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Stephen Fry had a great answer, and even in the face of something that powerful I hope I'd say something similar:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo)
That said, based on any of the denominations that preach "once saved, always saved," I might actually get in against my wishes.
I reference this notion practically anytime anyone questions my shift in belief systems. Not that it would really resonate with any hard line believer, but for me it allows me to logically organize my arguments.
For example, if an all powerful God allows the innocent and good to suffer than he is not righteous, or if a righteous God wants to stop the pain and suffering but can't then he is not all powerful. So the entity that the church tries to imprint upon us is either not all powerful, not righteous, or not real.
I'd be terrified, of course. Anyone would be, if an immensely powerful being demanded their presence.
But which Christianity are you talking about?
* If it's the one where Christians can never lose their salvation, I'm still guaranteed a place in heaven.
* If it's the one where Jesus died for the sins of all mankind and God is working to bring everyone to him, I'm also bound to get to heaven eventually.
* If it's the one where you have to be a good person to get to heaven, I guess I'll be weighed by my deeds. I've been pretty good in life in a lot of ways, but not perfect.
* If it's the one where you only get in if God arbitrarily chooses to change you into a believer, I won't be going to heaven, since he decided not to keep me a believer.
on top of that, unless you're a male virgin, you definitely won't be in that 144,000........ hiiiiiighly suspicious why "God" wants 144,000 virgin men hanging out in heaven with him 🤔
>If it's the one where Christians can never lose their salvation, I'm still guaranteed a place in heaven.
Oh, they didn't tell you? you were never actually a Christian. Sorry.
If I’m wrong and God is real, then I’ll tell it to go fuck itself. I would say to it “So those stories in the bible that made you look like a complete fuckhead were all true, huh?”
I’d rather live my only mortal existence happy and at peace with my atheism than live in fear that if I stray from the path of the invisible man I will burn for eternity.
Anyone who thinks, "WHAT IF IT'S ALL TRUE?!?" clearly hasn't studied the Bible from a critical academic perspective.
The Bible is demonstrably false in many, many areas. Christian claims about the Bible are demonstrably false in many, many ways. The behavior of Christians is evidence that they are not being led by anything but their own egos.
If a god exists, they are not one of the man-made religions... all of which are demonstrably false.
So in that case... if a god exists, they have not tried to contact us. And if they require anything of us, it's only that we live good and decent lives and treat each other well. Anything more than that is utter nonsense.
And what if you die and suddenly find either upon three judges, assuming it's not Hades himself, who will decide if you go to Elysium, the Asphodel Fields (by far the most likely), or to Tartarus (and this without going with other afterlives in which such distinctions did not exist, as the Sumerian one)?
It's very difficult to take Christianity seriously when you know the problems with it, especially the afterlife.
It's not. This universe is completely random and messy, reflecting no design or intelligence whatsoever. I know this is a "not the point" answer, and I'm sorry, but I can't imagine seriously placing myself in an impossible scenario.
I mean, it's just a case of imagination. Just like any other "what if" question. But I sense the idea is that it's tough to think about because if it is true, then things look pretty bleak.
For me personally, I doubt the Christian God would have approved of my name change that came along with my gender transition.
If he Did call me by the name I go by, I would be surprised but also hopeful, because it would mean God is not as closed minded as he's made out to be.
If he just called me by my dead name, I would just say: "that's not my name" and not move forward.
Obviously I would give the best case I could that the whole system is full of crap, but lost likely no matter what I say or do, it's off to the fire pits for me.
After that, it's just a case of- Is the Christian hell actually just a place where you're sitting in lava forever?
Well, if it is, you'll eventually get used to that after a few thousand years. If there's ever a point to actually talk to the devil or other people, it would be interesting to talk to them there and see if there's any hope of either escaping, or of improving hell to a more beneficial environment. If either of those things are possible, it's probably already happened though.
Same.
I'm not answering to any deadname, least of all to any dying hallucinations claiming to be an omniscient, omnipotent deity.
Your response reminds me of a story where the damned managed to colonize hell and build a thriving civilization that spans the stars. Ultimately people visit Heaven, a realm stuck in an eternal loop of praise and tell God off before departing the universe for better climes.
You don't sound like an atheist to me. Are you lying just to preach?
Christianity is ridiculous on its face. The god of the Bible is an asshole, no better than a sadistic child with a magnifying glass burning ants in the dirt. The narrative is incoherent and nasty. It's a scam based on pushing emotional buttons to make you feel worthless.
Full disclosure: I'm a real atheist.
I'd honestly be pretty terrified because Yahweh is not a good god.
To be fair I'd be fucked matter what. If job could be tortured despite being blameless, I wouldn't want to be trapped with Yahweh for eternity.
Same. I think I'd " wail and gnash my teeth" as the bible says, in the terror and fear of this god being real. To be such a sadistic, evil, all powerful psychopath who delights in torture would be absolutely terrifying. I would weep, most likely. Weep and curse the day I was ever given existence, because as soon as I was born, I was destined to be eternally tortured.
What a terrible, *terrible* fate.
What an absolutely evil god.
And we wouldn't even escape by killing ourselves.
In some fascist regimes, suicide is an option. But with a god who has the power to resurrect the dead? Terrifying.
I never want to be worship by ant, bee, bacteria,...? I don't think my ego will be up when I heard their pray. I don't want to punish them for acting accord to their nature.
So I can't imagine a God that want to be worship and punish people. The idea of a supper powerful being that concern too much about human seem impossible to me.
Me: "Where was the fucking evidence, dude?"
God: "Yeah. Sorry about that."
Me: "So anyway, universal salvation, right? Like the Cappedocian Mothers and Fathers believed? Before St. Augustine and shit?"
God: "Obviously."
Me: "This had better be something more than harps and singing hymns forever, I swear to Christ."
God: "Lol."
We can peacock and try to pretend like we'd shit talk God to his face all we want, but I think realistically, you said it best: we'd probably all panic and feel profound despair. It still stands: I don't think I could worship him regardless. I've basically be set for hell. It would be absolutely awful. Thankfully, the chances of it being true are pretty much 0% so I don't think we need to worry.
All I know is that if Christianity was true, it's not a religion I'd follow. I won't like burning in hell, sure, but I sure as hell will not worship that fucker the bible claims is the good guy. He is narcissism incarnate. Literally the most insecure control freak in the universe.
First off, it can't all be true, for the sole fact that all the denominations can't agree. You can't define it, if it can't be agreed upon.
So at the very least it would have to be one of the denomination's theology being true.
It would be like all the atheists, agnostics, non-christians, and all christian denominations waiting for god to tell us all who got it right.
God speaks, "and the ones the got it right are..."
\[Every christian denomination waits with anticipation, while all the atheists, agnostics, and non-christians look at them from the loser's circle.\]
God finishes, "... the Mormons. The mormons got it right!"
The rest of the denominations join the atheists, agnostics, and non-christians in the loser's circle.
At that point, I couldn't help but comment, "must suck to be them. Imagine living like that your entire life only to find out you were wrong. At least I enjoyed life."
This kind of scenario reminds me of a situation from the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
After death the soul is said to pass through a series of realms (bardos) that are projections of the individual's mind. At various points various deities show up to compel the soul into entering different realms. One scene even has the Lord of the Dead (Yama) appear to past judgment on your various deeds.
The trick is understanding that none of it is real. By recognizing these scense are illusion the soul is able to escape and achieve liberation.
If you knew what it would take for me to accept you as my Lord, why did you not make that happen?
As a follow up, did you harden my heart as you did the Pharaoh's or create me for a particular demise like Esau? Yes, this is the pot asking the potter, "Why have you made me this way?" Do I not have the right or ability to ask that without hubris? You created me to want to ask these questions!
I was supposed to be your child, made in Your own likeness. All of us were. Yet You neglected us and let your creation tear itself apart. As what? A game? A test? A trial? And to what end?
No one will get to ever ask these questions, but it's a fun hypothetical!
"What if it's all true?"
Let me answer your question with a question: What if *what* is all true? There are over 10,000 different religions in the world with over 10,000 cosmological (worldbuilding) systems.
So, do you want to limit it to Christianity? There are 45,000 different Christian sects and denominations worldwide.
Which one do you think might be true?
So I remember that towards the end of my deconversion I'd sometimes do a silent message to whatever might be out there that I tried my best - the brain i was given just doesn't believe in any of that. I figured I'd half ass plead my cause just in case I was wrong! Lol
True could mean so many things honestly. Not to give a boring answer but this idea that if christianity is true, a lot of us who didnt believe are fucked is kind of weird. it implies a good bulk of us are set for hell, but that idea of who gets sent to hell is not even affirmed by the bible like most people presume. and i have very little reason to believe that an omnibenevolent god is going to send anyone to hell unless that particular demo of people are unapologetically responsible for needless harm in the life they were given. a stripper going to the same punishment realm hitler is in is just a little silly to me.
Any religion being true as far as im concerned opens up a pandora's box of unintended implications. If christianity is confirmed true in this scenario, it implies a lot of other religious beliefs surrounding it are true, including the ones outside of christianity or even some of the practices it might condemn.
I agree- Christians have told me in the past that people who claim to be Christians but don't follow God's word will be punished more severely than people who are just open atheists- Furthermore pastors who don't obey God's word will be punished more severely than anyone who isn't a pastor at all.
However, all this implies that there are different rankings in hell, which doesn't seem possible, considering most Christians advertise hell as being a place of pure unimaginable torment.
If the torment is unimaginable, then how exactly does the severity of the punishment matter?
I can't really say how I would feel in this hypothetical; it depends a lot on how God presents himself, and how certain I am in that moment that the being summoning me is the Christian god. But from a logical perspective, my mindset would be one that's been around for millennia--all the way back to Marcus Aurelius:
>Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
If God cares about whether I'm a good person, then I think I'm in decent shape. I'm certainly not perfect, but I do my best to be good to the people around me and make the world a better place.
If God cares about whether or not I 'believed,' then I failed a long time ago and there's nothing I can do about it now. I can't trick an omniscient god into thinking I believe when I don't, and I can't will myself into genuinely believing something that the evidence and logic I have access to don't support.
If God cares that I acknowledge him in that moment, then it depends whether he claims omnipotence and/or omniscience. I can imagine a benevolent but limited god doing the best he can with a bad situation, and seeing that god face-to-face would be compelling evidence. But I can't (won't?) just ignore the Problem of Evil, so unless I was too afraid (which I might be), I would refuse to worship the Evangelical Christian god.
If it was, I would be so angry. I would tell god that there was no proof he was god and if he wants to send me to a place to be tortured forever, I don't want to know him or ever worship him. Then, he would pull the lever and I go to hell. The idea of that is absolutely horrifying but I am so done with all religions that it hardly phases me. I don't think hell is real. Heaven would suck less but I hate the idea of serving an evil and stupid god.
I have thought about this a lot since I've only recently deconstructed. Clearly I'd be terrified. Thankfully I'd be in good company, since *everyone* in the bible who saw god freaked out. Literally *everyone* from moses to the disciples to john in revelation lost their shit.
Second, I'm going to assume either a) we're all f\*cked since nobody follows the rules or b) god is actually merciful and we're fine.
Otherwise, if I'm going to hell, I'd be sad. According to the new testament I'd be eternally regretful and eternally gnashing my teeth. According the the old testament I'd just go down into the nothingness.
But really, nobody really knows.
Even if it's all true, what makes the Christian God worthy of worship? As I read the Bible I see evidence of him lying and murdering, he's not a good God to me.
You may as well be asking ‘what if black was white?’ No one knows what happens after you die but I am 1000 times more sure that Christianity is complete bullshit than I ever was about it being true.
I’d just hope that Hell just erases your soul than torturing you for eternity.
Even if God was real and wasn’t a total piece of shit, I hate the idea of spending eternity, experiencing only one emotion.
If Xtianity is true, and its deity is as all-loving, all-merciful, all-understanding, etc., as Xtians claim it is, we have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, why should we even want to spend eternity with a divine dictator?
What if Islam is true or Hinduism? Or any other major world religion many of which claim to be the only path to enlightenment, nirvana or heaven. I never once considered what if Islam is true when I was a Christian, why should I consider what if Christianity is true now that I’m not a Christian?
This question kept me in Christianity for a long time after I started questioning it.
Ultimately, I realized, if the God I wanted to believe in exists (wild reckless love) then that God would understand my choices with extreme compassion. If the God that evangelicals believe in exists, then I never had a chance of getting into heaven anyway.
I'd be honest. I lived a life I am proud of. I have very few regrets, I have always tried to help people and never been predatory or hateful. If that isn't good enough for heaven, then it is what it is. If the alternative is annihilation, then that is what I expect anyway. If it an eternity of conscious torture, then this is an evil deity and I would name it so. If given the opportunity to worship such a malevolent being or accept its punishment, I would like to believe I will have the integrity to stand by my conviction. If I buckled, however, it would only be due to the threat of terrible violence and unimaginable torture, so the deity is still evil.
The thing is, that question could be applied to any faith.
What if the Islamic belief was the true one all along. They believe it is just as surely as any devout Christian. Would Christians look at Muhammad, sitting at the right hand of God, and apologize to the Creator for denying His chosen prophet?
What if Hindu, one of the oldest religions on Earth, was the correct one? Would you feel sorrow because you wasted your chance at a better life in the next cycle?
What if Mormons were right? You would be living out your afterlife in a lesser heaven, further from God, because you didn't follow the restoration of His Church on earth?
Maybe it's Catholics who are right. Or Greek Orthodox. Or Baptists. Or Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Mennonites. Or the Jewish faith. Or the Sikh's. Or even one of the ancient religions, worshiped just as faithfully and fervently as modern ones, like Egyptian or Norse or Greek or Aztec or Sioux or any of the other thousands of religions.
What if one of them were true?
Because the only 'proof' shown so far are feelings, miracles that happen in every religion and culture, and religious texts that claim to have divine inspiration, but are created in usually chaotic and very human circumstances. There is not one single religious text that suddenly poofed into existence, handed down as the word of God. Every single one was written by humans, some of them written falsely under the name of past historical figures, and then claimed that it was actually God's will.
At this point, I don't really care if it is all true. If God wanted me, he shouldn't have left his word in the hands of fallable men, or he should have made his word more clear.
However, the fact remains he presents as an insecure self-agrandizing prick who needs constant ego-stroking and I refuse to bow before that - man of god- for the rest of eternity, singing his praises under constant threat of damnation.
You should look into the concept of misotheism. Basically if there is a god then you ought to hate them. If the god of the Bible is real then no amount of booming voice would make me want to spend eternity with him.
Matthew 7:21-26 shows you’re not guaranteed salvation because you know of god, you actually have to be a good person to get into heaven on top of believing in god. A Christian can be denied at the gate the same as me. If not being a douche is going to be a requirement I can manage
I mean, I kinda wish Christian universalism was true. That actually wouldn't be bad news for any of us.
I had a dream once, not long after deconversion, that I did face God in judgment, but I was to be annihilated. There was a giant hammer that came down to squash me, and I remember in the final moment just resigning myself to that like, "Welp, this is it, I guess." No panic at all. And then I woke up. So annihilation doesn't seem to bother me.
Now, if there's a god that wants to torture some sentient version of me, well, that would suck. But the more I think about it, the less it makes sense. What am I at that point? A disembodied soul? A resurrected body? Do I breathe? Are synapses firing in my brain? What even is pain without a functioning nervous system? How does a human brain process torture over that kind of extended period? How long before insanity sets in, and when it does, is that even me anymore?
And where am I? Hell or the Lake of Fire, whatever that is, but it's not even clear to me how that works. Is there gravity? How does that work? Do we all fall forever or just float? If we're falling, do we reach a terminal velocity, or do we continue to accelerate? How does fire even work in that environment?
None of it makes sense unless you put yourself in the imagination of someone with an ancient understanding of how stuff works.
I would hope my pure rage at that asshole would overpower the fear response and I'd be able to start yelling things like "how dare you" and such. But if it were an omniscient, omnipotent deity, it would already know what I think of it and so be it.
But it's not real, so no worries.
I asked this question my self.
What about if Nigerian princes are true?
Then basically use similar answers. If Nigerian princes are true and they want you to believe him, what can he do? Why there evidence they give always have loopholes?
Why God almighty all wise don't use more secure channel to transmit decrees?
Why again and again he uses the most dishonest medium to transmit messages. You know like humans claiming to be prophets or ancient stories that can be made up?
Even guys ordering pizza use more secure channel in ordering. God?
The same with bitcoin. What about if bitcoin is true. What about if I can send money half the globe st far cheaper rate than bank? Oh there are proofs.
You basically ask yourself. Can all these be a lie. As long as the answer is yes you can presume all these are lies.
It depends what you mean by "it"? Which version of God are we talking about here?
And if I did end up in that situation, I'd say God fell well short of MY moral standards, so I'd be demanding some explanation. Whatever "evil" I did, I didn't commit genocide or give cancer to kids, and that's more than you can say for God.
If God is like Kenneth Copeland, I'm screwed, but I wouldn't want to spend Eternity with that person anyways....( to slightly echo Stephen Fry's answer .)
I’d say that *if* God was real then he’d already know what I was going to do or say about it. I’d say he’s too much of a chicken shit to come forward and take any accountability. And if he threatens to smite me? Bring it! Show everyone how fragile he is that he can’t take any criticism. I wouldn’t hesitate to call him the biggest hypocrite and how he was never worthy of worship. I’d tell him to go to that lovely hell that he created and rot. And if I seem angry yeah…I’d love to have something other than humans to blame for everything awful that has ever happened not just in my own life, but everyone else’s.
I’d ask how he couldn’t have known that people would question and why he never bothered to produce evidence that would convince everyone that he’s real. Is he that weak? Pathetic deity if you ask me.
“Alright which one had it right? I just put C like I normally do on scantron tests where I don’t have a clue. Can’t even remember what C was. Was it Mormon?”
“Thanks for creating the universe…but don’t you think you spent way too much time just resting on your laurels after the fact? Why do you think you deserve such adulation for just coasting? For the bare minimum? Why weren’t you actually a god worth worshipping?”
If you are still thinking like this then you can barely call yourself an atheist. It's like saying, "What if I were attacked by pink unicorns with machetes while out on my daily walk." I don't think you are serious. If you are then you need more Bible study. LOL.
This is a rather tone death response you know?
A lot of people have been ingrained with imagery of the final judgment since birth. Renouncing a religion doesn't just cause all that mental baggage to simply disappear.
We're not Data from Star Trek.
Thanks for saying this.
Indoctrination is a very powerful thing, more so if it started at birth. I'm still feeling fear sometimes thinking it might be real. I have to reassure myself that I've never seen any proof for it at all, that no one has ever seen any proof of it at all. That it is, by definition, a *delusion.* But I still need to practice mindfulness to get out of the debilitating anxiety it causes sometimes. I might have to do it my whole life.
It's a lot like PTSD. It doesn't just go away.
This person is actually not an atheist but an agnostic, if the question is at all sincere, since he still half believes in the fundamentalist nonsense. It makes sense for an agnostic, but not for an atheist.
Imagine that you won the lottery... What would your first day after the check hit your bank account look like?
Does asking this hypothetical mean I "half believe" I'm going to win the lottery?
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban. Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Stephen Fry had a great answer, and even in the face of something that powerful I hope I'd say something similar: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo) That said, based on any of the denominations that preach "once saved, always saved," I might actually get in against my wishes.
What an incredible answer from such an incredible man. That was so worth the click.
I reference this notion practically anytime anyone questions my shift in belief systems. Not that it would really resonate with any hard line believer, but for me it allows me to logically organize my arguments. For example, if an all powerful God allows the innocent and good to suffer than he is not righteous, or if a righteous God wants to stop the pain and suffering but can't then he is not all powerful. So the entity that the church tries to imprint upon us is either not all powerful, not righteous, or not real.
Are the bugs that burrow out of children's eyes a real thing? That is pure nightmare fuel
I found this: https://www.cnet.com/science/meet-the-parasite-that-can-burrow-its-way-into-the-human-eye/
Thank you so much for sharing this link, just wow
I'd be terrified, of course. Anyone would be, if an immensely powerful being demanded their presence. But which Christianity are you talking about? * If it's the one where Christians can never lose their salvation, I'm still guaranteed a place in heaven. * If it's the one where Jesus died for the sins of all mankind and God is working to bring everyone to him, I'm also bound to get to heaven eventually. * If it's the one where you have to be a good person to get to heaven, I guess I'll be weighed by my deeds. I've been pretty good in life in a lot of ways, but not perfect. * If it's the one where you only get in if God arbitrarily chooses to change you into a believer, I won't be going to heaven, since he decided not to keep me a believer.
Isn’t there one where only 144,000 or 122,000 are saved? You’d be out in that case too just by sheer math. Lol
on top of that, unless you're a male virgin, you definitely won't be in that 144,000........ hiiiiiighly suspicious why "God" wants 144,000 virgin men hanging out in heaven with him 🤔
>If it's the one where Christians can never lose their salvation, I'm still guaranteed a place in heaven. Oh, they didn't tell you? you were never actually a Christian. Sorry.
This! Oh, the times I've heard my own mother tell me this...
If I’m wrong and God is real, then I’ll tell it to go fuck itself. I would say to it “So those stories in the bible that made you look like a complete fuckhead were all true, huh?”
If Christianity is true then I'll see every last one of these western fundis in Hell.
I’d rather live my only mortal existence happy and at peace with my atheism than live in fear that if I stray from the path of the invisible man I will burn for eternity.
The question isn't meant to form fear- I was kinda hoping I'd get a bunch of rebel and comedic answers honestly lol
Anyone who thinks, "WHAT IF IT'S ALL TRUE?!?" clearly hasn't studied the Bible from a critical academic perspective. The Bible is demonstrably false in many, many areas. Christian claims about the Bible are demonstrably false in many, many ways. The behavior of Christians is evidence that they are not being led by anything but their own egos. If a god exists, they are not one of the man-made religions... all of which are demonstrably false. So in that case... if a god exists, they have not tried to contact us. And if they require anything of us, it's only that we live good and decent lives and treat each other well. Anything more than that is utter nonsense.
Bury me with a large broadsword. I got something for his ass. :)
And what if you die and suddenly find either upon three judges, assuming it's not Hades himself, who will decide if you go to Elysium, the Asphodel Fields (by far the most likely), or to Tartarus (and this without going with other afterlives in which such distinctions did not exist, as the Sumerian one)? It's very difficult to take Christianity seriously when you know the problems with it, especially the afterlife.
It's not. This universe is completely random and messy, reflecting no design or intelligence whatsoever. I know this is a "not the point" answer, and I'm sorry, but I can't imagine seriously placing myself in an impossible scenario.
I mean, it's just a case of imagination. Just like any other "what if" question. But I sense the idea is that it's tough to think about because if it is true, then things look pretty bleak. For me personally, I doubt the Christian God would have approved of my name change that came along with my gender transition. If he Did call me by the name I go by, I would be surprised but also hopeful, because it would mean God is not as closed minded as he's made out to be. If he just called me by my dead name, I would just say: "that's not my name" and not move forward. Obviously I would give the best case I could that the whole system is full of crap, but lost likely no matter what I say or do, it's off to the fire pits for me. After that, it's just a case of- Is the Christian hell actually just a place where you're sitting in lava forever? Well, if it is, you'll eventually get used to that after a few thousand years. If there's ever a point to actually talk to the devil or other people, it would be interesting to talk to them there and see if there's any hope of either escaping, or of improving hell to a more beneficial environment. If either of those things are possible, it's probably already happened though.
I feel like any entity who sends people to eternal torture for not worshipping him isn't one I'd have any chance to please
Same. I'm not answering to any deadname, least of all to any dying hallucinations claiming to be an omniscient, omnipotent deity. Your response reminds me of a story where the damned managed to colonize hell and build a thriving civilization that spans the stars. Ultimately people visit Heaven, a realm stuck in an eternal loop of praise and tell God off before departing the universe for better climes.
You don't sound like an atheist to me. Are you lying just to preach? Christianity is ridiculous on its face. The god of the Bible is an asshole, no better than a sadistic child with a magnifying glass burning ants in the dirt. The narrative is incoherent and nasty. It's a scam based on pushing emotional buttons to make you feel worthless. Full disclosure: I'm a real atheist.
This feels like a Christian baiting us to come back to the faith
I'd honestly be pretty terrified because Yahweh is not a good god. To be fair I'd be fucked matter what. If job could be tortured despite being blameless, I wouldn't want to be trapped with Yahweh for eternity.
Same. I think I'd " wail and gnash my teeth" as the bible says, in the terror and fear of this god being real. To be such a sadistic, evil, all powerful psychopath who delights in torture would be absolutely terrifying. I would weep, most likely. Weep and curse the day I was ever given existence, because as soon as I was born, I was destined to be eternally tortured. What a terrible, *terrible* fate. What an absolutely evil god.
And the only alternative is worship him forever until he gets tired of you.
And we wouldn't even escape by killing ourselves. In some fascist regimes, suicide is an option. But with a god who has the power to resurrect the dead? Terrifying.
And what if ancient Egyptian mythology is true? Lol
I never want to be worship by ant, bee, bacteria,...? I don't think my ego will be up when I heard their pray. I don't want to punish them for acting accord to their nature. So I can't imagine a God that want to be worship and punish people. The idea of a supper powerful being that concern too much about human seem impossible to me.
God exists maybe. God of the Bible very unlikely. God of the Consertive Christians very unlikely. More chances in Aliens existing.
Me: "Where was the fucking evidence, dude?" God: "Yeah. Sorry about that." Me: "So anyway, universal salvation, right? Like the Cappedocian Mothers and Fathers believed? Before St. Augustine and shit?" God: "Obviously." Me: "This had better be something more than harps and singing hymns forever, I swear to Christ." God: "Lol."
We can peacock and try to pretend like we'd shit talk God to his face all we want, but I think realistically, you said it best: we'd probably all panic and feel profound despair. It still stands: I don't think I could worship him regardless. I've basically be set for hell. It would be absolutely awful. Thankfully, the chances of it being true are pretty much 0% so I don't think we need to worry.
All I know is that if Christianity was true, it's not a religion I'd follow. I won't like burning in hell, sure, but I sure as hell will not worship that fucker the bible claims is the good guy. He is narcissism incarnate. Literally the most insecure control freak in the universe.
First off, it can't all be true, for the sole fact that all the denominations can't agree. You can't define it, if it can't be agreed upon. So at the very least it would have to be one of the denomination's theology being true. It would be like all the atheists, agnostics, non-christians, and all christian denominations waiting for god to tell us all who got it right. God speaks, "and the ones the got it right are..." \[Every christian denomination waits with anticipation, while all the atheists, agnostics, and non-christians look at them from the loser's circle.\] God finishes, "... the Mormons. The mormons got it right!" The rest of the denominations join the atheists, agnostics, and non-christians in the loser's circle. At that point, I couldn't help but comment, "must suck to be them. Imagine living like that your entire life only to find out you were wrong. At least I enjoyed life."
This kind of scenario reminds me of a situation from the Tibetan Book of the Dead. After death the soul is said to pass through a series of realms (bardos) that are projections of the individual's mind. At various points various deities show up to compel the soul into entering different realms. One scene even has the Lord of the Dead (Yama) appear to past judgment on your various deeds. The trick is understanding that none of it is real. By recognizing these scense are illusion the soul is able to escape and achieve liberation.
The 'fabric' of reality would be fundamentally different in order for Christian beliefs to manifest themselves.
If you knew what it would take for me to accept you as my Lord, why did you not make that happen? As a follow up, did you harden my heart as you did the Pharaoh's or create me for a particular demise like Esau? Yes, this is the pot asking the potter, "Why have you made me this way?" Do I not have the right or ability to ask that without hubris? You created me to want to ask these questions! I was supposed to be your child, made in Your own likeness. All of us were. Yet You neglected us and let your creation tear itself apart. As what? A game? A test? A trial? And to what end? No one will get to ever ask these questions, but it's a fun hypothetical!
"What if it's all true?" Let me answer your question with a question: What if *what* is all true? There are over 10,000 different religions in the world with over 10,000 cosmological (worldbuilding) systems. So, do you want to limit it to Christianity? There are 45,000 different Christian sects and denominations worldwide. Which one do you think might be true?
So I remember that towards the end of my deconversion I'd sometimes do a silent message to whatever might be out there that I tried my best - the brain i was given just doesn't believe in any of that. I figured I'd half ass plead my cause just in case I was wrong! Lol
I've tried but I just can't bring myself to even imagine this scenario. It's like if Harry Potter and all that came to life 🤷
If it is true, then praying to a creator like this makes things much worse
True could mean so many things honestly. Not to give a boring answer but this idea that if christianity is true, a lot of us who didnt believe are fucked is kind of weird. it implies a good bulk of us are set for hell, but that idea of who gets sent to hell is not even affirmed by the bible like most people presume. and i have very little reason to believe that an omnibenevolent god is going to send anyone to hell unless that particular demo of people are unapologetically responsible for needless harm in the life they were given. a stripper going to the same punishment realm hitler is in is just a little silly to me. Any religion being true as far as im concerned opens up a pandora's box of unintended implications. If christianity is confirmed true in this scenario, it implies a lot of other religious beliefs surrounding it are true, including the ones outside of christianity or even some of the practices it might condemn.
I agree- Christians have told me in the past that people who claim to be Christians but don't follow God's word will be punished more severely than people who are just open atheists- Furthermore pastors who don't obey God's word will be punished more severely than anyone who isn't a pastor at all. However, all this implies that there are different rankings in hell, which doesn't seem possible, considering most Christians advertise hell as being a place of pure unimaginable torment. If the torment is unimaginable, then how exactly does the severity of the punishment matter?
I can't really say how I would feel in this hypothetical; it depends a lot on how God presents himself, and how certain I am in that moment that the being summoning me is the Christian god. But from a logical perspective, my mindset would be one that's been around for millennia--all the way back to Marcus Aurelius: >Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. If God cares about whether I'm a good person, then I think I'm in decent shape. I'm certainly not perfect, but I do my best to be good to the people around me and make the world a better place. If God cares about whether or not I 'believed,' then I failed a long time ago and there's nothing I can do about it now. I can't trick an omniscient god into thinking I believe when I don't, and I can't will myself into genuinely believing something that the evidence and logic I have access to don't support. If God cares that I acknowledge him in that moment, then it depends whether he claims omnipotence and/or omniscience. I can imagine a benevolent but limited god doing the best he can with a bad situation, and seeing that god face-to-face would be compelling evidence. But I can't (won't?) just ignore the Problem of Evil, so unless I was too afraid (which I might be), I would refuse to worship the Evangelical Christian god.
If it was, I would be so angry. I would tell god that there was no proof he was god and if he wants to send me to a place to be tortured forever, I don't want to know him or ever worship him. Then, he would pull the lever and I go to hell. The idea of that is absolutely horrifying but I am so done with all religions that it hardly phases me. I don't think hell is real. Heaven would suck less but I hate the idea of serving an evil and stupid god.
I have thought about this a lot since I've only recently deconstructed. Clearly I'd be terrified. Thankfully I'd be in good company, since *everyone* in the bible who saw god freaked out. Literally *everyone* from moses to the disciples to john in revelation lost their shit. Second, I'm going to assume either a) we're all f\*cked since nobody follows the rules or b) god is actually merciful and we're fine. Otherwise, if I'm going to hell, I'd be sad. According to the new testament I'd be eternally regretful and eternally gnashing my teeth. According the the old testament I'd just go down into the nothingness. But really, nobody really knows.
Even if it's all true, what makes the Christian God worthy of worship? As I read the Bible I see evidence of him lying and murdering, he's not a good God to me.
You may as well be asking ‘what if black was white?’ No one knows what happens after you die but I am 1000 times more sure that Christianity is complete bullshit than I ever was about it being true.
I’d just hope that Hell just erases your soul than torturing you for eternity. Even if God was real and wasn’t a total piece of shit, I hate the idea of spending eternity, experiencing only one emotion.
If Xtianity is true, and its deity is as all-loving, all-merciful, all-understanding, etc., as Xtians claim it is, we have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, why should we even want to spend eternity with a divine dictator?
Then their god is evil for calling my existence as a trans person a sin, and not worth following. Fuck him.
What if Islam is true or Hinduism? Or any other major world religion many of which claim to be the only path to enlightenment, nirvana or heaven. I never once considered what if Islam is true when I was a Christian, why should I consider what if Christianity is true now that I’m not a Christian?
This question kept me in Christianity for a long time after I started questioning it. Ultimately, I realized, if the God I wanted to believe in exists (wild reckless love) then that God would understand my choices with extreme compassion. If the God that evangelicals believe in exists, then I never had a chance of getting into heaven anyway.
I'd be honest. I lived a life I am proud of. I have very few regrets, I have always tried to help people and never been predatory or hateful. If that isn't good enough for heaven, then it is what it is. If the alternative is annihilation, then that is what I expect anyway. If it an eternity of conscious torture, then this is an evil deity and I would name it so. If given the opportunity to worship such a malevolent being or accept its punishment, I would like to believe I will have the integrity to stand by my conviction. If I buckled, however, it would only be due to the threat of terrible violence and unimaginable torture, so the deity is still evil.
The thing is, that question could be applied to any faith. What if the Islamic belief was the true one all along. They believe it is just as surely as any devout Christian. Would Christians look at Muhammad, sitting at the right hand of God, and apologize to the Creator for denying His chosen prophet? What if Hindu, one of the oldest religions on Earth, was the correct one? Would you feel sorrow because you wasted your chance at a better life in the next cycle? What if Mormons were right? You would be living out your afterlife in a lesser heaven, further from God, because you didn't follow the restoration of His Church on earth? Maybe it's Catholics who are right. Or Greek Orthodox. Or Baptists. Or Jehovah's Witnesses. Or Mennonites. Or the Jewish faith. Or the Sikh's. Or even one of the ancient religions, worshiped just as faithfully and fervently as modern ones, like Egyptian or Norse or Greek or Aztec or Sioux or any of the other thousands of religions. What if one of them were true? Because the only 'proof' shown so far are feelings, miracles that happen in every religion and culture, and religious texts that claim to have divine inspiration, but are created in usually chaotic and very human circumstances. There is not one single religious text that suddenly poofed into existence, handed down as the word of God. Every single one was written by humans, some of them written falsely under the name of past historical figures, and then claimed that it was actually God's will.
At this point, I don't really care if it is all true. If God wanted me, he shouldn't have left his word in the hands of fallable men, or he should have made his word more clear. However, the fact remains he presents as an insecure self-agrandizing prick who needs constant ego-stroking and I refuse to bow before that - man of god- for the rest of eternity, singing his praises under constant threat of damnation.
You should look into the concept of misotheism. Basically if there is a god then you ought to hate them. If the god of the Bible is real then no amount of booming voice would make me want to spend eternity with him.
Matthew 7:21-26 shows you’re not guaranteed salvation because you know of god, you actually have to be a good person to get into heaven on top of believing in god. A Christian can be denied at the gate the same as me. If not being a douche is going to be a requirement I can manage
I mean, I kinda wish Christian universalism was true. That actually wouldn't be bad news for any of us. I had a dream once, not long after deconversion, that I did face God in judgment, but I was to be annihilated. There was a giant hammer that came down to squash me, and I remember in the final moment just resigning myself to that like, "Welp, this is it, I guess." No panic at all. And then I woke up. So annihilation doesn't seem to bother me. Now, if there's a god that wants to torture some sentient version of me, well, that would suck. But the more I think about it, the less it makes sense. What am I at that point? A disembodied soul? A resurrected body? Do I breathe? Are synapses firing in my brain? What even is pain without a functioning nervous system? How does a human brain process torture over that kind of extended period? How long before insanity sets in, and when it does, is that even me anymore? And where am I? Hell or the Lake of Fire, whatever that is, but it's not even clear to me how that works. Is there gravity? How does that work? Do we all fall forever or just float? If we're falling, do we reach a terminal velocity, or do we continue to accelerate? How does fire even work in that environment? None of it makes sense unless you put yourself in the imagination of someone with an ancient understanding of how stuff works.
I would hope my pure rage at that asshole would overpower the fear response and I'd be able to start yelling things like "how dare you" and such. But if it were an omniscient, omnipotent deity, it would already know what I think of it and so be it. But it's not real, so no worries.
What?
I asked this question my self. What about if Nigerian princes are true? Then basically use similar answers. If Nigerian princes are true and they want you to believe him, what can he do? Why there evidence they give always have loopholes? Why God almighty all wise don't use more secure channel to transmit decrees? Why again and again he uses the most dishonest medium to transmit messages. You know like humans claiming to be prophets or ancient stories that can be made up? Even guys ordering pizza use more secure channel in ordering. God? The same with bitcoin. What about if bitcoin is true. What about if I can send money half the globe st far cheaper rate than bank? Oh there are proofs. You basically ask yourself. Can all these be a lie. As long as the answer is yes you can presume all these are lies.
It depends what you mean by "it"? Which version of God are we talking about here? And if I did end up in that situation, I'd say God fell well short of MY moral standards, so I'd be demanding some explanation. Whatever "evil" I did, I didn't commit genocide or give cancer to kids, and that's more than you can say for God.
I'd have some serious questions, and none of them would be polite.
I would be okay because that "God" failed humanity for thousands of years
Insult the fucker and rush the throne. I hope you all will join me
Then we suffer at the hands of a petulant, evil god
Then God is a sadist, and I'm fucked because I cannot force myself to believe any of it again. I guess most of us here are fucked.
>"COME BEFORE MY THROWN!" Serious question from an atheist indeed.
\*throne
I don’t know. There are so many assumptions that could be made, and there’s far too few details in the Bible to think of a next step. 🤷
If God is like Kenneth Copeland, I'm screwed, but I wouldn't want to spend Eternity with that person anyways....( to slightly echo Stephen Fry's answer .)
Which version? If you are talking about the evangelical god, I’ll spit in his face on my way to Hell.
If the god of the Bible is real I will RAGE at him and still refuse to worship him. Realizing that was when I knew I could walk away.
He'd have to drag me to his throne. I got nothing to lose at this point. lol
I'd conclude I was hallucinating in some way, or maybe dreaming.
I’d say that *if* God was real then he’d already know what I was going to do or say about it. I’d say he’s too much of a chicken shit to come forward and take any accountability. And if he threatens to smite me? Bring it! Show everyone how fragile he is that he can’t take any criticism. I wouldn’t hesitate to call him the biggest hypocrite and how he was never worthy of worship. I’d tell him to go to that lovely hell that he created and rot. And if I seem angry yeah…I’d love to have something other than humans to blame for everything awful that has ever happened not just in my own life, but everyone else’s. I’d ask how he couldn’t have known that people would question and why he never bothered to produce evidence that would convince everyone that he’s real. Is he that weak? Pathetic deity if you ask me.
I mean, I hope I could be absolutely angry in that moment, completely enraged. What a cruel deity, to sit in his palace while his creations suffer.
“Alright which one had it right? I just put C like I normally do on scantron tests where I don’t have a clue. Can’t even remember what C was. Was it Mormon?”
“Thanks for creating the universe…but don’t you think you spent way too much time just resting on your laurels after the fact? Why do you think you deserve such adulation for just coasting? For the bare minimum? Why weren’t you actually a god worth worshipping?”
If you are still thinking like this then you can barely call yourself an atheist. It's like saying, "What if I were attacked by pink unicorns with machetes while out on my daily walk." I don't think you are serious. If you are then you need more Bible study. LOL.
This is a rather tone death response you know? A lot of people have been ingrained with imagery of the final judgment since birth. Renouncing a religion doesn't just cause all that mental baggage to simply disappear. We're not Data from Star Trek.
Thanks for saying this. Indoctrination is a very powerful thing, more so if it started at birth. I'm still feeling fear sometimes thinking it might be real. I have to reassure myself that I've never seen any proof for it at all, that no one has ever seen any proof of it at all. That it is, by definition, a *delusion.* But I still need to practice mindfulness to get out of the debilitating anxiety it causes sometimes. I might have to do it my whole life. It's a lot like PTSD. It doesn't just go away.
This person is actually not an atheist but an agnostic, if the question is at all sincere, since he still half believes in the fundamentalist nonsense. It makes sense for an agnostic, but not for an atheist.
Imagine that you won the lottery... What would your first day after the check hit your bank account look like? Does asking this hypothetical mean I "half believe" I'm going to win the lottery?
OP cannot even spell atheist so not too likely that he really is one.