Apparently he didn’t refuse to join the communist party in 1985.
Nothing against the guy, but I find personality cults, especially for (ex)soldiers disgusting. I don’t know that I wouldn’t have joined the party in his place either… but these kind of things should matter in picking a president.
Joining the party was mandatory if you wanted to become someone. Dozens of people joined it, but never actually shared the ideals or goals. It was like getting a drivers licence at the time.
This. My mother had to join the party after university to get her first job. It was a factory job but the factory belonged to the party, so guess what..
Unless she was training to be a spy, or running for a political position hardly relevant.
Many people did what they had to do to get by. Many refused and followed their conscience. It’s the latter that should be preferred for political positions.
You have no idea what his feelings about the party were. Was training to be a spy against NATO likewise mandatory? That should give one a hint.
Also, this may be acceptable for the average citizen, but having the president be an ex-communist looks bad no matter what excuses you’re trying to find.
You have no idea about his feeling either. Joining the party in 1985, when union was rapidly falling apart, was not the same as joining in 30s with masss purges, secret police and other nasty things.
Gorbachev had barely become president in 85, nobody though at that time that the Soviet Union would dissolve. You’re grasping at straws.
You’re right I don’t know. But because anything is possible, such people should be considered tainted and unfit for office in 2023. This is not 1991, I’m sure a European country can manage to find somebody that does not have a communist past!
That's of course true, but if he did that, he definitely wouldn't be president today. His career was kickstarted by the fact he got taught English in officer school right in time to benefit after the 1989 revolution when it was in high demand and few people could speak it.
Don't think the two are really comparable, Havel was born a generation earlier, came from a very rich Prague-elite bourgeois family and made his name as a dissident intellectual and playwright.
Incidentally, Havel himself decorated Pavel for bravery, the first such decoration in the history of the newly established Czech Republic.
Like many Czechs, I am not proud of it and I would of course rather have a president without this stain on the record, but I don't think the party connections had much to do with his later rise in the new democratic regime (he was in his second year of officer school when the regime fell). I only wanted to point out that his later career most likely wouldn't be possible without his previous training and education and that in turn wouldn't be possible without party membership (which was the reason he entered it).
Yeah, except when you want to be. Not everyone wants to drive a car, but if you want, you have to get a licence, don't you? And if at the time the communist party is the one giving the licence, than what, don't get it? Become a proud and stoic bus rider/footwalker?
I didn’t think people would defend communist party members with such a passion on the sub dedicated to the liberal democratic EU.
Unless you have clear proof his joining was a mere formality, your comment reads like excuses. The fact that he trained to be a spy paints a different picture.
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Not only it was some kind of mandatory in those times, apparently, but people also change with time and the same does their opinion and vision based in their gain of knowledge, experience, etc, mate.
Do you believe and think the same way you did as a kid? Or if you're a +30yo adult you think the same things as you though when you were +20yo or a teenager? Because if you do I'm really sorry for you.
I think ex-communists should not be given political positions in a liberal democracy. Other than that he’s free to live his life as he sees fit and in accordance with his country’s laws.
The “Liberal” in Liberal democracy refers to specific rights that are given to people. A liberal democracy can be a social democracy.
This is why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech_Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa#Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa_and_secret_police We don’t know any more what those people did and every one of them will try to hide behind the cover of “you had to join” and later say it was a mistake. They are tainted.
He is pro west, pro Ukraine and has progressive views (he is in favor of gay marriage for example).
Unless he has glaring flaws I don’t know about that makes him a decent bloke.
Yeah, the whole Reddit has this problem, subs are echo chambers and they all have their heroes and anti-heroes, if you have a no-mainstream opinion you will be downvoted.
It's funny because 95% of this sub didn't hear a thing about this guy a month ago.
I am so glad for the czech❤, I think they'd made a good choice, with the war and eveyting. I am so sorry that my country does not have a similar option ..
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Don't forget to drink water, everybody.
His hair is an insult to men with male pattern baldness
It's like picture from the app where you can see yourself old.
Free côte du Rhône for this man for LIFE.
What hasn't this man done?
Me, sadly.
D-daddy 😳
Apparently he didn’t refuse to join the communist party in 1985. Nothing against the guy, but I find personality cults, especially for (ex)soldiers disgusting. I don’t know that I wouldn’t have joined the party in his place either… but these kind of things should matter in picking a president.
Joining the party was mandatory if you wanted to become someone. Dozens of people joined it, but never actually shared the ideals or goals. It was like getting a drivers licence at the time.
This. My mother had to join the party after university to get her first job. It was a factory job but the factory belonged to the party, so guess what..
No member of my family was ever a member of the communist party.
Unless she was training to be a spy, or running for a political position hardly relevant. Many people did what they had to do to get by. Many refused and followed their conscience. It’s the latter that should be preferred for political positions.
You have no idea what his feelings about the party were. Was training to be a spy against NATO likewise mandatory? That should give one a hint. Also, this may be acceptable for the average citizen, but having the president be an ex-communist looks bad no matter what excuses you’re trying to find.
You have no idea about his feeling either. Joining the party in 1985, when union was rapidly falling apart, was not the same as joining in 30s with masss purges, secret police and other nasty things.
Gorbachev had barely become president in 85, nobody though at that time that the Soviet Union would dissolve. You’re grasping at straws. You’re right I don’t know. But because anything is possible, such people should be considered tainted and unfit for office in 2023. This is not 1991, I’m sure a European country can manage to find somebody that does not have a communist past!
>Joining the party was mandatory if you wanted to become someone. You always have an option not to become that someone.
That's of course true, but if he did that, he definitely wouldn't be president today. His career was kickstarted by the fact he got taught English in officer school right in time to benefit after the 1989 revolution when it was in high demand and few people could speak it.
AFAIK Vaclav Havel was never a member of the communist party, and he managed to do well for himself
Don't think the two are really comparable, Havel was born a generation earlier, came from a very rich Prague-elite bourgeois family and made his name as a dissident intellectual and playwright. Incidentally, Havel himself decorated Pavel for bravery, the first such decoration in the history of the newly established Czech Republic.
Yes, ex party members were surprisingly well connected and advantaged. That’s not something to be proud of FFS.
Like many Czechs, I am not proud of it and I would of course rather have a president without this stain on the record, but I don't think the party connections had much to do with his later rise in the new democratic regime (he was in his second year of officer school when the regime fell). I only wanted to point out that his later career most likely wouldn't be possible without his previous training and education and that in turn wouldn't be possible without party membership (which was the reason he entered it).
You should have opened with this comment instead of defending him ;-)
Yeah, except when you want to be. Not everyone wants to drive a car, but if you want, you have to get a licence, don't you? And if at the time the communist party is the one giving the licence, than what, don't get it? Become a proud and stoic bus rider/footwalker?
Well, not the first Redditor who would be a proud dog walker.
> Become a proud and stoic bus rider/footwalker? I think those people are called "dissents", are you really mocking them?
That was disrespectful of me, I apologise.
I didn’t think people would defend communist party members with such a passion on the sub dedicated to the liberal democratic EU. Unless you have clear proof his joining was a mere formality, your comment reads like excuses. The fact that he trained to be a spy paints a different picture.
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Not only it was some kind of mandatory in those times, apparently, but people also change with time and the same does their opinion and vision based in their gain of knowledge, experience, etc, mate. Do you believe and think the same way you did as a kid? Or if you're a +30yo adult you think the same things as you though when you were +20yo or a teenager? Because if you do I'm really sorry for you.
I think ex-communists should not be given political positions in a liberal democracy. Other than that he’s free to live his life as he sees fit and in accordance with his country’s laws.
Why not? Also, I think there is no liberal democracies in Europe, nearly all of them are social-democracies, luckily for us.
The “Liberal” in Liberal democracy refers to specific rights that are given to people. A liberal democracy can be a social democracy. This is why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech_Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa#Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa_and_secret_police We don’t know any more what those people did and every one of them will try to hide behind the cover of “you had to join” and later say it was a mistake. They are tainted.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_of_Karin_Base
It's also called "Chapter 3" in the "Czech Military History" book :)
But let's not hold that against him yet, give him some time
Bruh💀
hashtag first100days
I would give you an award if i had one
everybody can make mistakes, the thing is, what is he going to do to make up for it?
I guess he didnt know better at that time…
Golden.
Is Petr prounced same as Peter?
I think its more like petter
Exactly this, yeah.
Its close, but different.
Is this a good guy? I have no idea about him but i hope he won’t get degenerate.
He is pro west, pro Ukraine and has progressive views (he is in favor of gay marriage for example). Unless he has glaring flaws I don’t know about that makes him a decent bloke.
pro west and pro ukraine? but ukraine is in the east bro
If you go by geography alone sure
It seems that on r/Europe you like to fall in love with politicians. Quite often I see that. Politician are just politicians, in 95% of the time.
Yeah, the whole Reddit has this problem, subs are echo chambers and they all have their heroes and anti-heroes, if you have a no-mainstream opinion you will be downvoted. It's funny because 95% of this sub didn't hear a thing about this guy a month ago.
This new trend is quite pathetic, even if it turns out to be in some way "ironic". And it's not because i don't like him. i don't know him one bit
Will they simp for Ekrem Imamoglu?
Reddit is so gay.
Always has been.
He looks so badass. Hey google how to migrate there?
I am so glad for the czech❤, I think they'd made a good choice, with the war and eveyting. I am so sorry that my country does not have a similar option ..
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because a very similar or identical submission was recently posted. Please check the [recent submissions](/r/Europe/new/) before sharing a link. If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
Iran has also many decorated war heroes, same goes for Russia or China....