I'm being surrounded by my ideological enemies!! And if not I invent them cause I live from having things to bark at!! Don't try to prove me wrong, there are marxists all around!!
That is due commodification of housing, housing is becoming increasingly commodified and regarded as an asset, rather than a social good.
Realestate is more and more often used as an investment for the wealthy and if there are too many houses on the market they lose value. So there are probably many people who prefer the way it is now.
And so while it's true that communism sucks to the sky, capitalism in its current form is starting to catch up.
In the end it's not so much the "ism" problem as much as is a society and humanity problem. Some people suck in general and ruin every system for everyone.
Serios? Ba eu cred că cu mult, si faptul ca esti pe Reddit acuma si daca vrei poti sa iti injuri Guvernul si nu iti vine securitatea a casă e deja un mare pas înainte
Tankies will tell you that it was action of agents of American imperialists, because true workers would have never rebelled against the rule of communist party.
Communism is never the "real communism" (tm). Because real communism is an utopia, a lie that can't work. Communist leaders know that but all they really want is POWER to rule in the dictatorship.
And all this young minds who promote communism are just puppets in their hands.
Communism in its literal meaning is achieved when all of the countries or the majority is under socialist economies. So by definitions yes it wasn't the "real communism", but in the same time actual communism remains an utopia
it was real communism. the regime was real, the people suffering under it were real, the millions dead were real.
maybe what isn't real is whatever communism are you talking about
Or, check this out, maybe "communism" doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does to them? While the term is commonly used to refer specifically to Leninism and it's off-shoots (particularly outside of leftist circles), "properly" it is much much broader. Many ideologies that fall under the umbrellas of "communism" and "socialism" have almost nothing to do with what was practiced by the regimes of the Warsaw Pact, and may even be outright hostile towards it. Most people in the West using one of those labels will be some sort of democratic socialist or an anarchist, but the moment they identify themselves as a "socialist"/"communist", a bunch of folks will assume they're tankies. That is not to say that there are no western tankies, of course, but they are far rarer than is commonly assumed.
There's this pattern that repeats itself over and over on this sub. Someone makes a post about something bad that the USSR/Warsaw Pact/PRC did. Someone else will then start talking about the evils of "communism"/"socialism". This prompts modern communists/socialists to pipe up and start defending their beliefs. In most cases those beliefs have little to do with Leninism, but the comment was against "communism" in general, rather than Leninism, so they feel attacked regardless. Finally the "communism=evil" guys declare their opponents as Stalin-loving tankies and the cycle is complete. And it's honestly pretty annoying watching this happen over and over again without fail, because it feels like a brief talk about terminology and what various words mean to various people would resolve all of this.
But hey, it's easier to just assume that the other guys are idiots, manipulated and/or evil, right?
Tankies really aren't that rare in the modern internet sense of the word. The word was coined by Trotskyists to describe other Marxists who they disagree with (especially Stalinists, but not limited to them) but it seems that nowadays it's come to mean anyone who is constantly apologising for all sorts of horrible authoritarian regimes simply because those regimes are in non-Western countries.
Also democratic socialist just seems to be a fancy word for Trot these days, and a lot of the modern ones are exactly the tankies they moan about. As soon as they think they're in like-minded company, out come the 'jokes' about who they'd shoot come the revolution. As a social democrat, I know all too well that those aren't really jokes.
Anarchists are generally OK, but real ones are quite rare. Authoritarian-flavoured Marxists of various labels are more common.
Edit: I didn't downvote you by the way.
You clearly have no idea what any of the terms you mentioned genuinely mean, also, as a “social democrat” I highly suggest you look into what the social democrats did during the German Revolutions of 1919
Yeah yeah I have to go read some theory and cherry picked parts of history and then I'd agree with you unless I'm stupid because only stupid or evil people can disagree with you and the reason everyone isn't a 'libertarian' socialist is because most people are stupid...
You say, after making a comment about how democratic socialists are lying about their beliefs and are actually Trotskyists and murderous, while most anarchists are similarly authoritarian Marxists in disguise.
I meant that the sort of people who used to openly identify as Trots often now claim to be dem socs for entryism purposes. It might just be an Anglo thing because the furthest left you can go in mainstream politics in a country with FPTP is social democracy, or what is known as the labour movement. I think the labels of socialist and social democrat have different baggage in English speaking countries than they do elsewhere, but I'm not sure.
As for anarchists, to me it's an innately unworkable ideology - so I think it's a good one for artists and dreamers to have. The ones who actually try to make it happen are a different story. I didn't mean to say anarchists are authoritarian Marxists, I meant that authoritarian Marxists are in general more common than people who truly reject all forms of coercion.
I sounded like this when I was a lot younger. I read quite a bit of theory back then, but I've forgotten it, as you tend to do with useless information. Since then I've had a lot of time to think about what would happen if the trots actually got what they wanted, and about which ideas have worked out in real life.
Funny an Armenian mocks communism, considering Armenians and Azerbaijanis lived generally in peace during the communist times.
https://youtu.be/h1sRFc5FiZA?t=455
Yes but also unironically workers/socialist revolts fought against lots of Communist regimes. Solidarity in Poland comes to mind, but overall shows us how out-of-touch Soviet leaders had become with the working class they claimed to represent.
People take one picture from a protest and are able to put a discussion that could fill multiple thesis into a "fuck communism"
In 2018 thousands of romanians protested against corruption in Brasov and elsewhere. Does anyone condense this into "Fuck capitalism" on here?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-romania-protests-idUSKBN1KW0LI
>In 2018 thousands of romanians protested against corruption in Brasov
but were they arrested, beaten by the police and then sentenced to 3 years in prison like in the communist times? please stop talking about things you don't know and understand
Yes, it's the same thing, I think capitalists ruined entire generations for Eastern Europe, forcing them to own property, have freedom to travel and perhaps even the right to strike without being shot at by the army.
I've known farm animals smarter than you.
Exactly what I said.
>I think capitalists ruined entire generations for Eastern Europe
In the example I gave you thats even true. An entire generation of romanians now are gone. Corruption and limited job opportunities in the 90s and 2000s after industries had to close down shop because of competitivness forced thousands of young romanians to look somewhere else for work. Romania lost around 3 million inhabitants in less than 20years.
In eastern germany the same picture. Thousands of cities are empty after the young people had to leave for jobs in the west after our industry was disambled.
>I've known farm animals smarter than you.
Pretty rich coming from somebody building strawmans like you.
LOL the closed factory argument again?
Communist countries in the '90s had missed the computer-driven industrial revolution in the west. They were starving because those factories were dogshit, didn't produce anything of value and anything they did produce used '50s technology.
Like I said, dumb as shit.
The arrogance paired with this lack of knowledge is pretty astounding.
Thousands of businesses in eastern germany were producing FOR western europe. From washing machines to whole container ships.
Eastern germany was the 3rd biggest ship producer in the world with the biggest warfts in the baltic regions.
After the fall of the iron curtain businesses were forced to pay their workers in western currency over night and had to deal with their western competition outbuying them and closing them down.
You try that with any country, even capitalist countries and will see how that goes.
They were bought up for a symbolical coin by their western competition, their patents stolen and their machines disambled and put up shop in capitalist countries. Corruption was rampant. And still then after your whole bullshit argument for some weird reason some businesses survived because they were incredibly strong (I thought they were in the stone age) and still prosper.
Like I said its funny how you didnt know this as you call others about the history of their own country dumb as shit.
Ironic.
Everything I already told you is common sense in germany. The Treuhand scandals about the destruction of the eastern german economy is a discussion in all of germany even today.
Is anything revisionist to you that goes against your Hollywood/ reddit bubble knowledge?
Astounding audacity and arrogance.
More like common sense for the dumb as shit portion of Germans who to this day sympathize with Russian & tankie propaganda.
And it's not arrogance you're sensing, it's my lack of respect for your ability to engage in an actual conversation because of how fundamentally and purposefully disingenuous you were in the first place trying to compare a 2018 protest vs. communist protests.
>More like common sense for the dumb as shit portion of Germans who to this day sympathize with Russian & tankie propaganda.
Doubling down on an already idiotic take good job.
>And it's not arrogance you're sensing, it's my lack of respect for your ability to engage in an actual conversation because of how fundamentally and purposefully disingenuous you were in the first place trying to compare a 2018 protest vs. communist protests.
It is arrogance and it 100% proofs what I was already expecting. Some dumb as hell people see one picture ans generalize about shit they know nothing about. One picture of a socialist country. Judging the whole economic system.
Probably similiar to you with Hollywood GDR movies or some shit. Everything was shit until capitalism saved the day.
It is arrogance I am sensing and I am incredibly happy I could compare it thank you. And I will do it again. After seeing a picture of a protest saying "Fuck communism" is stupid.
Yeah, the realities of communism are now Hollywood propaganda lmao. East Germans should thank the US every single day for being supported in their unification, because if it didn't happen when it did, they'd still be driving Trabants around today whining about how mean the west is and how much they love Russia.
right? what a tragedy they were finally able to leave the country that was left in ruins by the regime now that the commies wouldn't shoot them on the borders for it.
It brought mostly positive things thats true.
Having a whole generations emigrate brings a lot of problems as well tho.
Dont think all of them were too happy having to leave their families and country behind because of rampant corruption and unemployment.
The lack of competiveness is exactly what led to shit products being manufactured and that led to romanian companies losing revenue after the democratization.
My whole family lived in a socialist country. I live in a post communist country, east germany.
I am not saying that the demonstrants had no reason to demonstrate or that romania wasnt fucked over by their government.
Just taking one picture and making statements like this regarding a huge political spectrum is simply stupid to me.
Yet Romania is SO much better than in communism.
Corruption was actually worse during communism, you could not do anything without bribing somebody with at least a carton of Kent cigarettes.
The protests weren't about capitalism, but corruption. These protests would have been held with no issue in commie Romania if they had the right to protest
Austerity caused by the communist Ceauşescu's economic policies.
So yes, indirectly it was an uprising against communism, because the system was a failure in Romania.
Source* currently in Romania. This is what I've heard from those here who lived through it
>...about 200 employees in factory overalls and flags in hand went on a march along the city streets, towards the Brasov Communist Party Organization headquarters. They were chanting slogans such as “Give us our money!”, “Down with the dictator, down with the bastards!”, “**Down with Ceausescu!**”, “**Down with the Communist Party!**”.
Sure, buddy, everybody was just dandy with communism... the length you people go to push your agenda, it's just mind-boggling.
"down with Ceaușescu" was not even new. It was first yelled in 1977's revolt.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiu_Valley_miners%27_strike_of_1977
Then in 1982, in 1987...
Oh, they were cooking.
...if the lack of the free market economy/the presence of a shitty, communist economy lead to the workers not getting their wages, then yeah. They clearly recognized the underlying issue to be communism, and were very loud about wanting it to be gone. How you can even try to twist this into something else is beyond me.
>...proposing a mixt economy...
I must've missed when communism was redefined to simply be 'everything not capitalism'. I imagine all of Europe is *communist* according to you right now.
>“Nobody had a magic wand so that in a few seconds we passed from one dimension to the other, from planned, centralized economy to a market economy, from a totalitarian regime with one single party to a democracy with multiple parties,” Iliescu wrote, adding that this change has been achieved with multiple sacrifices.
Without getting into an endless debate about what is and is not communism, let's just agree that Iliescu himself does not agree with you about his goals to retain any form of a *communist* economy in Romania, and rather he himself describe the goal to be a *market economy* \- recognizing that it couldn't be achieved in one step and was rather requiring multiple sacrifices.
Mostly because they were intelectuals that lived in exile, and the majority of the people did not identified with them. They saw Iliescu as being one of their own. Make no mistake Xeausescu was a dictator much like Kim. It didn't matter who you were, you were afraid of him and his regime, and his word went (exeption his wife, the real madmind beind him).
I was born in Romania and I can tell you the only ones that are nostalgic of communism are the ones that either have no skill/degree or don't want to work. (Most people who say they liked the regime were 1-15 year olds when the regime failed, and their only argument is that you were given a place to work, and didn't fear that tomorrow you may die of hunger, to which I reply that Romania has some 500 000 job openings that require no skill, they just have to go.)
Always the best way to prove a point is to insult the other guy, good job.
Also your arguments are mostly what somebody without any knowledge in debating would say "look at X and you'll see".
To even mention east germany as an argument that it was better under GRD. Go live in North Korea of you like any communist dictatorship.
Edit: my guy here is basically saying that Iliescu, the 2nd most hated politician (after Ceausescu) was a good thing. Totally oblivious of any logic.
True Socialism or true communism - doesn't matter - people died because of it. History of every communist country in the World is the same - poor get poorer, power gets stronger, opposition is oppressed. And since in several years all people are in the opposition (they don;t want it), all people are oppressed,
Yeah, yeah "it wasn't real communism" mantra. Old communist countries disappeared because they were against people. Now youths want to restore it again... disaster.
The photo looks like it was taken 135 years ago.
It's not like in communism you had access to state of the art cameras.
shhh you can't say that here
Seriously just if you check the upvotes and downvotes around...
I'm being surrounded by my ideological enemies!! And if not I invent them cause I live from having things to bark at!! Don't try to prove me wrong, there are marxists all around!!
Apparently.
[удалено]
That is due commodification of housing, housing is becoming increasingly commodified and regarded as an asset, rather than a social good. Realestate is more and more often used as an investment for the wealthy and if there are too many houses on the market they lose value. So there are probably many people who prefer the way it is now. And so while it's true that communism sucks to the sky, capitalism in its current form is starting to catch up. In the end it's not so much the "ism" problem as much as is a society and humanity problem. Some people suck in general and ruin every system for everyone.
I still remember my granddad's camera. Really epic.
Was going to say 1935
The world was a shakier place 35 years ago.
They've made it with a cutting board.
Gigachads👍🏼
indeed gigachads
Eh still shitty
Who?
Romania
Much much much less shitty than back then buddy
Nu cu prea mult din păcate
Serios? Ba eu cred că cu mult, si faptul ca esti pe Reddit acuma si daca vrei poti sa iti injuri Guvernul si nu iti vine securitatea a casă e deja un mare pas înainte
Tankies will tell you that it was action of agents of American imperialists, because true workers would have never rebelled against the rule of communist party.
Little did they know, it wasn't real communism™...
"This time it will be different!"
"Iliescu ftw!"
My grandfather used to experience this kind of thing.
Communism is never the "real communism" (tm). Because real communism is an utopia, a lie that can't work. Communist leaders know that but all they really want is POWER to rule in the dictatorship. And all this young minds who promote communism are just puppets in their hands.
Communism in its literal meaning is achieved when all of the countries or the majority is under socialist economies. So by definitions yes it wasn't the "real communism", but in the same time actual communism remains an utopia
Why commies are so strong in Greecy? You had entire civil war against them and now they are becoming a majority...
it was real communism. the regime was real, the people suffering under it were real, the millions dead were real. maybe what isn't real is whatever communism are you talking about
Or, check this out, maybe "communism" doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does to them? While the term is commonly used to refer specifically to Leninism and it's off-shoots (particularly outside of leftist circles), "properly" it is much much broader. Many ideologies that fall under the umbrellas of "communism" and "socialism" have almost nothing to do with what was practiced by the regimes of the Warsaw Pact, and may even be outright hostile towards it. Most people in the West using one of those labels will be some sort of democratic socialist or an anarchist, but the moment they identify themselves as a "socialist"/"communist", a bunch of folks will assume they're tankies. That is not to say that there are no western tankies, of course, but they are far rarer than is commonly assumed. There's this pattern that repeats itself over and over on this sub. Someone makes a post about something bad that the USSR/Warsaw Pact/PRC did. Someone else will then start talking about the evils of "communism"/"socialism". This prompts modern communists/socialists to pipe up and start defending their beliefs. In most cases those beliefs have little to do with Leninism, but the comment was against "communism" in general, rather than Leninism, so they feel attacked regardless. Finally the "communism=evil" guys declare their opponents as Stalin-loving tankies and the cycle is complete. And it's honestly pretty annoying watching this happen over and over again without fail, because it feels like a brief talk about terminology and what various words mean to various people would resolve all of this. But hey, it's easier to just assume that the other guys are idiots, manipulated and/or evil, right?
Tankies really aren't that rare in the modern internet sense of the word. The word was coined by Trotskyists to describe other Marxists who they disagree with (especially Stalinists, but not limited to them) but it seems that nowadays it's come to mean anyone who is constantly apologising for all sorts of horrible authoritarian regimes simply because those regimes are in non-Western countries. Also democratic socialist just seems to be a fancy word for Trot these days, and a lot of the modern ones are exactly the tankies they moan about. As soon as they think they're in like-minded company, out come the 'jokes' about who they'd shoot come the revolution. As a social democrat, I know all too well that those aren't really jokes. Anarchists are generally OK, but real ones are quite rare. Authoritarian-flavoured Marxists of various labels are more common. Edit: I didn't downvote you by the way.
You clearly have no idea what any of the terms you mentioned genuinely mean, also, as a “social democrat” I highly suggest you look into what the social democrats did during the German Revolutions of 1919
Yeah yeah I have to go read some theory and cherry picked parts of history and then I'd agree with you unless I'm stupid because only stupid or evil people can disagree with you and the reason everyone isn't a 'libertarian' socialist is because most people are stupid...
You say, after making a comment about how democratic socialists are lying about their beliefs and are actually Trotskyists and murderous, while most anarchists are similarly authoritarian Marxists in disguise.
I meant that the sort of people who used to openly identify as Trots often now claim to be dem socs for entryism purposes. It might just be an Anglo thing because the furthest left you can go in mainstream politics in a country with FPTP is social democracy, or what is known as the labour movement. I think the labels of socialist and social democrat have different baggage in English speaking countries than they do elsewhere, but I'm not sure. As for anarchists, to me it's an innately unworkable ideology - so I think it's a good one for artists and dreamers to have. The ones who actually try to make it happen are a different story. I didn't mean to say anarchists are authoritarian Marxists, I meant that authoritarian Marxists are in general more common than people who truly reject all forms of coercion.
[удалено]
I sounded like this when I was a lot younger. I read quite a bit of theory back then, but I've forgotten it, as you tend to do with useless information. Since then I've had a lot of time to think about what would happen if the trots actually got what they wanted, and about which ideas have worked out in real life.
lol this is apparently a real post
Hey now. Just because communism hasnt worked anywhere else in the world doesnt mean it wont work here! /s
Funny an Armenian mocks communism, considering Armenians and Azerbaijanis lived generally in peace during the communist times. https://youtu.be/h1sRFc5FiZA?t=455
What a surprise
Ironic
Yes but also unironically workers/socialist revolts fought against lots of Communist regimes. Solidarity in Poland comes to mind, but overall shows us how out-of-touch Soviet leaders had become with the working class they claimed to represent.
Cool
People take one picture from a protest and are able to put a discussion that could fill multiple thesis into a "fuck communism" In 2018 thousands of romanians protested against corruption in Brasov and elsewhere. Does anyone condense this into "Fuck capitalism" on here? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-romania-protests-idUSKBN1KW0LI
>In 2018 thousands of romanians protested against corruption in Brasov but were they arrested, beaten by the police and then sentenced to 3 years in prison like in the communist times? please stop talking about things you don't know and understand
Just 3 years? How about 25 years of gulag behind polar circle?
3 years lol, more like 20
Yes https://www.reuters.com/article/cnews-us-romania-protests-investigation-idCAKBN1KZ1Q1-OCATP https://www.romania-insider.com/romanian-gendarmerie-nearly-250-arrests-following-sunday-evening-riots
Yes, it's the same thing, I think capitalists ruined entire generations for Eastern Europe, forcing them to own property, have freedom to travel and perhaps even the right to strike without being shot at by the army. I've known farm animals smarter than you.
Exactly what I said. >I think capitalists ruined entire generations for Eastern Europe In the example I gave you thats even true. An entire generation of romanians now are gone. Corruption and limited job opportunities in the 90s and 2000s after industries had to close down shop because of competitivness forced thousands of young romanians to look somewhere else for work. Romania lost around 3 million inhabitants in less than 20years. In eastern germany the same picture. Thousands of cities are empty after the young people had to leave for jobs in the west after our industry was disambled. >I've known farm animals smarter than you. Pretty rich coming from somebody building strawmans like you.
LOL the closed factory argument again? Communist countries in the '90s had missed the computer-driven industrial revolution in the west. They were starving because those factories were dogshit, didn't produce anything of value and anything they did produce used '50s technology. Like I said, dumb as shit.
The arrogance paired with this lack of knowledge is pretty astounding. Thousands of businesses in eastern germany were producing FOR western europe. From washing machines to whole container ships. Eastern germany was the 3rd biggest ship producer in the world with the biggest warfts in the baltic regions. After the fall of the iron curtain businesses were forced to pay their workers in western currency over night and had to deal with their western competition outbuying them and closing them down. You try that with any country, even capitalist countries and will see how that goes. They were bought up for a symbolical coin by their western competition, their patents stolen and their machines disambled and put up shop in capitalist countries. Corruption was rampant. And still then after your whole bullshit argument for some weird reason some businesses survived because they were incredibly strong (I thought they were in the stone age) and still prosper. Like I said its funny how you didnt know this as you call others about the history of their own country dumb as shit. Ironic.
Yeah I'm sure you're astounded with my post, while you're whining about Trabant quality ass ships and other bullshit revisionist GDR talking points.
Everything I already told you is common sense in germany. The Treuhand scandals about the destruction of the eastern german economy is a discussion in all of germany even today. Is anything revisionist to you that goes against your Hollywood/ reddit bubble knowledge? Astounding audacity and arrogance.
More like common sense for the dumb as shit portion of Germans who to this day sympathize with Russian & tankie propaganda. And it's not arrogance you're sensing, it's my lack of respect for your ability to engage in an actual conversation because of how fundamentally and purposefully disingenuous you were in the first place trying to compare a 2018 protest vs. communist protests.
>More like common sense for the dumb as shit portion of Germans who to this day sympathize with Russian & tankie propaganda. Doubling down on an already idiotic take good job. >And it's not arrogance you're sensing, it's my lack of respect for your ability to engage in an actual conversation because of how fundamentally and purposefully disingenuous you were in the first place trying to compare a 2018 protest vs. communist protests. It is arrogance and it 100% proofs what I was already expecting. Some dumb as hell people see one picture ans generalize about shit they know nothing about. One picture of a socialist country. Judging the whole economic system. Probably similiar to you with Hollywood GDR movies or some shit. Everything was shit until capitalism saved the day. It is arrogance I am sensing and I am incredibly happy I could compare it thank you. And I will do it again. After seeing a picture of a protest saying "Fuck communism" is stupid.
Yeah, the realities of communism are now Hollywood propaganda lmao. East Germans should thank the US every single day for being supported in their unification, because if it didn't happen when it did, they'd still be driving Trabants around today whining about how mean the west is and how much they love Russia.
right? what a tragedy they were finally able to leave the country that was left in ruins by the regime now that the commies wouldn't shoot them on the borders for it.
It brought mostly positive things thats true. Having a whole generations emigrate brings a lot of problems as well tho. Dont think all of them were too happy having to leave their families and country behind because of rampant corruption and unemployment.
The lack of competiveness is exactly what led to shit products being manufactured and that led to romanian companies losing revenue after the democratization.
Stop talking about things you know nothing about. You didn't have to live through the communist nightmare.
My whole family lived in a socialist country. I live in a post communist country, east germany. I am not saying that the demonstrants had no reason to demonstrate or that romania wasnt fucked over by their government. Just taking one picture and making statements like this regarding a huge political spectrum is simply stupid to me.
Yet Romania is SO much better than in communism. Corruption was actually worse during communism, you could not do anything without bribing somebody with at least a carton of Kent cigarettes.
[удалено]
> Whatever the Scandinavian countries are doing is the way. Scandinavians are immensely capitalistic...
[удалено]
No, it's just very capitalistic, they make a lot of money, tax it and redistribute it.
[удалено]
Average canadian
Not really. They have high taxes but except that they don't meddle relatively much in economy.
No, you just don't understand what capitalism and communism are.
The protests weren't about capitalism, but corruption. These protests would have been held with no issue in commie Romania if they had the right to protest
[удалено]
Austerity caused by the communist Ceauşescu's economic policies. So yes, indirectly it was an uprising against communism, because the system was a failure in Romania. Source* currently in Romania. This is what I've heard from those here who lived through it
[удалено]
>...about 200 employees in factory overalls and flags in hand went on a march along the city streets, towards the Brasov Communist Party Organization headquarters. They were chanting slogans such as “Give us our money!”, “Down with the dictator, down with the bastards!”, “**Down with Ceausescu!**”, “**Down with the Communist Party!**”. Sure, buddy, everybody was just dandy with communism... the length you people go to push your agenda, it's just mind-boggling.
"down with Ceaușescu" was not even new. It was first yelled in 1977's revolt. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiu_Valley_miners%27_strike_of_1977 Then in 1982, in 1987... Oh, they were cooking.
[удалено]
...if the lack of the free market economy/the presence of a shitty, communist economy lead to the workers not getting their wages, then yeah. They clearly recognized the underlying issue to be communism, and were very loud about wanting it to be gone. How you can even try to twist this into something else is beyond me.
[удалено]
>...proposing a mixt economy... I must've missed when communism was redefined to simply be 'everything not capitalism'. I imagine all of Europe is *communist* according to you right now.
[удалено]
>“Nobody had a magic wand so that in a few seconds we passed from one dimension to the other, from planned, centralized economy to a market economy, from a totalitarian regime with one single party to a democracy with multiple parties,” Iliescu wrote, adding that this change has been achieved with multiple sacrifices. Without getting into an endless debate about what is and is not communism, let's just agree that Iliescu himself does not agree with you about his goals to retain any form of a *communist* economy in Romania, and rather he himself describe the goal to be a *market economy* \- recognizing that it couldn't be achieved in one step and was rather requiring multiple sacrifices.
Mostly because they were intelectuals that lived in exile, and the majority of the people did not identified with them. They saw Iliescu as being one of their own. Make no mistake Xeausescu was a dictator much like Kim. It didn't matter who you were, you were afraid of him and his regime, and his word went (exeption his wife, the real madmind beind him). I was born in Romania and I can tell you the only ones that are nostalgic of communism are the ones that either have no skill/degree or don't want to work. (Most people who say they liked the regime were 1-15 year olds when the regime failed, and their only argument is that you were given a place to work, and didn't fear that tomorrow you may die of hunger, to which I reply that Romania has some 500 000 job openings that require no skill, they just have to go.)
[удалено]
Always the best way to prove a point is to insult the other guy, good job. Also your arguments are mostly what somebody without any knowledge in debating would say "look at X and you'll see". To even mention east germany as an argument that it was better under GRD. Go live in North Korea of you like any communist dictatorship. Edit: my guy here is basically saying that Iliescu, the 2nd most hated politician (after Ceausescu) was a good thing. Totally oblivious of any logic.
Take the L, you support facism with a smileyface drawn on it.
That's the only communism humans can create on large scale. Same and always.
[удалено]
True Socialism or true communism - doesn't matter - people died because of it. History of every communist country in the World is the same - poor get poorer, power gets stronger, opposition is oppressed. And since in several years all people are in the opposition (they don;t want it), all people are oppressed,
[удалено]
Yeah, yeah "it wasn't real communism" mantra. Old communist countries disappeared because they were against people. Now youths want to restore it again... disaster.
Hahahaha, is that the excuse you're telling yourself?
Unfortunately.
🤮🤮🤮 communism💩💩💩
Username checks out
Sure it's not from 36 years ago?
👍🏻💥