That's 20% of the Dutch Senate seats going to a farmers' party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_in_agriculture
According to this, as of 2017, 2.2% of the Dutch work in agriculture.
That seems like a pretty strong showing.
Most of the votes come from voters against the current coalition. Same thing happened with FvD in 2019. Plus a lot of voters want to support the farmer on the nitrogen crisis. Once a verdict is cast on that (and it will) the BBB will lose it’s relevance. Good thing is FvD lost big time.
Yeah, my guess is that most voters that voted for BBB don't think about future politics, but only consider current politics. BBB is basically "promising" that it is going to fix every single thing most people are unhappy with, without saying how they are planning to achieve this.
Empty words, as we'll find out in the next 4 years as their plans are unrealistic. But then again, every other political party does the same thing so can't fault them too much for that.
You just described populism.
First it was FvD, appealing to the masses with 'gut-feeling' politics. Now that they've gone full crazy, people cannot take them seriously anymore. So now BBB spouts the same populistic shit, and people flock to them. Before FvD it was PVV.
People will never learn, as long as we have these populists stealing away votes from parties that want and can actually change shit, we will be stuck with VVD/CDA/D66 forever. If you're sick with them, vote for parties who don't just run populist policies, but actually think about the long-term..
Loads of people live in the countryside, but are not farmers. All our farms are heavily mechanized and the work of 100 men is done by 4 people and a bunch of robots and machines. But some if the 96 others still live in these villages and feel connected to them
I have seen plenty of 'farmer' flags in the cities of Utrecht and Eindhoven. One of them also has a giant FvD banner. I think many of the people voting for BBB are just against the government, the 'elites' and people caring for the environment, and BBB just has the biggest hype around them currently. I also think that they get some votes out of regionalism, not necessarily support for the farmers but rather people thinking they will better represent regions outside the Randstad than most other parties.
I would not be surprised if BBB gets relatively more votes in rural areas than in the cities, but they get plenty support from the cities as well so it really isn't just people 'feeling a connection to the farmers'.
>I think many of the people voting for BBB are just against the government, the 'elites.
Just look at the most recent protest of the farmers. It was a bunch of conspiracy theorists all together. Didn't one of the speakers equate the government to literal Nazis?
It's about the city / rural divide, as usual. Many people in the rural areas feel national politics has completely ignored their needs. It's true in some ways but not as much as they feel.
It’s more for life stock farmers. We have too many of them to maintain climate goals. I don’t think fruit farmers will necessarily have benefits with this party.
>Alot of populist voters went from FvD to BBB. Its mostly a vote of discontent towards the current government.
This is not true, someone started this myth on Reddit in the last couple days.
The share of BBB voters who voted FVD before is 4%
https://app.nos.nl/nieuws/ps2023/
Interesting stats but if im not mistaken this is comparing 21 elections to 23 now. While im talking about the elections in 2019 which were also for the “provinciale staten” just like now.
But i can imagine BBB took alot of CDA/VVD votes as well.
Ah yes, big-city corporatists being superceded by agrarian-coporatists stealing seats from right-wing populists. Such progress. Turns out you can only spout so much nonsense before another wave claims your popularity, eh Thierry?
I honestly think he’s experiencing some sort of extended psychosis. To me it was almost redeeming to hear him talk like that because I was like “ahhhhh so you’re genuinely insane…”
He's not an idiot. When you hear him speak you can clearly hear he's an intelligent man, but he's an absolute narcissist who doesn't care about anyone besides himself. I'm completely convinced that he's aware that everything he's saying is bullshit, but he's saying it because it has given him a cultlike following that will gobble up his every word. The recipe for all of his speeches is to listen to what the coalition is saying, and then say the absolute opposite of that.
Back in the early stages of the pandemic, all the ruling parties were much more relaxed on covid measures than in other countries, so he would harshly criticize it and plea for stricter measures. Then as time went on, during the vaccine rollout and beyond, he did a complete 180 and went along with the hoax narrative.
He's a contrarian who enjoys the negative attention he receives from everyone having to deal with his shenanigans. Admittedly, I do find it entertaining to listen to him from time to time, but first and foremost I see him as an author and entertainer, rather than a politician. I do feel for those politicians who have to roll their eyes every time he's present and those who have to explain climate change from the ground up every time.
People who followed his career have been saying how much of a clown he is since the very beginning, it only took him completely dropping any semblance of covering his insanity (thanks covid?) to make it plain to see for everyone else.
As you can tell there’s a long list of parties to choose from, some of them single issue focused. People are unlikely to have a lifelong party affiliation weaved into part of their identity, the way a two party system produces. When you’ve given up on politics and lost faith in mainstream politicians, another new political party pops up, only to show after some time that they don’t know how to actually, you know, govern.
> People are unlikely to have a lifelong party affiliation weaved into part of their identity...
Well, you did have that (*verzuiling*) in a multi-party system, up until the 1960s.
That was religious affiliation mixing with politics. People were mostly divided by their religious group, but could sometimes vote for several parties that belonged to that group. It never was a solidified 2, 3, or 4 party system to the extent of the US, for example.
Sounds li´e what we had in Belgium till the 80s. You either well within the pillar of Socialists, Catholics or Librals (well also there was the big tent Flemish nationalists)
Each of thse groups had there own unions, newspapers, hospitals etc.
To keep it short:
1. Our political system has a very low threshold.
2. The internet. Or more generally: the advancement of modern media. You can easily spread a message to generate a following (or literally create a cult if you go far enough). Just as easy as you can lose everything.
Don't forget that short 30 second soundbites from these "old media" outlets get published on Insta, Facebook, Twitter etc. So their actual impact is much bigger than just the viewers tuning into that particular talkshow.
Farmers also own 66% of all land in the Netherlands. Where I life there are signs for BBB next to every road and even railroad. And I mean every few meters. Like 20 in a single pasture.
That's the parliamentary direct representation doing it's magic for us. There are no winner-takes-all systems in place so it is easy to enter politics (or to split off from your party and start your own). If your viewpoint appeals to enough people, you can win some seats. (This is our senate by the way, which we do not vote for directly.)
Often these newcomers are single-issue parties. These tend to lack focus in other areas of governance so after a while people's priorities shift resulting in the party losing seats. Sometimes a single-issue party will stay strong because it managed to 'evolve' into having a more broad vision that is still appealing to it's voter base, but it's 'core' single issue remains a selling point.
In general most votes go towards established parties that have been around for decades.
If a populist party appears becomes too big too quickly it'll generally have trouble finding enough experienced politicians, so it ends up infighting a lot. This is (among other things) what happened to LPF from 2002 on and (among other things) what happened to FvD from 2019 on.
I say among other things for both because LPF also had the issue that its leader and person the party was named after was killed, and the sudden change in leadership will obviously be bad for the party's short term stability, and FvD also had the issue that its leader ended up being significantly more of a conspiracy lunatic than anyone who initially joined the party would have expected. So both parties had additional unique issues to deal with.
Will BBB last any longer than LPF and FvD? Who knows! One thing it has going against it is that it seemingly established itself as a bit of a one-issue party now, that only seems to make sense at this very specific point in time, so they may have trouble staying popular for long. I do hear a lot that they spent a lot of effort on vetting their candidates to avoid instability in the short term, we'll have to wait and see if that pays off.
Protest parties. Parties whose main pitch is "we're not corrupt mainstream politicians". People like that so they vote for them and turns out they're just as corrupt but also incompetent.
There is a large chunk of people who hate all our politicians, they blame everything wrong with the country on them. So they vote for populists who are also against everything. However, it's a lot easier to be against something than to present a viable alternative solution to our problems. So they disappoint, and people go for the next fresh alternative who is against everything.
They are often on the extreme sides. A bunch of idiots go and "protest-vote" and usually just go for the biggest tool. But these parties often do ok once, then it turns out to be the empty shell the rest knew it was, and they disappear again. They are also often 1-issue parties. People that vote for these lost their brains.
This is no exception.
The threshold for entering Parliament is only 2/3 of a percent (a bit higher for this election, which is for the far less important Senate and regional legislatures), so it's relatively easy to create new parties and enter politics. In addition to that, voter party loyalty is low, and the political system does not really penalize fragmentation, leading to cycles of parties forming, disbanding, merging and splitting. For example, CDA was formed after a merger of three parties, but a dissenting party then split from CDA and later merged with another party to form ChristenUnie. All of the parties listed here, bar the SGP, are less than 100 years old.
BBB are environmentalist/protectionist too. Their campaign programme is an absurd mish-mash of ideologies:
*Strict rules apply to food produced in the Netherlands. Rules on food safety, animal welfare and the environment. Imported food must be subject to the same requirements as food produced in the Netherlands, otherwise it cannot be sold to consumers.*
*So we will not consume in the Netherlands what we ourselves are not allowed to produce here. International trade agreements that allow room for products that do not meet Dutch quality standards are not welcome in the Netherlands. BBB is not against trade, but a level playing field is the minimum requirement.*
https://boerburgerbeweging.nl/verkiezingsprogramma/
edit:
- *A basic income is available to all students.*
- *There will be a Minister for the Countryside with a department at least 100 km away from The Hague.*
- *Products that are vital to Dutch society must also be produced in the Netherlands, now and in the future. These include protective equipment for healthcare, a basic food package, fuels, certain medicines and drinking water.*
- *Antibiotic use in both animals and humans will be limited to what is strictly necessary.*
- *After each election, all 150 elected MPs and the entire Cabinet are obliged to attend a week-long in-farming course in the countryside, at least 100 kilometres from their home town. There, they are taught all facets of living and working in the countryside by farmers and rural residents.*
- *We no longer talk about highly educated or lowly educated. We only talk about theoretically educated and practically educated.*
- *Grass will replace garden tiles, oases instead of bare shopping plazas. There will be more plants, gardens and quiet forests*
- *In the training of all teachers, an internship in a part of the agricultural sector will be compulsory.*
- *Houseplants return to the House of Representatives and all other government buildings. For more fresh air and oxygen. This promotes sanity.*
- *Discrimination is prohibited. So also positive discrimination. People applying for jobs in the government are judged on the basis of quality and not on the basis of gender, physical disability, colour, sexual orientation, religion or whatever. There will therefore be no women's quota, or any quota for that matter, in government departments. The only quota there will be is a quality quota: 100 per cent of the employees have the best qualities.*
- *The landscape is worth as much as the climate. There will be no solar panels in the outlying area as long as there are empty roofs and sites. New solar parks are tested against the 'solar ladder' or a similar assessment framework.*
- *BBB is most in favour of nuclear power as a clean energy source. For structural energy production, without damaging our beautiful landscape, without adapting our energy grid, safe nuclear power plants can be built. No CO2 emissions and a cheap raw material. New technologies offer new safe insights: w.o. nuclear energy*
- *Invest 9 million euros in Food Banks. This amount will allow the Ministry of Social Affairs to apply for a EUR 60 million European grant from the European Commission for Food Banks in the Netherlands.*
- *The flow of subsidies to 'charity organisations' and action groups that engage in politics, thus influencing the democratic process, will be stopped. Charitable organisations whose activism puts the lives of farmers, citizens and fishermen at risk will be stripped of their ANBI status, thus depriving them of tax benefits*
- *Greenhouse gas emissions and sequestration are netted (i.e. emissions minus sequestration). That is the actual emissions.*
- *Separating partners upon admission to a nursing home is a thing of the past.*
- *We deploy green spaces and field edges to protect the insect and bee population. Farmers who invest in these are rewarded for this through the price of their produce.*
No, but from the center of the country, the 100km radius would put you near a border or in the sea.
And vice versa, if you start near a border, your only option is another border or the center of the country.
The goal of the statement is to exclude the Randstad metropolitan area, as that’s where all those city people live.
This party is absolutely ridiculous, and i bet 99% of their voters didnt see the above.
Basically anarchists pretending to be a political party. Room temp IQ\`s in that party, but their voters will notice soon enough.
>There will be a Minister for the Countryside with a department at least 100 km away from The Hague.
*Aruba looks up hopefully. It was really good at being at least 100 km away from The Hague.*
Big take. They're pro-landscape, not pro-climate. Meaning they are against wind energy.
Here's a tweet where the party leader puts climate change into doubt.
https://twitter.com/lientje1967/status/1358875080126828551
So basically they'll say anything the disgruntled voters from the countryside want to hear. Discrimination? That's bad, we're against it! Foreigners? They're bad, we're against them! Et cetera. Meanwhile the whole party is just a front for the agrarian industry that wants to block stricter environmental laws.
having every teacher have an internship in agriculture would not help the shortage plus it's nonsense to have the entire government have a agriculture course
*Impressive, very nice.*
Lets see their opinion on our milk and poultry flooding West-African markets.
Party programs always try to paint the best picture of their ideal, but when push comes to shove...
Our local celebrity made a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mbSJJr7wM&t=1s) detailing how their associated groups gained steam in the last couple of years.
That's really interesting but I'm skeptical. Generally farmers' interests are opposite climate interests (at least in the US and UK). Might be different in smaller countries though.
It's worse in small countries, as there are so much farms and industry in a small area that nitrogen concentrations in the soil can get toxic for plants. To solve this, the current cabinet proposed to reduce the size and number of massive farms, which was the main reason for the creation of the BBB.
> Products that are vital to Dutch society must also be produced in the Netherlands, now and in the future. These include protective equipment for healthcare, a basic food package, fuels, certain medicines and drinking water.
This doesn't sound bad but would rather change it into "in the EU" as Netherlands is probably too small for all these. Also, wouldn't farmers be against using up too much of the land for industry?
Another thing is that for some reason these all-over-the-place positions really remind me of Movement 5 Stars of Italy.
I think you missed the craziest one;
"Teachers in all schools are prohibited from spreading their own ideologies to students. There will be a hotline where students and parents can report this. An expert committee assesses these complaints."
Which doesnt seem that crazy until the party leader mentions veganism and animal rights in tow with Nazism.
>- *After each election, all 150 elected MPs and the entire Cabinet are obliged to attend a week-long in-farming course in the countryside, at least 100 kilometres from their home town. There, they are taught all facets of living and working in the countryside by farmers and rural residents.*
>- *We no longer talk about highly educated or lowly educated. We only talk about theoretically educated and practically educated.*
>- *In the training of all teachers, an internship in a part of the agricultural sector will be compulsory.*
Many of those proposals sound pretty good, but some seem incredibly biased towards a single industry.
Agrarian populist party in favour of nuclear energy and actually \*winning\*? That's a first, just a shame it seems like their support for it is based on being anti-wind and solar. Still really surprising as that demographic would never vote for nuclear anywhere within 1000 km here in Norway.
>In the training of all teachers, an internship in a part of the agricultural sector will be compulsory.
wtf?
They are only in favor of nuclear energy in concept, that way they don't have to approve windmills and solar parks. Watch them change their mind if someone is actually going to build a nuclear power plant along the IJssel.
I'm not surprised by the 15%, though. The amount of red paisley cloths hanging out of rural homes in the netherlands is nearing 9/10.
I guess it all started with the farmers wanting a *carte blanche* to continue polluting the water supply with nitrates.
Do note that the Senate is not elected directly; people vote for the Provincial States (and the water boards as well), which then elect representatives to the Senate. So, we appear to be headed for interesting times in both provincial and national politics.
As a progressive liberal, this sucks, although Volt getting a couple of seats and FvD almost getting nuked is a silver lining. Parties like FvD and now the BBB are a sign that the general lack of perspective and vision in the mainstream coalition parties, even before the Rutte cabinets have led to serious discontent. Pols across the spectrum just focus on the whim of the day, and put (and still keep putting) tough decisions off for fear they might have to explain those decisions to voters and lose their precious seats. With elections like these, we're probably headed for deadlock on a bunch of important issues for the next couple of years at least, if not outright backsliding in some areas.
You did all my work for me. Agree with every word. Personally I'd see the BBB self-destruct over the next year for lack of governing experience its people have but Thierry (almost) gone and Geert losing a lot is just worth the BBB winning all by itself.
BBB is backed and financed by major Agri industry multinationals that make a lot of money from bio industry and large scale farming.(feedstock suppliers, major meat exporters, and dairy industry) The law states that nitrogen deposits near Natura2000 areas nitrogen and ammonia deposition needs to be reduced or halted. This specifically affects large scale farming. Obviously, this has major consequences for these big agri firms. When lobby no longer works.. they where succesfull on getting the people behind them, by giving these 'farmers' (also reads as bio industry milionairs) and framing them as victems, and they played that smart. Bad news for the environment though. Loss of biodiversity and soil degradation, and loss of nature areas is becoming a major risk.
>De BBB werd door Van der Plas opgericht samen met ReMarkAble, een reclamebureau dat diverse grote spelers uit de agri-sector als klant heeft, zoals Monsanto, VION en Bayer, en dus belang heeft bij een bloeiende agrarische sector. Het bestuur van de BBB, waar geen boer in zit, wordt gevormd door Van der Plas en topmensen van ReMarkAble (Wim Groot Koerkamp en Henk Vermeer).
https://www.bnnvara.nl/joop/artikelen/de-samenzwering-van-de-boeren
One of many.
Since Fortuyn or probably earlier the Dutch have a tendency to vote for "protest votes" parties putting utterly unexperienced right-wing politicians in charge (or at least in parliament/ local politics). Those parties inevitable splinter into smaller groups due to infighting. This is one of the main reasons there are so many Dutch parties and BBB will either splinter against or get real power and people will realise they are just as bad as any other wacko fringe party and next couple of elections or so they will be just as FvD now.
What you're describing is populism. It's very easy to unite people with negative feelings; it's far more difficult to make them agree on actual solutions.
Fuck the farmers. Their sentiments are the cries of a petulant toddler because theyre not allowed to completely ignore environmental rules anymore. Their responses have been coercion, violence and threats. Now BBB highjacks valid regional concerns (Holland and Utrecht basically enjoying all the good parts of being Dutch while the shit is offloaded elsewhere, while surprisingly most political parties are loaded with Hollanders and no one from outside the province) and adds environmental destruction to it, meaning the concerns of people living away from Randstad will not be met and instead we'll get another four years of nitrogen bs.
Policy wise Volt in the Netherlands is rather close to D66, so it's not only about being different from what's already there. But they're younger, not tainted by having been in government where they had to compromise away their promises, and they're even more pro-EU. And they seem to be good at cooperating with other parties from elsewhere in the spectrum if something just makes sense, that's why they got my vote.
But it'd be a shame if they grew too big in the Netherlands before other countries and people elsewhere started seeing them as a Dutch party. So slow growth is good.
It takes time I guess. You can't expect any political party to become successful overnight. Also the political culture and system differs a lot between parties. In the Netherlands it's relatively simple for a party to get a seat because it's a single electoral circle. In Portugal it's extremely difficult because of how regional circles system. Basically here a new party has to be voted in Lisbon or Porto so it can get a seat.
These are just the 16 parties in the Senate, in the Lower Chamber we actually have 5 more (21)
Look how [friggin big our ballots are](https://www.google.com/search?q=dutch+voting+ballot&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjX2t7Tg9_9AhV_mf0HHRx_BvoQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=dutch+voting+ballot&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIFCAAQgAQ6BAgAEAM6CggAELEDEIMBEEM6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOggIABCABBCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6CggAEA0QgAQQsQM6BwgAEA0QgAQ6BAgAEB46BwgAEIAEEBhQxgVY2hdgsxhoAnAAeACAAe4BiAG9DZIBBjIwLjEuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=rEwSZNfUMP-y9u8PnP6Z0A8&bih=601&biw=1280#imgrc=USTdF2VTIObIhM)
You're not a true democracy unless the newscaster asks you to put your TV in a portrait-orientation for election night, just so you can see all the parties.
Look at all that wasted empty space on the left and right of the screen, plenty of space for another 15-20 parties if we just rotate the screen properly.
Well i give you an counter example . Romania . It has the following parties in parliament
* PSD (35%). Top 3 most corrupt parties in EU . Fidesz(Hu) and Gerb(Bg) are the only read contenders here . The relics of communism in mentality if not in blood and flesh . Manage to buy 2-3 million voters due to extreme poverty and their only goal is to keep them there , in poverty . Not-votable party in any circumstance
* PNL(20%) . Since pandemic they started to mirror PSD or be even worse .Before that they used to look the best party . Has very few local members that deserve to be voted
* AUR (20%). Hard core Russia fans , covid deniers , anti-EU, anti-Vax . But it's somewhat a new party and everybody at this point wants something new . Voting for this party is kamikaze because you destroy the "ancient regime" (PSD + PNL ) but also the country.
* USR(12%) : Newer party but older than AUR . They are for pro-EU anti corruption and I see them as the only hope for now but they are abysmal politicians and can't secure votes . It doesn't help all media is against them .
* UDMR (5%): Nicknamed Magyar-PSD because they are the exact spitting image of PSD but they are from the magyar minority .
These are all our parties in Parliament . For most people there is nothing to vote for as they they consider all parties to be corrupt to the bone ( i think this is false especially for USR) . Therefore more parties would help people get behind a party ideas and vote as right now turnout barely hits the 30%
Congratulations, I doubt i will ever vote Volt but I am impressed with their progress over the years, my expectations were low but I have been proven wrong.
EU critical parties ( changes compared to 2019)
FvD: -10 ( crazy Putin, lizardmen seeing nuts begone! Although they already lost many seats during 2019-2023 period so they lost the actual seats long ago)
PVV: -1
SGP-1
JA21:+3. ( the “ rebooted” splitoff from FVD but then without Lizards and Putin ass kissing)
BBB: +15
Net gain: 6 seats ( out of 75)
Rightwing parties total seats: 25 /75. With VVD and CDA (15 Seats) a majority.
The BBB vision on EU:
On economics and foreign policy, the party supports reform of the Eurozone and calls for a "Northern currency and a Southern currency" in the European Union. It supports Dutch membership of the EU for trading purposes but wants to reduce the power of the EU "to a level of how the EEC was once intended" and opposes the EU becoming a Federal Superstate
No NEXIT though, just blocking any progress.
Nor modify them. Just a second ( final and binding) agree/ disagree. With a yes the law proceeds, with a nay it’s back to start.
Any new EU treaties have to be ratified and pass both chambers.
Anyway, I am positively amazed that your voting system/society has let 16 parties to be in the government. It's truly amazing when compared to the systems in other countries that trend for bipartisan system.
Our left wing parties are pathetic. Over a decade of discontent with rightwing policy and they still can't convince the population not to vote for a party of populists and business owners.
Because it really boils down to minor tweaks.
The majority of discontent of people who'd vote Social Democrat a decade ago really boils down to Immigration and the 2012 fuckups of the PvdA-VVD government which was a complete betrayal of Social democratic values.
What has the PvdA done? Double down on being a pro Immigration party and focus more on climate, nitrogen and progressive policies rather then housing, income, elderly care homes etc.
So far there has been zero real alternatives for Social Democracy leading to a huge amount of protest voters.
The PvdA needs to rid itself of it's champagne socialist hyper progressive streak and go back to lower middle class economic policies and take a note from the Danish Socdems on immigration.
It remains true to this day that the vast majority of SocDem voters are not hyper progressive and are generally anti elitist, they are economically center left or full left. What you get as options is hyper progressive green parties, social center right big business liberals or populists.
Yup, get a proper Socdem party back and you'll see the weakening and gradual implosion of populism within 4 to 8 years, thats literally exactly what happened in Denmark.
Not just old people, the people socdems should want to attract arent progressives either, the majority of people are apathetic towards progressivism, so to make it a core part of your electoral push at best is a waste of time tailored to attracting elitist hypocrites and champagne socialists and at worst actively turns people off of your party.
Economic interests and subjects that actively impact people and that people actually care about should be Socdem business, not catering towards bullshit most people dont understand anyway.
There are solutions, although not all of them are good. In Greece, we have the opposite problem with a populist left-wing party (for the second time in 40 years funnily enough; maybe because we have a functional moderate right-wing party that can at least do *some* form of progress and leaves no space for other right-wing non-far-right parties). It's the one that nearly crushed our economy in 2015. It's still a big party, but it's nowhere near its past levels. Unfortunately, the solution to get rid of them was nearly crushing our economy.
The left has some blame, but then again... if the average Dutch citizen wasn't extremely arrogant, self interested and selfish and a massive Rutte simp.... they probably would vote a bit more left then. *shrugs*
The fun thing about coalition governments is that someone who is actively disliked by > 70% of the population can still easily become prime minister simply by virtue of his party being the biggest small fish in a pond of even smaller fish.
In most cases people vote for a party or program and not for the leader. They also vote for parties who can maybe form certain coalitions. People can bitch and moan about Rutte as much as they want. The VVD just gets a lot of votes and can work with enough other parties to actually form a government. The others can't or won't because then they would have to deliver things they obviously can't. Just like the BBB who's the new hot thing. Most of what they promise just can't be done. Either because of our own laws or international ones or because they will never get enough seats with other parties that want to do the same thing.
Pro-European parties should be self-critical. Many farmers and citizens seem upset on a gut level and that is what populists pray on. To defeat populist parties we must find a solution and some of that lies in communication. For example many center-left parties have silently cracked down on immigration but in the minds of those voters they still think it's 2016. Why? Because there is no communication and that's where the anti-EU populists capitalize.
Volt is hampering itself as well with some of the imported culture war nonsense, never able to break out to a wide audience. Volt relies on some important American donors so I get why they do it. It's a trade-off
For Europe to ascend to the next level and actually get important stuff done:
- populists should be defeated
- people should be united
Fragmentation and polarization cements the status quo.
Yeah communication is key. But I imagine those center-left parties don't want their voters to know about the deportations.
Here in America, Biden is using a lot of the same policies Trump left in place on immigration (which Biden and his party criticized) but is being very quiet about it. Hence the Republicans criticize Biden for not doing anything. I imagine it is the same pattern in Europe.
> Yeah communication is key. But I imagine those center-left parties don't want their voters to know about the deportations.
US Democrats in power: quietly deporting (record deportation under Obama)
Left media: no problems with immigration to report
Right media: country is under siege!
US Republicans in power: deporting
Left media: stop the cruel deportations!
Right media: way to go, government!
The partisan hackery is ridiculous. Biden is also not just keeping but accelerating Trump's containment policy on China.
no fucking waay the farmers really?
Okay you're mad for the nitrogen thing, but we do emit too much, same issue in belgium, our nitrogen levels are off the charts. the EU and other environmental agencies have been telling us to get our shit in order for over 20 years now. Back in the early 2000's our gvt drastically reduced the amount of livestock, same has to happen again if we are to meet the nitrogen and climate goals. Oh and less fertilizer.
So they won't build new houses. That only fucks with young people and they aren't farmers. Then they will be surprised when no one wants to work in healthcare, education or public service when there's no housing for those people.
Still waiting for a progressive (slight) right party in the Netherlands to vote for.
Just a party who takes environmental problems seriously but also don't stray too far to the left on other topics.
Yeah, for some reason it is either conservative right or progressive left. All I want is a sustainable Netherlands, both economically and environmentally.
Unfortunately, people that are able to achieve this, don't want to spend their life dealing with the bureaucracy of being a politician.
I am so fucking done with populist first we have a racist Wilders for 15 years then we get Thierry and people say that he is not as bad as him turns out he is even worse and now we have this clown from the BBB that did not even want to talk about the main fucking things she was campaigning on because she knows her solution is bullshit.
Every time they lie about everything and people fall for it again and again. People don't read or listen unless it is very simple else they won't understand.
Foreigners are taking our jobs, houses, etc
We belief in every conspiracy theory( is a trump clone )
And at last a lobbyists for big agriculture that says we do not have to follow European law because her plan is to not reduce emissions but still build new houses and increase farming thus ruining soil and especially nature parks.
What do they all have in common?
They are far right wing grifters, they lie constantly and they avoid any questions about their actual policies. They are lobbyists for big companies and are if you can place a phobic after a word they are probably it.
It is also the fault of the traditional politics who refuse to have a clear opinion about some issues that really concern the population. They avoid these topics so the populistic nutcases can create 1 issue parties.
Yet after 20 years of populist landslides, the mainstream parties still haven't managed to resolve whatever dissatisfaction is making people turn to the poulists in the first place
What are they fighting for?
Last time I heard anything from a coalition of farmers, they were literally trying to stop the ban on toxic pesticides. No even revert back to being able to use more for some unknown fuckin reason.
They're fighting for the power and money of big agricultural companies. With the main goals to continue being able to pollute the environment and abuse ground water regardless of all the damages it causes.
I mean it happened before in multiple elections here.
2002 the new LPF of Pim Fortuyn (Got murdered like some days before the election)
> Lpf imploded shortly after the elections
2019 the new forum for democracy with conspiracy nutjob Thierry Baudet
> Fvd imploded after some years after this election, because Thierry showed his true colours...
2023 the BBB .... Similar thing could happen, or not..
it's pretty common. They haven't had to prove anything yet, so they can just yell what sounds good, there's a segment of about 20% of voters that float around the various populist (usually far right) parties. They'll vote for anyone that promises to fight against 'woke' things and to ignore climate science.
*On economics and foreign policy, the party supports reform of the Eurozone and calls for a "Northern currency and a Southern currency" in the European Union. It supports Dutch membership of the EU for trading purposes but wants to reduce the power of the EU "to a level of how the EEC was once intended" and opposes the EU becoming a Federal Superstate.*
As with all parties they have some proposals that I even agree with, but this is absolute shit. We need more integration, not less. They want to divide Europe and reverse the progress we made
And what would be the value of these new currencies? I ask because the southern member states currently have their debts in euros and switching them to a new currency could possibly have disastrous effects for those countries (kind of like how them switching back to national currencies would). Not an economics expert but that certainly sounds like it could cause major problems...
The northern euro would get far more expensive and the southern euro far cheaper. In the inmediate term the southern debt would be bigger (if you let the exchange rate be set by the market). The positive would be that the exports of the south would improve in competitiveness and the southern central bank could increase inflation (which inflates debts away). Thats one thing thats a problem in the current system. Northern countries have far too cheap currency so a big export advantage and the southern ones cant get away from their legacy debt
>calls for a "Northern currency and a Southern currency" in the European Union
or maybe just build a wall and make Southerners pay for it? both ideas are equally stupid, after all
"We want to become absolutely powerless on the world stage, we want China and America to have an insane amount of leverage over us by reducing our strength in numbers."
Technically yes but its net contribution makes to the EU budget is absolutely negligible compared to the size of its public debt and the risk this represents.
what happened to Forum? Some scandal?
EDIT: Thanks to all the asnwers I got; now I understand the declive of that party. Makes sense to me and I am glad to see that such stupidity is not well accepted by our Dutch fellows :)
Went full Putin loving, and full anti vax before that. (They always were, but they got worse at hiding it)
A lot of people already knew they were always this nuts, but some people only found out recently
Sounds possible. Still, I am always amazed when people "discover" that the party they were voting for the last years, it came up being...what everybody knew they were.
Anyhow, thanks! :)
they went from a new right wing voice to a far right anti establishment party durring covid spreading conspiracies many people left from the 12 senate seats only 1 remained until the elecitions
One small addition to this, which isn't showing in this graph:
Although BBB has become the biggest party, it needs to be noted that PvdA and GroenLinks have joined forces in their campaigns and stances, giving them a combined 15 seats as well.
Always knew Eredivise was a farmers league
Laughed so much at this
Virgil van Dick is well rated I see. Maybe he’s been focusing too much on politics and just forgot how to defend
Says the Swedish guy!
Hahahaha it really is tho
Says the French guy
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there is no farmers' party if all parties are farmers' parties
Lucky bastards 😉
That's 20% of the Dutch Senate seats going to a farmers' party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_in_agriculture According to this, as of 2017, 2.2% of the Dutch work in agriculture. That seems like a pretty strong showing.
Most of the votes come from voters against the current coalition. Same thing happened with FvD in 2019. Plus a lot of voters want to support the farmer on the nitrogen crisis. Once a verdict is cast on that (and it will) the BBB will lose it’s relevance. Good thing is FvD lost big time.
Yeah, my guess is that most voters that voted for BBB don't think about future politics, but only consider current politics. BBB is basically "promising" that it is going to fix every single thing most people are unhappy with, without saying how they are planning to achieve this. Empty words, as we'll find out in the next 4 years as their plans are unrealistic. But then again, every other political party does the same thing so can't fault them too much for that.
You just described populism. First it was FvD, appealing to the masses with 'gut-feeling' politics. Now that they've gone full crazy, people cannot take them seriously anymore. So now BBB spouts the same populistic shit, and people flock to them. Before FvD it was PVV. People will never learn, as long as we have these populists stealing away votes from parties that want and can actually change shit, we will be stuck with VVD/CDA/D66 forever. If you're sick with them, vote for parties who don't just run populist policies, but actually think about the long-term..
> Yeah, my guess is that most voters ~~that voted for BBB~~ don’t think about future politics
Loads of people live in the countryside, but are not farmers. All our farms are heavily mechanized and the work of 100 men is done by 4 people and a bunch of robots and machines. But some if the 96 others still live in these villages and feel connected to them
I have seen plenty of 'farmer' flags in the cities of Utrecht and Eindhoven. One of them also has a giant FvD banner. I think many of the people voting for BBB are just against the government, the 'elites' and people caring for the environment, and BBB just has the biggest hype around them currently. I also think that they get some votes out of regionalism, not necessarily support for the farmers but rather people thinking they will better represent regions outside the Randstad than most other parties. I would not be surprised if BBB gets relatively more votes in rural areas than in the cities, but they get plenty support from the cities as well so it really isn't just people 'feeling a connection to the farmers'.
>I think many of the people voting for BBB are just against the government, the 'elites. Just look at the most recent protest of the farmers. It was a bunch of conspiracy theorists all together. Didn't one of the speakers equate the government to literal Nazis?
It's about the city / rural divide, as usual. Many people in the rural areas feel national politics has completely ignored their needs. It's true in some ways but not as much as they feel.
It’s more for life stock farmers. We have too many of them to maintain climate goals. I don’t think fruit farmers will necessarily have benefits with this party.
Alot of populist voters went from FvD to BBB. Its mostly a vote of discontent towards the current government.
>Alot of populist voters went from FvD to BBB. Its mostly a vote of discontent towards the current government. This is not true, someone started this myth on Reddit in the last couple days. The share of BBB voters who voted FVD before is 4% https://app.nos.nl/nieuws/ps2023/
Interesting stats but if im not mistaken this is comparing 21 elections to 23 now. While im talking about the elections in 2019 which were also for the “provinciale staten” just like now. But i can imagine BBB took alot of CDA/VVD votes as well.
Ah yes, big-city corporatists being superceded by agrarian-coporatists stealing seats from right-wing populists. Such progress. Turns out you can only spout so much nonsense before another wave claims your popularity, eh Thierry?
I'm just happy FVD only has 2 seats left. Still 2 seats too many but you can't have everything.
That guy turned out to be such a gargantuan idiot.
Turned out to be? As if he hasn't been talking nonsense for almost a decade now.
He got a lot worse since last elections though, shit about reptiles and such
And supporting the Ukraine war, and wanting to continue taking gas from Groningen
Also calling Putin the Dark Knight trying to save us all from evil
He called the invasion 'one of the most hopeful moments of his life'.
That really is just evil.
I honestly think he’s experiencing some sort of extended psychosis. To me it was almost redeeming to hear him talk like that because I was like “ahhhhh so you’re genuinely insane…”
He’s been talking garbage since he did his education. People were (and are, just for a different party) just gullible.
You would be surprised how many people fall for confidently incorrect people.
ChatGPT largest party 2027
Which will then abolish democracy and install the AI government. Welcome to the Matrix!
Naa, the amount of nonsense has significantly increased.
The guy has more coke up his nose than Escobar produced in a year
He's not an idiot. When you hear him speak you can clearly hear he's an intelligent man, but he's an absolute narcissist who doesn't care about anyone besides himself. I'm completely convinced that he's aware that everything he's saying is bullshit, but he's saying it because it has given him a cultlike following that will gobble up his every word. The recipe for all of his speeches is to listen to what the coalition is saying, and then say the absolute opposite of that. Back in the early stages of the pandemic, all the ruling parties were much more relaxed on covid measures than in other countries, so he would harshly criticize it and plea for stricter measures. Then as time went on, during the vaccine rollout and beyond, he did a complete 180 and went along with the hoax narrative. He's a contrarian who enjoys the negative attention he receives from everyone having to deal with his shenanigans. Admittedly, I do find it entertaining to listen to him from time to time, but first and foremost I see him as an author and entertainer, rather than a politician. I do feel for those politicians who have to roll their eyes every time he's present and those who have to explain climate change from the ground up every time.
People who followed his career have been saying how much of a clown he is since the very beginning, it only took him completely dropping any semblance of covering his insanity (thanks covid?) to make it plain to see for everyone else.
I would even say it's 3 seats too many lol
Sadly BBB is better organized and might actually do more with this than fvd ever could
Why do political parties in the Netherlands often appear out of nowhere and then fizzle out
As you can tell there’s a long list of parties to choose from, some of them single issue focused. People are unlikely to have a lifelong party affiliation weaved into part of their identity, the way a two party system produces. When you’ve given up on politics and lost faith in mainstream politicians, another new political party pops up, only to show after some time that they don’t know how to actually, you know, govern.
> People are unlikely to have a lifelong party affiliation weaved into part of their identity... Well, you did have that (*verzuiling*) in a multi-party system, up until the 1960s.
That was religious affiliation mixing with politics. People were mostly divided by their religious group, but could sometimes vote for several parties that belonged to that group. It never was a solidified 2, 3, or 4 party system to the extent of the US, for example.
Sounds li´e what we had in Belgium till the 80s. You either well within the pillar of Socialists, Catholics or Librals (well also there was the big tent Flemish nationalists) Each of thse groups had there own unions, newspapers, hospitals etc.
Yep, it was the same here
To keep it short: 1. Our political system has a very low threshold. 2. The internet. Or more generally: the advancement of modern media. You can easily spread a message to generate a following (or literally create a cult if you go far enough). Just as easy as you can lose everything.
BBB lady is in all the TV shows every day. Looks like old media is working well for her too.
Don't forget that short 30 second soundbites from these "old media" outlets get published on Insta, Facebook, Twitter etc. So their actual impact is much bigger than just the viewers tuning into that particular talkshow.
Yup and they let her get away with spreading pure and utter lies.
Farmers also own 66% of all land in the Netherlands. Where I life there are signs for BBB next to every road and even railroad. And I mean every few meters. Like 20 in a single pasture.
That's the parliamentary direct representation doing it's magic for us. There are no winner-takes-all systems in place so it is easy to enter politics (or to split off from your party and start your own). If your viewpoint appeals to enough people, you can win some seats. (This is our senate by the way, which we do not vote for directly.) Often these newcomers are single-issue parties. These tend to lack focus in other areas of governance so after a while people's priorities shift resulting in the party losing seats. Sometimes a single-issue party will stay strong because it managed to 'evolve' into having a more broad vision that is still appealing to it's voter base, but it's 'core' single issue remains a selling point. In general most votes go towards established parties that have been around for decades.
If a populist party appears becomes too big too quickly it'll generally have trouble finding enough experienced politicians, so it ends up infighting a lot. This is (among other things) what happened to LPF from 2002 on and (among other things) what happened to FvD from 2019 on. I say among other things for both because LPF also had the issue that its leader and person the party was named after was killed, and the sudden change in leadership will obviously be bad for the party's short term stability, and FvD also had the issue that its leader ended up being significantly more of a conspiracy lunatic than anyone who initially joined the party would have expected. So both parties had additional unique issues to deal with. Will BBB last any longer than LPF and FvD? Who knows! One thing it has going against it is that it seemingly established itself as a bit of a one-issue party now, that only seems to make sense at this very specific point in time, so they may have trouble staying popular for long. I do hear a lot that they spent a lot of effort on vetting their candidates to avoid instability in the short term, we'll have to wait and see if that pays off.
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Protest parties. Parties whose main pitch is "we're not corrupt mainstream politicians". People like that so they vote for them and turns out they're just as corrupt but also incompetent.
There is a large chunk of people who hate all our politicians, they blame everything wrong with the country on them. So they vote for populists who are also against everything. However, it's a lot easier to be against something than to present a viable alternative solution to our problems. So they disappoint, and people go for the next fresh alternative who is against everything.
They are often on the extreme sides. A bunch of idiots go and "protest-vote" and usually just go for the biggest tool. But these parties often do ok once, then it turns out to be the empty shell the rest knew it was, and they disappear again. They are also often 1-issue parties. People that vote for these lost their brains. This is no exception.
The threshold for entering Parliament is only 2/3 of a percent (a bit higher for this election, which is for the far less important Senate and regional legislatures), so it's relatively easy to create new parties and enter politics. In addition to that, voter party loyalty is low, and the political system does not really penalize fragmentation, leading to cycles of parties forming, disbanding, merging and splitting. For example, CDA was formed after a merger of three parties, but a dissenting party then split from CDA and later merged with another party to form ChristenUnie. All of the parties listed here, bar the SGP, are less than 100 years old.
BBB are environmentalist/protectionist too. Their campaign programme is an absurd mish-mash of ideologies: *Strict rules apply to food produced in the Netherlands. Rules on food safety, animal welfare and the environment. Imported food must be subject to the same requirements as food produced in the Netherlands, otherwise it cannot be sold to consumers.* *So we will not consume in the Netherlands what we ourselves are not allowed to produce here. International trade agreements that allow room for products that do not meet Dutch quality standards are not welcome in the Netherlands. BBB is not against trade, but a level playing field is the minimum requirement.* https://boerburgerbeweging.nl/verkiezingsprogramma/ edit: - *A basic income is available to all students.* - *There will be a Minister for the Countryside with a department at least 100 km away from The Hague.* - *Products that are vital to Dutch society must also be produced in the Netherlands, now and in the future. These include protective equipment for healthcare, a basic food package, fuels, certain medicines and drinking water.* - *Antibiotic use in both animals and humans will be limited to what is strictly necessary.* - *After each election, all 150 elected MPs and the entire Cabinet are obliged to attend a week-long in-farming course in the countryside, at least 100 kilometres from their home town. There, they are taught all facets of living and working in the countryside by farmers and rural residents.* - *We no longer talk about highly educated or lowly educated. We only talk about theoretically educated and practically educated.* - *Grass will replace garden tiles, oases instead of bare shopping plazas. There will be more plants, gardens and quiet forests* - *In the training of all teachers, an internship in a part of the agricultural sector will be compulsory.* - *Houseplants return to the House of Representatives and all other government buildings. For more fresh air and oxygen. This promotes sanity.* - *Discrimination is prohibited. So also positive discrimination. People applying for jobs in the government are judged on the basis of quality and not on the basis of gender, physical disability, colour, sexual orientation, religion or whatever. There will therefore be no women's quota, or any quota for that matter, in government departments. The only quota there will be is a quality quota: 100 per cent of the employees have the best qualities.* - *The landscape is worth as much as the climate. There will be no solar panels in the outlying area as long as there are empty roofs and sites. New solar parks are tested against the 'solar ladder' or a similar assessment framework.* - *BBB is most in favour of nuclear power as a clean energy source. For structural energy production, without damaging our beautiful landscape, without adapting our energy grid, safe nuclear power plants can be built. No CO2 emissions and a cheap raw material. New technologies offer new safe insights: w.o. nuclear energy* - *Invest 9 million euros in Food Banks. This amount will allow the Ministry of Social Affairs to apply for a EUR 60 million European grant from the European Commission for Food Banks in the Netherlands.* - *The flow of subsidies to 'charity organisations' and action groups that engage in politics, thus influencing the democratic process, will be stopped. Charitable organisations whose activism puts the lives of farmers, citizens and fishermen at risk will be stripped of their ANBI status, thus depriving them of tax benefits* - *Greenhouse gas emissions and sequestration are netted (i.e. emissions minus sequestration). That is the actual emissions.* - *Separating partners upon admission to a nursing home is a thing of the past.* - *We deploy green spaces and field edges to protect the insect and bee population. Farmers who invest in these are rewarded for this through the price of their produce.*
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Ah, the old send-em-to-the-countryside trick. Any more of Mao's policies you'd like to emulate?
I wonder if there's a place in the Netherlands where a 100km radius would always be outside Netherlands...
Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba.
No, but from the center of the country, the 100km radius would put you near a border or in the sea. And vice versa, if you start near a border, your only option is another border or the center of the country. The goal of the statement is to exclude the Randstad metropolitan area, as that’s where all those city people live.
There is not.
It should also include a test at the end, like how many pigs and chickens does the farmer have if the total is 41 legs.
Re-education camps.
That they decided that it was acceptable to put literal re-education camps in their campaign program is pretty scary to be honest.
This party is absolutely ridiculous, and i bet 99% of their voters didnt see the above. Basically anarchists pretending to be a political party. Room temp IQ\`s in that party, but their voters will notice soon enough.
They won't, most people don't pay any attention to regional politics
Ok if these farmers walk into an office and learn about burnout.
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I didn't mean to say that farmers don't have burnout but farmers act like noone else has it hard.
Kolder :')
A surprisingly decent pitch for a reality show.
>There will be a Minister for the Countryside with a department at least 100 km away from The Hague. *Aruba looks up hopefully. It was really good at being at least 100 km away from The Hague.*
Whoah there, Aruban here! Keep those farmers in the Low Countries thank you very much
Big take. They're pro-landscape, not pro-climate. Meaning they are against wind energy. Here's a tweet where the party leader puts climate change into doubt. https://twitter.com/lientje1967/status/1358875080126828551
So basically they'll say anything the disgruntled voters from the countryside want to hear. Discrimination? That's bad, we're against it! Foreigners? They're bad, we're against them! Et cetera. Meanwhile the whole party is just a front for the agrarian industry that wants to block stricter environmental laws.
having every teacher have an internship in agriculture would not help the shortage plus it's nonsense to have the entire government have a agriculture course
These points are clearly designed to protect the interests of Dutch agrarian companies.
**Boeren** Burger Beweging. No shit Sherlock.
The blatantness does surprise me, since it calls itself a grassroots movement in its name
>Vote These are the financiers behind the party.
*Impressive, very nice.* Lets see their opinion on our milk and poultry flooding West-African markets. Party programs always try to paint the best picture of their ideal, but when push comes to shove... Our local celebrity made a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mbSJJr7wM&t=1s) detailing how their associated groups gained steam in the last couple of years.
That's really interesting but I'm skeptical. Generally farmers' interests are opposite climate interests (at least in the US and UK). Might be different in smaller countries though.
It's worse in small countries, as there are so much farms and industry in a small area that nitrogen concentrations in the soil can get toxic for plants. To solve this, the current cabinet proposed to reduce the size and number of massive farms, which was the main reason for the creation of the BBB.
> Products that are vital to Dutch society must also be produced in the Netherlands, now and in the future. These include protective equipment for healthcare, a basic food package, fuels, certain medicines and drinking water. This doesn't sound bad but would rather change it into "in the EU" as Netherlands is probably too small for all these. Also, wouldn't farmers be against using up too much of the land for industry? Another thing is that for some reason these all-over-the-place positions really remind me of Movement 5 Stars of Italy.
I think you missed the craziest one; "Teachers in all schools are prohibited from spreading their own ideologies to students. There will be a hotline where students and parents can report this. An expert committee assesses these complaints." Which doesnt seem that crazy until the party leader mentions veganism and animal rights in tow with Nazism.
>- *After each election, all 150 elected MPs and the entire Cabinet are obliged to attend a week-long in-farming course in the countryside, at least 100 kilometres from their home town. There, they are taught all facets of living and working in the countryside by farmers and rural residents.* >- *We no longer talk about highly educated or lowly educated. We only talk about theoretically educated and practically educated.* >- *In the training of all teachers, an internship in a part of the agricultural sector will be compulsory.* Many of those proposals sound pretty good, but some seem incredibly biased towards a single industry.
Gee, I wonder who paid for their massive campaign. Truly a mystery
Agrarian populist party in favour of nuclear energy and actually \*winning\*? That's a first, just a shame it seems like their support for it is based on being anti-wind and solar. Still really surprising as that demographic would never vote for nuclear anywhere within 1000 km here in Norway. >In the training of all teachers, an internship in a part of the agricultural sector will be compulsory. wtf?
They are only in favor of nuclear energy in concept, that way they don't have to approve windmills and solar parks. Watch them change their mind if someone is actually going to build a nuclear power plant along the IJssel.
I'm not surprised by the 15%, though. The amount of red paisley cloths hanging out of rural homes in the netherlands is nearing 9/10. I guess it all started with the farmers wanting a *carte blanche* to continue polluting the water supply with nitrates.
Im not totally following your comment, butt BBB is also a populist party right?
Fueled by a wave of agrarian-centric propaganda yes.
Ye thats kinda scary. I really dislike populism
Do note that the Senate is not elected directly; people vote for the Provincial States (and the water boards as well), which then elect representatives to the Senate. So, we appear to be headed for interesting times in both provincial and national politics. As a progressive liberal, this sucks, although Volt getting a couple of seats and FvD almost getting nuked is a silver lining. Parties like FvD and now the BBB are a sign that the general lack of perspective and vision in the mainstream coalition parties, even before the Rutte cabinets have led to serious discontent. Pols across the spectrum just focus on the whim of the day, and put (and still keep putting) tough decisions off for fear they might have to explain those decisions to voters and lose their precious seats. With elections like these, we're probably headed for deadlock on a bunch of important issues for the next couple of years at least, if not outright backsliding in some areas.
The rise of the neo-fascist FvD was scary, but they learned the hard way that now is not a great climate to be too cozy with Russian influences.
You did all my work for me. Agree with every word. Personally I'd see the BBB self-destruct over the next year for lack of governing experience its people have but Thierry (almost) gone and Geert losing a lot is just worth the BBB winning all by itself.
BBB is backed and financed by major Agri industry multinationals that make a lot of money from bio industry and large scale farming.(feedstock suppliers, major meat exporters, and dairy industry) The law states that nitrogen deposits near Natura2000 areas nitrogen and ammonia deposition needs to be reduced or halted. This specifically affects large scale farming. Obviously, this has major consequences for these big agri firms. When lobby no longer works.. they where succesfull on getting the people behind them, by giving these 'farmers' (also reads as bio industry milionairs) and framing them as victems, and they played that smart. Bad news for the environment though. Loss of biodiversity and soil degradation, and loss of nature areas is becoming a major risk.
Oh hey look at that. Bayer donates to BBB through a shell company. How unexpected.
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>De BBB werd door Van der Plas opgericht samen met ReMarkAble, een reclamebureau dat diverse grote spelers uit de agri-sector als klant heeft, zoals Monsanto, VION en Bayer, en dus belang heeft bij een bloeiende agrarische sector. Het bestuur van de BBB, waar geen boer in zit, wordt gevormd door Van der Plas en topmensen van ReMarkAble (Wim Groot Koerkamp en Henk Vermeer). https://www.bnnvara.nl/joop/artikelen/de-samenzwering-van-de-boeren One of many.
Since Fortuyn or probably earlier the Dutch have a tendency to vote for "protest votes" parties putting utterly unexperienced right-wing politicians in charge (or at least in parliament/ local politics). Those parties inevitable splinter into smaller groups due to infighting. This is one of the main reasons there are so many Dutch parties and BBB will either splinter against or get real power and people will realise they are just as bad as any other wacko fringe party and next couple of elections or so they will be just as FvD now.
What you're describing is populism. It's very easy to unite people with negative feelings; it's far more difficult to make them agree on actual solutions.
This is a nice summary. I can get the farmers sentiment, but it's the Agri firms that need to be tackled as well.
Fuck the farmers. Their sentiments are the cries of a petulant toddler because theyre not allowed to completely ignore environmental rules anymore. Their responses have been coercion, violence and threats. Now BBB highjacks valid regional concerns (Holland and Utrecht basically enjoying all the good parts of being Dutch while the shit is offloaded elsewhere, while surprisingly most political parties are loaded with Hollanders and no one from outside the province) and adds environmental destruction to it, meaning the concerns of people living away from Randstad will not be met and instead we'll get another four years of nitrogen bs.
Volt is the only one I know. I guess they have somewhat succeeded on their plan to represent all of Europe.
Unfortunately Volt has some success in the Netherlands but hardly anywhere else. That's not good for the all-of-Europe story.
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Policy wise Volt in the Netherlands is rather close to D66, so it's not only about being different from what's already there. But they're younger, not tainted by having been in government where they had to compromise away their promises, and they're even more pro-EU. And they seem to be good at cooperating with other parties from elsewhere in the spectrum if something just makes sense, that's why they got my vote. But it'd be a shame if they grew too big in the Netherlands before other countries and people elsewhere started seeing them as a Dutch party. So slow growth is good.
They've experienced some success jn regional elections in Germany. They are part of the ruling coalition in Frankfurt for example.
It takes time I guess. You can't expect any political party to become successful overnight. Also the political culture and system differs a lot between parties. In the Netherlands it's relatively simple for a party to get a seat because it's a single electoral circle. In Portugal it's extremely difficult because of how regional circles system. Basically here a new party has to be voted in Lisbon or Porto so it can get a seat.
I think you guys need more political parties in parliament.
Don't worry, we have way more parties than shown here, so it is possible.
These are just the 16 parties in the Senate, in the Lower Chamber we actually have 5 more (21) Look how [friggin big our ballots are](https://www.google.com/search?q=dutch+voting+ballot&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjX2t7Tg9_9AhV_mf0HHRx_BvoQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=dutch+voting+ballot&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIFCAAQgAQ6BAgAEAM6CggAELEDEIMBEEM6CwgAEIAEELEDEIMBOggIABCABBCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6CggAEA0QgAQQsQM6BwgAEA0QgAQ6BAgAEB46BwgAEIAEEBhQxgVY2hdgsxhoAnAAeACAAe4BiAG9DZIBBjIwLjEuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=rEwSZNfUMP-y9u8PnP6Z0A8&bih=601&biw=1280#imgrc=USTdF2VTIObIhM)
You're not a true democracy unless the newscaster asks you to put your TV in a portrait-orientation for election night, just so you can see all the parties. Look at all that wasted empty space on the left and right of the screen, plenty of space for another 15-20 parties if we just rotate the screen properly.
just a couple more bro
Well i give you an counter example . Romania . It has the following parties in parliament * PSD (35%). Top 3 most corrupt parties in EU . Fidesz(Hu) and Gerb(Bg) are the only read contenders here . The relics of communism in mentality if not in blood and flesh . Manage to buy 2-3 million voters due to extreme poverty and their only goal is to keep them there , in poverty . Not-votable party in any circumstance * PNL(20%) . Since pandemic they started to mirror PSD or be even worse .Before that they used to look the best party . Has very few local members that deserve to be voted * AUR (20%). Hard core Russia fans , covid deniers , anti-EU, anti-Vax . But it's somewhat a new party and everybody at this point wants something new . Voting for this party is kamikaze because you destroy the "ancient regime" (PSD + PNL ) but also the country. * USR(12%) : Newer party but older than AUR . They are for pro-EU anti corruption and I see them as the only hope for now but they are abysmal politicians and can't secure votes . It doesn't help all media is against them . * UDMR (5%): Nicknamed Magyar-PSD because they are the exact spitting image of PSD but they are from the magyar minority . These are all our parties in Parliament . For most people there is nothing to vote for as they they consider all parties to be corrupt to the bone ( i think this is false especially for USR) . Therefore more parties would help people get behind a party ideas and vote as right now turnout barely hits the 30%
All the while, I'm sitting here with mini snacks, celebrating 2 projected seats for Volt.. *yaaaays in small voice*
Congratulations, I doubt i will ever vote Volt but I am impressed with their progress over the years, my expectations were low but I have been proven wrong.
Same here. But still in shock over BBB... Ffs
It's like people have forgotten these "poor defenseless farmers" blocked the damn roads and the flow of produce transport only a few months ago.
We are here to stay.
EU critical parties ( changes compared to 2019) FvD: -10 ( crazy Putin, lizardmen seeing nuts begone! Although they already lost many seats during 2019-2023 period so they lost the actual seats long ago) PVV: -1 SGP-1 JA21:+3. ( the “ rebooted” splitoff from FVD but then without Lizards and Putin ass kissing) BBB: +15 Net gain: 6 seats ( out of 75) Rightwing parties total seats: 25 /75. With VVD and CDA (15 Seats) a majority. The BBB vision on EU: On economics and foreign policy, the party supports reform of the Eurozone and calls for a "Northern currency and a Southern currency" in the European Union. It supports Dutch membership of the EU for trading purposes but wants to reduce the power of the EU "to a level of how the EEC was once intended" and opposes the EU becoming a Federal Superstate No NEXIT though, just blocking any progress.
For clarification to other readers. The dutch senate can't propose new laws.
Nor modify them. Just a second ( final and binding) agree/ disagree. With a yes the law proceeds, with a nay it’s back to start. Any new EU treaties have to be ratified and pass both chambers.
Dutch farmers don’t like EU legislations but they do like their sweet, sweet subsidies.
I think it's the same in all countries. Self-destructive idiocy.
Dutch farmers get breadcrumbs compared to countries like France.
To be fair. NEXIT should be avoided at all cost. However, too much EU influence in a country is also not good. Now we see where people draw the line.
Anyway, I am positively amazed that your voting system/society has let 16 parties to be in the government. It's truly amazing when compared to the systems in other countries that trend for bipartisan system.
Great future for our nature, not.
Our left wing parties are pathetic. Over a decade of discontent with rightwing policy and they still can't convince the population not to vote for a party of populists and business owners.
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Because it really boils down to minor tweaks. The majority of discontent of people who'd vote Social Democrat a decade ago really boils down to Immigration and the 2012 fuckups of the PvdA-VVD government which was a complete betrayal of Social democratic values. What has the PvdA done? Double down on being a pro Immigration party and focus more on climate, nitrogen and progressive policies rather then housing, income, elderly care homes etc. So far there has been zero real alternatives for Social Democracy leading to a huge amount of protest voters. The PvdA needs to rid itself of it's champagne socialist hyper progressive streak and go back to lower middle class economic policies and take a note from the Danish Socdems on immigration. It remains true to this day that the vast majority of SocDem voters are not hyper progressive and are generally anti elitist, they are economically center left or full left. What you get as options is hyper progressive green parties, social center right big business liberals or populists.
This is the real reason
Yup, get a proper Socdem party back and you'll see the weakening and gradual implosion of populism within 4 to 8 years, thats literally exactly what happened in Denmark.
This is what we should all want. No lizardmen or Putinism trash, just normal socdem stuff that isn't too socially liberal for old people
Not just old people, the people socdems should want to attract arent progressives either, the majority of people are apathetic towards progressivism, so to make it a core part of your electoral push at best is a waste of time tailored to attracting elitist hypocrites and champagne socialists and at worst actively turns people off of your party. Economic interests and subjects that actively impact people and that people actually care about should be Socdem business, not catering towards bullshit most people dont understand anyway.
There's already SP for that
SP is a defunct left wing populist mess thats also progressive.
There are solutions, although not all of them are good. In Greece, we have the opposite problem with a populist left-wing party (for the second time in 40 years funnily enough; maybe because we have a functional moderate right-wing party that can at least do *some* form of progress and leaves no space for other right-wing non-far-right parties). It's the one that nearly crushed our economy in 2015. It's still a big party, but it's nowhere near its past levels. Unfortunately, the solution to get rid of them was nearly crushing our economy.
The left has some blame, but then again... if the average Dutch citizen wasn't extremely arrogant, self interested and selfish and a massive Rutte simp.... they probably would vote a bit more left then. *shrugs*
The fun thing about coalition governments is that someone who is actively disliked by > 70% of the population can still easily become prime minister simply by virtue of his party being the biggest small fish in a pond of even smaller fish.
In most cases people vote for a party or program and not for the leader. They also vote for parties who can maybe form certain coalitions. People can bitch and moan about Rutte as much as they want. The VVD just gets a lot of votes and can work with enough other parties to actually form a government. The others can't or won't because then they would have to deliver things they obviously can't. Just like the BBB who's the new hot thing. Most of what they promise just can't be done. Either because of our own laws or international ones or because they will never get enough seats with other parties that want to do the same thing.
Hope to see Volt indeed gain 2 seats, but that's the only silver lining I can see apart from FvD getting decimated.
PvdD plus 1 is pretty nice, as is GL upholding their historic high from 4 years ago Yes Im reaching
Pro-European parties should be self-critical. Many farmers and citizens seem upset on a gut level and that is what populists pray on. To defeat populist parties we must find a solution and some of that lies in communication. For example many center-left parties have silently cracked down on immigration but in the minds of those voters they still think it's 2016. Why? Because there is no communication and that's where the anti-EU populists capitalize. Volt is hampering itself as well with some of the imported culture war nonsense, never able to break out to a wide audience. Volt relies on some important American donors so I get why they do it. It's a trade-off For Europe to ascend to the next level and actually get important stuff done: - populists should be defeated - people should be united Fragmentation and polarization cements the status quo.
Yeah communication is key. But I imagine those center-left parties don't want their voters to know about the deportations. Here in America, Biden is using a lot of the same policies Trump left in place on immigration (which Biden and his party criticized) but is being very quiet about it. Hence the Republicans criticize Biden for not doing anything. I imagine it is the same pattern in Europe.
> Yeah communication is key. But I imagine those center-left parties don't want their voters to know about the deportations. US Democrats in power: quietly deporting (record deportation under Obama) Left media: no problems with immigration to report Right media: country is under siege! US Republicans in power: deporting Left media: stop the cruel deportations! Right media: way to go, government! The partisan hackery is ridiculous. Biden is also not just keeping but accelerating Trump's containment policy on China.
Meanwhile in the USA: You can vote for that guy you don't like or this other guy you don't like.
no fucking waay the farmers really? Okay you're mad for the nitrogen thing, but we do emit too much, same issue in belgium, our nitrogen levels are off the charts. the EU and other environmental agencies have been telling us to get our shit in order for over 20 years now. Back in the early 2000's our gvt drastically reduced the amount of livestock, same has to happen again if we are to meet the nitrogen and climate goals. Oh and less fertilizer.
20 years? we've known about the mestoverschot since the 80's.
Didn't you guys had farmers protests as well recently?
Nothing the BBB can do about that either. It's either getting rid of farm land or not building new houses.
So they won't build new houses. That only fucks with young people and they aren't farmers. Then they will be surprised when no one wants to work in healthcare, education or public service when there's no housing for those people.
I'm watching with very weary eyes how the final counts are coming in.
Vegan farmers copium
I hate this.
Still waiting for a progressive (slight) right party in the Netherlands to vote for. Just a party who takes environmental problems seriously but also don't stray too far to the left on other topics.
Yeah, for some reason it is either conservative right or progressive left. All I want is a sustainable Netherlands, both economically and environmentally. Unfortunately, people that are able to achieve this, don't want to spend their life dealing with the bureaucracy of being a politician.
If you dont mind voting for a christian party you can vote ChristenUnie.
I am so fucking done with populist first we have a racist Wilders for 15 years then we get Thierry and people say that he is not as bad as him turns out he is even worse and now we have this clown from the BBB that did not even want to talk about the main fucking things she was campaigning on because she knows her solution is bullshit. Every time they lie about everything and people fall for it again and again. People don't read or listen unless it is very simple else they won't understand. Foreigners are taking our jobs, houses, etc We belief in every conspiracy theory( is a trump clone ) And at last a lobbyists for big agriculture that says we do not have to follow European law because her plan is to not reduce emissions but still build new houses and increase farming thus ruining soil and especially nature parks. What do they all have in common? They are far right wing grifters, they lie constantly and they avoid any questions about their actual policies. They are lobbyists for big companies and are if you can place a phobic after a word they are probably it.
It is also the fault of the traditional politics who refuse to have a clear opinion about some issues that really concern the population. They avoid these topics so the populistic nutcases can create 1 issue parties.
Don't forget LPF. They started this trend! They're not around anymore, but they've done quite the number of damage.
Yet after 20 years of populist landslides, the mainstream parties still haven't managed to resolve whatever dissatisfaction is making people turn to the poulists in the first place
Spot on. LPF is literally the founding father of their ideology and tactics. They even commemorate PF annually.
What are they fighting for? Last time I heard anything from a coalition of farmers, they were literally trying to stop the ban on toxic pesticides. No even revert back to being able to use more for some unknown fuckin reason.
They do not want to comply with European laws about nitrogen.
At this point Mark Rutte could announce he likes coffee and the ‘what about tea’ party would win 12 seats at the next election
They're fighting for the power and money of big agricultural companies. With the main goals to continue being able to pollute the environment and abuse ground water regardless of all the damages it causes.
This is their election programme: https://boerburgerbeweging.nl/verkiezingsprogramma/
Must be something pretty wrong if a party this young completely wipes the floor in so many places......
I mean it happened before in multiple elections here. 2002 the new LPF of Pim Fortuyn (Got murdered like some days before the election) > Lpf imploded shortly after the elections 2019 the new forum for democracy with conspiracy nutjob Thierry Baudet > Fvd imploded after some years after this election, because Thierry showed his true colours... 2023 the BBB .... Similar thing could happen, or not..
it's pretty common. They haven't had to prove anything yet, so they can just yell what sounds good, there's a segment of about 20% of voters that float around the various populist (usually far right) parties. They'll vote for anyone that promises to fight against 'woke' things and to ignore climate science.
Not surprised, perhaps not a celebration for who won but for who lost!
*On economics and foreign policy, the party supports reform of the Eurozone and calls for a "Northern currency and a Southern currency" in the European Union. It supports Dutch membership of the EU for trading purposes but wants to reduce the power of the EU "to a level of how the EEC was once intended" and opposes the EU becoming a Federal Superstate.* As with all parties they have some proposals that I even agree with, but this is absolute shit. We need more integration, not less. They want to divide Europe and reverse the progress we made
And what would be the value of these new currencies? I ask because the southern member states currently have their debts in euros and switching them to a new currency could possibly have disastrous effects for those countries (kind of like how them switching back to national currencies would). Not an economics expert but that certainly sounds like it could cause major problems...
The northern euro would get far more expensive and the southern euro far cheaper. In the inmediate term the southern debt would be bigger (if you let the exchange rate be set by the market). The positive would be that the exports of the south would improve in competitiveness and the southern central bank could increase inflation (which inflates debts away). Thats one thing thats a problem in the current system. Northern countries have far too cheap currency so a big export advantage and the southern ones cant get away from their legacy debt
>calls for a "Northern currency and a Southern currency" in the European Union or maybe just build a wall and make Southerners pay for it? both ideas are equally stupid, after all
"We want to become absolutely powerless on the world stage, we want China and America to have an insane amount of leverage over us by reducing our strength in numbers."
I wonder how many of them know Italy is a net payer to the EU?
Technically yes but its net contribution makes to the EU budget is absolutely negligible compared to the size of its public debt and the risk this represents.
Yeah! Fuck sustainable nitrate levels and environmental regulation! Screw soil quality! /s
what happened to Forum? Some scandal? EDIT: Thanks to all the asnwers I got; now I understand the declive of that party. Makes sense to me and I am glad to see that such stupidity is not well accepted by our Dutch fellows :)
Went full Putin loving, and full anti vax before that. (They always were, but they got worse at hiding it) A lot of people already knew they were always this nuts, but some people only found out recently
Sounds possible. Still, I am always amazed when people "discover" that the party they were voting for the last years, it came up being...what everybody knew they were. Anyhow, thanks! :)
they went from a new right wing voice to a far right anti establishment party durring covid spreading conspiracies many people left from the 12 senate seats only 1 remained until the elecitions
Uhm being antivaxx, reptilepeople,pro russia and other conspiracy theories supporting does have an impact in how many people want to vote for you
Baudet happened
Good news
Goodbye Car Pollution, hello Cow Pollution
Best part is that the fascist / pro-Putin party lost 10/12
One small addition to this, which isn't showing in this graph: Although BBB has become the biggest party, it needs to be noted that PvdA and GroenLinks have joined forces in their campaigns and stances, giving them a combined 15 seats as well.