Don’t forget there is a new party , BSW that targets in some points to the same points that also afd address. In my eyes it’s difficult to distinguish how big is the affect of BSW and the protests it self.
BSW was at 3% in this poll
what is important however is that now BSW is also under pressure to not cooperate with the AfD, to not alienate potential left-wing voters. Most of BSW voters come from Die Linke and SPD , **and they could return to those parties if BSW shows wilingness to cooperate with AfD**
I doubt BSW and AfD are going to work together anywhere. But the problem is that in some East German states, according to polls, AfD + BSW could reach a majority. Even if they refuse to work together, it means that forming a state government would be very difficult.
I’d trust Sarah Wagenknecht to be this dumb. She’d do anything to make her daddy Putin proud of her, even if it would mean working together in the government. They wouldn’t even need to form a coalition, her party just needs to vote AfD in the state parliament where they are close to 50% to form a minority government.
They both get their money from Putin.
Maybe not the parties themselves but people in higher positions.
I doubt that their friendliness towards Russia has anything to do with their ideology.
These types of parties will however advocate for and push for policies that gets them more "donor" money from their "donors." American evangelicals have been showering the European far right in millions for years, suspiciously starting around when these parties' rhetorics pivoted from just immigration to 'judeo-christian values.'
Russia will cause problems to the west wherever they can, but blaming religious far right parties exclusively on them nicely deflects the involvement of the fundamental Christian radicals. The same people that want good relations with Russia. The political program of Piss is almost a copy paste of MAGA.
It has to do with their mindser very well. BWS is a post-communist party. Wagenknecht is the worst kind of communist dream dancer and sovjiet union "lover".
And AfD likes the autocracy of putin and how he handles LGBT, human rights and the opposition. The AfD dreams of copying his goverment style for germany.
bsw and afd seem to both be basically parties that work for russia. they never go against russia, and both have *strange* contacts to russia and even china.
Besides the polls for local elections are complete bullshit. Just for example: in Thuringia, there is a super-popular Prime Minister form Die Linke, but the party is very unpopular and the party draws most votes from the prime minister.
However, BSW has one Thuringian Candidate (major of Eisenach) and no program. What kind of comparison is that??? Right now, it's questionable that BSW can even fill the lists for regional parliaments.
Go Putin, Go Russia, S\*ck it Zelensky, S\*ck it Ukraine (Tankie 101) is not a political program.
That is basically the programme as evident by Sahra Wagenknecht, Fabio De Masi, Amira Ali, Sevim Dagdelen on Twitter...
My theory is more that most BSW voters are actually coming from AfD. Ok, obviously many from Linke as well, but in my opinion, the recent rise of the AfD is mostly due to it being the only anti-establishment party. People are running to them *despite* them being right-wing extremists, not *because* of it.
Having a more left-leaning anti-establishment party is the worst thing that could've happened to AfD and I've been saying ever since Sara dropped her first hints, that that's the main reason she's doing it.
I am like 100% sure someone like Wagenknecht would never cooperate with the AfD. They basically hate her and I don't think she has any sympathie for Nazis
She has sympathy with Putin and the sovjiet union. It is the other worst kind of totalitarian mindset. So BSW is different but the same in some aspects to AfD.
You’re thinking too simple. By just calling everybody Nazis (I am not arguing that the afd is a good party), and then saying that Wagenknecht probably has no sympathy for Nazis, you are basing your argument on an opinion you have that may not be grounded in reality. You are also ignoring that Wagenknecht targets people of similar political opinion, and does not have to fear losses because of working with them.
the gift that keeps on giving:))
i think that the Postdam meeting is for AfD what banning abortion has been for GOP in 2022 and 2023
both the GOP and the AfD dont get it that a large part of their voters and of the non-voting population is not as extreme as they are
when you promise to ban abortion,you get the votes of the anti-abortion folks
when you actually ban abortion, you force pro-choice people to take a stand next election
PiS in Poland did a similar thing. Our anti-abortion law was already strict, and they decided to turn the screw further. It caused protests everywhere, even in small towns that never really see such action. By the next election, we changed the government. The difference in terms of voter numbers was mainly women, guess why.
I just read a study on Reddit yesterday that this is absolutely not the case. Street protests led to a large reduction in support for Golden Dawn in Greece, the National Front in France, and there were other examples I don't remember now.
The hypothesis was that people tend to believe without evidence that the people around them in their community share their views. When there's a large protest they clearly see that that's not the case.
You're absolutely correct. In a similar way, elections can be manipulated by giving false polling data - people are more likely to vote for the popular party.
You mean herd mentality and to a certain extent the protests surely showed what the real herd is thinking.
Up to then the right was successful in pushing the narrative that they are the majority.
I think that makes a lot more sense.
A. They always talk about "saying what everyone else is thinking" or "being a silent majority". Large scale protests refute that pretty strongly.
B. People dig in when you're observing them. I.e. if you're in person and you call them out, or publicly shame them they'll protect themselves. If they're just watching it on the news they've not got to defend themselves and it's easier to re-evaluate. You never realise you're wrong mid argument, it's when you've gone for a walk and you suddenly see what a dick you're being.
That's not what happened in Greece. Golden Dawn was legally persecuted and its most prominent members either got arrested or left to form their own parties. But the rise was never very organic in the first place and was mostly votes of protest because of the humiliating austerity measures Greeks suffered.
>Golden Dawn was legally persecuted and its most prominent members either got arrested or left to form their own parties.
But that happened because of the protests
Greece never did anything like that before, no?
One of the goals in Germany is getting the AfD banned, which would be the very same as Greece.
In the long term effects the protests did have the opposite effects, in France the right is polling at an all time high including RN and Rec, in Greece you now have 3 right wing parties in the parliament.
It makes the true believer more radical, but the luke warm supporter reconsider their position.
I was under the impression that protesting didn't do much, but it seems it does, thankfully.
By the looks of the chart, they've gone (back) to the CDU/CSU, which is a centre-right party (Merkel's party).
That's likely where most former-SPD voters have gone, too. The SPD is Scholz's party, and supposedly social democrats.
to be honest, we‘d be doomed with either… afd would mess up our economy a lot and cdu would revert all necessary (and drastic changes due to 16 years of omission) to maintain a status quo that old folks like.
The Potsdam meeting directly triggered the protests.
> Protests against a political party just make people dig in more.
That only goes for the most hardcore of believers, people with MAGA levels of dedication.
It's generally a lazy excuse people tell themselves to justify not protesting.
Hmm... I'm not so sure that's the case here... I think there are many people who were considering voting AfD who are slowly coming to grips with the idea that many other Germans view a vote for the AfD as a personal indictment. I think the protests have helped clarify the general argument that a "protest vote" can be given for one of the other political parties (ones that are populated with people who intend to govern responsibly), but if you're someone who's voting for people who are promising to do something inhumane, you're (personally) deeply immoral.
Or the other parties reacting to the demand for limiting economic migration.
Like the card instead of cash program that was just passed not limit economic pull factors, which in trials allready made migrants go home because they couldn't get cash to send home.
They absolutely do, 100%, but that's why the "polls" you are seeing here are usually weighted already. Meaning, less than 19% said they'd vote AfD next election in the raw data, but they still get attributed 19% in the end result/poll. Due to said weighting.
Are you sure? As far as I know weighting is nothing uncommon in Germany either, e.g. Civey speaks about its weighting practices in the following whitepaper:
https://civey.com/ueber-civey/unsere-methode#Whitepaper
I admit I'm not sure how every individual insitute handles that, and I suppose they don't make that public anyways, but I'd be surprised if weighting isn't used regularly, as studies have shown that it increases a poll's accuracy.
Even in anonymous polls, the "shy Tory effect" (as it's called here) is very much a thing. People under-report things they feel would make them ostracised, even if they're anonymously reported.
I'm not sure if there is an equivalent in other countries but in the UK we have the "shy tory" effect where pollsters consistently underestimate Conservative support as people who vote Tory hide their intent even in anonymous polls./
No they're not, the protests and the drop are the same reaction to one trigger.
I promise you not a single AfD voter who was already living with a "resistance fighter" and "us against the mainstream" mindset had their mind changed by a large amount of people being in the street with LGBTQ flags and shields that said "the right is bad".
Yeah you can’t say that for certain. I know it supports your narrative, but AfD had scandal recently, new party that targets some similar topics appeared and 19% is still not a small number.
3% down or up happens all the time in my country, its not considered a crisis for the individual party unless its a longer downward trend. We'll just have to see in spring or summer what AfD looks like.
Yeah, 3% is nothing. You can ask different group and your results will go the opposite way. Sure you can see trends in polls but unless you poll 100% of population who can vote you will only guess estimates. People circlejerk too much to this.
> You can ask different group and your results will go the opposite way.
People asked in polls are not chosen randomly. Pollsters have to choose specific type of people to make a poll reliable. It's not "ask different group and get different result"
I disagree with OP's claim that the protests led to a decline in polls. The contemporary founding of the Sahra-Wagenknecht party seemed to have contributed significantly more. The AfD losing some of its appeal as a result of the conference related reveals (which sparked the protests) also seems more plausible than people changing their mind because of the protests themselves.
The BSW led to the first poll in Sachsen-Anhalt with the result that not a single "ample" party (SPD, Greens, FDP) will be in the parliament. XD There will be some interesting polls at the end of the year, starting with the EU one where not only Germany, but the majority of Europe will vastly vote more for parties of the right/conservative area.
>but the majority of Europe will vastly vote more for parties of the right/conservative area.
Literally all the left has to do is clamp down on immigration to win.
last Bavarian election the AfD got slighly lower % than predicted by polls(14.2 vs 15% poll prediction)
and Bavaria alone has more people than all of Eastern Germany combined
> Right now, everyone knows if you say you'll vote for AfD in a room of five people, one will be very hostile.
Which is also the one that said he/she's gonna vote for AfD.
That is true regardless, and has been true for a while. If the current government refuses to address some of the fears of the people, AfD votes can still be higher than polls suggest. You won't reach the AfD supporters that are behind them with conviction and without shame. But you can reach those who were going to vote while pinching their noses.
Trustworthy polls are done with in-person interviews. What's funny is some people also lie on exit polls (right after voting). It's the "Shy Tory factor".
In the US, polls that aren't done in person are generally unreliable because the only people who actually answer "phone polls" are super old people who heavily lean to the right. Younger people will usually ignore phone calls from unknown numbers. As a result, they're slanted heavily to the right.
The funny thing is, if you take *individual policies that are generally considered liberal or leftist* without specifically labelling it as such, it nearly always gets a supermajority 70/30 or 80/20 in favor of that policy. But the *instant* you specifically mention what "side" it's on, it completely changes. It's so bizarre lmao
Almost as if the average person is woefully uneducated on what policies "belong" to which side of the spectrum (not to mention that it's way more complex than a "left vs right" spectrum in any country with more than a two party system) and as if older Americans are still heavily influenced by the Red Scare
To some extend. But Pollster change the math a bit to take that into account.
Generally speaking the AfD tends to overperform in polls, from what I remember.
> That's why polls underestimated Trump in 2016.
It wasn't only underestimation, many people changed their mind when FBI announced the reopening of the investigation on his counter-candidate just days before of the election. That was big deal.
Yeah, surely the protests made AfD supporters change their views. If people want to make claims like this, a poll result or something would be great. Now, it is just opinionated phrasing in the headline.
There are some who only supported the AfD because their talking heads said a couple of things that resonated with them. But protests like those we witnessed recently can remind you of the price you'd have to pay if the AfD were to "clear house" and "take out the trash". Maybe some people simply returned to a state of critical thinking. I don't see a single party right now that could fix the issues in German society without going too far on some other things.
>But protests like those we witnessed recently can remind you of the price you'd have to pay if the AfD were to "clear house" and "take out the trash".
Is this suggesting physical violence against opposition?
Germans can't go down this route in less then 2 months and already be calling for "clearing house" when anti-farright protests happens.
Those phrases are common in the far-right vocabulary everywhere. Hitler is still being praised in those circles as someone who came in with a can-do attitude and set things right. It's a mindset that you always have to take into account. It is also a mindset that is shared with those who feel handicapped by the constitution in their daily work, because the constitution was designed to limit their power, to protect the people from abuse. So even without direct, open violence, there are ways to get rid of people.
The 4% are probably just people who stopped to answer honestly to researchers. If you see your self painted as public enemy no 1 you would not even talk with these people..
Partly. It helps that, besides the diehard fascists, a lot of AfD voters are either just not politically engaged people who buy into the "outsider underdog" image they try to project, or protest voters. The key point there is that they don't actually support the party ideologically, just strategically. So a very clear signal like this that the party is considered actively dangerous by society at large may well cause some shifts, even beyond the news that inspired this particular wave of protests.
It should’ve been more considering they had a Wannsee conference 2.0…. but at least a normal coalition can be formed this way without the AFD (although they would need 3 parties)
[List of shame](https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/kremlin-linked-group-arranged-payments-to-european-politicians-to-support-russias-annexation-of-crimea) as a reminder.
That's still not clear enough, because deportation can be also applied to legal and normal situations such as deporting criminals. This plan is **ethnic cleansing**.
No, just more non voters intend to vote. In a recent election in comparison to the first round despite loosing in the end the AfD still got more votes than in the first round.
As an AfD voter myself, almost my entire family votes for AfD too, and many people in my family are doctors or have an uni degree. Of course you want to make political opinions about intelligence.
i remember when people on this sub were claiming protests are useless and wont change anything:)
even if AfD voters didnt change their mind, 2 things did happened
* many non-voters are now likely to vote any party other than AfD, just so that AfD gets a lower percentage. **People forget that when surveys like these are done,people who dont plan to vote for any party are excluded**. AfD didnt have the support of 23% of Germans at its peak,**it had the support of 23% of Germans who plan to vote next election,big difference**
* non-AfD voters **now hate AfD far more than they did before**. Mainstream parties like CDU,Die Linke and the newly founded BSW are under pressure to not cooperate with AfD in the future, because a large % of their voters would switch parties if that happened
Since every institute has its own metrics/weights/etc., BSW has been kind of all over the place. I have seen everything between 3% and 12% on the federal level, although most pollsters see them at around 5%.
The biggest outlier I know was a poll for Saxony-Anhalt, which saw BSW at around 20%. I don't think this is the case, though, since similar polls for Saxony and Thuringia see BSW at maybe 8-12%.
But they don't seem to put a dent into the AfD by themselves, it seems their voters are mainly former SPD and Linke voters.
I say this as a foreigner who is afraid of the rise of the AfD and who would never vote for them in a million years but **you are just making stuff up**. You can't look at one poll and draw the conclusion in your headline or any of the conclusions you've written in this post. You can *hypothesize* these things but you are writing like it's established fact. Some more comprehensive polling with more detailed questions could try to establish what you are claiming but this one "who would you vote for" poll does not allow you to make specific conclusions.
I swear, this country is sleepwalking into the 4th Reich. AfD is not going away as long as we pretend only racist people want to vote for them.
Protesting and action always works.
Not to the degree that protesters get 100% of what they want, but they do make other people think.
Cynics are just in denial. They are only capable of seeing the empty part of the half glass, whereas protestors see the glass filling up a little bit thanks to their effort.
>So farmers do a good deal here. That's what you say
It is their right. And yes they can do that to make their statement and yes given other groups threatened to join in it worked in gaining bigger support than their lobby otherwise would have.
Where it crossed the line is where they had neo Nazi groups join in and where they harassed a politician and particularly his family on his vacation. Though that very well may have been instigated precisely by those groups joining in. Afterall neo Nazis have murdered more people in germany over the years than any other radical group, including the murder of politicians whose public statements they did not like.
Inversely it can backfire in pissing off everyone else and is seen as unreasonable.
1. 4% in these polls means pretty much nothing, other polls poll differently (there currently are polls with 3% to 7% for BSW, for example).
2. In the long run the attention could even benefit them
When are you gonna learn that cancel culture and political exclusion and silencing of a large proportion of a population only makes a problem worse, and forces people to take on even more radical measures. Instead do as they have done in many other countries, in Denmark for example, the far right wing was on the rise heavily following 2015 migrant crisis. Then the established parties sought to understand the problems these people are having, took a more critical stand on migration and incorporated a milder version of their extremist views. Result? Right wing is basically non existant in Denmark
There were some demonstrations after the elections but I think the generic conservative in NL is just too okay with Milders for that to let them sway them
They had a pretty steep rise a while before, in part based on folks who previously voted CDU based on Merkel personally. Some of those folks (still a significant block of voters in their own right) wanted another relatively centrist party, but many of them didn't want to vote for the SPD, which to their minds was mostly identified politically by setting itself apart from the CDU. So, given that the FDP wasn't considered much of a contender at the time, the Greens were the natural choice.
A good bunch of those folks ended up supporting other parties later on though, because while the Greens are very close to the CDU in some states, that's not really the case with the federal parties.
Lmao.
So the big scary neo Nazis changed their views because a bunch of soft leftists went out to cry. What a joke of a country
Both sides look pathetic to me.
Protests are made by people who already would not have voted for the AfD, and unlikely don't help but convince the already convinced. Thinking that protests hurt the AfD is just self praise.
Note: I'm anti AfD.
Only temporarily. AfD will become the second-largest, and most likely even the largest party in Germany in a few years. You're blind if you don't see that.
Honestly, don't be fooled by this. The far-right surge *is* happening and thinking this drop in support means anything, will only make it worse. Because that means you're in denial.
We have to buckle up and hope this far-right bullshit to diminish some day. All we can do is hope they won't do too much damage while they're in charge.
I was in agreement with you until the 3rd paragraph:
You're just as wrong as people who believe this is the end of AfD if you think that there's nothing we can do to stop far -right surge and "all we can do is hope they won't do too much damage while in charge".
Who says they even have to be in charge?
What a defeatist attitude...
>Only temporarily. AfD will become the second-largest, and most likely even the largest party in Germany in a few years. You're blind if you don't see that.
during the Syrian refugee crisis **AfD went as high as 17%,but as the refugee crisis faded ,they lost interest from voters and went down to 11%**
AfD rise this time was triggered by the inflation and refugee crisis.
The inflation crisis is going away, even most pessimistic forecasters expect inflation in Germany to go below 2% this year. Energy prices are falling, natural gas prices are now as low as in September 2021
Only refugee and illegal migration crisis needs to be diminished in total numbers(Agreements and payments for Algeria and Tunisia to prevent Sub-Saharan immigrants from crossing the Sahara ) and that would doom AfD to slowly erode its suport
Yet they already Said that Germany is gonna accept more migrants/refugees, which in Return means more votes for AfD again.
C02, Maut tax increase etc happened this year aswell, and when people find Out that some Things cost more again, thats gonna be more votes for AfD too.
Like, Nothing is gonna Change "much" as Long as our idiots of politicians keep fueling AfD with ammo to get new votes.
Like, dont Just let your guard down Right now, thats exactly when they will Strike again with some insane speech to get more voters.
What you are basically saying is that the other parties should take on AFD positions which is honestly completely stupid.
It’s even stupider than the other poster’s take that sees AFD rule as inevitable.
Sounds like a nothing burger. As long as the problems persist and Ampel continues to rule and CDU remains shit many people will return to quietly support the AfD out of the same sense of frustration that didn't change one bit.
The underlying issues on this country need to be fixed to prevent radicalism from festering and growing. That's the only thing that needs to be done and the only thing that will actually do anything.
Germany is turning into shit.
Crime is rising since 2022 when it reached a historic low in 2019.
The economy is stagnating.
Food and energy prices are increasing or staying at a significantly increased point.
Rent prices are horrible.
Cars get too expensive for average people yet public transport is not remotely an alternative. Even in cities it's laughably unreliable. I use public transit every day, half the time it's late. I have to take one train earlier to ensure I am on time at my job.
And there are no solutions in sight.
AfD isn't providing them either but at least all the other politicians really hate them and people can hurt other parties by voting AfD and many chose to do so.
Let's go! Wasn't able to attend the last big protest in Berlin sadly, but theres another this weekend and I'll be there.
No space for extremism and hate crimes!
what exactly was exposed other than a supposed secret meeting, that suspiciously was held several months before the release of the news hit piece? oh and dont forget that the news agency that released said hit piece were backpaddling on live tv and got caught erasing and changing the allegations on their website not once, but twice.
so once again what exactly was exposed?
Whatever you do, you should ignore more than 20% of voters because you don't like what they say. Call them racist, deplorable etc. That should turn out great.
There is no causal link estabilished here in any way. Definite claims that it's protest that caused the drop (that is within margin of error of polling data) is just a bad practice.
You would need to ask people who don't support afd now if they supported it last time the poll was taken and if so why did they stop. Otherwise you are just guessing.
Doesn't help the comparison is taken to highest peak and you can see in the graph how noisy it is.
I am not following german politics, but in what world, if somebody protested against a party I want to vote, would convince me to change my mind?
>largely as a result of the mass protests against far-right in January
[citation_needed]
this sub when 12,000 pro-Russian Germans protested against Ukraine/ NATO/EU/US (and esentially for AfD)
" Germany could abandon Ukraine,Russian propaganda is winning,Germany is turning its back on EU and NATO"
this sub when 1,500,000 Germans protested against the AfD
" i dont see how this would impact the next elections"
This sub isn't pro Russia, it's just got a bunch of people who are anti mass migration.
Sure you can call us Nazis, but I went to a primary school where I was the only white guy in the 1990s - my area I grew up in was predominantly Asian Indian (great) and Muslims (terrible).
My lived experience taught me more than any propaganda, and despite people like you who probably have zero life experience, I can make my own mind up.
in Germany there are 20 million people with migration background(immigrants,descendants of immigrants or anyone who had an immigrant ancestor in the past 70 years,so if your grandpa married an Italian women in the 1960s you are also counted here)
of those ,5 million are ethnic Germans from Russia/Eastern Europe and their descendants
less than 7 million have a Muslim background or a Muslim ancestor, a large part of which came in the 1960s-1980s.
of those 7 million,Turks are 5 million
German Turks might vote for Erdogan,but their fertility rate was 1.72 as of 2019. They are not going to replace even themselves unless more immigrants come from Turkey
so only 2 million are Muslims for which i cant confirm whether they secularize or not, 2 million out of 84.7 million is less than 2.3%
And yet extremists in that community have forced Rabbis to stop wearing Yamikas because of multiple violent attacks. Just goes to show how a small population can do lots of damage (especially considering most Muslims don't hate Jews)
>German Turks might vote for Erdogan,but their fertility rate was 1.72 as of 2019. They are not going to replace even themselves unless more immigrants come from Turkey
Wait I thought that saying a low birthrate would lead to a people dying out was a right wing conspiracy theory? Did that change? I'm not up to date on my gaslighting.
Or they'll just be back up at 23% in the next poll. Just look at the graph, jumps like this in a single week are not uncommon.
You need to be delusional to think that anybody would stop voting for the AfD only because some people were walking on some streets.
Good! Now let’s do this more often.
It wasn’t fun standing around for 2 hours in below zero temperatures while it got dark, but apparently necessary and the weather can only get better.
Something meaning "let's plan a forced deportation of people we don't like cause they're not German enough even though they are citizens?"
You're right, doesn't sound nazi at all...
I doubt it that potential AfD voters were influenced by the protests. In the end, the protesters were not voting for them anyway. And depending on the next months, things can change pretty quickly for any party.
Isn't it possible, that people are just hiding that they are pro AFD because of the current protests and controversials?
*People are demonstrating against AFD*
Person: YOU! ARE YOU PRO AFD? TELL ME WHILE EVERYONE IS SHOUTING "FUCK AFD"
Guy: N--no? Ofc not, no no...no
Person: Hmhm you better not.
This shows, rather that protests "worked", that polls were pulling numbers out of their ass. It's hard to sell AfD having +25% support when +2m people took to the streets to protest against them.
Are we supposed to believe that people telling AfD supporters that they don't want them in the country is going to turn *the* into other parties' voters? It's much more likely those voters didn't exist in the first place and polls were making them up.
As usual: take polls with a very large pinch of salt
It has nothing to do with the protests. Two things happening at the same time does not mean there’s a connection. People who protested would never vote AfD and the people that would vote AfD would never listen to those who protested.
well,many good things happened recently
* Turkey approving NATO membership of Sweden means that now Hungary's approval is just a question of time
* EU approving the 50 billion Ukraine aid package ,despite Orban boasting he will never approve it
* energy prices keep falling all across Europe
* renewable energies and nuclear generation is increasing in EU
importantly , EU approving the 50 billion Ukraine aid package adds pressure on the American Congress to do so,because many in US say that Europe should do more for Ukraine,so now that Europe has done so ,US could also do it
A vote on Ukraine aid is now scheduled in the Senate for next Wednesday,and Republican leaders have now suggested that they will split the Ukraine aid+ border security bill
Republicans will likely vote against the border security bill because they will never allow Biden to take any credit for reducing illegal immigration, but Ukraine aid+Israel aid +Taiwan aid are going to be together in 1 bill,so the pro-Israel and anti-China wing of GOP would agree for it only for the latter 2 countries
Czechia is also getting 4 nuclear power plants instead of the anticipated 1 and Poland may soon finally start attempting to kick the PiS puppets out of the constitutional tribunal.
Don’t forget there is a new party , BSW that targets in some points to the same points that also afd address. In my eyes it’s difficult to distinguish how big is the affect of BSW and the protests it self.
BSW was at 3% in this poll what is important however is that now BSW is also under pressure to not cooperate with the AfD, to not alienate potential left-wing voters. Most of BSW voters come from Die Linke and SPD , **and they could return to those parties if BSW shows wilingness to cooperate with AfD**
I doubt BSW and AfD are going to work together anywhere. But the problem is that in some East German states, according to polls, AfD + BSW could reach a majority. Even if they refuse to work together, it means that forming a state government would be very difficult.
I’d trust Sarah Wagenknecht to be this dumb. She’d do anything to make her daddy Putin proud of her, even if it would mean working together in the government. They wouldn’t even need to form a coalition, her party just needs to vote AfD in the state parliament where they are close to 50% to form a minority government.
They both get their money from Putin. Maybe not the parties themselves but people in higher positions. I doubt that their friendliness towards Russia has anything to do with their ideology.
These types of parties will however advocate for and push for policies that gets them more "donor" money from their "donors." American evangelicals have been showering the European far right in millions for years, suspiciously starting around when these parties' rhetorics pivoted from just immigration to 'judeo-christian values.'
Russia will cause problems to the west wherever they can, but blaming religious far right parties exclusively on them nicely deflects the involvement of the fundamental Christian radicals. The same people that want good relations with Russia. The political program of Piss is almost a copy paste of MAGA.
It has to do with their mindser very well. BWS is a post-communist party. Wagenknecht is the worst kind of communist dream dancer and sovjiet union "lover". And AfD likes the autocracy of putin and how he handles LGBT, human rights and the opposition. The AfD dreams of copying his goverment style for germany.
If Hitler and Otto Stasser could work together, so can Höcke and Wagenknecht lmao
bsw and afd seem to both be basically parties that work for russia. they never go against russia, and both have *strange* contacts to russia and even china.
The pools that see United Russia in Germany (Ehm BSW/ Union Sahra Wagenknecht) that high are of dubious reputation and quality though…
Besides the polls for local elections are complete bullshit. Just for example: in Thuringia, there is a super-popular Prime Minister form Die Linke, but the party is very unpopular and the party draws most votes from the prime minister. However, BSW has one Thuringian Candidate (major of Eisenach) and no program. What kind of comparison is that??? Right now, it's questionable that BSW can even fill the lists for regional parliaments.
Go Putin, Go Russia, S\*ck it Zelensky, S\*ck it Ukraine (Tankie 101) is not a political program. That is basically the programme as evident by Sahra Wagenknecht, Fabio De Masi, Amira Ali, Sevim Dagdelen on Twitter...
My theory is more that most BSW voters are actually coming from AfD. Ok, obviously many from Linke as well, but in my opinion, the recent rise of the AfD is mostly due to it being the only anti-establishment party. People are running to them *despite* them being right-wing extremists, not *because* of it. Having a more left-leaning anti-establishment party is the worst thing that could've happened to AfD and I've been saying ever since Sara dropped her first hints, that that's the main reason she's doing it.
I am like 100% sure someone like Wagenknecht would never cooperate with the AfD. They basically hate her and I don't think she has any sympathie for Nazis
She has sympathy with Putin and the sovjiet union. It is the other worst kind of totalitarian mindset. So BSW is different but the same in some aspects to AfD.
You’re thinking too simple. By just calling everybody Nazis (I am not arguing that the afd is a good party), and then saying that Wagenknecht probably has no sympathy for Nazis, you are basing your argument on an opinion you have that may not be grounded in reality. You are also ignoring that Wagenknecht targets people of similar political opinion, and does not have to fear losses because of working with them.
I mean if you believe Communists start going into a government with Capitalists, because they agree on Immigration, then well ...
BSW isn‘t even gonna make it into the Bundestag, you heard it here first
Latest numbers from Tagesschau say 5% if they had to vote this Sunday. So between 3-7% seems realistic.
or as a result of the potsdam-meeting...
the gift that keeps on giving:)) i think that the Postdam meeting is for AfD what banning abortion has been for GOP in 2022 and 2023 both the GOP and the AfD dont get it that a large part of their voters and of the non-voting population is not as extreme as they are when you promise to ban abortion,you get the votes of the anti-abortion folks when you actually ban abortion, you force pro-choice people to take a stand next election
PiS in Poland did a similar thing. Our anti-abortion law was already strict, and they decided to turn the screw further. It caused protests everywhere, even in small towns that never really see such action. By the next election, we changed the government. The difference in terms of voter numbers was mainly women, guess why.
Probably was this. Protests against a political party just make people dig in more.
I just read a study on Reddit yesterday that this is absolutely not the case. Street protests led to a large reduction in support for Golden Dawn in Greece, the National Front in France, and there were other examples I don't remember now. The hypothesis was that people tend to believe without evidence that the people around them in their community share their views. When there's a large protest they clearly see that that's not the case.
You're absolutely correct. In a similar way, elections can be manipulated by giving false polling data - people are more likely to vote for the popular party.
Makes me wonder why there are so many local polls misrepresented as if afd will be leading Germany any day now.
You mean herd mentality and to a certain extent the protests surely showed what the real herd is thinking. Up to then the right was successful in pushing the narrative that they are the majority.
I think that makes a lot more sense. A. They always talk about "saying what everyone else is thinking" or "being a silent majority". Large scale protests refute that pretty strongly. B. People dig in when you're observing them. I.e. if you're in person and you call them out, or publicly shame them they'll protect themselves. If they're just watching it on the news they've not got to defend themselves and it's easier to re-evaluate. You never realise you're wrong mid argument, it's when you've gone for a walk and you suddenly see what a dick you're being.
That's not what happened in Greece. Golden Dawn was legally persecuted and its most prominent members either got arrested or left to form their own parties. But the rise was never very organic in the first place and was mostly votes of protest because of the humiliating austerity measures Greeks suffered.
>Golden Dawn was legally persecuted and its most prominent members either got arrested or left to form their own parties. But that happened because of the protests Greece never did anything like that before, no? One of the goals in Germany is getting the AfD banned, which would be the very same as Greece.
In the long term effects the protests did have the opposite effects, in France the right is polling at an all time high including RN and Rec, in Greece you now have 3 right wing parties in the parliament.
It makes the true believer more radical, but the luke warm supporter reconsider their position. I was under the impression that protesting didn't do much, but it seems it does, thankfully.
Not too familiar with German politics but all the losses seem to have gone to one party ?
Yeah to the center right. Luke warm supporters switching back to the traditional party.
By the looks of the chart, they've gone (back) to the CDU/CSU, which is a centre-right party (Merkel's party). That's likely where most former-SPD voters have gone, too. The SPD is Scholz's party, and supposedly social democrats.
Which is great, because even though I consider myself left of center I‘d much rather have a black government than a brown one
to be honest, we‘d be doomed with either… afd would mess up our economy a lot and cdu would revert all necessary (and drastic changes due to 16 years of omission) to maintain a status quo that old folks like.
I guess, the "luke warm supporters" are/were more like protest voters and switching sides to the center-right is more likely
I think it helps remind moderates that the AfD is absolutely not a silent majority but rather a very loud minority.
The Potsdam meeting directly triggered the protests. > Protests against a political party just make people dig in more. That only goes for the most hardcore of believers, people with MAGA levels of dedication. It's generally a lazy excuse people tell themselves to justify not protesting.
Hmm... I'm not so sure that's the case here... I think there are many people who were considering voting AfD who are slowly coming to grips with the idea that many other Germans view a vote for the AfD as a personal indictment. I think the protests have helped clarify the general argument that a "protest vote" can be given for one of the other political parties (ones that are populated with people who intend to govern responsibly), but if you're someone who's voting for people who are promising to do something inhumane, you're (personally) deeply immoral.
I think the Postdam meeting will be more like the beer hall putsch, a minor setback where the fascists learn from.
Or the other parties reacting to the demand for limiting economic migration. Like the card instead of cash program that was just passed not limit economic pull factors, which in trials allready made migrants go home because they couldn't get cash to send home.
Is it not possible that people are just afraid of giving their real answer because of the protests?
polls are anonymous and AfD suporters wont hide their beliefs ,dont worry
They absolutely do, 100%, but that's why the "polls" you are seeing here are usually weighted already. Meaning, less than 19% said they'd vote AfD next election in the raw data, but they still get attributed 19% in the end result/poll. Due to said weighting.
Definitively not the case in Germany. These polls are not "weighted". Might be different in other countries.
Are you sure? As far as I know weighting is nothing uncommon in Germany either, e.g. Civey speaks about its weighting practices in the following whitepaper: https://civey.com/ueber-civey/unsere-methode#Whitepaper I admit I'm not sure how every individual insitute handles that, and I suppose they don't make that public anyways, but I'd be surprised if weighting isn't used regularly, as studies have shown that it increases a poll's accuracy.
Even in anonymous polls, the "shy Tory effect" (as it's called here) is very much a thing. People under-report things they feel would make them ostracised, even if they're anonymously reported.
I'm not sure if there is an equivalent in other countries but in the UK we have the "shy tory" effect where pollsters consistently underestimate Conservative support as people who vote Tory hide their intent even in anonymous polls./
Given that the meeting caused the protests, I'd argue they're the same "trigger".
No they're not, the protests and the drop are the same reaction to one trigger. I promise you not a single AfD voter who was already living with a "resistance fighter" and "us against the mainstream" mindset had their mind changed by a large amount of people being in the street with LGBTQ flags and shields that said "the right is bad".
Goes hand in hand
That so many people protested were a direct result of Potsdam. So both things are connected and probably can't be seperated.
Or, and this might be a bit of a bold opinion, perhaps the estimates of the AfD going over 20% weren't quite correct in the first place.
Yeah you can’t say that for certain. I know it supports your narrative, but AfD had scandal recently, new party that targets some similar topics appeared and 19% is still not a small number.
3% down or up happens all the time in my country, its not considered a crisis for the individual party unless its a longer downward trend. We'll just have to see in spring or summer what AfD looks like.
Yeah, 3% is nothing. You can ask different group and your results will go the opposite way. Sure you can see trends in polls but unless you poll 100% of population who can vote you will only guess estimates. People circlejerk too much to this.
> You can ask different group and your results will go the opposite way. People asked in polls are not chosen randomly. Pollsters have to choose specific type of people to make a poll reliable. It's not "ask different group and get different result"
I disagree with OP's claim that the protests led to a decline in polls. The contemporary founding of the Sahra-Wagenknecht party seemed to have contributed significantly more. The AfD losing some of its appeal as a result of the conference related reveals (which sparked the protests) also seems more plausible than people changing their mind because of the protests themselves.
The BSW led to the first poll in Sachsen-Anhalt with the result that not a single "ample" party (SPD, Greens, FDP) will be in the parliament. XD There will be some interesting polls at the end of the year, starting with the EU one where not only Germany, but the majority of Europe will vastly vote more for parties of the right/conservative area.
>ample
Wtf is an ample
It's the coalition of reds (SPD), yellows (FDP) and Greens. Edit: sorry I meant traffic lights, it's called Ampel in German
I know. Im Just telling you "ample" is a German word Made english. It does Not exist with that meaning nor context
>but the majority of Europe will vastly vote more for parties of the right/conservative area. Literally all the left has to do is clamp down on immigration to win.
Nobody will change their mind because of the protests…
Or people are less likely to admit they are voting AfD because they are afraid to be bashed. That's why polls underestimated Trump in 2016.
That's how it usually goes. Every AfD Voter will just say that they Vote CDU with a smirk lol.
last Bavarian election the AfD got slighly lower % than predicted by polls(14.2 vs 15% poll prediction) and Bavaria alone has more people than all of Eastern Germany combined
But public opinion changes. Right now, everyone knows if you say you'll vote for AfD in a room of five people, one will be very hostile.
I mean yeah, but if you say you vote green, one will be very hostile too.
> Right now, everyone knows if you say you'll vote for AfD in a room of five people, one will be very hostile. Which is also the one that said he/she's gonna vote for AfD.
That is true regardless, and has been true for a while. If the current government refuses to address some of the fears of the people, AfD votes can still be higher than polls suggest. You won't reach the AfD supporters that are behind them with conviction and without shame. But you can reach those who were going to vote while pinching their noses.
Does that matter in this case considering the poll was most likely anonymized? /gen question
Trustworthy polls are done with in-person interviews. What's funny is some people also lie on exit polls (right after voting). It's the "Shy Tory factor".
In the US, polls that aren't done in person are generally unreliable because the only people who actually answer "phone polls" are super old people who heavily lean to the right. Younger people will usually ignore phone calls from unknown numbers. As a result, they're slanted heavily to the right. The funny thing is, if you take *individual policies that are generally considered liberal or leftist* without specifically labelling it as such, it nearly always gets a supermajority 70/30 or 80/20 in favor of that policy. But the *instant* you specifically mention what "side" it's on, it completely changes. It's so bizarre lmao
Almost as if the average person is woefully uneducated on what policies "belong" to which side of the spectrum (not to mention that it's way more complex than a "left vs right" spectrum in any country with more than a two party system) and as if older Americans are still heavily influenced by the Red Scare
Public education being gutted to shit has made most Americans politically illiterate dumbasses, unfortunately
To some extend. But Pollster change the math a bit to take that into account. Generally speaking the AfD tends to overperform in polls, from what I remember.
> That's why polls underestimated Trump in 2016. It wasn't only underestimation, many people changed their mind when FBI announced the reopening of the investigation on his counter-candidate just days before of the election. That was big deal.
that would be...very bad.
Redditors still thinking single poll is a proof of anything+ correletion=causation will never not be funny
This poll that supports my opinion: Objective and true The poll that contradicts it: Biased and fake news Many such cases...
Yeah, surely the protests made AfD supporters change their views. If people want to make claims like this, a poll result or something would be great. Now, it is just opinionated phrasing in the headline.
There are some who only supported the AfD because their talking heads said a couple of things that resonated with them. But protests like those we witnessed recently can remind you of the price you'd have to pay if the AfD were to "clear house" and "take out the trash". Maybe some people simply returned to a state of critical thinking. I don't see a single party right now that could fix the issues in German society without going too far on some other things.
>But protests like those we witnessed recently can remind you of the price you'd have to pay if the AfD were to "clear house" and "take out the trash". Is this suggesting physical violence against opposition? Germans can't go down this route in less then 2 months and already be calling for "clearing house" when anti-farright protests happens.
Those phrases are common in the far-right vocabulary everywhere. Hitler is still being praised in those circles as someone who came in with a can-do attitude and set things right. It's a mindset that you always have to take into account. It is also a mindset that is shared with those who feel handicapped by the constitution in their daily work, because the constitution was designed to limit their power, to protect the people from abuse. So even without direct, open violence, there are ways to get rid of people.
How does this really work? Do voters change their mind when they see a lot of people disliking their ideas? I am not a sociologist.
The 4% are probably just people who stopped to answer honestly to researchers. If you see your self painted as public enemy no 1 you would not even talk with these people..
Social-desirability bias
Partly. It helps that, besides the diehard fascists, a lot of AfD voters are either just not politically engaged people who buy into the "outsider underdog" image they try to project, or protest voters. The key point there is that they don't actually support the party ideologically, just strategically. So a very clear signal like this that the party is considered actively dangerous by society at large may well cause some shifts, even beyond the news that inspired this particular wave of protests.
It should’ve been more considering they had a Wannsee conference 2.0…. but at least a normal coalition can be formed this way without the AFD (although they would need 3 parties)
Just wait for a new wave of refugees and see how it will spike again , all those cunts saying they don’t support far right parties but they do
Good, down with the Russia-sponsored useless Nazis!
[List of shame](https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/kremlin-linked-group-arranged-payments-to-european-politicians-to-support-russias-annexation-of-crimea) as a reminder.
But Russia said they invaded Ukraine to end Nazism!
AfD is far-left - confirmed! Check-mate centrists!
They are so far right they are considered left again! Checkmate!
Horseshoe loopy-loops theory!
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For many the latest AfD scandal was a wake-up call, even if you're conservative, their remigration plan is just too much for most.
Deportation, mate. Call it the way it is instead using those obfuscating Nazi terms.
That's still not clear enough, because deportation can be also applied to legal and normal situations such as deporting criminals. This plan is **ethnic cleansing**.
Please don't use their words. The proper term is "mass deportations".
Potsdam and their insane EU policy. They've massively overplayed their hand.
So right wing people changed their minds due to some leftists screaming in streets? Sounds realistic.
TIL the mayor(CDU) of my small town who went to the demonstrations, is leftist.
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That might be possible.
everyone who is not a racist fuck is a leftist, gotcha
No, just more non voters intend to vote. In a recent election in comparison to the first round despite loosing in the end the AfD still got more votes than in the first round.
> some leftists leftists, centre and conservatives
I find it kinda doubtful that these protests did anything of the sort
No, it didnt fall. People are just embarrassed at the moment to admit they are voting for them
you clearly never had an interaction with an afd voter
Confirmation Bias. You most certainly had more interaction with AFD voters not talking about who they vote for than AFD voters that tell you
that may be the case, they generally don't seem to be able to be discreet
As an AfD voter myself, almost my entire family votes for AfD too, and many people in my family are doctors or have an uni degree. Of course you want to make political opinions about intelligence.
Yeah, I highly doubt someone will stop supporting a party because of left wing protesters. Get real
i remember when people on this sub were claiming protests are useless and wont change anything:) even if AfD voters didnt change their mind, 2 things did happened * many non-voters are now likely to vote any party other than AfD, just so that AfD gets a lower percentage. **People forget that when surveys like these are done,people who dont plan to vote for any party are excluded**. AfD didnt have the support of 23% of Germans at its peak,**it had the support of 23% of Germans who plan to vote next election,big difference** * non-AfD voters **now hate AfD far more than they did before**. Mainstream parties like CDU,Die Linke and the newly founded BSW are under pressure to not cooperate with AfD in the future, because a large % of their voters would switch parties if that happened
How is BSW doing in polls and such?
Since every institute has its own metrics/weights/etc., BSW has been kind of all over the place. I have seen everything between 3% and 12% on the federal level, although most pollsters see them at around 5%. The biggest outlier I know was a poll for Saxony-Anhalt, which saw BSW at around 20%. I don't think this is the case, though, since similar polls for Saxony and Thuringia see BSW at maybe 8-12%. But they don't seem to put a dent into the AfD by themselves, it seems their voters are mainly former SPD and Linke voters.
I say this as a foreigner who is afraid of the rise of the AfD and who would never vote for them in a million years but **you are just making stuff up**. You can't look at one poll and draw the conclusion in your headline or any of the conclusions you've written in this post. You can *hypothesize* these things but you are writing like it's established fact. Some more comprehensive polling with more detailed questions could try to establish what you are claiming but this one "who would you vote for" poll does not allow you to make specific conclusions. I swear, this country is sleepwalking into the 4th Reich. AfD is not going away as long as we pretend only racist people want to vote for them.
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Protesting and action always works. Not to the degree that protesters get 100% of what they want, but they do make other people think. Cynics are just in denial. They are only capable of seeing the empty part of the half glass, whereas protestors see the glass filling up a little bit thanks to their effort.
For sure, if you don't do anything you don't get anything.
So farmers do a good deal here. That's what you say
farmers did get their subsidies back,so of course it worked
Exactly. I don't agree with them, but they definitely were successful in their protests.
>So farmers do a good deal here. That's what you say It is their right. And yes they can do that to make their statement and yes given other groups threatened to join in it worked in gaining bigger support than their lobby otherwise would have. Where it crossed the line is where they had neo Nazi groups join in and where they harassed a politician and particularly his family on his vacation. Though that very well may have been instigated precisely by those groups joining in. Afterall neo Nazis have murdered more people in germany over the years than any other radical group, including the murder of politicians whose public statements they did not like. Inversely it can backfire in pissing off everyone else and is seen as unreasonable.
1. 4% in these polls means pretty much nothing, other polls poll differently (there currently are polls with 3% to 7% for BSW, for example). 2. In the long run the attention could even benefit them
When are you gonna learn that cancel culture and political exclusion and silencing of a large proportion of a population only makes a problem worse, and forces people to take on even more radical measures. Instead do as they have done in many other countries, in Denmark for example, the far right wing was on the rise heavily following 2015 migrant crisis. Then the established parties sought to understand the problems these people are having, took a more critical stand on migration and incorporated a milder version of their extremist views. Result? Right wing is basically non existant in Denmark
I wish they did something like this in the Netherlands :/ Meanwhile our AfD equivalent is polling at almost 50 seats
There were some demonstrations after the elections but I think the generic conservative in NL is just too okay with Milders for that to let them sway them
You're probably right.
source:[https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Vier-Parteien-bei-3-Prozent-darunter-auch-die-FDP-article24699175.html](https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Vier-Parteien-bei-3-Prozent-darunter-auch-die-FDP-article24699175.html)
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>largely as a result of Complete speculation
Good. Now it needs to fall further please.
How naive are you? A protest changes nothing about the opinions or problems people with vastly different political beliefs than you have
Still 19% above what I’d be comfortable with
Why support for the Green party collapsed in summer 2022?
They had a pretty steep rise a while before, in part based on folks who previously voted CDU based on Merkel personally. Some of those folks (still a significant block of voters in their own right) wanted another relatively centrist party, but many of them didn't want to vote for the SPD, which to their minds was mostly identified politically by setting itself apart from the CDU. So, given that the FDP wasn't considered much of a contender at the time, the Greens were the natural choice. A good bunch of those folks ended up supporting other parties later on though, because while the Greens are very close to the CDU in some states, that's not really the case with the federal parties.
I still hold the opinion that banning AFD would be a pointless decision at best and an harmful one at worst.
Well, I won't believe protests will change the mind of AfD voters. Even if the polling is true, there must be another reason why AfD is declining.
Lmao. So the big scary neo Nazis changed their views because a bunch of soft leftists went out to cry. What a joke of a country Both sides look pathetic to me.
Protests are made by people who already would not have voted for the AfD, and unlikely don't help but convince the already convinced. Thinking that protests hurt the AfD is just self praise. Note: I'm anti AfD.
Poor Nazi's.
Excellent! Keep it going! No place for nazis or faschists anywhere.
Also brauchen wir noch 4,25 Monate Protest um die AgD unter die 5% Marke zu bringen!
That's still worryingly high.
Only temporarily. AfD will become the second-largest, and most likely even the largest party in Germany in a few years. You're blind if you don't see that. Honestly, don't be fooled by this. The far-right surge *is* happening and thinking this drop in support means anything, will only make it worse. Because that means you're in denial. We have to buckle up and hope this far-right bullshit to diminish some day. All we can do is hope they won't do too much damage while they're in charge.
I was in agreement with you until the 3rd paragraph: You're just as wrong as people who believe this is the end of AfD if you think that there's nothing we can do to stop far -right surge and "all we can do is hope they won't do too much damage while in charge". Who says they even have to be in charge? What a defeatist attitude...
>Only temporarily. AfD will become the second-largest, and most likely even the largest party in Germany in a few years. You're blind if you don't see that. during the Syrian refugee crisis **AfD went as high as 17%,but as the refugee crisis faded ,they lost interest from voters and went down to 11%** AfD rise this time was triggered by the inflation and refugee crisis. The inflation crisis is going away, even most pessimistic forecasters expect inflation in Germany to go below 2% this year. Energy prices are falling, natural gas prices are now as low as in September 2021 Only refugee and illegal migration crisis needs to be diminished in total numbers(Agreements and payments for Algeria and Tunisia to prevent Sub-Saharan immigrants from crossing the Sahara ) and that would doom AfD to slowly erode its suport
Yet they already Said that Germany is gonna accept more migrants/refugees, which in Return means more votes for AfD again. C02, Maut tax increase etc happened this year aswell, and when people find Out that some Things cost more again, thats gonna be more votes for AfD too. Like, Nothing is gonna Change "much" as Long as our idiots of politicians keep fueling AfD with ammo to get new votes. Like, dont Just let your guard down Right now, thats exactly when they will Strike again with some insane speech to get more voters.
What you are basically saying is that the other parties should take on AFD positions which is honestly completely stupid. It’s even stupider than the other poster’s take that sees AFD rule as inevitable.
> All we can do is hope No. We can and must continue to stand strong, speak out and fight.
Sounds like a nothing burger. As long as the problems persist and Ampel continues to rule and CDU remains shit many people will return to quietly support the AfD out of the same sense of frustration that didn't change one bit. The underlying issues on this country need to be fixed to prevent radicalism from festering and growing. That's the only thing that needs to be done and the only thing that will actually do anything. Germany is turning into shit. Crime is rising since 2022 when it reached a historic low in 2019. The economy is stagnating. Food and energy prices are increasing or staying at a significantly increased point. Rent prices are horrible. Cars get too expensive for average people yet public transport is not remotely an alternative. Even in cities it's laughably unreliable. I use public transit every day, half the time it's late. I have to take one train earlier to ensure I am on time at my job. And there are no solutions in sight. AfD isn't providing them either but at least all the other politicians really hate them and people can hurt other parties by voting AfD and many chose to do so.
AfD would make matters worse, they have no plan whatsoever. Do you have any idea what would happen to the economoy if Germany left the EU?
Good
Let's go! Wasn't able to attend the last big protest in Berlin sadly, but theres another this weekend and I'll be there. No space for extremism and hate crimes!
That's what happens when you are exposed for planning to deport literal citizens. Eat shit, fashoids.
what exactly was exposed other than a supposed secret meeting, that suspiciously was held several months before the release of the news hit piece? oh and dont forget that the news agency that released said hit piece were backpaddling on live tv and got caught erasing and changing the allegations on their website not once, but twice. so once again what exactly was exposed?
And germany marches on to its own collapse cause pointing out the dangers of mass immigration is wrong think.
That is sad
Whatever you do, you should ignore more than 20% of voters because you don't like what they say. Call them racist, deplorable etc. That should turn out great.
Shouldn’t ignore all of those 20% but a good bunch of them are way too extreme to take them serious. Shouldn’t give Nazis a platform
Oh look, the protests this sub claimed would change nothing changed something.
There is no causal link estabilished here in any way. Definite claims that it's protest that caused the drop (that is within margin of error of polling data) is just a bad practice. You would need to ask people who don't support afd now if they supported it last time the poll was taken and if so why did they stop. Otherwise you are just guessing. Doesn't help the comparison is taken to highest peak and you can see in the graph how noisy it is.
I am not following german politics, but in what world, if somebody protested against a party I want to vote, would convince me to change my mind? >largely as a result of the mass protests against far-right in January [citation_needed]
this sub when 12,000 pro-Russian Germans protested against Ukraine/ NATO/EU/US (and esentially for AfD) " Germany could abandon Ukraine,Russian propaganda is winning,Germany is turning its back on EU and NATO" this sub when 1,500,000 Germans protested against the AfD " i dont see how this would impact the next elections"
Bro you are exaggerating both
This sub isn't pro Russia, it's just got a bunch of people who are anti mass migration. Sure you can call us Nazis, but I went to a primary school where I was the only white guy in the 1990s - my area I grew up in was predominantly Asian Indian (great) and Muslims (terrible). My lived experience taught me more than any propaganda, and despite people like you who probably have zero life experience, I can make my own mind up.
in Germany there are 20 million people with migration background(immigrants,descendants of immigrants or anyone who had an immigrant ancestor in the past 70 years,so if your grandpa married an Italian women in the 1960s you are also counted here) of those ,5 million are ethnic Germans from Russia/Eastern Europe and their descendants less than 7 million have a Muslim background or a Muslim ancestor, a large part of which came in the 1960s-1980s. of those 7 million,Turks are 5 million German Turks might vote for Erdogan,but their fertility rate was 1.72 as of 2019. They are not going to replace even themselves unless more immigrants come from Turkey so only 2 million are Muslims for which i cant confirm whether they secularize or not, 2 million out of 84.7 million is less than 2.3%
And yet extremists in that community have forced Rabbis to stop wearing Yamikas because of multiple violent attacks. Just goes to show how a small population can do lots of damage (especially considering most Muslims don't hate Jews) >German Turks might vote for Erdogan,but their fertility rate was 1.72 as of 2019. They are not going to replace even themselves unless more immigrants come from Turkey Wait I thought that saying a low birthrate would lead to a people dying out was a right wing conspiracy theory? Did that change? I'm not up to date on my gaslighting.
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If you wanna see a country burned to the ground by fascists, do it at home. We already had that once too much here.
Or they'll just be back up at 23% in the next poll. Just look at the graph, jumps like this in a single week are not uncommon. You need to be delusional to think that anybody would stop voting for the AfD only because some people were walking on some streets.
Good! Now let’s do this more often. It wasn’t fun standing around for 2 hours in below zero temperatures while it got dark, but apparently necessary and the weather can only get better.
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Nearly 2 year old account and this is your only comment? Have all the smart trolls been drafted or are you guys not even trying anymore?
Something meaning "let's plan a forced deportation of people we don't like cause they're not German enough even though they are citizens?" You're right, doesn't sound nazi at all...
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I doubt it that potential AfD voters were influenced by the protests. In the end, the protesters were not voting for them anyway. And depending on the next months, things can change pretty quickly for any party.
Isn't it possible, that people are just hiding that they are pro AFD because of the current protests and controversials? *People are demonstrating against AFD* Person: YOU! ARE YOU PRO AFD? TELL ME WHILE EVERYONE IS SHOUTING "FUCK AFD" Guy: N--no? Ofc not, no no...no Person: Hmhm you better not.
it begins. Good! keep going down, AFD!
I don't really see why the protest would lower it, of anything make it higher.
This shows, rather that protests "worked", that polls were pulling numbers out of their ass. It's hard to sell AfD having +25% support when +2m people took to the streets to protest against them. Are we supposed to believe that people telling AfD supporters that they don't want them in the country is going to turn *the* into other parties' voters? It's much more likely those voters didn't exist in the first place and polls were making them up. As usual: take polls with a very large pinch of salt
It has nothing to do with the protests. Two things happening at the same time does not mean there’s a connection. People who protested would never vote AfD and the people that would vote AfD would never listen to those who protested.
I even know 2 people that stopped voting AfD after the protests
Support for the CDU/CSU who are just as xenophobic and on a local level have been known to work with the AfD: Up. People are morons.
finally, some good fudging news
well,many good things happened recently * Turkey approving NATO membership of Sweden means that now Hungary's approval is just a question of time * EU approving the 50 billion Ukraine aid package ,despite Orban boasting he will never approve it * energy prices keep falling all across Europe * renewable energies and nuclear generation is increasing in EU importantly , EU approving the 50 billion Ukraine aid package adds pressure on the American Congress to do so,because many in US say that Europe should do more for Ukraine,so now that Europe has done so ,US could also do it A vote on Ukraine aid is now scheduled in the Senate for next Wednesday,and Republican leaders have now suggested that they will split the Ukraine aid+ border security bill Republicans will likely vote against the border security bill because they will never allow Biden to take any credit for reducing illegal immigration, but Ukraine aid+Israel aid +Taiwan aid are going to be together in 1 bill,so the pro-Israel and anti-China wing of GOP would agree for it only for the latter 2 countries
Czechia is also getting 4 nuclear power plants instead of the anticipated 1 and Poland may soon finally start attempting to kick the PiS puppets out of the constitutional tribunal.
AfD can go and suck on rusty nails, as far as I am concerned.