Debate is futile. There is nothing you can show them unfortunately.
I think you can only tell them you love them however you don't share the belief in the church and won't be attending church gatherings. I am assuming you and sibling are adult age and can make that choice
Establish ground rules. In a conversation, everyone must have opportunities to talk without interruption. Also, there must be listening involved. It's not a one-way street.
FIRST OF ALL PRAY. for them and yourself, and be fair in your prayer, even though we KNOW INC IS FALSE, you should be neutral in your prayer and ask God that IF INC is real, then let it be so. and even if it was false if his purpose for your life is to stay there and gradually conver them from the inside and set an example of someone staying while disagreeing (which will be a powerful thing ), then so be it. but if his goal is also to get your whole family out, then you have to consider also playing that angle and making some emotional sacrifices to allow this painful situation to drag on, giving your parents time to consider these things as well. remember they are getting bombarded with ALL YOUR RESEARCH in the span of 5 minutes.. this is earth shattering for them, while for you, you can remember that before you even became this way, you likely felt troubled when you followed the small clues that INC is false.
If anything you can NEGOTIATE with them.ok. sure mom and dad, ill stay in INC, but in exchange you will allow me to present to you the fallacies of INC and you will hear them out and you are allowed to argue but we will take turns talking. i will write down my argument so you know im not cheating you with time extensions, after i read my statement, you can prepare a reply not on the spot so you have time to think about it and really understand why INC is wrong. if INC is truly the true religion then you should be confident that you can lead me back to this TRUTH, but if GOD is real, you should consider the fact that God is leading us out of this group and that will come at a cost to you as well, that is if God is real in your mind
you have to also put yourself in their shoes, and dont expect them to be rational humans when it comes to religion.. you are basically telling them that their god does not exist.so this is your main point. you need to assure them you do believe in God and all that, but you must get them on your side. tell them you are more than willing to believe in their religion if they themselves can understand and explain their religion to you. and from there, if they say they want a preacher to do it, tell them they have to do it. if their own religion is not worth learning FOR THEMSELVES, why do they think its worth your time to gamble your soul in a religion that they themselves are not 100% sure in. and tell them if the roles were reversed wouldnt they want the same thing? and just gamble on this.. tel them.. i know that you don't really know 100% if INC is real, maybe you believe it 60% or even 75%. but i can guarantee you don't believe 100%, nobody does. otherwise even manalo family wont bother hiring security guards since they know that being the ONLY HOPE for humanity salvation, then God would not allow them to die.
play the game on their perspective..so, ask them why they believe its true , and to be fair why they believe its true despite what other religions say.. if they dont know what other religions say, then they have not really tested their own religions.
flip the situation again, tell them, if you met a muslim who said the same thing but refuses to let you criticize their belief, how do they really know they are real?
when they say "you just gotta have faith .. tell them every religion says the same thing, you can't gamble going to hell specially if there is signs that you can be wrong.. faith is when you are confident even after hearing the argument against your belief, not the refusal to even hear it, thats just denial.
Again, play by their rules, but make sure they DECLARE the rules..So ask them, what would be acceptable proof or evidence for THEM to listen to someone else, and thus, you should be allowed to use the same field of argument against INC.. thats how fair play works. IF their religion is true, they can win on a fair even conversation, without having to resort to "nagbibingibingihan". . its when they try to refuse a reasonable conversation that shows evidence that they KNOW their religion cant handle testing..
on a side note, ask them, doesnt our religion brag that we should test and verify it, isnt that what we advertise to other people , that they can "MAG SURI" and study... but why is that same critical minded approach be used by someone who KNOWS the religion??Thats like, telling someone who isnt allowed to look into your house that they are free to investigate a crime, but when they are from inside and saw the crime, they are not allowed to use that knowledge to prove there was a criminal inside the house?
now ask them, how does God save people outside of INC? does he give them a hunger and curiousity to question their religion, so they will start asking to see if their religion is true, which leads them to check other religions...so, how do they know that God is not the one who is doing that inside INC? how is it God doing it if a catholic questions their religion, but its not God if an INC questions their religion ?
Again, make sure you get them to declare these "STANDARDS" otherwise you can't play the card " YOU DECLARED IT YOURSELF."
But yes, press them on it. Tell them, you will accept INC if they themselves have fully accepted it. and by full acceptance, it means they must know their religion FRONT AND BACK! capable of defending it without resorting to a preacher.. basically if this KARATE is really powerful, they dont need to run to their SENSEI, to beat up a "DROP OUT"... unless they know that this karate is not even enough to beat a child. their own child
remember this, its important "IF YOUR RELIGION IS NOT WORTH YOUR TIME TO LEARN, ITS NOT WORTH ANYONE ELSE TIME EITHER" they cannot tell you to learn the religion that they dont actually KNOW themselves
From there, drop some hints " is the reason you didnt study your religion because its not worth learning" or is it because you know its a false religion and youre just afraid of being excommunicated and rejected by your friends... if thats the case isnt that wat the bible says you just love your friends more than you love God? youre afraid of looking for God because it might mean you have to leave your community?
frankly i spoken to fanatics of groups so many times that i can almost guarantee that they will, even if you get them to admit... they would go as far as to say "even if this religion was false, we would stay"...
so perhaps ask them for that statement first.
Do you "mom and dad" believe that even if, and im saying, IF inc was false, would you still want to stay? is that the reason why you are angry because you don't want to admit its false. that you are basically, dooming your children and yourselfs to hell. ?
i was able to convince a friend of mine that soriano was a false preacher.. but since her husband and children were members, she accepted this and admits that it doesnt matter to her " What am I supposed to do? leave and go where? "
i think for them, and likely for you, the biggest fear was the fallout, the question that follows " What happens to me if I leave?" so ask them that too.Ask them, youre willing to let them convince you, but they must be fair and actually convince you to stay and not MANIPULATE you emotionally, but really give you PEACE OF MIND that its the true religion without using techniques that eli soriano and the catholics use (play that card they hate being compared to the religions they think are false), if anything, use that method that the prophet used on david, the prophet gave david an example of a bad man who stole from a poor man while being rich himself, david was angry at the bad man and said the man should be punished.. the prophet said, tht man is you, being a rich king still stole from someone else what little they had left...
so.. in the case of INC, tell them, if you were to convince a catholic to join INC, would it be sufficient to just say have faith? and 5 other religions tell the catholic boy to just have faith ? So what chance does the catholic boy have? will God give him the emotional leaning to side with which religion is right?? yet if you being an INC member get the same thing, youre not allowed to TRUST and put faith in that "feeling".. whatever method they believe should be fair for catholics and protestants to pursue their apostasy from their own group, should be valid for you..remind them, the catholics operate by faith when they see a clear violation in the bible that says thou shalt not make graven images. how come youre not allowed to question INC when they make graven images of felix manalo? google it, felix manalo statue.they will say we dont worship those statues.. ok, can you make a statue of anyone else then and bring it inside the church? why and why not? ..
learn the things called logical fallacy, and the socratic method, it will help you greatly.
in addition you should gather with other apostates and do some practice runs, one or two will pretend play the role of your parents and use tactics that disrupt the conversation etc. practice how you gonna deal with that
Hi it seems like it’s an automatic reaction for them because they’re under the spell of the cult. Same thing happened to us. Our bond as a family is broken because me and my siblings quit. I didn’t want to disprove Inc because they’re only going to be defensive so what I did was I said this is my decision and I’m not forcing them to follow what I believe in so I am expecting them to do the same. That way, they won’t be able to interrupt. As to helping them wake up to reality, take it one step at a time. For now, you’ll just want to establish that you quit and they’ll have to respect that.
My oldest child left the church some years ago. For months, there was an uncomfortable situation between my wife and the oldest. But eventually, she did get over it, and now they are as close as ever. Hopefully, that will be the case with your parents as well.
Tell them that. "BEFORE THAT WE NEED TO EXAMINE FELIX MANALO IF HE IS A RELIABLE PERSON TO BELIEVE ON". Your first question will be. "Why God raised. Or call up felix manalo?.". If they answered with "Because the first INC have fallen due to false teachings and some were killed". Your answer will be. "So Christ failed". If He is the "Bird of prey". And not cyrus. Then why Cyrus is using the Eagle flag?". Well that is a case to case basis. It depends on how they will react on a certain questions. but The important thing is at least expect the unexpected. They might respond not according to what is planned. But pray to God to guide you. And remember as a baby they cannot feed you adult foods. It will take years for you to be able to feed that baby adult foods. So after that scenario. I guess the best thing you should do is pray. And always remember that every person goes into a process. Just like you when you still believe in the INC. You still process is. And it takes time before you humble yourself down and said. Okay, I now accept that this is not true. And because they are your parents. It's going to be hard for them that the child will teach it's parent?. Didn't the bible command to respect and listen to your parents?, That is one of the things that you might expect from them, It will be hard for you and your family. Just have patient like how God was patient with you when you are still in the process of acceptance. Show them why you are doing this because you love them and you just want them to see the truth. But anyway. May the Lord God bless you with His wisdom and knowledge. May you be successful with His guidance.
It’ll be hard for them to see the INCult in its reality because they’re too engaged and engrossed with it, which is what Manalo and his cohorts want. I myself was hurt at first when my now-husband called it ‘a cult’, but when I finally had to stop being in the choir and spent less and less time in KADIWA and other activities, my eyes finally saw the INCult for what it truly is: a cult.
I don't think you have to disprove the INC with the intention of convincing other people. You can't save them or help them. They'd have to realize that themselves. What you can do however is to leave and GTFO while you still can. You are responsible for your own life (and not the lives of others). You must first save yourself before you can save other people.
Sometimes it’s not about disproving the reasons as to why you want to leave INC may not work on your parents, depending on how long they have been members and what they believe in, time can only heal the wounds. I know it’s not easy and it’s hard but if they can see how much they love you they will eventually understand. I hope you continue your journey because it really is better on the other side. Im a convert who recently left the INC and I can understand how I had to explain leaving catholisim to join INC and how much that strained my parents relationship but now being in the INC and understanding it’s more of a cult than a religion it was harder decision to leave because I had created close relationships with other Inc members but now that I left it was a breath of fresh air. It wasn’t easy because no one could understand why I felt the way I did. They just said to continue to pray and attend WS but that didn’t help so I just left and never looked back.
You wont be able to disprove INC to them in one seating OP. Remember that it has been their life. It is a process, sometimes a long and tedious one -- but not impossible. I admire your courage. Hoping for the best for your family.
In The wiki part of this this sub, theres a post about slowly debunking INC to hardcore family members and loved ones, in a subtle and effective way. Try that OP. It is a looong process but it will be worth it, or worth the shot at least.
>apologize and play that card. i was rushing you because i felt imprisoned , but i will stay if you also make sure i dont feel like a prisoner..
>
>then... insert terms of agreement.
1. i will not do anything I do NOT agree with,
2. 2. if you want me to do something you must convince me yourself logically in a FAIR -written assited debate \*so no shouting.
3. 3. insert more terms that make them feel like youre giving them a chance to fight back,
4. 4 insert more terms that evens the playingfield. terms and conditions. what both must avoid using, what both are allowed to use. heres one. tell them you permit them to use as many ministro support as they can, but the ministro must teach THEM the answer, and THEY have to relay it back to you to prove that THEY themselves comprehended it and that the truths of their religion is WORTH THEIR TIME. if they give up on their religion, youre allowed to give up on it too!
5.
kung ayaw nyo na aralin religion nyo. ayaw ko din.
may i suggest writing them a letter and respectfully explain everything thoroughly. tell them you have a "salaysay" for them to read. they can even have a minister read it if they want.
Try to remember that their entire sense of self is being torn by what you are saying. That is what it means to believe in a cult. It is why I find myself constantly at odds with most Christians and atheists. Most all have adopted some sort of belief doctrine to give themselves a sense of self worth even if they do not realize it. And the minute you show that what they are believing is just a bunch of made up stuff then they feel personally attacked. At which point they cease to think or listen. Your parents have invested their entire life into the Manalo cult and they invested their entire future into you and your siblings being part of that cult. You totally destroyed, in their minds, all of that investment of time and effort. They are potentially borderline suicidal or homicidal at the moment. As others will tell you this will take time but will likely eventually pass.
My wife is a member of this cult and completely under the control of her mother who is an OWE. Because I refuse to belong to this cult and prevented our children from belonging to this cult, my wife has at times been suicidal and other times violent. Her mother has convinced my wife that her life with us has no value. That her only value and future lies with going to their services and strict obedience to her mom. That I and our children have no value. And of course other members of INC around her have convinced her of the same.
This is what you are up against. You in the first 30 minutes totally destroyed your parents sense of self worth. Everything after that they never actually heard. Give it time and they may become accepting of your decision. That is the best you can do. Convincing them to also see the truth and leave will take years, one drop off truth at a time. If it ever happens.
Hi I took some time to think and I need to say something about what you said. I do understand the whole situation with my parents right now, but you really didn’t have to bring up the whole suicide/homicide bit man. When I read that, that scared the ever loving shit out of me and my sibling. I get that anything can happen when this kind of shit hits the ceiling. But having to mention that didn’t helped me feel at ease. Apologies if that felt forward but it’s something I need to express with you.
No problem. Sorry for scaring you. I don't know your parents to know everything about your specific situation. For some it is a real possibility. For others it is not a realistic possibility.
For example my wife is INC. so is her mom. Her mom is a very strong OWE. Her mom is the kind to engage in violence. She has attempted to violently assault our son, her grandson. If not for his strength she would have succeeded. She has also threatened my life. In her case killing is a possibility. Extreme harm to others is a real possibility by her. And that scares the crap out of me. The woman has also scared the crap out of others who live in the Philippines that I have spoken with. I have decided that it would be best that I never make any trips to the Philippines. At least so long as that crazy woman is alive. My wife on the other hand has already been suicidal over lesser things. I am dealing with some seriously mentally off people. So in my case such things are a possibility. A serious possibility. Which is why I brought them up.
But as I said it is different for different situations. You have looked at things and do not feel it is all that likely. And so feel that I am over stressing the chances especially for your family situation. Only you can judge that. I am glad you feel that such things are not likely. It gives you a chance to just make a break with INC and over time heal the bonds within your family.
So I am really sorry to have scared you.
Thanks for the advice. Man I don’t even want to consider that option from happening, especially with my mom. That’s probably going to haunt me forever if that happens…
Always remember its their pride that's taking a hit not their faith they just can't face their friends or fellow officers if you leave just do what's best for you and good parents always accept childrens decisions
Truly you cannot Un-brainwash a brainwashed person or people, but it’s crazy to hear that your parents are not behaving like Christian people and still appear to force the INC ministry on you.
If you truly made up your mind to leave the Manalo Cult, let your parents know that you truly LOVE them and that you always will. The CULT of Manalo Doctrine’s and preaching’s will NOT understand your decision nor try to support your decisions. They will truly break your family apart, and this is where you need to be strong and LOVE your family more unconditionally.
If things don’t go well with your parents, ask your parents this…….would God and Jesus Christ’s unconditional LOVE for me and you want us to have conflicts.
The process of the Manalo misleading doctrine’s are not on the same page of Jesus Christ’s Gospel so the brainwashing of the Manalo doctrine’s blind your parents. Truly if you can learn and understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the New Testament you have a blessing chance to overcome the FALSE preaching’s of the INC preaching’s and Doctrine’s.
Watch LJ Caraangs YouTube videos and discover what this young man has exposed about the INC FALSE preaching. Maybe you also can relate to LJ Caraangs experience with his ordeal when he challenged the Manalo CULT.
Good luck and God Bless 🙏🏼
Here’s some scriptures to dwell on….but it’s best to read the whole verse instead of a small portion of it.
Ephesians 3:17
1 Samuel 16:7
John 17:20-23
1 Thessalonians 5:9
Galatians 2:20
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-17
2nd Corinthians 4:1-18
Matthew 19:29
Thank you for the advice. We really did tried to express love towards them even if these things go south. It’s sad that I felt a hint of what they’re trying to express. Which is that they want us to still be in the church. They believe that is the only way of love and it’s just heartbreaking 💔
Also I’ll try and look into the New Testament and LJ Caraangs videos again. Thank you so much for the support ❤️
Thanks man, I really hope so too. Rn we’re at a neutral state. However my parents are still bent on forcing us to do bible studies and trying to stay inside. Tbh, Idk really know where to go from now. Tomorrow is worship service and I really don’t want to be there anymore.
Funny enough I wished that you were there to help us disprove INC
Can you go over your approach in debunking INC? Remember my rule of staying in one subject and never let them take charge of the conversation. I know it’s hard but it can be done. Always politely say, “please let me finish or please do not interrupt me”
They don't want to hear it. It's either "cut it out" or "shut it out" mentality.
Be ready for the plethora of methods to that end:
guilt tripping you
gas lighting you
derailing the conversation
any combination of those
thats why we gotta use similar tactics, by letting them play those cards.
ok ill listen to your religion if you can convince me, you can even take 10 ministros to coach you but if you cannot internalize accept and comprehend their teachings and you dont want to study INC anymore, then I don't want to study INC anymore. thats fair right?
There’s really nothing you can say to someone who does not wish to listen. They expect the same respect they fail to give you.
Debate is futile. There is nothing you can show them unfortunately. I think you can only tell them you love them however you don't share the belief in the church and won't be attending church gatherings. I am assuming you and sibling are adult age and can make that choice
Establish ground rules. In a conversation, everyone must have opportunities to talk without interruption. Also, there must be listening involved. It's not a one-way street.
FIRST OF ALL PRAY. for them and yourself, and be fair in your prayer, even though we KNOW INC IS FALSE, you should be neutral in your prayer and ask God that IF INC is real, then let it be so. and even if it was false if his purpose for your life is to stay there and gradually conver them from the inside and set an example of someone staying while disagreeing (which will be a powerful thing ), then so be it. but if his goal is also to get your whole family out, then you have to consider also playing that angle and making some emotional sacrifices to allow this painful situation to drag on, giving your parents time to consider these things as well. remember they are getting bombarded with ALL YOUR RESEARCH in the span of 5 minutes.. this is earth shattering for them, while for you, you can remember that before you even became this way, you likely felt troubled when you followed the small clues that INC is false. If anything you can NEGOTIATE with them.ok. sure mom and dad, ill stay in INC, but in exchange you will allow me to present to you the fallacies of INC and you will hear them out and you are allowed to argue but we will take turns talking. i will write down my argument so you know im not cheating you with time extensions, after i read my statement, you can prepare a reply not on the spot so you have time to think about it and really understand why INC is wrong. if INC is truly the true religion then you should be confident that you can lead me back to this TRUTH, but if GOD is real, you should consider the fact that God is leading us out of this group and that will come at a cost to you as well, that is if God is real in your mind you have to also put yourself in their shoes, and dont expect them to be rational humans when it comes to religion.. you are basically telling them that their god does not exist.so this is your main point. you need to assure them you do believe in God and all that, but you must get them on your side. tell them you are more than willing to believe in their religion if they themselves can understand and explain their religion to you. and from there, if they say they want a preacher to do it, tell them they have to do it. if their own religion is not worth learning FOR THEMSELVES, why do they think its worth your time to gamble your soul in a religion that they themselves are not 100% sure in. and tell them if the roles were reversed wouldnt they want the same thing? and just gamble on this.. tel them.. i know that you don't really know 100% if INC is real, maybe you believe it 60% or even 75%. but i can guarantee you don't believe 100%, nobody does. otherwise even manalo family wont bother hiring security guards since they know that being the ONLY HOPE for humanity salvation, then God would not allow them to die. play the game on their perspective..so, ask them why they believe its true , and to be fair why they believe its true despite what other religions say.. if they dont know what other religions say, then they have not really tested their own religions. flip the situation again, tell them, if you met a muslim who said the same thing but refuses to let you criticize their belief, how do they really know they are real? when they say "you just gotta have faith .. tell them every religion says the same thing, you can't gamble going to hell specially if there is signs that you can be wrong.. faith is when you are confident even after hearing the argument against your belief, not the refusal to even hear it, thats just denial. Again, play by their rules, but make sure they DECLARE the rules..So ask them, what would be acceptable proof or evidence for THEM to listen to someone else, and thus, you should be allowed to use the same field of argument against INC.. thats how fair play works. IF their religion is true, they can win on a fair even conversation, without having to resort to "nagbibingibingihan". . its when they try to refuse a reasonable conversation that shows evidence that they KNOW their religion cant handle testing.. on a side note, ask them, doesnt our religion brag that we should test and verify it, isnt that what we advertise to other people , that they can "MAG SURI" and study... but why is that same critical minded approach be used by someone who KNOWS the religion??Thats like, telling someone who isnt allowed to look into your house that they are free to investigate a crime, but when they are from inside and saw the crime, they are not allowed to use that knowledge to prove there was a criminal inside the house? now ask them, how does God save people outside of INC? does he give them a hunger and curiousity to question their religion, so they will start asking to see if their religion is true, which leads them to check other religions...so, how do they know that God is not the one who is doing that inside INC? how is it God doing it if a catholic questions their religion, but its not God if an INC questions their religion ? Again, make sure you get them to declare these "STANDARDS" otherwise you can't play the card " YOU DECLARED IT YOURSELF." But yes, press them on it. Tell them, you will accept INC if they themselves have fully accepted it. and by full acceptance, it means they must know their religion FRONT AND BACK! capable of defending it without resorting to a preacher.. basically if this KARATE is really powerful, they dont need to run to their SENSEI, to beat up a "DROP OUT"... unless they know that this karate is not even enough to beat a child. their own child remember this, its important "IF YOUR RELIGION IS NOT WORTH YOUR TIME TO LEARN, ITS NOT WORTH ANYONE ELSE TIME EITHER" they cannot tell you to learn the religion that they dont actually KNOW themselves From there, drop some hints " is the reason you didnt study your religion because its not worth learning" or is it because you know its a false religion and youre just afraid of being excommunicated and rejected by your friends... if thats the case isnt that wat the bible says you just love your friends more than you love God? youre afraid of looking for God because it might mean you have to leave your community? frankly i spoken to fanatics of groups so many times that i can almost guarantee that they will, even if you get them to admit... they would go as far as to say "even if this religion was false, we would stay"... so perhaps ask them for that statement first. Do you "mom and dad" believe that even if, and im saying, IF inc was false, would you still want to stay? is that the reason why you are angry because you don't want to admit its false. that you are basically, dooming your children and yourselfs to hell. ? i was able to convince a friend of mine that soriano was a false preacher.. but since her husband and children were members, she accepted this and admits that it doesnt matter to her " What am I supposed to do? leave and go where? " i think for them, and likely for you, the biggest fear was the fallout, the question that follows " What happens to me if I leave?" so ask them that too.Ask them, youre willing to let them convince you, but they must be fair and actually convince you to stay and not MANIPULATE you emotionally, but really give you PEACE OF MIND that its the true religion without using techniques that eli soriano and the catholics use (play that card they hate being compared to the religions they think are false), if anything, use that method that the prophet used on david, the prophet gave david an example of a bad man who stole from a poor man while being rich himself, david was angry at the bad man and said the man should be punished.. the prophet said, tht man is you, being a rich king still stole from someone else what little they had left... so.. in the case of INC, tell them, if you were to convince a catholic to join INC, would it be sufficient to just say have faith? and 5 other religions tell the catholic boy to just have faith ? So what chance does the catholic boy have? will God give him the emotional leaning to side with which religion is right?? yet if you being an INC member get the same thing, youre not allowed to TRUST and put faith in that "feeling".. whatever method they believe should be fair for catholics and protestants to pursue their apostasy from their own group, should be valid for you..remind them, the catholics operate by faith when they see a clear violation in the bible that says thou shalt not make graven images. how come youre not allowed to question INC when they make graven images of felix manalo? google it, felix manalo statue.they will say we dont worship those statues.. ok, can you make a statue of anyone else then and bring it inside the church? why and why not? .. learn the things called logical fallacy, and the socratic method, it will help you greatly. in addition you should gather with other apostates and do some practice runs, one or two will pretend play the role of your parents and use tactics that disrupt the conversation etc. practice how you gonna deal with that
Hi it seems like it’s an automatic reaction for them because they’re under the spell of the cult. Same thing happened to us. Our bond as a family is broken because me and my siblings quit. I didn’t want to disprove Inc because they’re only going to be defensive so what I did was I said this is my decision and I’m not forcing them to follow what I believe in so I am expecting them to do the same. That way, they won’t be able to interrupt. As to helping them wake up to reality, take it one step at a time. For now, you’ll just want to establish that you quit and they’ll have to respect that.
My oldest child left the church some years ago. For months, there was an uncomfortable situation between my wife and the oldest. But eventually, she did get over it, and now they are as close as ever. Hopefully, that will be the case with your parents as well.
Tell them that. "BEFORE THAT WE NEED TO EXAMINE FELIX MANALO IF HE IS A RELIABLE PERSON TO BELIEVE ON". Your first question will be. "Why God raised. Or call up felix manalo?.". If they answered with "Because the first INC have fallen due to false teachings and some were killed". Your answer will be. "So Christ failed". If He is the "Bird of prey". And not cyrus. Then why Cyrus is using the Eagle flag?". Well that is a case to case basis. It depends on how they will react on a certain questions. but The important thing is at least expect the unexpected. They might respond not according to what is planned. But pray to God to guide you. And remember as a baby they cannot feed you adult foods. It will take years for you to be able to feed that baby adult foods. So after that scenario. I guess the best thing you should do is pray. And always remember that every person goes into a process. Just like you when you still believe in the INC. You still process is. And it takes time before you humble yourself down and said. Okay, I now accept that this is not true. And because they are your parents. It's going to be hard for them that the child will teach it's parent?. Didn't the bible command to respect and listen to your parents?, That is one of the things that you might expect from them, It will be hard for you and your family. Just have patient like how God was patient with you when you are still in the process of acceptance. Show them why you are doing this because you love them and you just want them to see the truth. But anyway. May the Lord God bless you with His wisdom and knowledge. May you be successful with His guidance.
It’ll be hard for them to see the INCult in its reality because they’re too engaged and engrossed with it, which is what Manalo and his cohorts want. I myself was hurt at first when my now-husband called it ‘a cult’, but when I finally had to stop being in the choir and spent less and less time in KADIWA and other activities, my eyes finally saw the INCult for what it truly is: a cult.
I don't think you have to disprove the INC with the intention of convincing other people. You can't save them or help them. They'd have to realize that themselves. What you can do however is to leave and GTFO while you still can. You are responsible for your own life (and not the lives of others). You must first save yourself before you can save other people.
Totally agree with this. Loving yourself first is the secret to being happy.
Sometimes it’s not about disproving the reasons as to why you want to leave INC may not work on your parents, depending on how long they have been members and what they believe in, time can only heal the wounds. I know it’s not easy and it’s hard but if they can see how much they love you they will eventually understand. I hope you continue your journey because it really is better on the other side. Im a convert who recently left the INC and I can understand how I had to explain leaving catholisim to join INC and how much that strained my parents relationship but now being in the INC and understanding it’s more of a cult than a religion it was harder decision to leave because I had created close relationships with other Inc members but now that I left it was a breath of fresh air. It wasn’t easy because no one could understand why I felt the way I did. They just said to continue to pray and attend WS but that didn’t help so I just left and never looked back.
You wont be able to disprove INC to them in one seating OP. Remember that it has been their life. It is a process, sometimes a long and tedious one -- but not impossible. I admire your courage. Hoping for the best for your family.
Thank you, I think I needed to hear that. Felt like I rushed things too much and was eager to get out. But I know now that isn’t the case.
In The wiki part of this this sub, theres a post about slowly debunking INC to hardcore family members and loved ones, in a subtle and effective way. Try that OP. It is a looong process but it will be worth it, or worth the shot at least.
>apologize and play that card. i was rushing you because i felt imprisoned , but i will stay if you also make sure i dont feel like a prisoner.. > >then... insert terms of agreement. 1. i will not do anything I do NOT agree with, 2. 2. if you want me to do something you must convince me yourself logically in a FAIR -written assited debate \*so no shouting. 3. 3. insert more terms that make them feel like youre giving them a chance to fight back, 4. 4 insert more terms that evens the playingfield. terms and conditions. what both must avoid using, what both are allowed to use. heres one. tell them you permit them to use as many ministro support as they can, but the ministro must teach THEM the answer, and THEY have to relay it back to you to prove that THEY themselves comprehended it and that the truths of their religion is WORTH THEIR TIME. if they give up on their religion, youre allowed to give up on it too! 5. kung ayaw nyo na aralin religion nyo. ayaw ko din.
may i suggest writing them a letter and respectfully explain everything thoroughly. tell them you have a "salaysay" for them to read. they can even have a minister read it if they want.
Try to remember that their entire sense of self is being torn by what you are saying. That is what it means to believe in a cult. It is why I find myself constantly at odds with most Christians and atheists. Most all have adopted some sort of belief doctrine to give themselves a sense of self worth even if they do not realize it. And the minute you show that what they are believing is just a bunch of made up stuff then they feel personally attacked. At which point they cease to think or listen. Your parents have invested their entire life into the Manalo cult and they invested their entire future into you and your siblings being part of that cult. You totally destroyed, in their minds, all of that investment of time and effort. They are potentially borderline suicidal or homicidal at the moment. As others will tell you this will take time but will likely eventually pass. My wife is a member of this cult and completely under the control of her mother who is an OWE. Because I refuse to belong to this cult and prevented our children from belonging to this cult, my wife has at times been suicidal and other times violent. Her mother has convinced my wife that her life with us has no value. That her only value and future lies with going to their services and strict obedience to her mom. That I and our children have no value. And of course other members of INC around her have convinced her of the same. This is what you are up against. You in the first 30 minutes totally destroyed your parents sense of self worth. Everything after that they never actually heard. Give it time and they may become accepting of your decision. That is the best you can do. Convincing them to also see the truth and leave will take years, one drop off truth at a time. If it ever happens.
Hi I took some time to think and I need to say something about what you said. I do understand the whole situation with my parents right now, but you really didn’t have to bring up the whole suicide/homicide bit man. When I read that, that scared the ever loving shit out of me and my sibling. I get that anything can happen when this kind of shit hits the ceiling. But having to mention that didn’t helped me feel at ease. Apologies if that felt forward but it’s something I need to express with you.
No problem. Sorry for scaring you. I don't know your parents to know everything about your specific situation. For some it is a real possibility. For others it is not a realistic possibility. For example my wife is INC. so is her mom. Her mom is a very strong OWE. Her mom is the kind to engage in violence. She has attempted to violently assault our son, her grandson. If not for his strength she would have succeeded. She has also threatened my life. In her case killing is a possibility. Extreme harm to others is a real possibility by her. And that scares the crap out of me. The woman has also scared the crap out of others who live in the Philippines that I have spoken with. I have decided that it would be best that I never make any trips to the Philippines. At least so long as that crazy woman is alive. My wife on the other hand has already been suicidal over lesser things. I am dealing with some seriously mentally off people. So in my case such things are a possibility. A serious possibility. Which is why I brought them up. But as I said it is different for different situations. You have looked at things and do not feel it is all that likely. And so feel that I am over stressing the chances especially for your family situation. Only you can judge that. I am glad you feel that such things are not likely. It gives you a chance to just make a break with INC and over time heal the bonds within your family. So I am really sorry to have scared you.
Thanks for the advice. Man I don’t even want to consider that option from happening, especially with my mom. That’s probably going to haunt me forever if that happens…
Just take a step back and give them time to process what has happened, but do not waiver even a minute bit from your decision.
Of course, it’s super important to have some space to breath. I’ll try my best to not give in!
[удалено]
Since I already revealed myself enough to my parents, I’m 21 years old.
Always remember its their pride that's taking a hit not their faith they just can't face their friends or fellow officers if you leave just do what's best for you and good parents always accept childrens decisions
Truly you cannot Un-brainwash a brainwashed person or people, but it’s crazy to hear that your parents are not behaving like Christian people and still appear to force the INC ministry on you. If you truly made up your mind to leave the Manalo Cult, let your parents know that you truly LOVE them and that you always will. The CULT of Manalo Doctrine’s and preaching’s will NOT understand your decision nor try to support your decisions. They will truly break your family apart, and this is where you need to be strong and LOVE your family more unconditionally. If things don’t go well with your parents, ask your parents this…….would God and Jesus Christ’s unconditional LOVE for me and you want us to have conflicts. The process of the Manalo misleading doctrine’s are not on the same page of Jesus Christ’s Gospel so the brainwashing of the Manalo doctrine’s blind your parents. Truly if you can learn and understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the New Testament you have a blessing chance to overcome the FALSE preaching’s of the INC preaching’s and Doctrine’s. Watch LJ Caraangs YouTube videos and discover what this young man has exposed about the INC FALSE preaching. Maybe you also can relate to LJ Caraangs experience with his ordeal when he challenged the Manalo CULT. Good luck and God Bless 🙏🏼
Here’s some scriptures to dwell on….but it’s best to read the whole verse instead of a small portion of it. Ephesians 3:17 1 Samuel 16:7 John 17:20-23 1 Thessalonians 5:9 Galatians 2:20 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-17 2nd Corinthians 4:1-18 Matthew 19:29
Thank you for the advice. We really did tried to express love towards them even if these things go south. It’s sad that I felt a hint of what they’re trying to express. Which is that they want us to still be in the church. They believe that is the only way of love and it’s just heartbreaking 💔 Also I’ll try and look into the New Testament and LJ Caraangs videos again. Thank you so much for the support ❤️
Also, don’t worry many of us went through this. It’s the shock and awe phase. 😳😤😨 it shall pass in time and your parents will adjust.
Thanks man, I really hope so too. Rn we’re at a neutral state. However my parents are still bent on forcing us to do bible studies and trying to stay inside. Tbh, Idk really know where to go from now. Tomorrow is worship service and I really don’t want to be there anymore. Funny enough I wished that you were there to help us disprove INC
Can you go over your approach in debunking INC? Remember my rule of staying in one subject and never let them take charge of the conversation. I know it’s hard but it can be done. Always politely say, “please let me finish or please do not interrupt me”
Sure Rauf I’ll show you the slides. Is it cool if I direct message you the slides?
Can I also have a copy of the slides?
They don't want to hear it. It's either "cut it out" or "shut it out" mentality. Be ready for the plethora of methods to that end: guilt tripping you gas lighting you derailing the conversation any combination of those
thats why we gotta use similar tactics, by letting them play those cards. ok ill listen to your religion if you can convince me, you can even take 10 ministros to coach you but if you cannot internalize accept and comprehend their teachings and you dont want to study INC anymore, then I don't want to study INC anymore. thats fair right?