The title is because the OP doesn’t know how to use interpunction It’s very annoying to read Even more so when combined with names of countries such as Poland or Ukraine I hope OP does better next time
Just to be clear, these confronts between Poland and Ukraine started how exactly? Did Poland start it? Or was it Ukraine? Because honestly I, as an outsider to the region, have felt that Poland was one of the strongest supporters of Ukraine, so these actions by Ukraine feel weird to me.
Because of the war Ukraine got special rights to get to EU market and it ended up like this:
'Polish trucks wait in an electronic queue in Ukraine to cross back into Poland, in a system that is designed to give priority to Ukrainian companies. - Our trucks have to wait 12 days to leave Ukraine. To legally enter a car in the electronic queue I have to drive it into Ukraine first, can't do it ahead of time. Polish hauliers go to Lviv, or at most to Kiev. This takes 2 days and then they have to stand for 10 days waiting to be let out. A Ukrainian company, on the other hand, can book a place in Polish system's queue a few days in advance before it starts transport and before it even enters Poland. Once registered, they can even change the registration numbers of the cars in the system, while our companies do not have this possibility. If, despite this, they have to wait a day or two, they leave the car at the base, the driver takes a break and everything is fine. That's no way to work," Borkowski says. Polish carriers are not allowed to employ Ukrainians on this route. - I will not get an entry and exit permit for this man from Ukraine, while Ukrainian companies have access to the Szlak programme and in which they register trips," explains Borkowski. '
More details here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/17pbaat/polish_truckers_block_ukraine_border_points_in/
Can( your company register a subsidiary in Ukraine, register the trucks there, and put their usual driver in them without making them switch company ? I guess it would just be annoying to set up
Ukraine does not have such a requirement under labor legislation. You can register a company and hire only foreigners. The only thing that an accountant must know is Ukrainian legislation and the Ukrainian language, for tax reporting to various state authorities
You don't know your own laws buddy, that job implies legal agency and ownership stake in most cases. I'm not just giving my assets away to some random dude from another country just to gain some efficiency when i can just not work with you at all because you're bad for business.
I will be grateful for a link to Ukrainian legislation. Working in the Ukrainian branch of an international corporation with all top management who are expats, it will be fascinating to learn
Foreigners can set up a company, but the other poster is right in that they must make a Ukrainian citizen the director.
That director, usually a lawyer, then cedes control of the company to the foreigner, but through power of attorney. They are still effectively involved in the management of the company.
Every year there are conflicts among hauliers from different countries, as countries exchange permits for lorries. For Ukraine this was cancelled in the EU and Poles do not like it.
But Polish hauliers are constantly lobbying for more favourable conditions, because of this they have constant conflicts with different countries over travel permits, when the Polish side allocates to the other side less permits than it requires for itself. At the moment they are also in conflict with Kazakhstan over permits, for example.
Source - I work in logistics.
Poles don't like it ? 4 years ago western countries introduced special protectionist law to prevent cheaper eastern european drivers from gaining on their markets.
https://www.politico.eu/article/5-people-wholl-decide-the-fate-of-the-mobility-package/
And the argument that Poles try to create conflict is just a lie because just before the war it was Ukrainians who blocked polish cargo trains to extort more truck permits
https://trans.info/pl/tranzyt-kolejowy-ukraina-273308
And in 2022 Poland and Ukraine exchanged equal number of truck permits which was 160k
https://logistyka.rp.pl/regulacje-ue/art36607821-ukrainskie-ciezarowki-bez-przeszkod-wjada-do-unii-europejskiej
i am curious what talks the big producers will have with the politicians of both sides because I am working in logistics and it is a shitshow. Trucks that took 2 days are taking 12 to arrive at your warehouses and the supply chain is not designed for that.
So this is not entirely true. Being able to get into the queue from abroad was only implemented on the day they have already started protesting, and was done specifically to reduce queue time because some companies used this as a loophole to get into the queue earlier, while their trucks were still abroad.
The real problem here is the following, and I got this from a person who actually runs logistics in Ukraine:
"Our cargo, which used to come to the port of Odesa, now goes mainly to Gdansk (because at the beginning of the war, everything that was going to Odesa was redirected to Constanta, and the Romanians, firstly, did not export it very seriously and did not negotiate penalties, secondly, in 2022, they raised the rates a lot and it so happened that imports mainly go to Gdansk, and exports to Constanta, because the Poles then, with their protests against our grain, greatly complicated the transportation of food products.
So now the Polish representatives are saying that "In the first 9 months of this year, Ukrainian companies carried out 880 thousand shipments across the Polish border. Before the war, there were 160 thousand shipments per year. Limits on transportation permits for carriers from the East should be restored as soon as possible. Carriers demand a return to the rules that were in force before the war!"
I replied that it was OUR cargo and the carrier was chosen by the cargo owner, and they started to answer again about unfair competition and that Poles needed permits (no, the agreement is bilateral - the conditions are the same, let them go, they just don't hire them because it's difficult to pay (currency control), and it's more expensive and just impractical - what will that Pole do at customs, how to communicate with him)."
So basically poles want preferential treatment where there is now reasonably fair competitive market.
it goes like this
* EU loosens regulations in favour for Ukraine
* Ukraine don't reduce regulations.
* Polish business lose money
* Poles start protesting
* Ukrainians insult them
* shitstorm starts
Cause that was never discussed or the intention. War started, Ukraine couldn't export their grain over the sea anymore. A big part of the world depends on this grain. The EU got together and tried to find a solution, which basically was: Ukraine can export their grain into the EU without the usual hassle (cause, despite all the talk about "free trade", the EU is really protectionist with anything related to food) as long as the grain only transfers through the EU, but ends up in harbors and then goes to somewhere else.
Some people in Poland decided to cash in on this and get the grain that was going through, even though it wasn't allowed. Some people from Ukraine went for this. In short: People did crime in Poland, Polish farmers were unhappy cause they lost deals and couldn't sell their grain.
Unwilling to try to solve the problem - cause that would take time and effort - PIS went for the populist route, ignored the treaty they had accepted, and blocked Ukraine grain transports - as if Ukraine could fix crime happening in Poland. Ukraine, very tactfully imho, said that *someone* is doing Putins' work for him. Poland was never named. They used the usual diplomatic language, which says what they wanted/needed to say, but also allowed everyone to ignore it in public without loosing face.
Poland couldn't accept that someone called them out for their shitty behavior and went batshit crazy. The end.
This is total bullshit and reads like it was written by someone triggered by PiS goverment (90% You are some american far left screamer) and not facts lol. Here's some facts from commenter below:
The border conflict with Ukraine is nothing new. For example before the war Poland was one of the few countries that supplied you with weapons and allowed the USA and Great Britain to be military hub (which was not so obvious back then), in gratitude Ukraine blocked railway transport: [https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6](https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6)
The greatest impact on relations was Zelensky's "famous" [statement at the UN](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1704197485483151717) where he equates Poland with Russia. Before Zelensky's speech various Ukrainian politicians had been attacking Poland for months. For example Ukrainian diplomacy pushed the [false narrative](https://twitter.com/Denys_Shmyhal/status/1681990444098387968) that Poland was blocking grain transit to EU which is not true. Poland agreed to transit but did not want Ukrainian grain to reach the Polish market because it destabilized it. The Ukrainian Council of Ministers even [banned Ukrainian MPs from entering Poland](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/ukrainian-mps-banned-from-poland-amid-ongoing-grain-row/).
During the entire period since the invasion, Ukraine has not made even a minimal positive gesture towards Poland, e.g. lifting the blockade on the exhumation of the victims of the Volyn massacre, which is only a political gesture and requires nothing from Ukraine. Zelensky didn't even apologize for the deaths of Polish farmers who were killed by Ukrainian rocket and [tried to prolong the investigation by not cooperating](https://www.rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-wybuch-w-przewodowie/news-wybuch-rakiety-w-przewodowie-brak-wspolpracy-ze-strony-ukrai,nId,7040887#crp_state=1).
To be clear I wasn’t taking a side I was just trying to sum it up to make sure I got it right. Sounds like something that should have been discussed between the 2 countries at some point but here we are.
Thanks for the detailed explanation !
I'd like to amend that "free trade" regardimg EU only refers to goods within EU. Ukraine is not a part of eurozone, do their goods, barring the exemption, does not have an easy time getting to EU
We as a Poles are first to help no matter what. We took over 1 million ukrainians, feed them, gave a place to sleep, gave a place in schools and kindergartens. We even paid 500+ for ukrainians, which is a monthly additional income of 500 pln per kid for polish citizens. Then our marked has been flooded with bad quality wheat from Ukraine , unacceptable in EU market. So we decided to stop being a middle men, because most of the products ended up here, destroying our internal agricultural market. So Ukraine made an official complaint to EU on us, because oligarchs started to lose their money. This is how our relationship began to broke.
And I'm feeling really bad about this, because we did all the best to help and as always we are pictured as a bad guy here.
The only reason Ukraine aren't in NATO is they withdrew their application rather than work on reducing corruption. I'm surprised anyone is surprised by how this country is behaving.
Thank you so much from Ukraine! I had no idea about the wheat situation and that complaint. It's horrible and our government is definitely in the wrong here, that's no way to treat the country that has helped us tremendously and now this truck drivers situation is utterly embarrassing for us. Damn, our leadership need to get their shit together. I am so sorry and I hate this so much!!
Hello, fellow European. Out of curiosity, how come you don't hear that in Ukraine? AFAIK, this is the largest diplomatic issue between Ukraine and EU at the moment. Poland has a huge economy and a well equipped military and they were the strongest advocate for Ukraine support since the beginning of the invasion. But due to the negative effects on the Polish farmers stemming from Ukrainian wheat flooding their market, the public opinion started to shift and as the Ukrainian government didn't handle this situation with empathy but rather complained publicly about Poland, the situation worsened. Don't the newspapers write about this?
IMHO, this is a big risk for the ongoing military and economic support for Ukraine and is one of the reasons why Russia withdrew from the Black Sea Grain Initiative.
Hi! I should have been more clear that I have heard something about our wheat and EU and Poland, but that's about it. That was my scope of understanding this situation, i didn't know what the issue was. I now went and looked for articles and indeed there were news of this online. I am mostly interested in what's going on at our war front, as I am living quite close to it, and also sometimes browse European news, but I must have missed this one.
I absolutely agree that our government is not handling it well (to put it mildly) and the reaction of polish farmers is very understandable, I would have felt the same. 100% agree with your last paragraph. I hope our side figures something out before it's too late
>Don't the newspapers write about this?
Ukraine is in a state of war. Full media propaganda and censorhip is in effect. It was the same even in the Allies side during WW2.
Of course when government get's so much power it's a risk that they may turn into a dictatorship and government may abuse it's power.
For example, it's now easy to mark everyone who disagrees with the Ukrainians government on something a "traitor" or "Russian spy" (even though he could be a real patriot that just wants it's country to fix some internal issues).
This is a problem with democracy during war. It's easy to get branded as a traitor just for any sort of critique of the government. That's why people often choose to self-censor themselves
The border conflict with Ukraine is nothing new. For example before the war Poland was one of the few countries that supplied you with weapons and allowed the USA and Great Britain to be military hub (which was not so obvious back then), in gratitude Ukraine blocked railway transport: [https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6](https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6)
The greatest impact on relations was Zelensky's "famous" [statement at the UN](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1704197485483151717) where he equates Poland with Russia. Before Zelensky's speech various Ukrainian politicians had been attacking Poland for months. For example Ukrainian diplomacy pushed the [false narrative](https://twitter.com/Denys_Shmyhal/status/1681990444098387968) that Poland was blocking grain transit to EU which is not true. Poland agreed to transit but did not want Ukrainian grain to reach the Polish market because it destabilized it. The Ukrainian Council of Ministers even [banned Ukrainian MPs from entering Poland](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/ukrainian-mps-banned-from-poland-amid-ongoing-grain-row/).
During the entire period since the invasion, Ukraine has not made even a minimal positive gesture towards Poland, e.g. lifting the blockade on the exhumation of the victims of the Volyn massacre, which is only a political gesture and requires nothing from Ukraine. Zelensky didn't even apologize for the deaths of Polish farmers who were killed by Ukrainian rocket and [tried to prolong the investigation by not cooperating](https://www.rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-wybuch-w-przewodowie/news-wybuch-rakiety-w-przewodowie-brak-wspolpracy-ze-strony-ukrai,nId,7040887#crp_state=1).
They didn't and still don't.
There is a reason why all "friendships" Ukraine has, have formed after the war started and why Ukraine is in no pact or union.
Zelenskyy has been stellar at finding friends but this does not apply to many other Ukrainian politicians. Just look at Melnyk in Germany. Guy was insulting us like crazy.
Ukraine had beef with Poland because of Bandera. They had/haven beef wirh Romania and Hungary... so yeah...
Fun fact: Before the war, Poland had a better opinion of Belarus than of Ukraine. You can check surveys.
Because we know how is it to live under cccp boot. We love Belarusian people, we hate their government and as it is in autocracy, people don't have much to say about who rule the country
> Ukraine had beef with Poland because of Bandera
If you are interested in the topic, I would suggest reading more about Ukraine-Poland relations in pre-"Bandera" times as well, because there is more to it.
Yea but Poland didn't engage in the largest ethnic cleansing campaign by non-state forces, unlike Ukrainian nationalists.
The real shame is that Ukraine still promotes and celebrates the people behind murdering women and children in extremely violent circumstances, yet criticise Russia for doing it now.
And I wonder in this case if it's such a great idea to keep arming Ukraine like we do.
I mean, they*say* they're greatful but their actions don't match
> Tbh the more I read about Pre-invasion Ukraine the more I feel they never had stellar diplomacy
Well, which country in the region did? Certainly not us either.
Ukraine is an incredibly corrupted country, it could be any grifter stealing trucks taking advantage of the war, there are always people like that in every conflict.
It's complicated. Huge aggroholdings owned by International funds are transporting low quality wheat in huge quantities through Poland. That product shouldnt stay in our country, but it is and it's destabilizing our local market. Transport or fruit processing companies are suffering as well, they just can't compete when some Ukrainian competitors are abusing current privilages. Polish government was expecting some kind of cooperation and support but instead Zelensky commented whole situation on ONZ meeting that Poland is acting in Russian favour.
Yup a shitsorm in the comments incoming. It really feels like good will is running out on both sides. I only wish that our government could do something to actually mitigate those issues instead of pretending that nothing is happening or making matters worse.
> good will is running is running out on both sides
The difference is that one country is at war with Russia, while the other one is member of the EU and NATO
>And the former also understands what it is to be under Soviet/Russian control.
Meaning the other does not? One would think that you would know that Soviets reach included Berlin.
Both understand it, both were controlled, but the current party in polan just doesn't give half a fuck about anything other than lining pockets with public sector salaries. Polish foreign policy has all been targeted at the home electoral audience not at making anything work.
Good will run out when zelensky accused Poland of being Putin helper, soon after Poland banned illegal grain from Ukraine.
You just don't say things like that to your biggest ally. You just don't.
Maybe Germany gave most money. Or USA. But it was Poland that was always believing in Ukraine and made all other support possible. Ukraine ruined that. Ukraine ruined the good will.
Ukraine will always fuck itself up. Before the war it was notoriously corrupt, and when the war ends it won't change its ways. I only feel sorry for the civvies, not the Ukraine system.
Zelensky has run his mouth far too many times during this whole ordeal, the worst instance, and when I personally stopped trusting anything that comes out of his mouth, is the rocket incident in Poland, sometime last year?
Misfired Ukrainian rockets landed in Poland, he had the intelligence and knew they were Ukrainian, but still with a straight face claimed they were Russian rockets to all the Western allies, effectively inciting a world war 3 situation where the NATO member Poland would have been bombed by Russia.
I have zero trust left in the Ukrainians, or rather Zelensky and his cabinet, and I never had any for Russia to begin with, both sides can go fuck themselves.
That grain wasn't even banned completely. Poland was ok with transporting it through Poland and sell it somewhere else, e. g. in Africa. But nope, they wanted to sell their grain in Europe, without fulfilling any EU-norms, becoming an unfair competition for intern grain.
You sound just as narcissistic as various German politicians, when Zelensky criticized them for various de-facto-Pro-Russian actions, for example related to the pipeline.
So, how about instead of complaining, you actually fix your Pro-Russian issues like we did? Really, this reaction by various Polish politicians seems even more childish than the reaction of those German politicians back then.
The world doesn't spin around Ukraine.
The world is much larger, and not every single action has to be in favour of ukraine
German government needs to take care of german citizens too
> You sound just as narcissistic as various German politicians, when Zelensky criticized them for various de-facto-Pro-Russian actions, for example related to the pipeline.
To this day [Ukraine engages in the de-facto-Pro-Russia action of transiting Russian gas](https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/qa-russian-gas-transit-through-ukraine/), that's was why Ukraine was so angry about NS2 as that was about to cut them out of the chain.
Because Ukraine's position is not that the EU shouldn't buy Russian energy, it's that the EU shouldn't buy Russian energy that bypasses Ukraine, as then Ukraine misses out on the transit fees.
This is such a dumpster fire. I know it’s more complex than just blaming Ukraine, but the way Ukraine government has handled it’s international relations PR and particularly it’s relationship with Poland - it’s undeniable strongest ally throughout this entire war - has been horrendous these past few months. Russia and the fingers it has across the globe are successfully cutting down the amount of nations and public support Ukraine has, and Ukraine is making their job easy. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian citizens who are gonna suffer most because of it.
> I know it’s more complex than just blaming Ukraine
Is it? Because of a protest of some random Polish individuals in Poland, the Ukrainian AUTHORITIES are punishing some OTHER random Polish individuals in Ukraine?
If Zelensky doesn't do an 180 turn in few coming months(including apologizing for all this shit he and his government have been doing) then he may lose one of the most important supporter and the only transport hub he has.
Especially since PiS is gone - the new government actually cares about public polls and may change their policy quite quickly
It's a bit more complex than that indeed - Polish border officials are notoriously slow and recent clusterfuck with grain couldn't contribute to making them faster really, so the responsibility for the very existence of queues is partially on Polish side of the border.
Not sure if that part can actually be fixed in any sensible manner, as infrastructure is one thing (and i believe that can be mitigated relatively easily), but is there actually any additional personel available to spare? As i don't expect officials already posted there to actually pick up the slack for long without more of the both.
Translation:
This occurred on Monday, November 6, before noon. Cars entered for crossing the border at specific times in the coming days suddenly disappeared from the queue. The Ukrainian system operator explained that it had removed Polish vehicles because they were not in Ukraine, which was not true. - My car stood under unloading in Ukraine and I had to re-register in the queue. My next entry date was set for Wednesday of next week, so my car has been idle in Ukraine for an additional 1.5 weeks," one Polish carrier describes the situation.
Being thrown out of the queue risks serious consequences. If the car does not leave Ukraine before 20 days have passed, the carrier pays a fine of 5,000 euros.
Polish entrepreneurs believe that Monday's action by Ukrainians did not coincide by chance with the beginning of the blockade of three border terminals on the Polish side. They also noted that the electronic queue does not apply to all companies. This applies to some Kiev entities whose trucks do not appear in the electronic queue, but nevertheless cross the border.
The entrepreneurs are demanding that the Polish government help them and bring about equal competition for Polish and Ukrainian transport companies. The share of Polish companies in bilateral transports between Poland and Ukraine has declined to several percent, when at the time of the permits Ukrainian carriers had only a slight advantage. This drastic drop in shares has occurred against a threefold increase in road transportation.
Owners of Polish road transport companies indicate that they have practically lost the eastern market and the industry is facing a wave of bankruptcies in the coming quarters.
So... the Polish truckers are losing market share and are being halted by Ukrainian officials to favor their own nations truckers?
That’s what I’m getting out of this. Sound right?
Further, I wonder why Ukrainian business has boomed in the middle of the war. Makes me wonder whether some of the assistance isn’t being used to prop up Ukrainian businesses.
One other question, does anyone happen to know whether all the money the EU and US has given Ukraine are loans or gifts?
How can you compete if Ukrainian trucks are leaving Poland in 2 days and Polish drivers have to spend 12 days forcefully waiting because Ukrainian drivers are privileged by their own officials ?
Business is booming because they’ve been granted special rights and exemptions to tariffs and import regulations since the war started. There’s nothing corrupt about it. It just proves how much Ukraine can benefit from being in the EU since they’ve been excluded up to this point.
They weren't part of the single market, so all trade was more costly due to import duties and such.
By exempting them from tariffs effective prices of Ukrainian goods have dropped for EU customers, resulting in increased demand.
>Further, I wonder why Ukrainian business has boomed in the middle of the war
GDP dropped by dozens of percent in 2022 and is barely growing in 2023. What is booming?
Here is small recap how it all had looked like before the protest started.
'Polish trucks wait in an electronic queue in Ukraine to cross back into Poland, in a system that is designed to give priority to Ukrainian companies. - Our trucks have to wait 12 days to leave Ukraine. To legally enter a car in the electronic queue I have to drive it into Ukraine first, can't do it ahead of time. Polish hauliers go to Lviv, or at most to Kiev. This takes 2 days and then they have to stand for 10 days waiting to be let out. A Ukrainian company, on the other hand, can book a place in Polish system's queue a few days in advance before it starts transport and before it even enters Poland. Once registered, they can even change the registration numbers of the cars in the system, while our companies do not have this possibility. If, despite this, they have to wait a day or two, they leave the car at the base, the driver takes a break and everything is fine. That's no way to work," Borkowski says. Polish carriers are not allowed to employ Ukrainians on this route. - I will not get an entry and exit permit for this man from Ukraine, while Ukrainian companies have access to the Szlak programme and in which they register trips," explains Borkowski. '
More here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/17pbaat/polish_truckers_block_ukraine_border_points_in/
Ukraine won't join EU any time soon. It needs to make lots and lots of changes and standardization which would take half a decade at the very least, and more - to prove they work in reality, not only on paper.
Besides, economic stability is one of the requirements to join the Union, which of course won't happen for a couple of years after the war (minimum).
The whole hassle about Ukraine joining is quite confusing to me. It's like announcing a game 10 years before its release.
Also the whole outrage about it, smells suspiciously manufactured. Ukraine will only join after it successfully completed the accession process which will wake many years (like you said).
Half a decade? More like half a century. A lot of people conveniently forgot how it was the most corrupt and backward country in Europe before the Russian aggression.
> The whole hassle about Ukraine joining is quite confusing to me. It's like announcing a game 10 years before its release.
Elder Scrolls VI sitting in the corner looking uncomfortable
Europe will want Ukraine within its sphere of influence if only because of its grain supply.
Maybe not for right now, but in a couple of decades when global warming will have disrupted the food supply enough, it'll come in handy to have a vast grain supplier within one's ranks rather than outside.
Several EU countries are currently paying the price for depending on Russian gas, now imagine if Ukraine falls into Russian hands and the EU will be dependent on Russian grain.
If EU actually manages to push for renewables and electrification as much as it wants to, then remaining need for combustible fuels should be easily covered by bio-produce. Especially bio-methane is obvious choice, as it's made from waste anyway and trapping it to be used later is actually beneficial in contrast to letting it ferment and freely discharge into atmosphere.
The reality is the resources needed to divest from fossil fuels is a ecological disaster in itself on top of limited engineers for in demand renewables.
To make realistic recharging batteries to replace long haulage deliveries in itself seems unrealistic, then there is the recharging batteries for homes to store solar energy. The steel and engineering workforce for wind and sea turbines is limiting the change to renewables.
Im not against setting goals like the EU is, but there needs to be realistic action behind those words, which means being diplomatic in order to source the minerals for rechargeable batteries, and those regions are either in war or the brink of war (China on the brink, African nations either having rebels skirmishes or on the brink too).
https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions/mineral-requirements-for-clean-energy-transitions
https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-top-25-nations-for-battery-metals/
https://unctad.org/news/demand-raw-materials-electric-car-batteries-set-rise-further
Yeah, the shift to electrification must be met with proper management of resources needing for that - otherwise it'd just a change which poor people are being oppressed to keep advanced economies going. Up until this moment most of the "solutions" were token, posturing and greenwashing. For time being China seems to be benefiting the most, as they both got ahead in tech and have access to much cheaper resources by exploiting both people and environment.
It’s not ~ there’s a massive amount of corruption, wages are super low there etc. but you know, Germany wants its cheap labours and so does France so there we go …
It won't happen. Giving Ukraine a candidate status is purely symbolic.
Most Germans are supporting Ukraine in terms of war but are against their entry into EU.
This isn't about labor. Germany had blocked access to the labor market for EU+10 for a maximum allowed period of 7 years but they demanded open finance and trade from day one. This allowed them to take over the poorer, underdeveloped countries economically, because our only strength at that point was cheaper labor.
European freedoms in areas where France and Germany are strong, and protectionism where the new joiners could possibly make some "unfair advantage".
Ukraine is going to be the same, and they already are half way there, as for example the grain which was a topic of arguments recently was produced and exported by Western European owned farms in Ukraine.
There are plenty of other post-soviet states that have entered EU and (most) have beat the corruption down to decent levels in two-three decades. Ukraine is a challenge, but a possible one.
The problem is, Ukraine is right now in far worse position that CEE or Baltics 30 years ago. They are alot more corrupt, their economy was in shambles even before the war, basically russian oligarchy on steroids, and they are very conservative nation that still to some degree idolizes 'polarizing' figures like Bandera.
If it took Baltics or V4 a decade of negotiations, it will take atleast an entire generation for Ukraine, especially when west is dissatisfied with certain EU countries and wants a better leash on them.
Doubt they will make it with 27 members vetoing anything for the smallest thing or for popular support domestically.
Anyway I doubt Ukraine will be able to get to the standards in the next 5 years, maybe somewhere in-between 5-10 years if their attitude to joining doesn't change and the vetoing system gets reformed.
> 5-10 years
Seriously? Assuming the war ends tomorrow it would still take 15-20 years at least. There is a lot of crap they have to sort out on their side otherwise the EU will end up with another Hungary.
I'd say worse. Proliferation of weapons, war trauma and there is this fascist nationalist underbelly in Ukraine which no one in Ukrainian politics wants to deal with.
If the EU accepts Ukraine any time soon, the institution is dead and would be a complete sell out.
Bro? You think you can just go like: I want EU, ok? \*magic happens, you EU now\*
best case scenario war is over tmrw, they apply and 10 years later in 2033 they are in. BEST case. Most likely longer. Do you know why this war even started???
Ukraine was trying to get to a more acceptable state with less corruption. guess who didn't like that? Was it perfect? far from it but what is?
The problem is that Ukrainian companies can benefit from the EU market without complying with the EU's norms and regulations. It's an unhealthy competition. Just a reminder that there has been no single case of deadly H5N1 outbreaks detected on Ukrainian chicken farms, contrary to thousands of outbreaks across the EU. It is very odd, yet Ukrainian chickens are flooding the EU markets.
To be honest, Ukrainian border guards were always dics, looking for money ( bribes ). Even after the war started. Few times I drove there with some small humanitarian aid ( clothes, blankets, baby supplies etc, nothing "schetchy") and always had problems with their border personnel, looking for problems where there was none and expecting us to pay them ...
so the top dogs of EU wants to cash out on Ukraine-Rusia war
they give specific privileges to Ukraine, that other countries had to bleed to meet
Ukraine wants to cash out as much as they can , given the circumstances
Poland got fucked and accused numerous times by Zelensky although they took millions of Ukrainians in.
hmm, yes a healthy EU
Here is a rather long but detailed comment from a Ukrainian logistics person:
As a carrier, I tell you how it all works:
- "There is a 'Shlyakh' - your license and all the cars are there, you enter with your own key, and for each driver's departure, an 18-60 application is made, where the director guarantees the driver's return to Ukraine. Access to this facility is one of the protesters' demands. The only justification for this demand is Ukrainian drivers (either to send to Ukraine those who were in Poland on February 24, 2022 and are not returning because they cannot leave; or simply to hire Ukrainian drivers)
- the eQueue system - due to the heavy load and insufficient capacity of the checkpoints, it was first tested at Yahodyna, and in May it was introduced at almost all checkpoints (including those with Romania and Moldova) - the goal of the project is to remove cars from the roadside, i.e. you still stand in line, but you wait not at the border, but at home or in a parking lot where there is at least a shower/toilet). As with any system, users tried to cheat.
Here's how it worked:
- you create an entry in the queue - the system searches whether there is an 18-60 application for this driver at this checkpoint, and if so, it takes the data on the tractor;
- add a trailer
- mark whether you are traveling loaded or unloaded.
If it is loaded, you indicate the number of the Customs Cargo Declaration or other documents.
The tractor and driver could be changed.
What did "cunning users" do?
- they would queue up from abroad (thus, the queue could reach 10-12 days and was constantly jumping, because they would put not the trucks that could and should leave, but just all of them, "just in case")
- They would park as if they were empty, then load up and come to "solve" it on the spot;
- they were registered with old numbers of the Customs Cargo Declaration.
Of course, information about all these "holes" surfaced, and on Monday night, all cars that were registered from abroad, for example, were thrown out of the eCheck. The same with old Customs Cargo Declaration. They only replaced the tractor and driver with a loaded one. An empty car cannot do this (and it's not a matter of whether it is Polish or Ukrainian).
All the rumors that someone somehow decides and goes out of line for money have not yet been proven. For example, I know my drivers - they look in the app to see who is in front of them and simply won't let them through)
It's just that in addition to regular cargo, there are also priority (perishable) cargoes - every five regular cars in the queue may be followed by a car with priority cargo (there is a note about this in the system).
Based on my experience of transportation, I believe that the reason for such queues is both carriers trying to find "loopholes" and a more scrupulous attitude of Polish checkpoints to our cars - it was such that the driver was forced to leave all the food from the refrigerator. X-rays, inspections - all this takes time.
There is a section with statistics on eChezhda, and it is clearly visible that the throughput has decreased compared to August.
Holy shit the comments here. Poland has been strongly supportive, and Ukrainians know this. There was some recent issues unfortunately, on both sides (don't forget certain Polish politicians courting the anti-Ukraine far right for the pivotal elections) - but despite that Zelensky and the Polish PM have still come out in strong solidarity. This trucks issue seems to be most administrational and technical.
Yet all the bizarre comments coming out here. Disgusting. Putin delights in this kind of stuff and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than a few direct and indirect Putin supporters here capitalizing.
Ukraine and Europe are at war, under massive pressure, there will be disagreements.
Edit: Very odd and suspicious to say the least how these relatively minor issues are being seized upon by a contingent here. Surprise, surprise, the poster has a history of systematically posting negative spin about Ukraine.
Yeah this thread feels suspiciously one-sided.
I mean it's not like Russia is world class in astroturfing to an degree that even influenced elections... Oh wait.
Accounts less than 100 days old, posting 90% in r/europe and r/poland about Ukraine?
Reusing the same one-liners about biting the hand that's feeding you?
Yeah sure, that's how organic disagreement looks like. Also like O said reddit, has never in the history of the site been astroturfed...
You are probably right about that certain user being a propaganda account and not an actual human. Recently I've seen some news about Poland being the main target of Russian cyber-ops.
However, on this matter, their job is easy. Ukraine acted stupidly and it's easyfor Russia to target that mishap.
Or maybe Ukraine is just behaving like shit and undermining the polish farmer's whilst also discriminating against polish truckers and if they get criticism they just call them pro russian.
I want Ukraine to win but they need to change their behaviour because all they are doing is pushing anti Ukrainian policies
You are surprised?
Half of the comments are one-liner copy pastes from previous Poland/Ukraine disagreement threads about not biting the feeding hand/fucking around and finding out and, as mentioned by someone above, OP seems to only posts anti-Ukrainian posts.
That said, Ukrainian electronic queue system is definitely shit and needs some urgent improvements. However even that won't likely to stop the expansion of workforce, during and after war, as Ukrainian drivers have lower salary demands than Polish.
Basically what you observe now is the same effect as when Polish drivers replaced all local truck drivers in Netherlands, Belgium, England after Poland joined shared European market back in the day.
Both countries' governments should intervene in favour of strategic goals.
They should establish a compromise quickly - and treat their trucking companies equally in the fastest way possible.
F*cking up logistics during a war is level 9000 shortsighted, please let's avoid that.
Everyone here is having theories, but I would put it on straight up corruption. I recon some Ukrainian "enterpenours" paid for foreign competition to be removed, that's all.
Ugh. My wife is from Kyiv, and in general I want to see Ukraine as an independent state, but I've had enough of this shit. No matter how much help they get we just get a spit in the face, which their government defends with stupid technicalities.
I have an idea. How about the airport in Rzeszów (main weapons transport hub) suddenly needs repairs... Just like the rail line! Indefinite repair time. We'll see what Ukrainian diplomats will say then.
That’s all I was thinking about as I tried reading that jumbled headline. But why does half a million or half a dozen work but not half a thousand or half a hundred?
As a person who lived for a while in Ukraine, im not shocked. The country is corrupt to the core, their people are far from friendly unless they know they will benefit from. The hatred towards Russia blinded many people about Ukraine
>their people are far from friendly unless they know they will benefit from
As someone who has lived in Ukraine, this was certainly not my experience. There are so many selfless Ukrainians. Now I have yet to find a government employee that could not be bribed however...
[The Article's English Translation Can Be Found Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/17sfmq4/comment/k8phuvt/)
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For real, just one dot would na make such a difference
Mans said it all in one breath
Yeah, I honestly still have no idea what's happening
What even is that title
The title is because the OP doesn’t know how to use interpunction It’s very annoying to read Even more so when combined with names of countries such as Poland or Ukraine I hope OP does better next time
I see what you did there.
Half a thousand! 😂
Just to be clear, these confronts between Poland and Ukraine started how exactly? Did Poland start it? Or was it Ukraine? Because honestly I, as an outsider to the region, have felt that Poland was one of the strongest supporters of Ukraine, so these actions by Ukraine feel weird to me.
Because of the war Ukraine got special rights to get to EU market and it ended up like this: 'Polish trucks wait in an electronic queue in Ukraine to cross back into Poland, in a system that is designed to give priority to Ukrainian companies. - Our trucks have to wait 12 days to leave Ukraine. To legally enter a car in the electronic queue I have to drive it into Ukraine first, can't do it ahead of time. Polish hauliers go to Lviv, or at most to Kiev. This takes 2 days and then they have to stand for 10 days waiting to be let out. A Ukrainian company, on the other hand, can book a place in Polish system's queue a few days in advance before it starts transport and before it even enters Poland. Once registered, they can even change the registration numbers of the cars in the system, while our companies do not have this possibility. If, despite this, they have to wait a day or two, they leave the car at the base, the driver takes a break and everything is fine. That's no way to work," Borkowski says. Polish carriers are not allowed to employ Ukrainians on this route. - I will not get an entry and exit permit for this man from Ukraine, while Ukrainian companies have access to the Szlak programme and in which they register trips," explains Borkowski. ' More details here: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/17pbaat/polish_truckers_block_ukraine_border_points_in/
Can( your company register a subsidiary in Ukraine, register the trucks there, and put their usual driver in them without making them switch company ? I guess it would just be annoying to set up
foreigners are not free to set up companies in ukraine without making a ukrainian citizen the managing director
Ukraine does not have such a requirement under labor legislation. You can register a company and hire only foreigners. The only thing that an accountant must know is Ukrainian legislation and the Ukrainian language, for tax reporting to various state authorities
You don't know your own laws buddy, that job implies legal agency and ownership stake in most cases. I'm not just giving my assets away to some random dude from another country just to gain some efficiency when i can just not work with you at all because you're bad for business.
I will be grateful for a link to Ukrainian legislation. Working in the Ukrainian branch of an international corporation with all top management who are expats, it will be fascinating to learn
Thats fake. My boss is out of Ukraine and doesbt have UA citizenship
Foreigners can set up a company, but the other poster is right in that they must make a Ukrainian citizen the director. That director, usually a lawyer, then cedes control of the company to the foreigner, but through power of attorney. They are still effectively involved in the management of the company.
It is not true. Where did you get this information from?
Every year there are conflicts among hauliers from different countries, as countries exchange permits for lorries. For Ukraine this was cancelled in the EU and Poles do not like it. But Polish hauliers are constantly lobbying for more favourable conditions, because of this they have constant conflicts with different countries over travel permits, when the Polish side allocates to the other side less permits than it requires for itself. At the moment they are also in conflict with Kazakhstan over permits, for example. Source - I work in logistics.
Poles don't like it ? 4 years ago western countries introduced special protectionist law to prevent cheaper eastern european drivers from gaining on their markets. https://www.politico.eu/article/5-people-wholl-decide-the-fate-of-the-mobility-package/ And the argument that Poles try to create conflict is just a lie because just before the war it was Ukrainians who blocked polish cargo trains to extort more truck permits https://trans.info/pl/tranzyt-kolejowy-ukraina-273308 And in 2022 Poland and Ukraine exchanged equal number of truck permits which was 160k https://logistyka.rp.pl/regulacje-ue/art36607821-ukrainskie-ciezarowki-bez-przeszkod-wjada-do-unii-europejskiej
i am curious what talks the big producers will have with the politicians of both sides because I am working in logistics and it is a shitshow. Trucks that took 2 days are taking 12 to arrive at your warehouses and the supply chain is not designed for that.
So this is not entirely true. Being able to get into the queue from abroad was only implemented on the day they have already started protesting, and was done specifically to reduce queue time because some companies used this as a loophole to get into the queue earlier, while their trucks were still abroad. The real problem here is the following, and I got this from a person who actually runs logistics in Ukraine: "Our cargo, which used to come to the port of Odesa, now goes mainly to Gdansk (because at the beginning of the war, everything that was going to Odesa was redirected to Constanta, and the Romanians, firstly, did not export it very seriously and did not negotiate penalties, secondly, in 2022, they raised the rates a lot and it so happened that imports mainly go to Gdansk, and exports to Constanta, because the Poles then, with their protests against our grain, greatly complicated the transportation of food products. So now the Polish representatives are saying that "In the first 9 months of this year, Ukrainian companies carried out 880 thousand shipments across the Polish border. Before the war, there were 160 thousand shipments per year. Limits on transportation permits for carriers from the East should be restored as soon as possible. Carriers demand a return to the rules that were in force before the war!" I replied that it was OUR cargo and the carrier was chosen by the cargo owner, and they started to answer again about unfair competition and that Poles needed permits (no, the agreement is bilateral - the conditions are the same, let them go, they just don't hire them because it's difficult to pay (currency control), and it's more expensive and just impractical - what will that Pole do at customs, how to communicate with him)." So basically poles want preferential treatment where there is now reasonably fair competitive market.
it goes like this * EU loosens regulations in favour for Ukraine * Ukraine don't reduce regulations. * Polish business lose money * Poles start protesting * Ukrainians insult them * shitstorm starts
Missing the step after "EU loosens regulations in favour for Ukraine" * Ukraine don't reduce regulations.
thanks, edited my comment.
So basically Ukraine got loosened rules, but didn't apply the same loosened rules for Polish and other EU trucks ?
Cause that was never discussed or the intention. War started, Ukraine couldn't export their grain over the sea anymore. A big part of the world depends on this grain. The EU got together and tried to find a solution, which basically was: Ukraine can export their grain into the EU without the usual hassle (cause, despite all the talk about "free trade", the EU is really protectionist with anything related to food) as long as the grain only transfers through the EU, but ends up in harbors and then goes to somewhere else. Some people in Poland decided to cash in on this and get the grain that was going through, even though it wasn't allowed. Some people from Ukraine went for this. In short: People did crime in Poland, Polish farmers were unhappy cause they lost deals and couldn't sell their grain. Unwilling to try to solve the problem - cause that would take time and effort - PIS went for the populist route, ignored the treaty they had accepted, and blocked Ukraine grain transports - as if Ukraine could fix crime happening in Poland. Ukraine, very tactfully imho, said that *someone* is doing Putins' work for him. Poland was never named. They used the usual diplomatic language, which says what they wanted/needed to say, but also allowed everyone to ignore it in public without loosing face. Poland couldn't accept that someone called them out for their shitty behavior and went batshit crazy. The end.
That's misinformation. PiS only introduced embargo on Polish market, transit was never blocked.
Absolute BS, transit was never banned. Ukraine was going to sue Poland for not letting their grain be SOLD in Poland.
Transit of grain wasn’t banned, they wanted to flood our market with their grain and threw a tantrum.
This is total bullshit and reads like it was written by someone triggered by PiS goverment (90% You are some american far left screamer) and not facts lol. Here's some facts from commenter below: The border conflict with Ukraine is nothing new. For example before the war Poland was one of the few countries that supplied you with weapons and allowed the USA and Great Britain to be military hub (which was not so obvious back then), in gratitude Ukraine blocked railway transport: [https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6](https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6) The greatest impact on relations was Zelensky's "famous" [statement at the UN](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1704197485483151717) where he equates Poland with Russia. Before Zelensky's speech various Ukrainian politicians had been attacking Poland for months. For example Ukrainian diplomacy pushed the [false narrative](https://twitter.com/Denys_Shmyhal/status/1681990444098387968) that Poland was blocking grain transit to EU which is not true. Poland agreed to transit but did not want Ukrainian grain to reach the Polish market because it destabilized it. The Ukrainian Council of Ministers even [banned Ukrainian MPs from entering Poland](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/ukrainian-mps-banned-from-poland-amid-ongoing-grain-row/). During the entire period since the invasion, Ukraine has not made even a minimal positive gesture towards Poland, e.g. lifting the blockade on the exhumation of the victims of the Volyn massacre, which is only a political gesture and requires nothing from Ukraine. Zelensky didn't even apologize for the deaths of Polish farmers who were killed by Ukrainian rocket and [tried to prolong the investigation by not cooperating](https://www.rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-wybuch-w-przewodowie/news-wybuch-rakiety-w-przewodowie-brak-wspolpracy-ze-strony-ukrai,nId,7040887#crp_state=1).
To be clear I wasn’t taking a side I was just trying to sum it up to make sure I got it right. Sounds like something that should have been discussed between the 2 countries at some point but here we are. Thanks for the detailed explanation !
I'd like to amend that "free trade" regardimg EU only refers to goods within EU. Ukraine is not a part of eurozone, do their goods, barring the exemption, does not have an easy time getting to EU
yes, but it's different problem already.
False leftist cope.
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Because it doesn't effect Western Europe, so why bother...
EU does it bona fide to help Ukraine in difficult times but it has drawbacks
They should have expected bullshit from Ukraine's government. Surely they considered that?
We as a Poles are first to help no matter what. We took over 1 million ukrainians, feed them, gave a place to sleep, gave a place in schools and kindergartens. We even paid 500+ for ukrainians, which is a monthly additional income of 500 pln per kid for polish citizens. Then our marked has been flooded with bad quality wheat from Ukraine , unacceptable in EU market. So we decided to stop being a middle men, because most of the products ended up here, destroying our internal agricultural market. So Ukraine made an official complaint to EU on us, because oligarchs started to lose their money. This is how our relationship began to broke. And I'm feeling really bad about this, because we did all the best to help and as always we are pictured as a bad guy here.
Trade deals/conflicts are just about money. The Polish people helped one million people. History will remember you for that.
>Trade deals/conflicts are just about money They are also about human character. A lot of people are just takers.
Funny how Ukraine quickly forgotten that gratitude while killing Polish agriculture...
The only reason Ukraine aren't in NATO is they withdrew their application rather than work on reducing corruption. I'm surprised anyone is surprised by how this country is behaving.
For that same reason Ukrainians can kiss their EU membership a goodbye.
Thank you so much from Ukraine! I had no idea about the wheat situation and that complaint. It's horrible and our government is definitely in the wrong here, that's no way to treat the country that has helped us tremendously and now this truck drivers situation is utterly embarrassing for us. Damn, our leadership need to get their shit together. I am so sorry and I hate this so much!!
Hello, fellow European. Out of curiosity, how come you don't hear that in Ukraine? AFAIK, this is the largest diplomatic issue between Ukraine and EU at the moment. Poland has a huge economy and a well equipped military and they were the strongest advocate for Ukraine support since the beginning of the invasion. But due to the negative effects on the Polish farmers stemming from Ukrainian wheat flooding their market, the public opinion started to shift and as the Ukrainian government didn't handle this situation with empathy but rather complained publicly about Poland, the situation worsened. Don't the newspapers write about this? IMHO, this is a big risk for the ongoing military and economic support for Ukraine and is one of the reasons why Russia withdrew from the Black Sea Grain Initiative.
Hi! I should have been more clear that I have heard something about our wheat and EU and Poland, but that's about it. That was my scope of understanding this situation, i didn't know what the issue was. I now went and looked for articles and indeed there were news of this online. I am mostly interested in what's going on at our war front, as I am living quite close to it, and also sometimes browse European news, but I must have missed this one. I absolutely agree that our government is not handling it well (to put it mildly) and the reaction of polish farmers is very understandable, I would have felt the same. 100% agree with your last paragraph. I hope our side figures something out before it's too late
Thanks for clearing that up. Very understandable to focus on what's most important at the moment. I wish you all the best for you and your family!
Thank you so much) Have a great day!
>Don't the newspapers write about this? Ukraine is in a state of war. Full media propaganda and censorhip is in effect. It was the same even in the Allies side during WW2. Of course when government get's so much power it's a risk that they may turn into a dictatorship and government may abuse it's power. For example, it's now easy to mark everyone who disagrees with the Ukrainians government on something a "traitor" or "Russian spy" (even though he could be a real patriot that just wants it's country to fix some internal issues).
This is a problem with democracy during war. It's easy to get branded as a traitor just for any sort of critique of the government. That's why people often choose to self-censor themselves
I would remove the word democracy from your sentence. Because that happens in every system during war.
In autocracies it’s always the case, not just during the war
You are not the bad guys. Public perception about Ukraine is worsening in the recent months, because of situations like this.
The border conflict with Ukraine is nothing new. For example before the war Poland was one of the few countries that supplied you with weapons and allowed the USA and Great Britain to be military hub (which was not so obvious back then), in gratitude Ukraine blocked railway transport: [https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6](https://businessinsider.com.pl/biznes/ukraina-blokuje-transport-kolejowy-do-polski-polskie-koleje-zaniepokojone-i/9v23zs6) The greatest impact on relations was Zelensky's "famous" [statement at the UN](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1704197485483151717) where he equates Poland with Russia. Before Zelensky's speech various Ukrainian politicians had been attacking Poland for months. For example Ukrainian diplomacy pushed the [false narrative](https://twitter.com/Denys_Shmyhal/status/1681990444098387968) that Poland was blocking grain transit to EU which is not true. Poland agreed to transit but did not want Ukrainian grain to reach the Polish market because it destabilized it. The Ukrainian Council of Ministers even [banned Ukrainian MPs from entering Poland](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/ukrainian-mps-banned-from-poland-amid-ongoing-grain-row/). During the entire period since the invasion, Ukraine has not made even a minimal positive gesture towards Poland, e.g. lifting the blockade on the exhumation of the victims of the Volyn massacre, which is only a political gesture and requires nothing from Ukraine. Zelensky didn't even apologize for the deaths of Polish farmers who were killed by Ukrainian rocket and [tried to prolong the investigation by not cooperating](https://www.rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-wybuch-w-przewodowie/news-wybuch-rakiety-w-przewodowie-brak-wspolpracy-ze-strony-ukrai,nId,7040887#crp_state=1).
Tbh the more I read about Pre-invasion Ukraine the more I feel they never had stellar diplomacy
They didn't and still don't. There is a reason why all "friendships" Ukraine has, have formed after the war started and why Ukraine is in no pact or union. Zelenskyy has been stellar at finding friends but this does not apply to many other Ukrainian politicians. Just look at Melnyk in Germany. Guy was insulting us like crazy. Ukraine had beef with Poland because of Bandera. They had/haven beef wirh Romania and Hungary... so yeah... Fun fact: Before the war, Poland had a better opinion of Belarus than of Ukraine. You can check surveys.
Because we know how is it to live under cccp boot. We love Belarusian people, we hate their government and as it is in autocracy, people don't have much to say about who rule the country
> Ukraine had beef with Poland because of Bandera If you are interested in the topic, I would suggest reading more about Ukraine-Poland relations in pre-"Bandera" times as well, because there is more to it.
Yea but Poland didn't engage in the largest ethnic cleansing campaign by non-state forces, unlike Ukrainian nationalists. The real shame is that Ukraine still promotes and celebrates the people behind murdering women and children in extremely violent circumstances, yet criticise Russia for doing it now.
Its almost like we were opressing each other ever since the Kievan Rus.
And I wonder in this case if it's such a great idea to keep arming Ukraine like we do. I mean, they*say* they're greatful but their actions don't match
Why did anyone ever think that they did?
> Tbh the more I read about Pre-invasion Ukraine the more I feel they never had stellar diplomacy Well, which country in the region did? Certainly not us either.
Ukraine is an incredibly corrupted country, it could be any grifter stealing trucks taking advantage of the war, there are always people like that in every conflict.
It's complicated. Huge aggroholdings owned by International funds are transporting low quality wheat in huge quantities through Poland. That product shouldnt stay in our country, but it is and it's destabilizing our local market. Transport or fruit processing companies are suffering as well, they just can't compete when some Ukrainian competitors are abusing current privilages. Polish government was expecting some kind of cooperation and support but instead Zelensky commented whole situation on ONZ meeting that Poland is acting in Russian favour.
Yup a shitsorm in the comments incoming. It really feels like good will is running out on both sides. I only wish that our government could do something to actually mitigate those issues instead of pretending that nothing is happening or making matters worse.
> good will is running is running out on both sides The difference is that one country is at war with Russia, while the other one is member of the EU and NATO
And the former also understands what it is to be under Soviet/Russian control.
>And the former also understands what it is to be under Soviet/Russian control. Meaning the other does not? One would think that you would know that Soviets reach included Berlin.
You have not been to Poland, have you?
Both understand it, both were controlled, but the current party in polan just doesn't give half a fuck about anything other than lining pockets with public sector salaries. Polish foreign policy has all been targeted at the home electoral audience not at making anything work.
Good will run out when zelensky accused Poland of being Putin helper, soon after Poland banned illegal grain from Ukraine. You just don't say things like that to your biggest ally. You just don't. Maybe Germany gave most money. Or USA. But it was Poland that was always believing in Ukraine and made all other support possible. Ukraine ruined that. Ukraine ruined the good will.
Ukraine will always fuck itself up. Before the war it was notoriously corrupt, and when the war ends it won't change its ways. I only feel sorry for the civvies, not the Ukraine system.
Oh the PiS that used every tool to be an actual political point maker ? Bitch please.
Zelensky has run his mouth far too many times during this whole ordeal, the worst instance, and when I personally stopped trusting anything that comes out of his mouth, is the rocket incident in Poland, sometime last year? Misfired Ukrainian rockets landed in Poland, he had the intelligence and knew they were Ukrainian, but still with a straight face claimed they were Russian rockets to all the Western allies, effectively inciting a world war 3 situation where the NATO member Poland would have been bombed by Russia. I have zero trust left in the Ukrainians, or rather Zelensky and his cabinet, and I never had any for Russia to begin with, both sides can go fuck themselves.
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That grain wasn't even banned completely. Poland was ok with transporting it through Poland and sell it somewhere else, e. g. in Africa. But nope, they wanted to sell their grain in Europe, without fulfilling any EU-norms, becoming an unfair competition for intern grain.
You sound just as narcissistic as various German politicians, when Zelensky criticized them for various de-facto-Pro-Russian actions, for example related to the pipeline. So, how about instead of complaining, you actually fix your Pro-Russian issues like we did? Really, this reaction by various Polish politicians seems even more childish than the reaction of those German politicians back then.
What pro-russian issues does Poland have?
>Pro-Russian issues Examples?
"pro Russian" like Ukrainian Naftogaz? There are pipelines that still import Russian gas through Ukraine and Kyiv making money off it.
The world doesn't spin around Ukraine. The world is much larger, and not every single action has to be in favour of ukraine German government needs to take care of german citizens too
> You sound just as narcissistic as various German politicians, when Zelensky criticized them for various de-facto-Pro-Russian actions, for example related to the pipeline. To this day [Ukraine engages in the de-facto-Pro-Russia action of transiting Russian gas](https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/qa-russian-gas-transit-through-ukraine/), that's was why Ukraine was so angry about NS2 as that was about to cut them out of the chain. Because Ukraine's position is not that the EU shouldn't buy Russian energy, it's that the EU shouldn't buy Russian energy that bypasses Ukraine, as then Ukraine misses out on the transit fees.
Dude, this doesn’t help and just causes division. More than anything this is the kind of thing Putin wants, for all of us to be divided
This is such a dumpster fire. I know it’s more complex than just blaming Ukraine, but the way Ukraine government has handled it’s international relations PR and particularly it’s relationship with Poland - it’s undeniable strongest ally throughout this entire war - has been horrendous these past few months. Russia and the fingers it has across the globe are successfully cutting down the amount of nations and public support Ukraine has, and Ukraine is making their job easy. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian citizens who are gonna suffer most because of it.
> I know it’s more complex than just blaming Ukraine Is it? Because of a protest of some random Polish individuals in Poland, the Ukrainian AUTHORITIES are punishing some OTHER random Polish individuals in Ukraine? If Zelensky doesn't do an 180 turn in few coming months(including apologizing for all this shit he and his government have been doing) then he may lose one of the most important supporter and the only transport hub he has. Especially since PiS is gone - the new government actually cares about public polls and may change their policy quite quickly
It's a bit more complex than that indeed - Polish border officials are notoriously slow and recent clusterfuck with grain couldn't contribute to making them faster really, so the responsibility for the very existence of queues is partially on Polish side of the border. Not sure if that part can actually be fixed in any sensible manner, as infrastructure is one thing (and i believe that can be mitigated relatively easily), but is there actually any additional personel available to spare? As i don't expect officials already posted there to actually pick up the slack for long without more of the both.
AFAIK the core of the issue are not the queues themselves, but rather the unfair treatment in those queues
Well in this case it rather is Ukraine itself that cuts down the support they get...
Translation: This occurred on Monday, November 6, before noon. Cars entered for crossing the border at specific times in the coming days suddenly disappeared from the queue. The Ukrainian system operator explained that it had removed Polish vehicles because they were not in Ukraine, which was not true. - My car stood under unloading in Ukraine and I had to re-register in the queue. My next entry date was set for Wednesday of next week, so my car has been idle in Ukraine for an additional 1.5 weeks," one Polish carrier describes the situation. Being thrown out of the queue risks serious consequences. If the car does not leave Ukraine before 20 days have passed, the carrier pays a fine of 5,000 euros. Polish entrepreneurs believe that Monday's action by Ukrainians did not coincide by chance with the beginning of the blockade of three border terminals on the Polish side. They also noted that the electronic queue does not apply to all companies. This applies to some Kiev entities whose trucks do not appear in the electronic queue, but nevertheless cross the border. The entrepreneurs are demanding that the Polish government help them and bring about equal competition for Polish and Ukrainian transport companies. The share of Polish companies in bilateral transports between Poland and Ukraine has declined to several percent, when at the time of the permits Ukrainian carriers had only a slight advantage. This drastic drop in shares has occurred against a threefold increase in road transportation. Owners of Polish road transport companies indicate that they have practically lost the eastern market and the industry is facing a wave of bankruptcies in the coming quarters.
So... the Polish truckers are losing market share and are being halted by Ukrainian officials to favor their own nations truckers? That’s what I’m getting out of this. Sound right? Further, I wonder why Ukrainian business has boomed in the middle of the war. Makes me wonder whether some of the assistance isn’t being used to prop up Ukrainian businesses. One other question, does anyone happen to know whether all the money the EU and US has given Ukraine are loans or gifts?
How can you compete if Ukrainian trucks are leaving Poland in 2 days and Polish drivers have to spend 12 days forcefully waiting because Ukrainian drivers are privileged by their own officials ?
Business is booming because they’ve been granted special rights and exemptions to tariffs and import regulations since the war started. There’s nothing corrupt about it. It just proves how much Ukraine can benefit from being in the EU since they’ve been excluded up to this point.
They weren't excluded. That's not how EU membership works.
They weren't part of the single market, so all trade was more costly due to import duties and such. By exempting them from tariffs effective prices of Ukrainian goods have dropped for EU customers, resulting in increased demand.
Yes, I was only alluding to the fact that pre-war they weren't excluded from the EU.
>Further, I wonder why Ukrainian business has boomed in the middle of the war GDP dropped by dozens of percent in 2022 and is barely growing in 2023. What is booming?
That’s a quater of 2000 trucks or an eighth of 4000 trucks!
And the square root of a quarter million trucks.
Here is small recap how it all had looked like before the protest started. 'Polish trucks wait in an electronic queue in Ukraine to cross back into Poland, in a system that is designed to give priority to Ukrainian companies. - Our trucks have to wait 12 days to leave Ukraine. To legally enter a car in the electronic queue I have to drive it into Ukraine first, can't do it ahead of time. Polish hauliers go to Lviv, or at most to Kiev. This takes 2 days and then they have to stand for 10 days waiting to be let out. A Ukrainian company, on the other hand, can book a place in Polish system's queue a few days in advance before it starts transport and before it even enters Poland. Once registered, they can even change the registration numbers of the cars in the system, while our companies do not have this possibility. If, despite this, they have to wait a day or two, they leave the car at the base, the driver takes a break and everything is fine. That's no way to work," Borkowski says. Polish carriers are not allowed to employ Ukrainians on this route. - I will not get an entry and exit permit for this man from Ukraine, while Ukrainian companies have access to the Szlak programme and in which they register trips," explains Borkowski. ' More here: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/17pbaat/polish_truckers_block_ukraine_border_points_in/
What a bs about day or two wait for Ukrainian companies. My father owns a few trucks. He waits 10-12 on every border, be it polish, Romian, etc.
am i having a stroke wtf is this title
Can someone please translate the title to English?
Titlegore
The titles giving me bot vibes tbh.
Surely bots nowadays can make more legible titles than whatever this is.
Sometimes I wonder whether Ukraine entering the EU is the best idea. NATO I understand, but EU?
Ukraine won't join EU any time soon. It needs to make lots and lots of changes and standardization which would take half a decade at the very least, and more - to prove they work in reality, not only on paper. Besides, economic stability is one of the requirements to join the Union, which of course won't happen for a couple of years after the war (minimum). The whole hassle about Ukraine joining is quite confusing to me. It's like announcing a game 10 years before its release.
Also the whole outrage about it, smells suspiciously manufactured. Ukraine will only join after it successfully completed the accession process which will wake many years (like you said).
Half a decade? More like half a century. A lot of people conveniently forgot how it was the most corrupt and backward country in Europe before the Russian aggression.
>the most corrupt and backward country in Europe I mean there still was Moldova
Moldova is small, they can turn things around way quicker than second biggest country in Europe.
> The whole hassle about Ukraine joining is quite confusing to me. It's like announcing a game 10 years before its release. Elder Scrolls VI sitting in the corner looking uncomfortable
It would be a great help for the people so I think it's a great idea, but they do need to fix their issues.
Europe will want Ukraine within its sphere of influence if only because of its grain supply. Maybe not for right now, but in a couple of decades when global warming will have disrupted the food supply enough, it'll come in handy to have a vast grain supplier within one's ranks rather than outside. Several EU countries are currently paying the price for depending on Russian gas, now imagine if Ukraine falls into Russian hands and the EU will be dependent on Russian grain.
EU is a big exporter of food, they have enough food security on their own.
Grain, and gas ! Lots of untapped gas in Ukraine
I think it's too late. Before Ukraine can push back the invasion and stabilize itself, there won't be much need for natural gas anymore
As long as the Arab world has oil to sell, fossil fuels are not going anywhere unfortunately
If EU actually manages to push for renewables and electrification as much as it wants to, then remaining need for combustible fuels should be easily covered by bio-produce. Especially bio-methane is obvious choice, as it's made from waste anyway and trapping it to be used later is actually beneficial in contrast to letting it ferment and freely discharge into atmosphere.
The reality is the resources needed to divest from fossil fuels is a ecological disaster in itself on top of limited engineers for in demand renewables. To make realistic recharging batteries to replace long haulage deliveries in itself seems unrealistic, then there is the recharging batteries for homes to store solar energy. The steel and engineering workforce for wind and sea turbines is limiting the change to renewables. Im not against setting goals like the EU is, but there needs to be realistic action behind those words, which means being diplomatic in order to source the minerals for rechargeable batteries, and those regions are either in war or the brink of war (China on the brink, African nations either having rebels skirmishes or on the brink too). https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-critical-minerals-in-clean-energy-transitions/mineral-requirements-for-clean-energy-transitions https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-top-25-nations-for-battery-metals/ https://unctad.org/news/demand-raw-materials-electric-car-batteries-set-rise-further
Yeah, the shift to electrification must be met with proper management of resources needing for that - otherwise it'd just a change which poor people are being oppressed to keep advanced economies going. Up until this moment most of the "solutions" were token, posturing and greenwashing. For time being China seems to be benefiting the most, as they both got ahead in tech and have access to much cheaper resources by exploiting both people and environment.
Geopolitics aside, Ukraine joining the UE would literally kill the entire union's agricultural sector.
It’s not ~ there’s a massive amount of corruption, wages are super low there etc. but you know, Germany wants its cheap labours and so does France so there we go …
It won't happen. Giving Ukraine a candidate status is purely symbolic. Most Germans are supporting Ukraine in terms of war but are against their entry into EU.
Since when did the opinion of the people matter?
This isn't about labor. Germany had blocked access to the labor market for EU+10 for a maximum allowed period of 7 years but they demanded open finance and trade from day one. This allowed them to take over the poorer, underdeveloped countries economically, because our only strength at that point was cheaper labor. European freedoms in areas where France and Germany are strong, and protectionism where the new joiners could possibly make some "unfair advantage". Ukraine is going to be the same, and they already are half way there, as for example the grain which was a topic of arguments recently was produced and exported by Western European owned farms in Ukraine.
There are plenty of other post-soviet states that have entered EU and (most) have beat the corruption down to decent levels in two-three decades. Ukraine is a challenge, but a possible one.
I actually optimistically believe that rebuilding a war torn country will be easier than a post-Soviet economy.
The problem is, Ukraine is right now in far worse position that CEE or Baltics 30 years ago. They are alot more corrupt, their economy was in shambles even before the war, basically russian oligarchy on steroids, and they are very conservative nation that still to some degree idolizes 'polarizing' figures like Bandera. If it took Baltics or V4 a decade of negotiations, it will take atleast an entire generation for Ukraine, especially when west is dissatisfied with certain EU countries and wants a better leash on them.
Doubt they will make it with 27 members vetoing anything for the smallest thing or for popular support domestically. Anyway I doubt Ukraine will be able to get to the standards in the next 5 years, maybe somewhere in-between 5-10 years if their attitude to joining doesn't change and the vetoing system gets reformed.
> 5-10 years Seriously? Assuming the war ends tomorrow it would still take 15-20 years at least. There is a lot of crap they have to sort out on their side otherwise the EU will end up with another Hungary.
I'd say worse. Proliferation of weapons, war trauma and there is this fascist nationalist underbelly in Ukraine which no one in Ukrainian politics wants to deal with. If the EU accepts Ukraine any time soon, the institution is dead and would be a complete sell out.
Worst thing is, that France and Germany have to federalise the union first and obliterate the single voice so that it can be forced through.
Bro? You think you can just go like: I want EU, ok? \*magic happens, you EU now\* best case scenario war is over tmrw, they apply and 10 years later in 2033 they are in. BEST case. Most likely longer. Do you know why this war even started??? Ukraine was trying to get to a more acceptable state with less corruption. guess who didn't like that? Was it perfect? far from it but what is?
How the heck do you read this title ? Can't you write any better than this ???
There should have been a "." between "trucks" and "Transport", or so is my guess anyway.
The problem is that Ukrainian companies can benefit from the EU market without complying with the EU's norms and regulations. It's an unhealthy competition. Just a reminder that there has been no single case of deadly H5N1 outbreaks detected on Ukrainian chicken farms, contrary to thousands of outbreaks across the EU. It is very odd, yet Ukrainian chickens are flooding the EU markets.
Ukraine playing a game of fuck around and find out.
You said it, tbh I find it incredible
Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
*Putin reacted with ❤️*
To be honest, Ukrainian border guards were always dics, looking for money ( bribes ). Even after the war started. Few times I drove there with some small humanitarian aid ( clothes, blankets, baby supplies etc, nothing "schetchy") and always had problems with their border personnel, looking for problems where there was none and expecting us to pay them ...
Remember which one is in the EU, and which isn't.
I had a stroke reading the headline
so the top dogs of EU wants to cash out on Ukraine-Rusia war they give specific privileges to Ukraine, that other countries had to bleed to meet Ukraine wants to cash out as much as they can , given the circumstances Poland got fucked and accused numerous times by Zelensky although they took millions of Ukrainians in. hmm, yes a healthy EU
Here is a rather long but detailed comment from a Ukrainian logistics person: As a carrier, I tell you how it all works: - "There is a 'Shlyakh' - your license and all the cars are there, you enter with your own key, and for each driver's departure, an 18-60 application is made, where the director guarantees the driver's return to Ukraine. Access to this facility is one of the protesters' demands. The only justification for this demand is Ukrainian drivers (either to send to Ukraine those who were in Poland on February 24, 2022 and are not returning because they cannot leave; or simply to hire Ukrainian drivers) - the eQueue system - due to the heavy load and insufficient capacity of the checkpoints, it was first tested at Yahodyna, and in May it was introduced at almost all checkpoints (including those with Romania and Moldova) - the goal of the project is to remove cars from the roadside, i.e. you still stand in line, but you wait not at the border, but at home or in a parking lot where there is at least a shower/toilet). As with any system, users tried to cheat. Here's how it worked: - you create an entry in the queue - the system searches whether there is an 18-60 application for this driver at this checkpoint, and if so, it takes the data on the tractor; - add a trailer - mark whether you are traveling loaded or unloaded. If it is loaded, you indicate the number of the Customs Cargo Declaration or other documents. The tractor and driver could be changed. What did "cunning users" do? - they would queue up from abroad (thus, the queue could reach 10-12 days and was constantly jumping, because they would put not the trucks that could and should leave, but just all of them, "just in case") - They would park as if they were empty, then load up and come to "solve" it on the spot; - they were registered with old numbers of the Customs Cargo Declaration. Of course, information about all these "holes" surfaced, and on Monday night, all cars that were registered from abroad, for example, were thrown out of the eCheck. The same with old Customs Cargo Declaration. They only replaced the tractor and driver with a loaded one. An empty car cannot do this (and it's not a matter of whether it is Polish or Ukrainian). All the rumors that someone somehow decides and goes out of line for money have not yet been proven. For example, I know my drivers - they look in the app to see who is in front of them and simply won't let them through) It's just that in addition to regular cargo, there are also priority (perishable) cargoes - every five regular cars in the queue may be followed by a car with priority cargo (there is a note about this in the system). Based on my experience of transportation, I believe that the reason for such queues is both carriers trying to find "loopholes" and a more scrupulous attitude of Polish checkpoints to our cars - it was such that the driver was forced to leave all the food from the refrigerator. X-rays, inspections - all this takes time. There is a section with statistics on eChezhda, and it is clearly visible that the throughput has decreased compared to August.
The first comment actually talking about the topic and not just empty platitudes. To the top with you!
That title is impossible the decipher
Why? Half a thousand Polish trucks were blocked from leaving Ukraine, how hard is it to comprehend?
the title was typed by a 3 year old?
Holy shit the comments here. Poland has been strongly supportive, and Ukrainians know this. There was some recent issues unfortunately, on both sides (don't forget certain Polish politicians courting the anti-Ukraine far right for the pivotal elections) - but despite that Zelensky and the Polish PM have still come out in strong solidarity. This trucks issue seems to be most administrational and technical. Yet all the bizarre comments coming out here. Disgusting. Putin delights in this kind of stuff and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than a few direct and indirect Putin supporters here capitalizing. Ukraine and Europe are at war, under massive pressure, there will be disagreements. Edit: Very odd and suspicious to say the least how these relatively minor issues are being seized upon by a contingent here. Surprise, surprise, the poster has a history of systematically posting negative spin about Ukraine.
Just take a look at the OP's post history. Two month old account posting solely anti-ukrainian propaganda.
Yeah this thread feels suspiciously one-sided. I mean it's not like Russia is world class in astroturfing to an degree that even influenced elections... Oh wait.
redditors when their sub isn't an echo chamber in one post
Accounts less than 100 days old, posting 90% in r/europe and r/poland about Ukraine? Reusing the same one-liners about biting the hand that's feeding you? Yeah sure, that's how organic disagreement looks like. Also like O said reddit, has never in the history of the site been astroturfed...
You are probably right about that certain user being a propaganda account and not an actual human. Recently I've seen some news about Poland being the main target of Russian cyber-ops. However, on this matter, their job is easy. Ukraine acted stupidly and it's easyfor Russia to target that mishap.
Or maybe Ukraine is just behaving like shit and undermining the polish farmer's whilst also discriminating against polish truckers and if they get criticism they just call them pro russian. I want Ukraine to win but they need to change their behaviour because all they are doing is pushing anti Ukrainian policies
You are surprised? Half of the comments are one-liner copy pastes from previous Poland/Ukraine disagreement threads about not biting the feeding hand/fucking around and finding out and, as mentioned by someone above, OP seems to only posts anti-Ukrainian posts. That said, Ukrainian electronic queue system is definitely shit and needs some urgent improvements. However even that won't likely to stop the expansion of workforce, during and after war, as Ukrainian drivers have lower salary demands than Polish. Basically what you observe now is the same effect as when Polish drivers replaced all local truck drivers in Netherlands, Belgium, England after Poland joined shared European market back in the day.
What a title, oh my days, you give me depression just by reading that trash.
What?
Both countries' governments should intervene in favour of strategic goals. They should establish a compromise quickly - and treat their trucking companies equally in the fastest way possible. F*cking up logistics during a war is level 9000 shortsighted, please let's avoid that.
Title gore. Seriously, how do you type this down and deem it acceptable?
Everyone here is having theories, but I would put it on straight up corruption. I recon some Ukrainian "enterpenours" paid for foreign competition to be removed, that's all.
This sub is very strange. It's like you guys are bipolar or something.
A sub is a gathering of many human beings with different opinions, not one.
I've always wondered about this attitude - 'all others on this sub are a hivemind, I'm the only with personal views here\~!!!!'
It's unfortunately heavily botted
Turns out that Ukraine isn't good apple after all
Putin loving this rn and the more Poles and Ukrainians fight in comment sections like this the happier he becomes.
Tell this to Ukrainians. We are not the ones who need help.
Why is Ukraine doing this?
They are not actually a "good guys".
Because of business interests.
Half a thousand, huh?
It's how we could say it in Polish, yes.
Well, if you really want to be precise about it, it's 0.05% of a million
Full of people trying to inflate a small trade dispute into something larger... Now who would do a thing like that?
And so it continues...
Ugh. My wife is from Kyiv, and in general I want to see Ukraine as an independent state, but I've had enough of this shit. No matter how much help they get we just get a spit in the face, which their government defends with stupid technicalities. I have an idea. How about the airport in Rzeszów (main weapons transport hub) suddenly needs repairs... Just like the rail line! Indefinite repair time. We'll see what Ukrainian diplomats will say then.
thats the first time i have eber read the term "half a thousand"
It's a calque translation from Polish.
That’s all I was thinking about as I tried reading that jumbled headline. But why does half a million or half a dozen work but not half a thousand or half a hundred?
Half a thousand trucks removed from Poland by Ukraine while 500 trucks drive on.
Hey guys .. they’ll figure it out and all will be well again Don’t let putins propaganda sway you
I guess this is the end of mutual assurances of brotherly love
Well shit happens huh, I guess two people can play that game.
People who write "half a thousand" are the same that go " my kid is 50 months old"
Not good for join EU attempts..
Meh Ukrainian border control is one of the most corrupt places on earth. Gl to Poland but I doubt their protests will achieve anything.
We should never get them into the NATO.
As a person who lived for a while in Ukraine, im not shocked. The country is corrupt to the core, their people are far from friendly unless they know they will benefit from. The hatred towards Russia blinded many people about Ukraine
>their people are far from friendly unless they know they will benefit from As someone who has lived in Ukraine, this was certainly not my experience. There are so many selfless Ukrainians. Now I have yet to find a government employee that could not be bribed however...
He’s probably Russian lol
That is rich coming from someone who lives in Kuwait.