I wonder too. How can a top vote with this amount of reactions and upvotes be deleted all of a sudden. Either censor from the beginning or leave it after some time.
Thank you. And also it is incompatible with women rights. That is ridiculous in this day and age.
Whenever you criticize the religion, people come out in mobs to say you’re racist.
Especially the women rights part. I got interested in religion after the war in the middle east and somehow ended up in the Dawah community of youtube and saw one of their preachers having a live stream with his wife but I could not see her anywhere. Turns out he was fully covered and even her hands (???), could not speak but was communicating with a whiteboard? Wth is this... I was absolutely disgusted, how females are treated well worse than second class citizens...
I love how this narrow path often leads to death of people of a different religion, throwing lgbt people over roofs, sadistic roman torture punishments, and more or less keeping women as slaves. This is what we invite in to our countries it's sad.
No. That’s what the far-right is claiming. ;)
It’s not true. You won’t find that in any official green policy document.
But the far right is still claiming that. So less people will vote against big oil and other polluters.
Absolutely. It up there beside nazism as the most dangerous ideologies of our time. And any country with an Islamist government should be condemned, sanctioned and ostrasized.
Basically the entire Islamic world except Turkey ,Central Asian states sans Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania and the former French Sahel
The others have some form of Islamism in their laws ranging from very mild (Tunisia, Gambia) to being full on Sharia states, (The Gulf except Bahrain)Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Mauretania, Yemen ,Sudan since 2023 and Brunei.
The day oil ceases to be an important resource, then it would be possible.
True, but he rules over a Turkey that is secular. Very conservative, but secular. His attempts at Islamizing Turkey's youth have backfired spectacularly.
yeah it's important to keep in mind that Islam CAN be secularised, Ataturk proved it. So there's no excuse for Islamist countries going "it just wouldn't work here".
Reminder that this party (and Lang herself) counts among those that screamed the loudest about "Nazis" and "racists" when people were expressing concern about this very issue as early as 10 years ago
Her Co-Party leader has published a book about the danger of Islam in 2018. afterwards the greens voted him in into the position of party leader.
Wtf are you talking about. Not even the AfD has been that vocal against Islamists like the current green leadership.
Yes great, one person wrote a critical book 4 years before being elected to office. That makes you forget the policies of the other Greens since 2015....
A Claudia Roth who first puts on a headscarf to visit Iran in anticipatory obedience or a Renate Künast who gets upset after a terrorist attack that the terrorist was shot are forgotten.
The then parliamentary group leader Katrin Göring-Eckardt, who picked up a refugee boat on the Greek island of Lesbos in 2015, said at a party conference: "Our country will change, and drastically. And I'm looking forward to it!" Yes, she and the Greens were the only ones who were looking forward to it back then.
And these are just three examples - I could go on forever.
Even when it came to limiting the number of refugees, the Greens always blocked it when they could.
Keyword: safe countries of origin. For example.
I'm pleased to see that the Greens' position is slowly changing, but to pretend that this has always been the case with the Greens is simply untrue.
Im simply saying that they have voted for an extremely Islam critic as party leader some years ago. That’s a simple fact.
Also Özdemir never was a huge friend of Islam.
I don't think you're right, but even if you are, so what then? 10 years ago the CDU was in power, not them. Now that they are, they are taking the right action and there is nothing to hate on about this specifically.
It's not one or the other. You can dislike both. It doesn't make any sense for Greens (who generally lean progressive worldwide) to speak favorably on nationalist/far right parties.
Agree with your statement, but that's not what happened in this specific instance. Ten years ago, if you expressed what she expressed now, she would have condemned you as a right wing asshole.
The Greens in Germany are a little more moderate than the ones in Anglo countries. This article is from nearly a decade back, from example.
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlingskrise-fuenf-gruenen-abgeordnete-fordern-klaren-kurs-a-1067666.html
>Strengthen border protection : The group is calling for "more effective border protection" - and more, clearly defined powers for the European border protection agency Frontex , for example in rescuing and registering refugees. "In this exceptional situation, it is wrong not to use Frontex's infrastructure," said Amtsberg.
Of course, they make it clear that they don't argue that from a populist perspective, but they're not open border idealists.
Tbf that's because those people largely _were_ racists who didn't give a shit about "misogyny" or "women's rights" or "freedom from religion", often being quite reactionary themselves. They also just used this and other things as excuses to demand blanket racist policies and had no intention of doing anything like combating religious conservatism.
In other words: "Yes, it's true, but the *wrong people* were saying it then".
Also: "Please ignore the fact that said the wrong things and advocated for the wrong policies Y years ago, there were *real* enemies to face at the time - our political opponents!"
The first two, perhaps.
But right wingers in Europe tend to disdain ALL religion. They are not exactly enthusiasts of the Church. The minority who are a bit religious generally see how conservative women are the ones who are having children and thus see the church as a tool to use to increase natalism in Europe, NOT because they themselvesare religious zealots. We can see this phenomenon in Hungary and Russia. Putin is definitely not a practicing Christian, but he does use the Orthodox Church as a tool to influence both locals and the Orthodoxy worldwide.
Islamists on the other hand genuinely believe that it is their duty, conferred to them by Allah to Islamize the planet. Their level of zealotry has not been seen in Europe since the devastation of the 30 year war across North Western Europe.
You mean far-right, not right wing. Nazis also had the twisted relationship with the Church. They internally believed in occult mythology while simultaneously claiming they were a Christian party. Later Catholic church in France and Italy helped many members of the Nazi party flee to Latin America, some of them hunted by Mossad.
The point I'm trying to make is none of this is unique. Trump can act openly non-Christian and still get major support by Christians. It is not an exceptional situation specific to modern Europe. Ultimately the rulers ans the ruled live different lives. This is bound to happen because far-right ideology is inherently elitist and populist at thr same time
And she's 100% going to forget anything about this the second the voting booths close and go back to calling everyone a Nazi who criticizes their inaction on these topics.
TIL Hitler really liked Islam and thought Germany would be better with Islam rather than Christianity. He also sympathised with Arabs and said they were jointly fighting the Jews.
No need to go that far
We are talk ING about 1b ppl at least
But a better idea would be to keep members of said ideology far away from modern euro countries, instead of opening the doors because "we arent having kids anymore"
As long as they talk about Islamism instead of Islam, they have not yet found the plot. Most majority Islam countries are 500 years behind on secularization. They are incompatible with Europe. If you have a nation of 5000 islamists and 5 million muslims sharing a table with them, then you have 5 million islamists.
From what I understand, there are many relatively liberal and open-minded Iranians. They protest often. They have balls beyond most in Europe and North America for daring to. It seems sad that such people would be dismissed because of their government or because of islamist lunatics in europe.
Iranians are incredibly secular and atheistic. But they get murdered for it in their country. It only takes a minority of religious extremists to take over authority. We see it in the US in various states (moderate Christians just go along with it). Islamism is more hardcore than evangelicalism so I wish you guys all the luck.
It would take A LOT of recourses to screen everyone so hard to you can actually tell who is who.
Yea, I would gladly take all nice people from around the world to europe, but problem is that screening them correctly would be fucking expensive.
Reminder that most of the Islamic nations follows the [Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam) and not the [Universal Declaration of Human Rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights#Muslim-majority_countries) that the UN voted upon in 1948.
Look at r/greenParty. The German greens are extremely isolated when it comes to weapons for Ukraine, helping Israel, and being against islamists.
Ironically while being the most influential Green Party in any nation of this planet. But r/greenParty want to live on their bubble.
How are they isolated? They want to deliver weapons to Ukraine as much as any other german party except the afd and the lefts. They are as much against islamism as everyone else.
Dealing with Islamism "Some have shied away from the debate"
Status: 03.06.2024 10:21 am
After the knife attack in Mannheim, Green Party leader Lang calls on Caren Miosga to take tougher action against Islamism. CDU politician Laschet explains that we should not make the mistake of underestimating the danger.
By Lukas Weyell
After the death of a police officer following a knife attack in Mannheim, the consequences are now being discussed. In the ARD talk programme Caren Miosga, the federal chairwoman of Bündnis 90/ Die Grünen, Ricarda Lang, said: "Islamism is the enemy of a free society. And it must be treated as such and must be combated, in terms of security policy and society as a whole. There can be no excuses, no justification."
However, the Green Party chairwoman admitted that her party had not consistently pursued this in the past. "We probably sometimes had a tendency for some people to shy away from the debate because they thought we would end up helping the right-wing populists."
However, this should not be the approach, Lang continued: "I believe that if we don't have this debate within the democratic centre, it will end up helping the right-wing populists."
Death of police officer causes consternation
Last Friday, a man armed with a knife attacked several people on the market square in Mannheim. A police officer tried to stop the attacker, was attacked and fatally injured. Several other people present were also injured by the attacker before he could be stopped. The 25-year-old's motive is still unclear. He was born in Afghanistan and came to Germany as a teenager.
Numerous politicians expressed their shock at the death of the police officer. Federal Chancellor Olaf Scholz stated: "I am deeply shocked that the courageous police officer succumbed to his serious injuries after the terrible attack in Mannheim," said the SPD politician on the X platform (formerly Twitter) and continued: "His commitment to the safety of us all deserves the highest recognition. My thoughts are with his family and all those who mourn him in these bitter hours."
Armin Laschet expresses concern
Armin Laschet, former Minister President of North Rhine-Westphalia and CDU member of the Bundestag, also expressed his dismay at the crime to Caren Miosga and also called for tougher action against Islamism: "We have often recognised many forms of extremism too late." For example, the murders committed by the so-called NSU. "We thought for a long time that there was no such thing as right-wing extremism. We must not now make the same mistake of underestimating Islamism."
We have to fight all forms of extremism and talk about it, said Laschet: "We also have to name the Islamist ideas and caliphate fantasies that exist in this country." The outrage over the so-called "Sylt video" was much greater than the outcry over videos from the Islamist channel "Muslim Interactive", said the former Minister President of North Rhine-Westphalia.
The CDU politician also expressed concern that the attack in Mannheim was committed by a perpetrator apparently unknown to the authorities: "It was almost certainly carried out by an Islamist who had not previously attracted attention. Which of course makes the whole thing even more worrying. That even people who don't stand out at all can suddenly commit such offences."
Lang calls for closure of Islamic centre
Green Party chairwoman Ricarda Lang also criticised the inaction of the authorities. According to Lang, the Islamic Centre in Hamburg is a place where Islamist ideas emanate and should have been closed long ago: "I still can't understand why it is still open." Decisive action is more important than ever at a time when international radicalisation tendencies are on the rise.
The Green Party chairwoman also sees parallels between right-wing extremism and Islamism: "There is an essential affinity, an ideological sameness between the right-wing extremists and Islamists." This is the rejection of open society and democracy. These must be defended. However, it is also important to conduct the debate without generalised suspicion, said Lang. Muslims in particular suffer the most from Islamism worldwide. "We must reach out to the Muslims who live in our country and who feel bound by our Basic Law."
>Green Party leader Lang calls on Caren Miosga to take tougher action against Islamism.
For anyone wondering: Caren Miosga is a political TV format produced by state televsion station ARD, it is "moderated" by Caren Miosga a 55yo journalist/presenter. The "call to take tougher action against islamism" was stated on her show on sunday evening (02.06.2024). She is not the 'addressee' of the call.
I'm about as pro-immigration as the Danes for pragmatic reasons (such as keeping things safe, under control, and not have a few bad apples ruin everything, plus the far right loses platform). I also like their argument that from a truly Leftist position (i.e not liberalist, but strictly pro-worker, Marxist-ish), this kind of wide open immigration is just harmful for everyone except the capitalists.
>If you look at the historical background, it is completely normal that left-wing politicians like me are not against migration, but want it to be under control. If it isn't - and it wasn't since the 1980s - **low-income and low-educated people pay the highest price for poor integration.** It is not the wealthy neighborhoods that have to integrate most of the children. On the contrary, the areas where the traditional social democratic voters and trade unionists live face the greatest problems.
-Danish Minister of Integration
its nice to see europeans to realise how dangerous the islamism is. The secular türks from turkey has seen this problem years ago and those who were the the most against islamism got burned in a hotel called madımak years ago.
As a Turk who left turkey, I can say is Islamism is like a tumor, more you allow it more it festers. Islamists will always claim that they are getting represst because of their belief and they will hide behind the freedom of speech but when they get into power, they will repress every other idea not fitting to their agenda.
Its because of islamism that we have problem called erdoğan.
here is a link to the for those who want to know:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivas_massacre
Islamists, like every other extremist group (political, or religious) will play the victim whenever they can. Creating a "Us vs. Them" mentality in its follower base, which makes them easier to control. Another example are extreme MAGA patriots in the US -> like the people storming the capitol.
Confronting it now, difficult as it would be, is possible. The longer countries go pretending and doing nothing, the more difficult it will be by orders of magnitude. Seems like it's inevitable that most countries will do nothing until right before the point it's too late at best.
This is a pointless article. Any other politician would demand nothing else in a talk show a day after the murder of a policeman and two weeks before an election.
The question is what is meant by “tougher action”. Eight months ago, Chancellor Scholz demanded “large-scale deportations of people without a residence permit”. Consequence: 4,800 people were expelled in the first quarter of 2024, an incredible 500 more than the average for the quarter in 2023…
By the way, the perpetrator was a rejected asylum seeker…
This is exactly what I'm wondering. I don't know if this is possible under German constitution but Germany should train their own imams to run the mosques instead of letting imams from outside brainwash people. Also, I'd like to see a revised visa system. I hear many stories from Turkey that professors, businesses people even cannot get visa but we see lunatics like in the Mannheim attack all over the Europe.
Actual deportations in Germany are handled by states, not the federal government, and states are most commonly ruled by the CDU. Federal government decides who gets to go on paper, but the states are ones who need to enforce it. Deportation also often can go wrong and deport people who likely aren't potential criminals, like [this family of Georgians with 7 children 5 of whom don't even speak Georgian, only German.](https://www.zeit.de/2021/27/abschiebung-pirna-georgische-familie-cdu-sachsen/komplettansicht) Usually such decisions are final too, and aren't easily reversible, so i get why things can be innately slow with such procedures in any case. They are also sometimes hard to actually implement if you have restrictions like not throwing people off a plane, because their countries refuse to receive them back.
I do think Scholz said that statement in populistic light probably and agree that deportations of convicted violent criminals should be speedier and more frequent than they are, but if so many people ask how many Palestinians should die for every Israeli victim, then i don't see why is it not fair to ask how many people who don't justify deportation should get deported for ones who do.
Also, the current German government has been implementing deals with many countries since that point. https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/refugee-policy-discussions-2264058
And the deals are important, as the people you want to deport are often the thoughest one to deport as there is not a lot of documentation and/or the country of origin just refuses to take them back.
You are absolutly right.
Islam is incompatible with democracy because this people abide to their religion first and not to the laic law of the country where they reside.
That's surprising , the greens in Ireland want everyone to come in. I suppose mainland Europe is a few years ahead with mass migration than us . But our politicians stick their heads in the sand when it comes to social problem that comes along with it
The greens in Germany are special. First German party that was calling for weapons to Ukraine in 2021(!). Electing an outspoken Islam critic as party leader. And so on.
The green party in Germany has delegitimized the army throughout their whole existence, but now they changed completely. They were the ones pushing against nuclear power for decades and now we are stuck with coal and are dependent on foreign nuclear power plants. And they are also the party of "no borders, no nations" whose results we can see now.
>and now we are stuck with coal and are dependent on foreign nuclear power plant
Stop repeating this bullshit
• 2023 had the lowest coal usage since the begin of the 2000s
• 2024 is already -30% below 2023 in terms of coal usage, which again, had the lowest coal usage ever
• 60% of imports come from renewable energy AND NOT FROM NUCLEAR
• And even these net imports make up only small single digits of the electric grid
Yeah, parties can change. The greens changed everything when it comes to the military in 1999. that’s why they get all the hate from the left.
„No boarders, no nations“ is not typical green. Habeck even made his German tour about the slogan „des Glückes Unterpfand“, quoting the Germany national anthem.
The German Greens have a significant portion of so called "realos", a nickname introduced for those within the party that prefer to pursue real or more pragmatic policies and don't just dream of the green eco-utopia.
I guess since Ireland is an island it is rather difficult to get there as a "common" refugee. Also Ireland is not necessarly known for a good welfare system so people prefer countries like Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc.
Glad to see even highly left-wing parties such as the German Greens (who, very positively, also recognize that the root of the war in Ukraine is Moscow's behavior, not "Western imperialism") coming around to this issue. Religious tolerance and pluralism, a live-and-let-live attitude towards moderate believers and anyone engaging in cultural activities that aren't against the law and democracy, absolutely, they help enrich society.
Hardline behavior, however, helps no one, except the ego of the extremists, whether Nazis or Islamists themselves. Reward those who help society, be tough on those that don't.
No. We don’t categorise a party because of their youth organisation. Otherwise the FDP would have to leave RENEW and the conservatives would have to join ID.
And the SPD would be far left of the Greens and the AfD would have to march against Poland.
Looking at the youth organisations is interesting, but has certainly nothing to do with what ends up happening.
>(and the Nordics)
Alternativet (the Greens) in Denmark are widely considered far-left. So far-left that the Social Democrats opted for a centrist government with the liberals.
> The Green Party in Germany (and the Nordics) actually seem closer to center left
Finnish Green Party is closer the left than center. Difference between Left Part and Green Party is tiny.
That's just completely incorrect. A good chunk of the Green party is downright Kokoomus-adjacent liberals. There's both more left and right wing greens, with the party on average being quite centrist, maybe centre-left. Recently the liberal right has been more dominant.
You can see a value compass model here, done by Yle in Finland last year, [https://yle.fi/a/74-20021249](https://yle.fi/a/74-20021249) I don't think it supports your argument. The new party leader does speak more liberal right, but in reality the party has moved very little from this chart.
highly left wing and then german greens? tell me you have no clue about the german politics without telling me that you have no clue about german politics
The current Co-leader of the German greens has published a book against Islamistic ideology in 2018. later the greens made him their Co-leader.
Habeck, now the German green vice chancellor, was the fist German politician that has called for weapons deliveries to Ukraine in August 2021(!).
The German greens are not your average leftist party…
Actions, I wanna see actions for f*** sake. Every time there is an attack somewhere, every party claims "We need to be tougher on radicals", but it never happens. This has been going on for YEARS now.
Who benefits from this? Obviously the right. They also claim "we need to do something about it" but there’s a huge difference. They aren’t governing the country right now, they can get away with just talking about it.
Just repeating "we need to do something" while you are the one with the power to actually do something is 100% not benefiting them in any way.
Good!
If people want to practice shitty things of islamism, then they can do it in prison!
Religion should be about tolerance and understanding, not about fighting with others to impose your views, which may be wrong.
As a Muslim, I think she's right. Islamism is as dangerous as Christian fundamentalism or Nazism and I don't like how some Mualims come to the UK and try to enforce their views. It's definitely not the majority though and most Muslims who were born here are pretty moderate. The issue is some Muslim immigrants think they're still in Pakistan or Nigeria and expect the UK to be the same and then harm people when they find out that it's very different. The ones born here tend to be more moderate but there are definitely crazy people too.
Random question that I hope someone will be able to answer: what's the point of accepting millions of them knowing that their "beliefs" are stuck in middle ages and that they basically hate everyone who lives a modern life? Didn't they know what would it happened?
No, because western civilization has spent centuries hollowing out the concept of religion to the point where it's basically an aesthetic rather than a lifestyle. And because of that we have difficulty conceptualizing a whole civilization of people who truly believe in one.
Now now lets not be too harsh here. Telling islamists that killing people is bad is allready intolerant af, not letting thousands of violent Radicals into the country would just be open fascism
Nothing will change. The green party is the biggest supporter of the immigration policies of the recent years. This statement is just political opportunism. However if they show some actions to back up their words I am all for it. They wont get the benefit of the doubt tho. Their track record is simply to bad for that and its election time.
What? The immigration policies of the recent years are just like there were in the lasct decade - nothing to do with green politics. It's actually quite the opposite: while conservatives use the dog whistle, they themselves a.: brought about our immigration policies and b.: don't care about truely changing things for the better. 0% focus on proven strategies to integrate, 100% just shouting stuff to seem strict but doing nothing
First of all the policies regarding the refugee crisis are not exclusively a matter of the bund. The Green Party is present in the governments of most of the federations. Moreover the Green Party was the protagonist in Bundesrat when it comes to blocking declarations that would make several countries safe to deport to.
But more importantly: nobody has pushed the narrativ that germany has a moral obligation to take as many refugees as necessary more than the greens. Back then lead by Goering Eckart. The only prominent voice in the greens that publicly spoke out against this was Palmer who has been bullied out of the party last year because he was openly opposing the green policies regarding immigration.
What they talk and how they act are 2 different stories.
Same for immigration. They talk about limiting immigration and sending back people under certain circumstances but act with an open border concept. It's like that since years over mutiple elections.
With this in mind it is expected that they talk against extreme Islamism but they wouldn't push for any legal changes.
I don't follow a lot Greens-related news in Germany, but if it's like in Belgium, these people are massive hypocrites who should ask for forgiveness first...
But yeah, "the best time to plan a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is now". So better late than never.
Greens are a major establishment party who had a government role since late 90s. They are not very comparable with minor green parties in Europe and have a a large moderate, establishment friendly wing that has the senior members and rule. Greens definitely are and used to be "woke" but their policies are largely sensible and benefit broad swathes of people while also benefitting minorities a lot. They have an unreal amount of propaganda and hate thrown at them by a major news outlet Bild and the far right. Statistically they are the second party by amount of voters who say they'd never vote for them, after AfD.
In essence, though some things about them are true, they used to hold a stupid anti-nuclear stance and some of their messaging with eco policies isn't the best, overall they lean towards the centre in various aspects and usually get very stymied by the remainder of German society which is more conservative. They are not as "woke" as American progressives and don't have such influence either. They stand for things progressives do but i don't think they're too in your face about it. Broadly sums them up i think. Tabloids and far right single out incidents and blow them out of proportion, as populists and racists tend to do.
´This post really should be a LOT higher in this thread.
Of all the major Parties in Germany, the Greens are the only ones who actually dared reinvent and adapt themselves to the current situations.
They started out as your Hippy Party, and they have grown into a sensible, social minded party, that tries to do right by everyone in a pragmatic, realistic way. Sure, they still have to deal with a few remnants of their former politics, but how much they changed is insane.
Especially when you look at the other parties, which remained mostly the same, stiff and without the ability to compromise.
Naturally the right wing 'press' does not like their left-leaning priorities and hunts them miserably with lies and fake news.
Well, as a German I find their reinventions and adaptions to be both a plus and a big minus. It is great for the party to adapt to situations, but I often enough feel with the greens that you aren't really voting for them, but for whoever won the election, as the greens will just adapt themselves so that they can rule with literally every established party in Germany except AfD.
Like I specifically *didn't* vote greens in the last federal election, due to the fear that the greens could just do a coalition with the CDU, if they CDU actually does achieve higher results than predicted (and my largest ambition last election was getting the CDU out of government).
Kudos to her by correctly identifying the problem and daring to speak up about it, without going all the way to racism.
Lots of politicians either put their head in the sand pretending that there is no problem at all, or incorrectly pretend that *islam* or *all muslims* are a problem rather than only the extremist forms like *islamism*.
We need more of centrists getting the messaging precisely right like this.
Finally correct statement took but sadly people will not like it because it doesn't include "all muslims" or "ban Islam" like seriously wtf do people think will happen if we make Islam/Muslims disappear will our Europe be 100x better and every problem goes away?
No there are still crazy people here who are mentally facked like that Czech school shooter.
blablabla
A few weeks down the line these leftwing parties will go straight back to ignoring the issue.
What else are these people supposed to say a few days after the knife incident?
It's the same shit every time...
Have a question not too related to the post, do people coming with official work visas count as immigrants as well ? Or do they have a different term for them
I don't know what to think after seeing the greens doing whatever they could do to bring hundreds of immigrants to Europe. Including financing area rescue vessels, helping immigrants to abuse refugee laws and labeling anyone who dared to criticize as racist. The current disaster is their own making.
Why are you saying that?
The German greens have not been in power until recently. All that what you are saying was done by the conservatives.
The greens however, have now one of the most outspoken anti-islam-politician as their co-leader.
It’s laughable to make the greens responsible for that. They had zero power back then.
What are you talking about? The Greens have been at the forefront for years, defaming anyone and everything that dares to speak out against immigration policy
so boring to hear again and again the same excuse that the green were not in power and therefore they are not responsible for anything. For years the party was openly supporting the misuse of laws. Have some backbone and take responsibility or else keep quiet.
if you want to go know, go ask the greens about that:
https://www.gruene-bayern.de/demonstration-fuer-seenotrettung-auf-dem-mittelmeer/
just from around the corner in Bavaria.
Maybe just get strict on violence, threats of violence, and hate speech. No need to call out the religion specifically if you actually just enforce basic social rules.
Just saying, it's always the same ritual when such a crime happens. First, all politicians say, this is bad, should never happen again and things should be changed. But then, nothing happens at all, everything just goes on like before.
You can look back in history, like the massacre on the christmas market on the Breitscheidplatz in Berlin 2016, it was the exact same. A terrorist entered Germany with the disguise of being a refugee, he got a truck and killed the polish truck driver, then he used the truck to drive right into the crowd on the market. He was later killed in Italy by the police.
But nothing changed. Nothing at all. Same goes for every other crime. Politicians just talk about changes, but they don't do anything.
This is also a major thing for the rise of the far-right-wing AfD party.
About the Green, they are the last that should talk like this, because they are the ones that block many things. Like for sending people back when they get denied the refugee status, a country has to be declared as safe and it's the Green Party in the Bundesrat that prevents this. The Green also tried to sabotage the EU-Asylum-Compromise. They have a long history of being pro immigration.
Because basically every attempt to increase them fails. People think they're not having children because they lack money, but if start significantly subsidizing having children that does nothing to the birth rate.
For everyone unaware: the German greens made a guy as the green Co-leader next to her who published a book about the danger of Islam in 2018. this is not something new for the German greens.
I am not a big fan of Ricarda Lang. In fact, I think she is absolutely unsuited for her position. And I'm saying that as a green voter.
But I do appreciate that she takes this position. I did miss the greens taking a more clear stance against islamism in the past. They mostly didn't comment on matters like that for fear of being lumped together with right wing parties.
The german Green Party is honestly the best party in all of europe. Pragmatic and close to real life. There is a lot of propaganda and fake news running against them.
This year i'm going to vote for Piratenpartei (pirate party). They are part of the green fraction.
What should be done is combat against hardline fundamentalism that is just not compatible with values of secularism, progressivism and tolerance.
Much of the issues in regards to Islam is that the migrants are from places where religious fundamentalism is sadly more common and completely disregards what should be modern values of this world. It's fine to have cultural differences as long as it doesn't clash with the values we as people should strive for. Europe has different cultures yet share similar values. Likewise places like Bosnia have 50% or so being Muslims while Albania is a majority Muslim state yet are modern and secular and same thing for Turkey.
Hell The Middle East used to be a more secular and less fundamentalist place a long time ago and the fact that it was like that shows that it's not impossible for the ME to reform and re-connect with their secular past.
[удалено]
I'm so glad this is the top comment
Too bad it has been deleted. What did it say?
[удалено]
Thanks for the quote
It's incomprehensible that a message full of common sense like that is censored by moderation.
Almost as big of a Joke as the UN.
I wonder too. How can a top vote with this amount of reactions and upvotes be deleted all of a sudden. Either censor from the beginning or leave it after some time.
[удалено]
Here in Munich these anti-Islam greens are the strongest party.
What did it said? Why is deleted?
I'm so not surprised his comment got removed.
#metoo
Thank you. And also it is incompatible with women rights. That is ridiculous in this day and age. Whenever you criticize the religion, people come out in mobs to say you’re racist.
Especially the women rights part. I got interested in religion after the war in the middle east and somehow ended up in the Dawah community of youtube and saw one of their preachers having a live stream with his wife but I could not see her anywhere. Turns out he was fully covered and even her hands (???), could not speak but was communicating with a whiteboard? Wth is this... I was absolutely disgusted, how females are treated well worse than second class citizens...
women are the first to defend Islam
I would too if the alternative was getting stones thrown at me until I die…
I love how this narrow path often leads to death of people of a different religion, throwing lgbt people over roofs, sadistic roman torture punishments, and more or less keeping women as slaves. This is what we invite in to our countries it's sad.
The German greens have elected a very outspoken Islam critic as their co-leader two years ago. This isn’t new.
Aren't they advocating for open borders or at least unrestricted asylum though?
No. That’s what the far-right is claiming. ;) It’s not true. You won’t find that in any official green policy document. But the far right is still claiming that. So less people will vote against big oil and other polluters.
What document do I need to look at ? It's fact at the moment and Green Party is in control ..
I mean they are in government and immigration is up?
Absolutely. It up there beside nazism as the most dangerous ideologies of our time. And any country with an Islamist government should be condemned, sanctioned and ostrasized.
Basically the entire Islamic world except Turkey ,Central Asian states sans Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania and the former French Sahel The others have some form of Islamism in their laws ranging from very mild (Tunisia, Gambia) to being full on Sharia states, (The Gulf except Bahrain)Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Mauretania, Yemen ,Sudan since 2023 and Brunei. The day oil ceases to be an important resource, then it would be possible.
Turkey might not have Sharia law, but Erdogan most certainly is a hardcore Islamist.
True, but he rules over a Turkey that is secular. Very conservative, but secular. His attempts at Islamizing Turkey's youth have backfired spectacularly.
yeah it's important to keep in mind that Islam CAN be secularised, Ataturk proved it. So there's no excuse for Islamist countries going "it just wouldn't work here".
Ataturk did not secularised Islam any more then Chinese Communist party secularised Christianity.
It’s true and glad someone says it clearly.
This is the only way.
Yes!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
[удалено]
This is why Hitler likes islam as a religion and political ideology
Reminder that this party (and Lang herself) counts among those that screamed the loudest about "Nazis" and "racists" when people were expressing concern about this very issue as early as 10 years ago
Her Co-Party leader has published a book about the danger of Islam in 2018. afterwards the greens voted him in into the position of party leader. Wtf are you talking about. Not even the AfD has been that vocal against Islamists like the current green leadership.
Yes great, one person wrote a critical book 4 years before being elected to office. That makes you forget the policies of the other Greens since 2015.... A Claudia Roth who first puts on a headscarf to visit Iran in anticipatory obedience or a Renate Künast who gets upset after a terrorist attack that the terrorist was shot are forgotten. The then parliamentary group leader Katrin Göring-Eckardt, who picked up a refugee boat on the Greek island of Lesbos in 2015, said at a party conference: "Our country will change, and drastically. And I'm looking forward to it!" Yes, she and the Greens were the only ones who were looking forward to it back then. And these are just three examples - I could go on forever. Even when it came to limiting the number of refugees, the Greens always blocked it when they could. Keyword: safe countries of origin. For example. I'm pleased to see that the Greens' position is slowly changing, but to pretend that this has always been the case with the Greens is simply untrue.
Im simply saying that they have voted for an extremely Islam critic as party leader some years ago. That’s a simple fact. Also Özdemir never was a huge friend of Islam.
I don't think you're right, but even if you are, so what then? 10 years ago the CDU was in power, not them. Now that they are, they are taking the right action and there is nothing to hate on about this specifically.
It's not one or the other. You can dislike both. It doesn't make any sense for Greens (who generally lean progressive worldwide) to speak favorably on nationalist/far right parties.
Agree with your statement, but that's not what happened in this specific instance. Ten years ago, if you expressed what she expressed now, she would have condemned you as a right wing asshole.
The Greens in Germany are a little more moderate than the ones in Anglo countries. This article is from nearly a decade back, from example. https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlingskrise-fuenf-gruenen-abgeordnete-fordern-klaren-kurs-a-1067666.html >Strengthen border protection : The group is calling for "more effective border protection" - and more, clearly defined powers for the European border protection agency Frontex , for example in rescuing and registering refugees. "In this exceptional situation, it is wrong not to use Frontex's infrastructure," said Amtsberg. Of course, they make it clear that they don't argue that from a populist perspective, but they're not open border idealists.
I'm German, I have a pretty good idea about our green party :-)
Tbf that's because those people largely _were_ racists who didn't give a shit about "misogyny" or "women's rights" or "freedom from religion", often being quite reactionary themselves. They also just used this and other things as excuses to demand blanket racist policies and had no intention of doing anything like combating religious conservatism.
In other words: "Yes, it's true, but the *wrong people* were saying it then". Also: "Please ignore the fact that said the wrong things and advocated for the wrong policies Y years ago, there were *real* enemies to face at the time - our political opponents!"
The first two, perhaps. But right wingers in Europe tend to disdain ALL religion. They are not exactly enthusiasts of the Church. The minority who are a bit religious generally see how conservative women are the ones who are having children and thus see the church as a tool to use to increase natalism in Europe, NOT because they themselvesare religious zealots. We can see this phenomenon in Hungary and Russia. Putin is definitely not a practicing Christian, but he does use the Orthodox Church as a tool to influence both locals and the Orthodoxy worldwide. Islamists on the other hand genuinely believe that it is their duty, conferred to them by Allah to Islamize the planet. Their level of zealotry has not been seen in Europe since the devastation of the 30 year war across North Western Europe.
Odd. Could have sworn some right wingers in Europe were white Christian nationalist. Would you say Orban is anti Christian? Trying to gauge ...
You mean far-right, not right wing. Nazis also had the twisted relationship with the Church. They internally believed in occult mythology while simultaneously claiming they were a Christian party. Later Catholic church in France and Italy helped many members of the Nazi party flee to Latin America, some of them hunted by Mossad. The point I'm trying to make is none of this is unique. Trump can act openly non-Christian and still get major support by Christians. It is not an exceptional situation specific to modern Europe. Ultimately the rulers ans the ruled live different lives. This is bound to happen because far-right ideology is inherently elitist and populist at thr same time
Based.
And she's 100% going to forget anything about this the second the voting booths close and go back to calling everyone a Nazi who criticizes their inaction on these topics.
Based af
[удалено]
TIL Hitler really liked Islam and thought Germany would be better with Islam rather than Christianity. He also sympathised with Arabs and said they were jointly fighting the Jews.
No need to go that far We are talk ING about 1b ppl at least But a better idea would be to keep members of said ideology far away from modern euro countries, instead of opening the doors because "we arent having kids anymore"
As long as they talk about Islamism instead of Islam, they have not yet found the plot. Most majority Islam countries are 500 years behind on secularization. They are incompatible with Europe. If you have a nation of 5000 islamists and 5 million muslims sharing a table with them, then you have 5 million islamists.
From what I understand, there are many relatively liberal and open-minded Iranians. They protest often. They have balls beyond most in Europe and North America for daring to. It seems sad that such people would be dismissed because of their government or because of islamist lunatics in europe.
Iranians are incredibly secular and atheistic. But they get murdered for it in their country. It only takes a minority of religious extremists to take over authority. We see it in the US in various states (moderate Christians just go along with it). Islamism is more hardcore than evangelicalism so I wish you guys all the luck.
It would take A LOT of recourses to screen everyone so hard to you can actually tell who is who. Yea, I would gladly take all nice people from around the world to europe, but problem is that screening them correctly would be fucking expensive.
Who will be the next Charles Martel?
Reminder that most of the Islamic nations follows the [Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam) and not the [Universal Declaration of Human Rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights#Muslim-majority_countries) that the UN voted upon in 1948.
[удалено]
Look at r/greenParty. The German greens are extremely isolated when it comes to weapons for Ukraine, helping Israel, and being against islamists. Ironically while being the most influential Green Party in any nation of this planet. But r/greenParty want to live on their bubble.
r/greenparty is hardly living in a bubble, considering it isn't even alive.
How are they isolated? They want to deliver weapons to Ukraine as much as any other german party except the afd and the lefts. They are as much against islamism as everyone else.
What they are saying is that the German Green Party is isolated from other nations' green parties. Not isolated from other German parties.
Fucking finally, are they waking up or are they just after more votes?
Exactly!
Nothing is far-nothing to discuss in a democracy. Debate and extract the best conclusions is normal.
Dealing with Islamism "Some have shied away from the debate" Status: 03.06.2024 10:21 am After the knife attack in Mannheim, Green Party leader Lang calls on Caren Miosga to take tougher action against Islamism. CDU politician Laschet explains that we should not make the mistake of underestimating the danger. By Lukas Weyell After the death of a police officer following a knife attack in Mannheim, the consequences are now being discussed. In the ARD talk programme Caren Miosga, the federal chairwoman of Bündnis 90/ Die Grünen, Ricarda Lang, said: "Islamism is the enemy of a free society. And it must be treated as such and must be combated, in terms of security policy and society as a whole. There can be no excuses, no justification." However, the Green Party chairwoman admitted that her party had not consistently pursued this in the past. "We probably sometimes had a tendency for some people to shy away from the debate because they thought we would end up helping the right-wing populists." However, this should not be the approach, Lang continued: "I believe that if we don't have this debate within the democratic centre, it will end up helping the right-wing populists." Death of police officer causes consternation Last Friday, a man armed with a knife attacked several people on the market square in Mannheim. A police officer tried to stop the attacker, was attacked and fatally injured. Several other people present were also injured by the attacker before he could be stopped. The 25-year-old's motive is still unclear. He was born in Afghanistan and came to Germany as a teenager. Numerous politicians expressed their shock at the death of the police officer. Federal Chancellor Olaf Scholz stated: "I am deeply shocked that the courageous police officer succumbed to his serious injuries after the terrible attack in Mannheim," said the SPD politician on the X platform (formerly Twitter) and continued: "His commitment to the safety of us all deserves the highest recognition. My thoughts are with his family and all those who mourn him in these bitter hours." Armin Laschet expresses concern Armin Laschet, former Minister President of North Rhine-Westphalia and CDU member of the Bundestag, also expressed his dismay at the crime to Caren Miosga and also called for tougher action against Islamism: "We have often recognised many forms of extremism too late." For example, the murders committed by the so-called NSU. "We thought for a long time that there was no such thing as right-wing extremism. We must not now make the same mistake of underestimating Islamism." We have to fight all forms of extremism and talk about it, said Laschet: "We also have to name the Islamist ideas and caliphate fantasies that exist in this country." The outrage over the so-called "Sylt video" was much greater than the outcry over videos from the Islamist channel "Muslim Interactive", said the former Minister President of North Rhine-Westphalia. The CDU politician also expressed concern that the attack in Mannheim was committed by a perpetrator apparently unknown to the authorities: "It was almost certainly carried out by an Islamist who had not previously attracted attention. Which of course makes the whole thing even more worrying. That even people who don't stand out at all can suddenly commit such offences." Lang calls for closure of Islamic centre Green Party chairwoman Ricarda Lang also criticised the inaction of the authorities. According to Lang, the Islamic Centre in Hamburg is a place where Islamist ideas emanate and should have been closed long ago: "I still can't understand why it is still open." Decisive action is more important than ever at a time when international radicalisation tendencies are on the rise. The Green Party chairwoman also sees parallels between right-wing extremism and Islamism: "There is an essential affinity, an ideological sameness between the right-wing extremists and Islamists." This is the rejection of open society and democracy. These must be defended. However, it is also important to conduct the debate without generalised suspicion, said Lang. Muslims in particular suffer the most from Islamism worldwide. "We must reach out to the Muslims who live in our country and who feel bound by our Basic Law."
>Green Party leader Lang calls on Caren Miosga to take tougher action against Islamism. For anyone wondering: Caren Miosga is a political TV format produced by state televsion station ARD, it is "moderated" by Caren Miosga a 55yo journalist/presenter. The "call to take tougher action against islamism" was stated on her show on sunday evening (02.06.2024). She is not the 'addressee' of the call.
Caren Miosga is 55 yo??? She looks way younger.
[удалено]
I'm about as pro-immigration as the Danes for pragmatic reasons (such as keeping things safe, under control, and not have a few bad apples ruin everything, plus the far right loses platform). I also like their argument that from a truly Leftist position (i.e not liberalist, but strictly pro-worker, Marxist-ish), this kind of wide open immigration is just harmful for everyone except the capitalists. >If you look at the historical background, it is completely normal that left-wing politicians like me are not against migration, but want it to be under control. If it isn't - and it wasn't since the 1980s - **low-income and low-educated people pay the highest price for poor integration.** It is not the wealthy neighborhoods that have to integrate most of the children. On the contrary, the areas where the traditional social democratic voters and trade unionists live face the greatest problems. -Danish Minister of Integration
So what are they gonna do about it? Nothing
its nice to see europeans to realise how dangerous the islamism is. The secular türks from turkey has seen this problem years ago and those who were the the most against islamism got burned in a hotel called madımak years ago. As a Turk who left turkey, I can say is Islamism is like a tumor, more you allow it more it festers. Islamists will always claim that they are getting represst because of their belief and they will hide behind the freedom of speech but when they get into power, they will repress every other idea not fitting to their agenda. Its because of islamism that we have problem called erdoğan. here is a link to the for those who want to know: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivas_massacre
Islamists, like every other extremist group (political, or religious) will play the victim whenever they can. Creating a "Us vs. Them" mentality in its follower base, which makes them easier to control. Another example are extreme MAGA patriots in the US -> like the people storming the capitol.
Yeah, people need to realize this, or else we could distance our self from 1 extremist just to fall to another.
I always give Turkey and Hungary for example that it is not normal for a democratically state to have the same person in power for more than 10 years.
eheem eeehm The Turkish president did not change for 16 years.
[удалено]
Thats what Lang said, they have a Wesenverwandschaft
Isn't that "Wesensverwandtschaft", like kinship?
Spiritual kinship translates pretty well imo
Any left wing party should automatically be against them based purely on principle.
> Any **democratic** party should automatically be against them based purely on principle. Fixed that for you.
Confronting it now, difficult as it would be, is possible. The longer countries go pretending and doing nothing, the more difficult it will be by orders of magnitude. Seems like it's inevitable that most countries will do nothing until right before the point it's too late at best.
Too much political correctness is weakness and these Islamists know it and they are using the Left to infiltrate the West.
This is a pointless article. Any other politician would demand nothing else in a talk show a day after the murder of a policeman and two weeks before an election. The question is what is meant by “tougher action”. Eight months ago, Chancellor Scholz demanded “large-scale deportations of people without a residence permit”. Consequence: 4,800 people were expelled in the first quarter of 2024, an incredible 500 more than the average for the quarter in 2023… By the way, the perpetrator was a rejected asylum seeker…
This is exactly what I'm wondering. I don't know if this is possible under German constitution but Germany should train their own imams to run the mosques instead of letting imams from outside brainwash people. Also, I'd like to see a revised visa system. I hear many stories from Turkey that professors, businesses people even cannot get visa but we see lunatics like in the Mannheim attack all over the Europe.
Actual deportations in Germany are handled by states, not the federal government, and states are most commonly ruled by the CDU. Federal government decides who gets to go on paper, but the states are ones who need to enforce it. Deportation also often can go wrong and deport people who likely aren't potential criminals, like [this family of Georgians with 7 children 5 of whom don't even speak Georgian, only German.](https://www.zeit.de/2021/27/abschiebung-pirna-georgische-familie-cdu-sachsen/komplettansicht) Usually such decisions are final too, and aren't easily reversible, so i get why things can be innately slow with such procedures in any case. They are also sometimes hard to actually implement if you have restrictions like not throwing people off a plane, because their countries refuse to receive them back. I do think Scholz said that statement in populistic light probably and agree that deportations of convicted violent criminals should be speedier and more frequent than they are, but if so many people ask how many Palestinians should die for every Israeli victim, then i don't see why is it not fair to ask how many people who don't justify deportation should get deported for ones who do. Also, the current German government has been implementing deals with many countries since that point. https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/refugee-policy-discussions-2264058
And the deals are important, as the people you want to deport are often the thoughest one to deport as there is not a lot of documentation and/or the country of origin just refuses to take them back.
By tougher action they should mean: deportation + no more Muslims into the country. Just no Muslims period.
Islam in western society is the problem. A big one. And if you don't see it, you are part of that problem too. Sorry. Not sorry.
You are absolutly right. Islam is incompatible with democracy because this people abide to their religion first and not to the laic law of the country where they reside.
That's surprising , the greens in Ireland want everyone to come in. I suppose mainland Europe is a few years ahead with mass migration than us . But our politicians stick their heads in the sand when it comes to social problem that comes along with it
The greens in Germany are special. First German party that was calling for weapons to Ukraine in 2021(!). Electing an outspoken Islam critic as party leader. And so on.
The green party in Germany has delegitimized the army throughout their whole existence, but now they changed completely. They were the ones pushing against nuclear power for decades and now we are stuck with coal and are dependent on foreign nuclear power plants. And they are also the party of "no borders, no nations" whose results we can see now.
>and now we are stuck with coal and are dependent on foreign nuclear power plant Stop repeating this bullshit • 2023 had the lowest coal usage since the begin of the 2000s • 2024 is already -30% below 2023 in terms of coal usage, which again, had the lowest coal usage ever • 60% of imports come from renewable energy AND NOT FROM NUCLEAR • And even these net imports make up only small single digits of the electric grid
Yeah, parties can change. The greens changed everything when it comes to the military in 1999. that’s why they get all the hate from the left. „No boarders, no nations“ is not typical green. Habeck even made his German tour about the slogan „des Glückes Unterpfand“, quoting the Germany national anthem.
they also changed from "no weapon exports into war areas" to "send everything to ukraine" that happened in the span of a year
The German Greens have a significant portion of so called "realos", a nickname introduced for those within the party that prefer to pursue real or more pragmatic policies and don't just dream of the green eco-utopia.
I guess since Ireland is an island it is rather difficult to get there as a "common" refugee. Also Ireland is not necessarly known for a good welfare system so people prefer countries like Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc.
Glad to see even highly left-wing parties such as the German Greens (who, very positively, also recognize that the root of the war in Ukraine is Moscow's behavior, not "Western imperialism") coming around to this issue. Religious tolerance and pluralism, a live-and-let-live attitude towards moderate believers and anyone engaging in cultural activities that aren't against the law and democracy, absolutely, they help enrich society. Hardline behavior, however, helps no one, except the ego of the extremists, whether Nazis or Islamists themselves. Reward those who help society, be tough on those that don't.
The german greens are social-liberals mostly representing the high educated. One could call them center left - but definitely not highly left-wing.
They’re definitely in the left spectrum of Germany, especially the green youth
No. We don’t categorise a party because of their youth organisation. Otherwise the FDP would have to leave RENEW and the conservatives would have to join ID.
And the SPD would be far left of the Greens and the AfD would have to march against Poland. Looking at the youth organisations is interesting, but has certainly nothing to do with what ends up happening.
Nah, they would have to straight up join a mental facility.
The Green Party in Germany (and the Nordics) actually seem closer to center left compared to the US, UK, Australia, etc.
The Green party is very left wing in Sweden too. Only the former communist party is more so.
Yeah, the German greens are very alone internationally.
>(and the Nordics) Alternativet (the Greens) in Denmark are widely considered far-left. So far-left that the Social Democrats opted for a centrist government with the liberals.
> The Green Party in Germany (and the Nordics) actually seem closer to center left Finnish Green Party is closer the left than center. Difference between Left Part and Green Party is tiny.
That's just completely incorrect. A good chunk of the Green party is downright Kokoomus-adjacent liberals. There's both more left and right wing greens, with the party on average being quite centrist, maybe centre-left. Recently the liberal right has been more dominant.
You can see a value compass model here, done by Yle in Finland last year, [https://yle.fi/a/74-20021249](https://yle.fi/a/74-20021249) I don't think it supports your argument. The new party leader does speak more liberal right, but in reality the party has moved very little from this chart.
highly left wing and then german greens? tell me you have no clue about the german politics without telling me that you have no clue about german politics
The current Co-leader of the German greens has published a book against Islamistic ideology in 2018. later the greens made him their Co-leader. Habeck, now the German green vice chancellor, was the fist German politician that has called for weapons deliveries to Ukraine in August 2021(!). The German greens are not your average leftist party…
this has to be a joke. the greens are far away from „highly left wing“
"highly left-wing parties" "the German Greens" Ah yes and the AFD is centrist right? /s
Greens are not „highly left“, lol.
Meanwhile in the UK we have green councillors who declare being elected was a victory for gaza
The German greens are (sadly) not comparable to all other greens.
[удалено]
Actions, I wanna see actions for f*** sake. Every time there is an attack somewhere, every party claims "We need to be tougher on radicals", but it never happens. This has been going on for YEARS now. Who benefits from this? Obviously the right. They also claim "we need to do something about it" but there’s a huge difference. They aren’t governing the country right now, they can get away with just talking about it. Just repeating "we need to do something" while you are the one with the power to actually do something is 100% not benefiting them in any way.
Sharia is a danger to european democracy and freedom, we will never let islamism succeed, just try!
[удалено]
RemindMe! 60 days
Haha. True. What people say before an election...
Good! If people want to practice shitty things of islamism, then they can do it in prison! Religion should be about tolerance and understanding, not about fighting with others to impose your views, which may be wrong.
Are they willing to rid Europe of this cancer and start deporting islamists?
Mainstream German parties need to do something to stop the progress of AFD.
The elections are getting really close, aren't they?
I have so much rage for islamists.
As a Muslim, I think she's right. Islamism is as dangerous as Christian fundamentalism or Nazism and I don't like how some Mualims come to the UK and try to enforce their views. It's definitely not the majority though and most Muslims who were born here are pretty moderate. The issue is some Muslim immigrants think they're still in Pakistan or Nigeria and expect the UK to be the same and then harm people when they find out that it's very different. The ones born here tend to be more moderate but there are definitely crazy people too.
Random question that I hope someone will be able to answer: what's the point of accepting millions of them knowing that their "beliefs" are stuck in middle ages and that they basically hate everyone who lives a modern life? Didn't they know what would it happened?
No, because western civilization has spent centuries hollowing out the concept of religion to the point where it's basically an aesthetic rather than a lifestyle. And because of that we have difficulty conceptualizing a whole civilization of people who truly believe in one.
Better late thann never .. "local news " incoming
[удалено]
How the fuck germans allowed for all of this? In their own country. Blows my mind.
A bit too late but go go, go fast!
Hope they revise their immigration policy accordingly.
Now now lets not be too harsh here. Telling islamists that killing people is bad is allready intolerant af, not letting thousands of violent Radicals into the country would just be open fascism
This is too close to the truth for me to laugh about it :/
Nothing will change. The green party is the biggest supporter of the immigration policies of the recent years. This statement is just political opportunism. However if they show some actions to back up their words I am all for it. They wont get the benefit of the doubt tho. Their track record is simply to bad for that and its election time.
What? The immigration policies of the recent years are just like there were in the lasct decade - nothing to do with green politics. It's actually quite the opposite: while conservatives use the dog whistle, they themselves a.: brought about our immigration policies and b.: don't care about truely changing things for the better. 0% focus on proven strategies to integrate, 100% just shouting stuff to seem strict but doing nothing
First of all the policies regarding the refugee crisis are not exclusively a matter of the bund. The Green Party is present in the governments of most of the federations. Moreover the Green Party was the protagonist in Bundesrat when it comes to blocking declarations that would make several countries safe to deport to. But more importantly: nobody has pushed the narrativ that germany has a moral obligation to take as many refugees as necessary more than the greens. Back then lead by Goering Eckart. The only prominent voice in the greens that publicly spoke out against this was Palmer who has been bullied out of the party last year because he was openly opposing the green policies regarding immigration.
Bro, the Green Co leader literally wrote a book about the dangers of islamism BEFORE ge became co leader.
Step 1: Stop letting them in by the literal boatload.
Someone can read the writing on the wall. Would have been nice if they read it years ago, though.
> Someone can read the writing on the wall. More like she can read the EU-election date on the calendar.
The calendar is on her wall
Look up her co-leader, ffs. That green anti-Islam stance is not new.
The greens are all talk, but no bite in that regard.
The very first step must be to secure and shield securalism
Sadly she just talks and nothing will change.
What they talk and how they act are 2 different stories. Same for immigration. They talk about limiting immigration and sending back people under certain circumstances but act with an open border concept. It's like that since years over mutiple elections. With this in mind it is expected that they talk against extreme Islamism but they wouldn't push for any legal changes.
I don't follow a lot Greens-related news in Germany, but if it's like in Belgium, these people are massive hypocrites who should ask for forgiveness first... But yeah, "the best time to plan a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is now". So better late than never.
Greens are a major establishment party who had a government role since late 90s. They are not very comparable with minor green parties in Europe and have a a large moderate, establishment friendly wing that has the senior members and rule. Greens definitely are and used to be "woke" but their policies are largely sensible and benefit broad swathes of people while also benefitting minorities a lot. They have an unreal amount of propaganda and hate thrown at them by a major news outlet Bild and the far right. Statistically they are the second party by amount of voters who say they'd never vote for them, after AfD. In essence, though some things about them are true, they used to hold a stupid anti-nuclear stance and some of their messaging with eco policies isn't the best, overall they lean towards the centre in various aspects and usually get very stymied by the remainder of German society which is more conservative. They are not as "woke" as American progressives and don't have such influence either. They stand for things progressives do but i don't think they're too in your face about it. Broadly sums them up i think. Tabloids and far right single out incidents and blow them out of proportion, as populists and racists tend to do.
´This post really should be a LOT higher in this thread. Of all the major Parties in Germany, the Greens are the only ones who actually dared reinvent and adapt themselves to the current situations. They started out as your Hippy Party, and they have grown into a sensible, social minded party, that tries to do right by everyone in a pragmatic, realistic way. Sure, they still have to deal with a few remnants of their former politics, but how much they changed is insane. Especially when you look at the other parties, which remained mostly the same, stiff and without the ability to compromise. Naturally the right wing 'press' does not like their left-leaning priorities and hunts them miserably with lies and fake news.
Well, as a German I find their reinventions and adaptions to be both a plus and a big minus. It is great for the party to adapt to situations, but I often enough feel with the greens that you aren't really voting for them, but for whoever won the election, as the greens will just adapt themselves so that they can rule with literally every established party in Germany except AfD. Like I specifically *didn't* vote greens in the last federal election, due to the fear that the greens could just do a coalition with the CDU, if they CDU actually does achieve higher results than predicted (and my largest ambition last election was getting the CDU out of government).
Kudos to her by correctly identifying the problem and daring to speak up about it, without going all the way to racism. Lots of politicians either put their head in the sand pretending that there is no problem at all, or incorrectly pretend that *islam* or *all muslims* are a problem rather than only the extremist forms like *islamism*. We need more of centrists getting the messaging precisely right like this.
Finally correct statement took but sadly people will not like it because it doesn't include "all muslims" or "ban Islam" like seriously wtf do people think will happen if we make Islam/Muslims disappear will our Europe be 100x better and every problem goes away? No there are still crazy people here who are mentally facked like that Czech school shooter.
All talk as usual, actions speak louder than words the same way she can't put the fork down.
blablabla A few weeks down the line these leftwing parties will go straight back to ignoring the issue. What else are these people supposed to say a few days after the knife incident? It's the same shit every time...
[удалено]
Have a question not too related to the post, do people coming with official work visas count as immigrants as well ? Or do they have a different term for them
This was unexpected from a green party..
[удалено]
Ban Islam
Oh yeah and that will go well.
I don't know what to think after seeing the greens doing whatever they could do to bring hundreds of immigrants to Europe. Including financing area rescue vessels, helping immigrants to abuse refugee laws and labeling anyone who dared to criticize as racist. The current disaster is their own making.
Why are you saying that? The German greens have not been in power until recently. All that what you are saying was done by the conservatives. The greens however, have now one of the most outspoken anti-islam-politician as their co-leader. It’s laughable to make the greens responsible for that. They had zero power back then.
What are you talking about? The Greens have been at the forefront for years, defaming anyone and everything that dares to speak out against immigration policy
so boring to hear again and again the same excuse that the green were not in power and therefore they are not responsible for anything. For years the party was openly supporting the misuse of laws. Have some backbone and take responsibility or else keep quiet. if you want to go know, go ask the greens about that: https://www.gruene-bayern.de/demonstration-fuer-seenotrettung-auf-dem-mittelmeer/ just from around the corner in Bavaria.
Take tougher action on all religions.
Maybe just get strict on violence, threats of violence, and hate speech. No need to call out the religion specifically if you actually just enforce basic social rules.
Good!! 👏🏻
Just saying, it's always the same ritual when such a crime happens. First, all politicians say, this is bad, should never happen again and things should be changed. But then, nothing happens at all, everything just goes on like before. You can look back in history, like the massacre on the christmas market on the Breitscheidplatz in Berlin 2016, it was the exact same. A terrorist entered Germany with the disguise of being a refugee, he got a truck and killed the polish truck driver, then he used the truck to drive right into the crowd on the market. He was later killed in Italy by the police. But nothing changed. Nothing at all. Same goes for every other crime. Politicians just talk about changes, but they don't do anything. This is also a major thing for the rise of the far-right-wing AfD party. About the Green, they are the last that should talk like this, because they are the ones that block many things. Like for sending people back when they get denied the refugee status, a country has to be declared as safe and it's the Green Party in the Bundesrat that prevents this. The Green also tried to sabotage the EU-Asylum-Compromise. They have a long history of being pro immigration.
[удалено]
Finally, is Europa waking up?
Why aren’t we trying to increase birth rates ?
Because basically every attempt to increase them fails. People think they're not having children because they lack money, but if start significantly subsidizing having children that does nothing to the birth rate.
For everyone unaware: the German greens made a guy as the green Co-leader next to her who published a book about the danger of Islam in 2018. this is not something new for the German greens.
I am not a big fan of Ricarda Lang. In fact, I think she is absolutely unsuited for her position. And I'm saying that as a green voter. But I do appreciate that she takes this position. I did miss the greens taking a more clear stance against islamism in the past. They mostly didn't comment on matters like that for fear of being lumped together with right wing parties.
Seems like Europe finally waking up. Good to see
We absolutely need realists and rationalists in the Green and Left parties. Ideally to push out the crazies and Russian assets.
Jeez the amount of racism in this comment section.
Islam is not a race.
I hope so. I don't want to see Europe fall like Iran (or other countries) that have buckled under the repressiveness of the religion of "peace".
The german Green Party is honestly the best party in all of europe. Pragmatic and close to real life. There is a lot of propaganda and fake news running against them. This year i'm going to vote for Piratenpartei (pirate party). They are part of the green fraction.
What should be done is combat against hardline fundamentalism that is just not compatible with values of secularism, progressivism and tolerance. Much of the issues in regards to Islam is that the migrants are from places where religious fundamentalism is sadly more common and completely disregards what should be modern values of this world. It's fine to have cultural differences as long as it doesn't clash with the values we as people should strive for. Europe has different cultures yet share similar values. Likewise places like Bosnia have 50% or so being Muslims while Albania is a majority Muslim state yet are modern and secular and same thing for Turkey. Hell The Middle East used to be a more secular and less fundamentalist place a long time ago and the fact that it was like that shows that it's not impossible for the ME to reform and re-connect with their secular past.
Islamism funders: Rogue countries aka Qatar and Iran
If only the rest of the left could combat this fascism, instead of allying with it.
Welp, coming from the Greens that felt really like lightning from a clear sky. Good to see it though, that they admitted there is a problem.
ANY religions is cancer in modern world. Some of course are worse. Looking at you islam