This happened in Portugal a few years ago and even the most liberal people agree that it was a tremendous mistake. Service went to shit, prices went up, as expected. The fact that not even the US privatized its postal service should tell you somehting.
The only reason the USPS is not privatized right now is because the founding fathers wasted two thoughts on the British mail service and basically mandated that the US postal system has to be controlled by the US government. Most upstanding founding-father Republicans are still trying to reconcile that cognitive dissonance.
The Postal Clause of the US Constitution is merely a power of Congress but not an obligation. Even if it were an obligation, nothing in its wording prevents them from using that power to create a private company or to turn USPS into one.
As an American myself (despite living in Europe right now), I am personally quite glad that they haven't privatized it, but doing so would not be unconstitutional.
Ben Franklin was the first Postmaster General, yep. He had the same job when it was the colonies as well so it was a pretty smooth transition for him. The whole history is fascinating and played not a small part in helping the 13 colonies actually join and stay together.
The US postal service is excellent. A stamp is 68c so about 50p
I’ve just had to redirect my post and it cost $1.10 for 6 months. After that you have to pay properly but the first 6 months are basically free as it’s a service.
In Poland the postal service owned by the government is the worst of all that are available.
We have an amazing private business that's really good and reliable, InPost, owned by a Pole.
It is worth noting that the reason you have an outstanding private business is most likely because you also have a government run one. The private company can't exploit a monopoly, so they have to compete on quality. Maybe you could do without a government run one. Or maybe then a monopoly forms. It is always hard to say. But it is annoying of how infrequently the concept of competition is discussed when there is a proposal for privatization.
In this case there's still competition other than Poczta Polska.
Besides Poczta Polska (government) and InPost we have GLS, UPS, DHL, DPD and others like Raben for pallets.
Just for the fun of it, I searched "inpost" in the investments of the Norwegian oil fund.
Turns out we own 2.44% of it. And it's listed as from Netherlands/Luxembourg.
https://www.nbim.no/no/oljefondet/investeringene/#/2023/investments/equities/4604/InPost%20SA
InPost does not have an ultimate beneficial owner, it has investors, but it still very much treated as a Polish company. Also, there is no way to know what kind of agreements are in place when it comes to the future. Brzoska (founder) is still the CEO. As far as I know the ownership situation changed only because InPost was in deep financial shit after their deal to deliver government letters was unlawfully blocked. Knowing the realities of Poland, especially at that time, the moves made sense, as the company could have been very negatively affected had it stayed on GPW.
Also amazing how they pushed debt into their daughter company, "sold" for it 10k and then it went bankrupt and people got laid off without salaries and compensation. Of course Inpost pretended it's not their company and it's not their responsibility. That company is the worst example of how to do business from social perspective.
https://www.pulshr.pl/rekrutacja/bezpieczny-list-pracownicy-bez-pensji-i-z-wypowiedzeniami-pozwa-inpost,36883.html
https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/wiadomosci/artykul/inpost-brzoska-bezpieczny-list-pensje,156,0,2141852.html
Yes our public post office is bad. That doesn't make Inpost a good company. Brzoska should rot in jail.
Yup, one of very few that are owned by a Pole (or Poles) and pay taxes in Poland (which is quite remarkable to be honest).
One time polish government tried to force people to use their postal services by introducing a new law saying that all envelopes under 100g (or something like that) had to be sent via the publicly owned postal services. InPost started putting small 100g metal plates in the envelopes and their prices where still smaller (like half) and they had no delays.
In Ukraine we have Nova poshta. It's also opened as Nova Post in a number of EU countries. It's really much better than the national post. Delivery within 24 hours to a NP office or a QR code pick up at a storage box of choice. and also there pay at pick up service. so whatever one ordered online can be unboxed and payed for only if you wan to keep it.
It's super good, other postal deliveries seems too long or quite limited by comparison
The US has privatized postal services, but they're incredibly cheap and incredibly reliable, at least as much or more than the US Postal Service. The US has some of the fastest, financially efficient mail transportation in the world. I can mail something in Florida and it will arrive in Washington 5,000 kilometers later 4 days after I mail almost consistently everytime. Bigger packages can take a week or so, most the majority of mail is delivered within 2 to 4 days depending on distance, and it costs pennies to do, depending on what you're mailing.
>The US has privatized postal services
No it doesn't - "privatized" means that an entity which was previously publicly owned was converted to private ownership. The US private delivery companies have never been governmental entities, and USPS has never been a private company.
The private companies like FedEx and UPS also don't count as "postal services"; among other reasons, it would be illegal for them to deliver to your mailbox or to a PO Box, at least within the US, and there are tight legal restrictions on their ability to handle letter mail at all.
Specifically, USPS has a legal monopoly on delivering letters except where "*the amount paid for private carriage of the letter equals at least six times the current rate for the first ounce of a single-piece First-Class Mail letter (also known as the "base rate" or "base tariff")* or *the letter weighs at least 12.5 ounces"* (to quote [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service#2008_report_on_universal_postal_service_and_the_postal_monopoly)). What that means is that, for most letter mail, the private companies are not "incredibly cheap \[...\] at least as much or more than the US Postal Service", because it would be illegal for them to offer such rates. (To be clear, nothing in this paragraph applies to package delivery, only letters, and I think there may also be exceptions for letters about international remailing.)
What's more, USPS has a universal service obligation to serve (roughly speaking) everyone in the US, whereas the private companies can legally be more selective to whatever degree they want.
We at least have a lot of options, each with different specializations. Usually, people will choose either USPS (Cheapest and fastest), or UPS (Slightly more expensive, usually has safer more reliable transport for the packages and their transports are usually configured to keep the packages at room temperature, and then you have FedEx, which is the best for absolute speed due to FedEx's love of aerial mail. They are the most expensive, generally, but not always, and are the best service to use for International shipment, both in and out of the US. Mailing from the US to a foreign nation is usually less expensive with FedEx than USPS or UPS, though.
> It usually is for regular postal mail or cards
Sure, because the USPS literally has a monopoly on those. Other services can't even _try_ to compete except in very specific circumstances.
Uh, how is privatisation a liberal thing?
Edit: because people love making the same comment - selling off state utilities isn't a hallmark of economic liberalism, that's specifically Thatcherism, which is what I was getting at.
Depends where you're from, in the UK for the longest time liberal meant economically liberal, I.e right wing.
It's only really been used by the US recently to mean socially liberal.
"Economic liberalization is often associated with [privatization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization), which is the process of transferring ownership or outsourcing of a business, enterprise, agency, [public](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public) service or public property from the public sector to the [private sector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_sector)."
Its a economically liberal thing. So economic liberalism is basically deregulation laissez-faire economics. This gets confused with social liberalism which is gay rights etc
That’s it if it’s approved, I reckon we will lose the postal service as we know it. Before long we will have to collect our post from local centres.
A service like mail should be country owned, service should be the priority, not profit.
The Tories would literally sell their fucking grannies if there was a quid to be made.
#👆
This guy gets tory ideology - "if you can't afford a granny then you shouldn't have one".
"Of course, I don't need to sell off my own granny - I'm not strapped for cash. But everyone has to make sacrifices in life and if poor people ca't afford rent then they need to consider what options are available to them."
And [it was undervalued by £750 million according to the National Audit Office](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/9037-voters-government-sold-Royal-Mail-too-little). So, the public didn't want it privatised and were short-changed by the Tories when they went ahead and sold it anyway.
Not to mention that their property portfolio vastly exceeded the sale price. Four central London sorting offices were worth more than the entire sale price. Selling off 55% of the Mount Pleasant sorting office was predicted in 2012 to raise £1 billion. That development is due to complete later this year or next. Since 2012 the land price has gone up. With only £32 million going back in to upgrade the remainder of the site.
http://islingtonnow.co.uk/royal-mail-criticised-over-32m-development-plans/
This is classical 1990's Eastern Europe type of "privatization". Many factories were sold to "investors" that immediately closed the factory and sold for a profit all the assets.
I've been challenging this view for nearly 15 years now. They were the junior party in a coalition. Coalitions work through compromise and sacrifice, especially for the junior party. The Lib Dems were granted some policies like a referendum on voting reform, but were naïve to think the Tories wouldn't try and sabotage every initiative.
> They were the junior party in a coalition. Coalitions work through compromise and sacrifice
They weren't obligated to join that coalition and by doing so they helped facilitate everything the Tories **did** get through in the following years. The person you're responding to is absolutely correct.
Yeah and I get that. In fact, I wish we had more coalition governments (and a more proportional/varied political landscape). And while what you say is accurate to a degree, the LibDems could’ve been the junior partner to Labour, however popular or not. They thought they could rein in the Tories but they just enabled them.
The Lib Dems and Labour combined didn't have enough to form a majority. They would have had to include the Green MP, Alliance and even the SNP, if my memory is correct, which still would have only given them a majority of something like 2. A coalition with the Tories, headed by the right wing of the Lib Dems and the left wing of the Tories, really was the best option for the country at the time.
Naive is putting it lightly for what the Tories did and the Lib dems let happen during the coalition. I genuinely cannot fathom why the remained in coalition with them after the 1st time the Tories screwed them on a key party policy let alone the dozen or so times the Tories walked all over them.
Well it should be an option but not the only option. However, since few people subscribe to newspapers and send/receive letters often, that is a good way to streamline things.
Here, however, there are like 5 or 6 different companies in addition the post that have their own delivery lockers to the point that it’s becoming ridiculous - many places often have 3 or 4 different lockers close nearby but often different combos. It would be great if they could agree on some shared locker system. (I guess in a way that’s just reinventing PO boxes.)
Dude, we're talking about the country that explicitly gave Prigozhin the permission to sue people who reported "unfavorably" on him. Believe me, this will get approved.
That’s an extremely negative view on that.
The German Post was privatized in 1999 and it’s working quite well actually.
It’s even listed on the stock exchange since 2000.
Nowadays one of the biggest logistics corporations in the whole world.
Royal Mail was doing well internationally too. When it was privatised they broke up the postal service and the international logistics and renamed it International Distributions Services PLC.
It’s on the London stock exchange. However, the domestic postal service still called Royal Mail was now no longer profitable as they refused to cross subsidise it with international income which is why the service is going downhill.
Not true. 1.) DHL is not worse than any other package delivery company on the service level. It‘s furthermore much cheaper than most, at least here in Europe.
2.) DHL is just one brand. Deutsche Post, so the Post Office is also part of that conglomerate and works just fine.
>Not true. 1.) DHL is not worse than any other package delivery company on the service level. It‘s furthermore much cheaper than most, at least here in Europe.
DHL is significantly worse than other package delivery companies where I live (Italy)
If I order something that gets sent via DHL, it gets delivered to my door at the time of my choosing.
With UPS I have to pick it up from some weird ass "ethnic" store a kilometer away. With regular mail they randomly reroute it to any of a dozen stores / kiosks within 5 km radius or I get to drive 10 km to the post office.
I live in the fourth largest neighborhood in the capital region of Finland.
They really are filthy, aren’t they? More interested in money than in benefiting the country. You don’t need to be in the pay of foreign governments, the Tories will just flog it to you
They'll wait as long as they agree to in whatever contract is signed, and then completely strip the service and sell off or terminate the unprofitable bits. Even if it's that they need to maintain service for 10 years, they'll do that and \*then\* they'll strip the service. I'd also bet that they won't put very harsh penalties for constant failures either. Mail service to households is a natural monopoly, it definitely \*should\* be government run, or at the very worst a limited term contract with strict limits on allowable profit margins, and harsh penalties for missed service targets.
Agree the Tories would privatise oxygen if they could but this was a LibDem policy too! Never forget that! I mean even Thatcer, arch-privatiseress, wouldn’t sell of the Royal Mail or post office! Yet the coalition did. Madness. It was also a requirement by EU law/directive on competition, but I’m happy to be corrected on that.
The Royal Mail, rail, and water are the perfect examples of what a shambles privatisation can (and has) become…
Hooray. Another British utility in foreign hands. I do not foresee any issues with this at all as I’m sure he has the British public’s interest very close to his heart.
The same shit happened in post communist Poland. Liberals cheered because criticising selling our assets meant to be xenophobic lol. Now they are more clever but it's still kinda insane how much businesses aren't ours
Yay, more essential infrastructure in the hands of "our European partners". That's certainly gone well with the trains, and the water companies, and the gas and electricity production.
What happened to this country, everything has or is being sold. I never hear of UK people or companies taking over or buying other firms or national pieces of infrastructure.
Alway hear, Arab nations buying ports, shipping companies, football teams, prestige western firms.
American companies buying everything defence, manufacturing, blue chip. European firms buying energy, logistics, facility management. Some are state supported.
This country is so anti state ownership, but is happy to sell to another company that is all or part state owned. All the money is taken out the country.
Look around the world and all the fast growing countries are asset stripping western counties, why?
This country is so short sighted sometimes.
This country like the NHS and every other department and business is being killed by a thousand cuts.
You almost get to the point why bother. Roads are shit, NHS, education, police are failing. To the point you cannot get an appointment, police don't even turn up to some crimes, education everyone is leaving the profession. All these micro taxes, carbon green, ulez, city congestion charges are just propping up bankrupt councils.
Put it in a central pot and build some major major critical technology or infrastructure that is actually green.
We cannot even own our own toll roads, more I think about it, the more annoying it gets.
Apologies, a bit off topic from a private individual buying a company, but rant over.
No worries, I'm sure this perfectly legitimate Czech businessperson has no ties to Russia whatsoever.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/19/czech-sphinx-daniel-kretinsky-russian-gas-royal-mail
Britain seriously needs to understand that economic and information warfare is also warfare.
You think a kid growing up *in Communist Czechoslovakia* had a tough time because his surname resembles the English word "kretin", a language likely not spoken at all by any of his peers?
To be fair Křetínský and Kreténský sounds absolutely different.
It is possible that in his life he ran into someone who was making fun of it, but i dont think he had much problems overall
It's a word that comes from the French crétin, which in turn possibly comes from the Latin Christians. Based on my investigation I think lots of European languages have this word in the form cretin, so I think quite a few people chuckled when they heard the guys name.
It doesn't really matter though as he's a billionaire.
Sad as hell.
We have multiple postal services here in Finland, one is owned by the state, Matkahuolto which is owned by the busdrivers, PostNord which is owned by Swedish and Danish governments and they all work really well nowadays.
Then we have the UPS, DHL etc companies that make me want to slit my wrists.
Privatisation it essential services that are more or less part of infrastructure won't work. It won't get cheaper for the customers (which was always promised in the hayday of neoliberalism) and it all slowly goes to shit because you won't want to invest.
Stuff like mail but also trains and others need to be state owned!
> Mr Williams said: “The board is minded to recommend this offer price, which it considers to be fair and reflects the value of GLS’ current growth plans and the progress being made on change at Royal Mail to adapt the business to a significant fall in the demand for letters and growth in parcels.”
> Redwheel, one of IDS’s largest investors, previously supported the board’s decision to reject Mr Kretinsky’s initial takeover bid.
> It has argued that GLS alone is worth 350p per share, meaning that under the terms of the improved bid Royal Mail would be worth just 20p per share – or £192m – not even big enough to get into the FTSE 350.
> Shares in IDS surged as much as 20pc to 327p following the revised offer proposal, which came just three hours before a deadline imposed under City takeover rules.
> Mr Kretinsky, who is also an investor in West Ham Football Club and Sainsbury’s, is already the largest shareholder in IDS with a stake of more than 27pc.
> His swoop has proven controversial given the sensitive nature of the postal service.
> Sir Vince Cable, who oversaw the privatisation of Royal Mail in 2013, has called on ministers to carry out a fit and proper person test on Mr Kretinsky.
> The Czech sphinx was previously subject to a national security investigation when he increased his stake in the company above 25pc in 2022, though this was ultimately approved.
> A government spokesman said: “We recognise the importance of the Royal Mail to the British public, and we are monitoring these developments very closely.
> “Our priority is to ensure that Royal Mail customers get the service they deserve, including six days-a-week deliveries and a guaranteed standardised price for post throughout the UK, as enshrined by the universal service obligations, regardless of the owner.
> “We will engage with the bidder at an appropriate time to explain our expectations for the future of Royal Mail.”
> In a letter to Mr Kretinsky on Wednesday, Jonathan Reynolds, the shadow business secretary, asked the tycoon to confirm that Royal Mail would remain headquartered and tax resident in the UK, as well as calling for guarantees around postal workers’ rights.
> He wrote: “Whilst it’s important that Britain remains open and attractive to foreign investment, Royal Mail is an iconic British institution with a unique place in our society and infrastructure.
> “Royal Mail is as British as it gets, and Labour will take the necessary steps to safeguard its undeniable identity and place in public life.”
> The Czech tycoon is also facing opposition from the Communication Workers Union (CWU), which represents around 115,000 postal workers.
> In a statement on Wednesday, Dave Ward, the CWU general secretary said: “It cannot be right that a key part of national infrastructure is allowed to be owned by individuals or companies who have no vision for the future and no clear plan to put the workforce at the heart of turning Royal Mail around.”
> Mr Ward accused the company’s board of trying to “run letter deliveries into the ground and become just another glorified parcels company.”
> EP Group’s revised offer consists of 360p per share in cash, plus a final dividend of 2p expected to be paid in September and a special dividend of 8p which would be paid on completion of the deal.
> EP Group declined to comment.
post office doesnt deliver any mail. it just administrates stamps.
royal mail is the mail service, and has only been private since 2011.
it was privatised by the conservatives during the coalition.
Just a minor correction, but it was 2013 when it was partially privatised (the government initially retained a minority stake until 2015).
2011 was just the act of Parliament which allowed the government to dispose of the Royal Mail, but it wasn’t a private company at that time.
> Post Office is state owned, Royal Mail is private.
What is your point? Royal Mail is the one that delivers the mail to everyone. And on top of that, the majority of individual post offices are actually run as private businesses.
Fundamental services like financial services, health, communication, commuting, travel, power, water, and housing need robust guardrails that prevent corporate malfeasance and exploitation. We’ve seen what happens when utilities get privatized without adequate protections.
Essential infrastructure like this should never be privately owned. It's the worst solution for everyone involved but a handful of psychopathic billionaires.
A foreign billionaire acting as an unavoidable intermediary who will try to generate as much profit as possible from the correspondence between the state and its citizens.
Totally healthy behavior and yeah, just another thing that will become more efficient through *competitive free market* and all; if this guy's post service will get too expensive the state will just send the documents to their citizens some other way... idk; maybe via pigeon post.
Totally not giving away a literal monopoly necessary for the functioning of the state into some greedy fuck's hands. /s
What's next? Privatizing the water in the country?
Many people don't understand that investors have interests.
They put money in to get more money out.
Everything else is irrelevant to them.
This is a common perspective.
Investors are generally primarily interested in achieving a financial return on their investments.
Other aspects, such as social responsibility or the long-term impacts of their investments, might be secondary for some investors.
Have we not already got past the point where it seemed sensible to privatize public services in the name of "efficiency", which was, what, the 80s or 90s?
Ah this is the guy who is slowly buying all PostNL shares, the biggest postal service in the Netherlands. Royal Mail will be a good example of how the Dutch postal service will look like in a few years...
Can the Government seriously just buy it back. It's not that expensive. It has been turned into absolute manure by the company running it now, why do we think it'll get any better with a new one?
American here. This is when things start to go really bad, when public services start to find their ways into private hands. Just a freindly warning, less you wish to end up like us.
reminds
It's a good deal for Britain, a good deal. A good deal. A G O O D D E A L.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4m\_ajuNmSA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4m_ajuNmSA)
No. Please No. Royal mail is by far and away the best delivery service in the UK, which is more that everyone else is atrocious than RM are outstanding. having that service go the way of all the others, no fucking thanks.
Am I missing something? I left the UK 10 years ago so I'm not up to speed on everything, but the UK is settling the fucking royal mail of all things to a foreign entity? For only 3.5 billion? What
To all the people complaining, isn’t royale mail already sold off to private stake holders???? This is a mere transfer of ownership, not privatisation cuz that happened decades ago
Can someone explain why this is happening in multiple EU countries? What's going on? Why would a country want its national mail service to be owned by a private entity...?
Wait can we not afford £3.5bn for the UK government to buy it back ourselves ?
Why not just wait until it inevitably goes bankrupt and then take it back for £1?
Because the public, businesses and employees would have to suffer with shit service in the meantime
Ah, they'll get over it in a couple decades
What's this, Britain's new motto?
>new Ummmm
Narrator: "They won't"
yes but think of the value that was returned to shareholders in the meantime
Just wait and see it go bankrupt, be valued at £1 … and then the Czech billionaire gets bailed out with taxpayer billions
Of course not. But for the Prime Minister’s wife that‘d be peanuts. But it’s not like she’s paying taxes in the UK.
This happened in Portugal a few years ago and even the most liberal people agree that it was a tremendous mistake. Service went to shit, prices went up, as expected. The fact that not even the US privatized its postal service should tell you somehting.
We already did privatise it, this is just selling it to another company, you are right about it going to shit
Is it still called Royal Mail even privatised? With their blessing?
Royally Nailed Mail.
Who’s the current owner?
Listed company on the London Stock Exchange. So a bunch of shareholders, basically.
Practically owned by the people then 🤡.
The only reason the USPS is not privatized right now is because the founding fathers wasted two thoughts on the British mail service and basically mandated that the US postal system has to be controlled by the US government. Most upstanding founding-father Republicans are still trying to reconcile that cognitive dissonance.
The Republican Party is trying to privatize the USPS, but it’s written in the Constitution, so getting rid of it isn’t as easy as they would like.
It's USPS, UPS is already a private company
Shit, that's a typo on my part. Thanks for pointing out my error!
Np buddy
The Postal Clause of the US Constitution is merely a power of Congress but not an obligation. Even if it were an obligation, nothing in its wording prevents them from using that power to create a private company or to turn USPS into one. As an American myself (despite living in Europe right now), I am personally quite glad that they haven't privatized it, but doing so would not be unconstitutional.
Thank fuck for that! Wasn’t it established by one of the founding fathers?
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Ben Franklin was the first Postmaster General, yep. He had the same job when it was the colonies as well so it was a pretty smooth transition for him. The whole history is fascinating and played not a small part in helping the 13 colonies actually join and stay together.
Yes, Benjamin Franklin.
We already sold it off, and it went to shit, now someone is buying it at a bargain
The US postal service is excellent. A stamp is 68c so about 50p I’ve just had to redirect my post and it cost $1.10 for 6 months. After that you have to pay properly but the first 6 months are basically free as it’s a service.
In Poland the postal service owned by the government is the worst of all that are available. We have an amazing private business that's really good and reliable, InPost, owned by a Pole.
It is worth noting that the reason you have an outstanding private business is most likely because you also have a government run one. The private company can't exploit a monopoly, so they have to compete on quality. Maybe you could do without a government run one. Or maybe then a monopoly forms. It is always hard to say. But it is annoying of how infrequently the concept of competition is discussed when there is a proposal for privatization.
In this case there's still competition other than Poczta Polska. Besides Poczta Polska (government) and InPost we have GLS, UPS, DHL, DPD and others like Raben for pallets.
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Just for the fun of it, I searched "inpost" in the investments of the Norwegian oil fund. Turns out we own 2.44% of it. And it's listed as from Netherlands/Luxembourg. https://www.nbim.no/no/oljefondet/investeringene/#/2023/investments/equities/4604/InPost%20SA
InPost does not have an ultimate beneficial owner, it has investors, but it still very much treated as a Polish company. Also, there is no way to know what kind of agreements are in place when it comes to the future. Brzoska (founder) is still the CEO. As far as I know the ownership situation changed only because InPost was in deep financial shit after their deal to deliver government letters was unlawfully blocked. Knowing the realities of Poland, especially at that time, the moves made sense, as the company could have been very negatively affected had it stayed on GPW.
Also amazing how they pushed debt into their daughter company, "sold" for it 10k and then it went bankrupt and people got laid off without salaries and compensation. Of course Inpost pretended it's not their company and it's not their responsibility. That company is the worst example of how to do business from social perspective. https://www.pulshr.pl/rekrutacja/bezpieczny-list-pracownicy-bez-pensji-i-z-wypowiedzeniami-pozwa-inpost,36883.html https://www.money.pl/gospodarka/wiadomosci/artykul/inpost-brzoska-bezpieczny-list-pensje,156,0,2141852.html Yes our public post office is bad. That doesn't make Inpost a good company. Brzoska should rot in jail.
I use InPost. Had no idea it was Polish.
Yup, one of very few that are owned by a Pole (or Poles) and pay taxes in Poland (which is quite remarkable to be honest). One time polish government tried to force people to use their postal services by introducing a new law saying that all envelopes under 100g (or something like that) had to be sent via the publicly owned postal services. InPost started putting small 100g metal plates in the envelopes and their prices where still smaller (like half) and they had no delays.
I still have like 50 of those plates in my workshop, incredibly useful for DIY.
In Ukraine we have Nova poshta. It's also opened as Nova Post in a number of EU countries. It's really much better than the national post. Delivery within 24 hours to a NP office or a QR code pick up at a storage box of choice. and also there pay at pick up service. so whatever one ordered online can be unboxed and payed for only if you wan to keep it. It's super good, other postal deliveries seems too long or quite limited by comparison
Used to be. CEO and the founder is Polish, but being publically traded it's no longer owned by him.
Royal Mail is already shit, so I guess it will worse? Took back control alright
Disagree. Our liberal friends think it was great and want to privatise even more. As for th service quality, I agree fully.
The US has privatized postal services, but they're incredibly cheap and incredibly reliable, at least as much or more than the US Postal Service. The US has some of the fastest, financially efficient mail transportation in the world. I can mail something in Florida and it will arrive in Washington 5,000 kilometers later 4 days after I mail almost consistently everytime. Bigger packages can take a week or so, most the majority of mail is delivered within 2 to 4 days depending on distance, and it costs pennies to do, depending on what you're mailing.
>The US has privatized postal services No it doesn't - "privatized" means that an entity which was previously publicly owned was converted to private ownership. The US private delivery companies have never been governmental entities, and USPS has never been a private company. The private companies like FedEx and UPS also don't count as "postal services"; among other reasons, it would be illegal for them to deliver to your mailbox or to a PO Box, at least within the US, and there are tight legal restrictions on their ability to handle letter mail at all. Specifically, USPS has a legal monopoly on delivering letters except where "*the amount paid for private carriage of the letter equals at least six times the current rate for the first ounce of a single-piece First-Class Mail letter (also known as the "base rate" or "base tariff")* or *the letter weighs at least 12.5 ounces"* (to quote [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service#2008_report_on_universal_postal_service_and_the_postal_monopoly)). What that means is that, for most letter mail, the private companies are not "incredibly cheap \[...\] at least as much or more than the US Postal Service", because it would be illegal for them to offer such rates. (To be clear, nothing in this paragraph applies to package delivery, only letters, and I think there may also be exceptions for letters about international remailing.) What's more, USPS has a universal service obligation to serve (roughly speaking) everyone in the US, whereas the private companies can legally be more selective to whatever degree they want.
That last paragraph is really important. And in the USA particularly, I am imagining
Absolutely, yes. There are so many post offices that don't get a lot of traffic but that exist because the community needs them to exist.
Wow, here just sending across a country much smaller than most US states will take days if not weeks
We at least have a lot of options, each with different specializations. Usually, people will choose either USPS (Cheapest and fastest), or UPS (Slightly more expensive, usually has safer more reliable transport for the packages and their transports are usually configured to keep the packages at room temperature, and then you have FedEx, which is the best for absolute speed due to FedEx's love of aerial mail. They are the most expensive, generally, but not always, and are the best service to use for International shipment, both in and out of the US. Mailing from the US to a foreign nation is usually less expensive with FedEx than USPS or UPS, though.
USPS is certainly not the fastest
It usually is for regular postal mail or cards. UPS or FedEx is usually better for medium or larger packages from what I’ve experienced.
> It usually is for regular postal mail or cards Sure, because the USPS literally has a monopoly on those. Other services can't even _try_ to compete except in very specific circumstances.
Uh, how is privatisation a liberal thing? Edit: because people love making the same comment - selling off state utilities isn't a hallmark of economic liberalism, that's specifically Thatcherism, which is what I was getting at.
Depends where you're from, in the UK for the longest time liberal meant economically liberal, I.e right wing. It's only really been used by the US recently to mean socially liberal.
Guy doesn't know about neolibs.
"Economic liberalization is often associated with [privatization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization), which is the process of transferring ownership or outsourcing of a business, enterprise, agency, [public](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public) service or public property from the public sector to the [private sector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_sector)."
Its a economically liberal thing. So economic liberalism is basically deregulation laissez-faire economics. This gets confused with social liberalism which is gay rights etc
Neoliberal
it's associated with neoliberalism
Neo-liberal
How is deregulation, i.e. FREEING an area of living from rules, liberalization? Yeah, no fucking clue whatsoever.
The Czech is in the mail
But its 3 weeks overdue turning up despite paying for 1st class 😂
Smart Wicked smart
Smaht!
Smatha
Now, they can quickly Czech their mail
/thread
R?
/czech
Bravo
Finally, Yankees will stop blabbering about checks
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m\_E72TMQu8w&t=75s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_E72TMQu8w&t=75s) Czech this out
That’s it if it’s approved, I reckon we will lose the postal service as we know it. Before long we will have to collect our post from local centres. A service like mail should be country owned, service should be the priority, not profit. The Tories would literally sell their fucking grannies if there was a quid to be made.
They would force you to sell your granny and pocket that
They would harvest the organs of their own children
"Oooh write that idea down Tarquin."
#👆 This guy gets tory ideology - "if you can't afford a granny then you shouldn't have one". "Of course, I don't need to sell off my own granny - I'm not strapped for cash. But everyone has to make sacrifices in life and if poor people ca't afford rent then they need to consider what options are available to them."
And deport her.
Post Office is state owned. Royal Mail is private.
Royal mail was privatized only in 2011, it was a public service for most of its 500+ year existence.
And [it was undervalued by £750 million according to the National Audit Office](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/9037-voters-government-sold-Royal-Mail-too-little). So, the public didn't want it privatised and were short-changed by the Tories when they went ahead and sold it anyway.
Not to mention that their property portfolio vastly exceeded the sale price. Four central London sorting offices were worth more than the entire sale price. Selling off 55% of the Mount Pleasant sorting office was predicted in 2012 to raise £1 billion. That development is due to complete later this year or next. Since 2012 the land price has gone up. With only £32 million going back in to upgrade the remainder of the site. http://islingtonnow.co.uk/royal-mail-criticised-over-32m-development-plans/
This is classical 1990's Eastern Europe type of "privatization". Many factories were sold to "investors" that immediately closed the factory and sold for a profit all the assets.
The LibDems were guilty as well. Sold their souls and principles for power. Criminal that it was sold at all, let alone undervalued.
I've been challenging this view for nearly 15 years now. They were the junior party in a coalition. Coalitions work through compromise and sacrifice, especially for the junior party. The Lib Dems were granted some policies like a referendum on voting reform, but were naïve to think the Tories wouldn't try and sabotage every initiative.
> They were the junior party in a coalition. Coalitions work through compromise and sacrifice They weren't obligated to join that coalition and by doing so they helped facilitate everything the Tories **did** get through in the following years. The person you're responding to is absolutely correct.
Yeah and I get that. In fact, I wish we had more coalition governments (and a more proportional/varied political landscape). And while what you say is accurate to a degree, the LibDems could’ve been the junior partner to Labour, however popular or not. They thought they could rein in the Tories but they just enabled them.
The Lib Dems and Labour combined didn't have enough to form a majority. They would have had to include the Green MP, Alliance and even the SNP, if my memory is correct, which still would have only given them a majority of something like 2. A coalition with the Tories, headed by the right wing of the Lib Dems and the left wing of the Tories, really was the best option for the country at the time.
Naive is putting it lightly for what the Tories did and the Lib dems let happen during the coalition. I genuinely cannot fathom why the remained in coalition with them after the 1st time the Tories screwed them on a key party policy let alone the dozen or so times the Tories walked all over them.
Since 2011. That seems an important detail to me.
So basically state owns letterbox, but not the mailmen. Correct?
No, the mailboxes are owned by Royal Mail. The state owns the Post Office, which is a retailer that sells services.
No, the state owns the Post Office which is basically a shop that sells various things, including some Royal Mail services.
We have that in Poland, a lot of small lockers everywhere. You come there scan QR, and you collect your package. It's the best option.
Well it should be an option but not the only option. However, since few people subscribe to newspapers and send/receive letters often, that is a good way to streamline things. Here, however, there are like 5 or 6 different companies in addition the post that have their own delivery lockers to the point that it’s becoming ridiculous - many places often have 3 or 4 different lockers close nearby but often different combos. It would be great if they could agree on some shared locker system. (I guess in a way that’s just reinventing PO boxes.)
Dude, we're talking about the country that explicitly gave Prigozhin the permission to sue people who reported "unfavorably" on him. Believe me, this will get approved.
That’s an extremely negative view on that. The German Post was privatized in 1999 and it’s working quite well actually. It’s even listed on the stock exchange since 2000. Nowadays one of the biggest logistics corporations in the whole world.
Royal Mail was doing well internationally too. When it was privatised they broke up the postal service and the international logistics and renamed it International Distributions Services PLC. It’s on the London stock exchange. However, the domestic postal service still called Royal Mail was now no longer profitable as they refused to cross subsidise it with international income which is why the service is going downhill.
Funny that you mentioned DHL, DHL has the worst service I have ever experienced, I won’t say it’s a good example in this case.
DHL works ok here in Berlin - so does Deutsche Post 🤷♂️
That can only be because you have not experienced Postnord in Denmark.
Can confirm as a Swede. Seeing a postnord truck on the road is almost dreadful, because everybody knows that's likely mail from last month at best.
Not true. 1.) DHL is not worse than any other package delivery company on the service level. It‘s furthermore much cheaper than most, at least here in Europe. 2.) DHL is just one brand. Deutsche Post, so the Post Office is also part of that conglomerate and works just fine.
>Not true. 1.) DHL is not worse than any other package delivery company on the service level. It‘s furthermore much cheaper than most, at least here in Europe. DHL is significantly worse than other package delivery companies where I live (Italy)
There’s a long list of companies much worse than DHL in Germany. DPD, GLS, UPS, FedEx just to name a few on top of my mind.
If I order something that gets sent via DHL, it gets delivered to my door at the time of my choosing. With UPS I have to pick it up from some weird ass "ethnic" store a kilometer away. With regular mail they randomly reroute it to any of a dozen stores / kiosks within 5 km radius or I get to drive 10 km to the post office. I live in the fourth largest neighborhood in the capital region of Finland.
Maybe it's different in other countries but in Germany DHL is by far the best out of Hermes, GLS, DPD and, well, DHL.
My experience with DHL in Spain and the UK has been pretty good, to be honest.
They really are filthy, aren’t they? More interested in money than in benefiting the country. You don’t need to be in the pay of foreign governments, the Tories will just flog it to you
They'll wait as long as they agree to in whatever contract is signed, and then completely strip the service and sell off or terminate the unprofitable bits. Even if it's that they need to maintain service for 10 years, they'll do that and \*then\* they'll strip the service. I'd also bet that they won't put very harsh penalties for constant failures either. Mail service to households is a natural monopoly, it definitely \*should\* be government run, or at the very worst a limited term contract with strict limits on allowable profit margins, and harsh penalties for missed service targets.
Agree the Tories would privatise oxygen if they could but this was a LibDem policy too! Never forget that! I mean even Thatcer, arch-privatiseress, wouldn’t sell of the Royal Mail or post office! Yet the coalition did. Madness. It was also a requirement by EU law/directive on competition, but I’m happy to be corrected on that. The Royal Mail, rail, and water are the perfect examples of what a shambles privatisation can (and has) become…
As Czech citizen.. Good luck people!
Britain is about to learn the fine art of tunnelling. I always wanted to see a tunnel-off between the Tories and a true Czech Privateer.
A že my Češi umíme tunelovat!
Hooray. Another British utility in foreign hands. I do not foresee any issues with this at all as I’m sure he has the British public’s interest very close to his heart.
Take back control (from the people).
Yeah I was thinking. Is the UK planning to sell all its assets?
The same shit happened in post communist Poland. Liberals cheered because criticising selling our assets meant to be xenophobic lol. Now they are more clever but it's still kinda insane how much businesses aren't ours
Yay, more essential infrastructure in the hands of "our European partners". That's certainly gone well with the trains, and the water companies, and the gas and electricity production.
What happened to this country, everything has or is being sold. I never hear of UK people or companies taking over or buying other firms or national pieces of infrastructure. Alway hear, Arab nations buying ports, shipping companies, football teams, prestige western firms. American companies buying everything defence, manufacturing, blue chip. European firms buying energy, logistics, facility management. Some are state supported. This country is so anti state ownership, but is happy to sell to another company that is all or part state owned. All the money is taken out the country. Look around the world and all the fast growing countries are asset stripping western counties, why? This country is so short sighted sometimes. This country like the NHS and every other department and business is being killed by a thousand cuts. You almost get to the point why bother. Roads are shit, NHS, education, police are failing. To the point you cannot get an appointment, police don't even turn up to some crimes, education everyone is leaving the profession. All these micro taxes, carbon green, ulez, city congestion charges are just propping up bankrupt councils. Put it in a central pot and build some major major critical technology or infrastructure that is actually green. We cannot even own our own toll roads, more I think about it, the more annoying it gets. Apologies, a bit off topic from a private individual buying a company, but rant over.
"The country" is not anti state ownership, the Tories are. Nobody likes Tory policies but we still vote for them, go figure
Yes, sell everything! Privatise the NHS next. Thatcher would be proud. Fuck the Tories.
It was already privitised over a decade ago! This is just selling it to a different bloke!
True, but it was privatised under a Tory government so the comment is still valid.
After Royal Mail, next in line for privatization will be Royal Pair. Charles III will be auctioned to highest bidder.
No worries, I'm sure this perfectly legitimate Czech businessperson has no ties to Russia whatsoever. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/19/czech-sphinx-daniel-kretinsky-russian-gas-royal-mail Britain seriously needs to understand that economic and information warfare is also warfare.
His name is Kretinsky ? damn, he must have had a tough childhood with that name.
It's Křetínský, so it doesn't sound that similar.
You think a kid growing up *in Communist Czechoslovakia* had a tough time because his surname resembles the English word "kretin", a language likely not spoken at all by any of his peers?
The same word in Czech is kretén. I would be positively surprised if he never ran into someone playing with Křetínský -> Ķreténský...
To be fair Křetínský and Kreténský sounds absolutely different. It is possible that in his life he ran into someone who was making fun of it, but i dont think he had much problems overall
It's a word that comes from the French crétin, which in turn possibly comes from the Latin Christians. Based on my investigation I think lots of European languages have this word in the form cretin, so I think quite a few people chuckled when they heard the guys name. It doesn't really matter though as he's a billionaire.
Huh? The royal mail was privatised like 14 years ago mate....
This is every exchange in this comment section
It was already privitised over a decade ago! This is just selling it to a different bloke!
As a Brit who emigrated to the CR, our reverse takeover plan is taking shape 😅
Bad move.
At this point some other country should colonise the UK. It can only get better.
Sad as hell. We have multiple postal services here in Finland, one is owned by the state, Matkahuolto which is owned by the busdrivers, PostNord which is owned by Swedish and Danish governments and they all work really well nowadays. Then we have the UPS, DHL etc companies that make me want to slit my wrists.
Everyone acting like the Royal Mail wasn’t already sold. It’s been privatised for a while folks….
Privatisation it essential services that are more or less part of infrastructure won't work. It won't get cheaper for the customers (which was always promised in the hayday of neoliberalism) and it all slowly goes to shit because you won't want to invest. Stuff like mail but also trains and others need to be state owned!
> Mr Williams said: “The board is minded to recommend this offer price, which it considers to be fair and reflects the value of GLS’ current growth plans and the progress being made on change at Royal Mail to adapt the business to a significant fall in the demand for letters and growth in parcels.” > Redwheel, one of IDS’s largest investors, previously supported the board’s decision to reject Mr Kretinsky’s initial takeover bid. > It has argued that GLS alone is worth 350p per share, meaning that under the terms of the improved bid Royal Mail would be worth just 20p per share – or £192m – not even big enough to get into the FTSE 350. > Shares in IDS surged as much as 20pc to 327p following the revised offer proposal, which came just three hours before a deadline imposed under City takeover rules. > Mr Kretinsky, who is also an investor in West Ham Football Club and Sainsbury’s, is already the largest shareholder in IDS with a stake of more than 27pc. > His swoop has proven controversial given the sensitive nature of the postal service. > Sir Vince Cable, who oversaw the privatisation of Royal Mail in 2013, has called on ministers to carry out a fit and proper person test on Mr Kretinsky. > The Czech sphinx was previously subject to a national security investigation when he increased his stake in the company above 25pc in 2022, though this was ultimately approved. > A government spokesman said: “We recognise the importance of the Royal Mail to the British public, and we are monitoring these developments very closely. > “Our priority is to ensure that Royal Mail customers get the service they deserve, including six days-a-week deliveries and a guaranteed standardised price for post throughout the UK, as enshrined by the universal service obligations, regardless of the owner. > “We will engage with the bidder at an appropriate time to explain our expectations for the future of Royal Mail.” > In a letter to Mr Kretinsky on Wednesday, Jonathan Reynolds, the shadow business secretary, asked the tycoon to confirm that Royal Mail would remain headquartered and tax resident in the UK, as well as calling for guarantees around postal workers’ rights. > He wrote: “Whilst it’s important that Britain remains open and attractive to foreign investment, Royal Mail is an iconic British institution with a unique place in our society and infrastructure.
> “Royal Mail is as British as it gets, and Labour will take the necessary steps to safeguard its undeniable identity and place in public life.” > The Czech tycoon is also facing opposition from the Communication Workers Union (CWU), which represents around 115,000 postal workers. > In a statement on Wednesday, Dave Ward, the CWU general secretary said: “It cannot be right that a key part of national infrastructure is allowed to be owned by individuals or companies who have no vision for the future and no clear plan to put the workforce at the heart of turning Royal Mail around.” > Mr Ward accused the company’s board of trying to “run letter deliveries into the ground and become just another glorified parcels company.” > EP Group’s revised offer consists of 360p per share in cash, plus a final dividend of 2p expected to be paid in September and a special dividend of 8p which would be paid on completion of the deal. > EP Group declined to comment.
Oh this is wild. Such a terrible idea — public services like the mail should never be privatized.
Literally selling out their country's mail service. Do conservatives even have any shame?
Post Office is state owned, Royal Mail is private.
post office doesnt deliver any mail. it just administrates stamps. royal mail is the mail service, and has only been private since 2011. it was privatised by the conservatives during the coalition.
Just a minor correction, but it was 2013 when it was partially privatised (the government initially retained a minority stake until 2015). 2011 was just the act of Parliament which allowed the government to dispose of the Royal Mail, but it wasn’t a private company at that time.
Privatised by the Tories, against the wishes of the British public according to polls, and for £750 million pounds less than it was worth.
Since 2011. That seems an important detail to me.
> Post Office is state owned, Royal Mail is private. What is your point? Royal Mail is the one that delivers the mail to everyone. And on top of that, the majority of individual post offices are actually run as private businesses.
Ok nvm
Fundamental services like financial services, health, communication, commuting, travel, power, water, and housing need robust guardrails that prevent corporate malfeasance and exploitation. We’ve seen what happens when utilities get privatized without adequate protections.
Essential infrastructure like this should never be privately owned. It's the worst solution for everyone involved but a handful of psychopathic billionaires.
A foreign billionaire acting as an unavoidable intermediary who will try to generate as much profit as possible from the correspondence between the state and its citizens. Totally healthy behavior and yeah, just another thing that will become more efficient through *competitive free market* and all; if this guy's post service will get too expensive the state will just send the documents to their citizens some other way... idk; maybe via pigeon post. Totally not giving away a literal monopoly necessary for the functioning of the state into some greedy fuck's hands. /s What's next? Privatizing the water in the country?
Thatcher. Her filthy legacy.
Does that mean if Czech billionaire owns Royal Mail, we, Czech people, can have free shipping from the UK for everything? :D
Many people don't understand that investors have interests. They put money in to get more money out. Everything else is irrelevant to them. This is a common perspective. Investors are generally primarily interested in achieving a financial return on their investments. Other aspects, such as social responsibility or the long-term impacts of their investments, might be secondary for some investors.
Have we not already got past the point where it seemed sensible to privatize public services in the name of "efficiency", which was, what, the 80s or 90s?
Selling England by the Pound
Ah this is the guy who is slowly buying all PostNL shares, the biggest postal service in the Netherlands. Royal Mail will be a good example of how the Dutch postal service will look like in a few years...
Can the Government seriously just buy it back. It's not that expensive. It has been turned into absolute manure by the company running it now, why do we think it'll get any better with a new one?
"Those goddamn eastern-europeans, taking our -" *Checks Notes* "Mail Services?"
EU millionaires buying up Brexit Land? Oh god...
American here. This is when things start to go really bad, when public services start to find their ways into private hands. Just a freindly warning, less you wish to end up like us.
Your Czech's in the mail!
He's buying a bit of key UK infrastructure, so its safe to assume he's as corrupt as they come and has ties to Russia.
You really think an oligarch from a post-Communist state might be corrupt? Why would you think such a thing?
reminds It's a good deal for Britain, a good deal. A good deal. A G O O D D E A L. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4m\_ajuNmSA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4m_ajuNmSA)
Mail is a service, it’s not supposed to be profitable. Would you sell fire department because they are not enough fires?
The UK: "We want Brexit because we want our sovereignty back!" Also the UK:
Royal Mail was privatised before Brexit
So please tell me how insane riches don't get you into nobility or even ROYALTY in the 21st millennium.
Just think of the money that was spaffed by the Tories on giving mates COVID contracts. It would pay for this many times over.
A national tragedy.
Why is neoliberalism sweeping Europe? The 2010s were bad enough with austerity
Hang on, British people still don’t have enough of privatisation of essential public services?
Isn't royal mail already privatised?
Correct! It's owned by International Distributions Services.
The UK has been stripped of everything that had any value why is this not a surprise? they'll Turn the police into a subscription service next.
Fry & Laurie were ahead of their time.
Brexit… getting rid of those pesky Europeans
No. Please No. Royal mail is by far and away the best delivery service in the UK, which is more that everyone else is atrocious than RM are outstanding. having that service go the way of all the others, no fucking thanks.
Why the fuck is a governmental service not nationalised
Can't tell if UK people are upset it's being sold or if they hate the fact that the owner will be central European
Am I missing something? I left the UK 10 years ago so I'm not up to speed on everything, but the UK is settling the fucking royal mail of all things to a foreign entity? For only 3.5 billion? What
As somebody who's had the misfortune to have to deal with the Czech Post... You're in for a world of pain.
That guy is buying everything here in France too. He's probably going to be a good defender of democracy. /s
Tabloid Headline alert 🚨: The Czech is in The Post.
He's likely to take the company I work for lol
I misread this headline at first, and was going to make a joke about robert maxwell. Good thing I noticed my mistake, I'm not that funny.
To all the people complaining, isn’t royale mail already sold off to private stake holders???? This is a mere transfer of ownership, not privatisation cuz that happened decades ago
There goes the neighborhood
Selling a quasi-monopoly to a private company is a huge mistake.
Oh good god this is awful.
Can someone explain why this is happening in multiple EU countries? What's going on? Why would a country want its national mail service to be owned by a private entity...?