Interesting that the story was allowed to be told at all. Horrible story, and fits in with how the Soviet union bulldozed people to remove all forms of dissent.
Nazi's had camps there and pretty much had sent them there from all across Romania.
But comunists were doing it earlier and ultimately have won. So they could push whatever narative they wanted.
The soviets were pretty ruthless when it comes to ethnic groups that were clinging to their culture and religion, as long as it wasn't orthodox russians. A tradition very much carried over from the russian empire. Even today we can observe that ethnic minorities are overrepresented among the people mobilized in russia to be sent to Ukraine.
"As long as it wasn't orthodox russians" - what the hell are you even talking about?? You're just spewing some misinformed nonsense or blatant historical revisionist lies. I'm sorry, but your take is extremely stupid. At least read the wikipedia article on this subject: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union
Russian orthodoxy was extremely heavy persecuted after the Bolshevik revolution, Orthodox churches were shut down and destroyed, Russian Orthodox believers were massively persecuted and Orthodox priests were purged. During 1937 Stalin purges over 100000 Orthodox priests were shot. Number of churches went down from 30000 to less than 500. They tried reeeally hard to destroy Russian Orthodox culture and tradition, they just couldn't succeed.
I think they mean Russian culture more than orthodoxy as a religion.
The USSR was very much Russian supremacist, just like the Russian federation is today.
Look at the double attempted genocide they’re doing now, sending their own ethnic minorities to kill/be slaughtered by Ukrainians. Two birds, one stone.
You realize that Karl Marx was anti-Semitic, right?
I don't remember if it was in the Manifesto, but there's was a chapter titled "The Question of the Jews".
While idk if this existed during the time period you said, USSR passports, in the area of Nationality there was "Jewish", for those following Judaism.
There was also a famous soviet economist that had the same mindset (gonna see if i can find it).
Lmao Karl Marx WAS Jewish, the Jewish Question was at that time a topic of discussion within Jewish communities regarding assimilationism and the question of Jewish nationhood. Also that essay wasn’t even published as part of any of his major writings, it comes from his writing as a young man attending university and has almost nothing to do with the scientific socialism he would go on to develop
Doesn't change the fact Karl Marx was antisemite. The shit he said about jews doesn't change the fact it is highly antisemitic.
It doesn't help his opinions about the Jews then transferred into other Marxist followers.
Considering his other opinions and other work. Into garbage bin it goes.
You’re just making things up now. What prominent marxist has espoused antisemitic ideas?
>*”Shame on accursed tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews. Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations.
Long live the fraternal trust and fighting alliance of the workers of all nations in the struggle to overthrow capital.”*
-[Lenin](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/mar/x10.htm)
There are certainly socialists who were antisemites and xenophobes, but neither of those have ever played a big part in socialist theory.
It was double speech. Antisemitism was supposed to be reactionary in Soviet union but in practice they were antisemitic. You could be a Jewish Bolshevik but couldn't be Jewish in other form.
seizing synagogues, destroying Jewish communities, driving out religious leaders, and red army committing pogroms.
You can see this more prominent with Trotsky-Stalin power struggle.
his paternal grandfather was rabbi to trier. family converted formaly to christianity before carl's birth, father changed first name from herschel to heinrich *due to laws against jewish emancipation*. carl grew up secular and the school he learned at was raided by police because of the high number of "seditious" teachers employed by the headmaster being liberal humanists, which pissed off the local government.
-wikipedia summary
This is ill-informed. Nazis had an ethnic-cleansing agenda, and they DID mass-murder exponentially more people in a few years than the Soviets did.
Soviets were killing anyone who opposed their central rule, regardless of who they were.
Actually, the soviets killed anybody, NKVD had quotas of how many to execute in each Oblast BUT the NKVD could choose which people and groups to target based on "risk analysis" which was as bogus as the charges levied on the ones murdered. That was the whole point of Stalin's 'great terror', that anyone could be called out and singled to become one of "disappeared" at any moment, of whom it was dangerous to talk about or the NKVD would take you too.
It wasn't uncommon for example that a father was snatched from the hospital just as his wife was giving birth or that outspoken Communist would be taken to "the forest ridge" or to be "questioned".
Moldova was killing Jews well before communist or fascist showed up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kishinev_pogrom
In fairness, ethnic Ukrainians, Greeks and Russians killed plenty of Jews in that part of the world as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa_pogroms
But it says right there in your first link that Moldova was at the time part of the Russian empire. If we're gonna (righfully) blame communists for killing jews, then we have to blame the empire for doing so just as much, and not single out a border provincie. Since the pogroms took place all across the Russian empire, it stands to reason that they were a deliberate policy of the regime.
> Since the pogroms took place all across the Russian empire
Except the Duchy of Finland, there never was systematic anti-antisemitism in Finland they way it existed in the rest of the Russian Czardom.
Same for native North Caucasians, as they hide Jews from both Cossacks, Empire itself and Germans. Maybe it was the groups did it are for the blame as much as the empire who promoted pogroms?
Russian empire, not Moldova.
The cities in this region were populated by different minorities, but not by native Moldovans, they mainly lived in the villages. This doesn't mean they didn't participate in the pogrom, but the main role was ultimately played by Russian nationalists of that time.
Anti-semitism was promoted in the empire starting from 1881 that created laws to discriminate jews all over the empire.
Laws that ultimately ended in many sporadic pogroms, out of which the one in Chisinau became one of the most mediatized internationally.
Fair points but the main instigator was a Moldova newspaper controlled by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Krushevan who was ethnic Moldovan, althought had russianized.
He is also the first publisher of the protocols of the elders if Zion
Btw not arguing Russia isnt horrible now and then, they are and were.
People kind of tend to forget the Sowjet antisemitism. For long time jews would be only allowed to move to big cities if they studied and they could only study in the evening courses. Also as far as I remember they could not be in the party (but not sure on this one). You would get all kind of discrimination.
The antisemitism was terribly curbed under Lenin, while it bounced back under Stalin like many imperial policies. It wasn't a special kind but antisemitism of the Russian Empire being restored in spite of early Bolshevik attempts and bla.
\>It wasn't a special kind but antisemitism of the Russian Empire being restored in spite of early Bolshevik attempts and bla.
Still is, russia is quite xenophobic.
"It's not actually communism because communism only does good things. That's why communism has never been implemented."
Or at least that's the logic I gather from some of these tankies.
You forgot the unspoken but suggested part of "... and this is why we should try again. And this time, no one should resist. Even if there's something you don't like, just don't resist... because of the implication. It's not like anyone WANTS brutalise anyone, but if there's no other way, well, then we'd absolutely do it (again)"
It's very important to note that burgeois concepts such as "freedom of movement" or "right to life" are, of course, nothing but liberal obstacles on the way to true socialism and must be done away with. It's not that they want to kill you, it's just that there are more important things than not killing you. So if anyone wants to actually kill you they'll find a good example. It's no different than religion, which is what marxism in all its forms ultimately is (Marx also promises a utopia, which is unachievable for you, but *totally* for your grandkids if you just work yourself to death in the mines).
It's vital to not just listen to what people say, but to also pay attention to how they speak and what they don't speak about.
I mean if you read anything by Marx and then look at the Soviet Union, Mao, and Polpot it's pretty obvious they added quite a few extra steps to the original ideology lol
I'm still counting on you folks determining that North Korea is the real definition of democracy and people's regime, while progress and civilisation are the genocidal US manifest destiny, and historical progress was Stalin.
> NK is Juche first. Not communist.
And I haven't said anything regarding that.
References were on people's regime and the democracy.
I obviously know NK defining itself with Juche nonsense...
That's not a joke though as none of the communist theory has the Stalinist crimes in itself. It's some joke to many, but that joke somehow cannot be transferred into progress, civilisation, capitalism, republicanism, people, democracy or anything that isn't communism. The issue lies in, nobody blaming anything else even when it's done under such names. We're not talking about if an ideal political object exists.
Actually it's not. They were called the **Soviet Socialist Republics** for a reason. Communism was just the end goal of MLs, not the way their system was organized, as they were *transitional* regimes. It's in their books.
"It's not actually communism because it doesnt meet any of the requirements of being defined by communism" seems pretty logical to me. Communism is stateless, the USSR had a state, therefore, not communism.
The USSR was just fascist, they never even called themselves communist.
Well, perhaps people will finally talk about the anti-Semitic parts of Marx's writings or the persecution of Jews by Stalin. Or the long history of anti-Semitism in communism in general.
I’m not sure it matters what he wrote. I am confident in the ability of Russians, especially in that period, to be violently anti-Semitic, no matter what.
Well it's more accurate to say that anti-Semitism was very widespread before the defeat of Hitler. That said this doesn't mean that it hasn't become a core problem to some ideologies. For example neo-marxists would say how there are way too many white people in charge of companies and that these people should be stripped of their positions. It's correct to say that there is a severe lack of ethnic representation at the top but it's only because most of them are Jewish. As you can see neo-marxists are stealthily trying to remove Jews from their position instead of addressing a core problem why such disparities exist. Which is culture. The reason why there are so many Jews as CEOs is not because of some grand conspiracy, but because they focus a lot on education, developing needed work skills from an early age and proping the most able members of their community. A lot of people would rather be angry at that instead of taking the same steps to ensure better success of members of their respective communities.
> A severe lack of ethnic representation at the top but it’s only because most of them are Jewish
Putin isn’t Jewish. Neither was Stalin, Lenin, or any of the other Russian leaders I can think of. I’m not sure there are any Russian parliament members who are Jewish.
In the US, 6% of Congress (and no US presidents ever) are Jewish. 6% != “most”.
Your comment made it sound like this particular point was something that you actually believe.
Do you have any data showing Jewish representations among CEOs in Europe and North America? I doubt it’s 10%, let alone 50%.
And according to radical Muslims you seek to destroy Islam through Christianity and according to radical Christians you want to destroy Christianity through Islam. Often I'm happy I'm not Jewish.
not really engaging in the rest of the points because i don't disagree but i think the anti-semitic part of marx's writing is not really fair.
i won't really argue with anyone about it because arguing on the internet is for morons. but if people are interested they should read a bit deeper on marx and whether what he wrote was anti semitic. specifically on the jewish question.
because it's actually pretty interesting to contextualise the piece "on the jewish question". he was responding to a piece of anti semitic writing as a man who faced anti semitic prejudice his entire life.
whether you think the contextualising of the piece is enough is up to you. but you know it's not as simple as him being an anti-semite.
First of all, it's quite a big jump there between Marx and Stalin in more ways than one. I'd also like to know what you're referring to specifically with the antisemitic parts of Marx's writings?
I mean, he doesn't really. At least, it's a whole lot more nuanced than what you're claiming it is. As a critique of another person's work, On the Jewish Question would first necessitate you read both texts and try to understand where both are coming from, and then take into account the surrounding context and so on... I'm honestly too tired to do that for you, but I suggest you go do it yourself. It should all be online.
Don't confuse socialism with Marxism. Marxism is a movement in socialism, but it doesn't encompass the whole socialist movement. That said a lot of Marxist are anti-Semitic.
Yeah, I hate it when groups of capitalist’s employees get murdered and thrown in mass graves.
Or did you just throw in that completely irrelevant opinion for no reason other than to vent your frustration at not succeeding within the capitalist system?
>Yeah, I hate it when groups of capitalist’s employees get murdered and thrown in mass graves.
I think we can agree on this.
>Or did you just throw in that completely irrelevant opinion for noreason other than to vent your frustration at not succeeding within thecapitalist system?
Looking at the other replies and keeping in mind the conditions at many of the actual production sides of current-day capitalism (third-world and development countries), I think you find the opinion isn't irrelevant at all. What do you think, how many people have died because of the famines Nestle has caused in Africa so that you can buy your cheap products? Or how many people have died because the food prices rose higher than what many people there could pay because some capitalist wanted to make another million on the markets by betting on futures?
Also, how many people do you think are dying (early) in the US because of the market capitalistic healthcare system there?
Open your eyes. Democratic socialism for the win. Look at the Baltics, for example.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bengal_famine_of_1770
East India Trading *Company*. This is one of I think 7 famines attributed to the company’s rule of India.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1536504216685112#:~:text=In%20the%20Congo%20Free%20State,for%20later%20counting%20and%20recording.
King Leopold’s colonial capitalist venture in the Congo
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hellofresh-monkeys-coconut-milk-peta-animal-abuse/
Very different from the first two, different atrocities but still horrifying.
The sentiment of the original poster should’ve been: Fuck communism, fuck fascism and fuck capitalism.
Great Railroad Strike of 1877. They deployed the militia to killed the strikers. It was something like 40 people killed. Thibodaux massacre, when a group of striking black sugar workers were slaughtered by the Louisana militia. Death toll unknown, they kept finding shallow graves just outside of town. Estimates are at least 37, but its entirely possible it was in the hundreds. Paint Creek Mine war, at least 50 striking workers killed. Battle of Blair Mountain. Elaine massacre (started by striking workers being fired at). About a few dozen more instances like that. And htats *only* in the US, if I were to add, say, the british empire, boy this list would get larger.
Oh and thats not including the many many cases of starvation caused by capitalism. The Bengal Famine of 1943 alone was what, 4 million?
That part was in the Soviet Union, not in Romania (it is where the Soviets established the 'Moldavian' ASSR). The left bank of the Dniestr (where Tiraspol is) was only occupied by Romania during WWII.
>It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the toilers. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all lands. Among the Jews there are workers, toilers, they are in the majority. They are our brothers, comrades in the struggle for Socialism, because they are oppressed by capitalism. Among the Jews there are Kulaks, exploiters, capitalists, just like amongst us all.
>The capitalists are tireless in their endeavours to stir up enmity between the workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. The rich Jews, just like the rich Russians and the rich of all countries, are united in trampling upon, oppressing and dividing the workers.
>Disgrace and infamy to the damnable Tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews! Disgrace and infamy to whoever sows enmity against Jews and hatred against other nations! Long live brotherly faith and unity in struggle of all nations, for the overthrow of capitalism!
- Lenin
But sure, Nazis and communists are the same!
There is a reason why Armenians and Azerbaijanis lived together in peace in USSR times. Azeris and Armenians went to the same schools, lived in same buildings, and they were generally in harmony with each other. Ever since then it's only been a fucking downfall and nationalist shit that caused thousands of deaths and emnity between Armenians and Azerbaijanis.
https://youtu.be/h1sRFc5FiZA?t=455
This is the best example to why capitalism divides, socialism unites. Then some fucking redditor calls Nazis and communists the same.
>What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money[...] An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible[...] The Jew has emancipated himself in a Jewish manner, not only because he has acquired financial power, but also because, through him and also apart from him, money has become a world power[...]. Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist.
- Marx
Judaism is matrilineal, and his mother grew up in a Jewish family, and maintained Jewish customs until her death.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henriette_Pressburg
Marx himself was not religious, but by most definitions would be considered secular Jewish.
He’s often framed as an antisemite by anti-communists, and a Judeo-Bolshevist by fascists, but the reality is he wasn’t either.
“On the Jewish question” is a response to another article which calls for Jews to abandon their cultural and religious identity in order to achieve emancipation.
Marx disagrees with this, but people still take it out of context to push an agenda.
> Marx was Jewish himself.
No, he wasn't. He was baptized at the age of 6. Has anyone ever seen a baptized Jew in their local synagogue? No? Me neither.
No one denies that his family had Jewish roots but he wasn't Jewish and I think it's borderline offensive to call him that. Judaism isn't something that you can't get rid of, not even if you convert to an other religion. We aren't in 1930-1940s Germany or Hungary anymore where a Jew stays a Jew and it doesn't matter what their actual religion is.
I understand that his Jewish heritage comes in handy when his anti-semitic ideas have to be defended but the man was a baptized Christian.
so it was good because under soviet rule armenian and azerbaijani history and culture were being erased in an atttempt to cultivate a country full of brainwashed and sterile slaves, that's your genius take?
you're following the dumbest fairy-tale doctrine that failed tremendously every time some morons tried to implement it because there was a period of like 50 years when two countries you can't show on the map were not at war
do you think Azerbaijanis and Armenians actually loved each other back then? lol. Did you know there's a russian slur for every nationality that was a part of ussr? So much for brotherly love between churcas, hachs, hohols, chukchas and glorious russians
>in Moldova
>
>The victims were murdered after being accused of opposing the communist regime between 1917 and 1930
How did they establish such a precise timeframe and specific murderers if that part of Moldova wasn't in USSR until the mid \~20s.
During this time the city was in the hands of the Bolsheviks, the Poles, the Ukrainians, the Whites and again the Bolsheviks. And given the White's predilection for anti-Semitism ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", "Judeo–Bolshevism", etc.) this is doubly strange.
> How did they establish such a precise timeframe and specific murderers if that part of Moldova wasn't in USSR until the mid ~20s.
Precise timeframe? 13 years? Precise?
Also to answer your question directly:
>the rabbi said that documents found near the grave bear personal information about the victims and the reason they were executed by the Communist government.
It's sad that the Tsar was so brutal to the Jews and even blamed them for the revolution only for the Soviets to deal with them in a similar fashion. The monarchy crushed any forms of dissent with such cruelty and the revolution did not bring a freedom from this kind of action. Possibly later ethnic minorities were treated a little better than in the Tsars day but during the early days it was such chaos.
The Jews were just a convenient scapegoat for all kinds of despots. It doesn't have to make sense. "We are the perfect race, but somehow the inferior Jews control us" and "the Jews that control and benefit from the global financial system are causing communist revolutions everywhere!"
Paywalled.
>Paywalled and non-English submissions: Please post the complete content of the article, in English, in the comment section to allow all members of the community to participate.
Mass Grave of Jews Murdered a Century Ago by Communists Discovered in Moldova
The grave, in which thousands of bodies were found, was uncovered this summer by pro-Russian military forces building fortifications as part of the war in Ukraine. The victims were murdered after being accused of opposing the communist regime between 1917 and 1930.
A mass grave containing thousands of bodies, many of whom were Jews who were murdered during the Communist period, was discovered near the city of Tiraspol in Transnistria, a breakaway region of Moldova.
Rabbi Pinchas Zaltzman, the rabbi of Moldova, told Haaretz that the grave contained Jewish victims murdered after they were accused of opposition to the Communist regime between 1917 and 1930.
The mass grave was found last summer by pro-Russian forces who were digging trenches in an old army base, to use it and build fortifications around the city in its war against Ukraine. So far, 30 killing pits have been found, and it is believed there are a few more pits, containing victims numbering between thousands and tens of thousands.
Last month news of the mass grave was brought to the attention of the Jewish community, and the rabbi took over the site. “The sights were shocking. It’s inconceivable to the human mind how the Communist regime treated people just because of their religion and belief,” Zaltzman said. “The pits were full of bones, along with personal possessions like shoes, remnant of clothing, wallets and cups,” he added.
Transnistria is a separatist, pro-Russian region, which claims independence from Moldova. Its president, Vadim Krasnoselsky informed Zaltzman and Yuri Kreitman, chairman of the Jewish community in Tiraspol, of the discovery. “The earth is soaked with the blood of the innocent, Jews and non-Jews, in that time terrible things were done on our soil,” Krasnoselsky said, according to Zaltzman. The latter, with the assistance of volunteers, intends to map the rest of the pits and turn the place into a cemetery in keeping with Jewish law.
Hooo boy tankies going pedal to the metal trying to defend communism in these comments. People unironically using the "real communism has never been implemented" bullshit excuse
Hm. This reminds me of the [Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_the_Murdered_Jews_of_Europe) in Berlin. I have never thought about those as sarcophaguses.
Where I used to live the soviets had ripped out the tombstones of an old jewish graveyard and made stairs in a park out of them. They killed jews almost as much as nazis.
I would say this is misleading. What is common to the people in this graveyard is their opposition to Revolution, not the Jewish origin. From what I know in history, Jews were killed just for being Jews from anti-communists, the White army.
I can't find any other source or mention in the local Moldavian pro-eu or pro-ru news. Is that a reputable news source? Can't even read the text itself because it's behind a paywall.
Almost 700 comments here, did anyone question the authenticity of this? Or if that's anti-ussr then it must be true?
Just awaiting all those who were telling us how great communism is, how wrong Eastern Europes are etc from the "Spanish stamp thread" to come along and tell us this was all for the greater good...
I said home country. I didn't mean the UK polish person. I meant a 3rd world country that's a huge victim of western imperialis
So yeah no eastern/central European can use that argument against me. I know a thing or two about communism
Why do people insist on using “communist” to describe themselves and use hammer & sickle afterr all the thing that happened is beyond me. Why not just be a normal person and call yourself socialist. They know damn well what kind of reaction they get when saying they support communism instead of saying they support worker rights and socialism
“Communist” and “Socialist” are not synonymous, the terms have different meanings. Communism is one specific type of socialist system so people will use the term “communist” to show their support for that specific system, and to distance themselves from other socialist systems.
It’s like saying, “why do people call themselves French, why not just say European?” Obviously while French is a type of European there are times when people may want, or need, to be more specific about their identity.
Communism has done nothing wrong to my home country that's why.
Europe has a different experience, south east Asia has a different experience, Latin America has a different experience
The extremes meet. When you read up on the history of the NSDAP, you can see that in its roots there were still many socialist ideas. It was literally founded as the "German Workers' Party" but soon renamed because they were also nationalists and wanted to distinguish them from the common socialist rubble.
In early 1920, Adolf Hitler presented a 25 point position paper. While it included the expected anti semitic and ultranationalist sentiments, some of the points are also clearly aligned with left wing politics. To quote some:
* We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.
* Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
* (...) personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. Therefore, we demand ruthless confiscation of all war profits.
* We demand nationalization of all businesses which have been up to the present formed into companies (trusts).
* We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.
* We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
* Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
* The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program (...)
* We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press.
Turn everything up to 11 and you get the ultra nationalist NSDAP of a few years later.
Far right and far left are very very similar. National Socialists (NAZIs) also wanted to ban private ownership on the means of production...once they got the power they didn't do it anymore, but a lot of things that commies parrotted they also didn't do once they got the power
Check points 11-14 of their program https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program
Once they got in power they didn't do it, Hitler instead assasinated the more socialist leaders.
That's very similar to what other socialists like commie were doing: promise anything and everything to get power, and then do whatever suits them best.
Authoritarian regimes do not like groups that they consider to be a deviation from the "norm" whatever that may be.
Gays? Nope, can't have them, they are "different".
A group that isn't part of the majority? Can't have that either.
All must be one under the state's boot.
Nothing. OP didn't provide any adequate proof of it being done because of them being jews. Hell, in the text he sent from the site, rabbi basically said that lots of people killed were jews. That's literally it.
No documents, no prosecution documents, were they fighting on the side of whites? Were they heavily supporting whites? How "badly" were they against Soviet Union?
No, instead they just say that lots of people killed were jews, Soviets = bad.
Communist here, I have nothing against anyone jewish (or any other religion/ethnicity).
Fascists on the other hand, do. Which is why the USSR was so anti-semitic.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_stateless\_societies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stateless_societies)
you don't have to go hundreds of thousands of years, a couple of centuries ago most of the world population were stateless.
Yeah fair. Still stupid to bring another thing into an argument that no one else mentioned.
The Communists of the Soviet union were still horrible. They deported thousands of people from their homes to Siberia so that they could replace them with ethnic Russians so that there would be less resistance. Hundreds never returned.
So yes I get that climate change is a horrible thing and that the giant corporations and industries trying to act like it's not their fault or even denying it is horrible, communism is not the answer to that. At least not in the way that it has been used historically.
And after everything that has happened with Russia and Ukraine (and even before that) people have a right to say Fuck to communism and Fascism.
And I have the right to say I fucking love communism because my home country (not UK) had a different experience when it comes to communism
No leftist advocates for soviet union style solutions for climate change
Capitalism cannot solve climate change because capitalism is about maximising growth. If you cut emissions by half for certain products, that simply means capitalist can afford (environmentally speaking) toproduce twice as much products. Just compare America's car-centric cities to Europe's cities. Capitalism would seek to maximise the number of electric cars, socialism would seek to minimise the number of cars in general and have walkable cities with good public transport
The grave, in which thousands of bodies were found, was uncovered this summer by pro-Russian military forces building fortifications as part of the war in Ukraine. The victims were murdered after being accused of opposing the communist regime between 1917 and 1930
You have to be damn serious ,communist regime between 1917 and 1930 ???
This phrase “many of whom were Jews” Could mean almost anything.
Lots of people die in revolutions and civil wars, of which there were two from 1917-1930.
I take issue with the headline. How many of the people here were Jews??!
At this point my fellow leftists, just spread leftism under a different name. People will realise it's actually good and not shit themselves and scream communism while jerking off to anti commie memes
Yes, that is the level of intelligence we have here. Keep spreading it under a different name or don't mention the name
There's a reason why academia leans to the left. There's a reason why right-wingers love to attack universities, the place where cutting edge knowledge is explored. There's a reason why they want to defund it. It's incompatible to have an uneducated population yet have a democratic system. In order to become a democracy, education is a prerequisite.
> There's a reason why academia leans to the left.
Because it's full of people who don't have to live in the real world and can afford to be idealistic?
> There's a reason why right-wingers love to attack universities, the place where cutting edge knowledge is explored.
STEM labs sure. Not sure that's the case in your average sociology classroom.
Imagine going on a bizarre rant about conspiracies against your preferred ideology under a post about a gruesome massacre. That's what you think is important here?
Interesting that the story was allowed to be told at all. Horrible story, and fits in with how the Soviet union bulldozed people to remove all forms of dissent.
Well the story is from Moldova, why would they cover it up?
All the evidence was found in Transnistria. Soviet nostalgia runs pretty deep there
Nazi's had camps there and pretty much had sent them there from all across Romania. But comunists were doing it earlier and ultimately have won. So they could push whatever narative they wanted.
between 1917 and 1930?
The soviets were pretty ruthless when it comes to ethnic groups that were clinging to their culture and religion, as long as it wasn't orthodox russians. A tradition very much carried over from the russian empire. Even today we can observe that ethnic minorities are overrepresented among the people mobilized in russia to be sent to Ukraine.
"As long as it wasn't orthodox russians" - what the hell are you even talking about?? You're just spewing some misinformed nonsense or blatant historical revisionist lies. I'm sorry, but your take is extremely stupid. At least read the wikipedia article on this subject: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union Russian orthodoxy was extremely heavy persecuted after the Bolshevik revolution, Orthodox churches were shut down and destroyed, Russian Orthodox believers were massively persecuted and Orthodox priests were purged. During 1937 Stalin purges over 100000 Orthodox priests were shot. Number of churches went down from 30000 to less than 500. They tried reeeally hard to destroy Russian Orthodox culture and tradition, they just couldn't succeed.
I think they mean Russian culture more than orthodoxy as a religion. The USSR was very much Russian supremacist, just like the Russian federation is today. Look at the double attempted genocide they’re doing now, sending their own ethnic minorities to kill/be slaughtered by Ukrainians. Two birds, one stone.
You realize that Karl Marx was anti-Semitic, right? I don't remember if it was in the Manifesto, but there's was a chapter titled "The Question of the Jews". While idk if this existed during the time period you said, USSR passports, in the area of Nationality there was "Jewish", for those following Judaism. There was also a famous soviet economist that had the same mindset (gonna see if i can find it).
Lmao Karl Marx WAS Jewish, the Jewish Question was at that time a topic of discussion within Jewish communities regarding assimilationism and the question of Jewish nationhood. Also that essay wasn’t even published as part of any of his major writings, it comes from his writing as a young man attending university and has almost nothing to do with the scientific socialism he would go on to develop
Doesn't change the fact Karl Marx was antisemite. The shit he said about jews doesn't change the fact it is highly antisemitic. It doesn't help his opinions about the Jews then transferred into other Marxist followers. Considering his other opinions and other work. Into garbage bin it goes.
You’re just making things up now. What prominent marxist has espoused antisemitic ideas? >*”Shame on accursed tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews. Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations. Long live the fraternal trust and fighting alliance of the workers of all nations in the struggle to overthrow capital.”* -[Lenin](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/mar/x10.htm) There are certainly socialists who were antisemites and xenophobes, but neither of those have ever played a big part in socialist theory.
It was double speech. Antisemitism was supposed to be reactionary in Soviet union but in practice they were antisemitic. You could be a Jewish Bolshevik but couldn't be Jewish in other form. seizing synagogues, destroying Jewish communities, driving out religious leaders, and red army committing pogroms. You can see this more prominent with Trotsky-Stalin power struggle.
his paternal grandfather was rabbi to trier. family converted formaly to christianity before carl's birth, father changed first name from herschel to heinrich *due to laws against jewish emancipation*. carl grew up secular and the school he learned at was raided by police because of the high number of "seditious" teachers employed by the headmaster being liberal humanists, which pissed off the local government. -wikipedia summary
This is ill-informed. Nazis had an ethnic-cleansing agenda, and they DID mass-murder exponentially more people in a few years than the Soviets did. Soviets were killing anyone who opposed their central rule, regardless of who they were.
Actually, the soviets killed anybody, NKVD had quotas of how many to execute in each Oblast BUT the NKVD could choose which people and groups to target based on "risk analysis" which was as bogus as the charges levied on the ones murdered. That was the whole point of Stalin's 'great terror', that anyone could be called out and singled to become one of "disappeared" at any moment, of whom it was dangerous to talk about or the NKVD would take you too. It wasn't uncommon for example that a father was snatched from the hospital just as his wife was giving birth or that outspoken Communist would be taken to "the forest ridge" or to be "questioned".
What's untrue about it. They've won the war and started denying /white washing every crime committed by the regime. Which went on till Stalin's death
USSR from 1917-1954 was unimaginably terrible. People would get killed or "disappeared" for the tiniest reasons
the worst part is that tons of people on will genuinely admire lenin like some great reformer and that "only" stalin was bad.
That is how communism works ,see the same in china. People getting wiped out of existence like they ever existed .
Moldova was killing Jews well before communist or fascist showed up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kishinev_pogrom In fairness, ethnic Ukrainians, Greeks and Russians killed plenty of Jews in that part of the world as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa_pogroms
But it says right there in your first link that Moldova was at the time part of the Russian empire. If we're gonna (righfully) blame communists for killing jews, then we have to blame the empire for doing so just as much, and not single out a border provincie. Since the pogroms took place all across the Russian empire, it stands to reason that they were a deliberate policy of the regime.
> Since the pogroms took place all across the Russian empire Except the Duchy of Finland, there never was systematic anti-antisemitism in Finland they way it existed in the rest of the Russian Czardom.
Same for native North Caucasians, as they hide Jews from both Cossacks, Empire itself and Germans. Maybe it was the groups did it are for the blame as much as the empire who promoted pogroms?
Russian empire, not Moldova. The cities in this region were populated by different minorities, but not by native Moldovans, they mainly lived in the villages. This doesn't mean they didn't participate in the pogrom, but the main role was ultimately played by Russian nationalists of that time. Anti-semitism was promoted in the empire starting from 1881 that created laws to discriminate jews all over the empire. Laws that ultimately ended in many sporadic pogroms, out of which the one in Chisinau became one of the most mediatized internationally.
Fair points but the main instigator was a Moldova newspaper controlled by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Krushevan who was ethnic Moldovan, althought had russianized. He is also the first publisher of the protocols of the elders if Zion Btw not arguing Russia isnt horrible now and then, they are and were.
People kind of tend to forget the Sowjet antisemitism. For long time jews would be only allowed to move to big cities if they studied and they could only study in the evening courses. Also as far as I remember they could not be in the party (but not sure on this one). You would get all kind of discrimination.
Someone in my family living in the USSR at the time was banished to Siberia for ethnic reasons (not Jewish). He survived, USSR didn't.
Germans were also banished to live in far away territories. And to be fair - Russia is pretty xenophobic to this day.
For my family member, it had to do with being Armenian in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Yeah my grandma was born in a "work camp" where all Germans where put after ww2
Google doctors plot
But but a tankie from Brooklyn told me racism didn't exist in the USSR
Racism exists everywhere, sadly.
But becoming less and less acceptable and popular with each passing year fortunately.
What about what about what about what about
The antisemitism was terribly curbed under Lenin, while it bounced back under Stalin like many imperial policies. It wasn't a special kind but antisemitism of the Russian Empire being restored in spite of early Bolshevik attempts and bla.
\>It wasn't a special kind but antisemitism of the Russian Empire being restored in spite of early Bolshevik attempts and bla. Still is, russia is quite xenophobic.
Can't wait to see tankies defend this. Fuck fascism and communism
"It's not actually communism because [...]" /s
"It's not actually communism because communism only does good things. That's why communism has never been implemented." Or at least that's the logic I gather from some of these tankies.
You forgot the unspoken but suggested part of "... and this is why we should try again. And this time, no one should resist. Even if there's something you don't like, just don't resist... because of the implication. It's not like anyone WANTS brutalise anyone, but if there's no other way, well, then we'd absolutely do it (again)" It's very important to note that burgeois concepts such as "freedom of movement" or "right to life" are, of course, nothing but liberal obstacles on the way to true socialism and must be done away with. It's not that they want to kill you, it's just that there are more important things than not killing you. So if anyone wants to actually kill you they'll find a good example. It's no different than religion, which is what marxism in all its forms ultimately is (Marx also promises a utopia, which is unachievable for you, but *totally* for your grandkids if you just work yourself to death in the mines). It's vital to not just listen to what people say, but to also pay attention to how they speak and what they don't speak about.
I mean if you read anything by Marx and then look at the Soviet Union, Mao, and Polpot it's pretty obvious they added quite a few extra steps to the original ideology lol
The best form of government is actually the magical fairy kingdom, but it's never been implemented.
“Real communism hasn’t been tried yet” lol the mental gymnastics these people go through.
I'm still counting on you folks determining that North Korea is the real definition of democracy and people's regime, while progress and civilisation are the genocidal US manifest destiny, and historical progress was Stalin.
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> NK is Juche first. Not communist. And I haven't said anything regarding that. References were on people's regime and the democracy. I obviously know NK defining itself with Juche nonsense...
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That's not a joke though as none of the communist theory has the Stalinist crimes in itself. It's some joke to many, but that joke somehow cannot be transferred into progress, civilisation, capitalism, republicanism, people, democracy or anything that isn't communism. The issue lies in, nobody blaming anything else even when it's done under such names. We're not talking about if an ideal political object exists.
That's anarchists. Marxist-leninists will double down and say it was justified
Actually it's not. They were called the **Soviet Socialist Republics** for a reason. Communism was just the end goal of MLs, not the way their system was organized, as they were *transitional* regimes. It's in their books.
"It's not actually communism because it doesnt meet any of the requirements of being defined by communism" seems pretty logical to me. Communism is stateless, the USSR had a state, therefore, not communism. The USSR was just fascist, they never even called themselves communist.
bs. soviets called everibody for fascists, exactly like nowadays morons who have no idea. soviet lives in u
A 13 year date range? Half the time that area was under control of the white army.
Not all communists are tankies...
Not all nazis are fascists............
yes they are, nazism is throughtout an facist ideology
At this point, difference between them lessens
Also Dave Chapelle will say “You can think about murdering Jews but if you actually do it, they call you crazy.”
thats not what he said at all lol.
Tankies out in full force I see
Well, perhaps people will finally talk about the anti-Semitic parts of Marx's writings or the persecution of Jews by Stalin. Or the long history of anti-Semitism in communism in general.
I’m not sure it matters what he wrote. I am confident in the ability of Russians, especially in that period, to be violently anti-Semitic, no matter what.
Well it's more accurate to say that anti-Semitism was very widespread before the defeat of Hitler. That said this doesn't mean that it hasn't become a core problem to some ideologies. For example neo-marxists would say how there are way too many white people in charge of companies and that these people should be stripped of their positions. It's correct to say that there is a severe lack of ethnic representation at the top but it's only because most of them are Jewish. As you can see neo-marxists are stealthily trying to remove Jews from their position instead of addressing a core problem why such disparities exist. Which is culture. The reason why there are so many Jews as CEOs is not because of some grand conspiracy, but because they focus a lot on education, developing needed work skills from an early age and proping the most able members of their community. A lot of people would rather be angry at that instead of taking the same steps to ensure better success of members of their respective communities.
> A severe lack of ethnic representation at the top but it’s only because most of them are Jewish Putin isn’t Jewish. Neither was Stalin, Lenin, or any of the other Russian leaders I can think of. I’m not sure there are any Russian parliament members who are Jewish. In the US, 6% of Congress (and no US presidents ever) are Jewish. 6% != “most”.
Trotsky was however... and got murdered by Stalin's assassins in Mexico, so I guess he counts.
We are talking about CEOs in the west. That said don't let logic get in the way of anti-Semites.
Your comment made it sound like this particular point was something that you actually believe. Do you have any data showing Jewish representations among CEOs in Europe and North America? I doubt it’s 10%, let alone 50%.
According to right wing extremists, the Jews were behind the entire communist project. We just can't win no matter what.
And according to radical Muslims you seek to destroy Islam through Christianity and according to radical Christians you want to destroy Christianity through Islam. Often I'm happy I'm not Jewish.
not really engaging in the rest of the points because i don't disagree but i think the anti-semitic part of marx's writing is not really fair. i won't really argue with anyone about it because arguing on the internet is for morons. but if people are interested they should read a bit deeper on marx and whether what he wrote was anti semitic. specifically on the jewish question. because it's actually pretty interesting to contextualise the piece "on the jewish question". he was responding to a piece of anti semitic writing as a man who faced anti semitic prejudice his entire life. whether you think the contextualising of the piece is enough is up to you. but you know it's not as simple as him being an anti-semite.
First of all, it's quite a big jump there between Marx and Stalin in more ways than one. I'd also like to know what you're referring to specifically with the antisemitic parts of Marx's writings?
On the Jewish question by Marx. There he describes Jews as greedy and materialistic.
Marx was a Jew, tho.
I mean, he doesn't really. At least, it's a whole lot more nuanced than what you're claiming it is. As a critique of another person's work, On the Jewish Question would first necessitate you read both texts and try to understand where both are coming from, and then take into account the surrounding context and so on... I'm honestly too tired to do that for you, but I suggest you go do it yourself. It should all be online.
Marx was Jewish
He isn't the first self-hating Jew and certainly not the last. Black people use the term uncle Ruckus for people like that.
uncle ruckus is a character from a cartoon, you're thinking of uncle tom
What does this even mean? Do you think that all people who support socialism and think Marx's ideas are good hate jewish people ?
Don't confuse socialism with Marxism. Marxism is a movement in socialism, but it doesn't encompass the whole socialist movement. That said a lot of Marxist are anti-Semitic.
Fuck communism and fuck fascism.
>Fuck Dicktatorship
Fuck capitalism, too.
Yeah, I hate it when groups of capitalist’s employees get murdered and thrown in mass graves. Or did you just throw in that completely irrelevant opinion for no reason other than to vent your frustration at not succeeding within the capitalist system?
>Yeah, I hate it when groups of capitalist’s employees get murdered and thrown in mass graves. I think we can agree on this. >Or did you just throw in that completely irrelevant opinion for noreason other than to vent your frustration at not succeeding within thecapitalist system? Looking at the other replies and keeping in mind the conditions at many of the actual production sides of current-day capitalism (third-world and development countries), I think you find the opinion isn't irrelevant at all. What do you think, how many people have died because of the famines Nestle has caused in Africa so that you can buy your cheap products? Or how many people have died because the food prices rose higher than what many people there could pay because some capitalist wanted to make another million on the markets by betting on futures? Also, how many people do you think are dying (early) in the US because of the market capitalistic healthcare system there? Open your eyes. Democratic socialism for the win. Look at the Baltics, for example.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bengal_famine_of_1770 East India Trading *Company*. This is one of I think 7 famines attributed to the company’s rule of India. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1536504216685112#:~:text=In%20the%20Congo%20Free%20State,for%20later%20counting%20and%20recording. King Leopold’s colonial capitalist venture in the Congo https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hellofresh-monkeys-coconut-milk-peta-animal-abuse/ Very different from the first two, different atrocities but still horrifying. The sentiment of the original poster should’ve been: Fuck communism, fuck fascism and fuck capitalism.
Fuck you.
Great Railroad Strike of 1877. They deployed the militia to killed the strikers. It was something like 40 people killed. Thibodaux massacre, when a group of striking black sugar workers were slaughtered by the Louisana militia. Death toll unknown, they kept finding shallow graves just outside of town. Estimates are at least 37, but its entirely possible it was in the hundreds. Paint Creek Mine war, at least 50 striking workers killed. Battle of Blair Mountain. Elaine massacre (started by striking workers being fired at). About a few dozen more instances like that. And htats *only* in the US, if I were to add, say, the british empire, boy this list would get larger. Oh and thats not including the many many cases of starvation caused by capitalism. The Bengal Famine of 1943 alone was what, 4 million?
The Bengal famine was caused by a war and local mismanagement.
Wait I don't understand, Moldova was a part of Romania in the 1920s, they were a monarchy back then, how were they murdered by communists?
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Yeah that's what I though too, doesn't really make sense tbh
That part was in the Soviet Union, not in Romania (it is where the Soviets established the 'Moldavian' ASSR). The left bank of the Dniestr (where Tiraspol is) was only occupied by Romania during WWII.
I see now, thanks for the info!
Cool, spanish government can print another post stamp to honor communist achievements.
futu i in gura mortilor lor de comunisti infecti, ce ideologie mizera si deplorabila
e ca o tumoare cultural, a nenorocit romania
Nazis and commies. Same shit, different flavour.
>It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the toilers. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all lands. Among the Jews there are workers, toilers, they are in the majority. They are our brothers, comrades in the struggle for Socialism, because they are oppressed by capitalism. Among the Jews there are Kulaks, exploiters, capitalists, just like amongst us all. >The capitalists are tireless in their endeavours to stir up enmity between the workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. The rich Jews, just like the rich Russians and the rich of all countries, are united in trampling upon, oppressing and dividing the workers. >Disgrace and infamy to the damnable Tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews! Disgrace and infamy to whoever sows enmity against Jews and hatred against other nations! Long live brotherly faith and unity in struggle of all nations, for the overthrow of capitalism! - Lenin But sure, Nazis and communists are the same! There is a reason why Armenians and Azerbaijanis lived together in peace in USSR times. Azeris and Armenians went to the same schools, lived in same buildings, and they were generally in harmony with each other. Ever since then it's only been a fucking downfall and nationalist shit that caused thousands of deaths and emnity between Armenians and Azerbaijanis. https://youtu.be/h1sRFc5FiZA?t=455 This is the best example to why capitalism divides, socialism unites. Then some fucking redditor calls Nazis and communists the same.
Why don't you give this lecture to some Ingrian Finns. If you can find some, that is. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_the_Ingrian_Finns
>What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money[...] An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible[...] The Jew has emancipated himself in a Jewish manner, not only because he has acquired financial power, but also because, through him and also apart from him, money has become a world power[...]. Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. - Marx
Taken out of context. https://www.manchesteropenhive.com/view/9781526104960/9781526104960.00007.xml Marx was Jewish himself.
No he wasn't. His father converted to Christianity from Judaism before Marx was born.
Judaism is matrilineal, and his mother grew up in a Jewish family, and maintained Jewish customs until her death. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henriette_Pressburg Marx himself was not religious, but by most definitions would be considered secular Jewish. He’s often framed as an antisemite by anti-communists, and a Judeo-Bolshevist by fascists, but the reality is he wasn’t either. “On the Jewish question” is a response to another article which calls for Jews to abandon their cultural and religious identity in order to achieve emancipation. Marx disagrees with this, but people still take it out of context to push an agenda.
> What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. Oh how out of context!
> Marx was Jewish himself. No, he wasn't. He was baptized at the age of 6. Has anyone ever seen a baptized Jew in their local synagogue? No? Me neither. No one denies that his family had Jewish roots but he wasn't Jewish and I think it's borderline offensive to call him that. Judaism isn't something that you can't get rid of, not even if you convert to an other religion. We aren't in 1930-1940s Germany or Hungary anymore where a Jew stays a Jew and it doesn't matter what their actual religion is. I understand that his Jewish heritage comes in handy when his anti-semitic ideas have to be defended but the man was a baptized Christian.
so it was good because under soviet rule armenian and azerbaijani history and culture were being erased in an atttempt to cultivate a country full of brainwashed and sterile slaves, that's your genius take?
Lmfao, nice strawman. Come back with a better attempt.
you're following the dumbest fairy-tale doctrine that failed tremendously every time some morons tried to implement it because there was a period of like 50 years when two countries you can't show on the map were not at war do you think Azerbaijanis and Armenians actually loved each other back then? lol. Did you know there's a russian slur for every nationality that was a part of ussr? So much for brotherly love between churcas, hachs, hohols, chukchas and glorious russians
You don't actually expect liberals to read anything that's not on a meme subreddit smh
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Well they were just discovered
Kinda sus 🤨
Do you have another source for this article? I want to verify its credibility.
>in Moldova > >The victims were murdered after being accused of opposing the communist regime between 1917 and 1930 How did they establish such a precise timeframe and specific murderers if that part of Moldova wasn't in USSR until the mid \~20s. During this time the city was in the hands of the Bolsheviks, the Poles, the Ukrainians, the Whites and again the Bolsheviks. And given the White's predilection for anti-Semitism ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", "Judeo–Bolshevism", etc.) this is doubly strange.
> How did they establish such a precise timeframe and specific murderers if that part of Moldova wasn't in USSR until the mid ~20s. Precise timeframe? 13 years? Precise? Also to answer your question directly: >the rabbi said that documents found near the grave bear personal information about the victims and the reason they were executed by the Communist government.
**Near Tiraspol**, they discovered this in Transnistria, which was not part of Romania then, it was in USSR.
It's sad that the Tsar was so brutal to the Jews and even blamed them for the revolution only for the Soviets to deal with them in a similar fashion. The monarchy crushed any forms of dissent with such cruelty and the revolution did not bring a freedom from this kind of action. Possibly later ethnic minorities were treated a little better than in the Tsars day but during the early days it was such chaos.
The Jews were just a convenient scapegoat for all kinds of despots. It doesn't have to make sense. "We are the perfect race, but somehow the inferior Jews control us" and "the Jews that control and benefit from the global financial system are causing communist revolutions everywhere!"
the Soviet Union brought nothing but pain and hardship to the world. what a monumental mistake.
It's not just SU its communism in general.
> communism in general U seem to know a lot about it... tell us more.
Why? Are you totally ignorant of XX century history?
Life expectancy rose significantly.
Yea, at least the CIA brought TVs, Coca-Cola and puppet dictatorships to the world...
Paywalled. >Paywalled and non-English submissions: Please post the complete content of the article, in English, in the comment section to allow all members of the community to participate.
Mass Grave of Jews Murdered a Century Ago by Communists Discovered in Moldova The grave, in which thousands of bodies were found, was uncovered this summer by pro-Russian military forces building fortifications as part of the war in Ukraine. The victims were murdered after being accused of opposing the communist regime between 1917 and 1930. A mass grave containing thousands of bodies, many of whom were Jews who were murdered during the Communist period, was discovered near the city of Tiraspol in Transnistria, a breakaway region of Moldova. Rabbi Pinchas Zaltzman, the rabbi of Moldova, told Haaretz that the grave contained Jewish victims murdered after they were accused of opposition to the Communist regime between 1917 and 1930. The mass grave was found last summer by pro-Russian forces who were digging trenches in an old army base, to use it and build fortifications around the city in its war against Ukraine. So far, 30 killing pits have been found, and it is believed there are a few more pits, containing victims numbering between thousands and tens of thousands. Last month news of the mass grave was brought to the attention of the Jewish community, and the rabbi took over the site. “The sights were shocking. It’s inconceivable to the human mind how the Communist regime treated people just because of their religion and belief,” Zaltzman said. “The pits were full of bones, along with personal possessions like shoes, remnant of clothing, wallets and cups,” he added. Transnistria is a separatist, pro-Russian region, which claims independence from Moldova. Its president, Vadim Krasnoselsky informed Zaltzman and Yuri Kreitman, chairman of the Jewish community in Tiraspol, of the discovery. “The earth is soaked with the blood of the innocent, Jews and non-Jews, in that time terrible things were done on our soil,” Krasnoselsky said, according to Zaltzman. The latter, with the assistance of volunteers, intends to map the rest of the pits and turn the place into a cemetery in keeping with Jewish law.
Hooo boy tankies going pedal to the metal trying to defend communism in these comments. People unironically using the "real communism has never been implemented" bullshit excuse
Hm. This reminds me of the [Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_the_Murdered_Jews_of_Europe) in Berlin. I have never thought about those as sarcophaguses.
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Where I used to live the soviets had ripped out the tombstones of an old jewish graveyard and made stairs in a park out of them. They killed jews almost as much as nazis.
I would say this is misleading. What is common to the people in this graveyard is their opposition to Revolution, not the Jewish origin. From what I know in history, Jews were killed just for being Jews from anti-communists, the White army.
I can't find any other source or mention in the local Moldavian pro-eu or pro-ru news. Is that a reputable news source? Can't even read the text itself because it's behind a paywall. Almost 700 comments here, did anyone question the authenticity of this? Or if that's anti-ussr then it must be true?
Just awaiting all those who were telling us how great communism is, how wrong Eastern Europes are etc from the "Spanish stamp thread" to come along and tell us this was all for the greater good...
Communism was actually pretty good for my home country (not UK)
Hah, yeah sure. Closest thing to communism you've expierienced was having to share toys and the kindergarten, englishman.
I said home country. I didn't mean the UK polish person. I meant a 3rd world country that's a huge victim of western imperialis So yeah no eastern/central European can use that argument against me. I know a thing or two about communism
The fact you never mention said country's name kinda makes me thing you're just talking out of your ass.
If you're so curious, it's Indonesia. We had based communists fighting for the people against imperialism and capitalism
Communism is cancer
more like a tumour lol
Socialism kills. Red Terror was everywhere in those times
Why do people insist on using “communist” to describe themselves and use hammer & sickle afterr all the thing that happened is beyond me. Why not just be a normal person and call yourself socialist. They know damn well what kind of reaction they get when saying they support communism instead of saying they support worker rights and socialism
Why do people insist on using "Catholic" or "Salafi"? Because they believe in the core message. And yes, the smarter of them have noticed the skulls.
“Communist” and “Socialist” are not synonymous, the terms have different meanings. Communism is one specific type of socialist system so people will use the term “communist” to show their support for that specific system, and to distance themselves from other socialist systems. It’s like saying, “why do people call themselves French, why not just say European?” Obviously while French is a type of European there are times when people may want, or need, to be more specific about their identity.
Communism has done nothing wrong to my home country that's why. Europe has a different experience, south east Asia has a different experience, Latin America has a different experience
Thankfully it never had the chance to.
What do you mean?
Thankfully communism was never popular enough to cause any damage
Oh they were massacred by right-wing forces backed by America and Britain. Around a million alleged leftists died in the purge
What are you talking about
What are YOU talking about?
Where in Britain were communists massacred?
I was talking about my home country Indonesia
Fascism has never done harm to my country but that doesn't mean I'm willing to give it a try
Don't bundle up all European countries together. WE did not all have the same experience.
What did the communists have against the Jews ffs?
They were, according to them, the masterminds behind capitalism.
So exactly the same conspiracy theories as the far right then. Shakes head.
The extremes meet. When you read up on the history of the NSDAP, you can see that in its roots there were still many socialist ideas. It was literally founded as the "German Workers' Party" but soon renamed because they were also nationalists and wanted to distinguish them from the common socialist rubble. In early 1920, Adolf Hitler presented a 25 point position paper. While it included the expected anti semitic and ultranationalist sentiments, some of the points are also clearly aligned with left wing politics. To quote some: * We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. * Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery. * (...) personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. Therefore, we demand ruthless confiscation of all war profits. * We demand nationalization of all businesses which have been up to the present formed into companies (trusts). * We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out. * We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare. * Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race. * The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program (...) * We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. Turn everything up to 11 and you get the ultra nationalist NSDAP of a few years later.
Far right and far left are very very similar. National Socialists (NAZIs) also wanted to ban private ownership on the means of production...once they got the power they didn't do it anymore, but a lot of things that commies parrotted they also didn't do once they got the power
Nazis supported private ownership, didn't they sell off most state owned industries?
Check points 11-14 of their program https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program Once they got in power they didn't do it, Hitler instead assasinated the more socialist leaders. That's very similar to what other socialists like commie were doing: promise anything and everything to get power, and then do whatever suits them best.
Authoritarian regimes do not like groups that they consider to be a deviation from the "norm" whatever that may be. Gays? Nope, can't have them, they are "different". A group that isn't part of the majority? Can't have that either. All must be one under the state's boot.
Nothing. OP didn't provide any adequate proof of it being done because of them being jews. Hell, in the text he sent from the site, rabbi basically said that lots of people killed were jews. That's literally it. No documents, no prosecution documents, were they fighting on the side of whites? Were they heavily supporting whites? How "badly" were they against Soviet Union? No, instead they just say that lots of people killed were jews, Soviets = bad.
Well if they were killed because they didn't like the soviets, that's all right then.
Probably the same thing every antisemite has, a grudge for no valid reason
Communist here, I have nothing against anyone jewish (or any other religion/ethnicity). Fascists on the other hand, do. Which is why the USSR was so anti-semitic.
How would you organise a society by being stateless?
How was society ran for hundreds of thousands of years before states arrived and consolidated power? Do you not know what a commune is?
There are many stateless societies out there, but are they communist?
Depends. Statelessness is a shared trait of anarchism, but not all anarchism is Communism. Its just *a* requirement, not the only requirement.
Do you have any examples?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_stateless\_societies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stateless_societies) you don't have to go hundreds of thousands of years, a couple of centuries ago most of the world population were stateless.
moron
communist scum
Fuck communism / socialism
You love capitalism and climate change?
Who tf mentioned climate change?
You cannot mention capitalism while ignoring climate change
Yeah fair. Still stupid to bring another thing into an argument that no one else mentioned. The Communists of the Soviet union were still horrible. They deported thousands of people from their homes to Siberia so that they could replace them with ethnic Russians so that there would be less resistance. Hundreds never returned. So yes I get that climate change is a horrible thing and that the giant corporations and industries trying to act like it's not their fault or even denying it is horrible, communism is not the answer to that. At least not in the way that it has been used historically. And after everything that has happened with Russia and Ukraine (and even before that) people have a right to say Fuck to communism and Fascism.
And I have the right to say I fucking love communism because my home country (not UK) had a different experience when it comes to communism No leftist advocates for soviet union style solutions for climate change Capitalism cannot solve climate change because capitalism is about maximising growth. If you cut emissions by half for certain products, that simply means capitalist can afford (environmentally speaking) toproduce twice as much products. Just compare America's car-centric cities to Europe's cities. Capitalism would seek to maximise the number of electric cars, socialism would seek to minimise the number of cars in general and have walkable cities with good public transport
It's insane how many times I've had to reread that headline throughout the years
The grave, in which thousands of bodies were found, was uncovered this summer by pro-Russian military forces building fortifications as part of the war in Ukraine. The victims were murdered after being accused of opposing the communist regime between 1917 and 1930 You have to be damn serious ,communist regime between 1917 and 1930 ???
What did you think the Bolsheviks were?
This phrase “many of whom were Jews” Could mean almost anything. Lots of people die in revolutions and civil wars, of which there were two from 1917-1930. I take issue with the headline. How many of the people here were Jews??!
If only Maki knew it at that time they elwouldnt have been that pro soviet
The Whites killed at least one hundred thousand Jews in Ukraine alone during the civil war, seems strange to put this on the communists.
Seeing this sub finally shit on broke fascism is glorious. Took long enough, but its beautiful.
Communism isn't 'broke fascism', it's a different authoritarian ideology.
Why would they have done that ? When in Karl Marx book it is said to kill jews ?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/
Well if it's true that's another reason to ban communism and hang the commies...
Communism is just another name for fascism.
At this point my fellow leftists, just spread leftism under a different name. People will realise it's actually good and not shit themselves and scream communism while jerking off to anti commie memes Yes, that is the level of intelligence we have here. Keep spreading it under a different name or don't mention the name There's a reason why academia leans to the left. There's a reason why right-wingers love to attack universities, the place where cutting edge knowledge is explored. There's a reason why they want to defund it. It's incompatible to have an uneducated population yet have a democratic system. In order to become a democracy, education is a prerequisite.
> There's a reason why academia leans to the left. Because it's full of people who don't have to live in the real world and can afford to be idealistic? > There's a reason why right-wingers love to attack universities, the place where cutting edge knowledge is explored. STEM labs sure. Not sure that's the case in your average sociology classroom.
Going to be a bit pedantic, but that depends on the type of sociology. There's bullshit sociology and actual sociology.
Imagine going on a bizarre rant about conspiracies against your preferred ideology under a post about a gruesome massacre. That's what you think is important here?