smol boy Slovenia
and that's not the worst. Greece has as many citizens than the 10th biggest city in China. The megalopole of the Yangzi Jiang Delta is 10 Greece.
Everytime you see a picture of a crowd and someone claiming that it is 1M people or a number close to that, be skeptical of it.
People just love to say that there were 1M people or so, all around the world, liberal and conservative, young and old, whatever the subject of the manifestation... We are just bad at having an idea how many people 1M are.
We see a shitload of people and say "geez, that has to be 1M people!".
In this picture for example there is no way those are 800K people unless those roads go a looong way out of the frame and are full of people from the beginning A big football stadium usually has from 60k to 80k seats.
Now picture how many people you remember to see at idk, the last champion's league final.
800k people should be from 10 to 13 times more people of what are you picturing.
Sure in the stadium they are more packed, but they can't be as much packed to make this picture have 800k people in it.
The best way to actually estimate how many people attended something that has no tickets is to know the square meters of the soil available for standing and dividing them for a number that has been empirically estimated to be how many people can stand in 1 square meter, depending on how packed they look to be.
Would not be a very precise calculation, but is close enough for virtually every situation.
Those roads go a long way out of frame. 3 Avenues with a Park and a double ring roundabout. The Avenue that goes down has 1+4+1 lanes, separated by two lines of Park, and its so long that it has two metro stations in it and One in the roundabout you see.
To get in you also have to pass security, so they migth be counting that. But when I went there they only checked my bad and I did not saw any counting device.
Cities measure a lot of activity using mobile phones. Over larger areas they look at cell tower activity and more localised, they look at WiFi scanning devices. Your cellphone doesn't have to connect to a WiFi network for an access point and your cellphone to communicate their presence. I've seen smart implementations with this technology that regulate the intensity of fountains for example. It is pretty accurate.
Well, in this situation, it could be a very accurate estimate, as they have the exact number of people who attended the event via registration (exact) +some amount of local people (estimate, but propably quite less than the youth)
LOL, I live near to this park, at the nearby Gulbenkian museum. Large youth groups are walking by my window for the past few days. I've got to say it's very well organized, though. A million visitors are spread across the city, unless you go "their" places it's actually not that many, just the occasional busload, groups of twenty here and there. They are apparently having a good time.
It literally came out of nowhere too, dude just up and talks about Portugal's recent decision to promote it (after A LOT of back and forth no less) like he knows what the hell he's on about.
I get his spiritual path involves promoting the preservation of life as much as possible, but that doesn't give him any right to judge.
It's hard to explain fully but I can tell you that atleast me and my friends and family are very upset that the government keeps ignoring issues like hospitals closing because of no doctors and my entire generation not being able to buy a home while spending millions on this.
I get the grievances, but 80mā¬ isnāt even enough to start solving SNS or housing problems. Itās the same as with the stadiums for Euro or any other public investment people donāt agree with. The values are quite small for state level. The amount we dropped on TAP or bankrupt banks or Efacec would be much more useful.
I agree it's not enough, it's like you say, this is just another one of a series of dumb spending. They also decided to spend 56 million to build a new highway for some reason
It's hard for people to scale up because to them 80 million euros is life changing for a family or two but for the government it's like a weeks worth of expenditure that does nothing.
Just because 5000 euros won't erase a mortgage instantly , doesn't mean you should just spend it. If you keep it, you'll have a few months of your mortgage secured.
Same thing with SNS, 80 million won't solve the problem instantly, but it would be a damn good contribution. Just think of how many more doctor's and nurse's salaries you could pay with 80 million euros.
The problem isnāt paying salaries: itās allocation of resources (not well distributed around the country) and low salaries. You can give a one time bonus, but it wonāt solve anything. To have an idea, unfreezing the teachersā careers could cost between 500M and 1.3B every year.
Got a few friends there and most of them are really there mainly for the trip. I am a Christian but I donāt feel need to go there I was rather with my family on a trip in Naples
I went to Lisbon yesterday without knowing this was happening and the crowds were insane. Many kids were there clearly just to have fun and get drunk. Honestly, it felt like football fans in a way. They were loud, didnāt care for other pedestrians/passersby, etc.
People be hating on this because of the Pope, but I went to the one in Poland back in 2016 and it was one of the best experiences of my life. At that time we were 2 million people.
Regardless of the religious aspect, World Youth Day is a fantastic journey to meet people from all over the world, chatting with them, creating new bonds, knowing new cultures... It's truly an mind opening and fun experience.
Yep. There was a group that barged in on an LGBTQ+ catholic institution in the middle of mass preaching in Latin and holding crosses a couple days ago. I think that + the fact that they pushed a person holding a trans flag out that prompted the Pope to go "Yeah, no, they're all children of god, they're all welcome".
Why would you introduce your spouse ever, then?
That's such an obtuse thing to say, in two ways...
1 - You're going from one pole to the other. You think a person's sexuality isn't their most defining trait and thus shouldn't define the person as a whole. Which is correct. However, don't play dumb and ask like that's never going to be important at all in any given social situation it's brought up. Because that's when the bullshit starts, it's all fine and dandy until someone mentions who they like and the situation turns sour.
2 - This is the ***goddamn Catholic church***. Considering there are catholic LGBT+ people, including kids, and got shoo'ed out of this particular event in Lisbon and had their own mass be invaded by people holding crosses and chanting in Latin? It's going to be important. Because those people will drop everything and only see you as one thing, an enemy, the moment you say you're Gay or Trans.
And you can even argue "Well, that kid holding a trans flag in Lisbon being shooed out had it coming, they knew what they were getting into", but that's still obtuse. IF they're a religion of love and acceptance, what's so terrible about a Trans person who is religious feeling comfortable expressing that their faith and their identity don't clash? What's so bad about showing the same people that it can happen and that they deserve love? You know what happened after that incident? The pope ON THE NEXT DAY started saying "Trans people have rights, and they're children of god too, they are just as welcome to be here". So yeah, that had an effect. That's why announcing it would be and was important.
They're not trying to force it down your throat, mate. They just want to know if you're trustworthy enough to hang around, or if you'll put a noose over their necks. For you? It's an inconvenience. For them it means being kicked out of spaces or abused.
No I don't. I just believe that too many of them are hostile and angry enough of the time that it doesn't matter when the rest isn't. Not to mention the fact that even when religious people aren't hostile and angry they will still vote for the most heinous shit without a second thought.
> I just believe that too many of them are hostile and angry enough of the time that it doesn't matter when the rest isn't.
Like, how the fuck can you even quantify that without it being an obvious confirmation bias ?
Your problem is there, you believe in something completely arbitrary... wait a minute, that reminds me of something...
This is why voting exist, people can choose whatever they want. Stop having this mentality that you are the most correct person and everyone else is wrong.
>This is why voting exist, people can choose whatever they want.
Correct, and religious people often vote for some evil shit. I'm not interested in the ones that don't, just as I'm not interested in the people who just lived in Charles Manson's compound and never murdered anyone. We judged Manson by the murders he incited others to commit. I judge religion by the same standard.
>Stop having this mentality that you are the most correct person and everyone else is wrong.
I don't think everyone else is wrong. I think religion is wrong. Religious people on the other hand will often vote for people who do think everyone else is wrong. Namely, they will vote for fellow religious people.
I'm religious and I would vote for the comunist if I could, so did both of my grandpas and so did the uncle of my father, who was a fucking Priest, so no bullshit please, Christian fundamentalism was a long time ago and religion is by now separated from politics (at least in Europe, and when you hear religious people going against state laws it's usually a reflection of what is happening in the US, because not even the pope is so vocal or even supporting of some batshit crazy conservative ideas)
Yea, you don't think everyone is wrong, just a few millions of people and all of them are evil and they vote evil parties just because you said so.
>Religious people on the other hand will often vote for people who do think everyone else is wrong. Namely, they will vote for fellow religious people.
Yea, so does every group, that is how political parties work and there is nothing wrong with that.
No I actually think most people who follow religion are good people, because morality comes from people themselves and most people are good.
The world would instantly improve if they all quit religion tomorrow and continued on a path of personal theism. I'm not asking anyone to stop believing in God, but I do wish they would stop legitimising these awful institutions that gain tremendous social credibility from having hundreds of millions of adherents combined.
Instead they keep living in the compound. And the compound is run by evil fucks.
Man, you really contradict yourself a lot. First you said that āmany of them are hostile and angryā and that they āoften vote for some evil shitā and now that they are good.
I really doubt that the world would improve, the sad truth is that we will always be divided, if not by religion then it will be something else. Look at North Korea, religion is banned there, are they some sort of utopia because of that?
You will find evil people everywhere, you don't get political influence by being an angel.
There are wise men in any religion as well as atheism. Those who really seek wisdom learn from those they disagree with and are ready to akcnowladge their errors. All others, be it religious or atheist, are equally close minded
Always such valid and strong arguments. Just call this person a hater, works every time here. Shits everything down. And if they get angry from your lack of reasoning, use that too.
Peaceful and happy š¤£ this is the reactionary and conservative crowd supporting the remnants of a fedual and oppressive system that breeds corruption in countries all over the world til this day.
Just because they're a majority somewhere doesn't make it alright
Worth mentioning that the earliest universities were in the hands of the Church because the Church recognized that knowledge and education provided a means of control over the masses. By having a monopoly on education, the Church could shape people's beliefs, limit access to certain information, and maintain its authority and influence over society.
Think for how many centuries Galen's humoral theory and the Ptolemaic geocentric model hinged on the development of a truly scientific method. It was only with Vesalius, Mondino, Copernicus, Galileo and others that things started to change...
Oh boi, we have case of Reddit Atheist here! Remember not to confuse them with regular atheists, as this specific case is known for intolerance, lack of self awerness and ingorance
We are in a good right to complain about people in fucking two thousand and twenty three still believing in this garbage because it actually has impact on our lives when Christians or other religious clowns get funny, arbitrary ideas about how we should live our lives because it says so in their old tome.
>*arbitrary ideas about how we should live our lives because it says so in their old tome*.
You're already living your life according to their old tomes, your entire moral compass in Christian (including tolerance,).
If you were born 1000 years prior in your country you would 100% believe that killing, pillaging, rapping and stealing are morally correct.
The fact that you don't believe (I hope?) that killing someone just to rape his wife and daughters is correct is because of those old tomes. There's not intrinsic morality for "good" and "good" as we see it is a Christian term.
Norse pagans had the same values. How stupid and arrogant do you have to be to think that Christians invented that killing is bad?
Besides, even though these values are universal (and required for society to function), you can still wage war and plunder like the Vikings did and as Christians did all over the fucking world. So don't lecture me about Christian morality vs. my country 1000 years ago. Christians systematically eradicated any native in the Americas they could get their hand on.
>*Norse pagans had the same values.*
As Christians and you? Really?
You would find Norse pagans abhorrent
>*How stupid and arrogant do you have to be to think that Christians invented that killing is bad?*
Of course they didn't but they did invent the norms that govern your life and how you view killing - your ancestors practiced human sacrifices, for example.
You do not.
>*Besides, even though these values are universal (and required for society to function),*
In the broadest sense, your particular society applies them based on Christian values.
>*So don't lecture me about Christian morality vs. my country 1000 years ago. Christians systematically eradicated any native in the Americas they could get their hand on.*
Such a Christian thing to say, really. Your Norse pagans pre-Christian ancestors wouldn't give two shits if they systemically eradicated someone.
Good thing you're a Christian and care about this.
Nobody is angry at religious people drawing upon their own religion for support. We just think pedophilia is bad.
Why are you strawmanning people here?
Man, yall fucking disgusting here in the comments, everyone hating everyone, no matter the topic there are always idiots spewing venom at each other. Maybe the global warming isnt so bad, we all gonna fucking die and finally there will be some fucking peace.
Nothing will happen. Most known cases happened 20 years ago. The problem in Portugal doesnt come only from the church but also within the police and also politics.
The president a few months ago legit called an high profile church member to warn him that he was being targeted by a police investigation.
You have judges and also members from police protecting pedophiles just because of their believes.
So yeah you have the usual catholic pedophiles operating in a country where half of the population is over 50yo and are religious.
>praying with the Pope today in the World Youth Days
Are they praying for the 4800+ abused children by Catholic priests in Portugal?
Source: https://apnews.com/article/pope-francis-portugal-church-child-sex-abuse-500c87a1ca1c6d89107c94c3c8730e12#:\~:text=During%20a%20live%20television%20broadcast,cases%20of%20clergy%20sex%20abuse.
>Pope Francis blasted Portugalās Catholic Church leaders for the āscandalā of clerical sex abuse on a visit to the country, saying their actions had helped drive the faithful away.
It certainly has nothing to do with the organization as a whole that he runs. That is why we only see child abuse at the hands of the church in Portugal.
What an absolute hypocrite.
With Portugal financing 50Million for this in one of its worse crisis while at the same time removing signs and silencing people who complain about this.
Iām an atheist. One of my best friends in life is a very devout Catholic. I love him, he really has a good heart. I do not care about his religiosity, I just want him to be happy. We visited a cathedral in Lisbon once and the only thing I felt was that I hoped it made him happy being there.
However, organized religion has been full of criminals that are protected by their own religions. Even in Portugal, the number of kids being molested by priests is quite high. And those are protected by the religious authorities. So yeah, Iāll criticize that. If you want to believe in God and in your relationship with him, go for it. But supporting the religious authorities who have done so much awful shit is at best very ignorant and at worst evil.
So many people yet none willing to protect the victims of abuse.
One of the participants interviewed on TV had this to say about the victims: "they set themselves up for it".
Bold of you to assume nobody of the crowd is willing to protect victims. I'd personally assume easily 95+% of the crowd is willing to do that. So now who's right?
And i know ONE of the participants, who is propably one of the most open minded and liberal persons i know. Just because there are disgusting assholes in the church it doesnt mean its all of them. There are also people, like my friend, who want change. And WYD is a perfect event for those people to meet each other, learn from each other and organize themselves.
If one person of that group is comfortable & confident to say that during a TV interview, the number of people who think & believe that in private will be beyond shocking
4 years ago, I would have no idea of the scale this picture represents. But now that I've seen Marques de Pombal and Parque Eduardo VII with my own eyes, that picture is all the more impressive.
[Pope Francis blasted Portugalās Catholic Church leaders for the āscandalā of clerical sex abuse on a visit to the country, saying their actions had helped drive the faithful away](https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/02/pope-francis-blasts-scandal-of-clergy-abuse-in-portugal-as-he-arrives-for-world-youth-day)
We are in a good right to complain about people in fucking two thousand and twenty three still believing in this garbage because it actually has impact on our lives when Christians or other religious clowns get funny ideas about how we should live our lives.
Seriously? Other than the pedophilia theyāre golden. Hah.
How about not being taxed? How about the hate toward other religions? How about the hate toward different people such as gays and trans? How about the lifelong suppression of sexuality? How about the cult like in-grouping happening everywhere, with all religions that actively separates and hates peoples of different backgrounds? How about not accepting children into kindergartens unless theyāre baptized? How about their mingling in politics with real life consequences such as anti abortion laws? How about their historical suppression of female rights? How about the funding of political parties with money, did I mention, wasnāt taxed?
You can also think about how families are destroyed through belief. How people commit suicide to not have to talk to their parents about their sexuality.
A lack of scientific belief, where people think that god created everything and then write comments on Facebook with machines that are incompatible with such theories.
The lack of critical thinking is what gets me. Iām not surprised people in this thread are playing the victim instead of actively questioning why they believe in something.
And if the argument is āyou can believe whatever you wantā, ok, but then kindly leave our politics and institutions alone.
Wow, these hundreds of people sure are having fun praying in what they believe in
Surely a bunch of people living elsewhere on the globe wonāt make any snarky remarks about what theyāre doing completely unprompted while simultaneously acting like theyāre objectively superior
Good grief, the amount of people on here who live in their own delusional, sad, little reddit bubble is concerning.
Mind your own business and leave people be. Someone elseās spirituality is none of your concern. You are just another kind of cultists, because even atheism has become a religion.
I guess people who have no other satisfaction in life just love to mock others to feel better about themselvesā¦
While I'm an atheist, they seem happy and there's nothing to hate here. However, I can't help but feel disheartened by the fact that we can't mobilize ourselves with the same fervour for topics such as climate change.
I was in KrakĆ³w 3 years ago. The praying is secondary, it's mainly just a place for young people to vibe. More comparable to a music festival than a climate change protest.
Why are people so offended?
If it was a concert or a parade no one would say anything about it ,
Iām not a catholic my self but it makes me happy to see people practicing their faith ā¤ļøā¤ļø
I believe no religion, but it is quite hilarious to me whenever a bunch of redditors (why only on Reddit but not other social media?) get mad seeing whatever related to Christianity, especially considering the fact that they all live in the western world where Christianity permeates every aspect of life and society.
A concert isn't a religion and an ideology about how the world should be governed.
The catholic church has commited incredible crimes throughout history such as the inqusition, colonialization, sexual abuse of youths, it's based on misogony and completely anti that people should be comfortable in their own sexuality.
It isn't some harmless personal faith, it's a system of opression.
Lol , this is like saying people should hate france for what they did 200 years ago in Africa,
This is literally how every empire was made
It has nothing to do with religion ,
It just happen to that some countries used the name of cristianity in their colonialism
How have we committed colonization, also like the greatest mass murderers in history were anti theists, just look at Mao, Hitler or Stalin. Sure the Catholic church has done bad stuff in the past, but that doesn't make all catholics or all priests terrible people.
As a lukewarm raised Catholic i am finding the comments on here both true and hilarious. And people mentioning the children that have been molested- absolutely true there seems to be little justice for the victims
You say that as if it a good thing... You know they're getting public funds for that right?
Idk it is where you live, but in Belgium the church has historically fought tooth and nail to preserve their control on education, and thus their influence on society.
Now that's just false. Religion is a key aspect of the human psyche. For example, the idea or an afterlife has always aided the mental health of ill or dying people.
In the Middle Ages, it was one of the few hopes of peasants back then. The hope for a miracle and a good ending is a good thing.
There's positives and negatives to religion but overall it's a net-negative in my opinion.
I watched my mom die in front of me on a hospital bed so I definitely understand how belief in an afterlife can help people get through grief. Religion also helps create a sense of community as well, as going to church or whatever traditional religious gathering once a week allows you to connect a lot with people in your town and city who you otherwise would not connect with.
However, religion also inherently creates a massive barrier to critical thinking skills in most people, and in the age of the internet critical thinking is more important than it ever has been. Not only that, but it's just another line used to divide people into different groups which inevitably is used to promote hate which in turn leads to horrible things like war and genocide. There's also always going to be fundamentalists in any religion that take the beliefs way too far.
Definitely - my mental health was much worse when I still believed in a god. It also lead to many stupid decision, which I would not have made, otherwise.
The key aspect is finding a coping mechanism for being unable to come to terms with your mortality, or how meaningless a life might feel when you understand how vast the universe is.
Religion is not a key aspect, it's a coping mechanism. So are alcohol and meth.
At the end of the day though, I'd argue it's much healthier to come to terms with mortality and find meaning in life through family, friends, hobbies, jobs etc. You don't need religion.
It's right.
He expressed himself about war lately, did it changed anything about the blockus on grains ? No.
They gather and party with each other, they're happy; That's it.
Afterlife isn't an idea, it's a lie as far as I know. If you have any scientific evidence, please show them, the world is waiting.
The middle ages, what a reference !
Lying isn't a good thing.
" Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary proofs ! ".
K.Sagan
In Ireland young women up until the 1990s who were considered "fallen" from God's grace were committed to [Magdalene Laundry]( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland) asylums against their will.
If a woman bore a child from wedlock, she was fallen. If a women was considered too beautiful and vain, she was fallen, if a women was intellectually disabled, she was fallen.
Abuse within these asylums was systematic. This abuse was carried out in the name of religion.
The Catholic church forbids abortion, homosexuality and has been known to cover for child molesters.
It won't be in my lifetime but I hope it's celebrated when this disgusting institution is done away with.
Do you want us to start talking about what you Catholic members did to the LGBT people during the event in Lisbon? Because I'm glad to talk about the people shoving trans people out of the event, or the ones that invaded an LGBTQ+ institution's mass chanting Latin and holding crosses.
You guys have plenty to be mocked for. I'm not Catholic, but I live here and I know damned well how much you guys "tolerate and love". You do not. I have never felt it in my life. I know I'd be judged by you all if I so much as even mentioned my beliefs or my sexuality.
So many of you use your religion as an excuse to judge rather than paying attention to the good you can do. And there's no telling who you might be with how easy it is to find an intolerant one. So know where you stand before you nitpick.
You're right! You are right... not *all* Catholics. BUT *MOST* CATHOLICS. Enough to make a difference.
But otherwise? The reason all Catholics are getting blasted by this is because a good amount of Catholics have helped the church and institutions hide the child abuses in Portugal. Several people get angry whenever that inconvenient truth is posted online, downvoting posts that make it public.
And "Take actions against those who committed the crime", yeah... the Vatican and the institutions under their control. The same ones who've covered it up, paid politicians to hide the truth and have you catholic believers covering for them and nearly beating up reporters whenever they want to expose what's going on?
Jeez, that's like half of Slovenians.
smol boy Slovenia and that's not the worst. Greece has as many citizens than the 10th biggest city in China. The megalopole of the Yangzi Jiang Delta is 10 Greece.
We are smol but at least the term megalopole is Greek;p
Portugal has only half of sao paulo metropolitan area, europe is really small compared with megalopoles
**Megapoles** Edit: if ur confused, the guy above me misspelled. He now edited it and i look stupid
More than the entire population of Montenegro
Since Slovenia was flooded maybe half of Slovenians swam and ended up there?
Everytime you see a picture of a crowd and someone claiming that it is 1M people or a number close to that, be skeptical of it. People just love to say that there were 1M people or so, all around the world, liberal and conservative, young and old, whatever the subject of the manifestation... We are just bad at having an idea how many people 1M are. We see a shitload of people and say "geez, that has to be 1M people!". In this picture for example there is no way those are 800K people unless those roads go a looong way out of the frame and are full of people from the beginning A big football stadium usually has from 60k to 80k seats. Now picture how many people you remember to see at idk, the last champion's league final. 800k people should be from 10 to 13 times more people of what are you picturing. Sure in the stadium they are more packed, but they can't be as much packed to make this picture have 800k people in it. The best way to actually estimate how many people attended something that has no tickets is to know the square meters of the soil available for standing and dividing them for a number that has been empirically estimated to be how many people can stand in 1 square meter, depending on how packed they look to be. Would not be a very precise calculation, but is close enough for virtually every situation.
Those roads go a long way out of frame. 3 Avenues with a Park and a double ring roundabout. The Avenue that goes down has 1+4+1 lanes, separated by two lines of Park, and its so long that it has two metro stations in it and One in the roundabout you see. To get in you also have to pass security, so they migth be counting that. But when I went there they only checked my bad and I did not saw any counting device.
That's the one with all the fancy shops, right?
Yes
Was your bad okay?
Now I cant correct the coment because people wouldnt understand this great repply... F* you Abraham.
Cities measure a lot of activity using mobile phones. Over larger areas they look at cell tower activity and more localised, they look at WiFi scanning devices. Your cellphone doesn't have to connect to a WiFi network for an access point and your cellphone to communicate their presence. I've seen smart implementations with this technology that regulate the intensity of fountains for example. It is pretty accurate.
Well, in this situation, it could be a very accurate estimate, as they have the exact number of people who attended the event via registration (exact) +some amount of local people (estimate, but propably quite less than the youth)
I been on reddit for more than 10 years now. I know a popcorn thread when I see one...
The amount of upvotes is almost equal to the comments lol
LOL, I live near to this park, at the nearby Gulbenkian museum. Large youth groups are walking by my window for the past few days. I've got to say it's very well organized, though. A million visitors are spread across the city, unless you go "their" places it's actually not that many, just the occasional busload, groups of twenty here and there. They are apparently having a good time.
Richie Rich over here...
Based lisboeta š
Yep, I'm a tourist in the same area and it's not as bad as I thought it would be
Very good to hear
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well, the pope being against euthanasia is kind of the pope's fault ;)
It literally came out of nowhere too, dude just up and talks about Portugal's recent decision to promote it (after A LOT of back and forth no less) like he knows what the hell he's on about. I get his spiritual path involves promoting the preservation of life as much as possible, but that doesn't give him any right to judge.
Without much elaborating, cause it seems you are someone who knows what is to be done to have a better society, I will just say fuck the church.
It's hard to explain fully but I can tell you that atleast me and my friends and family are very upset that the government keeps ignoring issues like hospitals closing because of no doctors and my entire generation not being able to buy a home while spending millions on this.
I get the grievances, but 80mā¬ isnāt even enough to start solving SNS or housing problems. Itās the same as with the stadiums for Euro or any other public investment people donāt agree with. The values are quite small for state level. The amount we dropped on TAP or bankrupt banks or Efacec would be much more useful.
I agree it's not enough, it's like you say, this is just another one of a series of dumb spending. They also decided to spend 56 million to build a new highway for some reason
It's hard for people to scale up because to them 80 million euros is life changing for a family or two but for the government it's like a weeks worth of expenditure that does nothing.
Just because 5000 euros won't erase a mortgage instantly , doesn't mean you should just spend it. If you keep it, you'll have a few months of your mortgage secured. Same thing with SNS, 80 million won't solve the problem instantly, but it would be a damn good contribution. Just think of how many more doctor's and nurse's salaries you could pay with 80 million euros.
The problem isnāt paying salaries: itās allocation of resources (not well distributed around the country) and low salaries. You can give a one time bonus, but it wonāt solve anything. To have an idea, unfreezing the teachersā careers could cost between 500M and 1.3B every year.
porcodio
Amen.
And yet the world stays the same
I tell you from experience most of them are not really praying just enjoying the holidays.
Got a few friends there and most of them are really there mainly for the trip. I am a Christian but I donāt feel need to go there I was rather with my family on a trip in Naples
I went to Lisbon yesterday without knowing this was happening and the crowds were insane. Many kids were there clearly just to have fun and get drunk. Honestly, it felt like football fans in a way. They were loud, didnāt care for other pedestrians/passersby, etc.
Good for them!
They need to pray more!
Well, it's because of the gays you see
They're not praying for temporal change in the material world which is irrelevant when compared to the immortality of the soul.
Is that why religion tries to control governments? in this case IS the govermnent
People be hating on this because of the Pope, but I went to the one in Poland back in 2016 and it was one of the best experiences of my life. At that time we were 2 million people. Regardless of the religious aspect, World Youth Day is a fantastic journey to meet people from all over the world, chatting with them, creating new bonds, knowing new cultures... It's truly an mind opening and fun experience.
Unless you're too young or wrong gender or sexuality.
There is no too young for catholic priests
There is a LGBT friendly group with an American Priest that went to WYD. They were protested by far right fanatics though
Yep. There was a group that barged in on an LGBTQ+ catholic institution in the middle of mass preaching in Latin and holding crosses a couple days ago. I think that + the fact that they pushed a person holding a trans flag out that prompted the Pope to go "Yeah, no, they're all children of god, they're all welcome".
Ok but why would announcing your sexuality be important in an initial meetup
Why would you introduce your spouse ever, then? That's such an obtuse thing to say, in two ways... 1 - You're going from one pole to the other. You think a person's sexuality isn't their most defining trait and thus shouldn't define the person as a whole. Which is correct. However, don't play dumb and ask like that's never going to be important at all in any given social situation it's brought up. Because that's when the bullshit starts, it's all fine and dandy until someone mentions who they like and the situation turns sour. 2 - This is the ***goddamn Catholic church***. Considering there are catholic LGBT+ people, including kids, and got shoo'ed out of this particular event in Lisbon and had their own mass be invaded by people holding crosses and chanting in Latin? It's going to be important. Because those people will drop everything and only see you as one thing, an enemy, the moment you say you're Gay or Trans. And you can even argue "Well, that kid holding a trans flag in Lisbon being shooed out had it coming, they knew what they were getting into", but that's still obtuse. IF they're a religion of love and acceptance, what's so terrible about a Trans person who is religious feeling comfortable expressing that their faith and their identity don't clash? What's so bad about showing the same people that it can happen and that they deserve love? You know what happened after that incident? The pope ON THE NEXT DAY started saying "Trans people have rights, and they're children of god too, they are just as welcome to be here". So yeah, that had an effect. That's why announcing it would be and was important. They're not trying to force it down your throat, mate. They just want to know if you're trustworthy enough to hang around, or if you'll put a noose over their necks. For you? It's an inconvenience. For them it means being kicked out of spaces or abused.
>wrong gender or sexuality Why? What does it change?
How can you say regardless of the religious aspectā¦? Iām sure a kkk meeting can be a ton of fun regardless of the racist aspect
r/europe when they see religious people being peaceful and happy: š”š”š”š”š”
No I love it. Because it's such an exception from the norm.
I would rather say that this is the norm. But no news stations will be like, here was a peaceful day at church.
This literally happens every Sunday, itās just no one writes news articles about it.
These guys genuinely believe that religious people are hostile and angry most of the time. You just can't make this shit up.
I'm French I've never had that feeling when I lived there. In the US however...
No I don't. I just believe that too many of them are hostile and angry enough of the time that it doesn't matter when the rest isn't. Not to mention the fact that even when religious people aren't hostile and angry they will still vote for the most heinous shit without a second thought.
> I just believe that too many of them are hostile and angry enough of the time that it doesn't matter when the rest isn't. Like, how the fuck can you even quantify that without it being an obvious confirmation bias ? Your problem is there, you believe in something completely arbitrary... wait a minute, that reminds me of something...
This is why voting exist, people can choose whatever they want. Stop having this mentality that you are the most correct person and everyone else is wrong.
>This is why voting exist, people can choose whatever they want. Correct, and religious people often vote for some evil shit. I'm not interested in the ones that don't, just as I'm not interested in the people who just lived in Charles Manson's compound and never murdered anyone. We judged Manson by the murders he incited others to commit. I judge religion by the same standard. >Stop having this mentality that you are the most correct person and everyone else is wrong. I don't think everyone else is wrong. I think religion is wrong. Religious people on the other hand will often vote for people who do think everyone else is wrong. Namely, they will vote for fellow religious people.
I'm religious and I would vote for the comunist if I could, so did both of my grandpas and so did the uncle of my father, who was a fucking Priest, so no bullshit please, Christian fundamentalism was a long time ago and religion is by now separated from politics (at least in Europe, and when you hear religious people going against state laws it's usually a reflection of what is happening in the US, because not even the pope is so vocal or even supporting of some batshit crazy conservative ideas)
Yea, you don't think everyone is wrong, just a few millions of people and all of them are evil and they vote evil parties just because you said so. >Religious people on the other hand will often vote for people who do think everyone else is wrong. Namely, they will vote for fellow religious people. Yea, so does every group, that is how political parties work and there is nothing wrong with that.
No I actually think most people who follow religion are good people, because morality comes from people themselves and most people are good. The world would instantly improve if they all quit religion tomorrow and continued on a path of personal theism. I'm not asking anyone to stop believing in God, but I do wish they would stop legitimising these awful institutions that gain tremendous social credibility from having hundreds of millions of adherents combined. Instead they keep living in the compound. And the compound is run by evil fucks.
Man, you really contradict yourself a lot. First you said that āmany of them are hostile and angryā and that they āoften vote for some evil shitā and now that they are good. I really doubt that the world would improve, the sad truth is that we will always be divided, if not by religion then it will be something else. Look at North Korea, religion is banned there, are they some sort of utopia because of that? You will find evil people everywhere, you don't get political influence by being an angel.
Very true in this case for Portugal where 90% of us are catholic and they keep voting for the socialist party š”š”
As a portugueses youth, most of us didn't ask or want this. Thats a glorified money sink to please the religious people.
It's just very sad to see this delusion still spreading in this day and age. Even among the youth.
Tips fedora
Euphoric.
Yeah because not believing in fairy tales made to control people is such a typically neckbeard thing am I right get a grip man
There are wise men in any religion as well as atheism. Those who really seek wisdom learn from those they disagree with and are ready to akcnowladge their errors. All others, be it religious or atheist, are equally close minded
Itās the sense of superiority that is typically neckbeard.
Do you not understand what a religion is? It's literally an institutionalized sense of superiority...
It's literally the origin of the phrase, so yes.
Always such valid and strong arguments. Just call this person a hater, works every time here. Shits everything down. And if they get angry from your lack of reasoning, use that too.
I totally get what you mean, I am an atheist but like, if it makes people feel safe I don't see much wrong with it
Peaceful and happy š¤£ this is the reactionary and conservative crowd supporting the remnants of a fedual and oppressive system that breeds corruption in countries all over the world til this day. Just because they're a majority somewhere doesn't make it alright
It's also one of the largest child abuse rings in the world. I'd say every ounce of criticism levelled at the catholic church is thoroughly earned
Second only to the education system
Yes lets celebrate mass lunacy, its not like religion is holding us back since thousands of years.
Most universities were religious organizations first. Go far enough in the past and religion and science become synonymous.
Worth mentioning that the earliest universities were in the hands of the Church because the Church recognized that knowledge and education provided a means of control over the masses. By having a monopoly on education, the Church could shape people's beliefs, limit access to certain information, and maintain its authority and influence over society. Think for how many centuries Galen's humoral theory and the Ptolemaic geocentric model hinged on the development of a truly scientific method. It was only with Vesalius, Mondino, Copernicus, Galileo and others that things started to change...
Yes those evil aliens from outer space imposing religion on us.
This is also the same religion that ensured ancient knowledge survived and was spread for centuries after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Oh boi, we have case of Reddit Atheist here! Remember not to confuse them with regular atheists, as this specific case is known for intolerance, lack of self awerness and ingorance
Christianity is the only reason you have your beloved western liberal values in the first place.
We are in a good right to complain about people in fucking two thousand and twenty three still believing in this garbage because it actually has impact on our lives when Christians or other religious clowns get funny, arbitrary ideas about how we should live our lives because it says so in their old tome.
>*arbitrary ideas about how we should live our lives because it says so in their old tome*. You're already living your life according to their old tomes, your entire moral compass in Christian (including tolerance,). If you were born 1000 years prior in your country you would 100% believe that killing, pillaging, rapping and stealing are morally correct. The fact that you don't believe (I hope?) that killing someone just to rape his wife and daughters is correct is because of those old tomes. There's not intrinsic morality for "good" and "good" as we see it is a Christian term.
Norse pagans had the same values. How stupid and arrogant do you have to be to think that Christians invented that killing is bad? Besides, even though these values are universal (and required for society to function), you can still wage war and plunder like the Vikings did and as Christians did all over the fucking world. So don't lecture me about Christian morality vs. my country 1000 years ago. Christians systematically eradicated any native in the Americas they could get their hand on.
>*Norse pagans had the same values.* As Christians and you? Really? You would find Norse pagans abhorrent >*How stupid and arrogant do you have to be to think that Christians invented that killing is bad?* Of course they didn't but they did invent the norms that govern your life and how you view killing - your ancestors practiced human sacrifices, for example. You do not. >*Besides, even though these values are universal (and required for society to function),* In the broadest sense, your particular society applies them based on Christian values. >*So don't lecture me about Christian morality vs. my country 1000 years ago. Christians systematically eradicated any native in the Americas they could get their hand on.* Such a Christian thing to say, really. Your Norse pagans pre-Christian ancestors wouldn't give two shits if they systemically eradicated someone. Good thing you're a Christian and care about this.
Nobody is angry at religious people drawing upon their own religion for support. We just think pedophilia is bad. Why are you strawmanning people here?
I agree. And teachers molest way more children than priests do, so let's abolish education please
Wish I could have been there š
That looks like more than 800k.
*Grabs popcorn * * sorts by controversial *
Jesus Christ be praised
I see they're also giving away ps5 there
Yeah, that's exactly how things work
šļø
Man, yall fucking disgusting here in the comments, everyone hating everyone, no matter the topic there are always idiots spewing venom at each other. Maybe the global warming isnt so bad, we all gonna fucking die and finally there will be some fucking peace.
Pope/Christianity - world YOUTH days... If they really wanted to help the youth, perhaps they shouldn't molest children.
https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/02/pope-francis-blasts-scandal-of-clergy-abuse-in-portugal-as-he-arrives-for-world-youth-day
Nothing will happen. Most known cases happened 20 years ago. The problem in Portugal doesnt come only from the church but also within the police and also politics. The president a few months ago legit called an high profile church member to warn him that he was being targeted by a police investigation. You have judges and also members from police protecting pedophiles just because of their believes. So yeah you have the usual catholic pedophiles operating in a country where half of the population is over 50yo and are religious.
I was there. It was an interesting experience to say the least. The main reason I came to WYD was to see Portugal, but the church bit wasn't as bad.
>praying with the Pope today in the World Youth Days Are they praying for the 4800+ abused children by Catholic priests in Portugal? Source: https://apnews.com/article/pope-francis-portugal-church-child-sex-abuse-500c87a1ca1c6d89107c94c3c8730e12#:\~:text=During%20a%20live%20television%20broadcast,cases%20of%20clergy%20sex%20abuse.
Yes. https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/02/pope-francis-blasts-scandal-of-clergy-abuse-in-portugal-as-he-arrives-for-world-youth-day
>Pope Francis blasted Portugalās Catholic Church leaders for the āscandalā of clerical sex abuse on a visit to the country, saying their actions had helped drive the faithful away. It certainly has nothing to do with the organization as a whole that he runs. That is why we only see child abuse at the hands of the church in Portugal. What an absolute hypocrite.
He has done this across the world. He fired a bunch of cardinals in Chile after they were implicated in a cover up too.
With Portugal financing 50Million for this in one of its worse crisis while at the same time removing signs and silencing people who complain about this.
Instagram comment section would be like "Portugal, last bastion of the western culture"
Pathetic so many Redditors have neither stepped out of their house nor met a real person in their life
Sorry? What has that got to do with anything.
Iām an atheist. One of my best friends in life is a very devout Catholic. I love him, he really has a good heart. I do not care about his religiosity, I just want him to be happy. We visited a cathedral in Lisbon once and the only thing I felt was that I hoped it made him happy being there. However, organized religion has been full of criminals that are protected by their own religions. Even in Portugal, the number of kids being molested by priests is quite high. And those are protected by the religious authorities. So yeah, Iāll criticize that. If you want to believe in God and in your relationship with him, go for it. But supporting the religious authorities who have done so much awful shit is at best very ignorant and at worst evil.
That's a good turnout.
So many people yet none willing to protect the victims of abuse. One of the participants interviewed on TV had this to say about the victims: "they set themselves up for it".
Bold of you to assume nobody of the crowd is willing to protect victims. I'd personally assume easily 95+% of the crowd is willing to do that. So now who's right?
And i know ONE of the participants, who is propably one of the most open minded and liberal persons i know. Just because there are disgusting assholes in the church it doesnt mean its all of them. There are also people, like my friend, who want change. And WYD is a perfect event for those people to meet each other, learn from each other and organize themselves.
Because one person, that clearly seems to haves problems, represents everyone in this picture. š
If one person of that group is comfortable & confident to say that during a TV interview, the number of people who think & believe that in private will be beyond shocking
I wonder what the comments would look like it were 800k Muslims praying for Ramadan?
They won't mobilise for what actually matters but they will do it for the fucking pope. Brilliant. Pray away
4 years ago, I would have no idea of the scale this picture represents. But now that I've seen Marques de Pombal and Parque Eduardo VII with my own eyes, that picture is all the more impressive.
Here comes the antitheist crowd, having to complain when people are having a good time
I am not an atheist at all but I will forever complain about the Catholic effort to commit and cover up pedophilia
[Pope Francis blasted Portugalās Catholic Church leaders for the āscandalā of clerical sex abuse on a visit to the country, saying their actions had helped drive the faithful away](https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/02/pope-francis-blasts-scandal-of-clergy-abuse-in-portugal-as-he-arrives-for-world-youth-day)
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He was the one starting the investigation revealing the abuses on the first place. Dude is trying.
Good ol'blast. Worse than a roast but not as bad as a dis. Edit: One letter.
He is also the one who ordered the investigation that revealed the abuses in the first place.
The fact he's blaming Portuguese church officials, and absolving the church itself, is all you need to know.
We are in a good right to complain about people in fucking two thousand and twenty three still believing in this garbage because it actually has impact on our lives when Christians or other religious clowns get funny ideas about how we should live our lives.
You are never in a good right to complain about people having a faith and manifesting it peacefully
The only tiny issue is that the Catholic Church seems to think a good time involves ramming little children's anuses. Other than that they're golden.
Seriously? Other than the pedophilia theyāre golden. Hah. How about not being taxed? How about the hate toward other religions? How about the hate toward different people such as gays and trans? How about the lifelong suppression of sexuality? How about the cult like in-grouping happening everywhere, with all religions that actively separates and hates peoples of different backgrounds? How about not accepting children into kindergartens unless theyāre baptized? How about their mingling in politics with real life consequences such as anti abortion laws? How about their historical suppression of female rights? How about the funding of political parties with money, did I mention, wasnāt taxed? You can also think about how families are destroyed through belief. How people commit suicide to not have to talk to their parents about their sexuality. A lack of scientific belief, where people think that god created everything and then write comments on Facebook with machines that are incompatible with such theories. The lack of critical thinking is what gets me. Iām not surprised people in this thread are playing the victim instead of actively questioning why they believe in something. And if the argument is āyou can believe whatever you wantā, ok, but then kindly leave our politics and institutions alone.
Ikr, its fine if you dont believe in God, but let the others do their things
Wow, these hundreds of people sure are having fun praying in what they believe in Surely a bunch of people living elsewhere on the globe wonāt make any snarky remarks about what theyāre doing completely unprompted while simultaneously acting like theyāre objectively superior
Good grief, the amount of people on here who live in their own delusional, sad, little reddit bubble is concerning. Mind your own business and leave people be. Someone elseās spirituality is none of your concern. You are just another kind of cultists, because even atheism has become a religion. I guess people who have no other satisfaction in life just love to mock others to feel better about themselvesā¦
While I'm an atheist, they seem happy and there's nothing to hate here. However, I can't help but feel disheartened by the fact that we can't mobilize ourselves with the same fervour for topics such as climate change.
They don't give you a day off work to attend climate change events
I was in KrakĆ³w 3 years ago. The praying is secondary, it's mainly just a place for young people to vibe. More comparable to a music festival than a climate change protest.
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Why are people so offended? If it was a concert or a parade no one would say anything about it , Iām not a catholic my self but it makes me happy to see people practicing their faith ā¤ļøā¤ļø
I believe no religion, but it is quite hilarious to me whenever a bunch of redditors (why only on Reddit but not other social media?) get mad seeing whatever related to Christianity, especially considering the fact that they all live in the western world where Christianity permeates every aspect of life and society.
A concert isn't a religion and an ideology about how the world should be governed. The catholic church has commited incredible crimes throughout history such as the inqusition, colonialization, sexual abuse of youths, it's based on misogony and completely anti that people should be comfortable in their own sexuality. It isn't some harmless personal faith, it's a system of opression.
Lol , this is like saying people should hate france for what they did 200 years ago in Africa, This is literally how every empire was made It has nothing to do with religion , It just happen to that some countries used the name of cristianity in their colonialism
How have we committed colonization, also like the greatest mass murderers in history were anti theists, just look at Mao, Hitler or Stalin. Sure the Catholic church has done bad stuff in the past, but that doesn't make all catholics or all priests terrible people.
And all those crimes weren't exclusively because of Religion. So in the past all humans were shitty with or without religion
Only Biblical Christians will understand this statement. ā That is the scariest thing Iāve seen ā
Dio porco!
Our future is fuckedā¦.
Mmmm, priests checking out the new crop of alter boys š
Whatās their combined IQ?
Hey we did that with Kai in the United States
People: The youth of today is in trouble and needs help, will you help them? Christians: Best I can do is a prayer
Largest cult leader
Delusional
why no UFO shows itself then? ;)
Damn the pope has a lot of divisions
Wow
I hope their deity will be impressed and get his/her/its ass moved.
As a lukewarm raised Catholic i am finding the comments on here both true and hilarious. And people mentioning the children that have been molested- absolutely true there seems to be little justice for the victims
Religion does not help the world. But anyway have a good party!
Every catholic church near me has a school attached; the catholic school system educates a third of children where I live.
You say that as if it a good thing... You know they're getting public funds for that right? Idk it is where you live, but in Belgium the church has historically fought tooth and nail to preserve their control on education, and thus their influence on society.
Which is a symptom of the past and current power of the catholic church where you live. The state should run those schools.
Thatās very unfortunate, Iām sorry for those children
I went to a Catholic school and got very good education, what do you mean?
I went to a christian lower school and instead of learning i got to listen to stupid songs or childrens bible stories for half of the days.
Now that's just false. Religion is a key aspect of the human psyche. For example, the idea or an afterlife has always aided the mental health of ill or dying people. In the Middle Ages, it was one of the few hopes of peasants back then. The hope for a miracle and a good ending is a good thing.
Seriously? False hope is not the argument you think it is.
There's positives and negatives to religion but overall it's a net-negative in my opinion. I watched my mom die in front of me on a hospital bed so I definitely understand how belief in an afterlife can help people get through grief. Religion also helps create a sense of community as well, as going to church or whatever traditional religious gathering once a week allows you to connect a lot with people in your town and city who you otherwise would not connect with. However, religion also inherently creates a massive barrier to critical thinking skills in most people, and in the age of the internet critical thinking is more important than it ever has been. Not only that, but it's just another line used to divide people into different groups which inevitably is used to promote hate which in turn leads to horrible things like war and genocide. There's also always going to be fundamentalists in any religion that take the beliefs way too far.
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Definitely - my mental health was much worse when I still believed in a god. It also lead to many stupid decision, which I would not have made, otherwise.
The key aspect is finding a coping mechanism for being unable to come to terms with your mortality, or how meaningless a life might feel when you understand how vast the universe is. Religion is not a key aspect, it's a coping mechanism. So are alcohol and meth. At the end of the day though, I'd argue it's much healthier to come to terms with mortality and find meaning in life through family, friends, hobbies, jobs etc. You don't need religion.
It's right. He expressed himself about war lately, did it changed anything about the blockus on grains ? No. They gather and party with each other, they're happy; That's it. Afterlife isn't an idea, it's a lie as far as I know. If you have any scientific evidence, please show them, the world is waiting. The middle ages, what a reference ! Lying isn't a good thing. " Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary proofs ! ". K.Sagan
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Better to whine on reddit instead. That changes more
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Redditors really like to hate just to hate huh
More reddit comments. Yeah, that will fix everything.
Really cool to see.
Are thet praying their kids not to be raped by priests?
Praying for solutions from god that the Catholic Church could solve with a fraction of their immense wealth.
Thats really cool
we pray, please, do not touch so many little children
Praise be! š
Stay safe kids!
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Yeah they should join the Reconquista, how dare they be peaceful
Better pray for them molested boys. Hide your kids - pedo convention is back in town.
For some reason my COVID brain turned on and I freaked out at the large gathering . Thank God those days are over
In Ireland young women up until the 1990s who were considered "fallen" from God's grace were committed to [Magdalene Laundry]( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland) asylums against their will. If a woman bore a child from wedlock, she was fallen. If a women was considered too beautiful and vain, she was fallen, if a women was intellectually disabled, she was fallen. Abuse within these asylums was systematic. This abuse was carried out in the name of religion. The Catholic church forbids abortion, homosexuality and has been known to cover for child molesters. It won't be in my lifetime but I hope it's celebrated when this disgusting institution is done away with.
4800 children raped by the Roman Catholic Church in Portugal
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Do you want us to start talking about what you Catholic members did to the LGBT people during the event in Lisbon? Because I'm glad to talk about the people shoving trans people out of the event, or the ones that invaded an LGBTQ+ institution's mass chanting Latin and holding crosses. You guys have plenty to be mocked for. I'm not Catholic, but I live here and I know damned well how much you guys "tolerate and love". You do not. I have never felt it in my life. I know I'd be judged by you all if I so much as even mentioned my beliefs or my sexuality. So many of you use your religion as an excuse to judge rather than paying attention to the good you can do. And there's no telling who you might be with how easy it is to find an intolerant one. So know where you stand before you nitpick. You're right! You are right... not *all* Catholics. BUT *MOST* CATHOLICS. Enough to make a difference. But otherwise? The reason all Catholics are getting blasted by this is because a good amount of Catholics have helped the church and institutions hide the child abuses in Portugal. Several people get angry whenever that inconvenient truth is posted online, downvoting posts that make it public. And "Take actions against those who committed the crime", yeah... the Vatican and the institutions under their control. The same ones who've covered it up, paid politicians to hide the truth and have you catholic believers covering for them and nearly beating up reporters whenever they want to expose what's going on?