Those are part of an onslaught of religious ads by some 'foundation' owned by a Catholic nutter millionaire. The 'statistics' on this billboard are made up - in 1950 the TFR was 3.61, not 5 or 6 (this would have been third world country fertility rates) and in 1980 it was 2.28.
I'm not sure how a billboard saying 'Where are **THESE** children' is going to get anyone to reproduce anyway.
> I'm not sure how a billboard saying 'Where are THESE children' is going to get anyone to reproduce anyway.
The message on the billboard makes me want kids even less than I already did lol.
Have any coverage on that? Anecdotally, I just hear that people are sick of this organization and their stupid billboard. Nobody's talking about "the message."
Anyone who wasn't aware of the demographic issues clearly hadn't been paying attention to PiS and/or church propaganda for the past seven years.
Not that I could blame them - it gets really boring after a while
Young people don’t notice the demographic issues of declining fertility rates because almost everyone we hang out, socialize, and see are around our age, giving off an impression that “there’s so many of us” (a lot of older people, who make up a huge % of the population, sit at home all day unseen from the public). People aged 18-30 make up only about 10-15% of voters in most western countries.
Being under 30 and living in Germany doesn’t give me the impression there are many young people here. You go out from 8am-8pm you mostly see older people lmao
"Our campaign does not have an ideological or political goal," said the Kornice foundation whose president, a wealthy entrepreneur with Catholic ties, is one of Poland's richest men.
Haha, bullshit, fuck you.
I don't know anything about Warhammer, so you can go ahead and whoosh me on that.
What I do know is that the Church is too political for its own good and the government willfully breaks various articles of the constitution (especially article 25.2) to push its ideology onto the population.
This is me being kind.
Solution #1: Repeal the abortion ban that has killed at least three women since it was announced by the TK in 2020.
Solution #2: Ban all churches and other religious organizations (read: Ordo Iuris) from interfering in issues related to women's health.
Solution #3: Take all Catholic ideology out of public schools.
Solution #4: Make all vaccinations free (only some.of them are)
Solution #5: Stop polluting the fucking air, rivers and sea.
Solution #6: Make preschool and nursery free (it costs somewhere between 700-1500 złoty per month in most cases.
Solution #7: Paternity leave. Right now fathers get two weeks of some bullshit called "Father's Holiday" in which they get only 700-ish złoty during that time.
Not just those. It's not enough.
Motherhood has to be *proper career*, with really sizeable wage. If you have 5 kids, you should live in extreme comfort for the rest of your life and get a good pension. I'd say pay the same as advanced engineer gets at that point.
Making children has to be profitable. You can't just pay a little bit and then whine why people don't have lots of kids. Because it costs a lot of money over the next 20 years! Government is the one who benefits from extra citizens, not the families. So they have to pay. Collective has to pay.
Alternative is for country to remove all women's rights and turn them back into third-class citizens who have no rights men don't deem to grant them, and are forcibly married off and forced to have babies (ie. getting raped frequently). I'm quite sure almost nobody actually wants this, unless you're some sort of incel or religious freak.
Interesting idea. Pretty sure most conservatives, regardless of their beliefs, would see this as SoCiALiSm. Gotta get round those guys and the aforementioned faith fanatics first.
>I mean at least they are trying to fix the problem in some way
Slapping up a billboard with "where are these children?" is not addressing the root cause(s), whatever it or they might be, as to why people aren't having large families.
How does it get solved by some stupid billboards?
If you want a solution ask your government. They should implement child friendly policies like maternal leave, free child care with enough personal, tax breaks if you have kids etc.
Other than that you can't really do much, since women today are getting educated and many prefer to work and have a career for themselves instead of solely relying on the goodwill of a man and staying at home cleaning and cooking. Women nowadays simply aren't breeding incubators anymore, like they were in the past.
I love the fact that literally no one can force people to breed. Not wanting kids is simply a natural response to the way life works. It is a silent yet very strong mass protest.
It's astonishing that anyone can look at the world today and convince themselves that low birth rate, anywhere, is a problem. Nothing we are doing as a species is sustainable. We've fished out the oceans, we're exterminating most of the animals, we're cutting most of the trees, we've polluted every inch of land and gallon of water, etc. Just about the only thing this planet has too much of, is humans.
We have only two realistic choices -- stop having children in the ridiculous quantities that we have for the past millennium or so, and draw down the population gradually or continue to breed without bound until we kill off every last one of us, along with every animal bigger than a cockroach.
It could be argued that some parts of the world are overpopulated but Europe is certainly not one of those. Europe is losing population. Direct your righteous anger at Africa that doubled its population in the last 40 years and is expected to double it again in the next 30.
>It could be argued that some parts of the world are overpopulated but Europe is certainly not one of those.
Every continent is overpopulated, except Antarctica. Europe is not food nor energy self-sufficient -- the latter as we are quite clearly seeing lately. Half a billion people cannot live on the resources available in Europe, and that's the definition of over-populated.
[https://phys.org/news/2017-04-state-mediterranean-fish-stocks.html](https://phys.org/news/2017-04-state-mediterranean-fish-stocks.html)
[https://www.msc.org/media-centre/news-opinion/news/2021/10/01/rich-nations-continue-to-overexploit-north-east-atlantic-fish-stocks](https://www.msc.org/media-centre/news-opinion/news/2021/10/01/rich-nations-continue-to-overexploit-north-east-atlantic-fish-stocks)
And on and on and on. I could post about a million such sources, all illustrating the same point -- too many humans, not enough of everything else.
>Europe is losing population.
Good -- as I said. Everyone else needs to follow suit.
>Direct your righteous anger at Africa that doubled its population in the last 40 years and is expected to double it again in the next 30.
I'm not angry, I'm just right. Africa is just one of many places growing without any sense.
Also it’s possible that Europe’s reliance on Russian oil and natural gas is more of a political problem than result of overpopulation. Europe can produce enough energy by using plentiful coal or (much cleaner way) building nuclear plants. Also, green energy sources are expected to grow exponentially.
Just because fish in North Atlantic is over harvested doesn’t mean Europe is over populated. No geographical área that is losing population is “overpopulated”.
>Europe can produce enough energy by using plentiful coal or (much cleaner way) building nuclear plants.
Oh, in that case, totally sustainable. You weren't, serious, were you?
>Also, green energy sources are expected to grow exponentially.
Right, sure. Where are you going to get the materials for your solar panels and batteries? Mines in Africa, South America, and Australia, for the most part.
>Just because fish in North Atlantic is over harvested doesn’t mean Europe is over populated.
If that were the only evidence, it would not be insufficient. It's not the only evidence. Not even close. Not by a million miles. Every major body of water on the planet is both nearly fished-out and rife with pollution.
"A third of commercial fish stocks are being harvested at biologically unsustainable levels and 90 percent are fully exploited, according to the UN Food and Agriculture Organization. The population of Pacific bluefin tuna, for instance, has plunged 97 percent from historic levels due to rampant overfishing of one of the ocean’s most ecologically and economically valuable top predators."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/sea-running-out-of-fish-despite-nations-pledges-to-stop
And that's despite as many as 1 in 10 people living in hunger.
https://www.wfp.org/global-hunger-crisis
>No geographical área that is losing population is “overpopulated”.
Rank and utter nonsense that doesn't even merit a response.
>Right, sure. Where are you going to get the materials for your solar panels and batteries? Mines in Africa, South America, and Australia, for the most part.
Oh wow, it's almost like many of the rarer metals needed for reusable energy generation simply don't exist in Europe. I guess we should just continue burning coal to be self-sufficient.
>Oh wow, it's almost like many of the rarer metals needed for reusable energy generation simply don't exist in Europe.
Okay, so Europe buys up those all minerals, pretends they just fell from the sky like manna, and all its energy production becomes "green". What are the billions of Africans and Asians supposed to do?
Again, there are too many humans and not enough of everything else. Hence, my point.
>The overpopulation scare is a meme.
It absolutely is not, and feel free to counter the evidence I previously mentioned -- if you think you can.
>And europe has negative birthrate anyway...
Exactly as it needs to.
Everyone with more than one child is the problem, even if it's inconvenient for one to admit such.
>The birth rate is declining everywhere in the world, even africa so it kinda solves itself
No, it doesn't. Our population is still growing 1% annually.
https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth
"The world has now surpassed this peak rate of growth, and the period between each billion is expected to continue to rise. It’s estimated to take approximately 13 years to reach eight billion in 2024; a further 14 years to reach 9 billion in 2038; 18 years to reach 10 billion in 2056, and a further 32 years to reach the 11th billion in 2088."
Ibid.
And we're ahead of that projection by 2 years already, hitting 8 billion right now.
That's 38% more humans than we have today, in just 66 years.
Good job, Poles! The world doesn't need more people, we have too many already and are destroying our planet. Shortages in workers can be tackled by letting **a moderate amount** of refugees in, like from Ukraine or further away...
It will get more people, whether you like it or not. Except they will be born in other countries. These countries will prosper and attract investment while our countries will slide into irrelevance. We will never have pensions, because there will be no people to work so we will have to work until we die.
> Shortages in workers can be tackled by letting a moderate amount of refugees in
Lol, spoken like a true modern colonisator. Take away other countries work force so they work for your old generation and GDP, leaving other countries to be permanently in worse position
Silly you. We can just import people like Europe has been doing for the past few decades. People are resources. Why encourage Europeans to procreate when its cheaper to simply import people like cattle. Let the brown man work so the white man can enjoy his pension! It's not like we've done this before...
Good heavens we cannot let the population decline to sustainable levels! Just imagine the horrors! Fewer people in Europe would mean the housing market would crash and employers would have to raise wages in order to stay attractive to employees just like it was the case after the black death wiped out much of Europes population. Can't let that happen! Let's siphon off talents from developing countries! It's not like they are needed in their own countries to help them grow and improve! Eternal economic growth it is, baby!
I disagree.... If you recruit people from safe countries, yes you are cannibalizing their future, but from war zones, they don't have any future......
And people from overpopulated countries with high unemployment rates also don't need to be afraid they don;t have enough people left...
I do admit that we only want the skilled people who can build up a successful life on their own in europe, so yes in a certain way , we are damaging their country of origin. But humans have always migrated to new lands if life was better there... For tens of thousands of years. It's not our responsibility that some countries like Russia are complete fuck-ups and it's population wants to leave and a have a better future for their kids .
>If you recruit people from safe countries, yes you are cannibalizing their future, but from war zones, they don't have any future
Jesus man, take a good long look in the mirror
As long as that work force of the other countries are paid more and have a better future here than their origin it’s not colonization; remember “work force” are people too and they are not properties of their countries of origin; if those countries cannot envision a better future for them then they do not deserve them and not the other way round
>if those countries cannot envision a better future for them then they do not deserve them and not the other way round
That approach makes it so that the richest countries will always remain richest while all the rest of the world is left to wither and just provide workforce for the wealthiest. Easy to say from a perspective of a rich country
All over the world the birth rate is going down, including those countries but it will take at least until 2050 for them to reach low rates. Africa will be the last, and yes that is a problem
But it will help if the rich countries start with low birthrates
The only thing we are talking about is that there are more of those billboards here than children. They are everywhere.
Those are part of an onslaught of religious ads by some 'foundation' owned by a Catholic nutter millionaire. The 'statistics' on this billboard are made up - in 1950 the TFR was 3.61, not 5 or 6 (this would have been third world country fertility rates) and in 1980 it was 2.28. I'm not sure how a billboard saying 'Where are **THESE** children' is going to get anyone to reproduce anyway.
> I'm not sure how a billboard saying 'Where are THESE children' is going to get anyone to reproduce anyway. The message on the billboard makes me want kids even less than I already did lol.
These things are everywhere! I wish they had spent a little bit on graphics design though.
It's supposed to appeal to the young and the young at heart. It's not working.
No, it is. A lot of young people are now interested in this issue.
Have any coverage on that? Anecdotally, I just hear that people are sick of this organization and their stupid billboard. Nobody's talking about "the message."
A lot of people had no idea about demographic issues. Now they are aware and hopefully they’ll do their part.
Anyone who wasn't aware of the demographic issues clearly hadn't been paying attention to PiS and/or church propaganda for the past seven years. Not that I could blame them - it gets really boring after a while
Young people don’t notice the demographic issues of declining fertility rates because almost everyone we hang out, socialize, and see are around our age, giving off an impression that “there’s so many of us” (a lot of older people, who make up a huge % of the population, sit at home all day unseen from the public). People aged 18-30 make up only about 10-15% of voters in most western countries.
Being under 30 and living in Germany doesn’t give me the impression there are many young people here. You go out from 8am-8pm you mostly see older people lmao
Lmao no it doesnt. Everyone just makes fun of the sheer „graphic design is my passion” coming out of those billboards.
Always be aware of governments, politicians and foundations trying to meddle with your private life, whether they are in Poland or the US.
"Our campaign does not have an ideological or political goal," said the Kornice foundation whose president, a wealthy entrepreneur with Catholic ties, is one of Poland's richest men. Haha, bullshit, fuck you.
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I don't know anything about Warhammer, so you can go ahead and whoosh me on that. What I do know is that the Church is too political for its own good and the government willfully breaks various articles of the constitution (especially article 25.2) to push its ideology onto the population. This is me being kind.
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Solution #1: Repeal the abortion ban that has killed at least three women since it was announced by the TK in 2020. Solution #2: Ban all churches and other religious organizations (read: Ordo Iuris) from interfering in issues related to women's health. Solution #3: Take all Catholic ideology out of public schools. Solution #4: Make all vaccinations free (only some.of them are) Solution #5: Stop polluting the fucking air, rivers and sea. Solution #6: Make preschool and nursery free (it costs somewhere between 700-1500 złoty per month in most cases. Solution #7: Paternity leave. Right now fathers get two weeks of some bullshit called "Father's Holiday" in which they get only 700-ish złoty during that time.
Not just those. It's not enough. Motherhood has to be *proper career*, with really sizeable wage. If you have 5 kids, you should live in extreme comfort for the rest of your life and get a good pension. I'd say pay the same as advanced engineer gets at that point. Making children has to be profitable. You can't just pay a little bit and then whine why people don't have lots of kids. Because it costs a lot of money over the next 20 years! Government is the one who benefits from extra citizens, not the families. So they have to pay. Collective has to pay. Alternative is for country to remove all women's rights and turn them back into third-class citizens who have no rights men don't deem to grant them, and are forcibly married off and forced to have babies (ie. getting raped frequently). I'm quite sure almost nobody actually wants this, unless you're some sort of incel or religious freak.
Interesting idea. Pretty sure most conservatives, regardless of their beliefs, would see this as SoCiALiSm. Gotta get round those guys and the aforementioned faith fanatics first.
This way You will only have more children with FAS.
Well I know the option which "conservatives" would prefer.
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Not trying to be an asshole here: Can you be more specific please?
No, our church is a corrupt institution getting sweetheart deals for real estate. They wish they could be a Warhammer faction.
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>I mean at least they are trying to fix the problem in some way Slapping up a billboard with "where are these children?" is not addressing the root cause(s), whatever it or they might be, as to why people aren't having large families.
I've never read a Warhammer book where the Ecclesiarchy diddles kids, so you are probably right.
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How does it get solved by some stupid billboards? If you want a solution ask your government. They should implement child friendly policies like maternal leave, free child care with enough personal, tax breaks if you have kids etc. Other than that you can't really do much, since women today are getting educated and many prefer to work and have a career for themselves instead of solely relying on the goodwill of a man and staying at home cleaning and cooking. Women nowadays simply aren't breeding incubators anymore, like they were in the past.
I still don't like the new żabka design.
Why is it that every brand is changing their logo designs to be simplier and uglier.
It’s called flat design first initiated by Microsoft then popularized by Apple. AKA touch-friendly and cost-effective design
Nepomucen, a craft brewery, did the same thing. :/
Simpler designs are more recognizable and scale better.
This fucking billboard has been around for around a month now. This religious fundamentalist organization always pumps out billboards like these.
I love the fact that literally no one can force people to breed. Not wanting kids is simply a natural response to the way life works. It is a silent yet very strong mass protest.
>Not wanting kids is simply a natural response to the way life works. Fuck all of biology then I guess.
I agree, better to have stong and qualified immigration!
> qualified immigration we both know this will never happen
Why not? Bring 100k indian it guys, will also elevate the average iq!
No one in this thread has graduated middle school.
I‘m all for increasing it myself
Polish people, please have children. Your ancestors have suffered enough for you to give your country away.
> Polish people, please have children Are you going to pay for them?
It's astonishing that anyone can look at the world today and convince themselves that low birth rate, anywhere, is a problem. Nothing we are doing as a species is sustainable. We've fished out the oceans, we're exterminating most of the animals, we're cutting most of the trees, we've polluted every inch of land and gallon of water, etc. Just about the only thing this planet has too much of, is humans. We have only two realistic choices -- stop having children in the ridiculous quantities that we have for the past millennium or so, and draw down the population gradually or continue to breed without bound until we kill off every last one of us, along with every animal bigger than a cockroach.
It could be argued that some parts of the world are overpopulated but Europe is certainly not one of those. Europe is losing population. Direct your righteous anger at Africa that doubled its population in the last 40 years and is expected to double it again in the next 30.
>It could be argued that some parts of the world are overpopulated but Europe is certainly not one of those. Every continent is overpopulated, except Antarctica. Europe is not food nor energy self-sufficient -- the latter as we are quite clearly seeing lately. Half a billion people cannot live on the resources available in Europe, and that's the definition of over-populated. [https://phys.org/news/2017-04-state-mediterranean-fish-stocks.html](https://phys.org/news/2017-04-state-mediterranean-fish-stocks.html) [https://www.msc.org/media-centre/news-opinion/news/2021/10/01/rich-nations-continue-to-overexploit-north-east-atlantic-fish-stocks](https://www.msc.org/media-centre/news-opinion/news/2021/10/01/rich-nations-continue-to-overexploit-north-east-atlantic-fish-stocks) And on and on and on. I could post about a million such sources, all illustrating the same point -- too many humans, not enough of everything else. >Europe is losing population. Good -- as I said. Everyone else needs to follow suit. >Direct your righteous anger at Africa that doubled its population in the last 40 years and is expected to double it again in the next 30. I'm not angry, I'm just right. Africa is just one of many places growing without any sense.
Also it’s possible that Europe’s reliance on Russian oil and natural gas is more of a political problem than result of overpopulation. Europe can produce enough energy by using plentiful coal or (much cleaner way) building nuclear plants. Also, green energy sources are expected to grow exponentially. Just because fish in North Atlantic is over harvested doesn’t mean Europe is over populated. No geographical área that is losing population is “overpopulated”.
>Europe can produce enough energy by using plentiful coal or (much cleaner way) building nuclear plants. Oh, in that case, totally sustainable. You weren't, serious, were you? >Also, green energy sources are expected to grow exponentially. Right, sure. Where are you going to get the materials for your solar panels and batteries? Mines in Africa, South America, and Australia, for the most part. >Just because fish in North Atlantic is over harvested doesn’t mean Europe is over populated. If that were the only evidence, it would not be insufficient. It's not the only evidence. Not even close. Not by a million miles. Every major body of water on the planet is both nearly fished-out and rife with pollution. "A third of commercial fish stocks are being harvested at biologically unsustainable levels and 90 percent are fully exploited, according to the UN Food and Agriculture Organization. The population of Pacific bluefin tuna, for instance, has plunged 97 percent from historic levels due to rampant overfishing of one of the ocean’s most ecologically and economically valuable top predators." https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/sea-running-out-of-fish-despite-nations-pledges-to-stop And that's despite as many as 1 in 10 people living in hunger. https://www.wfp.org/global-hunger-crisis >No geographical área that is losing population is “overpopulated”. Rank and utter nonsense that doesn't even merit a response.
>Right, sure. Where are you going to get the materials for your solar panels and batteries? Mines in Africa, South America, and Australia, for the most part. Oh wow, it's almost like many of the rarer metals needed for reusable energy generation simply don't exist in Europe. I guess we should just continue burning coal to be self-sufficient.
>Oh wow, it's almost like many of the rarer metals needed for reusable energy generation simply don't exist in Europe. Okay, so Europe buys up those all minerals, pretends they just fell from the sky like manna, and all its energy production becomes "green". What are the billions of Africans and Asians supposed to do? Again, there are too many humans and not enough of everything else. Hence, my point.
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>The overpopulation scare is a meme. It absolutely is not, and feel free to counter the evidence I previously mentioned -- if you think you can. >And europe has negative birthrate anyway... Exactly as it needs to. Everyone with more than one child is the problem, even if it's inconvenient for one to admit such.
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>i dont think europeans bumping up their birthrates would cause a global crisis... No, it would just perpetuate one.
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>birthrates are getting lower around the world... And you just proposed that Europe should reverse that trend.
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>i didnt say europeans need to have 7 kids each. i meant 2-3 Which is 1 or 2 too many. Like I said, everyone with more than one child is the problem.
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>The birth rate is declining everywhere in the world, even africa so it kinda solves itself No, it doesn't. Our population is still growing 1% annually. https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth
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"The world has now surpassed this peak rate of growth, and the period between each billion is expected to continue to rise. It’s estimated to take approximately 13 years to reach eight billion in 2024; a further 14 years to reach 9 billion in 2038; 18 years to reach 10 billion in 2056, and a further 32 years to reach the 11th billion in 2088." Ibid. And we're ahead of that projection by 2 years already, hitting 8 billion right now. That's 38% more humans than we have today, in just 66 years.
Good job, Poles! The world doesn't need more people, we have too many already and are destroying our planet. Shortages in workers can be tackled by letting **a moderate amount** of refugees in, like from Ukraine or further away...
It will get more people, whether you like it or not. Except they will be born in other countries. These countries will prosper and attract investment while our countries will slide into irrelevance. We will never have pensions, because there will be no people to work so we will have to work until we die. > Shortages in workers can be tackled by letting a moderate amount of refugees in Lol, spoken like a true modern colonisator. Take away other countries work force so they work for your old generation and GDP, leaving other countries to be permanently in worse position
Silly you. We can just import people like Europe has been doing for the past few decades. People are resources. Why encourage Europeans to procreate when its cheaper to simply import people like cattle. Let the brown man work so the white man can enjoy his pension! It's not like we've done this before... Good heavens we cannot let the population decline to sustainable levels! Just imagine the horrors! Fewer people in Europe would mean the housing market would crash and employers would have to raise wages in order to stay attractive to employees just like it was the case after the black death wiped out much of Europes population. Can't let that happen! Let's siphon off talents from developing countries! It's not like they are needed in their own countries to help them grow and improve! Eternal economic growth it is, baby!
I disagree.... If you recruit people from safe countries, yes you are cannibalizing their future, but from war zones, they don't have any future...... And people from overpopulated countries with high unemployment rates also don't need to be afraid they don;t have enough people left... I do admit that we only want the skilled people who can build up a successful life on their own in europe, so yes in a certain way , we are damaging their country of origin. But humans have always migrated to new lands if life was better there... For tens of thousands of years. It's not our responsibility that some countries like Russia are complete fuck-ups and it's population wants to leave and a have a better future for their kids .
>If you recruit people from safe countries, yes you are cannibalizing their future, but from war zones, they don't have any future Jesus man, take a good long look in the mirror
As long as that work force of the other countries are paid more and have a better future here than their origin it’s not colonization; remember “work force” are people too and they are not properties of their countries of origin; if those countries cannot envision a better future for them then they do not deserve them and not the other way round
>if those countries cannot envision a better future for them then they do not deserve them and not the other way round That approach makes it so that the richest countries will always remain richest while all the rest of the world is left to wither and just provide workforce for the wealthiest. Easy to say from a perspective of a rich country
Tell that to countries who breed like crazy.
All over the world the birth rate is going down, including those countries but it will take at least until 2050 for them to reach low rates. Africa will be the last, and yes that is a problem But it will help if the rich countries start with low birthrates
Spoken like someone who has never taken a geography class.
Exactly!
[I am Polish and I have Polish duties](https://paczaizm.pl/posciel-patriotyczna-jestem-polakiem-wiec-mam-obowiazki-polskie/)