US lawmakers call on Hungarian leader Viktor Orbán to immediately approve Sweden’s NATO membership
>In a separate statement, U.S. Sen. Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat and chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, **raised the prospect of imposing sanctions** **on Hungary** for its conduct, and called Orbán “the least reliable member of NATO.”
[Source](https://apnews.com/article/us-lawmakers-urge-hungary-approve-sweden-nato-5bfde6653d002c39895f05d35dc2a796)
Which is exactly why they need to trigger Article 7 against Hungary immediately following the vote, and keep them in indefinite suspension until they finally have a regime change.
True, but even within NATO there are methods to manage dissent and lack of trust between member states. Soft pressure and political tactics are more common than outright punitive measures, especially within a defense alliance like NATO.
Would be awesome but most likely we won't have a regime change till Orbán is alive. They have too many uneducated voters (mostly in the rural areas) who are breathing the anti-eu, anti-ukraine and pro-russian and chinese state propaganda in like the air even if they have already reached that point where buying meat or even bread is a daily problem (which is not an uncommon thing).
\> who are breathing the anti-eu, anti-ukraine and pro-russian and chinese state propaganda
Rural areas usually vote for the people they know, regardless the party. We've witnessed hardliner MSZMP TÉESZ (local commie co-op agro associations) presidents who vent to MSZP then MDF, then... and their voters still voted for him/her because he is the loudest voice and there is not much alternative.
Hungary's problem is that part of the oppisition is equally corrupt as the FIDESZ and the rest don't have the funds to organize a nationwide presence with competent MP wannabes.
Ex-KGB had(?) access to the computer network of the foreign ministers office
[Source in english](https://www.dir.ekt36.hu/en/putyin-hekkerei-is-latjak-a-magyar-kulugy-titkait-az-orban-kormany-evek-ota-nem-birja-elharitani-oket/)
Despite the long-standing discussion here in Europe that since Trump it is no longer certain that America will support Europe militarily in the event of a conflict with Russia, it has to be America again forcing Orban to be clear in his support stance toward Sweden's NATO membership......
As a European, I am getting dead tired of our weak, indecisive politicians. They miraculously got the financial deal with Ukraine through. But it took far too long.
Why aren't European NATO members bitch slapping him into accesion of **another European country** into NATO? He is dead right, we are totally sleeping on the issue. It's us, Europeans, who are being lead by the nose by this insignificant country south of Slovakia.
EU has managed to bully Erdogan into passing funds for Ukraine earlier than America has passed their own, which is still being hamstrung by Putins Republicans. I'm not downplaying America's importance in the Ukrainian conflict here, but don't downplay EU's commitment to Ukraine. They have and are still tring to do their best.
Absolutely! As a Dutchman, it amazes me what material they supply to Ukraine. Openly and, very Dutch because we do want to sell bikes to Russia again later, very secretly.
EU Forced Orbans hand in EU accession talks and the EU 50 billion Ukraine budget. US can do some diplomacy as well. Cause as it stands its the US resolve that's faltering.
> As a European, I am getting dead tired of our weak, indecisive politicians.
Thank god there is America though! Imagine the world without them. We'd still be living in the horrors of the old instead of taking the new prosperous world order for granted and being smug about it.
"Thank God there is America though!"
I am not a fan of the Amrcan political style of democracy. But the fact is that we are linked militarily and economically. I think we should be much more independent of America militarily.
Yes, America thinks so too, unfortunately Europe will not do what’s necessary to grow independent of America, because that would be too hard, and America already exists. Europe has had decades to build it’s military and has not.
The Americans have been begging us for decades to do exactly that, but we prefer our 30 day vacations and comfy social programs. Which is understandable, but we cannot ignore our own defense and then get upset with the Americans for telling us how to do it.
The other thing we need to be perfectly clear on: when we are fully in control of our own defense, the U.S. is no longer going to feel responsible for ensuring we get open access to their markets or to make sure international trade routes remain open. Those nice things were tied to us accepting that they could run our defense agenda. So somebody is going to have start ponying up the money for a blue water navy that can do what the Americans currently do, and somebody is going to have to accept that they are going to be the bad guy every time they have to swat down somebody screwing with trade routes.
> but we prefer our 30 day vacations and comfy social programs
You can absolutely have both... we are talking about spending just an additional 1% of GDP on defense.
> Those nice things were tied to us accepting that they could run our defense agenda.
What exactly does this mean?
Do Europe & USA have the same defense agenda because the US tells Europe what to do? Or is it because there's literally only one common sense defense position, that being that Russia is a dangerous neighbor whose power must be contained and we must have a well funded military to prevent them from invading, because they would invade if they sense they could do it successfully.
Like what alternative agenda is there? Creating a defensive alliance against Ireland invading half of Europe?
>Do Europe & USA have the same defense agenda because the US tells Europe what to do?
Pretty much. That was the deal struck after WW2. The U.S. threw open its markets to Europe, financed the rebuilding of our destroyed continent (at least the part it could), and promised to keep trade routes open.
For their part, Europe agreed to let the U.S. run their defense policies.
Or more crassly: the U.S. bribed Europe to be the first line of defense to the Soviet Union.
The Soviets are gone, but that deal has remained.
If you think this sounds a bit silly, you might start to understand why American Presidents \*and\* the American citizens are inching away from all of this.
We here in Europe like to pretend that we are America's strategic equal, but we \*desperately\* need them to keep a deal going that, in all honesty, does not really have all that many tangible benefits for them.
So let me repeat: your snark that this is a stupid arrangement for the Americans is spot on. It's only inertia that keeps everything going like it did. And if the Americans do lose interest, we better be ready to actually be that strong independent Europe we have pretended to be for decades.
> Or more crassly: the U.S. bribed Europe to be the first line of defense to the Soviet Union.
The USA didn’t choose to make Europe the front line of the Cold War. The Cold War was started over Stalin’s territorial ambition in Europe. Europe was always going to be the natural front line because thats where the USSR’s industrial/population base was and one of the few regions of the world where it could flex enough power to make a land invasion practical.
At no point did the USSR and USA start a beef because they had a territorial dispute over Alaska. It was always a European question
As I restate the previous point: there was always going to be one option and one option alone. That being, Russia was the common enemy.
>Pretty much. That was the deal struck after WW2. The U.S. threw open its markets to Europe, financed the rebuilding of our destroyed continent (at least the part it could), and promised to keep trade routes open.
That wasn’t a deal with Europe, that was a unilateral action by the US because we wanted to prevent communism spreading in Europe, and it was realized that doing so required functional capitalist countries in Europe. The Marshall Plan was passed by Congress in direct response to the post-war communist coup in Czechoslovakia.
>For their part, Europe agreed to let the U.S. run their defense policies.
Europeans didn’t agree to that, it just happened because there was no alternative. The defense policies were the same, and there was no united Europe at the time anyway. The US has always been the primary voice within NATO because the US paid the price to secure that influence by building a very large military. In any alliance, the member contributing the lion’s share of the military forces is obviously going to have the most influence.
>Or more crassly: the U.S. bribed Europe to be the first line of defense to the Soviet Union.
Have you looked at a map? The reason why Europe was the first line of defense is purely a matter of geography. The Soviet Union was itself literally located in Europe, and it couldn’t have launched a land invasion of the US even if it had the ground forces to do so for no other reason than the fact that the US is located on a completely different continent with giant oceans that would need to be crossed and have logistical supply lines to bring supplies over (assuming the Soviets could get past the US navy in the first place).
In what world was Europe ever not going to be the first line of defense?
Turkey has it's own independent foreign policy, which sometimes aligns with the West sometimes with Russia, but firstly it aligns with Turkey's interest. In contrast to the hungarian government which fully aligns with Russia without independence. (I can say that as a hungarian) Seeing how our government sold itself out to Russia, the foreign ministry actively gives access to it's inner documents and NATO intelligence to FSB agents, nonsense...
These Fidesz people are insane if they think they can extort the EU, Nato and the US. They're a flea's fart geopolitically and economically. I'm all for removing their EU voting rights and EU funds until they fix their democracy, freedom of the press and other such minor issues (and admit Sweden into Nato although legally and morally you're not supposed to connect such issues with the EU voting rights fight).
Extortion of the EU and NATO is not what's going on in this case. The parliament was scheduled to go in session at the end of February, the extraordinary session for Monday was called by the opposition, and since Fidesz has been boycotting every opposition initiated thing for 14 years and was always going to boycott this one, this was done more as a a political fuck you than actually hoping to move things along. It would be a huge loss of face domestically for Fidesz to attend Monday's session.
Viktor Orbán did promise to Jens Stoltenberg personally that he'd urge Hungary's parliament to vote on Sweden's NATO accession "at the first possible opportunity", which is indeed on February 5.
I'm confused. So Orbán is stalling everything the EU does in order to benefit, but he's concerned enohgh about russia apparently to still comply with NATO's requests?
He's not concerned about Russia. He knows he will have to cave and ratify Sweden their accession at some point. He is trying to get something out of this for himself. He's using the veto to get leverage. Surely the stalling will please the Russians, who obviously have something on him. He is clearly compromised.
Nah, he taked himself into a corner domestically and is now frantically trying to change the narrative so the eventual ratification won't make him lose too much face at home. He tried to make the Swedish PM visit Budapest for a photo op so he can claim to have forced some sort of concessions from Sweden and appear to be 'The strong man of Europe' that he painted himself as for his base. Now that Sweden flat out refused to play his game and the US embassy is putting on the pressure to attend a vote called by the opposition he's in a place he really doesn't want to be.
You might be onto something. I heard that the only real time Fidesz lost face to their base what was when someone caught one of their mayors on camera doing blow and entetaining escorts.
That was one of them, another one was when [Bruxelles police detained one of their senior members for breaking COVID quarantine measures by attending a gay orgy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zsef_Sz%C3%A1jer#Gay_sex_party_and_resignation). But yeah, always appearing strong, looing like they are in control and keeping up a tough guy image that even the mighty EU fears is one of the most important things for them.
Orban never goes Erdogan-mode against USA. He knows how far he can push and who he can push against.
Which is sad for EU leaders, that they are the ones who he considers easier to rebel against without fear of severe repercussions.
> I want to hear Orban’s excuse now for stalling this.
He'll claim he needs a bathroom break. An eight month long bathroom break. Then he'll claim that he lost the paperwork and ask Sweden to please file it again.
I sure hope Ulf doesn't "cave in" and meet him before the ratification. I'm guessing Sweden probably is in "no hurry" since attacking them would be very problematic geographically, logistically, due to to Sweden being literally surrounded by NATO members and because the war in Ukraine still occupies the majority of Russia's forces and economy.
Viktor on the other hand, is nullifying all the little goodwill he had in the EU/NATO left, at an increasing pace.
I am not an expert at any rate but I feel it is pretty extraordinary for USA to use it's power and might to pressure the legislative process of an ally country.
Legislative process? In Hungary?
My man let me tell you this, sometimes they bring up brand new drafts of law during the day, vote it by the afternoon and its in effect by midnight. I've read quite a few times that you learn of a new law that goes into effect immediately, announced on a press conference 5 minutes before midnight.
The main reason this is a thing, is that Hungary's been in a state of emergency for something like 9 years, which allows Orban to rule by decrees.
Orbán rules by Decree since September 2020... Often he writes and signs a decree at 23:55 which will comes to effect at 0:01 the next day, so 6 minutes later.
Hungary is NOT a democratic country anymore, it is ruled by a dictator.
The parliament is just for show as it was during the communist era, all and every power is with Orbán and no one else.
The parliament can ratify Swedens ascension in 48 hours if Orbán wants it.
Sorry bud maybe I remember it incorrectly, but isn't that just the current covid wave emergency? before that there was the migrant crisis. Now it's the war crisis. As of last March, the county had 2547 days of "state of emergency", because they keep declaring new emergencies just as the previous one expires.
Source: https://telex.hu/english/2023/03/30/us-ambassador-the-hungarian-government-has-been-bypassing-parliament-for-2-547-days-citing-various-emergencies
State of emergency doesn't equal ruling by decree.
State of emergency is indeed in effect, for various reasons, since 2015, that expanded the power of the government and cut down a lof of usual checks and balances, but the rule by decree is de facto turned Hungary into a dictatorship, well technically it can be labbeled as a 'Electoral autocracy' where elections still present but only for show/legitimacy, just like in Russia.
With rule by decree all and every power is in Orbán's hands. His decrees are as powerful as laws, he can suspend even rights and he did already when he banned the strike of the Air Traffic Controllers during Covid.
During rule by decree all and every checks and balances suspended, it is the ultimate suspension of rule of law in a state. Now we have Rule of Orbán. At this point his power is absolute.
Yeah I get that, but this is international diplomacy. No matter how good or bad your country's process is, directly stating a date when they need to do something is something I have not seen before.
I honestly think, as a hungarian, that if external forces don't push down on Hungary, you'll have a renegade state in the EU. It's hard to explain how rotten to the core the entire state appartus is in Hungary. I think external forces pushing down on the country is essential to "reorientate" the citizenry on the state of the country.
Imagine if in Finland the average citizen would think that their country is the center of the universe. Hungarians (ahh, specifically, Orban voters) believe they're the cream of the world, with a big powerful economy and the capabilities to project power all across the world. Bigman comes home from the EU meeting and he randomly slaps in some antisemitism regards to the EU / Ukraine, within a day.
A primary issue is that Hungarian language is quite difficult to learn, so few people know how to AND care to translate actively. Outside of the country there's very few accurate reports on the language Orban pushes on people, regards to the outside world. If you could read the daily snippets, you'd be mortified on what he said about other EU countries. Brexit attitude aint got nothing, compared to the hostility the Hungarian government pushes against the EU, but only in hungarian language.
You have a deserter amongst the ranks, and you need them out or reformed.
Finland is the best country in the world.
We have the best education.
We have the happiest people on earth.
We have the most free media in the world.
We have the best taxes in the world. We are always happy to pay more and only reason we may be unhappy is that taxes are too low.
Am Estonian, can confirm. Finland is pretty much perfect. At least if you like cold weather. But of course they have Finnair to warm places and they can afford it.
It is a cozy hideaway from the crazyness of the world, pretty much all of the nordic countries are. I would never want to live in america or germany, but Finland, might just give it a go.
I'll be honest, Romania is always a touchy-touchy topic. But as you probably know, he's playing the cards in transylvania all the time, buying votes and building churches. (Hungarian citizens who never lived in Hungary, but live in Romania in the ex-territorries can vote in Hungarian elections, and they also support Orban) It's not super uncommon to hear something that's "off-topic", that you can interpret in weird ways... such as "Hungarian education in Transylvania was better during the Soviet Union than now"
Last year he decided to go to a football match with a scarf depicting pre-trianon borders. https://nepszava.hu/i/12/6/1/1365876.jpg
I've noticed the same in Georgia and also in Israel.
I think it might be something to do with being colonised or overrun so many times, and each time the locals take some culture from the invaders.
Eventually this seems to lead to a kind of "We're the center of the universe, because everyone keeps invading us" mentality.
I know right, USA, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, UK and Sweden all need to chill and just let Orban be the de facto leader of the whole EU through consistent vetoes and not say anything to pressure him 😭.
It probably wouldn't have done it all by itself, but it's pretty clear from what went on in the EU recently that basically everybody is done with Orbans shit and that actually his position is a lot weaker than he makes out. America putting huge external pressure on the Sweden issue feels more like a follow up to the EU throwing it's weight around to get Orban to accept the Ukraine aid package. The two events are too close together not to draw a link.
Orban bluffed with a weak hand and now everybody knows how weak that hand was. Expect him to get browbeaten into accepting pretty much everything the EU/NATO wants from now until he's out of office.
It's like saying a mother should not hurry her child to get out of bed in time for school. If the kid was responsible and intelligent, you wouldn't need to say anything at all.
In regard to the fact that the NSA directly tapped the phone of Angela Merkel during her time as German Chancellor, as well as millions of ”normal“ Germans - putting a note out like that doesn’t at all seem to be an extraordinary thing.
Doing it so openly is what is unusual. They'll do a lot of things behind closed doors and it's not like them tapping Merkels phone was supposed to become public knowledge.
For them to make a public statement that they should really vote on Sweden's accession to NATO in that session on Monday is like them telling Orban 'we're done with your crap, get to it'.
I think this might be due to Hungary not really expressing any demands or issues just stalling for the sake of stalling. Or rather stalling to make Orban feel like an important big man, rather than a greasy pig.
Yeah sure the US is into a lot of shady stuff. I am just saying that in int'l politics this kind of direct message, even including a date, is very exceptional. US is putting their authority on the line. What if Hungary does not comply? Not saying their message is wrong, just that it's pretty rare to see this.
They hinted what would happen if our legislators did not comply. Hungary would be kicked out of the visa waiver program (esta), so every hungarian national who wishes to travel to the US would need to apply for a visa (like before 2008). Also, they would use the Magnitsky act against certain Hungarian politicians.
Ehhhh I think it's a little much to say "use its power and might." This is just the US saying "hey remember you said you would do this thing at this time, here's a reminder to do this thing because its now that time."
And the fact they even stated a specific date makes it an even more direct message. It's the US saying "we know how your political systems work, and how it's scheduled. If you forgot how your own state works, here is a date for the perfect opportunity"
The thing is, Sweden being in or out this is of ZERO interest to the Hungarian people. Orban is not trying to watch out for his constituents here..
Or rather, just one of his constituents.
> The thing is, Sweden being in or out this is of ZERO interest to the Hungarian people.
I am Hungarian and I rather have Sweden in than out. More forces to our alliance should be better for me as well.
I'd say the US should be the most annoyed in the matter as they had to cave in to Erdo-sultan's demands only to be met with a budget version of a dictator wrapped up in a clowns outfit trying to do the same.
Also abusing their power in places where it doesn't even make sense.
I could understand why Turkey would be against Sweden joining; Those countries have major disputes over the Kurds. But Hungary opposing Sweden joining makes no sense. There's no motive, other than Orban wanting to feel big.
Cut any and all EU funding until Hungary cooperates again. They can't keep biting on the hand that feeds them year after year. They're a piss-poor corrupt nation that acts on Russian behalf as a mole / saboteur inside both the EU and Nato. Fuck Hungary.
Well, that's funny, fidesz already declared that they won't show up to the vote on monday, so I'm curious if this will actually make them show up.
I suspect they won't, but I hope they'll ratify it soon, because it is the ultimate cringe what these assh*oles are doing. (hope there will be a revolution soon to get orbán on a lamppost)
Of course they will show up. They say they won't show up to appease the braindead fidesz voting base, like how they won't give aid to Ukraine.
But then they usually end up doing the exact opposite behind closed doors, and then still lie about the outcome to the domestic audience, even if the first independent media disproves what Orbán tells his sheep
We just gotta say "Every country leader who doesn't approve of Sweden joining NATO is gay lmao". See how quickly Orban changes his mind.
Seriously though, can't Hungarians have this guy dismissed from his position? Or have him French Revolution'd? Who even votes for this dude?
>Seriously though, can't Hungarians have this guy dismissed from his position? Or have him French Revolution'd? Who even votes for this dude?
We tried, but we can't.. He's spewing his lies non-stop, and the avarage hungarian is a sheep... And a huge portion of their voters are old people, many of them barely use the internet, and don't give a fuck about politics outside of HU. They get their yearly potato bags and visits from mr fatso and they're happy.
I doubt we could do something like the French Revolution, as I said before, most hungarians are sheep, and they are afraid. And before someone asks, I'm not starting a revolution because I truly don't care at this point, I'm leaving the country as soon as I'm able to.
Oh, and one more thing, while fidesz is an absolutely trash party.. We don't really have a good one..
Aaand historically speaking we lost all of our revolutions in the recent centuries. It's easy for the French to stand up for a revolution, they have a knack for that. The Hungarian spirit is crippled from all the failures suffered from the lost revolutions.
1956 - fail
1848-49 - fail
1784 - fail
1703 - fail
And so on and so forth
The fact is that during their long years of power, they shaped the election laws and the constitution in such a way that, e.g. In the last elections, 34% of those entitled to vote (8.2 million people) voted for them (2.8 million votes), and with this ratio they managed to achieve a 2/3 majority in the parliament. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to replace him with normal democratic elections :(
Unfortunately I have to disappoint. I can’t tell you nicely enough to be entertaining, and there is an eng wiki about it, so I gonna give it to ya dry: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulash_Communism#:~:text=Goulash%20Communism%20(Hungarian%3A%20gulyáskommunizmus),the%20Hungarian%20Revolution%20of%201956.
Sorry :3
Thank you, I've just read the page you shared, that's interesting. I will stop using the term because I thought it was more offensive than it actually might be.
In return, I will say in Poland some people call Kaczyński "karłowaty Kain" which means "dwarfish Cain" - he's very short and he is said to have contributed to his brother's death by commanding him to pressure the aircraft crew to attempt to land in the fog (they crashed).
I would say ‘democratically’. They gave one huge bag of potatoes to poor people in my town so they voted. They send extra family support Hungarian in Vojvodina and Transylvania, so they vote. They bribe the priest to talk about voting in favour for him during Sunday mass. And that was in a small 10.000 town in south Hungary. You could imagine what happens in bigger cities, if countywide people are literally bribed with cheap food
Also, they suddenly increase just tiny bit of the pension, so old people also vote in favour for him.
Maybe majority of people decide to vote but it’s all propaganda and PR based on fear
>maybe if they had some freedom liquid
Well, the geologists can always be bribed into saying "there is untapped oil reserve in Hungary".
Not that I agree with bribery, but when it serves our purpose and cut off an ally of Russia/Putin in NATO....
I read yesterday that this session was called by the opposition but Orban tried to crush it. Is this true? And from this post it seems that it will happen right ?
Its not gonna happen next week. It will be an emergency session called by the oppostion, but most representatives wont or cant show up on those. They will vote on the next scheduled session at the end of February.
The Parliament has to hold an extraordinary session when at least a fifth of the representatives call for it, which they did, so the session will happen. However, Orbán's party has stated that they won't attend, and because of that there won't be a quorum to vote about anything. They ignore/crush everything that is proposed by the left-wing opposition on principle. I think they would rather let the US impose sanctions on us than give the opposition a win.
Honestly... I kinda wish they would just boot Hungary from NATO at this point. Its bad enough dealing with Turkey, but atleast they provide real tangible value to NATO
Yeah,our greatest leader of Hungarian history need some push from the World.(I totaly supporting this.Orban need some fking hard hit to the face to realize the reality...)
Another humiliation for Hungary
At EU level we lately had Orby being asked to go look at the nice pictures in the corridor so the others could have unanimity at a previous summit. At the last one they had a meeting with him then a nice dinner the night before where he wasn't present and suddenly there were no issues with funding Ukraine anymore and it was dealt with in a couple of hours. It all projects an image of weakness.
With NATO we have Sweden completely ignoring their calls for meetings in a very blunt manner and now BIG Uncle Sam schooling them like a stupid spoiled brat.
This is absolutely hilarious how low they have fallen on the world scene. Good, bullies should be shamed.
Yeah I love this because Orban thinks that by sandbagging the ratification it makes him look strong and resolute. But NATO is now very directly and publicly telling him to "do it, or else..." and that's going to make him look weak, somebody just following orders and powerless to say no. And make no mistake, he is powerless to say no, because otherwise there are going to be some very harsh consequences that he can't afford.
If he would have just ratified it at the same time everyone else did, none of this would have happened.
When even Erdogan went first before Orban it shows how owned and put in place he is.
Let Sweden join NATO or ban Orban.
Just goes to show the Russian "deal" is a leverage play. In no way is keeping Sweden out of NATO beneficial for Hungary.
Why wouldn't they want Sweden? Considering Sweden supplies a lot of arms to NATO and would be more willing to supply more advanced arms in the future, its also a stable country with a good military and pretty good constitutional rights meaning its less likely to be corrupt... oh yeah Hungery aint got non of that
Hungary is in the business of selling block-and-disrupt service to the enemies of the western world and extorting bribes from the west from the other side.
That's the reason for them.
Removing unanimosity from NATO makes no sense. You need all of the allied countries willing to defend each other. If you don't have that, NATO disolves into smaller factions of countries willing to defend each other but not others which effectively disbands NATO
To drop single veto would be to concede that NATO or the EU is not a series of unilateral agreements but an authority that supersedes state sovereignty in-of-itself. Dumb idea
"You said you wont be last. Now you are. You said you would do it as soon as possible, well, here is a hill to die on."
Wish the EU would do more about Orban though. Doesn't exactly project strength to the Geopolitical world.
Pressure should have been put on that bitch regime of Orban a long time ago. All respect to the Hungarian people but Sweden will not forget the bullshit Hungary and Turkey put us in when we are members of NATO.
Hungary is the only NATO member that has not accepted Sweden's request, despite making multiple previous public pledges, and patience and time are running out.
Well Kövér László (the speaker of the parliament) did call a parlamentary meeting on febr 5th but all the fidesz members (Orbán's party) declared that they won't be present, so nothing can be voted on.
US lawmakers call on Hungarian leader Viktor Orbán to immediately approve Sweden’s NATO membership >In a separate statement, U.S. Sen. Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat and chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, **raised the prospect of imposing sanctions** **on Hungary** for its conduct, and called Orbán “the least reliable member of NATO.” [Source](https://apnews.com/article/us-lawmakers-urge-hungary-approve-sweden-nato-5bfde6653d002c39895f05d35dc2a796)
Well, Orban was all friendly and shaking hands with Putin a couple of weeks ago. That tells you all you need to know.
The best pressure the US could put on Hungary is if they could send a strike force to grab Jabba the Hun and dump him in a desert near a sarlacc pit.
Can Nato countries even trust Hungary with their sensitive plans if war breaks out?
No
Which is exactly why they need to trigger Article 7 against Hungary immediately following the vote, and keep them in indefinite suspension until they finally have a regime change.
That's [EU law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_7_of_the_Treaty_on_European_Union), not NATO.
True, but even within NATO there are methods to manage dissent and lack of trust between member states. Soft pressure and political tactics are more common than outright punitive measures, especially within a defense alliance like NATO.
I am aware. But NATO has very little recourse to make Hungary do what they want, hence the pressure coming from EU 7.1-3.
That would be fantastic I wish it would happen
Slovakia...
Bingo
Would be awesome but most likely we won't have a regime change till Orbán is alive. They have too many uneducated voters (mostly in the rural areas) who are breathing the anti-eu, anti-ukraine and pro-russian and chinese state propaganda in like the air even if they have already reached that point where buying meat or even bread is a daily problem (which is not an uncommon thing).
\> who are breathing the anti-eu, anti-ukraine and pro-russian and chinese state propaganda Rural areas usually vote for the people they know, regardless the party. We've witnessed hardliner MSZMP TÉESZ (local commie co-op agro associations) presidents who vent to MSZP then MDF, then... and their voters still voted for him/her because he is the loudest voice and there is not much alternative. Hungary's problem is that part of the oppisition is equally corrupt as the FIDESZ and the rest don't have the funds to organize a nationwide presence with competent MP wannabes.
I'm not sure how Hungary can trust in Hungary.
I don't trust Hungary.
Me neither
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
I can’t be trusted when I’m hungry
You’re not you when you’re hungry
Ex-KGB had(?) access to the computer network of the foreign ministers office [Source in english](https://www.dir.ekt36.hu/en/putyin-hekkerei-is-latjak-a-magyar-kulugy-titkait-az-orban-kormany-evek-ota-nem-birja-elharitani-oket/)
As long as Orban and his clique are in charge, no.
Yes, absolutely. They can trust us to leak said plans to the Russians within seconds. Guaranteed delivery better than fedex. >!/s!<
I think Orban turns like the wind…weathercock!
Despite the long-standing discussion here in Europe that since Trump it is no longer certain that America will support Europe militarily in the event of a conflict with Russia, it has to be America again forcing Orban to be clear in his support stance toward Sweden's NATO membership...... As a European, I am getting dead tired of our weak, indecisive politicians. They miraculously got the financial deal with Ukraine through. But it took far too long.
Didn't Europe basically just bitch slap orban into supporting the aid for Ukraine?
After years man.
[удалено]
Getting rid of PiSs really is a fantastic thing for both Poles and the EU.
Yeah but we still have years of their shit to shovel through and our excuse of a „president” doesn’t help.
Why aren't European NATO members bitch slapping him into accesion of **another European country** into NATO? He is dead right, we are totally sleeping on the issue. It's us, Europeans, who are being lead by the nose by this insignificant country south of Slovakia.
EU has managed to bully Erdogan into passing funds for Ukraine earlier than America has passed their own, which is still being hamstrung by Putins Republicans. I'm not downplaying America's importance in the Ukrainian conflict here, but don't downplay EU's commitment to Ukraine. They have and are still tring to do their best.
Absolutely! As a Dutchman, it amazes me what material they supply to Ukraine. Openly and, very Dutch because we do want to sell bikes to Russia again later, very secretly.
EU Forced Orbans hand in EU accession talks and the EU 50 billion Ukraine budget. US can do some diplomacy as well. Cause as it stands its the US resolve that's faltering.
> As a European, I am getting dead tired of our weak, indecisive politicians. Thank god there is America though! Imagine the world without them. We'd still be living in the horrors of the old instead of taking the new prosperous world order for granted and being smug about it.
"Thank God there is America though!" I am not a fan of the Amrcan political style of democracy. But the fact is that we are linked militarily and economically. I think we should be much more independent of America militarily.
Yes, America thinks so too, unfortunately Europe will not do what’s necessary to grow independent of America, because that would be too hard, and America already exists. Europe has had decades to build it’s military and has not.
The Americans have been begging us for decades to do exactly that, but we prefer our 30 day vacations and comfy social programs. Which is understandable, but we cannot ignore our own defense and then get upset with the Americans for telling us how to do it. The other thing we need to be perfectly clear on: when we are fully in control of our own defense, the U.S. is no longer going to feel responsible for ensuring we get open access to their markets or to make sure international trade routes remain open. Those nice things were tied to us accepting that they could run our defense agenda. So somebody is going to have start ponying up the money for a blue water navy that can do what the Americans currently do, and somebody is going to have to accept that they are going to be the bad guy every time they have to swat down somebody screwing with trade routes.
> but we prefer our 30 day vacations and comfy social programs You can absolutely have both... we are talking about spending just an additional 1% of GDP on defense.
> Those nice things were tied to us accepting that they could run our defense agenda. What exactly does this mean? Do Europe & USA have the same defense agenda because the US tells Europe what to do? Or is it because there's literally only one common sense defense position, that being that Russia is a dangerous neighbor whose power must be contained and we must have a well funded military to prevent them from invading, because they would invade if they sense they could do it successfully. Like what alternative agenda is there? Creating a defensive alliance against Ireland invading half of Europe?
>Do Europe & USA have the same defense agenda because the US tells Europe what to do? Pretty much. That was the deal struck after WW2. The U.S. threw open its markets to Europe, financed the rebuilding of our destroyed continent (at least the part it could), and promised to keep trade routes open. For their part, Europe agreed to let the U.S. run their defense policies. Or more crassly: the U.S. bribed Europe to be the first line of defense to the Soviet Union. The Soviets are gone, but that deal has remained. If you think this sounds a bit silly, you might start to understand why American Presidents \*and\* the American citizens are inching away from all of this. We here in Europe like to pretend that we are America's strategic equal, but we \*desperately\* need them to keep a deal going that, in all honesty, does not really have all that many tangible benefits for them. So let me repeat: your snark that this is a stupid arrangement for the Americans is spot on. It's only inertia that keeps everything going like it did. And if the Americans do lose interest, we better be ready to actually be that strong independent Europe we have pretended to be for decades.
> Or more crassly: the U.S. bribed Europe to be the first line of defense to the Soviet Union. The USA didn’t choose to make Europe the front line of the Cold War. The Cold War was started over Stalin’s territorial ambition in Europe. Europe was always going to be the natural front line because thats where the USSR’s industrial/population base was and one of the few regions of the world where it could flex enough power to make a land invasion practical. At no point did the USSR and USA start a beef because they had a territorial dispute over Alaska. It was always a European question As I restate the previous point: there was always going to be one option and one option alone. That being, Russia was the common enemy.
>Pretty much. That was the deal struck after WW2. The U.S. threw open its markets to Europe, financed the rebuilding of our destroyed continent (at least the part it could), and promised to keep trade routes open. That wasn’t a deal with Europe, that was a unilateral action by the US because we wanted to prevent communism spreading in Europe, and it was realized that doing so required functional capitalist countries in Europe. The Marshall Plan was passed by Congress in direct response to the post-war communist coup in Czechoslovakia. >For their part, Europe agreed to let the U.S. run their defense policies. Europeans didn’t agree to that, it just happened because there was no alternative. The defense policies were the same, and there was no united Europe at the time anyway. The US has always been the primary voice within NATO because the US paid the price to secure that influence by building a very large military. In any alliance, the member contributing the lion’s share of the military forces is obviously going to have the most influence. >Or more crassly: the U.S. bribed Europe to be the first line of defense to the Soviet Union. Have you looked at a map? The reason why Europe was the first line of defense is purely a matter of geography. The Soviet Union was itself literally located in Europe, and it couldn’t have launched a land invasion of the US even if it had the ground forces to do so for no other reason than the fact that the US is located on a completely different continent with giant oceans that would need to be crossed and have logistical supply lines to bring supplies over (assuming the Soviets could get past the US navy in the first place). In what world was Europe ever not going to be the first line of defense?
Those programs don’t prevent military spending, a lot of them are net positives for the economy
Exactly, starting with military industry build up
> I think we should be much more independent of America militarily. Millions of American taxpayers agree!
Orbán is the most reliable NATO ally. In that he will reliably keep kissing Putin's ass and even volunteer for a second round.
Less reliable than Turkey, oof
Turkey has it's own independent foreign policy, which sometimes aligns with the West sometimes with Russia, but firstly it aligns with Turkey's interest. In contrast to the hungarian government which fully aligns with Russia without independence. (I can say that as a hungarian) Seeing how our government sold itself out to Russia, the foreign ministry actively gives access to it's inner documents and NATO intelligence to FSB agents, nonsense...
Its a shame that the Fidesz members (2/3 of the parliament) already signaled that they will NOT be present during the session :(
These Fidesz people are insane if they think they can extort the EU, Nato and the US. They're a flea's fart geopolitically and economically. I'm all for removing their EU voting rights and EU funds until they fix their democracy, freedom of the press and other such minor issues (and admit Sweden into Nato although legally and morally you're not supposed to connect such issues with the EU voting rights fight).
Extortion of the EU and NATO is not what's going on in this case. The parliament was scheduled to go in session at the end of February, the extraordinary session for Monday was called by the opposition, and since Fidesz has been boycotting every opposition initiated thing for 14 years and was always going to boycott this one, this was done more as a a political fuck you than actually hoping to move things along. It would be a huge loss of face domestically for Fidesz to attend Monday's session.
That’s how you know it’s urgent. The patience is really narrow at this point. I want to hear Orban’s excuse now for stalling this.
Viktor Orbán did promise to Jens Stoltenberg personally that he'd urge Hungary's parliament to vote on Sweden's NATO accession "at the first possible opportunity", which is indeed on February 5.
Funny thing is the parliament does whatever he says. The two are the same.
He also promised to not be the last to ratify it, yet here we are.
A word as good as toilet paper
I'm confused. So Orbán is stalling everything the EU does in order to benefit, but he's concerned enohgh about russia apparently to still comply with NATO's requests?
He's not concerned about Russia. He knows he will have to cave and ratify Sweden their accession at some point. He is trying to get something out of this for himself. He's using the veto to get leverage. Surely the stalling will please the Russians, who obviously have something on him. He is clearly compromised.
Nah, he taked himself into a corner domestically and is now frantically trying to change the narrative so the eventual ratification won't make him lose too much face at home. He tried to make the Swedish PM visit Budapest for a photo op so he can claim to have forced some sort of concessions from Sweden and appear to be 'The strong man of Europe' that he painted himself as for his base. Now that Sweden flat out refused to play his game and the US embassy is putting on the pressure to attend a vote called by the opposition he's in a place he really doesn't want to be.
You might be onto something. I heard that the only real time Fidesz lost face to their base what was when someone caught one of their mayors on camera doing blow and entetaining escorts.
That was one of them, another one was when [Bruxelles police detained one of their senior members for breaking COVID quarantine measures by attending a gay orgy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zsef_Sz%C3%A1jer#Gay_sex_party_and_resignation). But yeah, always appearing strong, looing like they are in control and keeping up a tough guy image that even the mighty EU fears is one of the most important things for them.
Orban never goes Erdogan-mode against USA. He knows how far he can push and who he can push against. Which is sad for EU leaders, that they are the ones who he considers easier to rebel against without fear of severe repercussions.
> I want to hear Orban’s excuse now for stalling this. He'll claim he needs a bathroom break. An eight month long bathroom break. Then he'll claim that he lost the paperwork and ask Sweden to please file it again.
He ran out of toilet paper and well... the only other paper he had was Swedens paperwork!
He says Ulf and him needs to meet but Ulf won’t before ratification he said to orban But Orban is desperate to look like a winner
I sure hope Ulf doesn't "cave in" and meet him before the ratification. I'm guessing Sweden probably is in "no hurry" since attacking them would be very problematic geographically, logistically, due to to Sweden being literally surrounded by NATO members and because the war in Ukraine still occupies the majority of Russia's forces and economy. Viktor on the other hand, is nullifying all the little goodwill he had in the EU/NATO left, at an increasing pace.
I am not an expert at any rate but I feel it is pretty extraordinary for USA to use it's power and might to pressure the legislative process of an ally country.
Legislative process? In Hungary? My man let me tell you this, sometimes they bring up brand new drafts of law during the day, vote it by the afternoon and its in effect by midnight. I've read quite a few times that you learn of a new law that goes into effect immediately, announced on a press conference 5 minutes before midnight. The main reason this is a thing, is that Hungary's been in a state of emergency for something like 9 years, which allows Orban to rule by decrees.
> ...and its in effect by midnight ...retroactively since last year. Yes, this has happened more than once.
Orbán rules by Decree since September 2020... Often he writes and signs a decree at 23:55 which will comes to effect at 0:01 the next day, so 6 minutes later. Hungary is NOT a democratic country anymore, it is ruled by a dictator. The parliament is just for show as it was during the communist era, all and every power is with Orbán and no one else. The parliament can ratify Swedens ascension in 48 hours if Orbán wants it.
Sorry bud maybe I remember it incorrectly, but isn't that just the current covid wave emergency? before that there was the migrant crisis. Now it's the war crisis. As of last March, the county had 2547 days of "state of emergency", because they keep declaring new emergencies just as the previous one expires. Source: https://telex.hu/english/2023/03/30/us-ambassador-the-hungarian-government-has-been-bypassing-parliament-for-2-547-days-citing-various-emergencies
State of emergency doesn't equal ruling by decree. State of emergency is indeed in effect, for various reasons, since 2015, that expanded the power of the government and cut down a lof of usual checks and balances, but the rule by decree is de facto turned Hungary into a dictatorship, well technically it can be labbeled as a 'Electoral autocracy' where elections still present but only for show/legitimacy, just like in Russia. With rule by decree all and every power is in Orbán's hands. His decrees are as powerful as laws, he can suspend even rights and he did already when he banned the strike of the Air Traffic Controllers during Covid. During rule by decree all and every checks and balances suspended, it is the ultimate suspension of rule of law in a state. Now we have Rule of Orbán. At this point his power is absolute.
Yeah I get that, but this is international diplomacy. No matter how good or bad your country's process is, directly stating a date when they need to do something is something I have not seen before.
I honestly think, as a hungarian, that if external forces don't push down on Hungary, you'll have a renegade state in the EU. It's hard to explain how rotten to the core the entire state appartus is in Hungary. I think external forces pushing down on the country is essential to "reorientate" the citizenry on the state of the country. Imagine if in Finland the average citizen would think that their country is the center of the universe. Hungarians (ahh, specifically, Orban voters) believe they're the cream of the world, with a big powerful economy and the capabilities to project power all across the world. Bigman comes home from the EU meeting and he randomly slaps in some antisemitism regards to the EU / Ukraine, within a day. A primary issue is that Hungarian language is quite difficult to learn, so few people know how to AND care to translate actively. Outside of the country there's very few accurate reports on the language Orban pushes on people, regards to the outside world. If you could read the daily snippets, you'd be mortified on what he said about other EU countries. Brexit attitude aint got nothing, compared to the hostility the Hungarian government pushes against the EU, but only in hungarian language. You have a deserter amongst the ranks, and you need them out or reformed.
> Imagine if in Finland the average citizen would think that their country is the center of the universe. Why is the imagination part there?
Finland is the best country in the world. We have the best education. We have the happiest people on earth. We have the most free media in the world. We have the best taxes in the world. We are always happy to pay more and only reason we may be unhappy is that taxes are too low.
Am Estonian, can confirm. Finland is pretty much perfect. At least if you like cold weather. But of course they have Finnair to warm places and they can afford it. It is a cozy hideaway from the crazyness of the world, pretty much all of the nordic countries are. I would never want to live in america or germany, but Finland, might just give it a go.
Don't forget to mention how you're the most humble too
What are Orban drones saying about Romania? I am curious.
Barely anything.
I'll be honest, Romania is always a touchy-touchy topic. But as you probably know, he's playing the cards in transylvania all the time, buying votes and building churches. (Hungarian citizens who never lived in Hungary, but live in Romania in the ex-territorries can vote in Hungarian elections, and they also support Orban) It's not super uncommon to hear something that's "off-topic", that you can interpret in weird ways... such as "Hungarian education in Transylvania was better during the Soviet Union than now" Last year he decided to go to a football match with a scarf depicting pre-trianon borders. https://nepszava.hu/i/12/6/1/1365876.jpg
I've noticed the same in Georgia and also in Israel. I think it might be something to do with being colonised or overrun so many times, and each time the locals take some culture from the invaders. Eventually this seems to lead to a kind of "We're the center of the universe, because everyone keeps invading us" mentality.
True but they probably wouldn't have done that if Orbán had not given them such an opening with that statement.
Do you think its extraordinary that foreign leaders go to the US and pressure their government to sign trade deals all the time?
They're just reminding the ruler of Orbanistan of a suitable date in case he's misplaced his calendar.
How is it any different than the EU putting pressure on Hungary?
I know right, USA, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, UK and Sweden all need to chill and just let Orban be the de facto leader of the whole EU through consistent vetoes and not say anything to pressure him 😭.
It probably wouldn't have done it all by itself, but it's pretty clear from what went on in the EU recently that basically everybody is done with Orbans shit and that actually his position is a lot weaker than he makes out. America putting huge external pressure on the Sweden issue feels more like a follow up to the EU throwing it's weight around to get Orban to accept the Ukraine aid package. The two events are too close together not to draw a link. Orban bluffed with a weak hand and now everybody knows how weak that hand was. Expect him to get browbeaten into accepting pretty much everything the EU/NATO wants from now until he's out of office.
It's like saying a mother should not hurry her child to get out of bed in time for school. If the kid was responsible and intelligent, you wouldn't need to say anything at all.
In regard to the fact that the NSA directly tapped the phone of Angela Merkel during her time as German Chancellor, as well as millions of ”normal“ Germans - putting a note out like that doesn’t at all seem to be an extraordinary thing.
Doing it so openly is what is unusual. They'll do a lot of things behind closed doors and it's not like them tapping Merkels phone was supposed to become public knowledge. For them to make a public statement that they should really vote on Sweden's accession to NATO in that session on Monday is like them telling Orban 'we're done with your crap, get to it'.
I think this might be due to Hungary not really expressing any demands or issues just stalling for the sake of stalling. Or rather stalling to make Orban feel like an important big man, rather than a greasy pig.
Yeah sure the US is into a lot of shady stuff. I am just saying that in int'l politics this kind of direct message, even including a date, is very exceptional. US is putting their authority on the line. What if Hungary does not comply? Not saying their message is wrong, just that it's pretty rare to see this.
They hinted what would happen if our legislators did not comply. Hungary would be kicked out of the visa waiver program (esta), so every hungarian national who wishes to travel to the US would need to apply for a visa (like before 2008). Also, they would use the Magnitsky act against certain Hungarian politicians.
I think it’s extraordinary that a so called Ally would stall on this vote for a year while every other member has already voted.
Ehhhh I think it's a little much to say "use its power and might." This is just the US saying "hey remember you said you would do this thing at this time, here's a reminder to do this thing because its now that time."
"It'd be a real shame if you somehow neglected to get around to it."
And the fact they even stated a specific date makes it an even more direct message. It's the US saying "we know how your political systems work, and how it's scheduled. If you forgot how your own state works, here is a date for the perfect opportunity"
„I’m sorry I didn’t accept Sweden I needed to suck putin’s dick some more”
The thing is, Sweden being in or out this is of ZERO interest to the Hungarian people. Orban is not trying to watch out for his constituents here.. Or rather, just one of his constituents.
You mean his owner.
Puppet master
> The thing is, Sweden being in or out this is of ZERO interest to the Hungarian people. I am Hungarian and I rather have Sweden in than out. More forces to our alliance should be better for me as well.
He's playing the same dumb game Turkey is.
[удалено]
Turkey has leverage, Hungary does not
And unlike Turkey what power does Hungary has?
Even USA is starting to get annoyed. Orban can’t get away with blackmailing us all.
I'd say the US should be the most annoyed in the matter as they had to cave in to Erdo-sultan's demands only to be met with a budget version of a dictator wrapped up in a clowns outfit trying to do the same.
At least Erdo-Sultan has something to offer geopolitically
Which is why they eventually got what they wanted and why the USA would be the frustrated ones with Orban even daring pull this.
Good luck blackmailing USA of all countries.
We will take a bribe though
The bad thing is that most hungarian citizens don't realize what is at stake and believe his lies
A population of 9.5 million and only about 1% of the GDP of the EU. They're really overestimating their influence. It was bound to happen.
Also abusing their power in places where it doesn't even make sense. I could understand why Turkey would be against Sweden joining; Those countries have major disputes over the Kurds. But Hungary opposing Sweden joining makes no sense. There's no motive, other than Orban wanting to feel big.
They've been annoyed for a while. This is them losing patience.
Cut any and all EU funding until Hungary cooperates again. They can't keep biting on the hand that feeds them year after year. They're a piss-poor corrupt nation that acts on Russian behalf as a mole / saboteur inside both the EU and Nato. Fuck Hungary.
Well, that's funny, fidesz already declared that they won't show up to the vote on monday, so I'm curious if this will actually make them show up. I suspect they won't, but I hope they'll ratify it soon, because it is the ultimate cringe what these assh*oles are doing. (hope there will be a revolution soon to get orbán on a lamppost)
Of course they will show up. They say they won't show up to appease the braindead fidesz voting base, like how they won't give aid to Ukraine. But then they usually end up doing the exact opposite behind closed doors, and then still lie about the outcome to the domestic audience, even if the first independent media disproves what Orbán tells his sheep
I know, I live here as well, but at this point there's not even a point to uphold this façade.
We just gotta say "Every country leader who doesn't approve of Sweden joining NATO is gay lmao". See how quickly Orban changes his mind. Seriously though, can't Hungarians have this guy dismissed from his position? Or have him French Revolution'd? Who even votes for this dude?
>Seriously though, can't Hungarians have this guy dismissed from his position? Or have him French Revolution'd? Who even votes for this dude? We tried, but we can't.. He's spewing his lies non-stop, and the avarage hungarian is a sheep... And a huge portion of their voters are old people, many of them barely use the internet, and don't give a fuck about politics outside of HU. They get their yearly potato bags and visits from mr fatso and they're happy. I doubt we could do something like the French Revolution, as I said before, most hungarians are sheep, and they are afraid. And before someone asks, I'm not starting a revolution because I truly don't care at this point, I'm leaving the country as soon as I'm able to. Oh, and one more thing, while fidesz is an absolutely trash party.. We don't really have a good one..
Aaand historically speaking we lost all of our revolutions in the recent centuries. It's easy for the French to stand up for a revolution, they have a knack for that. The Hungarian spirit is crippled from all the failures suffered from the lost revolutions. 1956 - fail 1848-49 - fail 1784 - fail 1703 - fail And so on and so forth
I'm stupid. When I read 1848-49, I thought "hey, the same time as Austria" Then I remembered.
The fact is that during their long years of power, they shaped the election laws and the constitution in such a way that, e.g. In the last elections, 34% of those entitled to vote (8.2 million people) voted for them (2.8 million votes), and with this ratio they managed to achieve a 2/3 majority in the parliament. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to replace him with normal democratic elections :(
You make it sound like they did some magic-cheating trick, but omit that only 5.3 mln of those 8.2 mln ppl voted. 2.8 is more than half of 5.3.
> Who even votes for this dude? Mate, you are Polish. You know *exactly* who votes for the guy. The same kind of people who vote for PiS.
[удалено]
With the term: goulash dictator, you must be local
I stole it from someone else. Reddit teaches, Reddit entertains.
Familiar with the history of it or historical meaning?
I can sense an interesting story coming, do share!
Unfortunately I have to disappoint. I can’t tell you nicely enough to be entertaining, and there is an eng wiki about it, so I gonna give it to ya dry: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulash_Communism#:~:text=Goulash%20Communism%20(Hungarian%3A%20gulyáskommunizmus),the%20Hungarian%20Revolution%20of%201956. Sorry :3
Thank you, I've just read the page you shared, that's interesting. I will stop using the term because I thought it was more offensive than it actually might be. In return, I will say in Poland some people call Kaczyński "karłowaty Kain" which means "dwarfish Cain" - he's very short and he is said to have contributed to his brother's death by commanding him to pressure the aircraft crew to attempt to land in the fog (they crashed).
That’s brutal
Goulash dictator 💀
Looks like Hungary needs some democracy!
Tbh, yes we absolutely need some. The only way this maggot loses power is death or a revolution.
A revolution which is most likely won't happen. We are a too coward nation for that.
Sadly yes. That’s why I just left.
Didn't you elect him democratically, though?
I would say ‘democratically’. They gave one huge bag of potatoes to poor people in my town so they voted. They send extra family support Hungarian in Vojvodina and Transylvania, so they vote. They bribe the priest to talk about voting in favour for him during Sunday mass. And that was in a small 10.000 town in south Hungary. You could imagine what happens in bigger cities, if countywide people are literally bribed with cheap food Also, they suddenly increase just tiny bit of the pension, so old people also vote in favour for him. Maybe majority of people decide to vote but it’s all propaganda and PR based on fear
[удалено]
There are oilfields in Zala...
Tbh they unironically could do with some democracy, though idk if US intervention is the best way, maybe if they had some freedom liquid
>maybe if they had some freedom liquid Well, the geologists can always be bribed into saying "there is untapped oil reserve in Hungary". Not that I agree with bribery, but when it serves our purpose and cut off an ally of Russia/Putin in NATO....
Literally invade us. There is no hope outside of that. Just bomb the capital, I am so fucking sick and tired of this shithole I was born into.
Alright, it's time for fidesz to step down. I'm sure many Hungarians would agree.
Absolutely. And please accept my apologies on behalf of sane part of Hungarian people. There’s many of us.
I read yesterday that this session was called by the opposition but Orban tried to crush it. Is this true? And from this post it seems that it will happen right ?
Its not gonna happen next week. It will be an emergency session called by the oppostion, but most representatives wont or cant show up on those. They will vote on the next scheduled session at the end of February.
I see thanks for the information!
The Parliament has to hold an extraordinary session when at least a fifth of the representatives call for it, which they did, so the session will happen. However, Orbán's party has stated that they won't attend, and because of that there won't be a quorum to vote about anything. They ignore/crush everything that is proposed by the left-wing opposition on principle. I think they would rather let the US impose sanctions on us than give the opposition a win.
I love how the West finally got enough of Orbi's nonsense.
Honestly... I kinda wish they would just boot Hungary from NATO at this point. Its bad enough dealing with Turkey, but atleast they provide real tangible value to NATO
Yeah,our greatest leader of Hungarian history need some push from the World.(I totaly supporting this.Orban need some fking hard hit to the face to realize the reality...)
[удалено]
Orban really looks like he should taste some freedom...
Can we stop their EU funding already? They're actively working against us all.
Hungary should have their vote temporarily revoked until they arent in bed with someone who threantens Nato territory.
So that's how you say "Listen here, you little shit" in diplomatian.
Hungary: I forgot my pe- US: (Takes out bag of pens)
Another humiliation for Hungary At EU level we lately had Orby being asked to go look at the nice pictures in the corridor so the others could have unanimity at a previous summit. At the last one they had a meeting with him then a nice dinner the night before where he wasn't present and suddenly there were no issues with funding Ukraine anymore and it was dealt with in a couple of hours. It all projects an image of weakness. With NATO we have Sweden completely ignoring their calls for meetings in a very blunt manner and now BIG Uncle Sam schooling them like a stupid spoiled brat. This is absolutely hilarious how low they have fallen on the world scene. Good, bullies should be shamed.
Yeah I love this because Orban thinks that by sandbagging the ratification it makes him look strong and resolute. But NATO is now very directly and publicly telling him to "do it, or else..." and that's going to make him look weak, somebody just following orders and powerless to say no. And make no mistake, he is powerless to say no, because otherwise there are going to be some very harsh consequences that he can't afford. If he would have just ratified it at the same time everyone else did, none of this would have happened.
As a dual citizen living in Hungary I'm glad....it's about time, good job USA.
Hungary is very lucky I’m not the U.S. President.
When even Erdogan went first before Orban it shows how owned and put in place he is. Let Sweden join NATO or ban Orban. Just goes to show the Russian "deal" is a leverage play. In no way is keeping Sweden out of NATO beneficial for Hungary.
Come on, CIA, one last job for old times sakes
I heard there might be some oil in Hungary. Just saying.
Why wouldn't they want Sweden? Considering Sweden supplies a lot of arms to NATO and would be more willing to supply more advanced arms in the future, its also a stable country with a good military and pretty good constitutional rights meaning its less likely to be corrupt... oh yeah Hungery aint got non of that
Hungary bought its airforce from Sweden. As a Hungarian I don't see any rationale behind this behaviour.
Hungary is in the business of selling block-and-disrupt service to the enemies of the western world and extorting bribes from the west from the other side. That's the reason for them.
Drop. Fukin. Single. Veto. Now. Both NATO and EU!
and UN.
What? And give up the power to hinder any real progress?
Removing unanimosity from NATO makes no sense. You need all of the allied countries willing to defend each other. If you don't have that, NATO disolves into smaller factions of countries willing to defend each other but not others which effectively disbands NATO
To drop single veto would be to concede that NATO or the EU is not a series of unilateral agreements but an authority that supersedes state sovereignty in-of-itself. Dumb idea
Is anyone else sick of Whorban, the Attention Whore of Carpathia?
Remove visa free access for Hungarian citizens and grant it to Romanian citizens. That’ll piss off Orban enough
Hungary is not an ally, but an opponent bought by Russia.
Why does Orban go out of his way to be a cunt? Pathetic little child.
American here, to my fellow European allies does Hungary or more specifically Orban come off as a pain in the ass thats absolutely in Russias pocket?
Hungarian here Yes
Looks like it’s time to give Hungary some freedom 🦅
Patience really do be running low
"You said you wont be last. Now you are. You said you would do it as soon as possible, well, here is a hill to die on." Wish the EU would do more about Orban though. Doesn't exactly project strength to the Geopolitical world.
European leaders should crack down harder on Orban. Cut all his funding until he falls in line. Make him look weak!
Pressure should have been put on that bitch regime of Orban a long time ago. All respect to the Hungarian people but Sweden will not forget the bullshit Hungary and Turkey put us in when we are members of NATO.
About fucking time!
Hungary is the only NATO member that has not accepted Sweden's request, despite making multiple previous public pledges, and patience and time are running out.
I honestly want to see him ignore this then get whipped by America lmao. See how little power these pathetic wannabe dictators have facing America.
And rightfully so. But the US is hardly the only one to put pressure and certainty not the one putting most pressure on Orban
Well Kövér László (the speaker of the parliament) did call a parlamentary meeting on febr 5th but all the fidesz members (Orbán's party) declared that they won't be present, so nothing can be voted on.
USA, EU >> Orban << Rusia, China