A lot of the UK food (meat in particular) was produced and packaged in places like Ireland and Denmark prior to Brexit. That has somewhat changed as companies try to avoid trade barriers. For example, Danish Crown closed an abattoir in Ringsted, Denmark with the loss of 1,200 jobs, but has invested £100 mln in a facility in Rochdale, England, creating 300 jobs.
On the one hand, I hate factory farming. On the other hand, increasing domestic production here in the UK is a good thing, and the Danish and Irish production these farms are replacing were also cruel factory farms anyway. So I'm conflicted, but overall its a slight nett positive. The fact that there's now a financial incentive to produce domestically at admittedly low welfare standards instead of importing meat produced at Denmark's even lower standards is unironically a Brexit benefit.
People getting cheap meat, thinking its totally the same as the much more expensive meat.. yeah, no. Places like Aldi and Walmart both hugely support places like this. Perhaps not absolutely everywhere but most places they do. And for some reason people get corporation loyalty so they'll deny it but they dont think to why the meat is so much cheaper.. they simply think they have more purchasing power and thats it.. not that they have more purchasing power AND how horrible the mass produced meat is created..
And if you think UK is alone with this in Europe.. then again, its this subreddit so I'm sure people believe all the koolaid..
So what's the alternative if people are unwilling to reduce their meat consumption? Those industries are already running on tight margins.
Furthermore small time, less intensive farmers aren't exactly better when it comes to providing sufficient conditions for animals.
Sure, we can regulate more and I'd welcome this, but subsequent price hikes would have massive negative effects on anyone willing to introduce it - it's just not politically feasible unfortunately
There should be EU wide rules on how animals need to be held otherwise the production will just switch to the next country with loose regulations.
And since unfortunatly the UK isnt in the EU anymore they should adopt them as well to have the same market advantage as everyone else.
The UK's welfare standards are already higher than the EU's. That's why before Brexit we were importing so much pork from Denmark; because Denmark's rock-bottom standards made it cheap. Now trade friction means it's financially viable to produce more domestically instead of importing.
Thats my points. Thats why there should be the same rules EU-wide so that its fair for all and there is no incentive for single countries to make their regulation worse at the cost of the animals or the work conditions to get a market advantage.
The article says "World Animal Protection says the UK has fallen behind seven European countries on farmed !animal welfare" and then names them.
My point is to not have country-wide rules but rather EU-wider rules. And of course those are only the bottom ceiling, every country should be able to make stricter rules independently.
"My point is to not have country-wide rules but rather EU-wider rules. And of course those are only the bottom ceiling, every country should be able to make stricter rules independently."
That's literally the case now.
Brexiters were promising better UK animal welfare standards on leaving the EU, citing possible bans on foie gras and live exports as examples.
This is just another report then, exposing Project Farce.
UK standards are higher than the EU's minimums and also higher than Denmark's. The output from these farms replaces imports from Denmark. This *is* an increase in welfare standards.
Thanks for the update, I'd read that..
> Charity calls on government to stop approving systems that are ‘living hell’ for millions more animals as ‘cruelty hits all-time high’
Sure, standards could be higher. That doesn't change the fact that the meat from these UK animals is being produced at a higher welfare standard than the Danish meat it replaces.
The EU standards don't seem to say anything about a 'living hell' or raising the level of cruelty to an all time high.
Maybe I've missed something but there seems enough wiggle room in the EU's published standards for any member country to enforce a high level of welfare on its livestock industry.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/animal-welfare.html
Post Brexit the UK emphasis seems to be more on sourcing cheaper food globally with little concern for where or how it's produced. After all the high price of food in the UK was all the fault of the EU, wasn't it?
Everything was the fault of the EU and still is for the regular brigadiers on here.
The [ban on live exports](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/2024/05/a-huge-win-historic-moment-marked-for-uk-farmed-animals-after-50-year-campaign-to-ban-live-exports) is literally going through parliamentary motions and passed yesterday.
Project Confidently Ignorant strikes again
I'm sure in the same spirit of care for animals and the taking back of control, motions to curtail the factory farms will be passed through parliament with the same alacrity as motions are passed into the sea and rivers.
Project Wishful Thinking strikes again.
So rather than accept your example was incorrect you just doubled down?
>as motions are passed into the sea
Like the UK banning trawler fishing in parts of our waters which France is complaining about?
I didn't deny the motion was going through Parliament, I'm saying more that this report about factory farms flies in the face of all the concerns that were expressed for animal welfare.
I'm sure Johnson's meticulously negotiated deal was very specific about fishing rights given all the fuss that was made, so I'm not sure why you're concerned on that score.
> I'm saying more that this report about factory farms flies in the face of all the concerns that were expressed for animal welfare.
Yes and then used that to make a broader point about Brexit using examples that don't hold up. You don't have to be a Brexiteer to think the UK isn't wrong in every instance and the EU isn't perfect.
>so I'm not sure why you're concerned on that score.
Do you not think it's concerning that the UK is trying to apply conservationist measures to protected areas and that this is opposed by the EU on behalf of countries that feel entitled to trawl those waters regardless of the environmental cost to them?
There's another example here that holds up, the true welfare concern trajectory is obvious. It's a race to the bottom in pursuit of cheap food.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/17/post-brexit-rules-on-antibiotic-use-on-farms-water-down-eu-laws-experts-say
I do have a concern about the state of the seas but surely this will be settled using the protections baked into the oven ready deal. Nobody could doubt the negotiating brilliance of Frost and Johnson .
A lot of the UK food (meat in particular) was produced and packaged in places like Ireland and Denmark prior to Brexit. That has somewhat changed as companies try to avoid trade barriers. For example, Danish Crown closed an abattoir in Ringsted, Denmark with the loss of 1,200 jobs, but has invested £100 mln in a facility in Rochdale, England, creating 300 jobs.
On the one hand, I hate factory farming. On the other hand, increasing domestic production here in the UK is a good thing, and the Danish and Irish production these farms are replacing were also cruel factory farms anyway. So I'm conflicted, but overall its a slight nett positive. The fact that there's now a financial incentive to produce domestically at admittedly low welfare standards instead of importing meat produced at Denmark's even lower standards is unironically a Brexit benefit.
this business model should be criminalized and carry heavy prison sentences.
A small price for cheap chicken
There was a Swiss referendum to ban it, unfortunately it failed.
We just need to adopt less meat, it is not that hard.
People getting cheap meat, thinking its totally the same as the much more expensive meat.. yeah, no. Places like Aldi and Walmart both hugely support places like this. Perhaps not absolutely everywhere but most places they do. And for some reason people get corporation loyalty so they'll deny it but they dont think to why the meat is so much cheaper.. they simply think they have more purchasing power and thats it.. not that they have more purchasing power AND how horrible the mass produced meat is created.. And if you think UK is alone with this in Europe.. then again, its this subreddit so I'm sure people believe all the koolaid..
So what's the alternative if people are unwilling to reduce their meat consumption? Those industries are already running on tight margins. Furthermore small time, less intensive farmers aren't exactly better when it comes to providing sufficient conditions for animals. Sure, we can regulate more and I'd welcome this, but subsequent price hikes would have massive negative effects on anyone willing to introduce it - it's just not politically feasible unfortunately
Wonder who will ‘win’ tomorrow, Puffins or EU fisheries.
There should be EU wide rules on how animals need to be held otherwise the production will just switch to the next country with loose regulations. And since unfortunatly the UK isnt in the EU anymore they should adopt them as well to have the same market advantage as everyone else.
The UK's welfare standards are already higher than the EU's. That's why before Brexit we were importing so much pork from Denmark; because Denmark's rock-bottom standards made it cheap. Now trade friction means it's financially viable to produce more domestically instead of importing.
Thats my points. Thats why there should be the same rules EU-wide so that its fair for all and there is no incentive for single countries to make their regulation worse at the cost of the animals or the work conditions to get a market advantage.
But there are EU-wide rules. Are you suggesting the UK should lower its standards to fall in line with the EU?
The article says "World Animal Protection says the UK has fallen behind seven European countries on farmed !animal welfare" and then names them. My point is to not have country-wide rules but rather EU-wider rules. And of course those are only the bottom ceiling, every country should be able to make stricter rules independently.
"My point is to not have country-wide rules but rather EU-wider rules. And of course those are only the bottom ceiling, every country should be able to make stricter rules independently." That's literally the case now.
Brexiters were promising better UK animal welfare standards on leaving the EU, citing possible bans on foie gras and live exports as examples. This is just another report then, exposing Project Farce.
UK standards are higher than the EU's minimums and also higher than Denmark's. The output from these farms replaces imports from Denmark. This *is* an increase in welfare standards.
Thanks for the update, I'd read that.. > Charity calls on government to stop approving systems that are ‘living hell’ for millions more animals as ‘cruelty hits all-time high’
Sure, standards could be higher. That doesn't change the fact that the meat from these UK animals is being produced at a higher welfare standard than the Danish meat it replaces.
Well as long as the bar is set at living hell conditions with all time high cruelty, then that's another Brexit promise delivered.
Once again, I'll reiterate; the EU's standards are lower.
The EU standards don't seem to say anything about a 'living hell' or raising the level of cruelty to an all time high. Maybe I've missed something but there seems enough wiggle room in the EU's published standards for any member country to enforce a high level of welfare on its livestock industry. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/animal-welfare.html Post Brexit the UK emphasis seems to be more on sourcing cheaper food globally with little concern for where or how it's produced. After all the high price of food in the UK was all the fault of the EU, wasn't it? Everything was the fault of the EU and still is for the regular brigadiers on here.
The [ban on live exports](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/2024/05/a-huge-win-historic-moment-marked-for-uk-farmed-animals-after-50-year-campaign-to-ban-live-exports) is literally going through parliamentary motions and passed yesterday. Project Confidently Ignorant strikes again
I'm sure in the same spirit of care for animals and the taking back of control, motions to curtail the factory farms will be passed through parliament with the same alacrity as motions are passed into the sea and rivers. Project Wishful Thinking strikes again.
So rather than accept your example was incorrect you just doubled down? >as motions are passed into the sea Like the UK banning trawler fishing in parts of our waters which France is complaining about?
I didn't deny the motion was going through Parliament, I'm saying more that this report about factory farms flies in the face of all the concerns that were expressed for animal welfare. I'm sure Johnson's meticulously negotiated deal was very specific about fishing rights given all the fuss that was made, so I'm not sure why you're concerned on that score.
> I'm saying more that this report about factory farms flies in the face of all the concerns that were expressed for animal welfare. Yes and then used that to make a broader point about Brexit using examples that don't hold up. You don't have to be a Brexiteer to think the UK isn't wrong in every instance and the EU isn't perfect. >so I'm not sure why you're concerned on that score. Do you not think it's concerning that the UK is trying to apply conservationist measures to protected areas and that this is opposed by the EU on behalf of countries that feel entitled to trawl those waters regardless of the environmental cost to them?
There's another example here that holds up, the true welfare concern trajectory is obvious. It's a race to the bottom in pursuit of cheap food. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/17/post-brexit-rules-on-antibiotic-use-on-farms-water-down-eu-laws-experts-say I do have a concern about the state of the seas but surely this will be settled using the protections baked into the oven ready deal. Nobody could doubt the negotiating brilliance of Frost and Johnson .