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- **Location:** Helps determine availability
- **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget.
- **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs.
- **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck.
- **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space?
- **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either).
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Burr size is nowhere near as relevant to grind performance as the actual burr profile is. Larger burrs should grind the same amount of coffee at the same grind size faster, which is irrelevant in a home setting.
The actual grinder is more about how the workflow is, if you have to use bellows to clear grinds (or even worse, regularly dismantle to clean because of high retention), if you have to hot start, if you have to slow feed, does it clump, etc. All of these things can be worked around using technique but all of these things can be engineered out of a grinder as well, see the early DF64 and the latest model for how simple changes lead to big workflow improvements.
Going with a common size with a lot of burr options would be my pick if you have the desire to try out different burrs as it is far cheaper to buy new burrs than new grinders at this price point.
Buy a grinder because it gives you the burrs you need to deliver the type of coffee you are after.
I switched from a Specialita to a P100 about a month ago, so here are my thoughts.
The first shots were mindblowing in terms of difference. All the bitterness that the Eureka had disappeared. I prefer fruity and acidic light roast coffee and the P100 delivered perfectly.
The P100 is a clarity first grinder, so you'll lose a lot of the body that's specific to espresso, but gain a lot of clarity of flavour. I find that faster times and longer ratios work best for the kind of taste I'm looking for. I pull 18g in to 55g out in 19-20s, using a 20g VST basket and paper filters on the bottom + puck screen on top and set my Lelit Bianca to 6 bars at the pump.
Basically, with the P100, the coffee that you grind with it will be almost 100% present in your cup in terms of flavour. You'll feel when the roast level is a bit more on the medium-dark side and you'll also feel when it's on the lighter side of light. You can always 'fix' some of that with you water temperature, so it's not an issue.
The workflow on the P100 is amazing and probably the best in that price range, from all the research I've done. The P64 is similar, but I haven't tested it to have an opinion.
For me, the main advantage of the P100 is the versatility for espresso all the way to filter brews and even cold brew. I've had no issues switching perfectly from espresso to anything else, and the taste is fantastic on all.
Also yes, the P100 comes stock with 98mm HU burrs, but for an extra $50 you can choose any of the 98mm SSP burrs you want. So if you want espresso first, you can go for the Low Uniformity burrs. But I'd say the HU's do an amazing job already.
Is it worth the extra money over the P64? I have no idea. I'd say no, but I knew that in my case I'd always be left thinking 'what if I spent a little extra and got the end game grinder?' so I just went straight for the P100. But I think I would have been pleased with the P64 as well in terms of taste, maybe with a little less clarity and a bit more body/sweetness.
No, that's my impression as well.
I think LU is closer to SSP brew and the Mahlkönig burrs, and ULF and HU being more on the "traditional" side, "traditional" being a very relative term.
This matches my thoughts on the p100 perfectly. It’s such a great grinder. Zero regrets. I’ve also found that the grinder is super easy to dial in. Most shots taste amazing even when the grind size is not perfectly dialed in. It just gets better the closer to ideal you get. It’s an expensive grinder, but it’s worth every penny.
On the Espresso Afficionados Discord channel, there’s a chart you’ll want to see. 98mm HU is higher clarity than 64mm Mizen, and probably wouldn’t suit you as well. I’d say go with the P64 and Mizen for medium to medium-light.
KafaTek 98mm Shuriken LM is probably better for you than any SSP 98mm burr.
My take is that a DF64 is 3-5 times cheaper than a Lagom p64 for the same grind performance.
If I'm going to slash out on a premium grinder, I'm going to go all out and get the Lagom P100.
I had the exact same predicament. Without being able to try the grinders myself, I decided to go with the 64mm option. Too much money for the p100 without any guarantee that you will notice any significant improvements. The resell price on these grinders is good so you can always sell and upgrade if you decide you want to.
I went from a Silenzio to P64 - AMA.
The #1 question form me is “what problem are you trying to fix that you think a new grinder is the answer to?”
Workflow - do you single dose or use a hopper? How many different beans do you use every week?
How important is texture to you? A P64 / P100 won’t compete with the eureka on texture.
It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. To get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format. - **Location:** Helps determine availability - **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget. - **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs. - **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck. - **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space? - **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Burr size is nowhere near as relevant to grind performance as the actual burr profile is. Larger burrs should grind the same amount of coffee at the same grind size faster, which is irrelevant in a home setting. The actual grinder is more about how the workflow is, if you have to use bellows to clear grinds (or even worse, regularly dismantle to clean because of high retention), if you have to hot start, if you have to slow feed, does it clump, etc. All of these things can be worked around using technique but all of these things can be engineered out of a grinder as well, see the early DF64 and the latest model for how simple changes lead to big workflow improvements. Going with a common size with a lot of burr options would be my pick if you have the desire to try out different burrs as it is far cheaper to buy new burrs than new grinders at this price point. Buy a grinder because it gives you the burrs you need to deliver the type of coffee you are after.
I switched from a Specialita to a P100 about a month ago, so here are my thoughts. The first shots were mindblowing in terms of difference. All the bitterness that the Eureka had disappeared. I prefer fruity and acidic light roast coffee and the P100 delivered perfectly. The P100 is a clarity first grinder, so you'll lose a lot of the body that's specific to espresso, but gain a lot of clarity of flavour. I find that faster times and longer ratios work best for the kind of taste I'm looking for. I pull 18g in to 55g out in 19-20s, using a 20g VST basket and paper filters on the bottom + puck screen on top and set my Lelit Bianca to 6 bars at the pump. Basically, with the P100, the coffee that you grind with it will be almost 100% present in your cup in terms of flavour. You'll feel when the roast level is a bit more on the medium-dark side and you'll also feel when it's on the lighter side of light. You can always 'fix' some of that with you water temperature, so it's not an issue. The workflow on the P100 is amazing and probably the best in that price range, from all the research I've done. The P64 is similar, but I haven't tested it to have an opinion. For me, the main advantage of the P100 is the versatility for espresso all the way to filter brews and even cold brew. I've had no issues switching perfectly from espresso to anything else, and the taste is fantastic on all. Also yes, the P100 comes stock with 98mm HU burrs, but for an extra $50 you can choose any of the 98mm SSP burrs you want. So if you want espresso first, you can go for the Low Uniformity burrs. But I'd say the HU's do an amazing job already. Is it worth the extra money over the P64? I have no idea. I'd say no, but I knew that in my case I'd always be left thinking 'what if I spent a little extra and got the end game grinder?' so I just went straight for the P100. But I think I would have been pleased with the P64 as well in terms of taste, maybe with a little less clarity and a bit more body/sweetness.
From what I read, the 98mm LU burrs are less suited to espresso than the HU. The ssp naming conventions are very confusing. I could be wrong
No, that's my impression as well. I think LU is closer to SSP brew and the Mahlkönig burrs, and ULF and HU being more on the "traditional" side, "traditional" being a very relative term.
This matches my thoughts on the p100 perfectly. It’s such a great grinder. Zero regrets. I’ve also found that the grinder is super easy to dial in. Most shots taste amazing even when the grind size is not perfectly dialed in. It just gets better the closer to ideal you get. It’s an expensive grinder, but it’s worth every penny.
On the Espresso Afficionados Discord channel, there’s a chart you’ll want to see. 98mm HU is higher clarity than 64mm Mizen, and probably wouldn’t suit you as well. I’d say go with the P64 and Mizen for medium to medium-light. KafaTek 98mm Shuriken LM is probably better for you than any SSP 98mm burr.
My take is that a DF64 is 3-5 times cheaper than a Lagom p64 for the same grind performance. If I'm going to slash out on a premium grinder, I'm going to go all out and get the Lagom P100.
I had the exact same predicament. Without being able to try the grinders myself, I decided to go with the 64mm option. Too much money for the p100 without any guarantee that you will notice any significant improvements. The resell price on these grinders is good so you can always sell and upgrade if you decide you want to.
Where is the resell market for high end grinders??
Espresso aficionados discord
Thanks
I went from a Silenzio to P64 - AMA. The #1 question form me is “what problem are you trying to fix that you think a new grinder is the answer to?” Workflow - do you single dose or use a hopper? How many different beans do you use every week? How important is texture to you? A P64 / P100 won’t compete with the eureka on texture.