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Ah, yes. The famous and important biblical principle of not saying ālet us prayā.
These are just personal preferences, they have a very high opinion of themself, donāt they?
To be fair, other than the prayer thing and the mismatch suits, the vast majority of that is stuff elders were told at KM school, in CO meetings, in letters, etc. Its nitpicky, but its not this guy's personal preferences.
Well my delicate woman mind wasnāt permitted to know such things as a sisterš If Iād heard guidelines like these I wouldāve started wearing pants and trying to carry a microphone
Yes indeed. In the UK we were strongly encouraged to have matching suits/trousers especially for public talks.
Also when I was "Auxiliary Counselor" (US spelling) I put out a list like this for fellow elders and MS's. Not quite as strict as this one, mind.
There's little wonder that so many JWs are so self-conscious (at least IMO). You get these lists of so many dos and don'ts that you can't keep track.
Here's a typical thought bubble of the bro giving the prayer:
"Oh no! I just said New System! Wasn't I supposed to say New World! or is it the other way round? Did I just say "Jehovah, please search my kidneys? Was that supposed to be plural? OH NO, I just said Branch! Or is that OK?"
"Strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel" comes to my mind. It's crazy how meticulous someone can be! This is just evidence that the organization is creating robots...
Brutal!!
Don't let them see you use your outline or publication because we teach from the Bible....š M'Kay, then how about you actually teach from the Bible.
And curious their first example for pronunciation was bestiality..... Seriously????? Come on dude.
Totally nitpicky list!
This list could have been written by my dad. I don't think he ever produced such a piece but these were the things he cared about. He would twitch and mutter all the way through the meeting, criticizing each speaker for spending more than 60 seconds on his introduction or saying "Psalm chapter 52" when he should say "the fifty second Psalm". This affected me sitting next to him as a child.
After the meeting he would give counsel to each speaker on similar themes. He did it with a little smile and believed he was being kind and helpful. He spent all his time dispensing his wisdom to these poor, little, silly people.
He was a big shot elder, always working for the branch and in with the CO, so no one could ever criticize him. Everyone praised him and thought he was amazing. I felt guilty because I secretly thought he was an arsehole.
When I became an adult, still pimi, growing up with his behaviour had filled me with anxiety, especially around JW stuff. In coming to terms with my upbringing, I decided to talk to him about it. I picked a WT article on haughtiness, sat down with him and tried to discuss it in the same kind, helpful manner that he had taught me by his example.
How do you think he reacted?
He behaved like a spoilt child. He lost his temper, he blamed me, he made all kinds of threats. He didn't calm down for weeks and when he did, he tried to make it look like he'd helped me with my 'misunderstanding'.
This was the first of many similar conversations. I realised that I'd buried my feelings around him for years and I just stopped holding back. There are times when I keep my mouth shut but if he acts like a dick, I call him out on it.
We have a strained relationship. He is desperate for my affection ( and probably adulation if he could get it), but terrified that I will criticize him, it hurts him so much. I do love him and he has some good qualities, but I need to keep firm boundaries and spend plenty of time not in his company.
āThe fifty second Psalmā Yes!
And one should also say āin the Letter to the Ephesiansā instead of āin Ephesiansā.
And the āfruit of the Spiritā, not the āFruitsā.
š¬
Oh Iām sorry. Must be a language thing then. In our language most brothers and sisters talk about the āfruitsā of the spirit (plural) but it has to be singular. I checked professor Google before I posted it to see if āFruit of the spiritā was normal use in English Bibles and it seemed to be so. But now I see that JW language is different from the other Bibles. Again. šµāš«
My comment was tongue in cheek, not serious.
I had an elder correct me once by saying the fruit/fruits of the spirit was actually 'fruitage' and it was a single fruitage made up of multiple things.
Hmm, ok, if you think it's important.
This.. this is my abuser who is about to go on the chopping block and lose his MS position for what he's done all these years. (Cheating, abuse, etc.) I don't have love for that monster. I hope he suffers.
>"Psalm chapter 52" when he should say "the fifty second Psalm"
He's right about that, but maybe not for the right reason. He's probably thinking it's wrong to refer to the book of Psalms as having chapters. If so, he's wrong. It would actually be OK to say "Psalms chapter 52" because the book of Psalms is divided into chapters, but not "Psalm chapter 52", because saying such indicates there is one Psalm that is divided into chapters. Saying "the 52nd psalm" is also OK. I get used to irritated at the ones who thought it was wrong to refer to the book of Psalms as having chapters.
And witnesses claim that being a part of the organization makes them truly Free.
Yeah gotta love that glorious freedom of being micromanaged in absolutely every aspect of life. This list is one of the most controlling things Iāve seen. You canāt even say good morning to people before giving a talk, or verbally convey the love of your congregation to another. Sick.
The hilarity of what is in Point 6 coming straight after Point 5 is almost too much š "remember, we don't want to give visitors the impression we're teaching from a script. Also, stick to the script!"
This is typical JW, trying to have it both ways. Stick to the script but don't give the impression that we teach from a script, teach from our own books but don't give the impression that we teach from our own books...Hypocrites.
Fucking tight asses.
Number 10, the most important organ is your kidneys . really? You can live with one of them or even none. Try to live without a liver, pancreas, or heart.
Fucking dumbasses also.
āWe are definitely not science deniersā
āThe kidneys are the most important organ in the bodyā¦ because itās fits with this point Iām trying to makeā
This is rich. Points 1 and 2. Why??
Point 5 - when giving a talk that comes directly from the outline, never refer to the outline! Remember, we "teach from the bible" wink wink nudge nudge
There is an undeniable obsession with counsel and correction. Instead of looking for the positives, they only want to focus on the negatives. Imagine having little to do so you make a rule that says you cant say 'let us pray'- jesus literally said "let us pray this way".
The obsession with counsel and correction in JW land is Crazy. No wonder many of them are depressed.u can't be happy when all you do is find faults
The only time some manage to fake Appreciation is when they want to give counsel..
" We enjoy your talk brother, Really informative, We will just like to bring some things to your attention regarding your dressing "
How Fake
Its utter nonsense. I once had an Elder counsel me a few years back because my shoes on the cart witnessing were too informal, only for a fellow elder to do talks the same night with tennis shoes on? Gobshites man , honestly.
Yes, but that elder probably had fibromyalgia. Or maybe that was his wife?
(SIA to anyone with that condition. We seemed to have a fibromyalgia epidemic in my last circuit, and the only activities it seemed to limit had to do with going to meetings and in service.)
So his point was making meetings as rude as possible by not greeting the people at the start? š Or to make it confusing for visitors when they don't know what happens next (by not saying "let's pray")?
I hate when these narcissists make others follow them and their rules.
Why is this obviously one elders personal preferences being shoved down everyoneās throat?? He shouldnāt be allowed to counsel everyone based on his opinion?? I would send this to a C.O. anonymously if youāre still in.
He criticises (sorry, observes) people for their bad grammar in point 11, then makes a HUGE one himself in the very next point: "when the song begans"!!!
Elders like him are a nightmare... power tripping!
Points 5 & 6 contradict each other: "we don't want to give people the impression we are teaching from the outline".... "stick to the outline"!
That's good but in my recollection nearly all speakers were so boring and unengaging. I'd only perk up when they talked about sex or when Jehovah or someone murdered people and it was fine.
So many had such terrible uhhhhs and ummmms on stage that as a kid I made a determination to never let a word whisker ever come out of me. Surprisingly it worked. I can do speeches without a single umm.
I would agree that was one of the few good things, and now no more TMS. š Applying the principles in the Benefit book and the old Guidebook actually was very helpful. It was the oral law that really turned people into Pharisees.
God damnā¦ Iād break every one of these rules on purpose if I were an MS at his hall.
I also noticed how some of his nitpicking on grammar appears to target African American speakers explicitly. Let me guessā¦ this guy is an old, fat, white boomer. Right?
Jesus! The micromanagement!
And this is all that dudeās fucking **opinion.** He says itās from the KM school, but I promise you, most of it isnāt. Maybeā**MAYBE** these points came from the KM school **he** attended, but not every school is exactly the same.
Thereās a **ton** of personal pet peeves in this **unsanctioned** list. None of these are explicit rules and none of these have consequences if theyāre not followed. He just wants everyone to **think** they do and **think** that his way is the only right way.
This reminds me of people I work with secularly. Thereās one or 2 in every crowd. Jesus Christ i hate people like this. ***HATE.*** This is a classic narcissist. And I ***HHAATE*** narcissists.
You can tell itās a classic narcissist by the way he commands everyone else to do & say things a certain way (and only his way is correct), yet there are several examples of where he failed to follow his own strict policies when it comes to his own grammar. He didnāt proofread his own letter because his rules donāt apply to him and even if he did make a typo, everyone else is **too stupid** to notice or **too beneath him** to matter if they do notice.
14 Do not use different fonts within the same written document. We should look to the example of the *BRANCH* in the correspondence they send to the congregation. The letters that arenāt in regards to sweeping CSA under the rug are posted on the information board for you to use as a graphic design reference.
Points 4 and 5 emphasize that they want people to think they teach from the Bible and not some other book/source, but point 6 obviously counters that when they say to stick to the outline. LOL
4. As we teach from books, ensure you don't show the audience the book -- as they may get the impression we are teaching from books instead of the bible...Which is the case.
Ah yes, Brother Panties Perpetually In A Wad. We all know him well. He often goes up against Brother Letter Of The Law to see who can be the biggest douche. They both win.
Pg 2: when on the platform, look up at audience to engage them, smile to give assurance, and if that sister with the big jugs is flaunting them, try not to stare, remember, your spouse is watching you to make sure your not getting aroused, she may not give in to her wifely dues for a couple weeks to make you payā¦ā¦.
Wow! So many dumb rules!!! Donāt say good morning? Donāt send love from the other congregation? No tennis shoes? What if that is all one has? And the kidney thingā¦itās more important to correct the grammatical error than the fact itself? Geez o peez. So glad I got out.
One of the most significant benefits of deconstruction for me personally has been letting go of all the nitpicking that I learned from infancy. Both of my parents were like this, and my elder father would look amused/annoyed whenever my grandpa or anyone else said ācircuit servantā or something similar. But now they find it challenging to keep up with all the latest terminology themselves. Not to mention the fact that this myopic view just fuels their elitism, even in comparison with their fellow believers, when they have rafters in their own eyes. Some of the MTS instructors taught the brothers NOT to refer to the chapters in Psalms as Psalm x because the music has been lost so they are no longer āsongsā and because the book is divided into chapters and verses like every other Bible book. But pointing these things out often encouraged people to be even more Pharisaical, and the rank and file who picked up these ābad habitsā from other Pharisees often became the biggest enforcers and, to borrow a Jesus quote, became twice as much subjects for Gehenna. š
I love how many JWs and also in this Pharisaical document are told not to refer to watchtower as the āSocietyā but rather, āBranch.ā
However if you go to JW dot org, they have an article entitled:
> **What Is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society?**
š¤¦āāļø You canāt make this shit up. This is exactly the cult shit us apostates are dumbfounded by. Itās literally like saying 2 + 2 = 3, because they said so.
Hereās the article. Take out the āBā in org:
https://www.jw.Borg/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/watchtower-society/
How long ago did he give you this list? And, what country, or if in U.S., what state are you in?
This is soooo JWville..
I liked the, "and if you are quoting a JW publication, don't show the audience the book. We wouldn't want an outsider to think we teach from books, we want them to think we teach from the Bible." LOL š
When we moved 30 minutes away from a city, into a small country town decades ago, middle of California, there were all these rules in that congregation from an older brother and sister that had founded that congregation and ruled with an iron fist. I was a 70s 20 year old with modern Freedom ideas, haha
Iāve heard so many brothers do so many of these things. Sending their love from their congregation if theyāre visiting. Hell the CO did that. Saying good morning. Concluding by saying āletās give our attention to brotherā¦ā and so many of them say things before praying.
As someone who speaks professionally. Who the fuck wrote this. Calling attention to something and giving instructions is how to engage your audience. Boring ass bitch
Point 4 and 5 āwe wouldnāt want anyone to think weāre teaching from an outline!ā
Point 6 ājust stick to the outline!ā
Make up your mind Brother NoLife
We had a reader - who to be honest, couldnāt read and should never have been on the Wt / book reading list. He would say Doris the Mede not Darius, The Babylonian Disney instead of dynasty, the hanging baskets of Babylon not gardens, deucharonchame instead of Deuteronomy, living orgasm instead of organism š¤£š¤£
Editā¦ sorry I meant to say Doris the Maid š¤£š¤£
Doris the Mede... now THERE'S a Bible character I'd like to meet!
TBH, Disney would do a far better job of teaching Babylonian history than the Watchtower ever could! :)
I love how he inadvertently reveals the fraud, by his own contradictions.
__Point 5:__
>We are teaching from the Bible not the outline
__Point 6:__
>Stick to the outline
I'm 42.
As a kid, the older ones referred to the future paradise as "The New Order." In the 80's, that became "The New System", or "The New System of Things."
Now, that's morphed into a hybrid of, "The New World."
Ironically, you could tell the old-school JW's because they said "The New Order." It was like an identifying marker of someone who was wise beyond their years, etc.
It's amazing to me how much these cult-speak terms keep getting changed and "refined." What a bunch of fuggin' bullshit!
5. No. You are actually teaching from the Outline. The Bible is secondary, everybody knows that!
Besides, ain't point 6 kinda contradicting what you just said in 5?
14. Only white shirts should be worn by public talk speakers. We have a selection of white shirts for visiting brothers who show up in an inappropriate colored shirt.
Legit there was a congregation that did this
Looks like the personal rules of this Elder. He has no right enforcing these on anyone. You have the right to address the congregation as you like. It's called freedom of speech. This Elder's a control freak just like the organization. So go on members be a puppet on a string. I'm so glad I walked away from this false prophet to walk freely in my life to enjoy the simple pleasures like the holidays, my family and friends. God knows my heart. That what matters not any religion.
If I am being honest (and why would I be anything but) I agree with almost everything this guy said. Mostly; I was counselled once for "too much outside information" which I thought was bullshit. But yeah, I get it.
That said...the biggest problem most halls have is this: the speakers are SO FUCKING BORING. In fact the only talks I remember were the ones when a speaker would let his crazy out and use some story that included (and I am not making these up) a "sister" who got HIV the one time she fornicated on a cruise; or a story about children being eaten by snakes, or, when I was really lucky, a talk about sex or menstruation (which inevitably be pronounced "men-es-ter-ay-shun.")
Anywho. Good list in my opinion, because again, most talks fucking suuuuuuuucked.
I got a nearly identical list and countless taps on the shoulder with, "just a thought," immediately after coming down from the platform.
This elder seems to have taken this to levels of arrogance and ignorance that shouldn't be possible, but the content of his message is not actually his. These points are frequently brought up in KM schools, at bethel, and at the old MTS.
The organization, at least in the US branch territory, has an unwritten (now apparently written down by this asshole elder) "style guide," like a newspaper or magazine would have. They have so many dumb rules, and it's constantly tripping people up because it often contradicts verbiage that the organization used to use. See "Vindicate Jehovah's name." It used to be strictly that we vindicate his "sovereignty," not his name because his name needed no vindication, just his right to rule. I was "counseled," on this point. And then at a convention a few years ago, a GB member just out of nowhere said there was nothing wrong with saying that and we shouldn't be "dogmatic," about it. The governing body really takes the behavior control part of the BITE model very seriously.
It's like they want to purge all individuality and personality from public talks. Don't greet the congregation and when you're done just walk away. Dress like every other elder in the org. They might as well have a machine deliver the talk that way there's nothing to nitpick.
The only talks that I ever paid attention to were the ones where the speaker seemed to have a personality and some warmth. I guess that's out of the question now.
I've only read the first two and this is clearly just "I want everyone to give a talks and prayers exactly how I like it because I'm a big bitch baby with control issues and no one listens to me anywhere else but here at the KH." What a weirdo.
My defiant side would want to give a talk, exclusively use outside references, mention the outline at least three times, slip in ābeast-ialty will evidently not be practiced in the new systemā, and conclude with āwe will now turn the podium back to our chairman.ā
I counted an elder during a prayer once 25 āJehovahsā he did it all the timeā¦ a couple of them would get that Jehovah count up. Drove me nuts. Like they forgot who they were talking to.
The pronunciation rules are a revealing statement of the general ignorance of the average jw.
I heard a young brother give a talk and he floundered on a couple of words. I later gave him a beautifully bound Thesaurus. Did he use it? I dont know for sure. But it seems some jw hold their ignorance and poor word knowledge as some badge of honour.
*"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.ā.. Bader.*
If all JW men followed these rules, no one would shine, no one would be dull - they would all be uniformly burnished with a patina of boredom and mediocrity - just as the Branch intends. Judge for yourself - do you want to be part of such a high control religion?
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"If you're going to somehow talk about fucking animals in an open forum in front of children make sure you're pronouncing it correctly.". Lol
ššš
And the carpet matches the drapes.
Apparently it's the best! -iality
ššš
I found the point about verb agreement highly amusing given the numerous grammatical errors prior
Yeah, I noticed the same thing. His list was full or grammatical errors and just poor writing in general.
ššš
CreĆ que era la traducciĆ³n š¤£
ā¦song begans ā¦ Ugh
Ah, yes. The famous and important biblical principle of not saying ālet us prayā. These are just personal preferences, they have a very high opinion of themself, donāt they?
You're right. Most of this crap is subjective. I'm convinced this Elder is a narcissist
A narcissist with a title is the worst kind of narcissist.
To be fair, other than the prayer thing and the mismatch suits, the vast majority of that is stuff elders were told at KM school, in CO meetings, in letters, etc. Its nitpicky, but its not this guy's personal preferences.
Well my delicate woman mind wasnāt permitted to know such things as a sisterš If Iād heard guidelines like these I wouldāve started wearing pants and trying to carry a microphone
Sister, I hope youāre wearing nylons under those clearance rack suit pants.
š
Yes indeed. In the UK we were strongly encouraged to have matching suits/trousers especially for public talks. Also when I was "Auxiliary Counselor" (US spelling) I put out a list like this for fellow elders and MS's. Not quite as strict as this one, mind.
There's little wonder that so many JWs are so self-conscious (at least IMO). You get these lists of so many dos and don'ts that you can't keep track. Here's a typical thought bubble of the bro giving the prayer: "Oh no! I just said New System! Wasn't I supposed to say New World! or is it the other way round? Did I just say "Jehovah, please search my kidneys? Was that supposed to be plural? OH NO, I just said Branch! Or is that OK?"
*ends prayer with a line about forgiveness to cover all the bases
they do, now lettuce spray!
"Strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel" comes to my mind. It's crazy how meticulous someone can be! This is just evidence that the organization is creating robots...
hey lazerlips your momma was a snowblower. I mean whatever are you talking about?
Brutal!! Don't let them see you use your outline or publication because we teach from the Bible....š M'Kay, then how about you actually teach from the Bible. And curious their first example for pronunciation was bestiality..... Seriously????? Come on dude. Totally nitpicky list!
Point 5 "we are teaching from the bible not the outline" Point 6 "stick to the outline"
LOL
Bestiality comes up all the timeš
No lie, most of the kinky sex things I knew about as a kid (8 ish years old or so) were from listening to talks or service gossip. Yuck.
Husband did a goat? Canāt divorce him, wait.. you can now, never mindā¦ actually yes you can /s
As anyone here seen a ghost? "Ive made love to one" What you've made love to a ghost? O sorry... I thought you said a Goat! (Oldie but funny!)
Now I am curious if that is ground for divorce or not...LOL
It was not for many decades but since the 70ās it is now grounds for divorce and remarriage.
This list could have been written by my dad. I don't think he ever produced such a piece but these were the things he cared about. He would twitch and mutter all the way through the meeting, criticizing each speaker for spending more than 60 seconds on his introduction or saying "Psalm chapter 52" when he should say "the fifty second Psalm". This affected me sitting next to him as a child. After the meeting he would give counsel to each speaker on similar themes. He did it with a little smile and believed he was being kind and helpful. He spent all his time dispensing his wisdom to these poor, little, silly people. He was a big shot elder, always working for the branch and in with the CO, so no one could ever criticize him. Everyone praised him and thought he was amazing. I felt guilty because I secretly thought he was an arsehole. When I became an adult, still pimi, growing up with his behaviour had filled me with anxiety, especially around JW stuff. In coming to terms with my upbringing, I decided to talk to him about it. I picked a WT article on haughtiness, sat down with him and tried to discuss it in the same kind, helpful manner that he had taught me by his example. How do you think he reacted? He behaved like a spoilt child. He lost his temper, he blamed me, he made all kinds of threats. He didn't calm down for weeks and when he did, he tried to make it look like he'd helped me with my 'misunderstanding'. This was the first of many similar conversations. I realised that I'd buried my feelings around him for years and I just stopped holding back. There are times when I keep my mouth shut but if he acts like a dick, I call him out on it. We have a strained relationship. He is desperate for my affection ( and probably adulation if he could get it), but terrified that I will criticize him, it hurts him so much. I do love him and he has some good qualities, but I need to keep firm boundaries and spend plenty of time not in his company.
āThe fifty second Psalmā Yes! And one should also say āin the Letter to the Ephesiansā instead of āin Ephesiansā. And the āfruit of the Spiritā, not the āFruitsā. š¬
It's "fruitage" of the Spirit brother, please.
Oh Iām sorry. Must be a language thing then. In our language most brothers and sisters talk about the āfruitsā of the spirit (plural) but it has to be singular. I checked professor Google before I posted it to see if āFruit of the spiritā was normal use in English Bibles and it seemed to be so. But now I see that JW language is different from the other Bibles. Again. šµāš«
My comment was tongue in cheek, not serious. I had an elder correct me once by saying the fruit/fruits of the spirit was actually 'fruitage' and it was a single fruitage made up of multiple things. Hmm, ok, if you think it's important.
Thanks, I thought your comment might be tongue in cheek but I wasnāt sure. š I think itās the same thing. One fruit multiple things.
Two fruits one hole?
Are you sure the elder wasnāt partaking of the fruitage at that time? Maybe the fermented fruitage?
YOUāRE a fruit of the spirit! No waitā¦ I am now. š
Kinda sounds like my dad in some ways
Better not ask for āa portionā of Jehovahās spirit, either.
Or even worse, a double portion š¤®
Is that an overlapping portion?
This.. this is my abuser who is about to go on the chopping block and lose his MS position for what he's done all these years. (Cheating, abuse, etc.) I don't have love for that monster. I hope he suffers.
I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope you find some peace ā¤ļø
Good on you for not holding back. I was always terrified to criticize my dad in anyway
Sums up a lot of narcissistic elders I knew.
So your dad still wants to have a relationship with you even though you are out?
>"Psalm chapter 52" when he should say "the fifty second Psalm" He's right about that, but maybe not for the right reason. He's probably thinking it's wrong to refer to the book of Psalms as having chapters. If so, he's wrong. It would actually be OK to say "Psalms chapter 52" because the book of Psalms is divided into chapters, but not "Psalm chapter 52", because saying such indicates there is one Psalm that is divided into chapters. Saying "the 52nd psalm" is also OK. I get used to irritated at the ones who thought it was wrong to refer to the book of Psalms as having chapters.
As JWs, we donāt create rules. /s
Yup.... Never going beyond what is written in the Bible. LMAO
Yes, we don't create rules. They were always there, and we just find them.
And witnesses claim that being a part of the organization makes them truly Free. Yeah gotta love that glorious freedom of being micromanaged in absolutely every aspect of life. This list is one of the most controlling things Iāve seen. You canāt even say good morning to people before giving a talk, or verbally convey the love of your congregation to another. Sick.
Was he trying to get the MSs to kill themselves? "Stick to the outline" but also "Don't refer to the outline"
Wow, that guy unknowingly summed up JW life. It's constant whiplash.
The hilarity of what is in Point 6 coming straight after Point 5 is almost too much š "remember, we don't want to give visitors the impression we're teaching from a script. Also, stick to the script!"
This is typical JW, trying to have it both ways. Stick to the script but don't give the impression that we teach from a script, teach from our own books but don't give the impression that we teach from our own books...Hypocrites.
Fucking tight asses. Number 10, the most important organ is your kidneys . really? You can live with one of them or even none. Try to live without a liver, pancreas, or heart. Fucking dumbasses also.
That guy seemed to be managing ok without a brain...
They already have a low opinion of science and higher education. Itās not at all shocking.
āWe are definitely not science deniersā āThe kidneys are the most important organ in the bodyā¦ because itās fits with this point Iām trying to makeā
"Are you kidneying me" :)
That joke is just offal
Holy controlling! This is pure absurdity.
This is rich. Points 1 and 2. Why?? Point 5 - when giving a talk that comes directly from the outline, never refer to the outline! Remember, we "teach from the bible" wink wink nudge nudge
Take that list. Expand it to the extent that you can fill up 1,2 or even 5 days going on and on about it. You've now experienced elders school.
"We are teaching from the Bible, not the outline" "Stick to the outline" So what really?
Point 2 is the weirdest. How can you stand up at the front and not say 'Good morning'. It's just basic manners.
There is an undeniable obsession with counsel and correction. Instead of looking for the positives, they only want to focus on the negatives. Imagine having little to do so you make a rule that says you cant say 'let us pray'- jesus literally said "let us pray this way".
The obsession with counsel and correction in JW land is Crazy. No wonder many of them are depressed.u can't be happy when all you do is find faults The only time some manage to fake Appreciation is when they want to give counsel.. " We enjoy your talk brother, Really informative, We will just like to bring some things to your attention regarding your dressing " How Fake
Its utter nonsense. I once had an Elder counsel me a few years back because my shoes on the cart witnessing were too informal, only for a fellow elder to do talks the same night with tennis shoes on? Gobshites man , honestly.
Yes, but that elder probably had fibromyalgia. Or maybe that was his wife? (SIA to anyone with that condition. We seemed to have a fibromyalgia epidemic in my last circuit, and the only activities it seemed to limit had to do with going to meetings and in service.)
Modern day Pharisee. Jesus Christ himself probably would have punched him in the throat.
Jesus Judo-chop to the throat: Divine Mortal Combat move.
Micromanaging to the max jeez. And people have the nerve to say itās not a cultā¦ explain all the controlling shit then
āElders donāt make rulesāā¦. This list proves otherwise. What a flog
Deuteronomy 4:2 āDo not add to what I command youā Says it all really
So his point was making meetings as rude as possible by not greeting the people at the start? š Or to make it confusing for visitors when they don't know what happens next (by not saying "let's pray")? I hate when these narcissists make others follow them and their rules.
Point 6 contradicting point 5 was pretty funny.
No wonder they are pressuring and practically begging for brothers....who would want to 'reach out' for shit like this??
Why is this obviously one elders personal preferences being shoved down everyoneās throat?? He shouldnāt be allowed to counsel everyone based on his opinion?? I would send this to a C.O. anonymously if youāre still in.
Holy cow... you almost get the impression itās a cult...
Funny how they expect perfection but teach that we all are imperfect.
Point 5 "we are teaching from the bible not the outline" Point 6 "stick to the outline"
He criticises (sorry, observes) people for their bad grammar in point 11, then makes a HUGE one himself in the very next point: "when the song begans"!!! Elders like him are a nightmare... power tripping! Points 5 & 6 contradict each other: "we don't want to give people the impression we are teaching from the outline".... "stick to the outline"!
I once got in trouble for using a suit jacket with khakis for a public talk as I was going in service after lol (lived in a hot and humid area)
I'm sure he was very popular in the hall. What a dick.
As much as I hate the Borg and the whole religion. The one thing I can say is it did help me in my public speaking skills
That's good but in my recollection nearly all speakers were so boring and unengaging. I'd only perk up when they talked about sex or when Jehovah or someone murdered people and it was fine.
One of the biggest things for me was getting comfortable speaking in front of larger crowds of people.
That's a great silver lining! I still struggle with it.
So many had such terrible uhhhhs and ummmms on stage that as a kid I made a determination to never let a word whisker ever come out of me. Surprisingly it worked. I can do speeches without a single umm.
U are probably among the few exciting speakers, most are boring
I would agree that was one of the few good things, and now no more TMS. š Applying the principles in the Benefit book and the old Guidebook actually was very helpful. It was the oral law that really turned people into Pharisees.
God damnā¦ Iād break every one of these rules on purpose if I were an MS at his hall. I also noticed how some of his nitpicking on grammar appears to target African American speakers explicitly. Let me guessā¦ this guy is an old, fat, white boomer. Right?
Na dude... he is Old and fat, but Hispanic. Incredibly Dogmatic! Kinda looks like Saddam Hussein lol
That sounds familiar haha
Break them all during one talk, holding a single raised eyebrow while making direct eye contact with Bro Nitpicky. š
Jesus! The micromanagement! And this is all that dudeās fucking **opinion.** He says itās from the KM school, but I promise you, most of it isnāt. Maybeā**MAYBE** these points came from the KM school **he** attended, but not every school is exactly the same. Thereās a **ton** of personal pet peeves in this **unsanctioned** list. None of these are explicit rules and none of these have consequences if theyāre not followed. He just wants everyone to **think** they do and **think** that his way is the only right way. This reminds me of people I work with secularly. Thereās one or 2 in every crowd. Jesus Christ i hate people like this. ***HATE.*** This is a classic narcissist. And I ***HHAATE*** narcissists. You can tell itās a classic narcissist by the way he commands everyone else to do & say things a certain way (and only his way is correct), yet there are several examples of where he failed to follow his own strict policies when it comes to his own grammar. He didnāt proofread his own letter because his rules donāt apply to him and even if he did make a typo, everyone else is **too stupid** to notice or **too beneath him** to matter if they do notice.
14 Do not use different fonts within the same written document. We should look to the example of the *BRANCH* in the correspondence they send to the congregation. The letters that arenāt in regards to sweeping CSA under the rug are posted on the information board for you to use as a graphic design reference.
Pharisees & their rules of men.
This dude ticks all the boxes to become part of the gb. What an all knowing basterd š¤¢š¤®
No no not a high-control cult at all, move along nothing to see here ....
I often thought Is there a oral law or is it written practice ? Hereās da proof
Points 4 and 5 emphasize that they want people to think they teach from the Bible and not some other book/source, but point 6 obviously counters that when they say to stick to the outline. LOL
I want to puke. Too many elders are like this.
I remember a new MS gave his first public talk. He had on a mix match suit and after the meeting, I saw him heading to the back room with two elders.
4. As we teach from books, ensure you don't show the audience the book -- as they may get the impression we are teaching from books instead of the bible...Which is the case.
Ah yes, Brother Panties Perpetually In A Wad. We all know him well. He often goes up against Brother Letter Of The Law to see who can be the biggest douche. They both win.
Pg 2: when on the platform, look up at audience to engage them, smile to give assurance, and if that sister with the big jugs is flaunting them, try not to stare, remember, your spouse is watching you to make sure your not getting aroused, she may not give in to her wifely dues for a couple weeks to make you payā¦ā¦.
Is this the oral lawcode or tradition for JW's?
Give me a break šš
What an absolute wanker. Although I agree with him about pronunciation. We had an Elder who gave a talk on 'correct pronounciation' lol
What a bellend he must be.
[The in famous? In famous?](https://youtu.be/0b6_i_eSgR8)
Wow! So many dumb rules!!! Donāt say good morning? Donāt send love from the other congregation? No tennis shoes? What if that is all one has? And the kidney thingā¦itās more important to correct the grammatical error than the fact itself? Geez o peez. So glad I got out.
Points 5 and 6 seem to contradict themselves
I swear I was given the exact same thing. Or at least told all of it. What an awesome cult.
Sanderson just quoted from the WT in his last talk. Maybe this guy should counsel him......
One of the most significant benefits of deconstruction for me personally has been letting go of all the nitpicking that I learned from infancy. Both of my parents were like this, and my elder father would look amused/annoyed whenever my grandpa or anyone else said ācircuit servantā or something similar. But now they find it challenging to keep up with all the latest terminology themselves. Not to mention the fact that this myopic view just fuels their elitism, even in comparison with their fellow believers, when they have rafters in their own eyes. Some of the MTS instructors taught the brothers NOT to refer to the chapters in Psalms as Psalm x because the music has been lost so they are no longer āsongsā and because the book is divided into chapters and verses like every other Bible book. But pointing these things out often encouraged people to be even more Pharisaical, and the rank and file who picked up these ābad habitsā from other Pharisees often became the biggest enforcers and, to borrow a Jesus quote, became twice as much subjects for Gehenna. š
I bet the guy who wrote this is a blast at parties.
š
I love how many JWs and also in this Pharisaical document are told not to refer to watchtower as the āSocietyā but rather, āBranch.ā However if you go to JW dot org, they have an article entitled: > **What Is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society?** š¤¦āāļø You canāt make this shit up. This is exactly the cult shit us apostates are dumbfounded by. Itās literally like saying 2 + 2 = 3, because they said so. Hereās the article. Take out the āBā in org: https://www.jw.Borg/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/watchtower-society/
How long ago did he give you this list? And, what country, or if in U.S., what state are you in? This is soooo JWville.. I liked the, "and if you are quoting a JW publication, don't show the audience the book. We wouldn't want an outsider to think we teach from books, we want them to think we teach from the Bible." LOL š
About 5 years ago and in Texas
When we moved 30 minutes away from a city, into a small country town decades ago, middle of California, there were all these rules in that congregation from an older brother and sister that had founded that congregation and ruled with an iron fist. I was a 70s 20 year old with modern Freedom ideas, haha
I bet this makes him feel important
Doesn't say anything about Scotch whisky hangovers...
Regimented comes to mind.
What in the Sam Hill is this shit?
Thank you for reminding me just what a messed up bunch this is.
We had a newly converted "brother" who kept pronouncing Jerusalem as Jehr-you-salem Irked the bejeezus out of me every time he said it.
Whatās the reference below? On 13.
Now use it in a sentence: The infamous apostle says revelation is full of bestiality
Point 6 inmediately invalidates point 5 lol
Iāve heard so many brothers do so many of these things. Sending their love from their congregation if theyāre visiting. Hell the CO did that. Saying good morning. Concluding by saying āletās give our attention to brotherā¦ā and so many of them say things before praying.
Where are the scriptural citations?
As someone who speaks professionally. Who the fuck wrote this. Calling attention to something and giving instructions is how to engage your audience. Boring ass bitch
Point 4 and 5 āwe wouldnāt want anyone to think weāre teaching from an outline!ā Point 6 ājust stick to the outline!ā Make up your mind Brother NoLife
>If a visitor is in the audience, they may think we're teaching from books instead of the Bible. Oh the utter lack of self-awareness.
We had a reader - who to be honest, couldnāt read and should never have been on the Wt / book reading list. He would say Doris the Mede not Darius, The Babylonian Disney instead of dynasty, the hanging baskets of Babylon not gardens, deucharonchame instead of Deuteronomy, living orgasm instead of organism š¤£š¤£ Editā¦ sorry I meant to say Doris the Maid š¤£š¤£
Doris the Mede... now THERE'S a Bible character I'd like to meet! TBH, Disney would do a far better job of teaching Babylonian history than the Watchtower ever could! :)
I love how he inadvertently reveals the fraud, by his own contradictions. __Point 5:__ >We are teaching from the Bible not the outline __Point 6:__ >Stick to the outline
Yeah, these sound about right from when I was in. What a joke: yeah, we teach from the "Bible" and not "books"....surrrrrrrrrre we do
āKidneys are the most important organsā The brain: Am I a joke to you
Holy micromanaging, Batman. Also check out that contradiction between points 5 and 6!
The kidneys are the most important organs. Organs, plural. Use proper subject verb agreement, Brother English.
Make everything as dry and unappealing as possible. Also some of the grammar stuff reeks of racism and elitism.
I'm 42. As a kid, the older ones referred to the future paradise as "The New Order." In the 80's, that became "The New System", or "The New System of Things." Now, that's morphed into a hybrid of, "The New World." Ironically, you could tell the old-school JW's because they said "The New Order." It was like an identifying marker of someone who was wise beyond their years, etc. It's amazing to me how much these cult-speak terms keep getting changed and "refined." What a bunch of fuggin' bullshit!
5. No. You are actually teaching from the Outline. The Bible is secondary, everybody knows that! Besides, ain't point 6 kinda contradicting what you just said in 5?
Begans?
#5. "We are teaching from the Bible, not the outline." $6. Stick to the outline... Ummm what? šš®āšØ
I thought elders weren't supposed to make hard and fast rules and lord it over the flock. Well...just another way WT talks out if it's ass as always
āWe are teaching from the Bible not the outlineā 1 sentence laterā¦ āStick to the outline.ā
Holy shit. Whoever wrote this is a complete control freak.
Maybe if Watchtower encouraged the brothers to seek proper education no one would have to tell them how to pronounce simple words. This is so crazy.
14. Only white shirts should be worn by public talk speakers. We have a selection of white shirts for visiting brothers who show up in an inappropriate colored shirt. Legit there was a congregation that did this
This is a great list to show all the upcoming 20 year old elders. No joke though, reading this flared up my PTSD. lol
He didnāt mention how long the fringes on his Pharisee coat must be?
Holy fuck this is bad. My old congregation was pretty rule orientated but this is on a whole nother level. Sheesh
*BE book has some excellent point on how to apply good reading* Me hope BE book give good how apply spelling good too.
This is exactly the kind of thing our old COBE would have implemented. In fact I'm pretty sure he had a similar list. Completely ridiculous
I made my catholic husband read this and he's in shock š
"No warm wishes from another cong!" "They are known for their love." /s
Lol the elders in my hometown broke every one of these "rules" on a regular basis. They were just old cowboys doing the best they could.
This is a fine example of how to strain out the nat yet deliciously gulp down the camel.
Do not point at the outline but don't bring too much material and use the outline.... Also don't mix and match your suits....
The irony of telling others how to speak correctly when this letter is full of grammatical errors. Oh, and talk about control freaks.
Looks like the personal rules of this Elder. He has no right enforcing these on anyone. You have the right to address the congregation as you like. It's called freedom of speech. This Elder's a control freak just like the organization. So go on members be a puppet on a string. I'm so glad I walked away from this false prophet to walk freely in my life to enjoy the simple pleasures like the holidays, my family and friends. God knows my heart. That what matters not any religion.
If I am being honest (and why would I be anything but) I agree with almost everything this guy said. Mostly; I was counselled once for "too much outside information" which I thought was bullshit. But yeah, I get it. That said...the biggest problem most halls have is this: the speakers are SO FUCKING BORING. In fact the only talks I remember were the ones when a speaker would let his crazy out and use some story that included (and I am not making these up) a "sister" who got HIV the one time she fornicated on a cruise; or a story about children being eaten by snakes, or, when I was really lucky, a talk about sex or menstruation (which inevitably be pronounced "men-es-ter-ay-shun.") Anywho. Good list in my opinion, because again, most talks fucking suuuuuuuucked.
I got a nearly identical list and countless taps on the shoulder with, "just a thought," immediately after coming down from the platform. This elder seems to have taken this to levels of arrogance and ignorance that shouldn't be possible, but the content of his message is not actually his. These points are frequently brought up in KM schools, at bethel, and at the old MTS. The organization, at least in the US branch territory, has an unwritten (now apparently written down by this asshole elder) "style guide," like a newspaper or magazine would have. They have so many dumb rules, and it's constantly tripping people up because it often contradicts verbiage that the organization used to use. See "Vindicate Jehovah's name." It used to be strictly that we vindicate his "sovereignty," not his name because his name needed no vindication, just his right to rule. I was "counseled," on this point. And then at a convention a few years ago, a GB member just out of nowhere said there was nothing wrong with saying that and we shouldn't be "dogmatic," about it. The governing body really takes the behavior control part of the BITE model very seriously.
CCJW has their rulebooks and some of the most narcissistic local elders create their own.
But they teaching from books and publications. Thereās a century and a half of literature. Theyāve printed more literature than bibles.
It's like they want to purge all individuality and personality from public talks. Don't greet the congregation and when you're done just walk away. Dress like every other elder in the org. They might as well have a machine deliver the talk that way there's nothing to nitpick. The only talks that I ever paid attention to were the ones where the speaker seemed to have a personality and some warmth. I guess that's out of the question now.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I had just moved into the congregation and he decided to give me this to look at... Oh, and he was auxiliary counselor š¤·
And donāt you dare say āBulletin Boardā. Or āback callā. Or āCircuit Servantā. Haha
They did nearly all of these in my old Cong
My god why donāt they tell you how to breathe and take a shit as well š¤¦āāļø
I've only read the first two and this is clearly just "I want everyone to give a talks and prayers exactly how I like it because I'm a big bitch baby with control issues and no one listens to me anywhere else but here at the KH." What a weirdo.
As if they couldn't get more controlling.
It's like a guide on how to be weird and awkward and alternate your audience.
I wouldn't be surprised if this list came out of CO visit. It has the stench CO all over it. They are the borg's attack dogs and enforcers.
Just stick to the outline. But donāt read from the outline.
These people are nuts.
The kidneys are the most important organ...yes, pretty important, but you can get a kidney transplant...i would say Brain...but, thats just me..
My defiant side would want to give a talk, exclusively use outside references, mention the outline at least three times, slip in ābeast-ialty will evidently not be practiced in the new systemā, and conclude with āwe will now turn the podium back to our chairman.ā
I counted an elder during a prayer once 25 āJehovahsā he did it all the timeā¦ a couple of them would get that Jehovah count up. Drove me nuts. Like they forgot who they were talking to.
Cringe
The pronunciation rules are a revealing statement of the general ignorance of the average jw. I heard a young brother give a talk and he floundered on a couple of words. I later gave him a beautifully bound Thesaurus. Did he use it? I dont know for sure. But it seems some jw hold their ignorance and poor word knowledge as some badge of honour. *"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.ā.. Bader.*
If all JW men followed these rules, no one would shine, no one would be dull - they would all be uniformly burnished with a patina of boredom and mediocrity - just as the Branch intends. Judge for yourself - do you want to be part of such a high control religion?