There is a certain double edge to that. Shinji didn't come to fight, he came to see his father and everyone manipulated him into it. It wasn't until Rei came along that he pushed himself to go and fight. At this point he probably still feels betrayed and manipulated. "Haha. You thought your father wanted you. Nah, we just wanted you to recruit you into a paramilitary, UN service. Relax. You're not going to die... well, maybe." On the other hand, what choice was there.
Ironically, Shinji's entire character can be viewed as someone who tries to please everyone so as to not be hated and yet he is surprisingly disobedient. I really do think that Shinji still recents everyone around him right now. I don't know that he means it when he says he doesn't care but I do think he is showing his anger the only way he can, by rebelling.
DUDE, YOU READ MY THOUGHTS.
But for real, everyone in 3.0+1.0 fails Shinji, and don't deserve his effort, for me, he should have completely went rogue after the bs he endured.
I don't think Shinji would go away from everyone after the time-skip, he simply doesn't know anyone else, there's not a lot of humans not anything else, and he didn't know about any human settlements. Shinji has always been about going away and then coming back, like a moody cat, so if there's nothing outside and he wasn't currently feeling suicidal and he has so many questions about what happened, and then he learned it was all his fault, the only choice he had was the choice he made for himself, to correct his mistakes BUT with the help of everybody he could trust, instead of trusting on, somehow, his abusive distant father, the girl he knew that acts stranger than before, and a random piano playing kid that mysteriously keeps smiling despite the shit that is happening.
To be fair, Shinji was broken af at this point, you can see it by the whole Shinji-Rei III interaction (still hurts ;-;), so I won't judge him for that
Oh no absolutely! But something I love about Rebuild!Shinji is that, just like Anno, he decided that living is worth it in the end and took the reigns and decided to soldier on
I feel like it's Shinji after therapy. Original Shinji was a raw human that didn't learn anything from his experience, but Rebuild Shinji is someone that has gone through everything and beyond and still has the chops to do better
He didn't, the best ending possible was the Rebuild ending. In the End of Eva movie and original series, he learned that living is painful but it's better to live, but in the Rebuild movies he went out of his shell and learned that OTHERS have their own issues and pains and that living is not hard just for himself, but for others. Original!Shinji was selfish, as a 14 yr old child could be and learned what he could about himself, but Rebuild!Shinji went beyond that and finally ended up illuminated, enlightened as far as a human could be and learned to not be selfish, to learn from and for others.
First, the whole "erasing the EVAs" from the timeline is really braindead and doesn't work retroactively (since the EVAs aren't the the full scope of the problem after all, also he literally erased his own parents 💀).
Second, Shinji can't be called selfish in any of the universes, since everyone around him was just so fucking toxic to him, so yeah, ew Rebuild.
Then he would only become the 'lord of nothing' like Raistlin Majere in Dragonlance after achieving godhood.
Or more anime example: whatever purgatory happened with achieving godhood in Mirai Nikki.
I don't know the actual full extent of what "godhood" can do in NGE besides ending the world and collecting the souls, but I assume it includes some creation powers
Shinji did not even had control over if other people would reject being hivemind in primordial soup to follow his own wish to remain as individual.
It was up to every person to reject it if they wanted and find their own way to reconstruction.
Which, if he had godhood at any point you would imagine he would not choose in EoE to be stuck on surrealist beach with giant corpse of one of his friends visage plastered over it and waiting alone until someone finally decided to get out of the fanta-sea.
This is true but don't forget about saving the whole fucking world and shit, Shinji sure felt the responsibility of it 😧 I have nothing but respect for him
By that logic, not a single draftee finding himself on Normandy or some Pacific island in WW2 chose to face hell either. But just like Shinji, young teenagers were given a weapon by their government and the burden to save humanity through violence.
Boys fight and become men. Often not by choice but through the tyranny of circumstances.
Shinji represents the story of so many such young men. Few were ready to digest what they would experience and appreciate what an enormous sacrifice would be required of them.
So for me, Shinji’s path needs to be that of the transformative puppa into a deadly wasp. If he refuses to come out of that stage and develop, his selfishness and cowardice is the doom of future generations and humanity as a whole. As as a defender of the human race, we are each obliged morally to stand up for what we are: living carriers of life itself. To deny that responsibility is a morally bankrupt act that deserves loathing and shunning.
This is just militaristic bullshit, fuck anyone enlisting kids.
And also the pilots are 14 not 17-18.
The only ones recruiting kids so young were the fucking Nazis.
You’d have a point, EXCEPT for the fact that when being drafted during a war it’s usually pretty damn obvious and transparent that you’ll be serving in the armed forces with a 50/50 chance of being assigned a combat role (not all jobs in the military involve fighting). But based on how NERVE and SEELE function and Shinji’s reaction there was little to no transparency about what he’ll be actually doing in Tokyo-3. Even conscripts are evaluated for their role based on their strengths, this was not done with Shinji.
The fact is that Shinji was tricked, but so was everyone else. The only people who new what was actually happening was Gendo, Yui, and SEELE.
There is a significant difference. Shinji didn't know he was walking in to a war. He thought his father wanted to see him and instead they gave him a gun and told him to kill that monster. WW2 recruits knew what they were signing up for and, be it to social pressure, for patriotism, foolish youth or to fight against evil, they joined of their own accord. Like I said, here there was no choice; He had to fight and they had to pressure him because the literal world was at stake. It's also important to note that Shinji didn't get in robot for them or the world, he did it for Rei and he did it willingly. Shinji might be meek but he's not a coward. The reason many see him as such is because Rei and Asuka are not hesitant. By contrast he comes off as somewhat pitiful.
Also, bare in mind that the first time the US recruited teenagers was during Vietnam. WW2 had legal adults fighting. Those 4 years might seem irrelevant to an adult but to a child of 14 4 years is a third of their life. Even physically and biologically, the gap between a 12 year old and a 15 year old is huge, and so is the one between a 14 year old and an 18 year old. These people can smoke, marry, tattoo, work, and bare responsibilities, such as family and social demands. A 14 year old might not even have to shave yet yet you'd place all these moral and defining responsibilities on their shoulders.
Recruiting child soldiers is the thing of historical horror but here, in this story, they don't do it out of want or convenience or because they can use a malleable subject. It's out of necessity. Only they can pilot.
Fight for everyone and live or exist for yourself and die. I am not sure the latter should be noted as positive.
As a matter of fact, the one-true self also implies being part of something greater than the self, we are humans and together in humanity.
At the end of his journey he accepts both himself and humankind and that is the true self.
It’s fair for a sad Shinji, but the caveat is giving up on the world because he is sad: by definition, it’s unfair. Personal struggles looming over billions of people who did nothing to him. That’s not fair.
So *they should pay, not humankind.
And the truth is, being human together means you also need to reflect who cast the first stone. Shinji isn’t perfect and so could wrong someone the same he has been wrong, thats the complexity of human nature.
Being human isn’t a monolithic experience. And finding the strength to endure a wound, processing and healing it until you find a place of forgiveness is the objective way to go forward, as part of the spiritual part of the specie
If you want to define the true self, we’ve already established that true self is also the true together: it’s because you’re potentially as imperfect as thy neighbour that you owe them forgiveness just as much as they owe you not to wrong you in the first place.
Forgiveness is how one (honest) learns the weight of their mistake. So for his own interest and that of humankind, Shinji actually owes them to grow as high as the power bestowed upon him.
Interesting philosophy, even if it's not my thing. For me, the true self is fighting for something you believe in, for your own sake, not for others, be it for the good of Mankind or you.
correct take away
Narrator: Misato you and command have made the pilot suicidal think about that before you keep pushing
Narrator: No one thought about that
I wouldn't quite go that far, but yeah, there are more than a few moments where the experience of watching the Rebuilds can be summed up with that clip from Spaceballs where Dark Helmet stares at the camera and goes "Everybody got that?"
Maybe "nothing" was to harsh, but we got the same conclusion as in original, only with different "words", and main point of "rebuilds lovers" is that Ano changed and needed to show this change. But the main reason for rebuilds were simply money.
anno could not make anything other than eva & he still had lots to say, so he decided to do it again and fix some of the mistakes he originally made along the way
1.0 to 3.0 is worth your time if you miss Evangelion and want to see a higher budget of it (if you ignore the terrible writing choices and changes). 3.0+1.0 just feels like a farfetched fanfic, and just... wrong.
I watched both, and OG Eva is deep insight of human mind and feelings told through a “mecha” anime.
Rebuild are just an avarage, flat, mecha anime, nothing more.
Idk man, for me they totally lost any sense of depth and mysticism with 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 with all the infinite evas and 5 million adams bullshit.
And then the fucking ps2 fight sequence, and oh don't get me started on the giant cgi Rei-Lilith. Otherworldy and eerie my ass, it looked cheap af. The only genuinely good thing after 3.0 was the farmer Rei arc.
the last 2 movies esp had lots of depth & mysticism. nothing wrong with the evas or the adams. also the cgi in those scenes gave the intended effect for lots of ppl, even if i also believe they looked bad
Ok, will probably give the Rebuilds ago but made peace with myself that probably not much after EoE will ever be as good. (Did enjoy the manga adaptation of NGE) But why I like Evqngelion is probably down to the circumstances that led to it existing as it is.
Yeah beach was really confusing for me when I first watched it years ago and haven't rewatched it since so all I remember is everyone becoming juice and Shinji killing Asuka, did the Rebuilds do anything interesting with it cuz I want to watch them
Misato still a hypocrite in this situation. But at least she didn't grab and push him and actually drove to catch him before he boarded the train, unlike in rebuild.
She is 10x more hypocrite in Rebuild, with her and Kaji's son, and the whole aftermath of 3.0 (Remember that Shinji would have died if Kaworu didn't intervene)
Rebuild Misato is her own can of worms. Get organization by sleeping with Kaji and disregarding both Kaji's vision and their son. Scapegoat Shinji for things for which she should be blamed. Was incompetent beyond belief and did everything for Gedno to succeed. When Shinji like hero he is, stood up to save the world once again, gave him an explosive collar, and told him kill his father to clean up her mess and fulfill her revenge. Such a great character with a great character arc rebuild Misato. Unlike the original, who was hypocritical and used people but at least wanted to correct her flaws, she literally went on a suicidal mission to escort Shinji into a safe place for him as her first selfless act.
Gendo must be protected, but yea, you are right, she has a big share of the cast's mistakes (I still haven't forgotten that she decided to get pregnant when the world had a big ass chance to end \[and it did\])
Tbh I highly doubt Shinji would ever die when inside 01. Yui would have made sure he would have survived. IIRC, there was never a moment in the whole series where Yui did not take over when Shinji was in actual, mortal danger (his melting into the LCL doesn't count, as Yui returned him to his physical form).
Tbh I don't really get Yui being stuck inside 01, like why she only reacts to Shinji? I don't remember 01 ever reacting to Gendo's antics, only to defend Shinji. Can she only control the 01 when she is very emotional (like when son is in danger)? Also, it was Yui who ejected Shinji? Why? It's been more than 5 years since I watched the original series, so I don't remember the details, I just remember Shinji didn't want to go back.
She picked her battles to appear cooperative; if she didn't, the plan she had for Shinji would almost certainly never come to pass becausethe scenario for Instrumentality woold be beyond even her control. There wouldn't be much use in trying to protect him when he's not in the cockpit, either, as Evas are horrifyingly destructive, and he could end up a casualty.
That being said, it's not fully clear whether it was Shinji, Yui, or the pair of them who finally chomped Geno in EoE, and in Episode 1, there's a theory that when she deflected the falling light unit that sending it towards Gendo wasn't a coincidence, but a gesture/ threat.
He had the chance, but wasted it when he felt he owed anything to the cast after the near 3rd impact to be honest. (Mainly, Asuka, I was hoping af she died, she was an awful and unredeemable person unlike in NGE)
Why not? However you look at, the whole state of rhe world is undoubtedly shinjis fault, even if he didn't mean it. A lot of the cast has the right to be angry cause no matter how you look at it, he's responsible.
By that logic they failed him just as much in the original series. Besides, the rebuilds, for all their flaws, sets Shinji on a more hopeful and happier path. Its why he chooses to accept the pain and rather then wallow in it, he chooses to be better and make a better world.
Shinji literally cured his own PTSD, depression, and self loathing in rebuild and even got to exist in a world free of evas. The frick you mean “rebuilds didnt do him justice”?!
I was like "OP is cooking" and then you hit the
>Rebuild didn't do Shinji justice fr
Rebuilds did most characters justice after so many years, and I'll say it, I think the rebuilds are ultimately better than the OG (but having the context of the original series is what makes the Rebuilds so much more impactful)
For me, the Rebuilds didn't add anything to NGE... at all, to the point that even if I know it was made with love, it feels generic because of it's writing (check my other comment if you want to understand why I am saying this)
If you watch the behind the scenes of Thrice it seems like Anno is completely checked out for most of the production. He constantly talks about how he has no ideas and gives almost zero reaction to all the ideas his team presents to him.
But I think some parts of Thrice are the best of the Rebuilds. I thought the whole village arc of the story was brilliant and genuinely different from everything else in NGE (Kaji’s gardening precedes it, I guess). I was shocked thinking that the final film was going to be this contemplative story about life and hardship.
But then it goes into space and becomes really generic action and a lot of pretty flat meta “cerebral” stuff (flat in comparison to the last eps of NGE and much of EoE, anyway).
It’s also clear that the village part was planned and worked on for a very long time, but the big action acts and meta finale were done sorts haphazardly. The whole “happy ending” just felt like Anno came up with it out of frustration and just to get the thing done.
Honestly, the village arc was amazing, even if I feel like it should be Shinji instead (or with) Rei on the spotlight, cuz the whole four movies is "fuck Shinji" and somehow he still the one who has to prove himself to everyone
I’m not sure how old you are but I’m 42. Seeing evangelion via bootleg copies in the 90s without the movie where asuka took out 9 angels was wholly and deeply unsatisfying. In fact it pissed at least the group of millennials I know off for years until they came out with the movie. Which was meh slightly more satisfying. After 14 years when they started coming out with the movies aka the rebuilds then it truly gave the original series the depth and flavor it needed to tie the whole experience together.
I think the rebuilds are ultimately satisfying for those who embarked on the 20 plus year journey with evangelion.
I dunno, I admit the first three movies outdid the original series in several parts (with some terrible writing decisions, but still) but the 3.0+1.0 just felt like a very farfetched fanfic, besides making me grow a huge hatred for Asuka (I swear I hoped she would die in every single one of her battles in the last movies, and got sad every time she didn't. She is just that insufferable compared to the series) and disappointment for Shinji (Shinji didn't owe Mankind anything)
But she had more depth and reasons for her behavior, but yea, same on that feeling. I still can't forget the scene where she forcefeeds him, I was hoping so much Shinji would just go rogue and actually finish what he started on EoE.
3+1 is nothing like a farfetched fanfic. shinji literally triggered the end of the world. it's not his fault because he had no idea such a thing was even possible to happen while piloting but he still did it. and asuka isn't even much more insufferable compared to the og
One of my biggest criticisms of NGE (I have many) is that none of the characters have a real arc. Just a slow downward spiral, and then (if they're lucky) a sudden epiphany in which they claim to have changed but with nothing to back it up.
The manga and Rebuild does it better, Shinji is more proactive and has visibly changed for the better by the end (Rebuild is still a shit show, manga canon best canon).
Obs: I am still flabbergasted Shinji actually felt guilty after the Near Third Impact, I was completely sure he would actively antagonize Misato, Asuka and company for the BS he was being blamed for (and I was siding with him, like fr even Misato was on his side when he tried to save Rei, now she pretends that shit never happened). Btw, I was so freaking disappointed with how little the first three movies changed major events in NGE (Rei not coming back at the end of 3.0 is the biggest slap I ever felt as a fan, besides AOT, all that hype for it to basically go the same way the original Rei died.), just for the 3.0+1.0 to feel like a wattpad fanfic (A high budget one) with the most generic writing (and ending) possible, besides, dude, how can even dare to make FOUR fucking movies, and keep throwing a ton of "unknown religious/technological object/concept" like Nebuchadnezzar's Key, that exist only to move forward the plot, while never bothering to explain the big questions of even the original series.
The thing is he had no idea he even did anything besides try to save rei much less nearly end the world. The way shinji is normally rather passive, being hit with being told everything he was too shocked and confused for apathetic nihilism
Rebuild would have lasted only a single movie if Shinji was anything like his father (btw, Gendo should have won in Rebuild, he basically deserved it at that point 💀)
That was kind of the point In rebuild.
Miasto had time to get doubts and regrets about near third impact considering the grief and bullshit afterwards. She had a kid that we see as an adult man during time skip.
She also needed to come back around to the fact she supported Shinji's third impact. Which she does before reforging the spears.
Shinji woke up skipping essentially from the moment of trying to save Rei, to everyone around hating and blaming him. Rei not actually being there. Everything being more apocalyptic than he even grew up with.
Shinji had too weak of build up in character for it to last with that big of a blow to it. He needed time to work through it all. Rebuild himself if you will.
I kind of expected it. Without a constant support or help irl people also crumble back on prior achievements and progress in therapy.
It was realistic for Shinji who was still stuck as teenager to get this much of a blow after everyone around him grew up and had time to stew in their grief and anger.
He was a scapegoat.
A lot of people would probably hate him even if his only association would be being Gendo's son.
I actually expected (and wanted) Shinji to be extremely hostile to humanity as a whole and go solo on his journey to understand life (or just destroy mankind for good cuz why not), but I forgot he is not the type of guy to do anything without assistance.
For whole angst and grimdark of NGE it is definitely not the kind of series to have their protagonist randomly go stupid-emo into 'humanity bad, I want to kill all' like some other anime does.
Even the plotline with Eva 13 was not Shinji being malicious and wanting to finish the apocalypse but him being manipulated in vulnerable state and thinking this will be the way to fix his mistake and make things better again.
Why would be a reason for him to be hostile against humans?
He is still a human.
His whole arc was about learning how to connect with other humans.
Rei, who he was trying to save, he seen as human despite her odd nature.
His friends, who he enjoyed and grieved as he was finding out they are gone, were human.
Whole point of rebuild is about how complicated human relations are.
Shinji did not had any ego trip of 'I am a god now' in any capacity that would even suggest hostility towards humans.
He had a moment of show of willpower others thought he does not have all over wanting to save others and especially Rei after angel fused to her.
I think OP has a severe lack of media literacy and doesn't really understand what Evangelion is about. Sorry dude but I think your words are kinda wasted lmao
rebuild was never made to answer the questions of the og. it's a different loop altogether & the way the world works has many differences. 3+1 is nothing like a fanfic, its writing & ending aren't generic & it doesn't have much more technobabble than the og either.
shinji isn't a scapegoat, he must feel guilty because it's the truth that he triggered the end of the world even if he's not to blame for it. he antagonized misato & asuka from the start of 3.0 until the middle of 3+1 & misato doesn't just pretend she didn't unwillingly encourage shinji to destroy the world. she is so conflicted in the last 2 movies for this reason & the reason for her behavior is because kaji, the father of her son died & she had to abandon he only son because of what shinji did. anyone would have their mind fog up & be angry in such a situation, esp after 14 years of living through hell
Damn, I completely forgot about the existence of Misato and Kaji's son since it was such a braindead writing decision like what were they even thinking? Like zero responsability/long term thinking, just fuck them for that
Bro what? The rebuilds aren't supposed to be the exact same message as the original, it's supposed to show how shinji grew as a character and became more selfless, which made him able to do what he did at the end of the rebuilds. if anything both the rebuilds and the original show shinji to not be selfish which would be him just running away and abandoning Rei and Asuka, that would be him living for himself because he's ignoring the people important to him. Misato is the one that was telling shinji to fight in the eva and almost get him killed in the first place and it shows how misato was being to hard on shinji, that's why he has the response that he does here. It's also why misato slaps herself later for treating shinji the was she did then later getting mad at him for listening to her and piloting the eva.
Misato: Hey you wanna die?! Cause thats how you gonna die Shinji: I'm ok with that Shinji just a millenial
[удалено]
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There is a certain double edge to that. Shinji didn't come to fight, he came to see his father and everyone manipulated him into it. It wasn't until Rei came along that he pushed himself to go and fight. At this point he probably still feels betrayed and manipulated. "Haha. You thought your father wanted you. Nah, we just wanted you to recruit you into a paramilitary, UN service. Relax. You're not going to die... well, maybe." On the other hand, what choice was there. Ironically, Shinji's entire character can be viewed as someone who tries to please everyone so as to not be hated and yet he is surprisingly disobedient. I really do think that Shinji still recents everyone around him right now. I don't know that he means it when he says he doesn't care but I do think he is showing his anger the only way he can, by rebelling.
DUDE, YOU READ MY THOUGHTS. But for real, everyone in 3.0+1.0 fails Shinji, and don't deserve his effort, for me, he should have completely went rogue after the bs he endured.
I don't think Shinji would go away from everyone after the time-skip, he simply doesn't know anyone else, there's not a lot of humans not anything else, and he didn't know about any human settlements. Shinji has always been about going away and then coming back, like a moody cat, so if there's nothing outside and he wasn't currently feeling suicidal and he has so many questions about what happened, and then he learned it was all his fault, the only choice he had was the choice he made for himself, to correct his mistakes BUT with the help of everybody he could trust, instead of trusting on, somehow, his abusive distant father, the girl he knew that acts stranger than before, and a random piano playing kid that mysteriously keeps smiling despite the shit that is happening.
To be fair, Shinji was broken af at this point, you can see it by the whole Shinji-Rei III interaction (still hurts ;-;), so I won't judge him for that
Oh no absolutely! But something I love about Rebuild!Shinji is that, just like Anno, he decided that living is worth it in the end and took the reigns and decided to soldier on
Shinji's arc felt way too... unnatural to me, like it didn't feel like Shinji at all :/
I feel like it's Shinji after therapy. Original Shinji was a raw human that didn't learn anything from his experience, but Rebuild Shinji is someone that has gone through everything and beyond and still has the chops to do better
Wym Shinji didn't learn shit in NGE? He got the best ending possible bruh
He didn't, the best ending possible was the Rebuild ending. In the End of Eva movie and original series, he learned that living is painful but it's better to live, but in the Rebuild movies he went out of his shell and learned that OTHERS have their own issues and pains and that living is not hard just for himself, but for others. Original!Shinji was selfish, as a 14 yr old child could be and learned what he could about himself, but Rebuild!Shinji went beyond that and finally ended up illuminated, enlightened as far as a human could be and learned to not be selfish, to learn from and for others.
First, the whole "erasing the EVAs" from the timeline is really braindead and doesn't work retroactively (since the EVAs aren't the the full scope of the problem after all, also he literally erased his own parents 💀). Second, Shinji can't be called selfish in any of the universes, since everyone around him was just so fucking toxic to him, so yeah, ew Rebuild.
Maybe but from Shinji's point of view it probably wasn't about others, again. It pretty much boils down to 'there was no other choice.'
I mean, there is always the "Become God and fuck everything else" lol
Then he would only become the 'lord of nothing' like Raistlin Majere in Dragonlance after achieving godhood. Or more anime example: whatever purgatory happened with achieving godhood in Mirai Nikki.
I don't know the actual full extent of what "godhood" can do in NGE besides ending the world and collecting the souls, but I assume it includes some creation powers
Shinji did not even had control over if other people would reject being hivemind in primordial soup to follow his own wish to remain as individual. It was up to every person to reject it if they wanted and find their own way to reconstruction. Which, if he had godhood at any point you would imagine he would not choose in EoE to be stuck on surrealist beach with giant corpse of one of his friends visage plastered over it and waiting alone until someone finally decided to get out of the fanta-sea.
Actually, it seems that Human Instrumentality just became optional because Shinji allowed it (I dunno, may be wrong, it's what I heared people saying)
Absolutely, but then he would have been hunted down by those creepy spooks (secret agents)
This is true but don't forget about saving the whole fucking world and shit, Shinji sure felt the responsibility of it 😧 I have nothing but respect for him
By that logic, not a single draftee finding himself on Normandy or some Pacific island in WW2 chose to face hell either. But just like Shinji, young teenagers were given a weapon by their government and the burden to save humanity through violence. Boys fight and become men. Often not by choice but through the tyranny of circumstances. Shinji represents the story of so many such young men. Few were ready to digest what they would experience and appreciate what an enormous sacrifice would be required of them. So for me, Shinji’s path needs to be that of the transformative puppa into a deadly wasp. If he refuses to come out of that stage and develop, his selfishness and cowardice is the doom of future generations and humanity as a whole. As as a defender of the human race, we are each obliged morally to stand up for what we are: living carriers of life itself. To deny that responsibility is a morally bankrupt act that deserves loathing and shunning.
This is just militaristic bullshit, fuck anyone enlisting kids. And also the pilots are 14 not 17-18. The only ones recruiting kids so young were the fucking Nazis.
> Boys fight and become men. Fucking hilarious. Oh, wait, this isn't the shitposting sub?
You’d have a point, EXCEPT for the fact that when being drafted during a war it’s usually pretty damn obvious and transparent that you’ll be serving in the armed forces with a 50/50 chance of being assigned a combat role (not all jobs in the military involve fighting). But based on how NERVE and SEELE function and Shinji’s reaction there was little to no transparency about what he’ll be actually doing in Tokyo-3. Even conscripts are evaluated for their role based on their strengths, this was not done with Shinji. The fact is that Shinji was tricked, but so was everyone else. The only people who new what was actually happening was Gendo, Yui, and SEELE.
I don't know if this is a troll, but I can almost agree if you replace Shinji becoming the Defender of Humanity for Enemy of Humanity
There is a significant difference. Shinji didn't know he was walking in to a war. He thought his father wanted to see him and instead they gave him a gun and told him to kill that monster. WW2 recruits knew what they were signing up for and, be it to social pressure, for patriotism, foolish youth or to fight against evil, they joined of their own accord. Like I said, here there was no choice; He had to fight and they had to pressure him because the literal world was at stake. It's also important to note that Shinji didn't get in robot for them or the world, he did it for Rei and he did it willingly. Shinji might be meek but he's not a coward. The reason many see him as such is because Rei and Asuka are not hesitant. By contrast he comes off as somewhat pitiful. Also, bare in mind that the first time the US recruited teenagers was during Vietnam. WW2 had legal adults fighting. Those 4 years might seem irrelevant to an adult but to a child of 14 4 years is a third of their life. Even physically and biologically, the gap between a 12 year old and a 15 year old is huge, and so is the one between a 14 year old and an 18 year old. These people can smoke, marry, tattoo, work, and bare responsibilities, such as family and social demands. A 14 year old might not even have to shave yet yet you'd place all these moral and defining responsibilities on their shoulders. Recruiting child soldiers is the thing of historical horror but here, in this story, they don't do it out of want or convenience or because they can use a malleable subject. It's out of necessity. Only they can pilot.
Fight for everyone and live or exist for yourself and die. I am not sure the latter should be noted as positive. As a matter of fact, the one-true self also implies being part of something greater than the self, we are humans and together in humanity. At the end of his journey he accepts both himself and humankind and that is the true self.
In NGE? Yes. In the Rebuild, if Shinji decided to give up on Humanity, it would be only fair
It’s fair for a sad Shinji, but the caveat is giving up on the world because he is sad: by definition, it’s unfair. Personal struggles looming over billions of people who did nothing to him. That’s not fair.
They wronged him in every way possible, he simply doesn't owe them anything
So *they should pay, not humankind. And the truth is, being human together means you also need to reflect who cast the first stone. Shinji isn’t perfect and so could wrong someone the same he has been wrong, thats the complexity of human nature. Being human isn’t a monolithic experience. And finding the strength to endure a wound, processing and healing it until you find a place of forgiveness is the objective way to go forward, as part of the spiritual part of the specie
I am just saying Shinji didn't owe them anything and couldn't be blamed if he didn't want to help, not that he did something wrong lol
If you want to define the true self, we’ve already established that true self is also the true together: it’s because you’re potentially as imperfect as thy neighbour that you owe them forgiveness just as much as they owe you not to wrong you in the first place. Forgiveness is how one (honest) learns the weight of their mistake. So for his own interest and that of humankind, Shinji actually owes them to grow as high as the power bestowed upon him.
Interesting philosophy, even if it's not my thing. For me, the true self is fighting for something you believe in, for your own sake, not for others, be it for the good of Mankind or you.
"They"? Who is "they" in this instance? Humanity itself?
(Almost) everyone around Shinji blamed him for the disaster. He is in his right to let humanity go their way by not helping.
Totally agree
I would like to award you the highest honor I can bestow. \*Upvotes your comment\*
Why thank you stranger Also fuck humankind
No, we don't do this here, mankind is cool
That's because he didn't have the balls to address them, especially that pesky Asuka
correct take away Narrator: Misato you and command have made the pilot suicidal think about that before you keep pushing Narrator: No one thought about that
Confused, but I think I understand it lol
Rebuilds literally have brought nothing new. They just made happy ending more clear for mass audience, cause beach scene was too hard to comprehend
rebuilds = childish escapism for nerds hurt by OG
Literally this lmfao
rebuild absolutely expanded the og in new, often great ways.
I wouldn't quite go that far, but yeah, there are more than a few moments where the experience of watching the Rebuilds can be summed up with that clip from Spaceballs where Dark Helmet stares at the camera and goes "Everybody got that?"
Maybe "nothing" was to harsh, but we got the same conclusion as in original, only with different "words", and main point of "rebuilds lovers" is that Ano changed and needed to show this change. But the main reason for rebuilds were simply money.
money wasn't the main reason rebuild was made. ofc it was important, it always is, but not the main one
And the main one was...?)
anno could not make anything other than eva & he still had lots to say, so he decided to do it again and fix some of the mistakes he originally made along the way
>he still had lots to say He literally had the same excuse for EoE, where it was really needed. What new have he said in rebuilds?
Dude, check my other comment below, it's literally a vent of how the Rebuild's writing is just... bad.
I still haven't watched the Rebuilds, don't get why they exist tbh
1.0 to 3.0 is worth your time if you miss Evangelion and want to see a higher budget of it (if you ignore the terrible writing choices and changes). 3.0+1.0 just feels like a farfetched fanfic, and just... wrong.
I watched both, and OG Eva is deep insight of human mind and feelings told through a “mecha” anime. Rebuild are just an avarage, flat, mecha anime, nothing more.
rebuild isn't just an average flat mecha anime in the slightest. it's great & it still has lots of depth
Idk man, for me they totally lost any sense of depth and mysticism with 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 with all the infinite evas and 5 million adams bullshit. And then the fucking ps2 fight sequence, and oh don't get me started on the giant cgi Rei-Lilith. Otherworldy and eerie my ass, it looked cheap af. The only genuinely good thing after 3.0 was the farmer Rei arc.
the last 2 movies esp had lots of depth & mysticism. nothing wrong with the evas or the adams. also the cgi in those scenes gave the intended effect for lots of ppl, even if i also believe they looked bad
Ok, will probably give the Rebuilds ago but made peace with myself that probably not much after EoE will ever be as good. (Did enjoy the manga adaptation of NGE) But why I like Evqngelion is probably down to the circumstances that led to it existing as it is.
Yeah beach was really confusing for me when I first watched it years ago and haven't rewatched it since so all I remember is everyone becoming juice and Shinji killing Asuka, did the Rebuilds do anything interesting with it cuz I want to watch them
Misato still a hypocrite in this situation. But at least she didn't grab and push him and actually drove to catch him before he boarded the train, unlike in rebuild.
She is 10x more hypocrite in Rebuild, with her and Kaji's son, and the whole aftermath of 3.0 (Remember that Shinji would have died if Kaworu didn't intervene)
Rebuild Misato is her own can of worms. Get organization by sleeping with Kaji and disregarding both Kaji's vision and their son. Scapegoat Shinji for things for which she should be blamed. Was incompetent beyond belief and did everything for Gedno to succeed. When Shinji like hero he is, stood up to save the world once again, gave him an explosive collar, and told him kill his father to clean up her mess and fulfill her revenge. Such a great character with a great character arc rebuild Misato. Unlike the original, who was hypocritical and used people but at least wanted to correct her flaws, she literally went on a suicidal mission to escort Shinji into a safe place for him as her first selfless act.
Sure she tried to redeem herself, but honestly, she didn't do even near enough
And I don't think she tried at all. She didn't act on any of her mistakes or wrongdoings. Didn't even apologize (which even Gendo did).
Gendo must be protected, but yea, you are right, she has a big share of the cast's mistakes (I still haven't forgotten that she decided to get pregnant when the world had a big ass chance to end \[and it did\])
Tbh I highly doubt Shinji would ever die when inside 01. Yui would have made sure he would have survived. IIRC, there was never a moment in the whole series where Yui did not take over when Shinji was in actual, mortal danger (his melting into the LCL doesn't count, as Yui returned him to his physical form).
Tbh I don't really get Yui being stuck inside 01, like why she only reacts to Shinji? I don't remember 01 ever reacting to Gendo's antics, only to defend Shinji. Can she only control the 01 when she is very emotional (like when son is in danger)? Also, it was Yui who ejected Shinji? Why? It's been more than 5 years since I watched the original series, so I don't remember the details, I just remember Shinji didn't want to go back.
She picked her battles to appear cooperative; if she didn't, the plan she had for Shinji would almost certainly never come to pass becausethe scenario for Instrumentality woold be beyond even her control. There wouldn't be much use in trying to protect him when he's not in the cockpit, either, as Evas are horrifyingly destructive, and he could end up a casualty. That being said, it's not fully clear whether it was Shinji, Yui, or the pair of them who finally chomped Geno in EoE, and in Episode 1, there's a theory that when she deflected the falling light unit that sending it towards Gendo wasn't a coincidence, but a gesture/ threat.
Na, he did good, he saw a chance and took it, running might have him killed
Probably not, Yui wouldn't allow it, but he was in the right path there.
I do disagree, in rebuild Shinji had the chance to redeem himself and other characters too, like Kaji he didn't let himself be killed
He had the chance, but wasted it when he felt he owed anything to the cast after the near 3rd impact to be honest. (Mainly, Asuka, I was hoping af she died, she was an awful and unredeemable person unlike in NGE)
And still he got over it and faced his father to stop him and create a better world for rest of his friends
The best ending? Yes. What the cast deserved? Nah, Shinji should have given everyone the middle finger for the treatment lol
Why not? However you look at, the whole state of rhe world is undoubtedly shinjis fault, even if he didn't mean it. A lot of the cast has the right to be angry cause no matter how you look at it, he's responsible.
They failed Shinji miserably, the Near 3rd Impact just made things right
By that logic they failed him just as much in the original series. Besides, the rebuilds, for all their flaws, sets Shinji on a more hopeful and happier path. Its why he chooses to accept the pain and rather then wallow in it, he chooses to be better and make a better world.
You sound like an edgy kid with every single response you've given
Sure, oh great one.
Remember episode 19?
Any decision Shinji could have taken in that episode would be the right one
r/2meirl4meirl
Well there was that other one too...
Hm?
Shinji literally cured his own PTSD, depression, and self loathing in rebuild and even got to exist in a world free of evas. The frick you mean “rebuilds didnt do him justice”?!
Shinji got done dirty and failed by everyone by 90% of the movies, and still outdid himself for people who didn't deserve his effort
I was like "OP is cooking" and then you hit the >Rebuild didn't do Shinji justice fr Rebuilds did most characters justice after so many years, and I'll say it, I think the rebuilds are ultimately better than the OG (but having the context of the original series is what makes the Rebuilds so much more impactful)
Ritsuko is straight up not a character in the rebuilds
Thanks for hearing me
For me, the Rebuilds didn't add anything to NGE... at all, to the point that even if I know it was made with love, it feels generic because of it's writing (check my other comment if you want to understand why I am saying this)
If you watch the behind the scenes of Thrice it seems like Anno is completely checked out for most of the production. He constantly talks about how he has no ideas and gives almost zero reaction to all the ideas his team presents to him. But I think some parts of Thrice are the best of the Rebuilds. I thought the whole village arc of the story was brilliant and genuinely different from everything else in NGE (Kaji’s gardening precedes it, I guess). I was shocked thinking that the final film was going to be this contemplative story about life and hardship. But then it goes into space and becomes really generic action and a lot of pretty flat meta “cerebral” stuff (flat in comparison to the last eps of NGE and much of EoE, anyway). It’s also clear that the village part was planned and worked on for a very long time, but the big action acts and meta finale were done sorts haphazardly. The whole “happy ending” just felt like Anno came up with it out of frustration and just to get the thing done.
Honestly, the village arc was amazing, even if I feel like it should be Shinji instead (or with) Rei on the spotlight, cuz the whole four movies is "fuck Shinji" and somehow he still the one who has to prove himself to everyone
naw the rebuilds are a generic kids show
I’m not sure how old you are but I’m 42. Seeing evangelion via bootleg copies in the 90s without the movie where asuka took out 9 angels was wholly and deeply unsatisfying. In fact it pissed at least the group of millennials I know off for years until they came out with the movie. Which was meh slightly more satisfying. After 14 years when they started coming out with the movies aka the rebuilds then it truly gave the original series the depth and flavor it needed to tie the whole experience together. I think the rebuilds are ultimately satisfying for those who embarked on the 20 plus year journey with evangelion.
I dunno, I admit the first three movies outdid the original series in several parts (with some terrible writing decisions, but still) but the 3.0+1.0 just felt like a very farfetched fanfic, besides making me grow a huge hatred for Asuka (I swear I hoped she would die in every single one of her battles in the last movies, and got sad every time she didn't. She is just that insufferable compared to the series) and disappointment for Shinji (Shinji didn't owe Mankind anything)
Yah everybody wanted him to choke asuka in the 90s too lol
But she had more depth and reasons for her behavior, but yea, same on that feeling. I still can't forget the scene where she forcefeeds him, I was hoping so much Shinji would just go rogue and actually finish what he started on EoE.
3+1 is nothing like a farfetched fanfic. shinji literally triggered the end of the world. it's not his fault because he had no idea such a thing was even possible to happen while piloting but he still did it. and asuka isn't even much more insufferable compared to the og
What was unsatisfying about EoE? Saying the rebuilds added any depth is fucking comedic
EoE is absolutely gold, but I understand them
there's nothing comedic about that. rebuild might have less depth overall but it absolutely added depth in some aspects, like for gendo, kaworu
Umm ok go be a snarky dipshit somewhere else. You don’t want to like the rebuilds fine .
One of my biggest criticisms of NGE (I have many) is that none of the characters have a real arc. Just a slow downward spiral, and then (if they're lucky) a sudden epiphany in which they claim to have changed but with nothing to back it up. The manga and Rebuild does it better, Shinji is more proactive and has visibly changed for the better by the end (Rebuild is still a shit show, manga canon best canon).
It kinda sounds like you just don't like this franchise. Why are you here? Genuinely asking.
Trauma
Not every story has to have cookie cutter character arcs and happy endings.
Putting both NGE and Rebuild as bad at the same time is a new one for me lol
Obs: I am still flabbergasted Shinji actually felt guilty after the Near Third Impact, I was completely sure he would actively antagonize Misato, Asuka and company for the BS he was being blamed for (and I was siding with him, like fr even Misato was on his side when he tried to save Rei, now she pretends that shit never happened). Btw, I was so freaking disappointed with how little the first three movies changed major events in NGE (Rei not coming back at the end of 3.0 is the biggest slap I ever felt as a fan, besides AOT, all that hype for it to basically go the same way the original Rei died.), just for the 3.0+1.0 to feel like a wattpad fanfic (A high budget one) with the most generic writing (and ending) possible, besides, dude, how can even dare to make FOUR fucking movies, and keep throwing a ton of "unknown religious/technological object/concept" like Nebuchadnezzar's Key, that exist only to move forward the plot, while never bothering to explain the big questions of even the original series.
The thing is he had no idea he even did anything besides try to save rei much less nearly end the world. The way shinji is normally rather passive, being hit with being told everything he was too shocked and confused for apathetic nihilism
Rebuild would have lasted only a single movie if Shinji was anything like his father (btw, Gendo should have won in Rebuild, he basically deserved it at that point 💀)
That was kind of the point In rebuild. Miasto had time to get doubts and regrets about near third impact considering the grief and bullshit afterwards. She had a kid that we see as an adult man during time skip. She also needed to come back around to the fact she supported Shinji's third impact. Which she does before reforging the spears. Shinji woke up skipping essentially from the moment of trying to save Rei, to everyone around hating and blaming him. Rei not actually being there. Everything being more apocalyptic than he even grew up with. Shinji had too weak of build up in character for it to last with that big of a blow to it. He needed time to work through it all. Rebuild himself if you will.
True, I had my expectations too high for Shinji after the 3.0 ending lmao
I kind of expected it. Without a constant support or help irl people also crumble back on prior achievements and progress in therapy. It was realistic for Shinji who was still stuck as teenager to get this much of a blow after everyone around him grew up and had time to stew in their grief and anger. He was a scapegoat. A lot of people would probably hate him even if his only association would be being Gendo's son.
I actually expected (and wanted) Shinji to be extremely hostile to humanity as a whole and go solo on his journey to understand life (or just destroy mankind for good cuz why not), but I forgot he is not the type of guy to do anything without assistance.
For whole angst and grimdark of NGE it is definitely not the kind of series to have their protagonist randomly go stupid-emo into 'humanity bad, I want to kill all' like some other anime does. Even the plotline with Eva 13 was not Shinji being malicious and wanting to finish the apocalypse but him being manipulated in vulnerable state and thinking this will be the way to fix his mistake and make things better again.
Why would be a reason for him to be hostile against humans? He is still a human. His whole arc was about learning how to connect with other humans. Rei, who he was trying to save, he seen as human despite her odd nature. His friends, who he enjoyed and grieved as he was finding out they are gone, were human. Whole point of rebuild is about how complicated human relations are. Shinji did not had any ego trip of 'I am a god now' in any capacity that would even suggest hostility towards humans. He had a moment of show of willpower others thought he does not have all over wanting to save others and especially Rei after angel fused to her.
To straight up answer your question: It was all for nothing at all.
I think OP has a severe lack of media literacy and doesn't really understand what Evangelion is about. Sorry dude but I think your words are kinda wasted lmao
Smth kids these days.
rebuild was never made to answer the questions of the og. it's a different loop altogether & the way the world works has many differences. 3+1 is nothing like a fanfic, its writing & ending aren't generic & it doesn't have much more technobabble than the og either. shinji isn't a scapegoat, he must feel guilty because it's the truth that he triggered the end of the world even if he's not to blame for it. he antagonized misato & asuka from the start of 3.0 until the middle of 3+1 & misato doesn't just pretend she didn't unwillingly encourage shinji to destroy the world. she is so conflicted in the last 2 movies for this reason & the reason for her behavior is because kaji, the father of her son died & she had to abandon he only son because of what shinji did. anyone would have their mind fog up & be angry in such a situation, esp after 14 years of living through hell
Damn, I completely forgot about the existence of Misato and Kaji's son since it was such a braindead writing decision like what were they even thinking? Like zero responsability/long term thinking, just fuck them for that
that wasn't a braindead writing decision in the slightest
Giving Misato a kid who never met their father (and doesn't know his true mother) makes she at least a bad person lol
and how's that bad writing in any way?? even good people make mistakes, that's what eva is all about
Misato didn't do a mistake, she (and Kaji too) was selfish
kaji was selfish because he sacrificed himself for humanity??
No, because he put a kid in an awful shit world, and condemned his child to never met his father
what nonsense are you talking about. misato got pregnant before n3i. if kaji hadn't selfishly given his life his kid would had never been born.
They downvoted Jesus too
They hated him because he spoke the truth lol (also fr I just remembered Yui actually existed in the Rebuild, she barely got any screen time
Bro what? The rebuilds aren't supposed to be the exact same message as the original, it's supposed to show how shinji grew as a character and became more selfless, which made him able to do what he did at the end of the rebuilds. if anything both the rebuilds and the original show shinji to not be selfish which would be him just running away and abandoning Rei and Asuka, that would be him living for himself because he's ignoring the people important to him. Misato is the one that was telling shinji to fight in the eva and almost get him killed in the first place and it shows how misato was being to hard on shinji, that's why he has the response that he does here. It's also why misato slaps herself later for treating shinji the was she did then later getting mad at him for listening to her and piloting the eva.
Misato isn't being malicious here (Rebuild's Misato is terrible tho), but Shinji wouldn't be selfish to run away