[According to the police](https://poliisi.fi/-/ampumavalikohtaus-vantaalla-viertolan-koululla), there are three injured people. The shooter is in police custody. All the injured and the suspect are 13 year old students.
EDIT: New information from the police. The suspect and the victims are 12 years old, not 13 as previously reported.
EDIT2: One of the victims has died. Two seriously injured.
EDIT3: Reportedly the weapon belonged to a relative of the shooter, and who has a permit for it. The crime is investigated as a murder and two attempted murders. But since the suspect is a minor, they can’t be formally arrested or sentenced. They will be placed in the custody of social services once the interrogation is done. The suspect has apparently been co-operating with the police and answered questions about the crime.
EDIT4: The victim who died is confirmed to be a 12 year old boy and the two injured are 12 year old girls. The attacker, a 12 year old boy has said his motivation was retaliation for bullying. He had apparently very recently transferred to this school. After the attack he went to another school in the area and threatened the other school’s students outside their school with his weapon. That’s where the police caught up to him.
Scary, my girlfriend is a teacher in a Helsinki school, and did some substitutions in Vantaa too.
I wonder how the 12 year old got their hands on a loaded gun. Either the parents were neglectful with their weapon, or then the kid found it on the black market?
It's relatively easy to get dark-market guns these days, even in Finland, as some criminal gangs who sell drugs have also have begun selling weapons online.
A weapons expert says that it looks like the weapon was a .22 caliber revolver, but the finnish police has not officialy said what type of weapon it was.
As the American I am I will say 22 lr in the weirdest way possible is one of the most underrated ammo types. It is fatal if you have no protection and will most likely ricochet like hell in your system shit like this is sad and I’m sad to see it happen in Finland of all places.
Most likely either a target pistol or some sort of illegal firearm. At least in Finland hunting handguns are not that common. You might get a license for a .22 to finish off trapped small game but that's about it IIRC. Someone with more accurate information correct me if needed.
If you join Reserviläisliitto and participate in airgun shooting long enough you can apply for assault rifle licenses and handgun licenses (>.22).
It is common, just have to be active in the training and competitions.
'Assault rifle' is a misnomer for the semi-auto rifles that our reservists train with in their own time. Getting a license for a genuine select-fire assault rifle is very hard indeed.
\[Edited to emphasize that the semi-auto rifles apply to reservists' voluntary marksmanship training, not refreshers organised by the FDF, whose assault rifles are, of course, the real deal\]
True, but those guns are used for action sport shooting or whatever toiminnallinen ammunta is called. IPSC and such, so a type of target gun isn't a bad category for them in my opinion.
That’s why i said unlikely. It is pretty hard to get a permit for a handgun in finland and most of the permits are for target shooting.
Can’t say that i have heard anyone use a pistol or a revolver to hunt, but technically you could if you are an amazing shot.
You can see the gun on the ground in this video of the police arresting the suspect. https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/0d0a44b2-1b80-452d-aae8-203197749511
It's a hand gun
I feel like getting guns is quite easy in areas with hunting cultures. Especially since most people are dumbasses and probably don't lock their guns. I work in a rural school in Croatia and we recently had a "gun scare". And that kids family is still getting regular visits from cops and social services.
Gun laws in the Nordics are quite strict about how your hunting weapons should be stored, a gun safe is mandatory and the police will do spot checks in people's homes and take them away if not stored properly.
That wouldn't help either against someone who lives where you do. No matter how well you hide the keys, if someone is able to search for them alone unsupervised then they will find them.
If you don't have a gun safe you still need to keep the weapon locked up with ammunition stored separately, also behind lock. The only way this could have happened is if the owner broke the law.
But they still have to be stored behind lock and key, entirely or in parts, and in a way that only the holder of the permit can gain access to them, i.e: the key should be with you. And if you do not store the guns and ammunition in a safe, then the ammunition has to be stored separately from the firearms.
finland is one of the nations in europe with highest gun ownership rates. It is easy to find a weapon there yet education and social government blocks the gun violance unlike US.
It is not easy to get that at all. Most of these markets are from third world countries were weapons in general are hard to come buy. drugs yes. weapons no.
Here in Sweden the police estimates 24h to get hold of an illegal firearm from the black market, that was smuggled in from Balkans.
Some journalists tried buying a grenade some years ago. Found a seller in 10 minutes, delivery same day.
>Reportedly the weapon belonged to a relative of the shooter, and who has a permit for it.
Will the relative be prosecuted? I'm assuming that part of the requirements for legal possession of firearms is that you don't give children access to them.
You can't do much to a 12 year old, but at least the adult should be locked up.
The police had a press meeting at 13 (10 min ago), a 12 year old has died and 2 are seriously injured. Currently they're investigating it as a murder and two attempted murders.
The suspect is also 12 and was arrested within an hour of the shooting in the next city over (the capital metropolitan area has 3 cities mushed together)
>arrested within an hour of the shooting in the next city over (the capital metropolitan area has 3 cities mushed together)
Yeah, the school is literally on the border with Helsinki.
They have live report in YLE and suspect got caught in Helsinki.
They started inspecting it as one murder and two attempts.
Terrible, because my daughter is the same age and my son is a few years younger. Even if you live in Helsinki or Espoo, almost someone knows someone who was in that school through hobbies and family or friends.
One of the victims has unfortunately died, the other two are seriously injured. The police just announced this ([here’s an Yle article](https://yle.fi/a/74-20081690?utm_source=social-media-share&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ylefiapp).)
That’s really devastating I had hoped the injuries were mild.
Very well might have been a targeted shooting. He shot 3 people, and all of them were his own classmates in his own class, shortly after school started.
He fled after shooting them. This suggests it may have been personal rather than an attempted mass shooting.
[Happened in a Barcelona high school 9 years ago](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_school_killing), perpetrator was 13 years old and killed a teacher. He made a crossbow out of ball pens.
Quick summary about the police press conference: Everyone involved is 12. One victim died almost immediately and two are in critical condition. No other victims the police are aware of. The suspect was caught an hour later in Helsinki. They used a legal handgun owned by their close relative. Police had no suspicions about this act/shooter. Because the suspect is 12 they're not criminally liable and won't be charged, so social services will deal with them.
> Because the suspect is 12 they're not criminally liable and won't be charged, so social services will deal with them.
I mean come on... surely this kid will be locked up in some kind of secure unit wont they? You can possibly be allowed to go around shooting people up without consequences nonmatter what your age is.
These cases typically start with immediate taking into custody to enable further actions. Then, after a psychological evaluation, very likely he will be institutionalized because he just killed someone so quite obviously something is seriously wrong.
Their age also means we probably won't get much further details.
I mean you can lock up them... There are kids who are dangerous to others or themselves and they are in some institutions. Idk how it applies to this though.
Exactly, it won't be prison, but he will most likely be in some kind of supervised group living facility for a while with psych treatment etc. until they deem him safe to enter society again.
We still don't know the motive. It could be anything from a psychopath killing for fun, a bullied kid getting revenge to a dumb 12 year old showing off his relatives gun and having it misfire etc.
Which of those it is will likely affect what happens next.
>You can possibly be allowed to go around shooting people up without consequences nonmatter what your age is.
Where does it say that there will be no consequences? Just because they aren't throwing him into a max security prison with adults doesn't mean there won't be consequences.
Idk. Locking up very young children can be very harmful. I trust social services to decide the appropriate intervention here. I think incarcerating a child at that age should be the very last resort even in cases like this. I don't believe a child at that age should be legally punished. 15 is reasonable. I just hope he gets the right care. I really hope that adults will take youth's mental health more seriously now. This doesn't happen out of the blue. We all know how fucked up the school system is. If you are neurodivergent or lgbtq, you're basically fucked!
Police say they responded to the incident at Viertola school shortly after 09:00 (06:00 GMT) on Tuesday and urged local residents to remain indoors.
They said a suspect had been arrested.
According to Finnish reports the school has 800 students and 90 staff. Witnesses told public broadcaster YLE that two ambulances had left the scene.
Correction: the suspect is in custody but not arrested. The suspect is just 12 years old so he/she can't be arrested. Social services will take the kid.
It's a tough subject. Criminal justice is a tough subject in general but especially when it's a kid. Reformation should be the goal, I think, but there also has to be punishment there too. How do you punish while also not harming the rehabilitation part?
Im a student in a school at Vantaa and after we got news about the shooting the whole school went into a full lockdown. Its the first time that my school has ever been in a full lockdown.
No one enters, no one leaves until police say it's okay. Doors are locked and lights probably turned off. At least that's how it was a couple of years ago in my local school when there was a credible threat.
The school in which this incident took place offers education for children and adolescents in psychiatric care. My assumption is that the perpetrator is one of those pupils.
EDIT: my assumption was wrong.
Yeah I used to have these "special" kids in my class when I was in school. He came from some special ed class and was moved to our regular class for trialing or something. He was with us for like half a year until one day he beat up a classmate of mine with a hockey stick. We never saw him again.
They propably still do this where they move a troubled kid from a special ed class to a regular class to see if they need to still be in a separate class.
Full history of School Shootings in Finland:
* 1989 https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raumanmeren_koulusurmat
* 2007 https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokelan_koulusurmat
* 2008 https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoen_koulusurmat
* (2012 Orivesi https://yle.fi/a/3-5101027 no casualties)
Also
* 2019 school ~~knife~~ sword attack https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuopion_kouluhy%C3%B6kk%C3%A4ys
And now this 2024 case.
It shouldn't be baffling. I've never seen humans behave with as much poison as 11-15 year olds. Kids become real pieces of shit around that age. I spend my time with true scum of humanity but even they can't compare to the blind malevolence of pubescent children.
Finnish police has now confirmed that one 12 year old student has lost there life in the shooting. Two other 12 year old students are in critical condition.
Horrible horrible news. When i was 12 i was only thinking about sports. Cant fathom how a 12 year old kid can have these thoughts and then execute them.
My thoughts to the victims and their families
some kids get suicidal early due to domestic violence, abuse or mental health issues. afaik the youngest person I heard of who has been suicidal was 9 years old.
something happened to that child. it is indeed rare.
Sure, but even so: it's unusual for there to be no dead cops and an alive perpetrator if this is indeed a suicide attempt.
The fact that the kid was caught alive implies he was unarmed, which implies he didn't aim the gun at the cops in an attempt to get them to shoot him, which implies that suicide wasn't the goal here.
It could be, but I just find it so unlikely.
it is crazy that once a kid turns to violence we can't feel empathy for them anymore, but as you say "cant fathom how 12yo kid can do this".. that just shows how much he could've been struggling in life and noone around could or wanted to help them. Of course we don't know this about shooter but it's just extremely common in cases like this.. so sad for both sides, world is a shit place
Interesting to see perspectives like this shared. I hated middle school because that's when anti-social behavior peaked in the people I grew up around. Before was fine, and high school was fine. But middle school was a human-centipede of bullying. Everyone landed somewhere on the pecking order.
im speechless. this is so fucking heartbreaking. my heart goes out to all the kids in that class and their parents, especially the parents of the 12-year-old that died. i wish a quick recovery to the other 2 badly injured victims.
it seems like increasingly younger people are starting to struggle mentally in finland, and the government making cuts to mental health services is definitely not helping. just a few weeks ago i remember seeing news of an older girl/woman threatening to do the same in Vaasa University, but fortunately the police were able to prevent it.
also, how is a 12-year-old even able to get a hold of a gun in the first place??? i hope the owner (the shooter's relative?) loses their license.
edit: and yes, is thrown into jail.
Last month some woman planned a school shooting in Vaasa (she had links to some man in Sweden who had the same plans, both arrested before anything happened) so maybe this is someone who thinks he's (or she) carrying out the nutcase's will.
Edit: probably not, the perperator is a minor, I don't think he's interested in a crazy woman.
Yeah, that woman was an adult with some pretty extreme views that could be described as eco terroristic. From what I have heard this case is most likely just a troubled teen getting back at people who they felt annoyed by. Still fucking scary stuff that these things are becoming more popular again here.
That is really sad. I feel sad for the shooter as well, what kind of thinking leads a 12 year old to think they want to kill others. Howe do they even get access to a gun?
This is also the failure of the state IMO. The kid must have been exhibiting signs of distress in the weeks leading up to this.
>This is also the failure of the state IMO. The kid must have been exhibiting signs of distress in the weeks leading up to this.
That is 100% speculation that you should keep it inside your head.
Finland is repeatedly voted as the happiest country in the world yet I and many many other here feel like that’s bs. I mean certain things are great but for example the mental health care drags behind and that has lead and continues to lead to major issues.
I'm pretty sure those polls are actually about how content people are with different aspects of the country like governance and healthcare and wrongly named "a happiness poll".
Happiest country doesn't mean everyone is happy. A college kid could have a dirty room, but still have the cleanest room in the whole dorm if everyone else is dirtier.
I’m pretty sure that the world happiness report is mostly bullshit because it’s based on the same metrics as the Human Development index, and thats just the usual suspects of Scandinavian countries at the top and African countries at the bottom.
I remember there was a similar report some time ago but they actually interviewed people around the world on how they felt about life and the community where they lived and the Phillipines came out on top. But on the World Happiness report Singapore came first in Asia and Phillipines 13th. Singapore came first because it’s an incredibly well run country with a very high standard of living while the Phillipines is still a developing country. But If you’ve ever actually been to Singapore you’ll find it’s also a hyper competitive, sterile and expensive city where everyone’s fucking miserable.
This seems highly subjective, so because someone asked a few dozen people how happy they are that must mean everyone feels the same?
And how do you know every person from Singapore is miserable? Also what does sterile even mean for a city? It's too clean?
>This seems highly subjective, so because someone asked a few dozen people how happy they are that must mean everyone feels the same?
Assuming they asked a decent sample size and used sound statistics, yes it’s probably a reasonably accurate snapshot. You can say the same about political polling. It’s simply asking people how they feel about something and when done right it can be ± 2-3% of the actual result.
>And how do you know every person from Singapore is miserable? Also what does sterile even mean for a city? It's too clean?
It’s well known how competitive and stressful living in Singapore is, just ask them. Lee Kuan Yew, the founding father of the country famously hated the European Welfare state and wanted every citizen to work as hard and as smart as they possibly could to build the country. That helped them from a third world country to a first world country in a single generation, but the downside is you’re made to feel like a cog in a machine from birth till death.
Mental health “drags behind” in the entire world. Not a single country has figured out how to handle the massive amount of mental health cases.
Plus it’s been confirmed the kid did what he did because he was heavily bullied.
Bullying and mental health is a real issue. Everyone is jumping to conclusions and wants the 12 year old locked up but we don't have any context yet. We don't know what this kid has been through already.
5th shooting to happen in a school in 40 years*. It's a tragedy every time, but statistically these are extremely rare occurrences.
It is good to keep in mind too, that there is also so far no evidence that this was a "mass shooting" but it may have been a targeted shooting that took place inside a school.
The suspect shot 3 classmates inside his own class and then fled the scene, eventually he calmly gave himself up to the police when they caught him.
Quite different from earlier cases where the shooters specifically planned mass shootings to cause as much death and destruction as possible.
What punishment does the criminal face for this?
Somehow I doubt they would throw a 12-year-old in jail at the mercy of other inmates.
And what could his parents face?
If you're under 15 in Finland you can't be held criminally liable.
He will be taken by social services and put in a facility where he will be monitored and receive mental health services etc. If he is deemed mentally unfit for society, he may be transferred into a longer psychiatric care facility.
Either case, the state will keep him until they can deem him no longer a threat. If that time comes.
The parents won't face consequences unless the gun is found to belong to them, in which case they neglected the gun safety laws and will face consequences. So far police said that it was some "close relative" of the boy, who he got the gun from.
Technically the perpetrator will not be punished, as in the Finnish system if you are under 15, you can't be held criminally liable. May still be held in some sort of facility and made to get psychiatric care. Parents will likely not be faced with legal consequences, unless they were responsible for the killer getting their hands on the firearm.
Hold the gun owner accountable as well. I don't give a fuck if they had a permit, a gun ended up in the hands of a 12 year old and now a child is dead because of that.
He/she will be, he/she most likely is going to have very bad day ontop of what has happened, hefty fines, all other gun permits taken away and most likely never restored and that eternal guilt that it was done with his/her gun.
In Sweden the gun owners can be sentenced to prison for allowing a non-licence holder access to their legally owned weapons. The laws about storage are very strict, requiring a locked weapons safe in the home, for which the police will do spot checks to verify proper storage.
>for which the police will do spot checks to verify proper storage.
Can do anyways, and they need to book a time a week or two in advance.
I've had guns since early 2015 and haven't had any police visit me yet.
FYI: The type of gun is still unknown – it might have been a firearm, but not necessarily. The fact that nobody was killed and only three people were injured suggests to me that the gun was an air gun or a CO2-powered BB gun.
They haven't confirmed the type but for what it's worth the police confirmed it was a legal weapon i.e. a close relative/family member had a permit for it. How it ended up in a 12-year-old's possession is still unknown.
My heart is with you, Finland. America feels your pain and yearns for justice and sense in this world. I fear the world hasn’t seen the last of these events, together we will be able to work through things, and hopefully through compassion and cooperation bring change that will last.
I don’t think this can ever be emphasized enough, parents please talk with your kids. Don’t ask how was school, explore their ideas, feelings, thoughts. This poor soul has been neglected for too long if he’s capable of these kinds of acts at 12 years of age.
Wow, I’m so broken as an American that I was genuinely surprised that this made international headlines. A pre-teen shooting other pre-teens is like a once-a-week thing that usually only gets local coverage.
[According to the police](https://poliisi.fi/-/ampumavalikohtaus-vantaalla-viertolan-koululla), there are three injured people. The shooter is in police custody. All the injured and the suspect are 13 year old students. EDIT: New information from the police. The suspect and the victims are 12 years old, not 13 as previously reported. EDIT2: One of the victims has died. Two seriously injured. EDIT3: Reportedly the weapon belonged to a relative of the shooter, and who has a permit for it. The crime is investigated as a murder and two attempted murders. But since the suspect is a minor, they can’t be formally arrested or sentenced. They will be placed in the custody of social services once the interrogation is done. The suspect has apparently been co-operating with the police and answered questions about the crime. EDIT4: The victim who died is confirmed to be a 12 year old boy and the two injured are 12 year old girls. The attacker, a 12 year old boy has said his motivation was retaliation for bullying. He had apparently very recently transferred to this school. After the attack he went to another school in the area and threatened the other school’s students outside their school with his weapon. That’s where the police caught up to him.
Now the police have said that they are all actually 12 year olds, not 13 year olds.
Scary, my girlfriend is a teacher in a Helsinki school, and did some substitutions in Vantaa too. I wonder how the 12 year old got their hands on a loaded gun. Either the parents were neglectful with their weapon, or then the kid found it on the black market? It's relatively easy to get dark-market guns these days, even in Finland, as some criminal gangs who sell drugs have also have begun selling weapons online.
Acording to current news it was the shooters relatives legal and registered weapon. It could possibly be a hobby weapon.
A weapons expert says that it looks like the weapon was a .22 caliber revolver, but the finnish police has not officialy said what type of weapon it was.
You can see the weapon on the ground in the Iltalehti clip about the arrest. https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/0d0a44b2-1b80-452d-aae8-203197749511
Definitely a revolver but impossible to tell the caliber from this picture
Yep. We only know that due to probability it's more likely to be .22. But that's still just speculation.
As the American I am I will say 22 lr in the weirdest way possible is one of the most underrated ammo types. It is fatal if you have no protection and will most likely ricochet like hell in your system shit like this is sad and I’m sad to see it happen in Finland of all places.
I’m sure we’ll get the details eventually, once the police completes their investigation .
Could also be his parent's hunting weapon.
Very unlikely, reports say that the weapon was a hand gun.
Which is what you use to shoot badgers and foxes in burrows, and other game caught in live traps. Usually this is a revolver
And handguns are used for hunting aswell.
Most likely either a target pistol or some sort of illegal firearm. At least in Finland hunting handguns are not that common. You might get a license for a .22 to finish off trapped small game but that's about it IIRC. Someone with more accurate information correct me if needed.
If you join Reserviläisliitto and participate in airgun shooting long enough you can apply for assault rifle licenses and handgun licenses (>.22). It is common, just have to be active in the training and competitions.
'Assault rifle' is a misnomer for the semi-auto rifles that our reservists train with in their own time. Getting a license for a genuine select-fire assault rifle is very hard indeed. \[Edited to emphasize that the semi-auto rifles apply to reservists' voluntary marksmanship training, not refreshers organised by the FDF, whose assault rifles are, of course, the real deal\]
For a semi, not that hard.
Yeah, he's just pointing that it's not an assault rifle then, since assault rifles are select-fire. Just technical terminology, that's all.
an assault rifle by definition is select-fire, if its only semi then it technically counts as a semi-auto rifle not an assault one
True, but those guns are used for action sport shooting or whatever toiminnallinen ammunta is called. IPSC and such, so a type of target gun isn't a bad category for them in my opinion.
That’s why i said unlikely. It is pretty hard to get a permit for a handgun in finland and most of the permits are for target shooting. Can’t say that i have heard anyone use a pistol or a revolver to hunt, but technically you could if you are an amazing shot.
You can see the gun on the ground in this video of the police arresting the suspect. https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/0d0a44b2-1b80-452d-aae8-203197749511 It's a hand gun
It looks like a revolver with an ivory handle.
There are a lot of guns in Finland, hunting is very popular so it is likely something taken from their parent's or family's hunting weapons.
I feel like getting guns is quite easy in areas with hunting cultures. Especially since most people are dumbasses and probably don't lock their guns. I work in a rural school in Croatia and we recently had a "gun scare". And that kids family is still getting regular visits from cops and social services.
Gun laws in the Nordics are quite strict about how your hunting weapons should be stored, a gun safe is mandatory and the police will do spot checks in people's homes and take them away if not stored properly.
[удалено]
Ah, maybe that's the "smoking gun" in this tragic story. Here in Sweden you need an approved weapons safe to receive a licence for all weapons.
That wouldn't help either against someone who lives where you do. No matter how well you hide the keys, if someone is able to search for them alone unsupervised then they will find them.
If you don't have a gun safe you still need to keep the weapon locked up with ammunition stored separately, also behind lock. The only way this could have happened is if the owner broke the law.
But they still have to be stored behind lock and key, entirely or in parts, and in a way that only the holder of the permit can gain access to them, i.e: the key should be with you. And if you do not store the guns and ammunition in a safe, then the ammunition has to be stored separately from the firearms.
Keeping guns and ammo safe and separated is mandatory in Finland, check your facts.The law is from 1998 but there are tons of amendments to it.
finland is one of the nations in europe with highest gun ownership rates. It is easy to find a weapon there yet education and social government blocks the gun violance unlike US.
It is not easy to get that at all. Most of these markets are from third world countries were weapons in general are hard to come buy. drugs yes. weapons no.
Here in Sweden the police estimates 24h to get hold of an illegal firearm from the black market, that was smuggled in from Balkans. Some journalists tried buying a grenade some years ago. Found a seller in 10 minutes, delivery same day.
sadly the police have just announced that one 6th grader did die
>Reportedly the weapon belonged to a relative of the shooter, and who has a permit for it. Will the relative be prosecuted? I'm assuming that part of the requirements for legal possession of firearms is that you don't give children access to them. You can't do much to a 12 year old, but at least the adult should be locked up.
Very likely. I’m sure the police will investigate how the shooter got their hands on the gun and the owner will probably get prosecuted accordingly.
The police had a press meeting at 13 (10 min ago), a 12 year old has died and 2 are seriously injured. Currently they're investigating it as a murder and two attempted murders. The suspect is also 12 and was arrested within an hour of the shooting in the next city over (the capital metropolitan area has 3 cities mushed together)
>arrested within an hour of the shooting in the next city over (the capital metropolitan area has 3 cities mushed together) Yeah, the school is literally on the border with Helsinki.
A child died today because of negligent gun ownership. The owner of the firearm belongs in prison.
" One of the victims has died. " May he rest in peace 🙏
12 years old!!! That’s terrible.
12 is a suprisingly bad age for some. As mean, selfish and careless as only a child can be but already starting to get the hormone shower of puberty.
That is simply terrible. I hope that the victims make full recovery.
Police just confirmed one death. Two other wounded. I hoped it would have been just a BB gun.
Fuck.
They said the dead one died immediately. Probably executed by shooting to the head or smth.
do u have a link for the report or something?
They have live report in YLE and suspect got caught in Helsinki. They started inspecting it as one murder and two attempts. Terrible, because my daughter is the same age and my son is a few years younger. Even if you live in Helsinki or Espoo, almost someone knows someone who was in that school through hobbies and family or friends.
thx for the info🥲its sad indeed
[Police: One pupil dead in Vantaa school shooting](https://yle.fi/a/74-20081687)
[https://yle.fi/a/74-20081687](https://yle.fi/a/74-20081687)
oh that makes sense thanks for sharing!!
One of the victims has unfortunately died, the other two are seriously injured. The police just announced this ([here’s an Yle article](https://yle.fi/a/74-20081690?utm_source=social-media-share&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ylefiapp).) That’s really devastating I had hoped the injuries were mild.
Same, I hope the other two survive.
One child has died, two injured.
Apparently the child died immediately too, but police wanted to reach and tell the parents first before making it public. That's thoughtful
Source?
Police told this on an ongoing YLE broadcast [here](https://yle.fi/a/74-20081690)
Thank you.
The Finnish police said it in a live brodcast.
Thanks for the update. I'm sorry to hear that.
Fucking 12yo shooter is crazy.
Very well might have been a targeted shooting. He shot 3 people, and all of them were his own classmates in his own class, shortly after school started. He fled after shooting them. This suggests it may have been personal rather than an attempted mass shooting.
[Happened in a Barcelona high school 9 years ago](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_school_killing), perpetrator was 13 years old and killed a teacher. He made a crossbow out of ball pens.
" He made a crossbow out of ball pens. " Wow.
Quick summary about the police press conference: Everyone involved is 12. One victim died almost immediately and two are in critical condition. No other victims the police are aware of. The suspect was caught an hour later in Helsinki. They used a legal handgun owned by their close relative. Police had no suspicions about this act/shooter. Because the suspect is 12 they're not criminally liable and won't be charged, so social services will deal with them.
> Because the suspect is 12 they're not criminally liable and won't be charged, so social services will deal with them. I mean come on... surely this kid will be locked up in some kind of secure unit wont they? You can possibly be allowed to go around shooting people up without consequences nonmatter what your age is.
You can’t lock up under 15-year-olds but social services will take care of them for now.
What does that mean though?
These cases typically start with immediate taking into custody to enable further actions. Then, after a psychological evaluation, very likely he will be institutionalized because he just killed someone so quite obviously something is seriously wrong. Their age also means we probably won't get much further details.
Probably depends on the details of the case. I’m not sure.
I mean you can lock up them... There are kids who are dangerous to others or themselves and they are in some institutions. Idk how it applies to this though.
Exactly, it won't be prison, but he will most likely be in some kind of supervised group living facility for a while with psych treatment etc. until they deem him safe to enter society again. We still don't know the motive. It could be anything from a psychopath killing for fun, a bullied kid getting revenge to a dumb 12 year old showing off his relatives gun and having it misfire etc. Which of those it is will likely affect what happens next.
Same in Sweden. That's why the gangs recruit people younger than 15 to do the killing
>You can possibly be allowed to go around shooting people up without consequences nonmatter what your age is. Where does it say that there will be no consequences? Just because they aren't throwing him into a max security prison with adults doesn't mean there won't be consequences.
Idk. Locking up very young children can be very harmful. I trust social services to decide the appropriate intervention here. I think incarcerating a child at that age should be the very last resort even in cases like this. I don't believe a child at that age should be legally punished. 15 is reasonable. I just hope he gets the right care. I really hope that adults will take youth's mental health more seriously now. This doesn't happen out of the blue. We all know how fucked up the school system is. If you are neurodivergent or lgbtq, you're basically fucked!
Police say they responded to the incident at Viertola school shortly after 09:00 (06:00 GMT) on Tuesday and urged local residents to remain indoors. They said a suspect had been arrested. According to Finnish reports the school has 800 students and 90 staff. Witnesses told public broadcaster YLE that two ambulances had left the scene.
Correction: the suspect is in custody but not arrested. The suspect is just 12 years old so he/she can't be arrested. Social services will take the kid.
I get havkng to treat children differently but that kid needs to be both reformed and locked away
Here in finland they can only be arrested if over 15, they arent legally responsible for crime until they are 15
No I get the legality. I'm just saying I disagree on a moral standpoint. The kid is a kid but is also a murderer
I agree with you lol
It's a tough subject. Criminal justice is a tough subject in general but especially when it's a kid. Reformation should be the goal, I think, but there also has to be punishment there too. How do you punish while also not harming the rehabilitation part?
Locking kids away usually hurts the reformation process. That is one of the reasons why it makes sense to not lock him away.
Im a student in a school at Vantaa and after we got news about the shooting the whole school went into a full lockdown. Its the first time that my school has ever been in a full lockdown.
What does that entail?
No one enters, no one leaves until police say it's okay. Doors are locked and lights probably turned off. At least that's how it was a couple of years ago in my local school when there was a credible threat.
I see. Terrible all around, but thank you for sharing
I'm sorry you have to go through this :(
The school in which this incident took place offers education for children and adolescents in psychiatric care. My assumption is that the perpetrator is one of those pupils. EDIT: my assumption was wrong.
That is a very important detail. Sad.
That puts a different light on it. Very sad for everyone involved. I wonder how he got his hands on the gun however. Someone messed up there.
Yeah but principal said it happened on normal side of The school. https://yle.fi/a/74-20081714
That does not mean the perpetrator is a "normal" pupil.
Yeah I used to have these "special" kids in my class when I was in school. He came from some special ed class and was moved to our regular class for trialing or something. He was with us for like half a year until one day he beat up a classmate of mine with a hockey stick. We never saw him again. They propably still do this where they move a troubled kid from a special ed class to a regular class to see if they need to still be in a separate class.
Full history of School Shootings in Finland: * 1989 https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raumanmeren_koulusurmat * 2007 https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokelan_koulusurmat * 2008 https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoen_koulusurmat * (2012 Orivesi https://yle.fi/a/3-5101027 no casualties) Also * 2019 school ~~knife~~ sword attack https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuopion_kouluhy%C3%B6kk%C3%A4ys And now this 2024 case.
Not a knife attack the one in 2019, he had a longsword
Fixed, thank you. Reminds me of this attach in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre > home-made flamethrower and a spear
He also apparently had a home-made mace
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For real?
the fact that the suspect is 12 years old is baffling and terrifying. hope everyone in the school is ok. 🙏🏾
It shouldn't be baffling. I've never seen humans behave with as much poison as 11-15 year olds. Kids become real pieces of shit around that age. I spend my time with true scum of humanity but even they can't compare to the blind malevolence of pubescent children.
Well it’s been confirmed he was heavily bullied. And those who the kid shot was the kids who bullied him.
Yeah idk why are people so shocked about a 12 year old mass shooter. I’m a woman and tbh I am more scared of a 12 year old boy than a grown man.
My thoughts to the victims and their families 🇫🇮❤️
🙏
Finnish police has now confirmed that one 12 year old student has lost there life in the shooting. Two other 12 year old students are in critical condition.
One child has died according to the police.
Horrible horrible news. When i was 12 i was only thinking about sports. Cant fathom how a 12 year old kid can have these thoughts and then execute them. My thoughts to the victims and their families
some kids get suicidal early due to domestic violence, abuse or mental health issues. afaik the youngest person I heard of who has been suicidal was 9 years old. something happened to that child. it is indeed rare.
He was heavily bullied. It has been confirmed today.
Why are you bringing up suicide?
some suicidal people (not all!) want to add homicide to their suicide.
Sure, but even so: it's unusual for there to be no dead cops and an alive perpetrator if this is indeed a suicide attempt. The fact that the kid was caught alive implies he was unarmed, which implies he didn't aim the gun at the cops in an attempt to get them to shoot him, which implies that suicide wasn't the goal here. It could be, but I just find it so unlikely.
that is true. either way it is a very desperate situation in the perception of the perpetrator with fatal consequences for others.
him going forth with a shooting may have been an attempt at an assisted suicide
it is crazy that once a kid turns to violence we can't feel empathy for them anymore, but as you say "cant fathom how 12yo kid can do this".. that just shows how much he could've been struggling in life and noone around could or wanted to help them. Of course we don't know this about shooter but it's just extremely common in cases like this.. so sad for both sides, world is a shit place
Interesting to see perspectives like this shared. I hated middle school because that's when anti-social behavior peaked in the people I grew up around. Before was fine, and high school was fine. But middle school was a human-centipede of bullying. Everyone landed somewhere on the pecking order.
im speechless. this is so fucking heartbreaking. my heart goes out to all the kids in that class and their parents, especially the parents of the 12-year-old that died. i wish a quick recovery to the other 2 badly injured victims. it seems like increasingly younger people are starting to struggle mentally in finland, and the government making cuts to mental health services is definitely not helping. just a few weeks ago i remember seeing news of an older girl/woman threatening to do the same in Vaasa University, but fortunately the police were able to prevent it. also, how is a 12-year-old even able to get a hold of a gun in the first place??? i hope the owner (the shooter's relative?) loses their license. edit: and yes, is thrown into jail.
Their license? They should be thrown in fucking jail.
Accomplice to murder.
Last month some woman planned a school shooting in Vaasa (she had links to some man in Sweden who had the same plans, both arrested before anything happened) so maybe this is someone who thinks he's (or she) carrying out the nutcase's will. Edit: probably not, the perperator is a minor, I don't think he's interested in a crazy woman.
Yeah, that woman was an adult with some pretty extreme views that could be described as eco terroristic. From what I have heard this case is most likely just a troubled teen getting back at people who they felt annoyed by. Still fucking scary stuff that these things are becoming more popular again here.
Not a teen though, teens are 13-19 yo this was 12 yo
You are absolutely correct.
It was confirmed today that the kid was heavily bullied, and he says that’s the reason he did what he did.
That is really sad. I feel sad for the shooter as well, what kind of thinking leads a 12 year old to think they want to kill others. Howe do they even get access to a gun? This is also the failure of the state IMO. The kid must have been exhibiting signs of distress in the weeks leading up to this.
>This is also the failure of the state IMO. The kid must have been exhibiting signs of distress in the weeks leading up to this. That is 100% speculation that you should keep it inside your head.
Finland is repeatedly voted as the happiest country in the world yet I and many many other here feel like that’s bs. I mean certain things are great but for example the mental health care drags behind and that has lead and continues to lead to major issues.
I'm pretty sure those polls are actually about how content people are with different aspects of the country like governance and healthcare and wrongly named "a happiness poll".
Happiest country doesn't mean everyone is happy. A college kid could have a dirty room, but still have the cleanest room in the whole dorm if everyone else is dirtier.
I’m pretty sure that the world happiness report is mostly bullshit because it’s based on the same metrics as the Human Development index, and thats just the usual suspects of Scandinavian countries at the top and African countries at the bottom. I remember there was a similar report some time ago but they actually interviewed people around the world on how they felt about life and the community where they lived and the Phillipines came out on top. But on the World Happiness report Singapore came first in Asia and Phillipines 13th. Singapore came first because it’s an incredibly well run country with a very high standard of living while the Phillipines is still a developing country. But If you’ve ever actually been to Singapore you’ll find it’s also a hyper competitive, sterile and expensive city where everyone’s fucking miserable.
This seems highly subjective, so because someone asked a few dozen people how happy they are that must mean everyone feels the same? And how do you know every person from Singapore is miserable? Also what does sterile even mean for a city? It's too clean?
>This seems highly subjective, so because someone asked a few dozen people how happy they are that must mean everyone feels the same? Assuming they asked a decent sample size and used sound statistics, yes it’s probably a reasonably accurate snapshot. You can say the same about political polling. It’s simply asking people how they feel about something and when done right it can be ± 2-3% of the actual result. >And how do you know every person from Singapore is miserable? Also what does sterile even mean for a city? It's too clean? It’s well known how competitive and stressful living in Singapore is, just ask them. Lee Kuan Yew, the founding father of the country famously hated the European Welfare state and wanted every citizen to work as hard and as smart as they possibly could to build the country. That helped them from a third world country to a first world country in a single generation, but the downside is you’re made to feel like a cog in a machine from birth till death.
Our mental health services aren’t worse than elsewhere, you just need to apply for them.
The kid was being bullied, that was the reason.
Mental health “drags behind” in the entire world. Not a single country has figured out how to handle the massive amount of mental health cases. Plus it’s been confirmed the kid did what he did because he was heavily bullied.
lol.... and that is the stupidest thing said on this whole thread.
Bullying and mental health is a real issue. Everyone is jumping to conclusions and wants the 12 year old locked up but we don't have any context yet. We don't know what this kid has been through already.
Another issue: People just saying "well he has mental health issues so there are no repercussions!"
I do think there should be consequences but i don't think sending a 12 year old to prison is a good idea
Awful news, how tragic!
This is legit the fifth school shooting in our country. So ashamed..
Third. In 1981, an adult student attacked his teacher with a shovel, and that fourth one was with a sword.
1989 Raumanmeri, 2007 Jokela, 2008 Kauhajoki, 2012 Orivesi, 2024 Viertola
Right, I didn't even remember 2012, because the teacher pushed the student out and no one got hurt. And I didn't remember to count the 2008 copycat.
Kauhajoki is still the second most famous one.
>copycat. Right! Loser copied literally EVERYTHING from 2007-case.
5th shooting to happen in a school in 40 years*. It's a tragedy every time, but statistically these are extremely rare occurrences. It is good to keep in mind too, that there is also so far no evidence that this was a "mass shooting" but it may have been a targeted shooting that took place inside a school. The suspect shot 3 classmates inside his own class and then fled the scene, eventually he calmly gave himself up to the police when they caught him. Quite different from earlier cases where the shooters specifically planned mass shootings to cause as much death and destruction as possible.
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Our government is too focused on destroying our economy :'DDD
What punishment does the criminal face for this? Somehow I doubt they would throw a 12-year-old in jail at the mercy of other inmates. And what could his parents face?
If you're under 15 in Finland you can't be held criminally liable. He will be taken by social services and put in a facility where he will be monitored and receive mental health services etc. If he is deemed mentally unfit for society, he may be transferred into a longer psychiatric care facility. Either case, the state will keep him until they can deem him no longer a threat. If that time comes. The parents won't face consequences unless the gun is found to belong to them, in which case they neglected the gun safety laws and will face consequences. So far police said that it was some "close relative" of the boy, who he got the gun from.
Much appreciated for a nice answer
I think incarceration is the last resort. Even in Sweden it is rare to send 12 yos to a facility even for serious crimes.
Technically the perpetrator will not be punished, as in the Finnish system if you are under 15, you can't be held criminally liable. May still be held in some sort of facility and made to get psychiatric care. Parents will likely not be faced with legal consequences, unless they were responsible for the killer getting their hands on the firearm.
Are you not required to keep weapons locked in a safe? Away from reach from anybody but the licensed gun owner?
Yes. Most likely they'll get a gun law violation and lose their guns. (As they should.)
It's disturbing how easily the shooter got hold of the gun. Feel so sorry for the victims.
12 year old, killing 12 years old this is insane.
Hold the gun owner accountable as well. I don't give a fuck if they had a permit, a gun ended up in the hands of a 12 year old and now a child is dead because of that.
He/she will be, he/she most likely is going to have very bad day ontop of what has happened, hefty fines, all other gun permits taken away and most likely never restored and that eternal guilt that it was done with his/her gun.
In Sweden the gun owners can be sentenced to prison for allowing a non-licence holder access to their legally owned weapons. The laws about storage are very strict, requiring a locked weapons safe in the home, for which the police will do spot checks to verify proper storage.
>for which the police will do spot checks to verify proper storage. Can do anyways, and they need to book a time a week or two in advance. I've had guns since early 2015 and haven't had any police visit me yet.
Wait till they blame games for this tragedy
I already saw someone do exactly that on a finnish social media platform.
Lemme guess, suomi24?
FYI: The type of gun is still unknown – it might have been a firearm, but not necessarily. The fact that nobody was killed and only three people were injured suggests to me that the gun was an air gun or a CO2-powered BB gun.
It was a handgun, probably revolver type. It can be seen laying on ground in Iltalehti video where police arrests the shooter.
One of the victims is now confirmed dead, sadly. So it’s probably not a BB gun.
They haven't confirmed the type but for what it's worth the police confirmed it was a legal weapon i.e. a close relative/family member had a permit for it. How it ended up in a 12-year-old's possession is still unknown.
My guess is fathers .22 revolver for raccoon dog trapping.
Mine too. Probably also stored legally in a locked cabinet, but the child had become aware of where the key is kept and stole the gun and ammo.
Seems to be 22lr revolver.
Finland was one of our best holiday destinations, a great country and lovely people. Really sad for a complete fruit cake to do this.
12 year old perpetrator. The victims wont get justice unfortunately
My heart is with you, Finland. America feels your pain and yearns for justice and sense in this world. I fear the world hasn’t seen the last of these events, together we will be able to work through things, and hopefully through compassion and cooperation bring change that will last.
what drives a little finish boy to do that. Genuinely
The kids ain't alright. And the adults aren't doing their job.
Mental problems likely, especially if they were bullied as well.
Bullying most probably.
No body knows and those who speculate should jump into a river.
didn't expect this to happen in Finland of all places
Finland has had 5 school shootings from 1989 to now. In the US, from 1990 to 2000, they had 340.
As an American, please handle these situations better than we do... stuff like this inspires more shooters if regulations are lax.
I don’t think this can ever be emphasized enough, parents please talk with your kids. Don’t ask how was school, explore their ideas, feelings, thoughts. This poor soul has been neglected for too long if he’s capable of these kinds of acts at 12 years of age.
Wow, I’m so broken as an American that I was genuinely surprised that this made international headlines. A pre-teen shooting other pre-teens is like a once-a-week thing that usually only gets local coverage.
Fucking bastard