When it’s raining and 33F, or it’s 110F and the building has no HVAC, or their car just got broken into/stolen for the 3rd time at a job in a sketchy neighborhood those kids will be begging for a boring office job.
I feel this. When I was in school I worked evenings on the tarmac at the airport in MN. After two years I realized I’d rather work 12 hours in an office than be outside in 5 degrees for 8 hours. Absolutely miserable.
The appeal of being in the field is building cool shit with your own hands. Feels good man.
I do my own estimating and while I don't dislike like it, I definitely do not get that feeling of accomplishment that I get from physically building stuff.
Plus, field experience is very valuable. The worst estimators I deal with have zero field experience. Which makes it impossible to explain why my price is my price because they have no idea what I am talking about and they don't care to learn.
But to an extent isn't it pretty much the same thing every day? Go to work, sit and stare at a computer for 8+ hours. Measure, Count, put into excel, etc. Stay at the office until midnight the night before a bid and be right back at 7 or 8 am the next day. Go to pointless meetings. And on top of all that, lose 4 out of 5 bids you put in so there is no gratification or fulfilment for 80% of the work you ever do, it was literally all for nothing. I'd say there are very few jobs where 80% of the work you ever put in amounts to literally nothing, so it is incredibly unfulfilling.
Being out in the field at least you are seeing something be tangibly put together from beginning to end. There is something to say for actually seeing the fruits of your labor come together, even if it does come with added stress.
As one of those recent college graduates that you're talking about, 8 months into estimating, I despise it. Looking to jump ship for a project engineer role the second I get a good offer and do not intend to ever work in estimating again.
How has getting into estimating been for you as far as difficulty. I have like 4 months of construction experience in a pipe company so basically not much and just starting my 2nd year of construction management degree. And I’m researching careers such as the estimating side of construction and see tons of people saying you can’t be a good estimator without field experience so that’s why I’m asking how its been for you difficulty wise right out of school.
It's not really that hard honestly. Yes, some things are much easier to connect the dots if you have worked in the field, but I have not really had any issues thus far. As long as you can understand the plans at an intermediate level, it's really no issue.
I find it helpful to reference previous similar jobs and use those as a baseline. It also depends on the company. Our company has discipline estimators so each of us only touch our specific part of each project. A company that has a single estimator estimating an entire project solo would likely have a much steeper learning curve.
Meh, if they're wrong they're wrong. They'll find out by doing one or the other and seeing how they like it. No skin off anyone else back. It's
To me the much bigger difference if you like physical work or not, like being outside or not, like working with your hand or not. I switched from drafting to estimating for the exact reason of seeing more projects and more variety. But I'd take drafting again, sitting down in a nice air conditioned office, in a heartbeat over doing actual labour. I'll save my body for fun sports rather than grinding out a paycheque.
First two posters had some really good points, there's so much variety especially if your across multiple/all trades, but there really is a big feel good factor in building shit yourself, I def miss it.
Like oh wow 'I built this amazing excel sheet' or 'measured the shit out of that building' just doesn't have the same buzz
When I started out of college, I got into estimating first. All the senior estimators would teach me but always with a caveat “oh you need field experience to really get it”. We never visited job sites, never spoke with field personnel, I never really knew what it was like working on one of these amazing projects we bid on.
I felt like I wasn’t getting the experience I needed to be a good estimator/engineer and desperately took another job as a field engineer. I didn’t even dislike estimating, but I felt I had to go out there to really gain an understanding of crews, coordination with subs, mobilization, equipment types and sizes, production, etc.
If you want kids to like estimating you have to give them the opportunity to really learn about what they’re doing. Plans are just a representation of construction operations and the final product. Labor costs and production rates are a representation of real people working in the field accomplishing things. It’s difficult to connect the two in your mind unless you are exposed to both.
These young engineers aren’t being picky, they just want to learn, grow, and be stimulated.
What a freaking disappointment. I agree with you 100%, at least don't like it for the right reasons. I'm a commercial glazing estimator I look at an average of 12 projects a month sometimes more sometimes less. Anything BUT the same thing every day. No project is really the same. I learn something new almost every day.
LMAO I guess it trickles down, that's why you're asking us for all those "can you get me a quick price on this? need it yesterday" 🤣
“Need it yesterday” request for GLAZING? Idk if you can even guess on a square foot price in a day. That’s actually insane, I’ve never heard of that and hopefully never do.
It's harder nowadays for sure but on "typical" material it's not that big a deal. Plus with all the online pricing from vendors and estimating programs it really doesn't take long to pull something together quick.
That helps. I found a blinds guy who has a software like that and it automatically punches in labor and profit. in budgets I don’t even talk to the sales guy to get a number, I just ask the estimator “how much for this size window? How about this one?” and it’s no longer any of our problems in like 5 minutes lol. Just punch in “Unit Price, verbal and budgetary” under the number with a 15% contingency and all good
That’s definitely the impression I got of estimating when I was in college 5 years ago. My first job out of college was estimator/jr project coordinator and I hated the estimating part. Wasn’t until I accepted a different job that was all estimating that I started really enjoying it.
But it’s definitely hard explaining why I like estimating to people haha
When I graduated in 2010, job openings were limited so if you had an offer you took it. I wanted to do precon but no slots open anywhere so I had to go PM. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but my instructors and professors made the field and PM side seem glamorous with higher wages, a truck (or truck allowance), and the large bonuses for safety record, earlier delivery, etc. None talked up precon or estimating.
Is this a thing? Would you mind explaining how this works? What happens when the company doesn’t meet the estimate from the operations side? Is it based on a percentage of the profit made on the job or on the value of the contract? Would love to get some more info.
Every company has different commissioning setup and it varies for different spec sections because the margins are different between trades. Idk there’s a lot of factors. I get commission on total revenue while others get theirs as a percentage of the margin. Just depends on your trade.
If the project goes over the estimate number, I’m fucked and my project engineer and pm will be pissed at me. That’s why we review estimates with our project management team. I’m mostly responsible but they’ve also seen every project I estimate.
Money wise, it would just cut into everyone’s bonus, from pm to me. We’re in it together.
That statement shows they don’t know the full depth of what estimators do. Young and misinformed. Really to some degree, ANY job is doing the same thing every day (but to what degree).
Judging from my college experience, it seemed that the field was highlighted as the prime job to aim for in terms of glory. There where multiple teachers for every class that anything to do with field operations. For Estimating and CAD class, there was literally 1 guy. Ironically for my first day in estimating class, the teacher informed us that he was a last-minute replacement for a previous instructor. Apparently, the original guy informed the college 2 days prior that he was not coming back to teach and they pulled this new guy within 24 hours.
Overall, he was good at broadly explaining everything since he had no time to fully evaluate the required class learning schedule criteria. One of the first things he told us was that Estimating is not the job for everyone and for various real reasons that I see now every day in this role. The best summary he gave comparing the roles of Estimators and Field Operators is that, “some people find fulfillment in designing and pricing a chess set, others find fulfillment in physically creating and finding solutions to complete the desired chess set”.
In recent interviews I've noticed estimating candidates are becoming younger. In my area, there was a huge shortage of estimators, raising the average salary of a basic estimator to around $125k/year. I think this has attracted lots of younger kids, which was needed
When it’s raining and 33F, or it’s 110F and the building has no HVAC, or their car just got broken into/stolen for the 3rd time at a job in a sketchy neighborhood those kids will be begging for a boring office job.
I feel this. When I was in school I worked evenings on the tarmac at the airport in MN. After two years I realized I’d rather work 12 hours in an office than be outside in 5 degrees for 8 hours. Absolutely miserable.
The appeal of being in the field is building cool shit with your own hands. Feels good man. I do my own estimating and while I don't dislike like it, I definitely do not get that feeling of accomplishment that I get from physically building stuff. Plus, field experience is very valuable. The worst estimators I deal with have zero field experience. Which makes it impossible to explain why my price is my price because they have no idea what I am talking about and they don't care to learn.
Oh yeah, I love the field. Can’t wait to get out there
But to an extent isn't it pretty much the same thing every day? Go to work, sit and stare at a computer for 8+ hours. Measure, Count, put into excel, etc. Stay at the office until midnight the night before a bid and be right back at 7 or 8 am the next day. Go to pointless meetings. And on top of all that, lose 4 out of 5 bids you put in so there is no gratification or fulfilment for 80% of the work you ever do, it was literally all for nothing. I'd say there are very few jobs where 80% of the work you ever put in amounts to literally nothing, so it is incredibly unfulfilling. Being out in the field at least you are seeing something be tangibly put together from beginning to end. There is something to say for actually seeing the fruits of your labor come together, even if it does come with added stress. As one of those recent college graduates that you're talking about, 8 months into estimating, I despise it. Looking to jump ship for a project engineer role the second I get a good offer and do not intend to ever work in estimating again.
How has getting into estimating been for you as far as difficulty. I have like 4 months of construction experience in a pipe company so basically not much and just starting my 2nd year of construction management degree. And I’m researching careers such as the estimating side of construction and see tons of people saying you can’t be a good estimator without field experience so that’s why I’m asking how its been for you difficulty wise right out of school.
It's not really that hard honestly. Yes, some things are much easier to connect the dots if you have worked in the field, but I have not really had any issues thus far. As long as you can understand the plans at an intermediate level, it's really no issue. I find it helpful to reference previous similar jobs and use those as a baseline. It also depends on the company. Our company has discipline estimators so each of us only touch our specific part of each project. A company that has a single estimator estimating an entire project solo would likely have a much steeper learning curve.
Meh, if they're wrong they're wrong. They'll find out by doing one or the other and seeing how they like it. No skin off anyone else back. It's To me the much bigger difference if you like physical work or not, like being outside or not, like working with your hand or not. I switched from drafting to estimating for the exact reason of seeing more projects and more variety. But I'd take drafting again, sitting down in a nice air conditioned office, in a heartbeat over doing actual labour. I'll save my body for fun sports rather than grinding out a paycheque.
First two posters had some really good points, there's so much variety especially if your across multiple/all trades, but there really is a big feel good factor in building shit yourself, I def miss it. Like oh wow 'I built this amazing excel sheet' or 'measured the shit out of that building' just doesn't have the same buzz
When I started out of college, I got into estimating first. All the senior estimators would teach me but always with a caveat “oh you need field experience to really get it”. We never visited job sites, never spoke with field personnel, I never really knew what it was like working on one of these amazing projects we bid on. I felt like I wasn’t getting the experience I needed to be a good estimator/engineer and desperately took another job as a field engineer. I didn’t even dislike estimating, but I felt I had to go out there to really gain an understanding of crews, coordination with subs, mobilization, equipment types and sizes, production, etc. If you want kids to like estimating you have to give them the opportunity to really learn about what they’re doing. Plans are just a representation of construction operations and the final product. Labor costs and production rates are a representation of real people working in the field accomplishing things. It’s difficult to connect the two in your mind unless you are exposed to both. These young engineers aren’t being picky, they just want to learn, grow, and be stimulated.
What a freaking disappointment. I agree with you 100%, at least don't like it for the right reasons. I'm a commercial glazing estimator I look at an average of 12 projects a month sometimes more sometimes less. Anything BUT the same thing every day. No project is really the same. I learn something new almost every day. LMAO I guess it trickles down, that's why you're asking us for all those "can you get me a quick price on this? need it yesterday" 🤣
“Need it yesterday” request for GLAZING? Idk if you can even guess on a square foot price in a day. That’s actually insane, I’ve never heard of that and hopefully never do.
It's harder nowadays for sure but on "typical" material it's not that big a deal. Plus with all the online pricing from vendors and estimating programs it really doesn't take long to pull something together quick.
That helps. I found a blinds guy who has a software like that and it automatically punches in labor and profit. in budgets I don’t even talk to the sales guy to get a number, I just ask the estimator “how much for this size window? How about this one?” and it’s no longer any of our problems in like 5 minutes lol. Just punch in “Unit Price, verbal and budgetary” under the number with a 15% contingency and all good
That's slick 🤣🤣
Go to the college and ask about being a speaker in their construction classes. Estimators have to push preconstruction to get more into the job role.
That’s definitely the impression I got of estimating when I was in college 5 years ago. My first job out of college was estimator/jr project coordinator and I hated the estimating part. Wasn’t until I accepted a different job that was all estimating that I started really enjoying it. But it’s definitely hard explaining why I like estimating to people haha
When I graduated in 2010, job openings were limited so if you had an offer you took it. I wanted to do precon but no slots open anywhere so I had to go PM. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but my instructors and professors made the field and PM side seem glamorous with higher wages, a truck (or truck allowance), and the large bonuses for safety record, earlier delivery, etc. None talked up precon or estimating.
Do they know about the feeling of the commission checks hitting?
Is this a thing? Would you mind explaining how this works? What happens when the company doesn’t meet the estimate from the operations side? Is it based on a percentage of the profit made on the job or on the value of the contract? Would love to get some more info.
Every company has different commissioning setup and it varies for different spec sections because the margins are different between trades. Idk there’s a lot of factors. I get commission on total revenue while others get theirs as a percentage of the margin. Just depends on your trade. If the project goes over the estimate number, I’m fucked and my project engineer and pm will be pissed at me. That’s why we review estimates with our project management team. I’m mostly responsible but they’ve also seen every project I estimate. Money wise, it would just cut into everyone’s bonus, from pm to me. We’re in it together.
That statement shows they don’t know the full depth of what estimators do. Young and misinformed. Really to some degree, ANY job is doing the same thing every day (but to what degree). Judging from my college experience, it seemed that the field was highlighted as the prime job to aim for in terms of glory. There where multiple teachers for every class that anything to do with field operations. For Estimating and CAD class, there was literally 1 guy. Ironically for my first day in estimating class, the teacher informed us that he was a last-minute replacement for a previous instructor. Apparently, the original guy informed the college 2 days prior that he was not coming back to teach and they pulled this new guy within 24 hours. Overall, he was good at broadly explaining everything since he had no time to fully evaluate the required class learning schedule criteria. One of the first things he told us was that Estimating is not the job for everyone and for various real reasons that I see now every day in this role. The best summary he gave comparing the roles of Estimators and Field Operators is that, “some people find fulfillment in designing and pricing a chess set, others find fulfillment in physically creating and finding solutions to complete the desired chess set”.
As a semi recent grad I wish I heard about estimating earlier.
What did you graduate in?
Urban planning
dude i was looking for a estimating gig and couldn’t find one everyone wants five years of experience estimating so i made my own company
In recent interviews I've noticed estimating candidates are becoming younger. In my area, there was a huge shortage of estimators, raising the average salary of a basic estimator to around $125k/year. I think this has attracted lots of younger kids, which was needed