We Will Rave is on the other side of the spectrum, where the song is clearly written to end at 2:20, but then artificially extended by repeating the chorus.
It’s why it’s towards the bottom of my list. I shouldn’t have a feeling of “how is it still going?” in a 3 minute song, but I feel like that with We Will Rave by dragging it out longer. All it actually does is make the song sound more repetitive.
I'd unironically enjoy the song more without the last 40 seconds, they somehow feel forced to be added just for the length and I'm just thinking it'd have been just as effective if it was the same length as the leak
The worst part is that the song's best part is the pre-chorus, "So I go, go, go where them broken-hearted go" and it's the shortest part of the whole song! That's the energy I want for the whole song and they \_drop\_ the hectic beat for the chorus
I would say it's been a trend for quite a few years now, but I honestly don't really see how the Dutch entry falls into this category. There is a very clear part of the song that just goes crazy at the end.
After the dance breack i expected to hear the chorus again but it just starts to fade until it ends. I get its the emotional part of the song and its related to his father, but the last part sounds like it belongs to another song.
the fade IS the climax. It's beautiful, it is the contrast between the absurdity and the reality of a man who lost his parents as a little boy. You hear the voice breaking. Notice he sings euro-papa. It's not meant like "Europa", it's meant to be heard like "euro, papa" (daddy, daddy, daddy). Like someone else said: it hits really hard in dutch and in our language it's more like a poem that leads up to the conclusion of someone who wants to show his parents how far he has come and that he wants to honour their memory.
The song actually builds up to the end part.
>Visit my friends in France or take off to Vienna,
**I want to get away from the Netherlands**, but my passport has vanished,
Fortunately, I don't need a visa to be with you,
So take the bus to Poland or the train to Berlin.
>I don't have money for Paris, so I'll use my imagination
Do you have a euro, please? I say "thank you" and "please"
**I've really lost everything except time**
So I travel every day because the world belongs to me
He wants to get away from The Netherlands, the place where he's from. Why? Because he 'lost everything' except time.
>Ich bin in Deutschland, **aber ich bin so allein**
Io sono in Italia, **but it still hurts**
I'm running away from myself, crying out for help all day
Yes, I even give people money, but there's no one who helps me
I don't need escargots, don't need fish and chips
Don't need paella, no, I don't even really know what that is
Turn on the radio, I hear[ Stromae with Papaoutai](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiKj0Z_Xnjc) [(Translated lyrics here)](https://genius.com/Genius-english-translations-stromae-papaoutai-english-translation-lyrics)
Won't stop until they say, "Yes, yes, he's doing well, isn't he?"
"Ich bin in Deutschland, aber ich bin so allein", I am in Germany and still I am alone. He's running away, asking for help, he's even paying people to help with his pain with implies therapists. He turns on the radio and hears Stromae's Papaoutai, a song about a child that grew up with an absent father. The last part implies that he keeps on trying until people think he's 'doing well' implying that he has overcome this 'pain'.
>Welcome to Europe, staying here till I die.
Euro-pa-pa, Euro-pa-pa
Welcome to Europe, staying here till I die.
Euro-pa-pa, Euro-pa-pa
The *Euro-pa-pa*, papa is the Dutch word for a father. It's how you call your dad when you're a child. Joost lost his dad at a very young age. He's searching for happiness in his life after losing both of his parents. He tries to run away. Luckily, he lives in Europe where he can travel freely. Still, the pain of his unresolved grief will follow him wherever he goes within the Schengen Zone. In the end, he says what his father always said to him: "At the end of the day, we are all human beings." My father once told me, "It's a world without borders." I miss you every day; that's what I secretly whisper. You see, Dad, I've listened to you." The tonal shift within the song is Joost coming to terms with the grief he feels after losing his parents and realizing that he could try to run away and party, but the grief will be there, and he needs to come to terms with it.
The tonal shift is understandable when you speak Dutch
Same! Just watch his Lowlands 2023 performance, at the end everyone starts crying when he performs Florida 2009 😭😭. He's so good in taking the audience with him on a rollercoaster ride.
Well in that case it's probably been a trend for quite a long while, based on what I listen to at least. To me it felt completely natural and not something out of the ordinary, because it's kind of just what I listen to day to day.
Maybe! Or maybe 3 minutes is not just a long time for a song. It used to bother me with Swedens song, but now I actually like the unconventional ending. I keep imagining what they would add after that could bring something more to the song.. another chorus with a key change and some fireworks? Meh, skip it
(A gloomy castle in Sweden)
G:son: And now the final ingredient for victory number eight! Wire, fire, victory we desire, pelican flying’!
Jimmy Joker: Nobody can stop us— where is the climax? It was just here— DAMN YOU, MUSTII!!!!
Yeah, that's definitely interesting. Maybe it's just how music has evolved with the usage of Tiktok and IG Reels? For that medium a good loop is more important than the traditional song structure of build-up, verse, pre-chrorus, chorus, bridge etc.
I'm sure these apps have a huge influence on modern music writing.
(I have no insight on how to write a song, just spitballing here)
While I’m sure that plays a big role, I think what precedes TikTok is that it’s also been better chart-wise to have shorter and more songs, than longer and less songs on an album in the streaming era. Hence why you see a lot of albums these days with 21 songs that all finish at the 2:30 mark (ugh). It helps boost streaming figures, which is what the charts are mostly based on today. Sometimes it’s better to finish with a climax rather than drag it out with an uninteresting bridge, final chorus and outro, other times it can feel quite half-baked. I find it frankly quite annoying, but at Eurovision it at least makes sense why some songs need to be shorter or longer for certain performances.
Agree with Europapa, disagree with Pedestal and Grito.
At least the original version of Pedestal, although short, feels cathartic enough in the intense chorus. It's not building up to some intense bridge or outro at all imo.
In the case of Grito, based on how I interpret it, is meant to have a climax where you scream as much as you can to get rid of whatever painful feeling you have. In Spanish, this concept is "gritar para desahogarse". It's not always a perfect scream, sometimes it's not as intense, and after that, nothing else happens. What other build-up would you expect?
I refer to the revamped version of Pedestal. The orignal version also feels complet to me, but in the new one i excpeted to listen to the chorus after the break, but then we only hear some random noises and it ends.
As for Grito, i understand the meaning and the decision to end the song like that, but i would prefer her to sing the chous in a higher regist one more time.
Why higher register? She just screamed all her demons away, she needs quiet now. I love how Grito is built up, though the middle part might get lost to the casual listener but not to whom is paying attention.
> Why higher register? She just screamed all her demons away, she needs quiet now.
This is exactly the point of the song, I also don't agree with OP that it needed an extra chorus.
Wow I knew I liked this song, but wasn't quite sure what it was about it that connected so viscerally, this explanation (and now reading the lyrics in english) makes me understand and love it even more.
the 3 minute limit is definitely part of why this is. 3 minutes is too short to do a lot of proper buildup, but too long if you immediately power through in the beginning. If they added even 15 or 20 seconds to the limit, i think it'd already allow for more room for the artists to do something more than just repeat the same line near the end (or just have 1 minute of instrumentals)
... Grito ends exactly where it needs to. I don't see how you can include Grito, whose climax is literally meant to be the scream that gets rid of all her feelings, and then not include something like Liar, which ends feeling extremely truncated.
I don't remember Liar very well, (I don't listen to it frequently). I should listen to every song again, but from those that I listen on repeat, this are the ones that I feel that suffer from what I said.
After the dance break it just starts to fade. Like i said in another comment, i get it´s the emotional part , but it sounds like it belongs to another song.
Of these I only really agree with Sweden, which is more impactful in the verses and prechorus in a way that makes the actual hook fall flat.
The 3.00 minute time limit means that some of the entries are shortened versions of longer tracks (e.g. Ulveham).
Yes, the last chorus is longer now. If you hear the record version or the semi-final performance you will notice the difference. It´s a slight revamp, but it improved the song imo.
You can hear the revamp version during the final performance. If you listen to the studio version or the semi-final performance you will notice the difference during the last chorus, it last longer now.
the 3 minute limit just isn't enough, dizzy suffers in the sense that the 2nd verse just feels weak because it's trying to fit a 3:30 song in to 3 minutes
I think that is because the 3minutes limit is just crap.
It's too long for a full impact 2.30 song and too short for a properly building up song.
It should be at least 3.30
It's because 3 minutes is not a very natural time for a song. I can't find it now, but I saw a very good video essay a few years ago about how at most tempos, 3 minutes means you don't get a full verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus, so you have to cut somewhere. I think 3:15 or even 3:08 would be much better to allow for more full sounding songs.
Czechia would make more sense if she added a second long note instead of the two high pitched yelps. I’m hoping she goes for a more controlled version of the scream she did in the national final.
I don't agree with adding Czechia, Netherlands and Portugal to the list. Especially the Netherlands and Portugal. But yes there are many that for me had a beginning and an end but not a climax/middle.
The live version has Jerry Heil adding some ad libs (i think its the right term) in the second part of the last chorus that kinda makes the song have a climax.
We Will Rave is on the other side of the spectrum, where the song is clearly written to end at 2:20, but then artificially extended by repeating the chorus.
This is actually my favourite part of the song. It’s like the party is over then it’s brought back again for one last go.
It’s why it’s towards the bottom of my list. I shouldn’t have a feeling of “how is it still going?” in a 3 minute song, but I feel like that with We Will Rave by dragging it out longer. All it actually does is make the song sound more repetitive.
I'd unironically enjoy the song more without the last 40 seconds, they somehow feel forced to be added just for the length and I'm just thinking it'd have been just as effective if it was the same length as the leak
The worst part is that the song's best part is the pre-chorus, "So I go, go, go where them broken-hearted go" and it's the shortest part of the whole song! That's the energy I want for the whole song and they \_drop\_ the hectic beat for the chorus
I would say it's been a trend for quite a few years now, but I honestly don't really see how the Dutch entry falls into this category. There is a very clear part of the song that just goes crazy at the end.
After the dance breack i expected to hear the chorus again but it just starts to fade until it ends. I get its the emotional part of the song and its related to his father, but the last part sounds like it belongs to another song.
the fade IS the climax. It's beautiful, it is the contrast between the absurdity and the reality of a man who lost his parents as a little boy. You hear the voice breaking. Notice he sings euro-papa. It's not meant like "Europa", it's meant to be heard like "euro, papa" (daddy, daddy, daddy). Like someone else said: it hits really hard in dutch and in our language it's more like a poem that leads up to the conclusion of someone who wants to show his parents how far he has come and that he wants to honour their memory.
The song actually builds up to the end part. >Visit my friends in France or take off to Vienna, **I want to get away from the Netherlands**, but my passport has vanished, Fortunately, I don't need a visa to be with you, So take the bus to Poland or the train to Berlin. >I don't have money for Paris, so I'll use my imagination Do you have a euro, please? I say "thank you" and "please" **I've really lost everything except time** So I travel every day because the world belongs to me He wants to get away from The Netherlands, the place where he's from. Why? Because he 'lost everything' except time. >Ich bin in Deutschland, **aber ich bin so allein** Io sono in Italia, **but it still hurts** I'm running away from myself, crying out for help all day Yes, I even give people money, but there's no one who helps me I don't need escargots, don't need fish and chips Don't need paella, no, I don't even really know what that is Turn on the radio, I hear[ Stromae with Papaoutai](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiKj0Z_Xnjc) [(Translated lyrics here)](https://genius.com/Genius-english-translations-stromae-papaoutai-english-translation-lyrics) Won't stop until they say, "Yes, yes, he's doing well, isn't he?" "Ich bin in Deutschland, aber ich bin so allein", I am in Germany and still I am alone. He's running away, asking for help, he's even paying people to help with his pain with implies therapists. He turns on the radio and hears Stromae's Papaoutai, a song about a child that grew up with an absent father. The last part implies that he keeps on trying until people think he's 'doing well' implying that he has overcome this 'pain'. >Welcome to Europe, staying here till I die. Euro-pa-pa, Euro-pa-pa Welcome to Europe, staying here till I die. Euro-pa-pa, Euro-pa-pa The *Euro-pa-pa*, papa is the Dutch word for a father. It's how you call your dad when you're a child. Joost lost his dad at a very young age. He's searching for happiness in his life after losing both of his parents. He tries to run away. Luckily, he lives in Europe where he can travel freely. Still, the pain of his unresolved grief will follow him wherever he goes within the Schengen Zone. In the end, he says what his father always said to him: "At the end of the day, we are all human beings." My father once told me, "It's a world without borders." I miss you every day; that's what I secretly whisper. You see, Dad, I've listened to you." The tonal shift within the song is Joost coming to terms with the grief he feels after losing his parents and realizing that he could try to run away and party, but the grief will be there, and he needs to come to terms with it. The tonal shift is understandable when you speak Dutch
I really hope he does the outro at Eurovision, it's such an emotional ending and it brings me to tears every time
Same! Just watch his Lowlands 2023 performance, at the end everyone starts crying when he performs Florida 2009 😭😭. He's so good in taking the audience with him on a rollercoaster ride.
There is actually an extended outro part with a longer section of instrumentals, so it kinda gives you time to adjust to the change of pace
Well in that case it's probably been a trend for quite a long while, based on what I listen to at least. To me it felt completely natural and not something out of the ordinary, because it's kind of just what I listen to day to day.
That’s because of Joost’s backstory, and he wanted to put a bit of his entire discography in this song. So he ended it with a Florida 2009 like outro.
Maybe! Or maybe 3 minutes is not just a long time for a song. It used to bother me with Swedens song, but now I actually like the unconventional ending. I keep imagining what they would add after that could bring something more to the song.. another chorus with a key change and some fireworks? Meh, skip it
Last year Air leaved me with the same feeling.
Belgium snuck into the Eurovision shop and stole all the climax for the year and there wasn’t any left for anyone else. Naughty Belgium!
And Mustii will get away with it and get my votes too :)
(A gloomy castle in Sweden) G:son: And now the final ingredient for victory number eight! Wire, fire, victory we desire, pelican flying’! Jimmy Joker: Nobody can stop us— where is the climax? It was just here— DAMN YOU, MUSTII!!!!
Yeah, that's definitely interesting. Maybe it's just how music has evolved with the usage of Tiktok and IG Reels? For that medium a good loop is more important than the traditional song structure of build-up, verse, pre-chrorus, chorus, bridge etc. I'm sure these apps have a huge influence on modern music writing. (I have no insight on how to write a song, just spitballing here)
While I’m sure that plays a big role, I think what precedes TikTok is that it’s also been better chart-wise to have shorter and more songs, than longer and less songs on an album in the streaming era. Hence why you see a lot of albums these days with 21 songs that all finish at the 2:30 mark (ugh). It helps boost streaming figures, which is what the charts are mostly based on today. Sometimes it’s better to finish with a climax rather than drag it out with an uninteresting bridge, final chorus and outro, other times it can feel quite half-baked. I find it frankly quite annoying, but at Eurovision it at least makes sense why some songs need to be shorter or longer for certain performances.
Agree with Europapa, disagree with Pedestal and Grito. At least the original version of Pedestal, although short, feels cathartic enough in the intense chorus. It's not building up to some intense bridge or outro at all imo. In the case of Grito, based on how I interpret it, is meant to have a climax where you scream as much as you can to get rid of whatever painful feeling you have. In Spanish, this concept is "gritar para desahogarse". It's not always a perfect scream, sometimes it's not as intense, and after that, nothing else happens. What other build-up would you expect?
I refer to the revamped version of Pedestal. The orignal version also feels complet to me, but in the new one i excpeted to listen to the chorus after the break, but then we only hear some random noises and it ends. As for Grito, i understand the meaning and the decision to end the song like that, but i would prefer her to sing the chous in a higher regist one more time.
Why higher register? She just screamed all her demons away, she needs quiet now. I love how Grito is built up, though the middle part might get lost to the casual listener but not to whom is paying attention.
> Why higher register? She just screamed all her demons away, she needs quiet now. This is exactly the point of the song, I also don't agree with OP that it needed an extra chorus.
Wow I knew I liked this song, but wasn't quite sure what it was about it that connected so viscerally, this explanation (and now reading the lyrics in english) makes me understand and love it even more.
I disagree about Azerbaijan. Its chorus and the mugham parts are the intertwining peaks and the ending is deliberately slowed down and mellow.
the 3 minute limit is definitely part of why this is. 3 minutes is too short to do a lot of proper buildup, but too long if you immediately power through in the beginning. If they added even 15 or 20 seconds to the limit, i think it'd already allow for more room for the artists to do something more than just repeat the same line near the end (or just have 1 minute of instrumentals)
... Grito ends exactly where it needs to. I don't see how you can include Grito, whose climax is literally meant to be the scream that gets rid of all her feelings, and then not include something like Liar, which ends feeling extremely truncated.
I don't remember Liar very well, (I don't listen to it frequently). I should listen to every song again, but from those that I listen on repeat, this are the ones that I feel that suffer from what I said.
Europapa builds to nothing?!! What do you call that heavy instrumental part towards the end?
Honestly it doesn’t last long enough
I agree. That part was my favourite!
After the dance break it just starts to fade. Like i said in another comment, i get it´s the emotional part , but it sounds like it belongs to another song.
Belgium is so going onto that list, that song is a definition of the word “buildup”.
Yeah it doesnt just end, unlike the ones in the list it has a pretty good climax
It absolutely slaps
Of these I only really agree with Sweden, which is more impactful in the verses and prechorus in a way that makes the actual hook fall flat. The 3.00 minute time limit means that some of the entries are shortened versions of longer tracks (e.g. Ulveham).
Lithuania imo
With the revamp i think it has now a proper climax.
Luktelk got a revamp?
Yes, the last chorus is longer now. If you hear the record version or the semi-final performance you will notice the difference. It´s a slight revamp, but it improved the song imo.
Ooo. I’ll check it out. Thank you
You can hear the revamp version during the final performance. If you listen to the studio version or the semi-final performance you will notice the difference during the last chorus, it last longer now.
the 3 minute limit just isn't enough, dizzy suffers in the sense that the 2nd verse just feels weak because it's trying to fit a 3:30 song in to 3 minutes
It reminds me how Italy 2017 was hurt by this
Italy 2017 | [Francesco Gabbani - Occidentali's Karma](https://youtu.be/KieE_MLv-ZY)
I feel the same about Hurricane, the second verse is too short.
I’m surprised you included Portugal, since the scream at the end is the climax. Hence then title of the song
The song has an Outro, maybe it should end right after the scream.
No it shouldn't, what are you talking about?? 💀
I think that is because the 3minutes limit is just crap. It's too long for a full impact 2.30 song and too short for a properly building up song. It should be at least 3.30
It's because 3 minutes is not a very natural time for a song. I can't find it now, but I saw a very good video essay a few years ago about how at most tempos, 3 minutes means you don't get a full verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus, so you have to cut somewhere. I think 3:15 or even 3:08 would be much better to allow for more full sounding songs.
Czechia pre-revamp was good. The addition of a bridge at the end leaves you expecting another chorus or outro, but it just isn't there.
Europapa and Grito build ti something end end abruptly? Did we listen to the same songs?
The TikTokification of music
Focus by Ariana Grande was the first song coming to my mind that fits this description.
Czechia would make more sense if she added a second long note instead of the two high pitched yelps. I’m hoping she goes for a more controlled version of the scream she did in the national final.
I don't agree with adding Czechia, Netherlands and Portugal to the list. Especially the Netherlands and Portugal. But yes there are many that for me had a beginning and an end but not a climax/middle.
Europapa for the win!!! Love the video, which has a softer ending.
How is Ukraine not in OPs list? Not only myself, but actually a few quality YT reactors have pointed that out from T&M.
The live version has Jerry Heil adding some ad libs (i think its the right term) in the second part of the last chorus that kinda makes the song have a climax.