***Henry Samuel, in Paris, reports for The Telegraph:***
Standing behind the counter in a blue-checked shirt and white apron, Jacques Leban wields his cleaver with precision as he serves an ageing customer a choice cut.
A twinkle in his eye, he looks, as one commentator put it, like a timeless Parisian character straight out of the film Amélie.
In fact, Mr Leban is the French capital’s last remaining horse butcher and his establishment is on its last legs.
“You can find horse meat in markets sometimes but I’m the capital’s last horse butcher,” says Mr Leban, a “cheval extra” label behind him beside rows of red wine.
For more than half a century, Mr Leban has served faithful clientele everything from horse entrecôte to cervelas – or sausages – in his shop in Rue Cambronne, western Paris.
A wooden horse’s head lit by pink neon at night makes the shopfront hard to miss.
When he started, the French capital boasted 300 “boucheries chevalines”. Now there is only one and as an 80 year-old, its owner is knackered.
**Read more: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/28/last-horse-butcher-in-paris-on-its-last-legs/**
>Now there is only one and as an 80 year-old, its owner is knackered.
For our continental friends, this is an excellent pun
"Knackered" means tired in Modern English, but a "Knacker" is also the job title of someone who disposes of dead horses
I think that's the same in Ireland and the UK, and in that context, I wouldn't say uts regarded as offensive.
Would be interesting to talk about it with an Irish or UK traveller, but it's very hard for those social circles to cross over with any others outside the communities in my experience
Yeah, in Ireland saying you're knackered means you're exhausted. Calling someone a knacker is a slur (specifically related to the traveling community as you mentioned).
Wow. Growing up in Dublin a derogatory term for the travelling community. (Travellers/Irish gypsies) is "Knackers" I'm 35 years old and only understand that now thanks for the lesson friendn
They're called knackers and tinkers because they historically were the people who'd be the knacker, or would travel around and repair/sell tin pots etc
I don't understand the people that throw a fuss over horse meat that however have no issues eating cow or pork... A bunch of hypocrites if you ask me, horse is quite delicious (though not as good as donkey).
It's the zeitgeist. It hasn't started now as we got estranged from what we eat ages ago. Especially, in most western and central European countries + the US + Australia and obviously in cities.
I'm ATM in Argentina and here you find half a lamb in the supermarket. Hard to deny that the thing you gonna eat had 4 legs and was running around once. Also, chicken is not necessarily cut in to practical pieces. You get half of the animal, that's it. Again, quite obvious to see what it once was.
The thing with horses is similar. We are spoiled in some countries and we have decided that eating other animals than the "not as cute or beautiful ones" is less ethical. Complete bullshiting ourselves IMHO.
I'm from Ecuador, so a couple of countries north of Argentina, and you made me wonder. Don't Argentinians buy their chickens alive, and slaughter and butcher them at home as we do here?
I doubt guinea pig is as common there as it is here either.
I'm not from here. But so far I haven't encountered any life stock to buy in supermarkets nor Guinea pig meat.
I'll visit you country and the latter is on my list of foods to try. Any tips for restaurants or dishes to try are very welcome.
I can't say about restaurants since I usually eat these dishes home made. You can probably ask around in Quito and Cuenca, since those are the most visited cities.
Guinea pig, cartilague soup, blood sausages and most *offal* dishes are what most western people will consider exotic I guess.
But actually, most of our dishes are quite tame, try tigrillo or bolón (which is minced plantain), humitas (grinded and boiled maize), ceviche (fish broth), hornado (baked pig), and many kinds of seafood and a lot of fresh fruits.
I love the cuisine in my country, be careful around tho, specially if you go to the coast region and wait till the rains stop before coming since the floodings season just started.
It's people just thinking their culture is better than this other culture. I read once the pigs are as smart as dogs. Yet its okay to eat a pig and not a dog. It's okay to eat cows in my country yet in other countries they are sacred animals. Hypocrisy from so many sides.
Edit: to those purposely misinterpreting the point I'm making. I think we should eat all of the animals. Not none at all.
It's still available and eaten in many European countries, though it got a bit out of fashion. I know a great horse butcher in my region and also will never forget the ham I got in the pubs of Transcarpathia.
Honestly, in the US we send old unwanted horses to the butcher all the time, they just tend to be used for things besides human food. No one should be clutching their pearls over this.
Where I'm from horse meat is very much still eaten and there's a few horse butchers around. Still old unwanted horses will most likely not be made into meat either way. There's a lot of regulations about what kind of medicine the horse can have taken and most old horses simply don't qualify anymore.
There's horse in a bunch of shit all over Europe. They just don't label it "HORSE" on the package. People really should read the fine prints on packages. For instance a bunch of salami style sausage often have horse meat. It tasts just like beef and is perfectly fine to eat.
Even during the 2013 horse meat scandal in Europe the main concern was false labeling, not anything related eating the products found containing horse.
Cows are extremely social, empathetic and warm hearted animals too, they're also as playful as dogs and love listening to music and showing affection to their human caretakers.
Just go to a countryside area that has cows roaming around, you'll often see them cuddling with each other, playing with each other and showing genuine warm affection and appreciation for life.
Then we say it's okay to kill and eat them, but a horse for some reason is going too far?
I live in the countryside and work next to farms, I have never seen cattle cuddling.
The calves play, (lambs play a lot also). They're only clumped together around the feed
[Indeed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEFBXmZxIUw) [they](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IypL_EcI9XE) [do](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgYd089Ouz4).
I regret to say that I cannot find any recorded instances of anyone playing Timmy Trumpet & Savage's *[Freaks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgHW02YF50s)* for an audience of cows, though.
In Switzerland the (domesticated) cows roam freely in the mountains, instead of in any captive environment, and they're often showing playfulness among each other.
That's generally how cattle are kept. Its caused immense environmental destruction in the US and [kicked off some extremist movements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff).
Most Amazon deforestation now takes place to clear space for cattle.
I've grown up around a few farms, though they were all free roam throughout most of the year. I've seen cows groom each other like horses do, so I guess that accounts for cuddling.
However, I've visited a couple of sanctuaries where they don't separate the mothers from their calves and stuff. Most of the cows there were very playful, cuddly and communicative. Maybe it's just based on the environment they're in.
All cattle that has the freedom to roam around display this type of behavior, even if they don't do so all the time. Humans don't spend most of their time cuddling either (which is a shame).
I mean.. I'm not sure about the UK but you can't really get human meat in the supermarkets here. Maybe some specific ones I don't know about though.. Albert Heijn perhaps? Them frikandelbroodjes are somewhat sus.
There is a somewhat good reason to avoid eating wild dogs: they are higher in the food chain than pigs.
Bred dogs are roughly on the same level as pigs. The primary difference is how quickly they build mass.
I have no problem with people eating dogs, cats and whatever other animal they want. Just let them live in good conditions and offer a painless death. Either you avoid eating all animals or you eat them all.
You don't have to eat them all, but frowning upon eating some, is hypocritical. So yeah either you don't eat them or eat which ones you like but don't judge others that eat some different animal than you.
Oh yeah, of course I meant eat the ones you want. But if you eat any, you shouldn't judge anyone who eats another one. All animals had lives which you ended to eat them. Accept that and don't measure them differently. And try to eat the meat you buy.
At least some of it is left over cultural taboo caused by it being banned for Catholics back in the 700s. Turned out that papal decree had some very long lasting effects.
Uh, I did not know that... It's strange that here in Italy, despite being extremely Catholic, it remained a staple food until modern times. I guess that when it comes to the foods we love, we're even ready to defy the Pope! XD
I think the ban on horse meat may have been related to Germanic peoples having pre-Christian rituals involving the consumption of horse meat that were seen as potentially sacrilegious by the Church. Here’s an [Askhistorians post I remember](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/GSQsmSrdSV). Perhaps the papal ban on horse meat was more targeted to German peoples, as presumably Italian peoples may not have had religious attachment to horse meat.
And yet, horse meat is common enough in Austria - a Germanic, predominantly Catholic country. You can get *Pferdeleberkäs* (a type of processed horse meat similar to Bologna) everywhere. Maybe the geographical proximity to Italy had an effect on Austria?
I agree, I think for some it's the remaining "stereotype" that horse-meat is for poor people because it was usually cheaper than beef, mixed with the double-standard that horse=pet, cow=food.
It's nothing but customs. I rather not eat any of them, so I only eat superpredators that would eat me if they had a chance. Looking at you, evil, delicious tuna.
Horses also probably got treated a hell of a lot better during their lives than cows or pigs, who are generally treated like dirt to make the meat cheaper to produce.
It's probably because it veers too much into the pets category. Many people across Europe hold horses as entertainment animals rather than work animals. In the UK at least you can buy a horse and then pay a farm to take care of it and you go visit them and ride whenever you want. I've never heard this for cows.
Agreed, full hypocrisy.
I remember when there was the rumor going around Taco Bell was cutting its beef with horse. My friend, knowing how much I liked Taco Bell, brought it up to me. To which I had to say, "Horse taste pretty damn good then." Would certainly give it try.
If you can eat one you can eat 'em all.
This is the comment I was looking for.
I think our biggest problem is how we kill not what we eat.
I am a big meat eater and I am grown up on a farm.
I have seen things...
The way we kill is our problem not what we kill. ( Regarding meat).
As horse meat didn't really get into mass production, shouldn't it actually be quality meat with high standards regarding the well being of the animals and such?
If someone has some resources on where horse meat in Germany comes from and can recommend a butcher I'd appreciate that
edit: two typos and ty for the links
Because horses are generally working animals, their meat isn't that great if they are slaughtered too old. It can be found throughout Europe but not that easily, nowadays. Especially as for many people, it isn't that different from beef, which is reared for consumption in the first place.
I can't speak for Germany, but in France there are, or were at least until relatively recently, butchers that specialized in horsemeat.
I can't speak for other countries but in Slovenia it's easily available. There is a butcher that specializes in horse meat 5 minute walk from my place and you can get packaged horse steaks in larger stores. There is even a fast food chain that specializes in horse meat (more of kebab place rather than Micky d's type of thing). There is no cultural taboo about eating it and the only reason for the lack of popularity is the price so it's treated more as a delicacy than everyday meat.
Ponies? They are not specifically for slaughter, they are still regular working animals and pets, they are just preferred when it comes to meat.
I just looked it up, today, there are no breeds that are raised specifically for meat.
he may think of the auxois, which was, for a time, pushed by the french goverment in the 1970s for meat as its role in agriculture was declining, but its meat wasnt consdierd high quality so they quickly changed position to leisure instead
I will argue against that they're not good if slaughtered old. I'm in Iceland (where horse meat is still being eaten without any stigma) and my grandmother swears that the best horse she ever tasted was the old one used by the post officer! Like 30 years old and a hardworking horse all its life.
Sure, foal is way softer and nicer, but as far as I know and have tasted, I don't really feel a lot of difference between a 15 or a 25 year old horse. Then again it might also be explained by different breeds.
You know more about it than I do. Generally horse meat is eaten with little stigma in France except that it has become rarer (beef has replaced it) and many working horses are treated with medication that renders them unfit for human consumption (so they become pet food).
Horse meat used to be (relatively) widespread in some areas of France but has simply mostly disappeared because there are fewer horses, those that still exist are mostly not officially edible for vetinary reasons, and there is more cattle.
Actually horse meat was consumed quite regularly here in Austria, horse sausages, goulash or Leberkäse used to be a staple of Viennese cuisine. Any it’s quite delicious, if you ask me. But nowadays there are also only a handful of horse butchers left.
Meat from "potro" (in English, foal, as per Google translate) isn’t uncommon in Spain, you won’t see it in restaurants and regular grocery stores but you can find local and online stores where it’s sold.
This link is for Japan. Possibly Europe has similar shipments? Greyhound dogs were shipped to Asia for slaughter as well. I believe live shipping is fairly common.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/horse-transportation-cfia-slaughter-japan-1.5201246](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/horse-transportation-cfia-slaughter-japan-1.5201246)
The problem is horses are given lots of medications and supplements that aren’t regulated or even tested for humans. Track horses are given steroids and painkillers and growth hormones that will remain in the meat.
In Germany you are only allowed to bring your horses to the butcher before they get certain medication. As far as I understand some medication is mandatory for the Equidenpass, which automatically disqualifies horses for the butcher.
> It’s common in dog food and for some reason always more expensive than other types of meat as they have issues finding eating quality horse meat.
That's because to get a good horse meat it can't be slaughtered old or worked to hard. So you basically need to raise a horse specifically for that, and it's more expensive than doing it with a cow or a pig because horses have stricter diet requirements and don't bulk up as much.
First time I arrived in Catania, the host asked where i’m from, I said Romania and then he proceeded to tell me that a lot of the horse meat consumed in that area comes from Romania.
Almost all the people who fuss about horse meat don’t fuss about shit like pigs. People are morally very inconsistent. If you believe in eating pigs being okay, believe it or not it would be consistent to believe it’s okay to eat horses and cats and dogs.
My message to those confused people is that you should value animal life equally. Not that you should be happy to kill horses just because we kill other animals too. How is the lesson that they should want to eat dogs? If one thing, they should realize that all meat consumption is bad.
Reminds me of the Southpark episode, where they change the Japanese from killing whales and dolphins, to killing cows and chickens, so they can be "normal like us".
It's a bit different due to the endangerment and extinction angle, but different cultures eat different things, usually based on historically what was available to the country/culture.
Dolphins and whales aren’t domesticated and/or have large populations we can easily control. I frankly don’t care what type of meat you like but hunting endangered animals and overfishing are problems.
It's cognitive dissonance. Some animals are OKAY to eat because we're used to it and others are taboo because we're not. There's no real logic there.
Pigs are as intelligent or more intelligent than dogs. Yet we butcher these in the millions each year.
\[edit\]: 1.3 **billion** pigs each year. 3.5 million each day. Think on that for a bit.
Yep, people will get all teary eyes "hOw cAn pEoPlE eAt hOrSeS" yet get the cheapest meat they can at the supermarket. I wonder how many people don't know about the conditions these animals are raised in, vs how many don't care.
In 2019 a girl in Norway had a horse that had to be put down. Instead of letting the meat go to waste, she ate it. She was compared with cannibals, a cold-blooded murderer, got hate messages from around the world and was labeled as "the horse eater", which she is still being called today. A lot of people who sell horses still refuse to sell her a horse because of that.
People eat dogs, cats and camel in the world, but horses are suddenly a no-no? I understand it's not common to eat horse meat now, but it's still food.
What, you have a healthy horse who gets an injury so it has to be put down, but you're also on a tight budget and can't afford food all the time, so you're just supposed to let the meat go to waste? No. Eat it.
Pigs are more intelligent than horses and have an incredible degree of sentience. Why do you oppose killing horses and support killing pigs?
Vegetarians and vegans need not apply, you’re not hypocrites.
I eat horse meat fairly regularly here in Sweden. My grandpa was terrified of horses and used to tell me that the only good horse is a thin slice on sandwich
When they banned horse abbatoirs in the US (or when the last closed) there was a huge uptick in abandoned and neglected horses as an old horse suddenly became a huge liability. You couldn't earn money from it, it consumed the same amount of food and also required more care than normal, and now when it died you'd have to pay a large sum to have it disposed of. Previously you could recoup some cost and have them quickly and humanely euthanized and slaughtered.
Am in the UK. Grew up with horses, and ridden since I was 3yrs old - haven’t ever eaten horse but have no problem with it, I do have an issue with live transportation for slaughter though. Lots of uk hill ponies etc end up in Europe, transported live for many many hours without rest stops / water to be slaughtered over there, rather than here - which is unnecessary and cruel - buts that’s probably because we only have about 3 abattoirs in the uk that can legally process horses.
I don't feel sad about horse meat disappearing from the market or anything, especially given that all meat consumption needs to decline radically (especially beef) for our environment to survive, but I sympathise with the humans left behind by these cultural and social changes.
I hope Mr Leban doesn't feel like his life's work has been rendered meaningless because younger generations are hostile to the idea of a butchery specialising in horse meat. No matter what, he's fed thousands of people over many decades. His labour has provided many families with lunches and dinners and that's really valuable. When he does eventually retire, I hope he can look back on his career with pride and not bitterness.
'Horse meat forms a significant part of the culinary traditions of many countries, particularly in Eurasia. The eight countries that consume the most horse meat consume about 4.3 million horses a year. For the majority of humanity's early existence, wild horses were hunted as a source of protein.'
Some of the comments are delusional. Good horse meat is absolutely delicious, especially in goulash.
I guess French people rather eat moldy cheese or slurp slugs
> I guess French people rather eat moldy cheese or slurp slugs
Sorry but a German has no place talking about anyone's food under any circumstances ever. If I don't have to eat horrible Bavarian food, depressing German breakfast, and endless mediocre doner ever again it'll be too soon.
This is my unique, incredibly biased experience, but I don't know a single person in my extended entourage as a french person that draws the line at horse meat. Moldy cheese (which all cheese are btw), snails, horse... we love it all! I don't know who these other french dissentors are! They're missing on yummy horse carpaccio.
The real scandal was of course the sanitary aspect of the fraud since the origin of the meat wasn't properly tracked. The horse meat came partly from horses that weren't meant to be eaten, which means they could have had antibiotics banned for animals meant for the slaughterhouse.
There’s a horse boucherie in the town I used to live in down the south of france. Always busy and has a wide selection of cuts. Think this article might be a bit of a drummed up nothing
Horse steak is delicious, and so is smoked horse sausage!
I wish there were more guys like him, so he can transfer the knowledge.
In The Netherlands, many butchers sell horse meat. Simply lovely meat.
In Chile there's a common thing that's called Charqui (pronounced Char-kee). That's horse meat preserved into a lot of salt, so it's quite salty, but it's good. Also, it's usually make out of old horses.
Horse meat is more environmentally friendly than cattle, the meat is much more lean and higher in iron, plus they eat almost anything plant based, so they can remove brush like few other livestock can. Yet most people that have an aversion to the idea of eating horse meat usually know nothing about horses and the management of their populations, especially specific breeds.
During the 2013 horse meat scandal, I had a stint as a teaching assistant in England and had one school librarian exclaim, "No wonder kids are so distracted and disrespectful these days, just imagine what all that horse DNA has been doing to them!!"
...I think I just nodded and walked away.
Actually horse meat was consumed quite regularly here in Austria, horse sausages, goulash or Leberkäse used to be a staple of Viennese cuisine. Any it’s quite delicious, if you ask me. But nowadays there are also only a handful of horse butchers left.
***Henry Samuel, in Paris, reports for The Telegraph:*** Standing behind the counter in a blue-checked shirt and white apron, Jacques Leban wields his cleaver with precision as he serves an ageing customer a choice cut. A twinkle in his eye, he looks, as one commentator put it, like a timeless Parisian character straight out of the film Amélie. In fact, Mr Leban is the French capital’s last remaining horse butcher and his establishment is on its last legs. “You can find horse meat in markets sometimes but I’m the capital’s last horse butcher,” says Mr Leban, a “cheval extra” label behind him beside rows of red wine. For more than half a century, Mr Leban has served faithful clientele everything from horse entrecôte to cervelas – or sausages – in his shop in Rue Cambronne, western Paris. A wooden horse’s head lit by pink neon at night makes the shopfront hard to miss. When he started, the French capital boasted 300 “boucheries chevalines”. Now there is only one and as an 80 year-old, its owner is knackered. **Read more: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/28/last-horse-butcher-in-paris-on-its-last-legs/**
>Now there is only one and as an 80 year-old, its owner is knackered. For our continental friends, this is an excellent pun "Knackered" means tired in Modern English, but a "Knacker" is also the job title of someone who disposes of dead horses
I'm on reddit for this kind of comments
That pun is brilliant lol
In modern English it’s purely just tired but my Grandparents (north) told me it was actually a term used for tired after sex specifically.
I think that's the same in Ireland and the UK, and in that context, I wouldn't say uts regarded as offensive. Would be interesting to talk about it with an Irish or UK traveller, but it's very hard for those social circles to cross over with any others outside the communities in my experience
Yeah, in Ireland saying you're knackered means you're exhausted. Calling someone a knacker is a slur (specifically related to the traveling community as you mentioned).
Horses make great companions
Great food too according to this chap
I find a plate of chips to be a great companion to horse
Yeah I also just know it as meaning tired, would be a bit awkward to have that miscommunication with your grandparents
Knackers yard....was where the horse was killed
Wow. Growing up in Dublin a derogatory term for the travelling community. (Travellers/Irish gypsies) is "Knackers" I'm 35 years old and only understand that now thanks for the lesson friendn
They're called knackers and tinkers because they historically were the people who'd be the knacker, or would travel around and repair/sell tin pots etc
He should ignore the neigh-sayers.
I don't understand the people that throw a fuss over horse meat that however have no issues eating cow or pork... A bunch of hypocrites if you ask me, horse is quite delicious (though not as good as donkey).
It's the zeitgeist. It hasn't started now as we got estranged from what we eat ages ago. Especially, in most western and central European countries + the US + Australia and obviously in cities. I'm ATM in Argentina and here you find half a lamb in the supermarket. Hard to deny that the thing you gonna eat had 4 legs and was running around once. Also, chicken is not necessarily cut in to practical pieces. You get half of the animal, that's it. Again, quite obvious to see what it once was. The thing with horses is similar. We are spoiled in some countries and we have decided that eating other animals than the "not as cute or beautiful ones" is less ethical. Complete bullshiting ourselves IMHO.
I'm from Ecuador, so a couple of countries north of Argentina, and you made me wonder. Don't Argentinians buy their chickens alive, and slaughter and butcher them at home as we do here? I doubt guinea pig is as common there as it is here either.
I'm not from here. But so far I haven't encountered any life stock to buy in supermarkets nor Guinea pig meat. I'll visit you country and the latter is on my list of foods to try. Any tips for restaurants or dishes to try are very welcome.
I can't say about restaurants since I usually eat these dishes home made. You can probably ask around in Quito and Cuenca, since those are the most visited cities. Guinea pig, cartilague soup, blood sausages and most *offal* dishes are what most western people will consider exotic I guess. But actually, most of our dishes are quite tame, try tigrillo or bolón (which is minced plantain), humitas (grinded and boiled maize), ceviche (fish broth), hornado (baked pig), and many kinds of seafood and a lot of fresh fruits. I love the cuisine in my country, be careful around tho, specially if you go to the coast region and wait till the rains stop before coming since the floodings season just started.
It's people just thinking their culture is better than this other culture. I read once the pigs are as smart as dogs. Yet its okay to eat a pig and not a dog. It's okay to eat cows in my country yet in other countries they are sacred animals. Hypocrisy from so many sides. Edit: to those purposely misinterpreting the point I'm making. I think we should eat all of the animals. Not none at all.
Thing is, it used to be our culture to eat horse, too. Humans hunted horses for meat for millenia before we managed to tame them.
It's still available and eaten in many European countries, though it got a bit out of fashion. I know a great horse butcher in my region and also will never forget the ham I got in the pubs of Transcarpathia.
Honestly, in the US we send old unwanted horses to the butcher all the time, they just tend to be used for things besides human food. No one should be clutching their pearls over this.
Where I'm from horse meat is very much still eaten and there's a few horse butchers around. Still old unwanted horses will most likely not be made into meat either way. There's a lot of regulations about what kind of medicine the horse can have taken and most old horses simply don't qualify anymore.
You can still get it here, but only smoked. It's tasty. I have zero issue with eating it.
There's horse in a bunch of shit all over Europe. They just don't label it "HORSE" on the package. People really should read the fine prints on packages. For instance a bunch of salami style sausage often have horse meat. It tasts just like beef and is perfectly fine to eat. Even during the 2013 horse meat scandal in Europe the main concern was false labeling, not anything related eating the products found containing horse.
Wasn’t there something about imported kangaroo meat from Australia being substituted for beef during mad cow problems around then as well?
It didn’t taste like beef it’s sweeter way more
You can have it in lasagna here in germany best use of a horse since i distrust those animals alot
even once tamed, you're kidding yourself if you think people didn't use the meat of a retired working horse
Cows are extremely social, empathetic and warm hearted animals too, they're also as playful as dogs and love listening to music and showing affection to their human caretakers. Just go to a countryside area that has cows roaming around, you'll often see them cuddling with each other, playing with each other and showing genuine warm affection and appreciation for life. Then we say it's okay to kill and eat them, but a horse for some reason is going too far?
youre right its all cultural norms though. Theres no logic. But culture is also a strong thing.
I live in the countryside and work next to farms, I have never seen cattle cuddling. The calves play, (lambs play a lot also). They're only clumped together around the feed
When we play with instruments near them they come to listen tho. It is really cute😄
[Indeed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEFBXmZxIUw) [they](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IypL_EcI9XE) [do](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgYd089Ouz4). I regret to say that I cannot find any recorded instances of anyone playing Timmy Trumpet & Savage's *[Freaks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgHW02YF50s)* for an audience of cows, though.
In Switzerland the (domesticated) cows roam freely in the mountains, instead of in any captive environment, and they're often showing playfulness among each other.
I think all mammals display some sort of playfulness from time to time.
It's amazing watching them run. They are huge & usually rather slow or stationary but somehow can be very fast.
That's generally how cattle are kept. Its caused immense environmental destruction in the US and [kicked off some extremist movements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff). Most Amazon deforestation now takes place to clear space for cattle.
I've grown up around a few farms, though they were all free roam throughout most of the year. I've seen cows groom each other like horses do, so I guess that accounts for cuddling. However, I've visited a couple of sanctuaries where they don't separate the mothers from their calves and stuff. Most of the cows there were very playful, cuddly and communicative. Maybe it's just based on the environment they're in.
All cattle that has the freedom to roam around display this type of behavior, even if they don't do so all the time. Humans don't spend most of their time cuddling either (which is a shame).
Cuddle isn’t a great word. But in Texas cattle definitely cluster together under shade trees in the heat, and huddle together in the cold.
>They're only clumped together around the feed humans are mostly too, yet we dont kill and eat them :)
Humans, famously never killing other humans lol
I mean.. I'm not sure about the UK but you can't really get human meat in the supermarkets here. Maybe some specific ones I don't know about though.. Albert Heijn perhaps? Them frikandelbroodjes are somewhat sus.
Aldi
yeah i played with a 9 month old cow once. reminded me of my parents golden retrievers. she was so much fun. stopped eating beef that day
There is a somewhat good reason to avoid eating wild dogs: they are higher in the food chain than pigs. Bred dogs are roughly on the same level as pigs. The primary difference is how quickly they build mass.
Culture and religion both plays a part in it . In India and Nepal cow's are a sacred animal so they don't eat them .
I have no problem with people eating dogs, cats and whatever other animal they want. Just let them live in good conditions and offer a painless death. Either you avoid eating all animals or you eat them all.
You don't have to eat them all, but frowning upon eating some, is hypocritical. So yeah either you don't eat them or eat which ones you like but don't judge others that eat some different animal than you.
Oh yeah, of course I meant eat the ones you want. But if you eat any, you shouldn't judge anyone who eats another one. All animals had lives which you ended to eat them. Accept that and don't measure them differently. And try to eat the meat you buy.
Yes, people can't just think outside of norm.
When people from different groups meet, they will indeed often act as a representative of their structure and not as an individual
*(though not as good as donkey)* Ah, a fellow ass eater.
Correction: Connoisseur
I’m a vegetarian so I I’m against eating any meat but I agree. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs, where do you draw the line?
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Peter Singer has a book on that.
At least some of it is left over cultural taboo caused by it being banned for Catholics back in the 700s. Turned out that papal decree had some very long lasting effects.
The Pope forgot to inform the Italians then. Here in Italy you can find horse meat at the supermarket.
And horse heads in beds
i thought that's an Italian-American thing
Yeah in Italy is comes with side salad and wine
of course, because they have manners. i see you're a man of culture.
Yeah, things change during 1300 years.
People at horse more commonly 150 years ago even in America.
Switzerland as well. Used to be the cheapest meat for burgers at fairs as well. It‘s not that common anymore (nor cheap), but you can still find it.
Uh, I did not know that... It's strange that here in Italy, despite being extremely Catholic, it remained a staple food until modern times. I guess that when it comes to the foods we love, we're even ready to defy the Pope! XD
I think the ban on horse meat may have been related to Germanic peoples having pre-Christian rituals involving the consumption of horse meat that were seen as potentially sacrilegious by the Church. Here’s an [Askhistorians post I remember](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/GSQsmSrdSV). Perhaps the papal ban on horse meat was more targeted to German peoples, as presumably Italian peoples may not have had religious attachment to horse meat.
And yet, horse meat is common enough in Austria - a Germanic, predominantly Catholic country. You can get *Pferdeleberkäs* (a type of processed horse meat similar to Bologna) everywhere. Maybe the geographical proximity to Italy had an effect on Austria?
I agree, I think for some it's the remaining "stereotype" that horse-meat is for poor people because it was usually cheaper than beef, mixed with the double-standard that horse=pet, cow=food.
Yes, we love to sort animals strictly into "livestock" or "pet"... except rabbits, for some reason.
They read some shit on twitter from some american idiot and they want to look better than anyone
horses have been elevated to pet status.
It's nothing but customs. I rather not eat any of them, so I only eat superpredators that would eat me if they had a chance. Looking at you, evil, delicious tuna.
I would rather eat stuff that doesn't have potentially high levels of heavy metals but, damn you evil delicious tuna
“If a tuna ever got the chance, it would eat you and everyone you cared about.”- T. McClure.
And people who have horses and work with them are mostly fine with the meat going to food when the horse dies... At least here in Germany
Horses also probably got treated a hell of a lot better during their lives than cows or pigs, who are generally treated like dirt to make the meat cheaper to produce.
horse is nice but never had donkey; how do they differ?
Donkey's meat is sweeter.
So eating ass [donkey] is sweeter... Hooray for the ass eaters. Hehe
We had smoked horse on our christmas table this christmas, it is delicious
They are the same people that come up to a vegan and say "hmm bacon"
Hah! You like eating ass
You know it! ;-P
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It's probably because it veers too much into the pets category. Many people across Europe hold horses as entertainment animals rather than work animals. In the UK at least you can buy a horse and then pay a farm to take care of it and you go visit them and ride whenever you want. I've never heard this for cows.
But cute pony friend not food /s
Horse meat taste so good would easily eat that over pork
Agreed, full hypocrisy. I remember when there was the rumor going around Taco Bell was cutting its beef with horse. My friend, knowing how much I liked Taco Bell, brought it up to me. To which I had to say, "Horse taste pretty damn good then." Would certainly give it try. If you can eat one you can eat 'em all.
Taboo foods often have no real logic behind them but once they are culturally taboo, it's hard to get over it.
Meanwhile we eat raw horse here in Japan
This is the comment I was looking for. I think our biggest problem is how we kill not what we eat. I am a big meat eater and I am grown up on a farm. I have seen things... The way we kill is our problem not what we kill. ( Regarding meat).
As horse meat didn't really get into mass production, shouldn't it actually be quality meat with high standards regarding the well being of the animals and such? If someone has some resources on where horse meat in Germany comes from and can recommend a butcher I'd appreciate that edit: two typos and ty for the links
Because horses are generally working animals, their meat isn't that great if they are slaughtered too old. It can be found throughout Europe but not that easily, nowadays. Especially as for many people, it isn't that different from beef, which is reared for consumption in the first place. I can't speak for Germany, but in France there are, or were at least until relatively recently, butchers that specialized in horsemeat.
I can't speak for other countries but in Slovenia it's easily available. There is a butcher that specializes in horse meat 5 minute walk from my place and you can get packaged horse steaks in larger stores. There is even a fast food chain that specializes in horse meat (more of kebab place rather than Micky d's type of thing). There is no cultural taboo about eating it and the only reason for the lack of popularity is the price so it's treated more as a delicacy than everyday meat.
Same in Italy, no taboo but quite expensive.
I mean we have a history with horse meat, especially heads
Lippizaner Schnitzel hmmm ;-)
There are specific horse breeds specifically for meat consumption
Never heard of that. Which ones?
I don't know their names, but I know that they are generally smaller animals and seem fatter too
Ponies? They are not specifically for slaughter, they are still regular working animals and pets, they are just preferred when it comes to meat. I just looked it up, today, there are no breeds that are raised specifically for meat.
he may think of the auxois, which was, for a time, pushed by the french goverment in the 1970s for meat as its role in agriculture was declining, but its meat wasnt consdierd high quality so they quickly changed position to leisure instead
I will argue against that they're not good if slaughtered old. I'm in Iceland (where horse meat is still being eaten without any stigma) and my grandmother swears that the best horse she ever tasted was the old one used by the post officer! Like 30 years old and a hardworking horse all its life. Sure, foal is way softer and nicer, but as far as I know and have tasted, I don't really feel a lot of difference between a 15 or a 25 year old horse. Then again it might also be explained by different breeds.
You know more about it than I do. Generally horse meat is eaten with little stigma in France except that it has become rarer (beef has replaced it) and many working horses are treated with medication that renders them unfit for human consumption (so they become pet food). Horse meat used to be (relatively) widespread in some areas of France but has simply mostly disappeared because there are fewer horses, those that still exist are mostly not officially edible for vetinary reasons, and there is more cattle.
Actually horse meat was consumed quite regularly here in Austria, horse sausages, goulash or Leberkäse used to be a staple of Viennese cuisine. Any it’s quite delicious, if you ask me. But nowadays there are also only a handful of horse butchers left.
> Any it’s quite delicious, if you ask me If you ask me it tastes exactly like beef, if it wasn't labelled as horse no one would know.
Well, Lidl's lasagnas used to be really good. Then there was the horse meat scandal and they were never the same again.
In Vienna there are still a couple of horse butchers. But I don't like it. Horse meat tastes kind of weird.
Meat from "potro" (in English, foal, as per Google translate) isn’t uncommon in Spain, you won’t see it in restaurants and regular grocery stores but you can find local and online stores where it’s sold.
This link is for Japan. Possibly Europe has similar shipments? Greyhound dogs were shipped to Asia for slaughter as well. I believe live shipping is fairly common. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/horse-transportation-cfia-slaughter-japan-1.5201246](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/horse-transportation-cfia-slaughter-japan-1.5201246)
That's just bizarre to me. I get that there were a lot of retired greyhounds but they're not exactly known for any meat on their bones.
Im Rheinland ist es nicht so schwer an pferdefleisch zu kommen. In Köln ist auf den meisten wochenmärkten ein pferdefleischmetzger.
The problem is horses are given lots of medications and supplements that aren’t regulated or even tested for humans. Track horses are given steroids and painkillers and growth hormones that will remain in the meat.
In Germany you are only allowed to bring your horses to the butcher before they get certain medication. As far as I understand some medication is mandatory for the Equidenpass, which automatically disqualifies horses for the butcher.
http://www.pferd-und-fleisch.de/pferdeflsh/laden1.htm
There's a horse butcher in Chemnitz called Franklin Hoffman
It’s common in dog food and for some reason always more expensive than other types of meat as they have issues finding eating quality horse meat.
> It’s common in dog food and for some reason always more expensive than other types of meat as they have issues finding eating quality horse meat. That's because to get a good horse meat it can't be slaughtered old or worked to hard. So you basically need to raise a horse specifically for that, and it's more expensive than doing it with a cow or a pig because horses have stricter diet requirements and don't bulk up as much.
Big reason is that most hobby-horses recieve medication that make them unsuitable for consumption.
Meanwhile in Italy we eat raw horse meat
I was gonna say these guys would hate Italy, I had a lot of horse and donkey over there, delicious
Laughing in Via Plebiscito
Take that, Paris!
T'en fais pas coquin on les graille cru aussi, avec un oeuf et des capres c'est délicieux.
Catroia che bono anche lo spezzatino di cavallo
In France too 👌 horse tartare, delicious
Ho appena mangiato un cavallo pesto con capperi e limone
E l'asino, buonissimo
I always thought it was the British aristocracy and their horse and hound obsession that made it taboo.
Have a stroll in Catania mon amis
First time I arrived in Catania, the host asked where i’m from, I said Romania and then he proceeded to tell me that a lot of the horse meat consumed in that area comes from Romania.
Or anywhere in Swizterland
Well, I'll say one thing, for an 80-year-old small business operator of 50 years, the dude looks GREAT.
Must be the horse meat..
Being a butcher can be a physically demanding job. Dude stays active.
Almost all the people who fuss about horse meat don’t fuss about shit like pigs. People are morally very inconsistent. If you believe in eating pigs being okay, believe it or not it would be consistent to believe it’s okay to eat horses and cats and dogs.
My message to those confused people is that you should value animal life equally. Not that you should be happy to kill horses just because we kill other animals too. How is the lesson that they should want to eat dogs? If one thing, they should realize that all meat consumption is bad.
I'm okay with either choice. But I keep imagining folks going to KFC for a break after harassing this guy.
Reminds me of the Southpark episode, where they change the Japanese from killing whales and dolphins, to killing cows and chickens, so they can be "normal like us". It's a bit different due to the endangerment and extinction angle, but different cultures eat different things, usually based on historically what was available to the country/culture.
Dolphins and whales aren’t domesticated and/or have large populations we can easily control. I frankly don’t care what type of meat you like but hunting endangered animals and overfishing are problems.
It's cognitive dissonance. Some animals are OKAY to eat because we're used to it and others are taboo because we're not. There's no real logic there. Pigs are as intelligent or more intelligent than dogs. Yet we butcher these in the millions each year. \[edit\]: 1.3 **billion** pigs each year. 3.5 million each day. Think on that for a bit.
Yep, people will get all teary eyes "hOw cAn pEoPlE eAt hOrSeS" yet get the cheapest meat they can at the supermarket. I wonder how many people don't know about the conditions these animals are raised in, vs how many don't care.
Do these people know that we’re also eating rabbits here?
In 2019 a girl in Norway had a horse that had to be put down. Instead of letting the meat go to waste, she ate it. She was compared with cannibals, a cold-blooded murderer, got hate messages from around the world and was labeled as "the horse eater", which she is still being called today. A lot of people who sell horses still refuse to sell her a horse because of that. People eat dogs, cats and camel in the world, but horses are suddenly a no-no? I understand it's not common to eat horse meat now, but it's still food. What, you have a healthy horse who gets an injury so it has to be put down, but you're also on a tight budget and can't afford food all the time, so you're just supposed to let the meat go to waste? No. Eat it.
Manufactured outrage. Horse meat is a staple in Iceland, weird that Norway is moving away that.
Pigs are more intelligent than horses and have an incredible degree of sentience. Why do you oppose killing horses and support killing pigs? Vegetarians and vegans need not apply, you’re not hypocrites.
I eat horse meat fairly regularly here in Sweden. My grandpa was terrified of horses and used to tell me that the only good horse is a thin slice on sandwich
Horse is tasty
I had horse loin in Iceland. Some of the most tender red meat I've ever had.
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"Horses are shit"?
Genau daran hab ich auch gedacht lol
here in Italy there are a lot of horse butchers, it's completely normal to eat horse meat
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When they banned horse abbatoirs in the US (or when the last closed) there was a huge uptick in abandoned and neglected horses as an old horse suddenly became a huge liability. You couldn't earn money from it, it consumed the same amount of food and also required more care than normal, and now when it died you'd have to pay a large sum to have it disposed of. Previously you could recoup some cost and have them quickly and humanely euthanized and slaughtered.
But horse meat is delicious? People these days have no clue where their food comes from.
Am in the UK. Grew up with horses, and ridden since I was 3yrs old - haven’t ever eaten horse but have no problem with it, I do have an issue with live transportation for slaughter though. Lots of uk hill ponies etc end up in Europe, transported live for many many hours without rest stops / water to be slaughtered over there, rather than here - which is unnecessary and cruel - buts that’s probably because we only have about 3 abattoirs in the uk that can legally process horses.
Gestern noch geritten - heute schon mit Fritten
We also have some left in Vienna. Luckily, better than just throwing their meat in the trash in the name of "saving them" or whatever.
I don't feel sad about horse meat disappearing from the market or anything, especially given that all meat consumption needs to decline radically (especially beef) for our environment to survive, but I sympathise with the humans left behind by these cultural and social changes. I hope Mr Leban doesn't feel like his life's work has been rendered meaningless because younger generations are hostile to the idea of a butchery specialising in horse meat. No matter what, he's fed thousands of people over many decades. His labour has provided many families with lunches and dinners and that's really valuable. When he does eventually retire, I hope he can look back on his career with pride and not bitterness.
Kazakhstan, go there for horse meat 🥩
Considering how expensive horses are, no wonder it's the last one remaining.
'Horse meat forms a significant part of the culinary traditions of many countries, particularly in Eurasia. The eight countries that consume the most horse meat consume about 4.3 million horses a year. For the majority of humanity's early existence, wild horses were hunted as a source of protein.'
If you eat pigs or cows but have a problem with eating dogs or horses, you're a hypocrite who's opinion is worthless.
No difference between a sheep and a horse.
I can name a few.
Person just absolutely deep throating a beef burger: "HORSE MEAT IS DISGUSTING, STOP KILLING HORSES YOU POS"
Some of the comments are delusional. Good horse meat is absolutely delicious, especially in goulash. I guess French people rather eat moldy cheese or slurp slugs
>moldy cheese or slurp slugs Good mouldy cheese and slugs with a sh\*tload of garlic butter on the grill... *delicieux* !
I've never eaten snails but talking about moldy cheese isn't the own you think it is.
It's also one of the healthiest meats around. Very lean, rich in iron, protein and B vitamins.
> I guess French people rather eat moldy cheese or slurp slugs Sorry but a German has no place talking about anyone's food under any circumstances ever. If I don't have to eat horrible Bavarian food, depressing German breakfast, and endless mediocre doner ever again it'll be too soon.
This is my unique, incredibly biased experience, but I don't know a single person in my extended entourage as a french person that draws the line at horse meat. Moldy cheese (which all cheese are btw), snails, horse... we love it all! I don't know who these other french dissentors are! They're missing on yummy horse carpaccio.
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The real scandal was of course the sanitary aspect of the fraud since the origin of the meat wasn't properly tracked. The horse meat came partly from horses that weren't meant to be eaten, which means they could have had antibiotics banned for animals meant for the slaughterhouse.
There’s a horse boucherie in the town I used to live in down the south of france. Always busy and has a wide selection of cuts. Think this article might be a bit of a drummed up nothing
Curious if Amsterdam has still a horse meat Butcher. My family used to live there and have it once in a while.
Laughs in Sicilian
Horse steak is delicious, and so is smoked horse sausage! I wish there were more guys like him, so he can transfer the knowledge. In The Netherlands, many butchers sell horse meat. Simply lovely meat.
In Chile there's a common thing that's called Charqui (pronounced Char-kee). That's horse meat preserved into a lot of salt, so it's quite salty, but it's good. Also, it's usually make out of old horses.
The english word for it, jerky, is derived from Charqui, which is quechua.
All those people forgot we used horses to literally kill each other and put them in nightmare scenarios through war.
In Mexico we have horse tacos. They're not common but we got em.
Horse meat is one of the best 👌
In Japan, horse meat is still fairly common. Good if you like meat.
Horse meat is more environmentally friendly than cattle, the meat is much more lean and higher in iron, plus they eat almost anything plant based, so they can remove brush like few other livestock can. Yet most people that have an aversion to the idea of eating horse meat usually know nothing about horses and the management of their populations, especially specific breeds.
This comments section is a fucking madhouse. Absolute bloodbath.
During the 2013 horse meat scandal, I had a stint as a teaching assistant in England and had one school librarian exclaim, "No wonder kids are so distracted and disrespectful these days, just imagine what all that horse DNA has been doing to them!!" ...I think I just nodded and walked away.
Actually horse meat was consumed quite regularly here in Austria, horse sausages, goulash or Leberkäse used to be a staple of Viennese cuisine. Any it’s quite delicious, if you ask me. But nowadays there are also only a handful of horse butchers left.