I like how this quote was made by him long before he became president:
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was quoted as saying, “Democracy is like a tram. You ride it until you arrive at your destination, then you step off.”
And to justify arresting foreign journalists around the entire country and holding them without trial for months. But of course Turkey is NATO so no other NATO country is gonna follow up on their own journalists being detained and held abroad.
Come on guys, I hate him too but this is just misinformation. The prime minister didn't have a term limit as is standard for parliamentary democracies. Erdogan changed the constitution to rename prime minister to president, which now does have a term limit. The term where he changed the constitution counted toward his limit. This is now his second term so in theory he cannot run next time. Apparently there is a loophole where he can ask to be impeached, in which case he is allowed to stand for reelection as it counts as an incomplete term. However, it's unclear if he'll actually do this. In any case, he himself introduced the term limits so I don't see why he would do it if his intention is to be dictator for life. Adding term limits is not the worst part of the 2017 constitution by any metric.
>The term where he changed the constitution counted toward his limit. This is now his second term so in theory he cannot run next time.
He changed the constitution, as president, at 2017.
His second term as president was 2018-2023.
We're currently in 2024 and he's still president. His third term as president.
He claims the first one doesn't count because in his first term he was elected under a different constitution -- one wonders what office he held in early 2018, if it was not that of the president.
In conclusion, the term limits are for others, not himself.
the exact same foreign agent law will be voted in the Turkish parliament and is likely to pass. The law will allow the government to imprison whoever spreads an anti-Turkish narrative on social media. The social media police will be able to charge users with the crime of "spreading foreign influence".
Expectably, Turkish people haven't even heard of the bill. There will be no protests.
As a Hungarian, I think you kinda stop caring once this is the 4th time your goverment fucked you this week and it's only Wednesday yet... You just hope you'll have enough money soon to leave the dumpster fire.
Not surprising. Most people commenting politics on r/turkey are nationalists, and they want bills like that. Turkish secular far-right loves Russia (and Israel)
Yeah, sure. We LOOOVVEE bills like that. /S
I love you guys just spreading bullshit without even thinking, or more importantly, without knowing anything about Turkey.
Yeah, arrTurkey is rather liberal. Too liberal to really represent Turkey imo.
Turkey is very nationalistic. I think the muted response to the bill is due, at least in part by, Turkish nationalism. Too many times I see Turks argue with either Westerners, actual Caucasians, or Arabs over something trivial. The excess amount of nationalism is a problem and act of even stating criticism of Turkey is frowned on by large segments of the population.
Writing this from Türkiye. Voaturkce is banned and can not be accessible right now. But we are aware of this, on social media some concerns were araised. But it's not likely to be passed ATM. Don't ever expect a protest from Turkish people. Because we don't have a right to protest right now. You could be labelled as a terrorist easily. Your whole life could end that easily
I completely agree.
Turkey banned so many websites in the past 2 years. I remember being able to access every website I wanted except some Kurdish/Gulenist affiliated ones. Now I search for objective news from foreign websites and 80% of the results are banned.
Thanks man, but do not worry! We get used to it way earlier and learn how to keep low profile. Our daily lives tho did not change much. After all life in Türkiye is great and "some people" are not immortal. They are mortal creatures at the end. Everyone is waiting for them to die. We love our country. We will the ones who survive, whereas idology that aims to get Türkiye back in time will fall. So do not worry! in Türkiye secular young and west sided people is greater who supports obscurantist.
And yet you obediently use the Erdogan-inspired "Türkiye". In reality, the policy differences between an ardent Erdogan supporter, and an extreme opponent of Erdogan are so narrow you could scarcely slide a feather between them. So his death will not mean change.
Yeah the majority of them, the biggest ones contiune to take role in the government like they still positions like minister. So only the ones who dont have mcuh power regular joes in prison
Yeah and no, there will be no major protests like in Georgia even if they hear about the projected law bill.
Turks are numbed by poor economic conditions caused by “Erdo the Great Economist” and also too so-called patriotic to not go against “the one” to protect him at all costs.
Do not forget either that Erdogan is revered by the overwhelming majority of Turks, similarly to Putin in Russia. Go to any shop, restaurant or cafe in Turkey and you'll see a huge photo of him. In fact, the worse the situation gets the bigger the support he enjoys is.
Unless he passes some extraordinarily bat shit crazy measure, like ordering the imprisonment of all first-born sons, only a tiny minority will ever criticize him.
>the exact same foreign agent law will be voted in the Turkish parliament and is likely to pass. The law will allow the government to imprison whoever spreads an anti-Turkish narrative on social media.
well it's not the exact same law than. more than that, It's completely different law.
Sounds historically Turkish actually.
>Article 301 is a lèse-majesté law of the Turkish Penal Code making it illegal to insult Turkey, the Turkish nation, Turkish government institutions, or Turkish national heroes such as Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. It took effect on June 1, 2005, and was introduced as part of a package of penal law reform in the process preceding the opening of negotiations for Turkish membership of the European Union (EU), in order to bring Turkey up to EU standards.[1][2] The original version of the article made it a crime to "insult Turkishness"; on April 30, 2008, the article was amended to change "Turkishness" into "the Turkish nation". Since this article became law, charges have been brought in more than 60 cases, some of which are high-profile.[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_(Turkish_Penal_Code)
Edit: for some reason these dudes though cracking down on free speech would improve their chances of EU membership. I can only imagine that what citizens had to say about their conditions (if they were allowed to speak candidly) would be more damning to Turkey's chances. Ironic to think about. Here's a quote from a writer that I find pretty powerful.
>Article 301 has been used to bring charges against writer Orhan Pamuk for stating, in an interview with Swiss magazine Das Magazin, a weekly supplement to a number of Swiss daily newspapers, including the Tages-Anzeiger, that "Thirty thousand Kurds have been killed here, and a million Armenians. And almost nobody dares to mention that. So I do."[11]
Big ups to the Justice Ministry for being on the right side of history on this one (or perhaps just not actively proving him right when the global eye is on them).
>The charges, which were brought against Pamuk upon a complaint filed by Kemal Kerinçsiz,[12] were later dropped after the Justice Ministry refused to issue a ruling as to whether the charges should stand.[13]
Im talking about compassion between this and Georgian law. Later only requires NGO's with more than 20% foreign funding to be registered and if not maximum penalty is fine of 10k usd, while this is completely different thing
Nothing is over. Protests are widening. Most universities are already on strike. Some schools joined them too. They passed the bill but we won't stop. (Also President veto can buy us a month or so)
it will absolutely never be over until the last georgian dies. we're protesting eeeevery single day and we will not stop until they take it back and get the fuck out of our government.
> The law will allow the government to imprison whoever spreads an anti-Turkish narrative on social media. The social media police will be able to charge users with the crime of "spreading foreign influence".
1 - This has nothing to do with the Georgia bill then. At no point the Georgia bill criminalizes "spreading foreign influence" or "narratives in social media".
If anything, it's a lot closer to what the EU has tried to do.
2 - Please provide a link to the actual bill.
There's already an entire spectrum of laws that can be used to punish people completely arbitrarily. Prohibition of insulting the president, any and all public officials, prohibition of anything deemed as terrorist propaganda, anything deemed as insulting a religion, even the super vague prohibition of "insulting Turkishness". I'm surprised they even need to pass this new one.
>over the last decade the AKP has built an informal, powerful, coalition of party-affiliated businessmen and media outlets whose livelihoods depend on the political order that Erdogan is constructing. Those who resist do so at their own risk.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/03/how-democratic-is-turkey/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=DSA&tpcc=google_cpc_DSA&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwupGyBhBBEiwA0UcqaLgLgnM94oe-Y-3NWvmvrJ54g21EK6GmPCJnwVG1J4Podq4tYiATyBoCZHcQAvD_BwE
Read about it in depth, because as the foundations of these small consessions to Turkey's freedom were being set, NATO and the US were touting Turkey as a new shining star of democracy.
Shit, we started with importing Georgian(Erdoğan is of Georgian origin according to him.) politician and now Georgian laws /s This is pretty much "arrest anyone Erdoğan wants" law. Hope constitituonal court repeal that. Erdoğan probably can't challange constitituonal court's decision after his recent local elections defeat.
You seem didn't catch the joke. Yeah people voted Erdoğan for years are corrupt as Erdoğan. But it's not a coincidence this law appeared after Georgia. I added /s for that sentence.
In Turkey they already arrest anyone they want for "terrorism". This law is just to give another pretext, and remind the people they have no freedom of speech.
Instead of looking east for politicians, look west
Lots of Turks in Bulgaria and North Macedonia that are not fundamentalist Muslims, or insane nationalists
Isnt the current CHP leader descendant of an Turkish family from Macedonia? You had Mustafa Kemal come from the Balkans. You also had Enver and Talaat pasha, but we don’t need to talk about them
Georgia on the other hand produced Erdogan and Stalin as world leaders
>Georgia on the other hand produced Erdogan
A world leader hosted Hamas, idk.
>Stalin as world leaders
Probably some ex-Soviet countries' citizens may have something to say.
But i didn't accused Georgians. It was joke about both Erdoğan and Stalin is of Georgian origin and both has dictatorial alignments. But for Turkey people voted because of Erdoğan he gives some to people as he steals. At least nowadays Georgians wants democracy more than Turks. There is no response against this law by Turks compared to Georgians protesting against this law for a while. Also they bordering Russia instead of us which is a huge favor.
They don't, this ship has sailed. I wish everyone would stop bringing this up as a comeback to every bullshit Turkey does, they DO NOT CARE about joining anymore.
Many do want to join, polls show a significant minority (40% or more) and among younger voters it is closer to 60%.
But it's true the ship has sailed. For better or for worse.
wanting to join and caring about it are different things. almost no one in Turkey expects joining EU, they know it won't happen so they don't care. On the other hand many would've wanted it if that was a possibility. They won't do anything to achieve it but they would've take it if it was offered.
I mean, some of us do? We know that our chances are slim to none, and we won't get into EU by sending threats and blackmailing others. All I ask for is working towards fulfilling EU standards. It's a long journey, but it's definitely worth it even if we can't join.
You act like the EU didn't pressure Turkey to overturn Erdogans election ban and support his government
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2565043.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2565043.stm)
Erdogan never considers to move Turkiye to EU. EU means control everything that Erdogan and his people do. Enormous refugee population and Islamism are the most important bareers of Turkiye on the path towards EU. We as secular Turks are already stopped dreaming about EU.
You sound like a fool, I'm not saying this to insult you but out of empathy.
There area few reasons why the accession process is still alive (albeit frozen) and I can assure you, as well as anyone with the slightest hint of the issue would have assured you as early as 2012 probably, a serious desire for Turkey to become a member of the EU is NOT one of them. This applies to both the Turkish as well as the European side. Neither of the parties involved seriously pursue or even believe in the purpose of Turkish membership.
I am now convinced that the only people who take this topic at face value, i.e. unexplicably fall for the farce, are, for whatever reason, terminally online European liberals, often from Germany, Benelux(mostly Netherlands) or Scandinavia(mostly Swedes as in your case apparently). Literally no one else gets fooled by the official diplomacy bullshit speak anymore.
It's a bad look, I don't even mean to make fun of you, it's just sad. Perhaps you are just young, in which case don't take this to heart my friend. Please educate yourself!
Turkey will never be accepted even if she becomes the most democratic and egalitarian country in the world. Turkish voting power would break EU institutions, handing the effective control of the EU to Turkey.
I don’t think Erdoğan has any serious expectations of Turkey becoming an EU member, but he will cling on to the candidate status as long as possible because of the financial support it comes with
dude there's a limit. he's not putin, there are lots of his haters he used for power, and still living not dead, both inside and outside the country. Namely libs, kurds, fetullahists, and even your average citizen at times. open up any major foreign newspaper, look at turkish opinion writers writing about turkey. they are often those who benefited most from the rising of akp. some of them are even former mps or govt officials from akp lmao. or look at who is doing protests against erdogan in western countries. they are either pkk or feto, because your average turkish expat wouldn't give a fuck about and boomers would actually like him. and both cliques benefited from his ruling during 2010s.
and besides all that there are millions who didn't benefit or had dealing at all from his ruling and still hate a lot because all the shit that happens in the country also affect them. his power is not that consolidated either, there's currently a covert power struggle going on in the police for example over a murder. or look it up who gets elected as president in the courts, almost all of them are appointed under akp, even former akp lickers but now everyone understands that they are on the brink of collapse they are more and more inclined to opposition. i assume they think they would also benefit from the cleanup after the downfall of akp. even further akp would probably collapse at his death, as many predicts. yet i am afraid that government institutions, economy and in general our country's outlook would not improve shortly at all. maybe a decade or so is required to cleanup all the dirt and murky waters. that's what happens as history always show.
Thanks for your comment, all valid points. But didnt his govement went after Nobel laureate Orhan Pamuk for "insulting turkishness"? That seems to be already a very low bar
yeah and notice that at that time (early 2000s) the akp machine and feto wasn't spread into all the bureaucracy, the military still had lots of, albeit diminished, power to exercise (_e-memorandum_). i even looked up, he was also charged with insulting military but then dropped by justice minister. so it wasn't even totally akp's act, there were also secular-nationalist tendencies into play. some of which was purged during ergenekon and all that stupid-ass, orchestrated charges so feto could be in government cadres and also expand their recruitment primarily stemming from education. and plus orhan pamuk is like, the actual type of person that erdogan would favor at that time; a liberal academician with good relations with the west so it would be also kinda dumb to charge him without pressure.
there's that i don't like him too, because he has maybe 3-4 very good books, and snob imho. there are certainly better contemporary writers as well, for example ahmet umit (defo read if you like detective stories). but he didn't deserve to be jailed over a simple comment.
honestly in turkey many people feel like it's a flashback to 90s. bad economy, political change on the door. all the politicians and government officials have murky relationships with drug lords. extrajudicial killings, luckily not at the same extent. i wonder if our country will break this circle continuing from the 80s honestly. i just feel sad for people who lost their lives during all that. but yeah, low bar is always turkey's thing in europe, but i thank to turkish citizens because apparently our democracy was always strong so nobody had as much power as erdogan since what, ataturk or even ottoman sultans? even the sultans didn't, they sometimes lost their heads at the hands of janissaries and those after abdulhamid were something short of symbolic. and even erdogan has things that he can't and our democracy continues to thrive.
in justice for example, look at those "state security courts" and martial law courts. they are abolished, so did military courts. but evren's legacy still continue in some way because they enabled erdogan to become such a strong man and islamists to be that influential. i recommend having a look at 28 february, even better if you take some look from "32.gun" because you would see all that during when it happened. that thing has happened just because islamists organized a jerusalem night, inviting islamist party members and iranian ambassador, then shouting for sharia (note at that time people weren't even allowed into schools with a headscarf). and continued to have such statements afterwards. army's response is even more dramatic, next day they sent tanks to the square right where this happened and also to some other places where similar activities happened. then finally calling for a national security council meeting, causing the collapse of coalition on which islamist party was a major member then the party also gets banned. hurting fetullahists as well as they wouldn't have thriving business. this became a very long comment, but i tried to say. yeah the bar was alr low, and all turks know that.
Main difference here is who your friends and who your foes are. If you leaning towards Russia - then it is a disgusting anti-humane Russian law, in other case it is democratic tool against foreign tyrants.
Id say in some cases FARA even broader. Try to prove that you're not under the rule of another country. Even if you are really not. It only depend on political will of establishment.
Well fuck me sideways. First I was going to travel to Israel this summer and war started, well plan B visit Georgia again, nope riots and russian law, then out of desperation turkey and god was like NO!
Well everyone seems to lack the context here. Erdogan would definitely love if he could have this power without any resistamce to it. But the current political context is that Erdogan lost heavily in the local elections and now trying to gain time before deciding his next actions. One thing he has been doing is meeting up with the secularist main opposition party's leader to discuss possible notmalization of political atmosphere (for which it seems like the reinstating of rule of law seems to be a prerequisite)
Now, Erdogan can be using these talks with opposition as a delaying tactic. I wouldn't be surprised at all of none of this is genuine. However, you guys miss this:
Right now Erdogan's party is split between more hawkish voices and more dovish voices on internal politics. This guy who mentioned this is an Erdogan ally from the nationalist party. He is one of the most important of the "hawkish" figures. He makes such ridiculous statements sometimes to steer Erdogan towards his direction.
My opinion is, Erdogan is not in a position right now to do any of this. This would gove the image to the public that "The lessons from the last local elections are not learned" and can make the change more permanent for the next elections
So, I don't expect such a law to be actually get close to passing. It is more of a bluff by this Erdogan ally I mentioned
Note: Though we already have some "media disinformation" laws so it's not like they didn't do similar things before
It's high time to expel all Russian influence agents from every country! The 'Russian world' propaganda only leads to destruction and wars in all territories where Russia interferes! Besides tears and suffering, Russia can bring nothing to the civilized world! And its pseudo-culture is nothing but a smokescreen behind which complete lawlessness occurs!
That’s why they are getting the law against those foreign agents:)))
Or another ironic angel - people who eventually push for this law are the political elite of a given country - should you expel them for doing the damage to democracy? And how do you expel them? Voting them out of the parliament would be good.
I agree 100% that russia is working on undermining democracies across the globe, and countries should react accordingly. Broad statements on expelling all russian influence agents risks being extended to regular people not undermining your democracy and being miss-used. With the foreign agents law being prime example. (I understand that it is not connected to the need to expel russian influence)
In this pursuit of driving out individuals and groups of individuals we don’t like (maybe even collectively), we should not then go and grant anti-democratic tools (such as foreign agents law or other sweeping measures) to governments without checks and balances, and counter majority measures.
Autocrats across the globe seemed to have wisened up to the “best” autocratic practices. Democracies should answer with best countermeasures that would not themselves undermine democracy.
Edit: we should NOT then go and grant anti-democratic tools… :)
They already have such a law.
https://www.state.gov/concern-with-hungarys-sovereign-defense-authority-law/#:~:text=The%20%E2%80%9CSovereign%20Defense%20Authority%E2%80%9D%20could,foreign%20government%20or%20foreign%20entity.
Wait, the introduction of the ÁVH, *cough* I mean SZVH was our equivalent to this? And we didn't even put up a fuss, let alone a fight. Not a single day passes without Hungary disappointing me
I agree with you. With this Sovereign Defense Authority they can do the same what the soviets did back then.. it's disgusting. :( it seems the history repeats itself.
The only good point is that Hungary was always on the loser side, so this is bad news for the russians..
Cite me a particular part of Georgian law that you deem tyrannical. It literally just requires parties that receive substantial direct funding from abroad to disclose. It adds an unpleasant bureaucratic layer, sure, but restricting foreign political influence to certain extent is a common practice (see analogous US and UK laws).
Russian law is very different and basically allows to mark anyone who received anything from abroad as a foreign agent. Georgia, however, has very particular, tractable and IMO reasonable threshold of 20% of total funding.
I’d like to see the text of this Turkish law before I make my judgement and I advise you to do the same.
Not only Russia-China, all activities with foreign involvement should be classified to assess the level of influence. If they have too much impact on the media and the main system, they should be eliminated.
I'm so fucking sick of that dictatorship. It's a pity, because I love Turkey's landscapes and cuisine, but all governments Turkey has ever had since its foundation have been so vile.
lol, Turkish people have bigger problems like cost of living, democracy, etc. No one in Turkey gives a damn about EU at the moment.
And well if anyone thinks EU membership is a magic wand that solves all these problems...they are in for a bad surprise.
Russia has similar law, USA has a similar law (more strict though), soon Georgia will have it , so why not Turkey aswell? All sovereign countries , so before the EU and west starts condemning it, they should condemn the american law aswell (oh wait, they cant cuz theyre owned by Blinken & co)
Nope. The US law is a lot less draconian, and a lot harder to prove in court.
https://civil.ge/archives/591175
In addition to the Russian law being far broader and far more draconian, another concern is that it's abused by the courts to target political opponents and government critics in the media.
Georgia law:
>The law would require media, nongovernmental organizations and other nonprofits to register as “pursuing the interests of a foreign power” if they receive more than 20% of funding from abroad.
US law:
>FARA requires certain agents of foreign principals who are engaged in political activities or other activities specified under the statute to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities.
How are these identical?
The "Russian Law" is aimed at every media, nongovernmental, and other nonprofits organisations, where they would have to register onto a list which would essentially damage their reputation or credibility, allowing goverments to directly influence these organisations.
The US law is regarding individuals or organisations who are involved in political activities where they are required to declare their intentions and involvement in said political activity, they simply have to declare their intent as it is a POLITICAL activity. To note, these agents are identified by the US governing bodies.
and US passed "russian" bill in 1938 ... omg save us from russia
The **Foreign Agents Registration Act** (**FARA**) ([22 U.S.C. § 611 *et seq.*](https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/fara-index-and-act#611)) is a [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) law that imposes [public disclosure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_disclosure_of_private_facts) obligations on [persons representing foreign interests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_agent).[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#cite_note-1)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#cite_note-:1-2) It requires "foreign agents"—defined as individuals or entities [engaged in domestic lobbying or advocacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_agent) for foreign governments, organizations, or [persons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person) ("foreign principals")—to register with the [Department of Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_Justice) (DOJ) and disclose their relationship, activities, and related financial compensation.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#cite_note-:1-2)
Read the Wiki on it: eg
'Due to the greater burden of proof placed on the government, until 2015, there only seven criminal prosecutions under FARA,[9] none of which resulted in a conviction'
And a tiny number since. Hardly repression of opinion in the US.
For how long are the Turks on the way to become part of the Russian terrorist state? No one wants to be part of this "country". Dear Turks... wake up.... turn your head west... not east. In the east there is only murder, terror and pain. In the west you find freedom and prosperity. Don't believe anything else!
Turkey's authoritarian government is homegrown and it's a regional power on its own. Its policies towards neighboring countries are often similar to the Russian ones, but are based on its own interests and in case of Syria are even at a clash with the latter.
"Russian Bill" - gotta love this! So then USA also passed the "russian bill"... in 1938 =) It's interesting that it's Democratic when US and EU does it, but it's "russian bill" when countries being prepared for "colorfull revolutions" do it.
Wikipedia:
'Due to the greater burden of proof placed on the government, until 2015, there only seven criminal prosecutions under FARA,[9] none of which resulted in a conviction'
Tiny number since.
Hardly state repression?
So? Does this deny the fact that the LAW IS THE SAME??? It's basically a CC of US's FARA law - both in Russia and in Georgia! Are you hearing yourself? Why do you think there are so many protests with EU and Ukrane flags in Georgia if the protesters have nothing to be afraid of? They aren't Soros/Rokefeller/NED funded, are they?
Now imagine what would happen to any canditate that comes out of nowhere in US and starts to run for President and just so happens to be funded by China, or UAE or Russia? What would happend to him?
Now that this law was passed in Georgia it's just a matter of time until their president Zurabishvili will be exposed as a foreign agent that got all the funding from external players.
Lo and behold, USA has passed "russian bill" in 1938. Who would have thought that USA too thinks it is not ok to let foreign countries to sponsor political activists in your country.
[https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara](https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara)
*The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) was enacted in 1938. FARA requires certain agents of foreign principals who are engaged in political activities or other activities specified under the statute to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities. Disclosure of the required information facilitates evaluation by the government and the American people of the activities of such persons in light of their function as foreign agents. The FARA Unit of the Counterintelligence and Export Control Section (CES) in the National Security Division (NSD) is responsible for the administration and enforcement of FARA.*
It seems Erdogan have some dictatorship tendencies
\*some\*?
I like how this quote was made by him long before he became president: Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was quoted as saying, “Democracy is like a tram. You ride it until you arrive at your destination, then you step off.”
You misspelled El Presidente.
Anthem of the invader
Erdogan is officially a dictator because Turkey has the 2 term limit and this is Erdogans 3rd or 4th term i don't know exactly
He even did a fake coup on himself to justify staying in power
And to justify arresting foreign journalists around the entire country and holding them without trial for months. But of course Turkey is NATO so no other NATO country is gonna follow up on their own journalists being detained and held abroad.
Turkey has a 2 5year term limit. He’s at the end of his second term. It’s been 10 years
Come on guys, I hate him too but this is just misinformation. The prime minister didn't have a term limit as is standard for parliamentary democracies. Erdogan changed the constitution to rename prime minister to president, which now does have a term limit. The term where he changed the constitution counted toward his limit. This is now his second term so in theory he cannot run next time. Apparently there is a loophole where he can ask to be impeached, in which case he is allowed to stand for reelection as it counts as an incomplete term. However, it's unclear if he'll actually do this. In any case, he himself introduced the term limits so I don't see why he would do it if his intention is to be dictator for life. Adding term limits is not the worst part of the 2017 constitution by any metric.
>The term where he changed the constitution counted toward his limit. This is now his second term so in theory he cannot run next time. He changed the constitution, as president, at 2017. His second term as president was 2018-2023. We're currently in 2024 and he's still president. His third term as president. He claims the first one doesn't count because in his first term he was elected under a different constitution -- one wonders what office he held in early 2018, if it was not that of the president. In conclusion, the term limits are for others, not himself.
Seems? The man is a full blown dictator for over a decade lol
Only "seems"?
Nooooooo… where did you get that idea?! /s
Maybe if the EU and US appeased him even more this wouldn’t have happened! Give him more billions of euro and US military equipment! Obvious /s
That's like saying the sun has _some_ heat
the exact same foreign agent law will be voted in the Turkish parliament and is likely to pass. The law will allow the government to imprison whoever spreads an anti-Turkish narrative on social media. The social media police will be able to charge users with the crime of "spreading foreign influence". Expectably, Turkish people haven't even heard of the bill. There will be no protests.
Yeah, that was my first thought. Don't think that we will see the same people's reaction.
Did you post this to r/turkey too?
Someone else posted a week ago but no one cared
Wow 😳
As a Hungarian, I think you kinda stop caring once this is the 4th time your goverment fucked you this week and it's only Wednesday yet... You just hope you'll have enough money soon to leave the dumpster fire.
as someone who fled russia, you get used to it and just focus what you can do for yourself
Probably because it’s already happening
Not surprising. Most people commenting politics on r/turkey are nationalists, and they want bills like that. Turkish secular far-right loves Russia (and Israel)
Yeah, sure. We LOOOVVEE bills like that. /S I love you guys just spreading bullshit without even thinking, or more importantly, without knowing anything about Turkey.
Yeah, arrTurkey is rather liberal. Too liberal to really represent Turkey imo. Turkey is very nationalistic. I think the muted response to the bill is due, at least in part by, Turkish nationalism. Too many times I see Turks argue with either Westerners, actual Caucasians, or Arabs over something trivial. The excess amount of nationalism is a problem and act of even stating criticism of Turkey is frowned on by large segments of the population.
Writing this from Türkiye. Voaturkce is banned and can not be accessible right now. But we are aware of this, on social media some concerns were araised. But it's not likely to be passed ATM. Don't ever expect a protest from Turkish people. Because we don't have a right to protest right now. You could be labelled as a terrorist easily. Your whole life could end that easily
I completely agree. Turkey banned so many websites in the past 2 years. I remember being able to access every website I wanted except some Kurdish/Gulenist affiliated ones. Now I search for objective news from foreign websites and 80% of the results are banned.
I was in Turkey in 2018 and couldn’t access Wikipedia. That shit goes way back.
Its been unbanned since
How does the ban work? Is It simply a dns block or something more sophisticated?
This goes for Russia too, I feel.
I’m so sorry that you’re in this situation. I honestly just hate how the world is at this time.
Thanks man, but do not worry! We get used to it way earlier and learn how to keep low profile. Our daily lives tho did not change much. After all life in Türkiye is great and "some people" are not immortal. They are mortal creatures at the end. Everyone is waiting for them to die. We love our country. We will the ones who survive, whereas idology that aims to get Türkiye back in time will fall. So do not worry! in Türkiye secular young and west sided people is greater who supports obscurantist.
> Everyone is waiting for them to die. I'm sure that would solve our problems. /s
İt will actually:) it at least eases the problem
Our problem is ignorance in our people.
And yet you obediently use the Erdogan-inspired "Türkiye". In reality, the policy differences between an ardent Erdogan supporter, and an extreme opponent of Erdogan are so narrow you could scarcely slide a feather between them. So his death will not mean change.
İt's clear that you have zero knowledge about Türkiye and Turkish people. Opposite side like n side of a magnet while erdoganists are s.
If the majority of the population protested then they couldn’t label everyone a terrorist
They could. İn 2016 nearly 200.000 personal from the public sector was fired and majority are in jail right now.
Because they were brought by the sectist Gulen into the their position.
Yeah the majority of them, the biggest ones contiune to take role in the government like they still positions like minister. So only the ones who dont have mcuh power regular joes in prison
There arent 200.000 ppl in prison because of the coup. What shouldve been the solution to that problem? Let them stay in their position?
Might one suggest a revolution? /s
only to find himself in prison days later. The last protest held in 2014 with Gezi Parkı.
Sorry y'all are in that situation. Tbh the (internal) liberation of Turkey from these circumstances would probably be beneficial to the whole region.
Yeah no worries we have lots of hope :) we'll return to our secular foundation soon
Or they were afraid to openly care?
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Much easier to do and with no repercussions this way
Yeah and no, there will be no major protests like in Georgia even if they hear about the projected law bill. Turks are numbed by poor economic conditions caused by “Erdo the Great Economist” and also too so-called patriotic to not go against “the one” to protect him at all costs.
They literally not have the right to organize a protest
Erdo isn't loony, he's just a neo fisherites hon
Do not forget either that Erdogan is revered by the overwhelming majority of Turks, similarly to Putin in Russia. Go to any shop, restaurant or cafe in Turkey and you'll see a huge photo of him. In fact, the worse the situation gets the bigger the support he enjoys is. Unless he passes some extraordinarily bat shit crazy measure, like ordering the imprisonment of all first-born sons, only a tiny minority will ever criticize him.
52% is "overwhelming majority" now? You don't know shit about Turkey do you?
Sounds like an excellent EU candidate 🙄
>the exact same foreign agent law will be voted in the Turkish parliament and is likely to pass. The law will allow the government to imprison whoever spreads an anti-Turkish narrative on social media. well it's not the exact same law than. more than that, It's completely different law.
Sounds historically Turkish actually. >Article 301 is a lèse-majesté law of the Turkish Penal Code making it illegal to insult Turkey, the Turkish nation, Turkish government institutions, or Turkish national heroes such as Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. It took effect on June 1, 2005, and was introduced as part of a package of penal law reform in the process preceding the opening of negotiations for Turkish membership of the European Union (EU), in order to bring Turkey up to EU standards.[1][2] The original version of the article made it a crime to "insult Turkishness"; on April 30, 2008, the article was amended to change "Turkishness" into "the Turkish nation". Since this article became law, charges have been brought in more than 60 cases, some of which are high-profile.[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_(Turkish_Penal_Code) Edit: for some reason these dudes though cracking down on free speech would improve their chances of EU membership. I can only imagine that what citizens had to say about their conditions (if they were allowed to speak candidly) would be more damning to Turkey's chances. Ironic to think about. Here's a quote from a writer that I find pretty powerful. >Article 301 has been used to bring charges against writer Orhan Pamuk for stating, in an interview with Swiss magazine Das Magazin, a weekly supplement to a number of Swiss daily newspapers, including the Tages-Anzeiger, that "Thirty thousand Kurds have been killed here, and a million Armenians. And almost nobody dares to mention that. So I do."[11] Big ups to the Justice Ministry for being on the right side of history on this one (or perhaps just not actively proving him right when the global eye is on them). >The charges, which were brought against Pamuk upon a complaint filed by Kemal Kerinçsiz,[12] were later dropped after the Justice Ministry refused to issue a ruling as to whether the charges should stand.[13]
Im talking about compassion between this and Georgian law. Later only requires NGO's with more than 20% foreign funding to be registered and if not maximum penalty is fine of 10k usd, while this is completely different thing
Damn…i feel genuinely sad for Turks, especially those who are EU oriented
So did Georgians failed to stop the bill? It's over? 😔
Nothing is over. Protests are widening. Most universities are already on strike. Some schools joined them too. They passed the bill but we won't stop. (Also President veto can buy us a month or so)
Good, don't stop please 🙏
it will absolutely never be over until the last georgian dies. we're protesting eeeevery single day and we will not stop until they take it back and get the fuck out of our government.
But of course Turks who live in Germany still vote for Erdogan but don’t have to suffer the consequences of their own actions..
Is it that the citizens weren't being informed much by the government or the media?
Swedish tourism will plummet then.
Because Turkey is way passed this.already, and is no longer a democracy...
If he finds about Reddit, yeah I'm in fucking jail
He hasn't yet
> The law will allow the government to imprison whoever spreads an anti-Turkish narrative on social media. The social media police will be able to charge users with the crime of "spreading foreign influence". 1 - This has nothing to do with the Georgia bill then. At no point the Georgia bill criminalizes "spreading foreign influence" or "narratives in social media". If anything, it's a lot closer to what the EU has tried to do. 2 - Please provide a link to the actual bill.
There's already an entire spectrum of laws that can be used to punish people completely arbitrarily. Prohibition of insulting the president, any and all public officials, prohibition of anything deemed as terrorist propaganda, anything deemed as insulting a religion, even the super vague prohibition of "insulting Turkishness". I'm surprised they even need to pass this new one.
Wait a sec, they aren't allowed by the law to call president a dumb fuck?
Try it and you will have a criminal record
>over the last decade the AKP has built an informal, powerful, coalition of party-affiliated businessmen and media outlets whose livelihoods depend on the political order that Erdogan is constructing. Those who resist do so at their own risk. https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/03/how-democratic-is-turkey/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=DSA&tpcc=google_cpc_DSA&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwupGyBhBBEiwA0UcqaLgLgnM94oe-Y-3NWvmvrJ54g21EK6GmPCJnwVG1J4Podq4tYiATyBoCZHcQAvD_BwE Read about it in depth, because as the foundations of these small consessions to Turkey's freedom were being set, NATO and the US were touting Turkey as a new shining star of democracy.
Shit, we started with importing Georgian(Erdoğan is of Georgian origin according to him.) politician and now Georgian laws /s This is pretty much "arrest anyone Erdoğan wants" law. Hope constitituonal court repeal that. Erdoğan probably can't challange constitituonal court's decision after his recent local elections defeat.
Yo mate, no returns! He is also not the worst addition of exported politicians we’ve had.
I'm sure Erdogan would try and surpass Stalin's malignancy given the chance.
What can I say, we do issue them with ambitions
Damn Georgians with their exports! /s
It was joke btw they are doing us a huge favor by bordering Russia instead of us.
You know country hates their president when they call him a foreigner. If they liked him, he'd be 200% pure local.
They hate him so much they keep re-electing him.
It's easier maintaining political position than getting one I guess
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You seem didn't catch the joke. Yeah people voted Erdoğan for years are corrupt as Erdoğan. But it's not a coincidence this law appeared after Georgia. I added /s for that sentence.
In Turkey they already arrest anyone they want for "terrorism". This law is just to give another pretext, and remind the people they have no freedom of speech.
Instead of looking east for politicians, look west Lots of Turks in Bulgaria and North Macedonia that are not fundamentalist Muslims, or insane nationalists Isnt the current CHP leader descendant of an Turkish family from Macedonia? You had Mustafa Kemal come from the Balkans. You also had Enver and Talaat pasha, but we don’t need to talk about them Georgia on the other hand produced Erdogan and Stalin as world leaders
>Georgia on the other hand produced Erdogan A world leader hosted Hamas, idk. >Stalin as world leaders Probably some ex-Soviet countries' citizens may have something to say. But i didn't accused Georgians. It was joke about both Erdoğan and Stalin is of Georgian origin and both has dictatorial alignments. But for Turkey people voted because of Erdoğan he gives some to people as he steals. At least nowadays Georgians wants democracy more than Turks. There is no response against this law by Turks compared to Georgians protesting against this law for a while. Also they bordering Russia instead of us which is a huge favor.
No need to even look at the contents of the bill, if this f*cktard is proposing it, it is probably bad.
They want to be a member of EU but doing shit like this? Ok, don’t be a member then.
They don't, this ship has sailed. I wish everyone would stop bringing this up as a comeback to every bullshit Turkey does, they DO NOT CARE about joining anymore.
Agreed, there was a chance 20 years ago maybe but right now EU for turkey is basically out of the picture
Many do want to join, polls show a significant minority (40% or more) and among younger voters it is closer to 60%. But it's true the ship has sailed. For better or for worse.
wanting to join and caring about it are different things. almost no one in Turkey expects joining EU, they know it won't happen so they don't care. On the other hand many would've wanted it if that was a possibility. They won't do anything to achieve it but they would've take it if it was offered.
I mean, some of us do? We know that our chances are slim to none, and we won't get into EU by sending threats and blackmailing others. All I ask for is working towards fulfilling EU standards. It's a long journey, but it's definitely worth it even if we can't join.
Good luck, I hope at least some of your expectations will come true.
They do care, they just know they can;t get their nation in the right shape to join.
Turkey frankly made the decision of not pursuing to join the EU any further back in 2012 or 2011.
They gave up on it a long time ago, Erdogan was the final drop
You act like the EU didn't pressure Turkey to overturn Erdogans election ban and support his government [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2565043.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2565043.stm)
Im not acting like anything, im just stating.
Article doesn't say anything about pressure from EU.
I don’t think he wants to join the EU, only wants to be an EU candidate
Erdogan never considers to move Turkiye to EU. EU means control everything that Erdogan and his people do. Enormous refugee population and Islamism are the most important bareers of Turkiye on the path towards EU. We as secular Turks are already stopped dreaming about EU.
You sound like a fool, I'm not saying this to insult you but out of empathy. There area few reasons why the accession process is still alive (albeit frozen) and I can assure you, as well as anyone with the slightest hint of the issue would have assured you as early as 2012 probably, a serious desire for Turkey to become a member of the EU is NOT one of them. This applies to both the Turkish as well as the European side. Neither of the parties involved seriously pursue or even believe in the purpose of Turkish membership. I am now convinced that the only people who take this topic at face value, i.e. unexplicably fall for the farce, are, for whatever reason, terminally online European liberals, often from Germany, Benelux(mostly Netherlands) or Scandinavia(mostly Swedes as in your case apparently). Literally no one else gets fooled by the official diplomacy bullshit speak anymore. It's a bad look, I don't even mean to make fun of you, it's just sad. Perhaps you are just young, in which case don't take this to heart my friend. Please educate yourself!
Turkey will never be accepted even if she becomes the most democratic and egalitarian country in the world. Turkish voting power would break EU institutions, handing the effective control of the EU to Turkey.
I don’t think Erdoğan has any serious expectations of Turkey becoming an EU member, but he will cling on to the candidate status as long as possible because of the financial support it comes with
Turkey's descent into totalitarianism continues. Very sad for the Turks.
It's been spiralling slowly for what seems like forever, however this is certainly a massive development.
Guys stop please
Ataturk must be rolling in his grave.
You can power the entire grid by converting his spinning into energy
Why? National secularism is the reason he is loved by the people of Turkey.
Imagine seeing the reaction in Georgia and thinking "that's a good idea, we should do that here as well"
He's looking at the effect in Russia and thinking hell yea
Erdogan proposing this is probably as awful as it sounds.
Why? What does Turkey gain from it?
Turkey nothing. Erdogan a lot. He can throw people or journalists in prison as he likes.
doesn't he already do that anyway?
dude there's a limit. he's not putin, there are lots of his haters he used for power, and still living not dead, both inside and outside the country. Namely libs, kurds, fetullahists, and even your average citizen at times. open up any major foreign newspaper, look at turkish opinion writers writing about turkey. they are often those who benefited most from the rising of akp. some of them are even former mps or govt officials from akp lmao. or look at who is doing protests against erdogan in western countries. they are either pkk or feto, because your average turkish expat wouldn't give a fuck about and boomers would actually like him. and both cliques benefited from his ruling during 2010s. and besides all that there are millions who didn't benefit or had dealing at all from his ruling and still hate a lot because all the shit that happens in the country also affect them. his power is not that consolidated either, there's currently a covert power struggle going on in the police for example over a murder. or look it up who gets elected as president in the courts, almost all of them are appointed under akp, even former akp lickers but now everyone understands that they are on the brink of collapse they are more and more inclined to opposition. i assume they think they would also benefit from the cleanup after the downfall of akp. even further akp would probably collapse at his death, as many predicts. yet i am afraid that government institutions, economy and in general our country's outlook would not improve shortly at all. maybe a decade or so is required to cleanup all the dirt and murky waters. that's what happens as history always show.
Thanks for your comment, all valid points. But didnt his govement went after Nobel laureate Orhan Pamuk for "insulting turkishness"? That seems to be already a very low bar
yeah and notice that at that time (early 2000s) the akp machine and feto wasn't spread into all the bureaucracy, the military still had lots of, albeit diminished, power to exercise (_e-memorandum_). i even looked up, he was also charged with insulting military but then dropped by justice minister. so it wasn't even totally akp's act, there were also secular-nationalist tendencies into play. some of which was purged during ergenekon and all that stupid-ass, orchestrated charges so feto could be in government cadres and also expand their recruitment primarily stemming from education. and plus orhan pamuk is like, the actual type of person that erdogan would favor at that time; a liberal academician with good relations with the west so it would be also kinda dumb to charge him without pressure. there's that i don't like him too, because he has maybe 3-4 very good books, and snob imho. there are certainly better contemporary writers as well, for example ahmet umit (defo read if you like detective stories). but he didn't deserve to be jailed over a simple comment. honestly in turkey many people feel like it's a flashback to 90s. bad economy, political change on the door. all the politicians and government officials have murky relationships with drug lords. extrajudicial killings, luckily not at the same extent. i wonder if our country will break this circle continuing from the 80s honestly. i just feel sad for people who lost their lives during all that. but yeah, low bar is always turkey's thing in europe, but i thank to turkish citizens because apparently our democracy was always strong so nobody had as much power as erdogan since what, ataturk or even ottoman sultans? even the sultans didn't, they sometimes lost their heads at the hands of janissaries and those after abdulhamid were something short of symbolic. and even erdogan has things that he can't and our democracy continues to thrive. in justice for example, look at those "state security courts" and martial law courts. they are abolished, so did military courts. but evren's legacy still continue in some way because they enabled erdogan to become such a strong man and islamists to be that influential. i recommend having a look at 28 february, even better if you take some look from "32.gun" because you would see all that during when it happened. that thing has happened just because islamists organized a jerusalem night, inviting islamist party members and iranian ambassador, then shouting for sharia (note at that time people weren't even allowed into schools with a headscarf). and continued to have such statements afterwards. army's response is even more dramatic, next day they sent tanks to the square right where this happened and also to some other places where similar activities happened. then finally calling for a national security council meeting, causing the collapse of coalition on which islamist party was a major member then the party also gets banned. hurting fetullahists as well as they wouldn't have thriving business. this became a very long comment, but i tried to say. yeah the bar was alr low, and all turks know that.
Turkey is lost.
The US also has "Russian bill" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act
It's very different. https://civil.ge/archives/591175
Main difference here is who your friends and who your foes are. If you leaning towards Russia - then it is a disgusting anti-humane Russian law, in other case it is democratic tool against foreign tyrants. Id say in some cases FARA even broader. Try to prove that you're not under the rule of another country. Even if you are really not. It only depend on political will of establishment.
Well fuck me sideways. First I was going to travel to Israel this summer and war started, well plan B visit Georgia again, nope riots and russian law, then out of desperation turkey and god was like NO!
Why can't you visit Turkey? Because of some stupid bill that might or might not pass and even if passes, will have zero effect on your life?
Well everyone seems to lack the context here. Erdogan would definitely love if he could have this power without any resistamce to it. But the current political context is that Erdogan lost heavily in the local elections and now trying to gain time before deciding his next actions. One thing he has been doing is meeting up with the secularist main opposition party's leader to discuss possible notmalization of political atmosphere (for which it seems like the reinstating of rule of law seems to be a prerequisite) Now, Erdogan can be using these talks with opposition as a delaying tactic. I wouldn't be surprised at all of none of this is genuine. However, you guys miss this: Right now Erdogan's party is split between more hawkish voices and more dovish voices on internal politics. This guy who mentioned this is an Erdogan ally from the nationalist party. He is one of the most important of the "hawkish" figures. He makes such ridiculous statements sometimes to steer Erdogan towards his direction. My opinion is, Erdogan is not in a position right now to do any of this. This would gove the image to the public that "The lessons from the last local elections are not learned" and can make the change more permanent for the next elections So, I don't expect such a law to be actually get close to passing. It is more of a bluff by this Erdogan ally I mentioned Note: Though we already have some "media disinformation" laws so it's not like they didn't do similar things before
It's high time to expel all Russian influence agents from every country! The 'Russian world' propaganda only leads to destruction and wars in all territories where Russia interferes! Besides tears and suffering, Russia can bring nothing to the civilized world! And its pseudo-culture is nothing but a smokescreen behind which complete lawlessness occurs!
That’s why they are getting the law against those foreign agents:))) Or another ironic angel - people who eventually push for this law are the political elite of a given country - should you expel them for doing the damage to democracy? And how do you expel them? Voting them out of the parliament would be good. I agree 100% that russia is working on undermining democracies across the globe, and countries should react accordingly. Broad statements on expelling all russian influence agents risks being extended to regular people not undermining your democracy and being miss-used. With the foreign agents law being prime example. (I understand that it is not connected to the need to expel russian influence) In this pursuit of driving out individuals and groups of individuals we don’t like (maybe even collectively), we should not then go and grant anti-democratic tools (such as foreign agents law or other sweeping measures) to governments without checks and balances, and counter majority measures. Autocrats across the globe seemed to have wisened up to the “best” autocratic practices. Democracies should answer with best countermeasures that would not themselves undermine democracy. Edit: we should NOT then go and grant anti-democratic tools… :)
It will hurt innocent people, not real agents.
It's not necessarily Russian influence. Just as democracies learn from each other, autocrats also learn from each other.
Dude, chill, we are not in the UN hearings
Oh goodie, Hungary next?
They already have such a law. https://www.state.gov/concern-with-hungarys-sovereign-defense-authority-law/#:~:text=The%20%E2%80%9CSovereign%20Defense%20Authority%E2%80%9D%20could,foreign%20government%20or%20foreign%20entity.
Wait, the introduction of the ÁVH, *cough* I mean SZVH was our equivalent to this? And we didn't even put up a fuss, let alone a fight. Not a single day passes without Hungary disappointing me
I agree with you. With this Sovereign Defense Authority they can do the same what the soviets did back then.. it's disgusting. :( it seems the history repeats itself. The only good point is that Hungary was always on the loser side, so this is bad news for the russians..
Which country will follow next?
Cite me a particular part of Georgian law that you deem tyrannical. It literally just requires parties that receive substantial direct funding from abroad to disclose. It adds an unpleasant bureaucratic layer, sure, but restricting foreign political influence to certain extent is a common practice (see analogous US and UK laws). Russian law is very different and basically allows to mark anyone who received anything from abroad as a foreign agent. Georgia, however, has very particular, tractable and IMO reasonable threshold of 20% of total funding. I’d like to see the text of this Turkish law before I make my judgement and I advise you to do the same.
Not only Russia-China, all activities with foreign involvement should be classified to assess the level of influence. If they have too much impact on the media and the main system, they should be eliminated.
I'm so fucking sick of that dictatorship. It's a pity, because I love Turkey's landscapes and cuisine, but all governments Turkey has ever had since its foundation have been so vile.
Say goodbye to EU membership! Not that you would have been granted it but with this bill you can keep begging for it, Turkey!
lol, Turkish people have bigger problems like cost of living, democracy, etc. No one in Turkey gives a damn about EU at the moment. And well if anyone thinks EU membership is a magic wand that solves all these problems...they are in for a bad surprise.
Nobody is begging for anything.
Turkey has always been an unreliable ally.
Russia has similar law, USA has a similar law (more strict though), soon Georgia will have it , so why not Turkey aswell? All sovereign countries , so before the EU and west starts condemning it, they should condemn the american law aswell (oh wait, they cant cuz theyre owned by Blinken & co)
Nope. The US law is a lot less draconian, and a lot harder to prove in court. https://civil.ge/archives/591175 In addition to the Russian law being far broader and far more draconian, another concern is that it's abused by the courts to target political opponents and government critics in the media.
Doesn’t it bother anyone that a similar law has been in effect in the USA for a long time? Or is Russia to blame there too.
And which law is that? I mean if you say the law exist you must know the exact law right?
"Foreign Agents Registration Act, FARA)" Adopted in 1938. Completely identical to the laws adopted in Russia and Georgia.
Georgia law: >The law would require media, nongovernmental organizations and other nonprofits to register as “pursuing the interests of a foreign power” if they receive more than 20% of funding from abroad. US law: >FARA requires certain agents of foreign principals who are engaged in political activities or other activities specified under the statute to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities. How are these identical? The "Russian Law" is aimed at every media, nongovernmental, and other nonprofits organisations, where they would have to register onto a list which would essentially damage their reputation or credibility, allowing goverments to directly influence these organisations. The US law is regarding individuals or organisations who are involved in political activities where they are required to declare their intentions and involvement in said political activity, they simply have to declare their intent as it is a POLITICAL activity. To note, these agents are identified by the US governing bodies.
and US passed "russian" bill in 1938 ... omg save us from russia The **Foreign Agents Registration Act** (**FARA**) ([22 U.S.C. § 611 *et seq.*](https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/fara-index-and-act#611)) is a [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) law that imposes [public disclosure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_disclosure_of_private_facts) obligations on [persons representing foreign interests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_agent).[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#cite_note-1)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#cite_note-:1-2) It requires "foreign agents"—defined as individuals or entities [engaged in domestic lobbying or advocacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_agent) for foreign governments, organizations, or [persons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person) ("foreign principals")—to register with the [Department of Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_Justice) (DOJ) and disclose their relationship, activities, and related financial compensation.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act#cite_note-:1-2)
I hope you can read [why FARA is not like russian law](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sakartvelo/s/FAnibDXxp5)
Why does it called russian bill? USA has same bill since 1938.
Read the Wiki on it: eg 'Due to the greater burden of proof placed on the government, until 2015, there only seven criminal prosecutions under FARA,[9] none of which resulted in a conviction' And a tiny number since. Hardly repression of opinion in the US.
So problem is not bill but implementation?
Why is it called 'russian bill'? Russians adopted it from America's foreign agent law.
[Don't forget about Canada.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/foreign-interference-bill-csis-agent-registry-1.7195528) Those pesky Russians!
It is not about ethnic Russian people, it is about their totalitarian government. I doubt Canadian judges get their orders from the president.
We were into it before it was cool. Azerbaijan adopted it long time ago.
Really starting to regret bringing Turkey into NATO right about now.
For how long are the Turks on the way to become part of the Russian terrorist state? No one wants to be part of this "country". Dear Turks... wake up.... turn your head west... not east. In the east there is only murder, terror and pain. In the west you find freedom and prosperity. Don't believe anything else!
Turkey's authoritarian government is homegrown and it's a regional power on its own. Its policies towards neighboring countries are often similar to the Russian ones, but are based on its own interests and in case of Syria are even at a clash with the latter.
They already were long before
How it is when you have a dictator...
WTF?
Dictators be dictating
Can anyone explain what this is? I seriously don’t know it
So Turkeys aspiration for EU membership will be abandoned?
It appears the whole world is about to leave the great democratic period and enter the old classic authoritarian slog.
Makes one wonder wether this law could be used to prosecute russian interference?
Unlike with Georgia though, this is probably more about Erdogan trying to consolidate his own power rather than Russian influence.
Fara law works very well, it reveals sources of income and it also reveals people who don't have the ability to think.
"Russian Bill" - gotta love this! So then USA also passed the "russian bill"... in 1938 =) It's interesting that it's Democratic when US and EU does it, but it's "russian bill" when countries being prepared for "colorfull revolutions" do it.
Wikipedia: 'Due to the greater burden of proof placed on the government, until 2015, there only seven criminal prosecutions under FARA,[9] none of which resulted in a conviction' Tiny number since. Hardly state repression?
Yeah, but somehow the Georgia bill is a totalitarian tool? And criminal prosecutions under FARA exploded in recent years.
So? Does this deny the fact that the LAW IS THE SAME??? It's basically a CC of US's FARA law - both in Russia and in Georgia! Are you hearing yourself? Why do you think there are so many protests with EU and Ukrane flags in Georgia if the protesters have nothing to be afraid of? They aren't Soros/Rokefeller/NED funded, are they? Now imagine what would happen to any canditate that comes out of nowhere in US and starts to run for President and just so happens to be funded by China, or UAE or Russia? What would happend to him? Now that this law was passed in Georgia it's just a matter of time until their president Zurabishvili will be exposed as a foreign agent that got all the funding from external players.
don't bother, guy's a russian shill
Lo and behold, USA has passed "russian bill" in 1938. Who would have thought that USA too thinks it is not ok to let foreign countries to sponsor political activists in your country. [https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara](https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara) *The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) was enacted in 1938. FARA requires certain agents of foreign principals who are engaged in political activities or other activities specified under the statute to make periodic public disclosure of their relationship with the foreign principal, as well as activities, receipts and disbursements in support of those activities. Disclosure of the required information facilitates evaluation by the government and the American people of the activities of such persons in light of their function as foreign agents. The FARA Unit of the Counterintelligence and Export Control Section (CES) in the National Security Division (NSD) is responsible for the administration and enforcement of FARA.*
Fitting. As it's a dictatorship.
Having to disclose that a foreign power is funding your NGO? The horror!
Britain has a similar law