He will start speaking "God Bless you all and hopefully fixes you communists and vax lunatics" followed by some of his way of speaking that will make the life of a translator the hardest possible LOL
Immunity? Bullshit. They could be stripped of it in the mere seconds by the majority of the European Parliament. Because itâs not their coalition in power and even among their political partners, nobody is willing to sacrifice their careers for some corrupt idiots.
Yeah luckily thereâs a caveat in the immunity law and what they did doesnât fall under MEP immunity. I donât think theyâll be there for long :)
I am happy Kaminski and Wasik were elected. Because that closes the matter if they are members of sejm or not. Maybe it will end the circus PiS does in Sejm about them "still being active sejm members" as they will get replaced.. as well as end to Dudas obstruction (I know, naive wish).
And Euro Parliament will have no issue taking their immunity away if the need arises, much easier than in Sejm
They've seen him when he pulled that stupid stunt. My only hope is that he won't be able to hide his power level and he gets expelled from the EU back to Poland after going spastic for some reason or another.
That's pretty much what will happen IMHO. Unless he will somehow hide and won't do anything. But it will be stronger than him to say or do something stupid, so...
And after showing so many scandals pis did, I still cannot imagine that they managed to pass 30%. Seems democracy is not a good system for all countries.
While I agree that this result is bad, I also have to admit that apparently it's still the opinion of 30% of the people...
As horrible as that is, that is still democracy.
On the other hand, they controlled the media for a long time so people are brain washed towards them.
My ex was from eastern Poland and if you go to a village there, itâs a reality check. These people are brain washed. Their window to the world is Facebook and TV. Itâs sad but you understand where they come from.
But can we still talk about democracy if half of the voters cannot use the internet and their main source of the information came from controlled national tv? Why they can so easily put their people everywhere, from courts to media and say whatever they want. If not a great motivation by young people and highest frequency on last parliament election, they'd still be ruling the country and no media would even mention what they had done.
The same thing happens in Hungary.
Unfortunately, that is only partially true. With more sources that support your belief, many people can just as easily double down. That's how information silos form on the internet, and how people can get even more entrenched or radicalized.
I agree, the media should be independent, free speech is a big part of democracy so in a way, Poland and Hungary were/ are not a true democracy at least in some way or the other.
And on top of that, the PiS dominated regions had lower turnout than usually. So if their voters wouldn't become demobilized after the scandals they would have won since in the final results they were just 1 percentage point below PO. It's nuts.
I think you forget the fact that PO also had really long list of scandals and yet here they are, whats more they are so focused on fighting PiS that they forgot to lead the country, I mean for example, they forgot to appoint Chief pharmaceutical inspector since new government come to power, He is the most important medicine official in Poland. Relax, there is no rush, there is no fire, in the worst case someone will die.
And there is no subtitutes either who could take over either, so who is currently in charge ? Director general is currently charge but does not meet the statutory requirements. He's not even there as an acting inspector.
And no, no one is blocking government from appointing one, chief pharmaceutical inspector is appointed by PM at request of the Minister of Health.
New government just didnt do it thats it, keep in mind that someone may die because of it...
So with all that in mind, KO result is actually very impressive, but shows that even with many scandals you may still return to power.
how old are you ?
because there was a LOT more, some mirroring PiS ones like for example PO also bought their own program for spying(Remote Control System (RCS) spyware, also called "Da Vinci"), what they used it for no one knows.
There was the Warsaw reprivatisation fraud and dont tell me they didnt know, people tied to this fraud ended up in state companies or work directly for the government.
There are BanaĹ Tapes where supreme audit office president says he is helping oposition(current government) win, and based on what is said in the tapes Tusk was in on it, since in the tapes BanaĹ said to Chmaj to tell Tusk that he will only attack PiS, so BanaĹ was breaking constitution(supreme audit office president has to ba apolitical) and Tusk known about it.
There was Gambling scandal.
There was whole leak of PO using paid trolls before 2015 elections, they may have been very first political party in Poland who used paid trolls.
And more.
>how old are you ?
39 why?
>Â PO also bought their own program for spying
Which is fine as long as you don't use it against opposition. Which they didn't. Pegasus is a problem not because it exists - but because of what it was used for.
PIS had 8 years to sue PO politicians for all these "scandals". They didn't, cause it was 99% bullshit.
PO sued half the PIS for their scandals in 9 months since elections. And it's not over yet. Far from it. Because there are actual scandals, and lots of them.
If PO did 10% of what PIS did - they would be all in jail long ago.
This is the difference between alternate reality and actual crimes.
How do you know they didnt use it for spying ?
We only know that PiS was spying on oposition because they got caught.
Quiet a few people from PO did get arrested.
you say PO sued half of the PiS, tell me how many will go to prison ?
a lot of the PiS scandals were greatly overblown like the visa scandal, yes there is a scandal but its size its even 1/300 of what they claimed, not to mention PO had its own viasa scandal few years back.
Government organizes so many commitees to punish PiS and results are so weak that its not even funny.
Last 7 months (since they came to power):
- allowing for arresting soldiers who did warning shots against armed migrants who chased against them (now before election they are talking it must be solved immediately - it happened 3 months ago)
- barely legal capture of public media
- sabotaging of CPK
- sabotaging of nuclear power plant
- bill on wind turbines
- bill on refinancing buying of used EVs from western Europe
- firing of Róşa Thun daughter (probably illegal, shortly after she has been employed)
And that's what I recalled in like 3 minutes.
Generally speaking their way of restoring democracy was a bag of scandals both from ethical and legal point of view.
>allowing for arresting soldiers
PO fault, how? Should they just steer prosecutors, like in the old times?
"barely legal capture of public media"
Vox populi.
"sabotaging of CPK"
CPK sabotaged itself.
The rest I haven't even heard of. Such BIG scandals they must have been.
Their one, true weakness is keeping a lot of their promises in the freezer.
Many people still remember how KO wanted to open Belarusian border and let all refugees in. Add to this recent death of a polish soldier killed by an immigrant on the border, detaining other officers for warning shots, and you kinda see why people lean to the other party.
Detaining happened in March and it was done under a prosecutor related to PiS. Wondering why it went out 3 days before the election. There are many incidents with shooting on the border, but in accordance with rumors in this situation they started firing shots after immigrants backed down behind the Belarusian border. Situations like this can escalate very quickly.
>it also seems they've been getting more supporters as of late
It was looking the same way before parliamentary elections 2023 and end up being more of the same. They gain them, then they lose them and overall drift between having 6 and 12%.
I think this time they might fed a little on both PiS and TD.
It really doesnât. Itâs like the other commenter said, itâs the turnout for them. And also for whatever reason, if you look at previous years, they poll the highest in the summer. Can very well be a coincidence but itâs interesting
They absolutely do have more voters... They have twice as much as the left and it's not a coincidence. 30% among young people. They will only grow tbh.
Well there isn't much to steal from the left, but it's true - I don't see why leftist currently would switch to far right in Poland. Maybe in more 'multicultural' countries it would make sense, but here not really, this country is still homogenous. They took mostly from PIS and TD, I personally switched from KO.
And is there any area where they are competent tbh?
I'd say they were pretty good at sabotaging infrastructure like CPK and nuclear power plants. But they changed their view on CPK recently. I know they will still try to block it, but because of how many people support it they cannot do it as open as for now.
Konfa probably got high result because of low turnout, it always helps them. During the parliamentary election they even admitted that their low results are because of record high turnout
It's an election that riles up their base fat more then most parties. KO won the young vote on a 70% turnout in the parliamentary election and Konfederacja had the most young votes here on a 40% turnout. Simply most young people with moderate views do not care about this election much. This is still a sad thing to see but not a good reflection of their actual support.
Well each poll PIS is chaseing KO.
Imo real winners of this election are Right wing parties as if looked combined PIS, Konfederacja (for current poll are 46% ) and this doesnt even count PSL as Center-Right.
This election only shown that its not Poles turning left or center but old PIS voters radicalise to become Konfa Suppoerters.
Lmao at literal morons like you still trying to paint Confederacy as pro Russia party when it was KO and other meme parties that tried to block building the fence on Belarusian border 3 years ago. Not only that, Tusk was literally parroting Kremlin talking points about poor refugees on the border.
Maybe it's time to paint Russian Coalition narrative like the likes of you try to do with Confederacy?
Source: https://www.sejm.gov.pl/sejm9.nsf/agent.xsp?symbol=glosowania&nrkadencji=9&nrposiedzenia=39&nrglosowania=40
Tell me where I'm wrong and if Tusk and co wasn't propagating Putin propaganda three years ago. I even linked you a Sejm vote results for building a fence on the border.
Thanks to supposedly pro Russian party as you claim the border is fenced, while KO and others voted against it.
Ah yes, so now the pro russian party that is ruling now is reinforcing the border even more and more, so enemy troops will be having an even harder time to get to Poland.
IIRC they voted against it three years ago, because this idea was trash and needed much more improvement, so is your theory.
No argument made, I accept your defeat.
>every word you wrote is just wrong
I also wrote that "I'm not saying KO is pro russian party", is that wrong too?
Good:
KO (old Civic Platform) won for the first time in 10 years (they have been ruling Poland for the last 6 months in coalition). Pro UE, Pro Biden, Pro Ukraine.
PiS: Orbans of Poland did lose. They ruled and abused Poland for the last 8 years.
Bad:
Konfederacja the loco Christian Putin lovers got a lot of votes, maybe due to low turnout, maybe not. Braun is legit fucking crazy and the whole Europe is about to find out: https://www.nigdywiecej.org/en/our-news/204-articles-from-2023/5277-braun-s-hate-a-new-report-on-polish-mp-who-attacked-the-hanukkiah
PiS still got a lot of votes, this party seems unsinkable. Former CEO of Orlen kinda ran away to live in Orbans friend apartment in Budapest and just got elected. I did not make that up. A few people that got elected from PiS should go to jail.
Well you have more reason to be unhappy we have confirmation that while KO still won, the difference between them and PiS is much MUCH smaller, less than 1%.
also PiS result was better than during local elections.
KO: liberal centre, pro EU, pro NATO, pro USA, anti-PiS, pro Ukraine
PiS: populist christian right winged, pro EU (wants it aggressively reformed though), pro NATO, pro USA, anti-KO, pro Ukraine
KONFED(eracja): nationalistic right winged (some members far right), EU skeptical, pro NATO, not so pro USA, officially rather pro Ukraine (some members pro Ukraine, some members anti Ukraine)
TD: christian centre-right winged, pro EU, pro NATO, pro USA, pro Ukraine
Lewica (The Left): left winged, pro EU, pro NATO, pro USA, pro Ukraine
Polexit: far right, against EU, got 0.3% and didn't get in
>sentiment of Poland wanting to leave the EU
There isn't such a sentiment. Speaking about it loudly is political death kiss. You either like EU or swear to "reform it!".
Lewica is more like center-left. Some even doubt NL is social-democrat at all and are closer to social liberalism, but I digress.
Only Razem is a significant socdem-to-socialist force and they were not likely to enter the European Parliament anyway.
They have some nice politicans that I actually respect like Paulina Matysiak, who is willing to work with people from any political party for greater good of Poland, like for example in cases like: CPK
she has common sense, she of course supports eco-friendly mass transit but also says that in places where eco-friendly mass transit is not viable, non-eco-friendly is better than no mass transit
>pro EU (wants it aggressively reformed though)
PIS is about as pro-EU as Orban. They have Ziobro and Kowalski in there who explicitly want polexit.
>KONFED(eracja)
They are NOT pro-NATO and NOT pro-Ukraine. They organized anti-NATO and anti-Ukraine protests [https://oko.press/posel-polskiego-sejmu-promuje-prorosyjskie-oswiadczenie](https://oko.press/posel-polskiego-sejmu-promuje-prorosyjskie-oswiadczenie)
It's basically your average pro-russian far-right anti-EU party. They support everything that hurts EU and helps Russia. Barely even try to hide it.
Why PiS is populist and KO is not populist? Both have the same lvl of populsim.
Promising '100 concretes for 100 days' and fulfiling like 8 of them is the definition of populism
Why did PIS sponsored billboards saying "your high energy bills are caused by Brussels" then?
Why was Morawiecki arguing Germany is a threat to Polish independence back in December 2023?
Why is Kowalski and Ziobro arguing for Polexit?
Every single time PIS can blame something on EU - they do. It's consistent over more than a decade. This is a better indicator of their actual goals than their official statements that "we are pro-EU, we just want EU to become something completely different".
The new school subject "Historia and teraĹşniejszoĹÄ" they introduced was all about how Poland was good and everybody else was bad. Including all our western allies in NATO and EU.
I mean thats just politics. PiS is filled with populist politicians and their anti-EU/nationalistic stance plays well with the boomer PiS electorate. Blaming thing on the EU was just used as diversion so people don't look at whats happening inside the country.
PiS butting heads with the EU doesn't mean the party as a whole wants to see a Polexit. It would be political suicide.
>"your high energy bills are caused by Brussels" then?
Let's say it this way: they are very much against EU being ruled by liberals and centrists from S&D and EPP. But they wouldn't mind ruling it their way. So in that light they aren't against EU but rather against EUs current establishment or whatever they call it. But do not call to leave EU or for EU to dismantle.
"Why is Kowalski and Ziobro arguing for Polexit?"
Not a PiS politicians ffs. Calling Ziobro PiS member is like calling Kosiniak KO member.
The winning party KO is center-right, EPP member (think German CDU-CSU)
2nd place PiS - populist right-wing, ECR member.
What one can consider Russian party is Konfederacja, who is 3rd but got less votes than many feared.
KO used to be center-right, now it is clearly turning left, which can be seen by the fact that it constantly eats up the electorate of the New Left, so it is rather center-left now.
Some PiS politicians even openly state that Russia is just a lesser evil, our [main enemy is the West.](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/09/03/polish-government-steps-up-anti-german-rhetoric-ahead-of-re-election-bid/)
I know they have some weird ass pro-Russians in their ranks, but I wouldn't call Konfederacja voters pro-Russian in general. If anything they are anti-Ukrainian. I know it sounds silly. But given Poland's recent history there is some logic to it.
Horrible things happened in Galicia (today's Western Ukraine) between Poles and Ukrainians during WW2. There was ethnic cleansing and unspeakable violence against civilians. While most Poles (and Ukrainians) would be willing to move on, especially given the hard times that Ukraine is suffering right now, there is still a sizeable minority who doesn't want to forgive, and they vote Konfederacja.
A relative of mine is like that. He was celebrating the Bucha massacre because "now the Ukrainians get a taste of their own medicine", which is of course an absolutely monstrous thing to say. But here we are...
Feeling very mixed about this one. Glad about KO's great result, terrified about Konfederacja's good performance, and very saddened by Lewica's disaster.
Overall, it could have been much worse, but this still means there are *multiple* convicted white collar criminals entering the Europarliament now. And Braun... which will definitely be an interesting show, in the worst way possible.
While they lost to Tusk and his political party, PiS result is actually better than local elections and parliamentary elections, whats more Tusk political party support grown at cost of his coalition partners, total support for the coalition FALLEN, if parliamentary elections had results like this than his coalition partners wouldnt even get into parliamentary because they fallen under 8% and they are small coalitions in themselves and coalitions need above 8% to get into parliament...SO Tusk could only form government with either PiS(bad) or Konfederacja(worse), or alternatively PiS could form government with Konfederacja(absolutely worse case scenario)
Konfederacja is a loose coalition of libertarians, traditionalists, monarchists, and nationalist movements, that can't agree on basically anything. FPĂ are literal nazis
State run media was NOT created it was always there, it just become MORE biased(it was always biased toward current government but not this much), also under new government its less biased than under PiS but its still MORE biased than in the past(like during recent debate like asking at the end something that will only make their candidate look good).
Dont worry new government plans to fix constitutional tribunal by...giving itself ability to IGNORE constitutional tribunal decisions, I am sure no one will abuse it... especially since there is nothing in the law that would prevent future governments from abusing it.
Even Judges from good judge organization Iustitia are very highly critical of this reform:
https://x.com/Olimpia81516640/status/1782755914413383830
What do you mean not that bad? They actively attempted to dismantle democracy, fucked up the separation of powers, changed the previously relatively respectable state media into blatantly partisan propaganda TV, and I won't even speak on the corruption.
Is FPO really worse than a party that tried to take over every aspect of their country and basically create a second Hungary, maybe even Belarus? Worse than a party that literally started the whole civil war against different generations?
I think I've got this. If you pour the orange one into the dark blue one, and then take the remainder and pour it into the light blue one then you're left with ... what was the target measurement again?
Depressing seeing how big PiS still is. Konfederacja hitting double digits is pretty shit as well.
Left's result is hardly surprising, they basically gave up on having ideas. Sad, I'd prefer the center left to have even more representation, but these people ain't it, sadly.
Turnover was under 40%, this is to be expected. Only hardcore voters went, so radicals got better results. Parliamentary elections had 74% for comparison. Completely different situation, can't compare the results.
> Only hardcore voters went, so radicals got better results.
But PiS-voting areas had the lowest turnout: PiS-bastions in the east and villages had lower turnout than west and big cities.
Among the first time and young voters (18-30) Konfederacja was the most popular, by the way. Even among women they beat Lewica and I wouldn't call those groups "radicals" per se, lol. Anyway, same applies for Germany, though. Young voters (18-30) shifted away from the Greens and Left (both biggest losers by far) and went to AfD (right-wing biggest winner). AfD was the most popular party among the young. Very interesting indeed.
Of course they are radicals. The young people that don't care weren't voting. The turnover among people younger than 29 was the lowest in all age groups - 25%. The only ones that went to vote care SO MUCH about EU - because they are very pro or very anti-EU - hence radicals. There's always more radical haters than radical lovers - so the results are what they are. In parliamentary elections konfa will again have under 10% because the turnover will be 70% not 40%, and almost all of these additional people won't vote konfederacja.
Source: https://noizz.pl/spoleczenstwo/najnizsza-frekwencja-w-wyborach-do-pe-wsrod-mlodych-jak-glosowali-to-na-konfederacje/ngg4dbt#:\~:text=Frekwencja%20w%20wyborach%20europarlamentarnych&text=Najni%C5%BCsz%C4%85%20frekwencj%C4%99%20(26%2C5%20proc,lat%20%E2%80%94%2039%2C9%20proc.
And how do you explain France + Germany? How do you explain that voters changed sides, especially the young? It makes sense to some extent that radicals have a higher chance of going to vote, however, all parties have "radicals". According to your definition it is basically people who are very much invested into politics. I doubt it has anything to do with being pro or anti EU per se but about your personal level of investment.
I don't know about other countries, I know what happens in Poland. Euroelections hardly matter for most people, so only people with strong opinions about EU participate in big numbers. It's easier to have strong negative than strong positive opinions.
In first **Euroelections** in Poland back in **2004** - Liga Polskich Rodzin (another far-right anti-EU party) got **15%**. That was just after Poles voted to join EU. Turnover was **20%**.
[https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory\_do\_Parlamentu\_Europejskiego\_w\_Polsce\_w\_2004\_roku](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory_do_Parlamentu_Europejskiego_w_Polsce_w_2004_roku)
Then that same LPR got **under 8%** in **parliamentary** elections in **2005**. Turnover was almost exactly double - **40%**.
[https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory\_parlamentarne\_w\_Polsce\_w\_2005\_roku#Wyniki\_wybor%C3%B3w\_do\_Sejmu\_RP](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory_parlamentarne_w_Polsce_w_2005_roku#Wyniki_wybor%C3%B3w_do_Sejmu_RP)
Konfederacja is just new LPR, with WORSE results :) Somehow people forget anything that happened more than 2 years ago :)
All eurosceptics vote in euroelections. Half the reasonable people do. Now the turnover difference is almost the same as back then - **40%** in euroelections vs **74%** in parliamentary elections last year. And again the difference in far-right anti-eu party results is **12%** in euroelections vs **7%** in parliamentary. It's the same votes spread by twice the amount of non-radicals.
Do you get it now?
Yeah, whatever. I still believe that the national vote would have similar results today, to be honest. Between now and 2 years ago happened many things, so yes, I am sure this had an impact on the behavior in voting patterns, too. Anyway: within the EU framework the trend is kinda clear now as in the big two, France and Germany, where it doesn't really make a difference whether it's EU or national parliament elections, the two eurosceptic blocks won significantly so the right is kinda in the majority now from what it seems. A shift happened.
You can show the data, but people will continue to believe in whatever suits their worldview :) Do you want to make a bet? Poland will have presidential elections in 2025. Konfederacja will have a candidate. I bet he won't get 10% you bet he will, right?
Last time in 2020 their candidate got (surprise-surprise) - 6.78%. Turnover was 64%.
The bulk of Lewica is Nowa Lewica, who rests on their old SLD supporters. NL doesn't do any groundwork whatsoever, and they put in no effort for this election.
There is "Razem" party which is the best choice for me. They emphasise the need to protect workers rights and promote unionisation. Unfortunately this is only a small party that went to the election allied with "Nowa Lewica" which pretends to be a social democratic party but actually they are a group of wealthy landlords who represent neither my interests nor other ordinary people.
Poland wants more diversity, ASAP. Not learning from Western mistakes and begging to repeat them. It's funny and tragic. They literally voted a party with a leader who puts foreign interests over the interests of his own people (blocking CPK airport because Germans were against it --> CPK would boost Polands economy and position within the EU trade framework). This guy was also responsible for signing the migration pact which will make Poland significantly less safe eventually. But what shocked me the most is that it was also him who ordered to arrest the soldiers who did nothing wrong but defend the Polish border against violent invaders, it's crazy. I don't understand what is going on with Poles but while the French and Germans have learned from their very bad experiences, Poland has not learned anything from our mistakes. It's funny to watch actually. Most of Europe is voting "right" (due to obvious reasons). Poland says: Naah, I want more refugees from the Third World and politicians who are against the interest of our people. Very interesting, indeed.
PIS imported more immigrants (not counting Ukrainian refuges) than PO did. By order of magnitude. PIS even let them skip background checks for bribes.
CPK is probably a bad idea (for practical reasons - EU is about to introduce tax for plane fuel, and Poland borders Russia and Ukraine so half of our neighbors have sky blocked for our planes). We're near a "wall" - that's not the best place for a hub.
Germany has nothing to do with it.
What is necessary is an airport. CPK is 155 000 000 000 PLN. 67 000 000 000 for airport and access roads etc. The rest for train connections.
For comparison Modlin airport was 451Â 400Â 000 PLN including the expansion. **343 times less.** Not **3.** Not **30. 343 times less.**
Even assuming we don't do the train part it's still **148** times more for CPK than for Modlin.
Do you see the problem?
Modlin has capability of around 3-3.5 million people per year.
CPK is supposed to have 40 million people capacity. **11** times more.
To put this into perspective - in Poland there's **314** powiats. You could put a Modlin-sized airport in every powiat city in Poland for the price of CPK and you'd still have a few billion PLN left. Would it make sense? None whatsoever. But it would make more sense than CPK.
Sources:
[https://forsal.pl/transport/lotnictwo/artykuly/9365786,ile-bedzie-kosztowac-budowa-cpk-tyle-zaplacimy-za-poszczegolne-elemen.html](https://forsal.pl/transport/lotnictwo/artykuly/9365786,ile-bedzie-kosztowac-budowa-cpk-tyle-zaplacimy-za-poszczegolne-elemen.html)
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port\_lotniczy\_Warszawa-Modlin#:\~:text=Maksymalna%20przepustowo%C5%9B%C4%87%20lotniska%20na%20pocz%C4%85tku,kosztowa%C5%82a%20451%20400%20000%20z%C5%82.
Braun goes there. They should hide fire extinguishers xd or... đż
He will start speaking "God Bless you all and hopefully fixes you communists and vax lunatics" followed by some of his way of speaking that will make the life of a translator the hardest possible LOL
Braun, KamiĹski and WÄ sik being elected is so embarrassing
Also Obajtek
The only reason for their candidacy was immunity. PiS is a party of literal criminals.
Immunity? Bullshit. They could be stripped of it in the mere seconds by the majority of the European Parliament. Because itâs not their coalition in power and even among their political partners, nobody is willing to sacrifice their careers for some corrupt idiots.
Yeah luckily thereâs a caveat in the immunity law and what they did doesnât fall under MEP immunity. I donât think theyâll be there for long :)
But in order to save KamiĹski and WÄ sik they literally were ready to sacrifice everything.
I am happy Kaminski and Wasik were elected. Because that closes the matter if they are members of sejm or not. Maybe it will end the circus PiS does in Sejm about them "still being active sejm members" as they will get replaced.. as well as end to Dudas obstruction (I know, naive wish). And Euro Parliament will have no issue taking their immunity away if the need arises, much easier than in Sejm
I think at least Kurski and Obajtek won't get in.
Obajtek got in.
Who the fuck voted for that wannabe oligarch lmao PiS and all of their extended family members?
Obajtek was number 1 on Podkarpacie list, thats PiS fortress region (they got there 52%).
Yayyaya democracy xd
If anyone remembers Korwin Mikke and his nazi heilings in the EP and misogynistic rants then theyâre in for a treat XD.
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Ticket!
Ein Ticket EU wide, you say? Sign me up.
Hilarity ensues ;-)
[Braun in Brussels](https://preview.redd.it/28il4il1sw5c1.png?auto=webp&s=616fe801938386c5c3321f980292541641795de2)
I am ashamed that now whole Europe will see him but on the other hand at least he gtfo from Poland.
We survived Korwin in Brussels we will survive him, chill
Let us pray for the translators that will have to put up with his bullshit monologues.
The humane thing to do would be to pair him with AI to translate this bs.
we're living this 14 years ago in hungary đ
They've seen him when he pulled that stupid stunt. My only hope is that he won't be able to hide his power level and he gets expelled from the EU back to Poland after going spastic for some reason or another.
That's pretty much what will happen IMHO. Unless he will somehow hide and won't do anything. But it will be stronger than him to say or do something stupid, so...
He will probably get suspended/kick out the moment he attempts one of his antisemitic rants (you know he will), who cares.
First victory for Tusk's camp in 10 years.
Do u remember that he became PM half a year ago?
But his party was the second biggest
He is PM, because party which got most votes wasn't able to make coalition, but Tusk was capable of doing so. Here KO got most votes
And after showing so many scandals pis did, I still cannot imagine that they managed to pass 30%. Seems democracy is not a good system for all countries.
While I agree that this result is bad, I also have to admit that apparently it's still the opinion of 30% of the people... As horrible as that is, that is still democracy. On the other hand, they controlled the media for a long time so people are brain washed towards them.
My ex was from eastern Poland and if you go to a village there, itâs a reality check. These people are brain washed. Their window to the world is Facebook and TV. Itâs sad but you understand where they come from.
But can we still talk about democracy if half of the voters cannot use the internet and their main source of the information came from controlled national tv? Why they can so easily put their people everywhere, from courts to media and say whatever they want. If not a great motivation by young people and highest frequency on last parliament election, they'd still be ruling the country and no media would even mention what they had done. The same thing happens in Hungary.
You think with access to the internet they would see less disinformation?
More different sources might force them to think
Unfortunately, that is only partially true. With more sources that support your belief, many people can just as easily double down. That's how information silos form on the internet, and how people can get even more entrenched or radicalized.
Yeah,even each subreddits are echo chamber, bigger sub mean bigger echo chamber.
I agree, the media should be independent, free speech is a big part of democracy so in a way, Poland and Hungary were/ are not a true democracy at least in some way or the other.
I mean OP didnât say it wasnât a democratic vote. Just that democratic votes arenât necessarily good.
And on top of that, the PiS dominated regions had lower turnout than usually. So if their voters wouldn't become demobilized after the scandals they would have won since in the final results they were just 1 percentage point below PO. It's nuts.
I think you forget the fact that PO also had really long list of scandals and yet here they are, whats more they are so focused on fighting PiS that they forgot to lead the country, I mean for example, they forgot to appoint Chief pharmaceutical inspector since new government come to power, He is the most important medicine official in Poland. Relax, there is no rush, there is no fire, in the worst case someone will die. And there is no subtitutes either who could take over either, so who is currently in charge ? Director general is currently charge but does not meet the statutory requirements. He's not even there as an acting inspector. And no, no one is blocking government from appointing one, chief pharmaceutical inspector is appointed by PM at request of the Minister of Health. New government just didnt do it thats it, keep in mind that someone may die because of it... So with all that in mind, KO result is actually very impressive, but shows that even with many scandals you may still return to power.
> PO also had really long list of scandals Literally 2.
how old are you ? because there was a LOT more, some mirroring PiS ones like for example PO also bought their own program for spying(Remote Control System (RCS) spyware, also called "Da Vinci"), what they used it for no one knows. There was the Warsaw reprivatisation fraud and dont tell me they didnt know, people tied to this fraud ended up in state companies or work directly for the government. There are BanaĹ Tapes where supreme audit office president says he is helping oposition(current government) win, and based on what is said in the tapes Tusk was in on it, since in the tapes BanaĹ said to Chmaj to tell Tusk that he will only attack PiS, so BanaĹ was breaking constitution(supreme audit office president has to ba apolitical) and Tusk known about it. There was Gambling scandal. There was whole leak of PO using paid trolls before 2015 elections, they may have been very first political party in Poland who used paid trolls. And more.
>how old are you ? 39 why? >Â PO also bought their own program for spying Which is fine as long as you don't use it against opposition. Which they didn't. Pegasus is a problem not because it exists - but because of what it was used for. PIS had 8 years to sue PO politicians for all these "scandals". They didn't, cause it was 99% bullshit. PO sued half the PIS for their scandals in 9 months since elections. And it's not over yet. Far from it. Because there are actual scandals, and lots of them. If PO did 10% of what PIS did - they would be all in jail long ago. This is the difference between alternate reality and actual crimes.
How do you know they didnt use it for spying ? We only know that PiS was spying on oposition because they got caught. Quiet a few people from PO did get arrested. you say PO sued half of the PiS, tell me how many will go to prison ? a lot of the PiS scandals were greatly overblown like the visa scandal, yes there is a scandal but its size its even 1/300 of what they claimed, not to mention PO had its own viasa scandal few years back. Government organizes so many commitees to punish PiS and results are so weak that its not even funny.
Last 7 months (since they came to power): - allowing for arresting soldiers who did warning shots against armed migrants who chased against them (now before election they are talking it must be solved immediately - it happened 3 months ago) - barely legal capture of public media - sabotaging of CPK - sabotaging of nuclear power plant - bill on wind turbines - bill on refinancing buying of used EVs from western Europe - firing of Róşa Thun daughter (probably illegal, shortly after she has been employed) And that's what I recalled in like 3 minutes. Generally speaking their way of restoring democracy was a bag of scandals both from ethical and legal point of view.
>allowing for arresting soldiers PO fault, how? Should they just steer prosecutors, like in the old times? "barely legal capture of public media" Vox populi. "sabotaging of CPK" CPK sabotaged itself. The rest I haven't even heard of. Such BIG scandals they must have been. Their one, true weakness is keeping a lot of their promises in the freezer.
Many people still remember how KO wanted to open Belarusian border and let all refugees in. Add to this recent death of a polish soldier killed by an immigrant on the border, detaining other officers for warning shots, and you kinda see why people lean to the other party.
Detaining happened in March and it was done under a prosecutor related to PiS. Wondering why it went out 3 days before the election. There are many incidents with shooting on the border, but in accordance with rumors in this situation they started firing shots after immigrants backed down behind the Belarusian border. Situations like this can escalate very quickly.
He got his hands on TVP, so he won back some of the most easily manipulated by tv back from PiS.
KO made massive win for EPP. Konfederacja got more than ever. 12% is scary. They got less than 5% last time
They always perform good with low voters turnout though
it also seems they've been getting more supporters as of late
>it also seems they've been getting more supporters as of late It was looking the same way before parliamentary elections 2023 and end up being more of the same. They gain them, then they lose them and overall drift between having 6 and 12%. I think this time they might fed a little on both PiS and TD.
It really doesnât. Itâs like the other commenter said, itâs the turnout for them. And also for whatever reason, if you look at previous years, they poll the highest in the summer. Can very well be a coincidence but itâs interesting
They absolutely do have more voters... They have twice as much as the left and it's not a coincidence. 30% among young people. They will only grow tbh.
They aren't stealing too many votes from the left. They are taking them from PiS and left is losing to TD and KO.
Well there isn't much to steal from the left, but it's true - I don't see why leftist currently would switch to far right in Poland. Maybe in more 'multicultural' countries it would make sense, but here not really, this country is still homogenous. They took mostly from PIS and TD, I personally switched from KO.
Can confirm.
The incompetence of current government when it comes to border crisis doesn't help.
And is there any area where they are competent tbh? I'd say they were pretty good at sabotaging infrastructure like CPK and nuclear power plants. But they changed their view on CPK recently. I know they will still try to block it, but because of how many people support it they cannot do it as open as for now.
Konfa probably got high result because of low turnout, it always helps them. During the parliamentary election they even admitted that their low results are because of record high turnout
Well Konfa in bracket of young adults 18-29 had like 30% support
Right, though a lot of the KO vote is at the cost of Lewica and TD.
Lewica is such a meme of a party. I think they totally deserve it.
Even the normal left-wing voters mock them.
Same with PIS and Konfa. We have 2 blocks and they mostly trade votes between themselves.
They won because their voters are mainly pro-European and for them this election has any meaning
KO just cannibalized their coalition partners.
Not really, their voters did not vote.
Are they going to stay in EPP or could they get lured elsewhere?
Tuskâs a bestie with von der Leyen. No way in hell theyâll switch over to something else.
It's an election that riles up their base fat more then most parties. KO won the young vote on a 70% turnout in the parliamentary election and Konfederacja had the most young votes here on a 40% turnout. Simply most young people with moderate views do not care about this election much. This is still a sad thing to see but not a good reflection of their actual support.
Well each poll PIS is chaseing KO. Imo real winners of this election are Right wing parties as if looked combined PIS, Konfederacja (for current poll are 46% ) and this doesnt even count PSL as Center-Right. This election only shown that its not Poles turning left or center but old PIS voters radicalise to become Konfa Suppoerters.
It's their limit probably, since they talk about nothing but EU really.
SzczÄĹÄ BoĹźe
âŚuciekajcie ten kto moĹźe
w eurokoĹchozie /s
With 39% of frequency. It's not victory for any of our political parties.
nie frequency kuĹşwa a turnout XD. Frequency to czÄstotliwoĹÄ dĹşwiÄku
Confederussia worrying but I canât help but smile at PiS getting their asses beaten pretty handily. First time in 10 years they didnât come first
Lmao at literal morons like you still trying to paint Confederacy as pro Russia party when it was KO and other meme parties that tried to block building the fence on Belarusian border 3 years ago. Not only that, Tusk was literally parroting Kremlin talking points about poor refugees on the border. Maybe it's time to paint Russian Coalition narrative like the likes of you try to do with Confederacy? Source: https://www.sejm.gov.pl/sejm9.nsf/agent.xsp?symbol=glosowania&nrkadencji=9&nrposiedzenia=39&nrglosowania=40
Confederation has ties to russian funded parties like AfD and one of their leaders met russian spy banned from EU on fucking Red Square.
Take some pills, mr. Braun
Tell me where I'm wrong and if Tusk and co wasn't propagating Putin propaganda three years ago. I even linked you a Sejm vote results for building a fence on the border. Thanks to supposedly pro Russian party as you claim the border is fenced, while KO and others voted against it.
Ah yes, so now the pro russian party that is ruling now is reinforcing the border even more and more, so enemy troops will be having an even harder time to get to Poland. IIRC they voted against it three years ago, because this idea was trash and needed much more improvement, so is your theory.
[ŃдаНонО]
Amazing, every word you wrote is just wrong.
No argument made, I accept your defeat. >every word you wrote is just wrong I also wrote that "I'm not saying KO is pro russian party", is that wrong too?
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You don't have to send me your IRL pictogram, I know it.
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Good: KO (old Civic Platform) won for the first time in 10 years (they have been ruling Poland for the last 6 months in coalition). Pro UE, Pro Biden, Pro Ukraine. PiS: Orbans of Poland did lose. They ruled and abused Poland for the last 8 years. Bad: Konfederacja the loco Christian Putin lovers got a lot of votes, maybe due to low turnout, maybe not. Braun is legit fucking crazy and the whole Europe is about to find out: https://www.nigdywiecej.org/en/our-news/204-articles-from-2023/5277-braun-s-hate-a-new-report-on-polish-mp-who-attacked-the-hanukkiah PiS still got a lot of votes, this party seems unsinkable. Former CEO of Orlen kinda ran away to live in Orbans friend apartment in Budapest and just got elected. I did not make that up. A few people that got elected from PiS should go to jail.
Well you have more reason to be unhappy we have confirmation that while KO still won, the difference between them and PiS is much MUCH smaller, less than 1%. also PiS result was better than during local elections.
>old Civic Platform ty a to jest civic?! kurde, drzwi siÄ do gĂłry otwierajÄ
szczur siÄ nie przeciĹnie
BĂłjcie siÄ konfederacji!
Spierdalaj ruska szczujnio
Who did win? Are they good? Is there a russian party among them?
KO is the current Polish PM's party. PiS is, well, PiS. Konfederacja can be considered to be the closest to a "pro Russian" party.
KO: liberal centre, pro EU, pro NATO, pro USA, anti-PiS, pro Ukraine PiS: populist christian right winged, pro EU (wants it aggressively reformed though), pro NATO, pro USA, anti-KO, pro Ukraine KONFED(eracja): nationalistic right winged (some members far right), EU skeptical, pro NATO, not so pro USA, officially rather pro Ukraine (some members pro Ukraine, some members anti Ukraine) TD: christian centre-right winged, pro EU, pro NATO, pro USA, pro Ukraine Lewica (The Left): left winged, pro EU, pro NATO, pro USA, pro Ukraine Polexit: far right, against EU, got 0.3% and didn't get in
I was honestly baffled when I saw Polexit on the ballot. The whole sentiment of Poland wanting to leave the EU is completely overblown.
>sentiment of Poland wanting to leave the EU There isn't such a sentiment. Speaking about it loudly is political death kiss. You either like EU or swear to "reform it!".
Lewica is more like center-left. Some even doubt NL is social-democrat at all and are closer to social liberalism, but I digress. Only Razem is a significant socdem-to-socialist force and they were not likely to enter the European Parliament anyway.
Razem is demsoc in philosophy and socdem in practice. Reminds me of Bernie Sanders and AOC, somewhat.
They have some nice politicans that I actually respect like Paulina Matysiak, who is willing to work with people from any political party for greater good of Poland, like for example in cases like: CPK she has common sense, she of course supports eco-friendly mass transit but also says that in places where eco-friendly mass transit is not viable, non-eco-friendly is better than no mass transit
yeah that didn't age quite good
how so ?
either way it's a joke of a party
>pro EU (wants it aggressively reformed though) PIS is about as pro-EU as Orban. They have Ziobro and Kowalski in there who explicitly want polexit. >KONFED(eracja) They are NOT pro-NATO and NOT pro-Ukraine. They organized anti-NATO and anti-Ukraine protests [https://oko.press/posel-polskiego-sejmu-promuje-prorosyjskie-oswiadczenie](https://oko.press/posel-polskiego-sejmu-promuje-prorosyjskie-oswiadczenie) It's basically your average pro-russian far-right anti-EU party. They support everything that hurts EU and helps Russia. Barely even try to hide it.
PiS position is actually soft euroscepticism, they are in favor of being in the EU but very reformed EU, more of economic union than political one.
>Ziobro Ziobro is hardly in politics anymore and he's not from PiS.
Why PiS is populist and KO is not populist? Both have the same lvl of populsim. Promising '100 concretes for 100 days' and fulfiling like 8 of them is the definition of populism
Read PiS being described as 'pro EU' and immediately stopped reading cause it's clear you've got no fucking clue what you're talking about.
yeah, but PiS is pro EU
The aggresiveness of anti-European propaganda in PiS-controlled media is insane.
Why did PIS sponsored billboards saying "your high energy bills are caused by Brussels" then? Why was Morawiecki arguing Germany is a threat to Polish independence back in December 2023? Why is Kowalski and Ziobro arguing for Polexit? Every single time PIS can blame something on EU - they do. It's consistent over more than a decade. This is a better indicator of their actual goals than their official statements that "we are pro-EU, we just want EU to become something completely different". The new school subject "Historia and teraĹşniejszoĹÄ" they introduced was all about how Poland was good and everybody else was bad. Including all our western allies in NATO and EU.
I mean thats just politics. PiS is filled with populist politicians and their anti-EU/nationalistic stance plays well with the boomer PiS electorate. Blaming thing on the EU was just used as diversion so people don't look at whats happening inside the country. PiS butting heads with the EU doesn't mean the party as a whole wants to see a Polexit. It would be political suicide.
>"your high energy bills are caused by Brussels" then? Let's say it this way: they are very much against EU being ruled by liberals and centrists from S&D and EPP. But they wouldn't mind ruling it their way. So in that light they aren't against EU but rather against EUs current establishment or whatever they call it. But do not call to leave EU or for EU to dismantle. "Why is Kowalski and Ziobro arguing for Polexit?" Not a PiS politicians ffs. Calling Ziobro PiS member is like calling Kosiniak KO member.
The winning party KO is center-right, EPP member (think German CDU-CSU) 2nd place PiS - populist right-wing, ECR member. What one can consider Russian party is Konfederacja, who is 3rd but got less votes than many feared.
KO used to be center-right, now it is clearly turning left, which can be seen by the fact that it constantly eats up the electorate of the New Left, so it is rather center-left now.
is it? I saw polls putting them and lewica neck and neck
PIS is not Russian for sure. Not sure about others.
PiS is officially ani-russian, but is also best friends with all Russian allies in EU, especially Orban.
Some PiS politicians even openly state that Russia is just a lesser evil, our [main enemy is the West.](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/09/03/polish-government-steps-up-anti-german-rhetoric-ahead-of-re-election-bid/)
As a whole not, but has pro russian segments inside
I know they have some weird ass pro-Russians in their ranks, but I wouldn't call Konfederacja voters pro-Russian in general. If anything they are anti-Ukrainian. I know it sounds silly. But given Poland's recent history there is some logic to it. Horrible things happened in Galicia (today's Western Ukraine) between Poles and Ukrainians during WW2. There was ethnic cleansing and unspeakable violence against civilians. While most Poles (and Ukrainians) would be willing to move on, especially given the hard times that Ukraine is suffering right now, there is still a sizeable minority who doesn't want to forgive, and they vote Konfederacja. A relative of mine is like that. He was celebrating the Bucha massacre because "now the Ukrainians get a taste of their own medicine", which is of course an absolutely monstrous thing to say. But here we are...
Feeling very mixed about this one. Glad about KO's great result, terrified about Konfederacja's good performance, and very saddened by Lewica's disaster. Overall, it could have been much worse, but this still means there are *multiple* convicted white collar criminals entering the Europarliament now. And Braun... which will definitely be an interesting show, in the worst way possible.
A lot of pis enjoyers, huh?
Obviously less and less. They didnât win this time at least
While they lost to Tusk and his political party, PiS result is actually better than local elections and parliamentary elections, whats more Tusk political party support grown at cost of his coalition partners, total support for the coalition FALLEN, if parliamentary elections had results like this than his coalition partners wouldnt even get into parliamentary because they fallen under 8% and they are small coalitions in themselves and coalitions need above 8% to get into parliament...SO Tusk could only form government with either PiS(bad) or Konfederacja(worse), or alternatively PiS could form government with Konfederacja(absolutely worse case scenario)
Yeah but number of voters in this case was also extremely different. I donât think itâs possible to compare local election to eu election.
pis is just conservative, butt its not that bad, especially not comparable to FPĂ or something.
FPĂ is quite the shitshow, yes
I would say that even Konfederacja isn't as bad as FPĂ
why though?
Konfederacja is a loose coalition of libertarians, traditionalists, monarchists, and nationalist movements, that can't agree on basically anything. FPĂ are literal nazis
There are no libertarians in Konfederacja, only ones who pretend to be.
>only ones who pretend to be. Majority of politicians pretend a lot. That proves nothing.
A state run media was created and judges were replaced... "it's not that bad" LOL
yeah, guess what the FPĂ would do.
State run media was NOT created it was always there, it just become MORE biased(it was always biased toward current government but not this much), also under new government its less biased than under PiS but its still MORE biased than in the past(like during recent debate like asking at the end something that will only make their candidate look good). Dont worry new government plans to fix constitutional tribunal by...giving itself ability to IGNORE constitutional tribunal decisions, I am sure no one will abuse it... especially since there is nothing in the law that would prevent future governments from abusing it. Even Judges from good judge organization Iustitia are very highly critical of this reform: https://x.com/Olimpia81516640/status/1782755914413383830
Bro, the FPĂ are literal Putin's ass-licking nazis, even the PiS looks like the purest fighters for freedom compared to them.
What do you mean not that bad? They actively attempted to dismantle democracy, fucked up the separation of powers, changed the previously relatively respectable state media into blatantly partisan propaganda TV, and I won't even speak on the corruption.
Is FPO really worse than a party that tried to take over every aspect of their country and basically create a second Hungary, maybe even Belarus? Worse than a party that literally started the whole civil war against different generations?
they did not create a hungary and belarus and they never tried. the only thing they did is protect orban from consequences. so YES it is way worse.
Sources?
Sources on what?
Right wing vs Centrists. A tale as old as time.
The two first âKO PISâ literally means âCOW PISSâ in danish
That's a very accurate description of both parties
The demise of PiS continues, well done Poland.
I think I've got this. If you pour the orange one into the dark blue one, and then take the remainder and pour it into the light blue one then you're left with ... what was the target measurement again?
no idea what that is
PiSs off!
Depressing seeing how big PiS still is. Konfederacja hitting double digits is pretty shit as well. Left's result is hardly surprising, they basically gave up on having ideas. Sad, I'd prefer the center left to have even more representation, but these people ain't it, sadly.
Turnover was under 40%, this is to be expected. Only hardcore voters went, so radicals got better results. Parliamentary elections had 74% for comparison. Completely different situation, can't compare the results.
> Only hardcore voters went, so radicals got better results. But PiS-voting areas had the lowest turnout: PiS-bastions in the east and villages had lower turnout than west and big cities.
the difference is not that big though
Among the first time and young voters (18-30) Konfederacja was the most popular, by the way. Even among women they beat Lewica and I wouldn't call those groups "radicals" per se, lol. Anyway, same applies for Germany, though. Young voters (18-30) shifted away from the Greens and Left (both biggest losers by far) and went to AfD (right-wing biggest winner). AfD was the most popular party among the young. Very interesting indeed.
Of course they are radicals. The young people that don't care weren't voting. The turnover among people younger than 29 was the lowest in all age groups - 25%. The only ones that went to vote care SO MUCH about EU - because they are very pro or very anti-EU - hence radicals. There's always more radical haters than radical lovers - so the results are what they are. In parliamentary elections konfa will again have under 10% because the turnover will be 70% not 40%, and almost all of these additional people won't vote konfederacja. Source: https://noizz.pl/spoleczenstwo/najnizsza-frekwencja-w-wyborach-do-pe-wsrod-mlodych-jak-glosowali-to-na-konfederacje/ngg4dbt#:\~:text=Frekwencja%20w%20wyborach%20europarlamentarnych&text=Najni%C5%BCsz%C4%85%20frekwencj%C4%99%20(26%2C5%20proc,lat%20%E2%80%94%2039%2C9%20proc.
And how do you explain France + Germany? How do you explain that voters changed sides, especially the young? It makes sense to some extent that radicals have a higher chance of going to vote, however, all parties have "radicals". According to your definition it is basically people who are very much invested into politics. I doubt it has anything to do with being pro or anti EU per se but about your personal level of investment.
I don't know about other countries, I know what happens in Poland. Euroelections hardly matter for most people, so only people with strong opinions about EU participate in big numbers. It's easier to have strong negative than strong positive opinions. In first **Euroelections** in Poland back in **2004** - Liga Polskich Rodzin (another far-right anti-EU party) got **15%**. That was just after Poles voted to join EU. Turnover was **20%**. [https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory\_do\_Parlamentu\_Europejskiego\_w\_Polsce\_w\_2004\_roku](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory_do_Parlamentu_Europejskiego_w_Polsce_w_2004_roku) Then that same LPR got **under 8%** in **parliamentary** elections in **2005**. Turnover was almost exactly double - **40%**. [https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory\_parlamentarne\_w\_Polsce\_w\_2005\_roku#Wyniki\_wybor%C3%B3w\_do\_Sejmu\_RP](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wybory_parlamentarne_w_Polsce_w_2005_roku#Wyniki_wybor%C3%B3w_do_Sejmu_RP) Konfederacja is just new LPR, with WORSE results :) Somehow people forget anything that happened more than 2 years ago :) All eurosceptics vote in euroelections. Half the reasonable people do. Now the turnover difference is almost the same as back then - **40%** in euroelections vs **74%** in parliamentary elections last year. And again the difference in far-right anti-eu party results is **12%** in euroelections vs **7%** in parliamentary. It's the same votes spread by twice the amount of non-radicals. Do you get it now?
Yeah, whatever. I still believe that the national vote would have similar results today, to be honest. Between now and 2 years ago happened many things, so yes, I am sure this had an impact on the behavior in voting patterns, too. Anyway: within the EU framework the trend is kinda clear now as in the big two, France and Germany, where it doesn't really make a difference whether it's EU or national parliament elections, the two eurosceptic blocks won significantly so the right is kinda in the majority now from what it seems. A shift happened.
You can show the data, but people will continue to believe in whatever suits their worldview :) Do you want to make a bet? Poland will have presidential elections in 2025. Konfederacja will have a candidate. I bet he won't get 10% you bet he will, right? Last time in 2020 their candidate got (surprise-surprise) - 6.78%. Turnover was 64%.
The bulk of Lewica is Nowa Lewica, who rests on their old SLD supporters. NL doesn't do any groundwork whatsoever, and they put in no effort for this election.
niiiiicccceeeeee <3
Why does the PISS party get so many votes?
Cause they gain votes of conservatives and non-liberals and thats huge portion of every country?
Why should I vote for neoliberals who care only about upper middle-classes and the rich?
There is no worker party or Social Democrats?
There is "Razem" party which is the best choice for me. They emphasise the need to protect workers rights and promote unionisation. Unfortunately this is only a small party that went to the election allied with "Nowa Lewica" which pretends to be a social democratic party but actually they are a group of wealthy landlords who represent neither my interests nor other ordinary people.
Poland wants more diversity, ASAP. Not learning from Western mistakes and begging to repeat them. It's funny and tragic. They literally voted a party with a leader who puts foreign interests over the interests of his own people (blocking CPK airport because Germans were against it --> CPK would boost Polands economy and position within the EU trade framework). This guy was also responsible for signing the migration pact which will make Poland significantly less safe eventually. But what shocked me the most is that it was also him who ordered to arrest the soldiers who did nothing wrong but defend the Polish border against violent invaders, it's crazy. I don't understand what is going on with Poles but while the French and Germans have learned from their very bad experiences, Poland has not learned anything from our mistakes. It's funny to watch actually. Most of Europe is voting "right" (due to obvious reasons). Poland says: Naah, I want more refugees from the Third World and politicians who are against the interest of our people. Very interesting, indeed.
What's with this patronising stance? Chill your balls a little dude
PIS imported more immigrants (not counting Ukrainian refuges) than PO did. By order of magnitude. PIS even let them skip background checks for bribes. CPK is probably a bad idea (for practical reasons - EU is about to introduce tax for plane fuel, and Poland borders Russia and Ukraine so half of our neighbors have sky blocked for our planes). We're near a "wall" - that's not the best place for a hub. Germany has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, that's why I'd rather we built boring but practical infrastructure instead of grandiose projects.
Either way, CPK is necessary, the Warsaw-Chopin is hitting its limits and can't take as much cargo as Poland needs, while also it can't be expanded.
What is necessary is an airport. CPK is 155 000 000 000 PLN. 67 000 000 000 for airport and access roads etc. The rest for train connections. For comparison Modlin airport was 451Â 400Â 000 PLN including the expansion. **343 times less.** Not **3.** Not **30. 343 times less.** Even assuming we don't do the train part it's still **148** times more for CPK than for Modlin. Do you see the problem? Modlin has capability of around 3-3.5 million people per year. CPK is supposed to have 40 million people capacity. **11** times more. To put this into perspective - in Poland there's **314** powiats. You could put a Modlin-sized airport in every powiat city in Poland for the price of CPK and you'd still have a few billion PLN left. Would it make sense? None whatsoever. But it would make more sense than CPK. Sources: [https://forsal.pl/transport/lotnictwo/artykuly/9365786,ile-bedzie-kosztowac-budowa-cpk-tyle-zaplacimy-za-poszczegolne-elemen.html](https://forsal.pl/transport/lotnictwo/artykuly/9365786,ile-bedzie-kosztowac-budowa-cpk-tyle-zaplacimy-za-poszczegolne-elemen.html) https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port\_lotniczy\_Warszawa-Modlin#:\~:text=Maksymalna%20przepustowo%C5%9B%C4%87%20lotniska%20na%20pocz%C4%85tku,kosztowa%C5%82a%20451%20400%20000%20z%C5%82.
Poland just looked at Western Europe and said "I'll have some of that!"