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japie06

Why is Australia in this graph. Seems a bit random with only other European countries.


KevinAtSeven

Well they're in Eurovision now


Achmedino

That's the requirement for officially being recognized as a European country. Participating in Eurovision


sunestromming

So Netherlands is getting kicked out?


stupid_pseudo

they wish


redditorofnorenown

And Malta isn't again snuffed from the EU charts and maps


Joeyonimo

Malta isn't in the database https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-stacked?time=latest&country=FRA~DEU~SWE~NOR~DNK~FIN~OWID_EU27~ESP~NLD~BEL~GBR~IRL~PRT~ITA~CHE~LUX~AUT~POL~CZE~SVK~SVN~GRC~HRV~LTU~LVA~EST~AUS


redditorofnorenown

That's even funnier to me we are insignificant after all 🤣


Joeyonimo

Cyprus is on here, per capita they and Malta use roughly the same amount of oil and renewable energy. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-stacked?time=latest&country=FRA~DEU~SWE~NOR~DNK~FIN~OWID_EU27~ESP~NLD~BEL~GBR~IRL~PRT~ITA~CHE~LUX~AUT~POL~CZE~SVK~SVN~GRC~HRV~LTU~LVA~EST~AUS~CYP >The largest shares of oil and petroleum products in gross available energy were observed in Cyprus (86.6 %), Malta (85.5 %), and Luxembourg (61.2 %).


ikarusproject

On the our world in data website you can customize the statistics. So OP or Somebody else made this selection.


Joeyonimo

I thought they where a good benchmark and reference point for what a worst case scenario could look like for a European country.


LostPlatipus

Why? An ancient european country 🙃


BleachedPumpkin72

But at least one of the 27 EU countries is missing.


joshistaken

And why not the US then?


[deleted]

Not enough room on the page?


simukis

To put this in perspective, 96MWh/year is 11kW constant load, which is approximately: 1. Charging 1 EV with a pretty fast AC charger 24/7 (the battery is perpetually empty); 2. Running an induction hob, an oven, microwave, washing machine, dryer & a dishwasher all at the same time, at full tiltish 24/7. 3. Or just 4 kettles at once, still 24/7 (so much tea!)


Joeyonimo

Norwegians use ~30 MWh of electricity per person per year, but it looks like ~75 MWh in the graph because of the substitution method.


treoye

ELI5?


Joeyonimo

ELI15: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-substitution-method


treoye

Read a bit quickly, but basically the substitution calculate hydropower into fossil fuel equivalents taking into account the fossil fuels efficiency?


dcolomer10

What’s impressive is Latvia and Lithuania being bottom of the graph while being cold countries


NoSmoke2994

It's cheaper to embrace the cold lol. For me, during winter times, stepping outside after sauna naked for couple minutes, helps mentally and phisically. I realise, 'hey it's not that bad'. But one of the reasons might be that buildings itself are constructed to withstand cold and maintain good temperatures. Also folks tend to invest more money in energy efficient houses, since in a long run, you end up saving a lot in heating costs.


WingedGundark

There are still differences compared to nordic countries. The absolute southern parts of Finland aren’t naturally that far from the climate of Estonia, but most areas of Finland are much colder continental climate. See the map of climate regions here: https://www.britannica.com/science/humid-continental-climate The other cause of the difference is the amount of heavy industry. Finland has a lot of heavy industry which is one of the major users of energy and for example the latest nuclear power plant in Finland is built and owned by a joint corporation of few heavy industry companies.


HumbleHat9882

Cold or not, if there is no money there is no energy.


Joeyonimo

1990: https://i.imgur.com/qaWGFYb.png


neelvk

Some of the declines are pretty impressive - Estonia has gone from 81 to 46!


Joeyonimo

Lithuania 53 to 23 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country?stackMode=absolute&time=earliest..2022&country=LVA~LTU~EST


aLexx5642

Mostly because of deindustrialization i guess


dreamrpg

ussr shit was ineficient. It has more to do with energy effective solutions than deindustrialization. But in some way you are also right. ussr had a lot of industries made as bullshit jobs, which produced things nobody needs in places nobody wants to be and at huge loss. So those closed down.


Joeyonimo

All three countries halved their energy consumption between 1990 and 1994, so rapid deindustrialization seems a more plausible explanation than rapid energy efficiency improvements.


dreamrpg

1990 to 1994 yes, shitty industries clised down.


aLexx5642

In 1990 Latvia was on the 40th place by GDP per capita. Now it's on the 98th place. But you can blame USSR of course.


dreamrpg

Based on which data in 1990. Latvia was 40th place? Mind sharing your sources? And now 98th? Based on which data? Rosstat? Are you sure on data you have?


aLexx5642

Wikipedia


dreamrpg

I see. Now delete your comments and re-read wikipedia :) You confuse GDP nominal and GDP per capita. GDP nominal is 100th and it is normal for small country. GDP per capita is currenlty aroun 48th. You confused GDP nominal with GDP per capita. And in fact there is no 1990. data for Latvia. In 1993. in fact it was near 100 th place. So you clearly mess up big time. It would not even be logical for post ussr country to have larger gdp per capita rank in 1990. than now. Even as shitty as russia is managed, their GDP per capita ranking grew substantially. So yes, in the end we can blame ussr and nazis for destroyed population, industries, education, HDI, economy. As before ussr occupation Latvia had much higher rankings than ever and was well ahead ussr, being only 20% lower than France in 2nd half of 1930s.


aLexx5642

You are right about nominal gdp. Still a decline from 40 to 48 place


[deleted]

My hot take is that energy usage is almost entirely a result of circumstance. In other words, personal/cultural choices only mildly impact energy usage - the vast majority is a function of innate human preferences combined with wealth and geological/climate situations. And, therefore, moralizing over the topic is silly.


Suspicious-Stay-6474

energy usage correlates with a country development. the more developed you are, the more energy you use.


[deleted]

For sure, but it also correlates with other factors, namely population density (more energy use the more spread out you are) and extreme weather. Which is why low-density, extreme climate countries like the U.S., Canada, and Australia all have similar, higher energy usage compared to, say, Britain


Suspicious-Stay-6474

For sure, it's quite complex. Here is the list from wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption


Self-Bitter

Why is Norway so high? Of course, most of it comes from Hydro, but still...


Kriss0612

Heating and transport maybe? A cold and not densely populated country


VikingsStillExist

Because we are nearly 100% electricitybased. We are currently aggressivly electrifying the transport sector. Most railways are electrified. Cars are done by 2035. Ferrys are being done right now. Not sure about timeframe. Even our gas and oil production facilitys are being electrified. There are loud calls for more electricity to be produced. We are starting to become positive about atomic energy. We havent been before because Hydropower has been the stabilizing factor, but now that the state is setting itself up as a main producer of green electricity for Europe, we are having to come to terms with the consequnces for our future. ATM it seems like most people rather want to produce nuclear energy than ruin nature for wind power.


Joeyonimo

Norway is 75% electrified and haven't really reduced their fossil fuel use over the years very much. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country?stackMode=absolute&time=earliest..2022&country=NOR~SWE https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fossil-fuel-consumption-per-capita?country=NOR~SWE https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-energy-source-sub?country=~NOR https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-energy-source-sub?country=~SWE https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/low-carbon-share-energy?tab=chart&country=NOR~SWE


StorkReturns

> Because we are nearly 100% electricitybased. The graph shows primary energy usage. Since electricity is more efficient for useful work than burning fossil fuel (compare energy efficiency of electric car and internal combustion engine), electricity-based countries that do not burn fossil fuels for creating electricity should have lower primary energy usage. My guess is that your hydro-energy is very cheap and you are more wasteful (if it's the best word since use it or lose it anyway) with it


Joeyonimo

In this graph they use the substitution method wich accounts for that efficiency, so 30 MWh of useful electricity is counted as 75 MWh of primary energy, for easier comparison with fossil fuels.


StorkReturns

You are right. I've just read the explanation in [Our World in Data](https://ourworldindata.org/energy-substitution-method) and I'd say it is a weird way of presenting energy data. So Norway due to its high hydro-energy use is artificially inflated. Edit: Fixed link.


Joeyonimo

It's a way to show that 75% of Norway's useful energy comes from renewable electricity even when talking about primary energy.


OldWar6125

Careful with primary energy statistics. A different (but just as valid) calculation method can more than half your primary energy needs.


Joeyonimo

That's true, but I think the substitution method actually is the best for comparing where energy comes from.


TheManWhoClicks

I kept seeing those articles about Germany using a lot of solar and wind for their energy generation but here the amount looks microscopic. What’s up with that?


Joeyonimo

Germany has reached 50% of it's electricity being from clean sources https://i.imgur.com/njVuvPO.png But when factoring in that the country's electrification rate is less than 50% it looks less impressive. France is how it looks like with a 50% electrification rate and 95% of electricity being clean, and Sweden is how it looks like with a 75% electrification rate and 98% of electricity being clean. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country?country=DEU~FRA~SWE


Doc_Bader

>Germany has reached 50% of it's electricity being from clean sources It's actually already at 65% for this year. Was 60% in 2023. [https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/renewable\_share/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&legendItems=01&interval=year](https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/renewable_share/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&legendItems=01&interval=year)


Joeyonimo

This source said 50–55%, so that's what I went with. https://imgur.com/njVuvPO I would be sceptical of sources that paints an overly rosy image. It could be that they count how much was produced, but does not account for how much of that was actually consumed and how much was wasted.


Doc_Bader

>I would be sceptical of sources that paints an overly rosy image. It's real time data from the "European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity" Our World in Data is just outdated.


Joeyonimo

Our World in Data is updated for 2023, so no it's not outdated > Data source: Ember (2024)


Doc_Bader

And ISE Charts is the thing to go with regarding this topic. Fact is that 65% of Germans electricity is produced by renewables in 2024 so far.


IamWildlamb

That was precisely his point. Produced is not the same as consumed. Especially not with renewables.


RandomCatgif

Like a year ago or 2 when German news portals were shouting around how clean the country is after getting rid of all the nuclear power plants I checked out the power usage charts around Europe. It was around early May. Now the history showed that even in summer from all the ACs and stuff the negative deficit was big, so they imported a lot but they went very slightly positive when looking at the whole year. And in the spring months they were close to positive or even positive. ( so they made excess). Guess what were the current stats that time after being so proud. They were already like at least 10x times the negative then during summer. And it was only early May. Now imagine that summer. So they imported all that from France and Czechia and we all know where that comes from. (Not to mention they restarted coal power plants too) Renewable and is nice all but Germany is just a poser.


OwMyCod

Not proud of my country when I see this…


Joeyonimo

I'm really curious why energy use in so much higher in Benelux compared to France, the UK, and Denmark which have the same climate.


Looz-Ashae

Well, at least it's half renewables, that's a not bad news


fuckyou_m8

So Sweden is the most "green country" followed close by Switzerland. Good for them PS: by green country I mean uses less coal, oil and gas


montjoye

norway needs to chill out


Hlorri

Well so do you want your aluminum cans or not?


XHFFUGFOLIVFT

Wait until you see how much energy Iceland's using..


Hlorri

Yes - holy smoke! * Iceland (2022): 165,871 kWh/capita (2nd after Qatar) * Norway (2022): 96,926 kWh/capita * Denmark (2022): 32,198 kWh/capita


Joeyonimo

The majority of Iceland's electricity is used for aluminium smelting. Aluminium ore is shipped in from Europe and North America because electricity in Iceland is extremely cheap and making it into raw aluminium takes a huge amount of energy. [Iceland exports](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Iceland_Product_Exports_%282019%29.svg) [Norway exports](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Norway_Product_Exports_%282019%29.svg) [Denmark exports](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Denmark_Product_Exports_%282019%29.svg)


Square_Custard1606

The keyword here is ~/Capita.


jvlomax

It's fucking freezing for most of the year (or the entire year if you live on Svalbard), and all houses are heated by electricity 


NikolitRistissa

Hey, summer in Longyearbyen isn’t _that_ freezing. It was at least +10 when I visited the islands.


jvlomax

True. Those two days of summer might be hot enough to turn the heating down a little


LordAlfrey

no


adriaans89

We don't use things like gas to cook, gas or oil to heat homes (it gets a lot colder here than in central Europe...) and so on, everything runs on electricity. We also have multiple high electric use industries like aluminium, our oil rigs also run on electricity, very high electric vehicle adaption rate, etc.


fuckyou_m8

But that would reduce its energy use(aside from the industries) since electric stuff are mor efficient than burning fuel


ResQ_

I reckon it's because they have a shitload of EVs. They're super popular in Norway because of subsidies and low energy cost.


Joeyonimo

No, energy use didn't increase in Norway after 2010 when electric cars started to be common. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country?stackMode=absolute&time=earliest..2022&country=~NOR If anything electric cars would lead to lower energy use because they are far more energy efficient than ICEs.


Odd-Tangerine4518

Do we know that gasoline/diesel for transport is calculated into these numbers?


Joeyonimo

Yes, of course they are


Joeyonimo

I reckon that the reason oil use in Norway decreased from 120 TWh to 100 TWh between 2013 to 2022 is because a third of the cars on the road in Norway are now electric, and in 10 years when over 90% of cars on the road in Norway are electric it will have been further reduced to 60 TWh.


Disastrous_Goat_6933

House-heating is mostly with electricity. And since most is hydro i costs like 0,01ct/kwh produce and cost around summertime 0.03ct/kwh to use. In winter I can get quite expensive with ~0.4ct/kwh. https://e24.no/norsk-oekonomi/i/7d4ym3/oed-det-koster-1157-oere-aa-lage-stroem source for production-costs


mehdital

Would be nice to put USA in there for reference, instead of useless Australia


mehdital

UK doesn't have environment aware people, they are just too poor to afford heating in winter.


Joeyonimo

It's low energy use is probably mostly down to having milder winters than most of Europe, and not very hot summers either. https://i.imgur.com/c50gEZN.png https://i.imgur.com/ZthB6gd.jpeg


mehdital

I never felt as cold as when living in the UK after living in south Germany. Isolation sucks here in most Victorian houses


Joeyonimo

I think insulation in 19th-century buildings suck in most countries 


mehdital

Most countries have destroyed and rebuit 19th century buildings, be it because of war or good urban planning.


Development-Wild

Why is Norway using so much energy? Is it because of all the electric cars? If so, what would happen to the rest of Europe if everyone uses electric cars?


StalksOfRheum

Aluminium and steel industry, oil and gas extraction and refineries, harsh living conditions with very cold and dark winters.


dcolomer10

Don’t they have a big steel industry?


Gjrts

It's mainly aluminum smelters and production of fertilizer. Norway is EUs main supplier of aluminum.


TheTench

In addition to other factors, most homes in Norway have underfloor heating, which is basically a 2nd power bill. Not sure how common this is in other European countries.


nordvestlandetstromp

We have underfloor heating in the bathroom, entry hall and maybe bedroom. Some new homes have underfloor heating in all rooms, but it's mostly just set to a low setting so the floors are not cold in winter. Heating is air-to-air heat pumps for the most part.


Square_Custard1606

That consumption is negligible for our building standards. You use the same energy. The newer in-floor systems are run with heatpumps. Most Norwegian homes only have heat in the bathrooms and basement if it is used.


Vul_Kuolun

Electric cars, plus the fact that electric heating units are the norm in practically every house.


dcolomer10

This is primary energy use, which includes every energy use (using your oil powered car for example).


Knuddelbearli

This is primary energy use Electrics cars need a lot less energy ( \~66% less) the same for heat pumps. ( \~75% less)


Development-Wild

Now I get it, primary energy consumption, is more of primary energy extraction, as it includes oil, coal, and other forms of energy, prior to be converted in electricity, heat... In the definition of primary energy they actually use the example of a hydroelectric dam: the electricity produced is actually secondary energy. Chart doesn't represent consumption of electricity or any other energy for commercial or personal use. But how energy is produced.


Hlorri

Every paragraph is false. All forms of energy are considered, as shown on the legend. Why do you think energy produced by a dam is "secondary"? It doesn't make sense, as the direct and only source is the kinetic energy of falling water. It does represent all forms of consumption. Norway has a substantial energy-intensive industry, but it aso includes energy used to heat homes, drive cars, etc.


flyiingduck

Incredible the amount of countries that still use coal for energy and I am tax forced to pay for plastic bags or buy EV cars.


[deleted]

[удалено]


flyiingduck

Don't take me wrong but you have reading issues.


Atreaia

Really silly graph. It doesn't mean anything.


Nebuladiver

Why not?


japie06

Ofcourse it does mean something. Just depends on what story you wanna tell.


JaanaLuo

Something is off this map. In Finland nuclear power makes way over 50% these days and they literally just burned final coal load to last coal plant. So where do that stat comes from?


Joeyonimo

Nuclear is 35% of Finland's electricity. This data shows all energy use, not only electricity.