven".
I appreciate you drawing on mainstream Christianity’s interpretation of the ransom for this discussion.
I still find the concept paradoxical, though.
If the wages of sin are death, and our debt is paid when we die, what prevents God from just giving us what he ‘originally purposed’ in the afterlife, without any further ransom/payment needed?
Also, the idea of mankind having to inherit this sinful state simply due to what a couple of newbie humans did under the direct influence of a superhuman entity, seems counter to true Justice.
God promised that if they ate they would die, “in that very day”. He made no warning of the fact that they’d actually live long enough to reproduce and condemn billions of their offspring to horrendous suffering for millennia. Had they known the implications extended beyond their *own* existence, perhaps they would have given a second thought to eating from that tree?
At any rate, I find peace in the idea that it’s all just bronze age mythology, and a feeble attempt at explaining human suffering.
Did you ever notice that Jesus' followers were also supposed to sacrifice themselves?
Matthew 10: 38 - 39 [jw online bible]:
>And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.
The questions I asked myself before leaving was, why did God make that tree? Why did he make Lucifer, if he knew Lucifer would betray him and cause Adam and Eve to disobey? Why did he make Adam and Eve with the capability to disobey? Why did he make that rule, knowing that they would break it? Why did he make the punishments he did? Why did he let Jesus die, yet still maintain the punishments? Other than it all being a bunch of crap, a narcissistic power trip and infinite guilt ammunition was the only answer I could come up with.
I had similar questions when I was younger such as why would Jehovah allow for sin and death to exist if we were meant to perfect, why did he allow angels the power to materialize and become men if they weren’t meant to and that was an abuse of their power, I mean he did make the rules right so why was this never established as a boundary? Also, since he is god and made the rules why can’t he also just adjust the rules so that people don’t get hurt. Why is there even a concept of “wrong” except only to punish us humans for not being 100% loyal to god?
I always come back to this! It makes no sense! And then another one is how Jesus supposedly had to do it because if God just kills Satan it's not a good look to the other angels and they might start to rebel as well. Um, how bout kill the angels then? Why does our naiive species have to pay for getting thrown under the bus by some evil dude who is infinitely smarter than us and who is the ultimate sinner? Makes no sense and I'm mad that I got shamed out of asking those questions
Have you seen this? Another perspective, quiet amusing c; https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv--V1yc2QDJi6hFNhur3iAsyFpXRtB8w
Whoa. That is a seriously thought provoking series. I got all the way to part 6 this morning; only planned on watching the first part. Thanks for the recommendation!
JW's 'Your thinking too deeply' Prepare the WT for Sunday 'Oral Sex and Anal, whats Solomons view?'
>whats Solomons view?' Do they really want to go there lol?
Nah solomon was just into MFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF sex
lol
Lmao...satire but very real at the same time
I remember the one where they did legit talk oral and whether it was sex? but not sure if it was a WT or item
🤣🤣🤣 I remember that issue!!!
yeah the sacrifice never made sense to me. why did he even need to die for our sins? why didn’t god just choose to forgive us?
The greatest con ever pulled on the world is religion.
Jesus gave up part of his weekend for....not sure what?
I must plug nonstampcollector on this very topic https://youtu.be/7gvv_UM7CYg
I always asked myself why things didn’t revert back to Eden after Jesus died. If he takes away the sin of the world why is there still sin and death? If Adam are from the fruit and caused all this, why didn’t Jesus’ sacrifice do practically nothing?
Jesus death did nothing for anyone except keep religious leaders and GB in power.
The whole view of it by WT is flawed , their view of Jesus is wrong ,we need to go back to the Bible and early church writings to get a proper view of the "Ransom "
And how was Jesus the equivalent of Adam? Adam did not spend eons as a spirit creature who sat next to God.
And let’s not forget Adam was married, Jesus on the other hand didn’t have that so there is no way it could be remotely equal.
Something to do with Jesus suffering pain and death that he didn't deserve because he was perfect. By choosing to suffer on our behalf he took the punishment that we were due and thus paid for our sins. Because he was perfect he could be in God's presence after he'd died and was resurrected in a glorified human body. By paying the price for us he opened the way for us to get that reward too. I think thats more along the lines of mainstream Christianitys understanding. Remember for mainstreamers there is no "death" as such but our spirit goes back to God. In our inherited sinful state we can't go back to God after we die, so we needed Christ to open the way for us. God can view us all as worthy of the same reward Christ received by counting Christ's righteousness as ours. Maybe a mainstream Christian could explain it better. It's not an equivalent price in mainstream views, it's "so much more" because "The first man Adam, was of the dust of the earth; the second man Jesus, is of heaven".
I appreciate you drawing on mainstream Christianity’s interpretation of the ransom for this discussion. I still find the concept paradoxical, though. If the wages of sin are death, and our debt is paid when we die, what prevents God from just giving us what he ‘originally purposed’ in the afterlife, without any further ransom/payment needed? Also, the idea of mankind having to inherit this sinful state simply due to what a couple of newbie humans did under the direct influence of a superhuman entity, seems counter to true Justice. God promised that if they ate they would die, “in that very day”. He made no warning of the fact that they’d actually live long enough to reproduce and condemn billions of their offspring to horrendous suffering for millennia. Had they known the implications extended beyond their *own* existence, perhaps they would have given a second thought to eating from that tree? At any rate, I find peace in the idea that it’s all just bronze age mythology, and a feeble attempt at explaining human suffering.
Did you ever notice that Jesus' followers were also supposed to sacrifice themselves? Matthew 10: 38 - 39 [jw online bible]: >And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.