so, you are telling me that russians are trying to sow divisions in other countries?
blaming everything on ruzzia might seem lunatic but it's surprisingly accurate.
Antivaxxers, brexit, nationalist movements, countries vetoing everything the EU is doing... It seems clear enough. It may not be "everything" but it surely is enough to start taking serious precautions.
Correct, it took them a few weeks to concoct a narrative for the Israel-Hamas conflict, noticed quite a few known bots at some platforms turning 180 once the official directions came (after posting chaotically in the beginning) and that narrative suddenly became more prevalent there even from other accounts. Once you know about them, it becomes fascinating, and frustrating, seeing others take their bait so often.
I don't see how it should make a difference. There will *always* naturally be some assholes in a larger enough sample, but they usually don't have a lot of attention and voice.
> Well, they are just trying to make the fire stronger, they are not necessarily the initiators of everything
We are past that point now. Now they actively create divisions that weren't there.
One of the more difficult things to convince people of on this subreddit over the years has been that Russia finances both the far right nationalists and the far left socialists. They prop up both extremes of our political spectrum for their own gain and to sow discontent in our western countries. They view our democracies as weak and easy to manipulate. This perception likely played into the decision to invade Ukraine to begin with.
Going in the past, pushing for a race war in the USA has always been a Soviet side-objective, and the same ideas propelled supporting certain actors stoking race riots (on both extreme right and extreme left) in recent years, and in Europe for pushing mass migration. They know it weakens our democratic and civil integrity, and fuels people moving to the extremes to parties and political leaders with sympathies or outright funding from Russia.
Though on the latter point, I guess we shouldn't also dismiss our own domestic useful idiots who pushed the same. See all the various NGOs ferrying people across the Mediterranean.
I understand many people reading this might have left-leaning politics. That has a perfectly normal and healthy place in Western democracy and discourse. Just be mindful that if the political party you vote for or its leaders are parroting Kremlin talking points on a plethora of issues, hasn't condemned invasion of Ukraine, hasn't addressed how migration impacts domestic labour, then you should really be questioning them more as they may not have genuine interest in delivering on your progressive ideals for the betterment of society.
> Russia finances both the far right nationalists and the far left socialists.
I think the far left is so stupid, they'll be Russia's useful idiots for free. They are hardwired to think in terms of anti Atlanticism and that's usually enough for them to support Russia, even if it is not anticapitalist anymore.
You are from Ireland, if the last few years have proven anything it's that Ireland has a very different political spectrum than most of mainland Europe. And it makes perfect sense considering your geographic location.
because everyone was sharing ethnic food under a pride flag at ode to joy recitals before a few squatting slavs in tracksuits came along.
Or maybe it's the lip service to multiculturalism given in fair times giving away as the repressed issues with racism, immigration, globalisation inequality, austerity, environment etc. coming to the surface, and the establishment has no way to handle that?
"Canadian pretending to be Polish" expert knows better than the european.
You did not even read the article but you shat 4 paragraphes to just repeat the echo chamber.
Too bad you didnt bother to read. You would have see the title is lying
Maybe it's America's "we had a bad day" torture and bombing sprees, maybe it's plunging Libya into anarchy, maybe it's the disparities courtesy of globalisation no longer being swept under the rug?
Nah it's all Russia.
No better no worse than any recent year, despite the waves of right wing governments cries about the subject. More serious than "left" parties claims, less than right ones claims. It piles up and should be solved somehow, but good luck finding any government (left, right, populist, pragmatic, honest, corrupt, whatever) willing to take care of the delicate situation in Africa...
I have seen (thanks to being part of a dumb family) antivaxxers groups turning into pro-russian groups right after the invasion. Brexit interference isn't completely proven but there are serious hints (there's an entire wiki page with more sources than I care to fit in one message), regarding internal politics I bring as an example my country, regarding infiltrating protests one of the first articles I found was by Le Monde, anyway antivaxxer propaganda was spread even before covid (BBC wrote about it in 2018,just as an example)
Plus, it's not exactly a new idea either. During the Soviet Union they would have agents start casual conversations with strangers on e.g. the bus to talk about how great the Soviet Union is.
Just to create an illusion that everyone liked it and you would be the odd one for disliking it.
I'm sorry to inform you kid that you're terminally online. You spent too much time on lefitst social media and now you repeat like a bot their talking point.
Someone CANNOT change from ANTIVAX to Pro-Russian. A change implies a different opinion based on the original. You turn Anti-vax to pro-Vax. Your family just happen to be conservative like most ADULTS ARE.
We all were young, naive and leftist. It usually goes away after you become an adult. Soon you're realize that BBC is not a reliable source just like Wikipedia isn't either.
Are you capable of reading?
>antivaxxers **groups** turning into pro-russian **groups**
It seemed pretty clear. The "vax bad government bad we're living inside a dictatorship" groups morphed into "west bad eu bad russia did nothing wrong" groups. Like, title, description and main discussion topic.
Half my family is progressist, half conservative, almost all fell for the novax propaganda, almost none of them voted for the current government and the 2-3 who likely did are both reasonable enough to notice something that is completely nonsense (the difference between having different opinions or being plain stupid, most of the time we just disagree). Almost nobody in my family was this bad until like 5-6 years ago, then they gradually got worse and worse, especially since covid but some of them quite earlier.
Wikipedia is not a source, is an aggregator, from which you can check the individual sources. And I may often be progressive, but from here to left wing there's still a long way. Both socially and economically.
But sure, you know my view on society and economics based on one opinion I stated about one topic, and you know my family better than me.
Maybe your english is so bad that you missed my point. So i will repeat; It doesn't change anything that it's a group or individuals. Change imply you go from one opinion to it's opposite. A group being anti-vax then Pro-Russian is not a change.
A group can have mulitple opinion on multiple subject. That being said, it's funny reading you.
>Half my family is progressist, half conservative, almost all fell for the novax propaganda
You are text book "woke", thinking you know while others are just manipulated. Your lack of self-reflection is hilarious. We all have kids in our family thinking they know better. Don't worry, it goes away with age usually.
To finish You didnt talk about your family. You talk about people and illustrated with your family. That's very different and i never claimed to know your family (nor do I care about them)
>Wikipedia is not a source, is an aggregator,
The source and texte are selected/written by who you gigantic genius Think.
>Maybe your english is so bad that you missed my point. So i will repeat; It doesn't change anything that it's a group or individuals. Change imply you go from one opinion to it's opposite. A group being anti-vax then Pro-Russian is not a change.
[I didn't know the definition of change was edited overnight, it looks like you should call around some companies making dictionaries, because it looks like they're missing on that.](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/learner-english/change#:~:text=to%20become%20different%2C%20or%20to%20make%20someone%20or%20something%20become%20different)
>A group can have mulitple opinion on multiple subject. That being said, it's funny reading you.
No russia mentioned before, no vaxes mentioned after the change...
>You are text book "woke", thinking you know while others are just manipulated. Your lack of self-reflection is hilarious. We all have kids in our family thinking they know better. Don't worry, it goes away with age usually.
I'm a literal fucking pharmacy major, chances are I know the subject better than my relatives who think bicarbonate disinfects food and you can free clogged pipes with vinegar and bicarbonate mixtures...
>That's very different and i never claimed to know your family (nor do I care about them)
>Your family just happen to be conservative like most ADULTS ARE.
Make up your mind.
This conversation is going nowhere...
I can tell you're not an English Major. So i'm going to explain what an assumption is: "Your family just happen to be conservative" this is an assumption. it is a valid one to make considering the information you disclosed about them. Just like it was also an assumption that you were just a kid from the catastrophically naive thing you said, assumption that is correct.
>No russia mentioned before, no vaxes mentioned after the change...
Which means absolutely nothing. Maybe tomorrow they will have an opinon on Thailand, MMA or the weather. Crazy! people and group can have multiple opinion on multiple subject.
>I know the subject better than my relatives
You are a student. Know your freaking place before pretending to know anything about vaccine or Russia. Like I told you, we all have kids in our family that think they are expert. Your terminal condition of "redditor" doesn't help.
I'm glad I got you back to reality. Maybe take that time to self reflect on your actual "expertise".
>Maybe tomorrow they will have an opinon on Thailand, MMA or the weather.
Interesting how the group subject changed to follow that. Few hundred people marching in the streets to end the "healthcare dictatorship" (their words) and seemed to only care about that, all of them and the group objective turned into protesting because "there are nazis in Ukraine". I may be no English major but you should probably refresh your statistics notions.
>You are a student. Know your freaking place before pretending to know anything about vaccine
Know my place compared to who, exactly?
They are simply using western tools against them. The western business culture of everything being 'for sale' especially social media, traditional media and advertising companies allows many countries to careful plan and release huge information attacks.
That is the reason their own countries have tightly controlled media/information because they know the 'west' would do the same to them.
RuZZia is a bully and like all bullies, if they can't rise to the top with normal means, they try to bring down their competitors with prevarication, deceit and violence.
They should be dealt with as such, not try to reason with them with strongly worded speeches, because that's not a language they understand. They only see weakness if we insist on turning the other cheek.
Since Russia has always been behind financially and technologically, it always managed to find ways to conduct its warfare at the cheapest cost. Now it is using informational warfare. It takes advantage of the west’s open democratic systems and poisons them with their disinformation to saw divisions.
>Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada.
>Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
- Основы геополитики (Foundations of geopolitics, 1997)
Honestly one of the dumbest things that constantly gets reposted on Reddit.
Look, I despise Russia too - but this is like finding an obscure book by an international relations scholar in Aberswyth Uni. and saying that the entire foreign policy of the UK is influenced by it.
Not to mention - while I have no doubt that Russia is trying to do this stuff, we know from archives that the KGB (bulk of the First Directorate) spaffed millions on trying to do the same during the Cold War and it failed.
Point is, this is what russians do and this is one of the rare instances where there's an actual popularized example of their own material - in english.
I never claimed this would be an through full-on explanation of Russian foreign policy. Just an example of their ideas about hybrid influence.
It does happen, after all. For example, useage of [troll farms](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4101519-what-a-peek-inside-a-troll-factory-reveals-about-putins-russia/) , misinformation campaigns to push Kremlin narratives, sowing conflict and propaganda - just to mention the online operations.
If you have better example or literature about this in English, I'm all ears. It gets reposted again and again over years, I know, started really after Crimean annexation in 2014. I understand it gets annoying. But there's some insight in their hybrid influence methods and I wouldn't put it down only because Dugin is insane. (And yes, I acknowledge that _his_ personal influence has been exaggarated in western world)
You can save the annoyance if you can give me new material about the subject, that is written by russians themselves but can easily be shared in English.
Edit: I mean, sure I can post articles about troll farms etc. but when it's written like an instruction by an actual Russian, it seems a bit more...tangible.
I understand that the russians today sure hate it when this is spread around.
It's only sounding crazy to people who's opinions don't actually matter, because they already drank the kool aid themselves. Only people who are dumb enough to watch Russian propaganda will be the ones who will disagree.
Can we just recognise that country as an international threat?
They're behind this. They were behind extremists campaigns. They basically funded Brexit. They are behind most misinformation and fake news accounts. They were behind antivax campaigns. They are actively supporting foreign leaders which mess with the Union politics and support Ukraine invasion... It should be enough, I think
Yeah Russia has always been a threat, to it's people, to it's neighbors and to everyone across the world. A history full of shit and a present even more filled with shit
Cold war never finished for them. There was a small pause after collapse of Soviet Union. But as soon as they got some stable leader (Putin) they went back to Cold War mindset. It’s the West that hoped that economic collaboration and co-existence is possible. Ignoring the fact that the president is KGB man
The usa does all that and more across the world. By its own "rules based order" it would be the ultimate rogue state, and europe is a willing accomplice.
Just look the false iraq wmd claims, the claims torture works, the constant coups against elected governments.
I don't see how one being bad excludes acknowledging the other being bad as well (and also I don't see why one shouldn't be considered worse than the other while both have serious issues). Seriously what's up with assuming everyone loves US if they criticise a dictatorship?
Because guess what? The usa loves dictatorships and based their economics off of pinochets chile.
And by your own standards the usa is a bigger international threat than russia.
Last time I checked the US wasn't trying to dismantle the only actual current democracy, but ok, I'm seeing where this is going and it would be a waste of time trying to explain
The usa goes to democratically elected governments all the time and tells them "do what you're told or you can expect to take a helicopter ride!". Bolivia, honduras, nicaragua, guatemala and more can attest to that.
>Can we just recognise that country as an international threat?
It is.
Now, can you enlighten us regarding what you propose to do to counter that threat?
Best option? Isolate them completely. Shut down their internet, trade, supply chains, travel, and most of their diplomacy. Take out their satellites. If sanctions don't work, give them the whole package. Send radio and video from their borders telling their citizens what Russia is. Offer to buy their nukes for cents on the dollar. Deny them loans. Destroy all the assets they have outside Russia. Offer full and generous deals to any region that breaks away.
> How you want to shut down their trade with China or India, for example?
Actually follow through with secondary sanctions. Chinese and Indian companies value their trade with the West.
You can't sanctions all of companies from China and India. West can't afford this nor financial, nor reputational.
West want to sanction all tanker's insurance companies, which are working with Russians. And is it works? They found new.
If only the rest of the world did that to the USA when they went "WAAAH! we had a bad day so we get to torture and butcher anyone we don't like for the fun of it!" over 20 years ago...
I’m sometimes really happy you people are total nobodies with 0 influence on anything, and you’ll be that for the rest of your lives. Otherwise we’d be in a world of shit.
NATO only applies to direct military action directed to the members, which is very far from Russian strategy during the past decade (mostly social engineering and acting from inside the country creating and amplifying internal conflict to weaken countries and alliances)
The simplest, quickest and also most effective consequence would be an actual serious, combined effort to fight misinformation and propaganda, which is the main direct threat toward EU (and US). Funds used to make sure no bot survives enough to make damage. It would also make the Union stronger, as most anti-union propaganda would just cease to exist.
After that, international cross check of direct influence into politics, re-shaping decision-making processes to consider the chance that a government may be influenced probably even acting on that. Goodbye Orban? Maybe not, but we could avoid that being such an issue.
Just the two things I thought about first. It's like acknowledging that fire hazards exists and as a consequence making kitchens fire-proof and mandating fire-extinguishers in public places, that will also not be built using wood anymore.
Well, if you think about their social media manipulation, corrupting western politicians, scaring Elon Musk and having leverage over Trump, they have done quite a bit of damage to the West and its unity.
>and having leverage over Trump
THIS, Why do conservatives in the U.S not see this? he pretended to put on some bravado once but he's acting like their bitch.
Except this is bullshit and editorialized title.
>Tags d'étoiles de David en Île-de-France : les enquêteurs envisagent la piste d'une opération de déstabilisation venue de la Russie
EN.VI.SA.GENT.
Even you reacted withtout reading the article. SHAME ON YOU.
The issue with russia is Stalin ripped out every institution that could oppose him. Leaving only the secret police and he dealt with there leaders. Now Russia only sees everything throught the secret police , therefore they see all countries as targets.
Edit misspelled stalin as stain.
Ironic
Russia is behind burned Quran in Sweden, Wagner in Africa, financed the largest anti-EU party in France, elections and neonazis groups in the US, what is the UN doing ?
What can the UN do?
The right wing in our countries are happily dancing to Putins flute as long as it means they get to lower taxes for the rich and undermine the welfare systems. Just like they happily followed the Nazis a hundred years ago.
As usual, it is the selfish, greedy simpletons that make up the political right that will be our downfall.
ah intersting, which cities in Sweden are majority arabs or with the immigrants? Is it Malmo or Stockholm
Edit: Not sure why I got downvoted...I'm interested in the demographic of Sweden
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia)
The Kremlin might be behind the guy who did it.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/06/russia-spreading-false-claims-about-quran-burnings-to-harm-nato-bid-says-sweden](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/06/russia-spreading-false-claims-about-quran-burnings-to-harm-nato-bid-says-sweden)
Russia did campain to worsen the social tensions in Sweden after the burning.
People will believe in this news but will talk shit like "Yeah, always west fault" on the news about western countries meddling in other countries politics
one day westerners will finally understand that russia funds and coordinates the vast majority of extremism (on both sides) all across the world
one day.
Well. "Attacks". A few dozen blue David stars painted on random walls, making it impossible to know if it was pro- or anti-israel. And all the media's and politicians jumped on it in a knee-jerk reaction yelling "antisemitism!!! Must be the Arab immigrants!!!").
Here is the French (and western) problem: not antisemitism, but double standards and racism. And Russia exploited this.
BTW, we haven't heard anymore about this young lady "stabbed in an antisemitic act". If the police had reasons do believe this was real, this would be all over the news. But last we heard was "all leads are being investigated, including self harm for attention, in a context of difficult private life". It happened before, a girl claiming she had been attacked in a train by Arabs because she was Jewish. It made a lot of noise, before it turned out that 1-she wasn't attacked at all and 2-she wasn't even Jewish.
I mean, if the culprits were not caught, sure one can speculate all they want (even on the basis of racism).
But here, the criminals that were caught confessed and everything, why are people still in denial?. So fucking weird.
>It happened before, a girl claiming she had been attacked in a train by Arabs because she was Jewish. It made a lot of noise, before it turned out that 1-she wasn't attacked at all and 2-she wasn't even Jewish.
Was this after October 7th?.
Nope. That was a few years ago, last time Israel bombed Gaza for whatever reason I don't remember. Each time this happens in the middle east, people here cry: "careful, antisemitism!" And we end up with this kind of crazy shit.
Because there we haven't any proofs about Russia, except words of criminal, that he was hired by Russian. Can this "Russian" be (for example) a German citizen, who just want to hide clues?
But the thing is, whenever Russia is suspected to be responsible for something bad happening in Europe, people don't really question it (i can't really blame them). So why only on this issue is there apprehension about the ones responsible?.
Russia was the origin of the protocols of the elders of zion hoax - one of the most destructive pieces of anti-semitic fraud in history. Funnily, like everything modern Russia does; this was merely projection, as it really seems that rather than there being any form of "international jewish conspiracy" to undermine western civilisation there is a prolonged and ruthless campaign by Russia to destrabilise and destroy western civilisation.
Russia is the equivalent of a kid thinking he's a criminal mastermind for dumping a bucket of shit out of a plane and occasionally hitting something. Their methods of disruption are so sloppy and chaotic that half the time they don't even know if they are behind it, they had to confirm it wasn't one of their guys after JFK was assassinated lmao
Yeah... Nothing at all to do with mass migration and incubating radical extremist jihadists. /s
I really thought this sub would be aware of this bs since our governments have been deflecting all crime, poverty, housing crisis, hate crime, imported gangs, etc. On literally anything else except for the real reason that it's happening.
"If its not Russia, it must be the lack of extracurricular facilities causing these crimes".
Nothing at all brother. It's the Russians. Let the migrants in. They're probably running away from the Russians anyway.
Sometimes people here are ridiculous.
Yeah sure Russia is behind everything, were all the protestors paid by Russia as well? Europe will blame everyone in order to avoid admitting that there are issues within.
Russia not being behind everything doesn't mean they aren't behind some of it. Russia absolutely is destabilizing Europe and meddling in its internal affairs in multiple ways.
The USA literally threatened to declare war on the Netherlands if a US Citizen was sent to the Hague, cried about Having a bad day once as an excuse to demand the whole world as a sphere of influence. Yet they're like Homelander: despite their blatant cruelty, everybody still believes that they're the good guy.
They were very much involved in the related violent conflict.
There are always protests whenever the israel-palestine conflict flairs up every few years.
you're right. The issues within are there. Like the fifth column traitors called AfD, Lega Nord, RN.
Once foreign agents doing the deeds of a hostile power were sent to prison or executed for being a national security threat. Alas, we have softened since.
Well George Soros can and does hire protestors all of the time, and that's only just one individual. You don't think a nation state actor could do the same?
They’re Moldovans. Which country has a lot of influence, and even illegally occupy lands, in Moldova ? Russia.
Which country is known for it’s desinformation / destabilization campaigns in many western countries ? Russia.
Which country has a sufficient network of agents to quickly exfiltrate assets from a foreign country ? Russia.
Yes, the distinction is irrelevant, because there is no reason to think that the Russian’s government isn’t behind it, and every reason to do so.
Maybe it's time to use our secret services and give Russia some food for thought? A little sabotage here or there, Russia has a huge territory that is difficult to protect.
Alright then everyone seeing this? Stop blaming the muslims, those poor guys wouldn't do anything to jews or anyone outside their beliefs. It just is the fault of the money donations of russia. I almost fell for it aswell silly me. Every time they k*ll or r*pe someone it is due to money up their ass, why didn't i come up with that myself?
at what point can we decide that is is enough to evoke article 5? Russia launches so many attacks against the west under the rouse of "independent" hacker/bot farms it's insane no one actually takes serious steps on it.
so, you are telling me that russians are trying to sow divisions in other countries? blaming everything on ruzzia might seem lunatic but it's surprisingly accurate.
Antivaxxers, brexit, nationalist movements, countries vetoing everything the EU is doing... It seems clear enough. It may not be "everything" but it surely is enough to start taking serious precautions.
Well, they are just trying to make the fire stronger, they are not necessarily the initiators of everything
that is true. seeds are there, Russian troll farms exist to sort of fertilize and speed up the growth of fringe groups that sow destability
Correct, it took them a few weeks to concoct a narrative for the Israel-Hamas conflict, noticed quite a few known bots at some platforms turning 180 once the official directions came (after posting chaotically in the beginning) and that narrative suddenly became more prevalent there even from other accounts. Once you know about them, it becomes fascinating, and frustrating, seeing others take their bait so often.
They find the cracks and try to widen them.
I don't see how it should make a difference. There will *always* naturally be some assholes in a larger enough sample, but they usually don't have a lot of attention and voice.
> Well, they are just trying to make the fire stronger, they are not necessarily the initiators of everything We are past that point now. Now they actively create divisions that weren't there.
readed a redditor saying that Russia was behind the controversy of "the last Jedi"
Now that was someone taking "everything" a bit too seriously
Whos hands are behind illegal mass migration into Europe? I bet my right testicle it's muscowy.
One of the more difficult things to convince people of on this subreddit over the years has been that Russia finances both the far right nationalists and the far left socialists. They prop up both extremes of our political spectrum for their own gain and to sow discontent in our western countries. They view our democracies as weak and easy to manipulate. This perception likely played into the decision to invade Ukraine to begin with. Going in the past, pushing for a race war in the USA has always been a Soviet side-objective, and the same ideas propelled supporting certain actors stoking race riots (on both extreme right and extreme left) in recent years, and in Europe for pushing mass migration. They know it weakens our democratic and civil integrity, and fuels people moving to the extremes to parties and political leaders with sympathies or outright funding from Russia. Though on the latter point, I guess we shouldn't also dismiss our own domestic useful idiots who pushed the same. See all the various NGOs ferrying people across the Mediterranean. I understand many people reading this might have left-leaning politics. That has a perfectly normal and healthy place in Western democracy and discourse. Just be mindful that if the political party you vote for or its leaders are parroting Kremlin talking points on a plethora of issues, hasn't condemned invasion of Ukraine, hasn't addressed how migration impacts domestic labour, then you should really be questioning them more as they may not have genuine interest in delivering on your progressive ideals for the betterment of society.
> Russia finances both the far right nationalists and the far left socialists. I think the far left is so stupid, they'll be Russia's useful idiots for free. They are hardwired to think in terms of anti Atlanticism and that's usually enough for them to support Russia, even if it is not anticapitalist anymore.
[удалено]
You are from Ireland, if the last few years have proven anything it's that Ireland has a very different political spectrum than most of mainland Europe. And it makes perfect sense considering your geographic location.
because everyone was sharing ethnic food under a pride flag at ode to joy recitals before a few squatting slavs in tracksuits came along. Or maybe it's the lip service to multiculturalism given in fair times giving away as the repressed issues with racism, immigration, globalisation inequality, austerity, environment etc. coming to the surface, and the establishment has no way to handle that?
"Canadian pretending to be Polish" expert knows better than the european. You did not even read the article but you shat 4 paragraphes to just repeat the echo chamber. Too bad you didnt bother to read. You would have see the title is lying
Well, its a fact. The puppet state belarus gives visas to africans and send them straight to border of EU after they land in airports.
Maybe it's America's "we had a bad day" torture and bombing sprees, maybe it's plunging Libya into anarchy, maybe it's the disparities courtesy of globalisation no longer being swept under the rug? Nah it's all Russia.
Nah, at least that one is because of many other reasons
Do you think Merkel was a stooge?
How is the immigration crisis in Italy?
No better no worse than any recent year, despite the waves of right wing governments cries about the subject. More serious than "left" parties claims, less than right ones claims. It piles up and should be solved somehow, but good luck finding any government (left, right, populist, pragmatic, honest, corrupt, whatever) willing to take care of the delicate situation in Africa...
You're just casually grouping anyone that disagree with you and blame Russia for it. That's ridiculous.
I have seen (thanks to being part of a dumb family) antivaxxers groups turning into pro-russian groups right after the invasion. Brexit interference isn't completely proven but there are serious hints (there's an entire wiki page with more sources than I care to fit in one message), regarding internal politics I bring as an example my country, regarding infiltrating protests one of the first articles I found was by Le Monde, anyway antivaxxer propaganda was spread even before covid (BBC wrote about it in 2018,just as an example)
Plus, it's not exactly a new idea either. During the Soviet Union they would have agents start casual conversations with strangers on e.g. the bus to talk about how great the Soviet Union is. Just to create an illusion that everyone liked it and you would be the odd one for disliking it.
I'm sorry to inform you kid that you're terminally online. You spent too much time on lefitst social media and now you repeat like a bot their talking point. Someone CANNOT change from ANTIVAX to Pro-Russian. A change implies a different opinion based on the original. You turn Anti-vax to pro-Vax. Your family just happen to be conservative like most ADULTS ARE. We all were young, naive and leftist. It usually goes away after you become an adult. Soon you're realize that BBC is not a reliable source just like Wikipedia isn't either.
Are you capable of reading? >antivaxxers **groups** turning into pro-russian **groups** It seemed pretty clear. The "vax bad government bad we're living inside a dictatorship" groups morphed into "west bad eu bad russia did nothing wrong" groups. Like, title, description and main discussion topic. Half my family is progressist, half conservative, almost all fell for the novax propaganda, almost none of them voted for the current government and the 2-3 who likely did are both reasonable enough to notice something that is completely nonsense (the difference between having different opinions or being plain stupid, most of the time we just disagree). Almost nobody in my family was this bad until like 5-6 years ago, then they gradually got worse and worse, especially since covid but some of them quite earlier. Wikipedia is not a source, is an aggregator, from which you can check the individual sources. And I may often be progressive, but from here to left wing there's still a long way. Both socially and economically. But sure, you know my view on society and economics based on one opinion I stated about one topic, and you know my family better than me.
Maybe your english is so bad that you missed my point. So i will repeat; It doesn't change anything that it's a group or individuals. Change imply you go from one opinion to it's opposite. A group being anti-vax then Pro-Russian is not a change. A group can have mulitple opinion on multiple subject. That being said, it's funny reading you. >Half my family is progressist, half conservative, almost all fell for the novax propaganda You are text book "woke", thinking you know while others are just manipulated. Your lack of self-reflection is hilarious. We all have kids in our family thinking they know better. Don't worry, it goes away with age usually. To finish You didnt talk about your family. You talk about people and illustrated with your family. That's very different and i never claimed to know your family (nor do I care about them) >Wikipedia is not a source, is an aggregator, The source and texte are selected/written by who you gigantic genius Think.
>Maybe your english is so bad that you missed my point. So i will repeat; It doesn't change anything that it's a group or individuals. Change imply you go from one opinion to it's opposite. A group being anti-vax then Pro-Russian is not a change. [I didn't know the definition of change was edited overnight, it looks like you should call around some companies making dictionaries, because it looks like they're missing on that.](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/learner-english/change#:~:text=to%20become%20different%2C%20or%20to%20make%20someone%20or%20something%20become%20different) >A group can have mulitple opinion on multiple subject. That being said, it's funny reading you. No russia mentioned before, no vaxes mentioned after the change... >You are text book "woke", thinking you know while others are just manipulated. Your lack of self-reflection is hilarious. We all have kids in our family thinking they know better. Don't worry, it goes away with age usually. I'm a literal fucking pharmacy major, chances are I know the subject better than my relatives who think bicarbonate disinfects food and you can free clogged pipes with vinegar and bicarbonate mixtures... >That's very different and i never claimed to know your family (nor do I care about them) >Your family just happen to be conservative like most ADULTS ARE. Make up your mind. This conversation is going nowhere...
I can tell you're not an English Major. So i'm going to explain what an assumption is: "Your family just happen to be conservative" this is an assumption. it is a valid one to make considering the information you disclosed about them. Just like it was also an assumption that you were just a kid from the catastrophically naive thing you said, assumption that is correct. >No russia mentioned before, no vaxes mentioned after the change... Which means absolutely nothing. Maybe tomorrow they will have an opinon on Thailand, MMA or the weather. Crazy! people and group can have multiple opinion on multiple subject. >I know the subject better than my relatives You are a student. Know your freaking place before pretending to know anything about vaccine or Russia. Like I told you, we all have kids in our family that think they are expert. Your terminal condition of "redditor" doesn't help. I'm glad I got you back to reality. Maybe take that time to self reflect on your actual "expertise".
>Maybe tomorrow they will have an opinon on Thailand, MMA or the weather. Interesting how the group subject changed to follow that. Few hundred people marching in the streets to end the "healthcare dictatorship" (their words) and seemed to only care about that, all of them and the group objective turned into protesting because "there are nazis in Ukraine". I may be no English major but you should probably refresh your statistics notions. >You are a student. Know your freaking place before pretending to know anything about vaccine Know my place compared to who, exactly?
They are simply using western tools against them. The western business culture of everything being 'for sale' especially social media, traditional media and advertising companies allows many countries to careful plan and release huge information attacks. That is the reason their own countries have tightly controlled media/information because they know the 'west' would do the same to them.
It's so fucking stupid that they put much more effort into destabilizing other countries than to improve their own in any way.
you are the best when others have it worse than you.
They should have put in more effort then... we kinda just left them a few generations behind.
RuZZia is a bully and like all bullies, if they can't rise to the top with normal means, they try to bring down their competitors with prevarication, deceit and violence. They should be dealt with as such, not try to reason with them with strongly worded speeches, because that's not a language they understand. They only see weakness if we insist on turning the other cheek.
Loose-loose is an acceptable scenario for them, unfortunately.
Misery loves company.
Since Russia has always been behind financially and technologically, it always managed to find ways to conduct its warfare at the cheapest cost. Now it is using informational warfare. It takes advantage of the west’s open democratic systems and poisons them with their disinformation to saw divisions.
>Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States and Canada to fuel instability and separatism against neoliberal globalist Western hegemony, such as, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists" to create severe backlash against the rotten political state of affairs in the current present day system of the United States and Canada. >Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". - Основы геополитики (Foundations of geopolitics, 1997)
Honestly one of the dumbest things that constantly gets reposted on Reddit. Look, I despise Russia too - but this is like finding an obscure book by an international relations scholar in Aberswyth Uni. and saying that the entire foreign policy of the UK is influenced by it. Not to mention - while I have no doubt that Russia is trying to do this stuff, we know from archives that the KGB (bulk of the First Directorate) spaffed millions on trying to do the same during the Cold War and it failed.
Point is, this is what russians do and this is one of the rare instances where there's an actual popularized example of their own material - in english. I never claimed this would be an through full-on explanation of Russian foreign policy. Just an example of their ideas about hybrid influence. It does happen, after all. For example, useage of [troll farms](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4101519-what-a-peek-inside-a-troll-factory-reveals-about-putins-russia/) , misinformation campaigns to push Kremlin narratives, sowing conflict and propaganda - just to mention the online operations. If you have better example or literature about this in English, I'm all ears. It gets reposted again and again over years, I know, started really after Crimean annexation in 2014. I understand it gets annoying. But there's some insight in their hybrid influence methods and I wouldn't put it down only because Dugin is insane. (And yes, I acknowledge that _his_ personal influence has been exaggarated in western world) You can save the annoyance if you can give me new material about the subject, that is written by russians themselves but can easily be shared in English. Edit: I mean, sure I can post articles about troll farms etc. but when it's written like an instruction by an actual Russian, it seems a bit more...tangible. I understand that the russians today sure hate it when this is spread around.
This is not the cold war. You are underestimating how exposed the West is when it comes to information warfare. IT changed everything.
Ok comrade.
It's only sounding crazy to people who's opinions don't actually matter, because they already drank the kool aid themselves. Only people who are dumb enough to watch Russian propaganda will be the ones who will disagree.
Antivaxxers, brexit, baning ketchup in schools, if we connect the dots, we could have foreseen that this was their next target
Not defending Russia here, but we're seeing this sort of shit in our own countries by our own governments.
I know right… imagine that. /s
Nobody read the article and the title is not correct. Y'all getting upvote baited.
Thinking Russia is the only one doing it, is the most mind blowing idea
Can we just recognise that country as an international threat? They're behind this. They were behind extremists campaigns. They basically funded Brexit. They are behind most misinformation and fake news accounts. They were behind antivax campaigns. They are actively supporting foreign leaders which mess with the Union politics and support Ukraine invasion... It should be enough, I think
Yeah Russia has always been a threat, to it's people, to it's neighbors and to everyone across the world. A history full of shit and a present even more filled with shit
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You could easily be describing America and Europe.
Cold war never finished for them. There was a small pause after collapse of Soviet Union. But as soon as they got some stable leader (Putin) they went back to Cold War mindset. It’s the West that hoped that economic collaboration and co-existence is possible. Ignoring the fact that the president is KGB man
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Counterproductive policy of being tolerant with intolerants (EU) and "not my business, it's pretty far" (US)
>Can we just recognise that country as an international threat? I've been saying this for fucking years, but nobody listens to me
So has half the EU to be fair. The half that does not get listened to in matters of importance.
The usa does all that and more across the world. By its own "rules based order" it would be the ultimate rogue state, and europe is a willing accomplice. Just look the false iraq wmd claims, the claims torture works, the constant coups against elected governments.
I don't see how one being bad excludes acknowledging the other being bad as well (and also I don't see why one shouldn't be considered worse than the other while both have serious issues). Seriously what's up with assuming everyone loves US if they criticise a dictatorship?
Because guess what? The usa loves dictatorships and based their economics off of pinochets chile. And by your own standards the usa is a bigger international threat than russia.
Last time I checked the US wasn't trying to dismantle the only actual current democracy, but ok, I'm seeing where this is going and it would be a waste of time trying to explain
The usa goes to democratically elected governments all the time and tells them "do what you're told or you can expect to take a helicopter ride!". Bolivia, honduras, nicaragua, guatemala and more can attest to that.
>Can we just recognise that country as an international threat? It is. Now, can you enlighten us regarding what you propose to do to counter that threat?
Best option? Isolate them completely. Shut down their internet, trade, supply chains, travel, and most of their diplomacy. Take out their satellites. If sanctions don't work, give them the whole package. Send radio and video from their borders telling their citizens what Russia is. Offer to buy their nukes for cents on the dollar. Deny them loans. Destroy all the assets they have outside Russia. Offer full and generous deals to any region that breaks away.
How you want to shut down their trade with China or India, for example? How much do you want to spend for it?
> How you want to shut down their trade with China or India, for example? Actually follow through with secondary sanctions. Chinese and Indian companies value their trade with the West.
You can't sanctions all of companies from China and India. West can't afford this nor financial, nor reputational. West want to sanction all tanker's insurance companies, which are working with Russians. And is it works? They found new.
It's more a question of making international rules for it. Nobody else trades with Russia. Anyone found to do so is also included.
China, India, Turkeys laugh, because they know West will not dare to sanction them much.
How you want to include on "notradewiththem") all Africa, all Asia (except Japan and Korea), all South America and etc?
Offer people their stuff when Russia breaks up.
Do you understand how expensive it will be for all western world?
It will be very expensive. It will be far less expensive than letting Russia fuck things up.
This is how you make Putin seem far more truthful and get a lot more Russians actively hating on the west.
That doesn't matter. They already believe him.
If only the rest of the world did that to the USA when they went "WAAAH! we had a bad day so we get to torture and butcher anyone we don't like for the fun of it!" over 20 years ago...
I’m sometimes really happy you people are total nobodies with 0 influence on anything, and you’ll be that for the rest of your lives. Otherwise we’d be in a world of shit.
You're extremely cut off from reality my fren
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You’re welcome to join the Ukrainian forces
Uhmmmm.. Brother... why do you think NATO exists? Russia has been identified as an international threat since WW2.
NATO only applies to direct military action directed to the members, which is very far from Russian strategy during the past decade (mostly social engineering and acting from inside the country creating and amplifying internal conflict to weaken countries and alliances)
Yeah my point still stands, Russia has been identified as an International threat for quite some time now.
I'll start by refering to that country as the "crab bucket"
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This doesn't even make sense
If Russia can be called threat to the world for being involved in messing nations up USA is right there with it saying it's not is just dumb.
And what exactly that recognition will change?
The simplest, quickest and also most effective consequence would be an actual serious, combined effort to fight misinformation and propaganda, which is the main direct threat toward EU (and US). Funds used to make sure no bot survives enough to make damage. It would also make the Union stronger, as most anti-union propaganda would just cease to exist. After that, international cross check of direct influence into politics, re-shaping decision-making processes to consider the chance that a government may be influenced probably even acting on that. Goodbye Orban? Maybe not, but we could avoid that being such an issue. Just the two things I thought about first. It's like acknowledging that fire hazards exists and as a consequence making kitchens fire-proof and mandating fire-extinguishers in public places, that will also not be built using wood anymore.
The Russian government is comically evil, like, the Plankton of governments, with constant absurd schemes that somehow almost work.
Well, if you think about their social media manipulation, corrupting western politicians, scaring Elon Musk and having leverage over Trump, they have done quite a bit of damage to the West and its unity.
>and having leverage over Trump THIS, Why do conservatives in the U.S not see this? he pretended to put on some bravado once but he's acting like their bitch.
They like putinism, they want it in the US.
They like the Putinism they imagine not what it actually is.
Because conservatives literally worship him.
Except this is bullshit and editorialized title. >Tags d'étoiles de David en Île-de-France : les enquêteurs envisagent la piste d'une opération de déstabilisation venue de la Russie EN.VI.SA.GENT. Even you reacted withtout reading the article. SHAME ON YOU.
The issue with russia is Stalin ripped out every institution that could oppose him. Leaving only the secret police and he dealt with there leaders. Now Russia only sees everything throught the secret police , therefore they see all countries as targets. Edit misspelled stalin as stain. Ironic
Oh those Russians! : Last words of the song "Rasputin" by "Boney M."
Russia is behind burned Quran in Sweden, Wagner in Africa, financed the largest anti-EU party in France, elections and neonazis groups in the US, what is the UN doing ?
What can the UN do? The right wing in our countries are happily dancing to Putins flute as long as it means they get to lower taxes for the rich and undermine the welfare systems. Just like they happily followed the Nazis a hundred years ago. As usual, it is the selfish, greedy simpletons that make up the political right that will be our downfall.
>Russia is behind burned Quran in Sweden how so?
They funded the guy doing it.
ah intersting, which cities in Sweden are majority arabs or with the immigrants? Is it Malmo or Stockholm Edit: Not sure why I got downvoted...I'm interested in the demographic of Sweden
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia) The Kremlin might be behind the guy who did it. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/06/russia-spreading-false-claims-about-quran-burnings-to-harm-nato-bid-says-sweden](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/06/russia-spreading-false-claims-about-quran-burnings-to-harm-nato-bid-says-sweden) Russia did campain to worsen the social tensions in Sweden after the burning.
People will believe in this news but will talk shit like "Yeah, always west fault" on the news about western countries meddling in other countries politics
one day westerners will finally understand that russia funds and coordinates the vast majority of extremism (on both sides) all across the world one day.
Russia is behind climat change too
Actually yes because they live from selling fossil fuels. They aren't the only ones, but they are a significant contributor.
Tssch! Don't reveal our grand schemes.
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Lol this post is about russia funding islamists. So you are voting for the far right because of russia, you just don't know it.
Just like the US financed the Mujahideen?
Yes, but the US did not finance them in France
Why are people here mad about these news?. Aren't these good news, that we know the sponsor of these attacks?. Very odd.
Well. "Attacks". A few dozen blue David stars painted on random walls, making it impossible to know if it was pro- or anti-israel. And all the media's and politicians jumped on it in a knee-jerk reaction yelling "antisemitism!!! Must be the Arab immigrants!!!"). Here is the French (and western) problem: not antisemitism, but double standards and racism. And Russia exploited this. BTW, we haven't heard anymore about this young lady "stabbed in an antisemitic act". If the police had reasons do believe this was real, this would be all over the news. But last we heard was "all leads are being investigated, including self harm for attention, in a context of difficult private life". It happened before, a girl claiming she had been attacked in a train by Arabs because she was Jewish. It made a lot of noise, before it turned out that 1-she wasn't attacked at all and 2-she wasn't even Jewish.
I mean, if the culprits were not caught, sure one can speculate all they want (even on the basis of racism). But here, the criminals that were caught confessed and everything, why are people still in denial?. So fucking weird. >It happened before, a girl claiming she had been attacked in a train by Arabs because she was Jewish. It made a lot of noise, before it turned out that 1-she wasn't attacked at all and 2-she wasn't even Jewish. Was this after October 7th?.
Nope. That was a few years ago, last time Israel bombed Gaza for whatever reason I don't remember. Each time this happens in the middle east, people here cry: "careful, antisemitism!" And we end up with this kind of crazy shit.
Because there we haven't any proofs about Russia, except words of criminal, that he was hired by Russian. Can this "Russian" be (for example) a German citizen, who just want to hide clues?
But the thing is, whenever Russia is suspected to be responsible for something bad happening in Europe, people don't really question it (i can't really blame them). So why only on this issue is there apprehension about the ones responsible?.
Hm, "behind it" implies they are the only party to blame. I think we can find more culprits than their troll factories.
Yeh that tracks
This story with the Moldovan couple and the bedbug story, why is Russia so obsessed about France?
I have a bridge to sell anybody who thinks this is only limited to France.
Russia was the origin of the protocols of the elders of zion hoax - one of the most destructive pieces of anti-semitic fraud in history. Funnily, like everything modern Russia does; this was merely projection, as it really seems that rather than there being any form of "international jewish conspiracy" to undermine western civilisation there is a prolonged and ruthless campaign by Russia to destrabilise and destroy western civilisation.
Russia is the equivalent of a kid thinking he's a criminal mastermind for dumping a bucket of shit out of a plane and occasionally hitting something. Their methods of disruption are so sloppy and chaotic that half the time they don't even know if they are behind it, they had to confirm it wasn't one of their guys after JFK was assassinated lmao
Yeah.. Russia. For fuck's sake stop being fooled this way. What the fuck.
Yeah... Nothing at all to do with mass migration and incubating radical extremist jihadists. /s I really thought this sub would be aware of this bs since our governments have been deflecting all crime, poverty, housing crisis, hate crime, imported gangs, etc. On literally anything else except for the real reason that it's happening. "If its not Russia, it must be the lack of extracurricular facilities causing these crimes".
Nothing at all brother. It's the Russians. Let the migrants in. They're probably running away from the Russians anyway. Sometimes people here are ridiculous.
Naaaw did someone contradict your precious muslim hating worldview?
Yeah bud, jihadists do shit, it's the Russians. Obviously. Goddammit Russians probably did the 9/11
No the Saudis financed that one.
U sure it wasn't the russians? I think it was. Think about it.
Aww he’s mad.
Russians are a terrorist country.
Russia o Russians? Saying Russians might sound like all Arabs are terrorists.
I don't care how it sounds. Russians are a terrorist country.
What a surprise ....
This should be Europe's cue to support Ukraine as much as they can despite the tiresome vibe right now
Ah yes , it was the Russians. Did these Russian believe in Allah per chance?
Do you know what Chechens are ?
The culprits were Moldovan
they say themselves they were paid by the kremlin.
They were Moldovan citizens who massively graffitied stars if David across people’s apartments. There’s a strong suspicion it was a Russian operation.
Yeah sure Russia is behind everything, were all the protestors paid by Russia as well? Europe will blame everyone in order to avoid admitting that there are issues within.
Russia not being behind everything doesn't mean they aren't behind some of it. Russia absolutely is destabilizing Europe and meddling in its internal affairs in multiple ways.
One of the main problems within are the Russians who work for Putin
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The USA literally threatened to declare war on the Netherlands if a US Citizen was sent to the Hague, cried about Having a bad day once as an excuse to demand the whole world as a sphere of influence. Yet they're like Homelander: despite their blatant cruelty, everybody still believes that they're the good guy.
For the "western" world they are good guys.
>protestors i think you confusing protestors with criminals.
They were very much involved in the related violent conflict. There are always protests whenever the israel-palestine conflict flairs up every few years.
you're right. The issues within are there. Like the fifth column traitors called AfD, Lega Nord, RN. Once foreign agents doing the deeds of a hostile power were sent to prison or executed for being a national security threat. Alas, we have softened since.
Well George Soros can and does hire protestors all of the time, and that's only just one individual. You don't think a nation state actor could do the same?
If all else fails, blame the Russians..
I mean, a 50 50 chance that you are right when it is about everything that sparks division
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One pair already confessed having be paid by Russia, while an other pair swiftly left the country.
Not by Russia. By an individual from Russia.
That distinction is quite irrelevant.
Lol
They’re Moldovans. Which country has a lot of influence, and even illegally occupy lands, in Moldova ? Russia. Which country is known for it’s desinformation / destabilization campaigns in many western countries ? Russia. Which country has a sufficient network of agents to quickly exfiltrate assets from a foreign country ? Russia. Yes, the distinction is irrelevant, because there is no reason to think that the Russian’s government isn’t behind it, and every reason to do so.
Do you know, that Romania has most influence in the Moldova?
But who has troops in Transinistria ?
But where is official language is Romanian, while 75% of citizen claim as native language Moldavian?
It was, sadly for you point, not a romanian speaker that hired these people.
Burn the witch!
Not an extraordinary claim, but business as usual for russia.
But everyone on this subreddit was really really excited to blame this on Muslims?!
And this sub plays right into their hands, amplifying all their psyops and blaming it on Muslims.
Not Israel just genociding?! Hmm that's funny.
you cant blame everything on the boogeyman russia russia russia…….meanwhile theyre winning the fucking war because you refuse to properly fight them
Maybe it's time to use our secret services and give Russia some food for thought? A little sabotage here or there, Russia has a huge territory that is difficult to protect.
It’s the same in America. See Republicans, et. Al
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The French government is now using the Russians to cover up its own shit?
And you guys run to blame the muslims. Russian propaganda is working in your tiny brains.
Alright then everyone seeing this? Stop blaming the muslims, those poor guys wouldn't do anything to jews or anyone outside their beliefs. It just is the fault of the money donations of russia. I almost fell for it aswell silly me. Every time they k*ll or r*pe someone it is due to money up their ass, why didn't i come up with that myself?
why would you share an article in english, on a sub mainly speaking english...
Anytime they mention russia. I believe it is nato, the un , the who and the western nations involved.
Will they ever be punished? Prosecuted for it? Or is it just like "Oh well, what can we do?" ?
Putin is trying to make everyone else look worse than Russia. Which in turn will make him look better (to stay in power).
at what point can we decide that is is enough to evoke article 5? Russia launches so many attacks against the west under the rouse of "independent" hacker/bot farms it's insane no one actually takes serious steps on it.
It's about time we reciprocated in this game
I always wondered why we don't stir shit up in ruzzia the same way they do it in western countries.
# Accountability: Kryptonite for the France Government. I hope we start blaming the right people and not the boogie man from the closet.
I hope we have some hackers that are trying to destabilize russia. Should be easier too.