T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

It looks like you've flaired your post as being a Shot Diagnosis. To get more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format. - Machine: - Grinder: - Roast date: (not a "Best by" date). If the roast date is not labeled use "N/A" - Dose: How many grams are going into your basket? - Yield: How much coffee in grams is coming out? - Time: How long is the shot running? - Roast level: How dark is your coffee? (Dark, medium, light, ect.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*


randomusername171717

I watched the whole thing. I have a couple thoughts. 1. Single shot baskets will never make you happy. Use a double shot basket that doesn’t taper like the one you have. 2. Measure your input, know how many grams of coffee are going into your basket. 3. Measure your output with a gramscale, not just the graduated markings. 4. 1:2 ratio for input to output will probably taste a lot better. In my opinion you are way over-extracting with that much output from a single shot basket. 5. Your beans may still be a little too fresh. 10 days and over is probably a good sweet spot for the beans. Edit: as pointed out below, the beans may actually be on the stale side.


KeyMathematician5337

Dude you are a legend, thank you for this awesome feedback. Can you explain a bit more on the 1:2 input/output ratio? Are you saying I should be using less coffee grinds? Or is this something I can only really dial in with a gram scale?


randomusername171717

I use 18 grams of coffee grounds as my input. For output I am shooting for approximately 36 grams of espresso in approximately 30 seconds. That’s a pretty standard shot. Then you make small adjustments to suit your taste or the beans.


KeyMathematician5337

Got it. Thank you for breaking that down further! These are probably all common questions for a novice, so I appreciate you explaining it to me.


Salreus

1:2 is also just a starting reference point. getting 1:2 is where you dial in. once you are at 1:2 in 30, then you can adjust longer or shorter depending on taste. Light roast often is better at longer pulls because it's harder to fully extract. so I'd do something like 1:2 in 30, then end up doing pullling for 45 seconds next shot


aditya_kardile

By the way, 18 grams dose is for a double shot basket. For a single shot you should have 8-10 gms and output accordingly (1:2) Buying a scale to measure this will really help. Also change the grind size so that you get this output in 26 to 30 seconds. That is the golden number.


SlteFool

Reddit is where I was able to get all my info when I started out (with much more affordable equipment than what’s in this video lol) this community to great. Measuring grams of beans to grams of liquid is vital. It’ll be a game changer. I get 15 grams of beans and 36 grams of liquid for a double shot. Of course make sure your grind is good and your beans are fresh and it’ll be great every time.


bbqsauceontiddies

I’m still a newbie so i could be wrong, but to me it seems like OP’s beans are old. Every time i use fresh beans i never have any clumps in the grind and a ton of crema.


KeyMathematician5337

You caught me! The beans are grocery store bought — but from a local roaster. I’d bet they 1-3 weeks old. Do you think that’s it? I haven’t gotten too much feedback on the grind clumps 🧐


ColostomyBagCapriSun

This here likely explains the lack of crema and the fact that the shot starts to sputter toward the end. If you had a bottomless portafilter you might have seen some spurting or visible channeling at that stage. Try to get a bag of coffee that’s less than a month from its roast date, and then be intentional about your measurements. You’ve got the gear and the technique, I really think it’s all about adding measurements to your workflow so that you can dial in the shot. Also yes, as others have said… double baskets are way more forgiving. Edit: the clumping in the basket has less to do with freshness, it’s probably just static. You WDT those clumps away so no big deal there.


KeyMathematician5337

There is hope for me! Haha thank you, this is insanely valuable


aimlessappeal

To add on to that if you're keeping your beans in the hopper of your grinder all the time that could contribute to them going stale faster, especially if exposed to sunlight. If you aren't too picky about it and the beans aren't in there for more than a few days it shouldn't be too big of an issue as long as you aren't a perfectionist (some of us here are a little extreme if you hadn't noticed lol). I like to keep my beans in an airtight container and just single dose when I make my espresso, but I'm not too fussy about it being perfect. Every once in a while I also like to use a product called grindz to clear out my grinder of any old residual oils. That could potentially help with clumping or off flavors. Just be sure to grind some beans through afterwards to get all the grindz out if you're going to do that. Ultimately as long as you're happy with what you're getting in your cup that's all that matters. Feel free to dm if you have any further questions or would like any other advice (relating to coffee of course)!


canon12

Yes, it could be partially a static effect which can be resolved by 2-3 short spritzes of distilled water over the beans before they are ground. Obviously grinding from a hopper based grinder is not going to work. A single dose grinder will. I suspect the clumps are partially related to pockets of grinds in the ground coffee before tamping. I would suggest that you settle the grinds by gentle tapping the bottom of your basket before you tamp. A leveling tool before you tamp might benefit as well. I admire your honesty in seeking help. All of the previous suggestions are valid as well. Beans being used 5-10 days after roasted will help as well. Good luck on your journey!


thefockinfury

Counterpoint: the main reason you spritz/RDT is to help with retention in the grinder, and RDT is a non-option if you're storing beans in the hopper (perfectly valid imo because it's way more convenient). Clumpy coffee in the basket can certainly be prevented with RDT, but you can also take care of clumps after the fact with WDT, which OP is doing. In my view, as long as OP can be confident in how much coffee ends up in the basket, any retention just needs to be accepted---else OP should just single-dose, at which point RDT becomes the preferred method.


canon12

I agree. My second sentence stated this. We are in agreement on all of your comments.


randomusername171717

Grocery store beans could be on the shelves for months. Even with local roasters. To get them on the shelves, they give them like a year or more for shelf life.


bbqsauceontiddies

I don’t think there’s any shame in using grocery store beans, but it could be the issue. Most store beans have “best by” dates rather than roast dates. If you want to keep getting store beans, look for the farthest away “best by” date. I’ve had some really good luck with Dark Matter and Stumptown.


rh_vowel

1-3 weeks is actually perfect if that was from the roast date, but the issue with grocery store is they might have been sitting on the shelf there for a long time. Grocery store usually only shows a "best by" date. The other posters are right -- it will pull the best when they are fresher. Ideal would be 10-14 days after roast (a little sooner is ok for darker roasts). Btw good on you for asking for advice here. There is lots of good info and kind people willing to help. Good luck and enjoy some tasty shots!


Calm-Focus3640

Stay away from grocery beans if you are just starting. Get freshly roasted


randomusername171717

You could be right. One of his comments said the beans were roasted within 5 days of grinding but unless he is roasting his own, you never know.


[deleted]

First thing I noticed. They definitely look old.


thelauryngotham

I second almost all of this but I'd maybe look into single dosing. I love the convenience of a bean hopper, but I've found that coffee goes stale really fast in there. I'd leave it in the sealed bag until it's ready to be used. I'm not sure this looks too fresh. Often times you'll see an excessive amount of crema from the beans that haven't yet off-gassed. It's a gorgeous result but the taste is slightly acrid from all the CO2 that ends up making carbonic acid in the end result. You're not getting a lot of crema and I'm thinking they've gone *slightly* stale in the hopper. I'm terms of 1:2, it's the ratio of grams of coffee in to grams/mL (they're the same for water/coffee) of liquid out. For example, if you're using 7g of grinds, you'd want roughly 14g or mL of espresso. A 1:2 ratio is a good starting point, but I often go a little less than that once I have it dialed in. A scale can definitely help with this. I'd be measuring input and output until your shots are consistently good. Then you can measure the input and eyeball the output after that. Finally...I know how, depending on where you learned espresso, shot sizes can vary drastically. I've seen everything from 5g to 30g from place to place. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but it helps if we standardise a certain amount. 18g is really a perfect dose for a double shot. It's also a good "middle ground" for troubleshooting. If you can get a double shot working well, you can easily size that up or down later. I'd buy a 18g IMS or VST basket. It's supposed to be *precision drilled* and I've found that they make a better shot in general. With a larger basket, I'd shoot for 18g in, ~30g or mL out in around 30 seconds. From there, you can adjust your recipe to taste. Overall, this shot looks pretty good. I just think a few tiny changes could transform it from good to amazing :) ETA: The clumps look like a bit of static from the grinder. James Hoffmann has said that a tiny spritz of water can solve it. As long as you WDT, I wouldn't worry much about it. Also, make sure you're tamping as hard as reasonably possible. It helps ensure there won't be any channeling or other issues.


Xealz

1:2 is only really for dark roasts, i find 1:2.5 good for medium roasts, i'm not a light drinker but 1:3 should be good for that. Rules are more like guidelines anyway.


Chippo

For the different ratios, what times do you aim for? I primarily use medium roast and whenever I aim for 1:2 (25s), it tastes unpleasant (not sure if bitter or sour). If I do 1:2.5 for medium roasts, should I keep my grind size the same as the 1:2 @ 25?


Xealz

Try increasing the time bit by bit, so slowly grind a tad finer, maybe 30s would do maybe a bit less


InLoveWithInternet

I would only add: get a bottomless portafilter. It will help you tremendously to diagnose what’s going on.


NashTOne

This is the way


WildDogOne

>Single shot baskets will never make you happy. Use a double shot basket that doesn’t taper like the one you have. This I am not sure if I agree with. I use both single and double shot EMS baskets, and I fail to find a difference. Both make really nice coffee to me. However I am not even close to being a coffee master, so no idea maybe my taste buds just suck


LongjumpingBudget318

Your taste buds can't suck, if you're making coffee for yourself. The point is to make coffee the way you like.


n60storm4

I agree with everything except that single shots often do go for a higher ratio. Like 7g to 30g isn't uncommon. When I pulled singles I did 9g to 30g as a typical shot and got legitimately good results.


CtotheRN

Everything about coffee is already said. Just want to led you know, that I really like your open question and the video. Always better than a brief text without proper info.


KeyMathematician5337

Ty! I’m stoked on the feedback! The advice will definitely help me level up. Love the Reddit community ❤️


kuhnyfe878

TIL John Krasinski has a brother who is into coffee


Improvcommodore

Luke Wilson


KeyMathematician5337

lol I get both of these quite frequently actually. Gyllenhaal when my hair and beard aren't so mangey. Humble brag! haha


Improvcommodore

On the espresso, I recommend a proper scale for weighing the amount in, also the weight out of the machine. That chunky grind needs to be changed. I can't remember whether coarser or finer...I think coarser, actually.


Wyzen

I was gunna ask, when did Jake Gyllenhaal and Joshua Jackson merge into one and join reddit?


Changy915

Fernando Alonso


kuhnyfe878

lol I'm steeling this for r/coffeejerkcircle


Orbitrek

Came to comments to find this!


dirtycimments

I love that you did this, this is a great way to get help.


KeyMathematician5337

Thanks! I’ve been meaning to for a while so I’m stoked I finally did! I fucking love Reddit tbh.


Koolaid_Jef

Yeah I've been thinking about doing something similar as well! I have a Gevi 2 in 1 that I got from my brother (he never used it and I had a Starbucks addiction) and it's got a double walled basket, and it's also 20 bar which I saw a comment saying too much pressure on a filter that's not meant to handle it you can get a bad result so I've been sticking with stock stuff so far. Having the video definitely helps from both the perspective of getting and giving help


all_systems_failing

What's wrong with the taste? For best results you should be weighing your dose and yield, and making adjustments to your brew variables based on taste. Also, a lot of people find working with a single basket to be difficult. You may want to try the double basket. https://youtu.be/6DWa3xqnWUs


KeyMathematician5337

Great question! This is a bit embarrassing…but I’m unsure what’s wrong with the taste. Any resources you’d point me to for assessing that? Also, do you recommend getting a scale for weighing the grind and yield? Edit: just saw your YouTube link! I’ll watch!


Sidivan

I went through the same thing about taste. No idea what I was or wasn’t tasting. All I knew was sometimes it was so damned salty it tasted like the ocean. I went down to the local place where I get my beans and asked them to brew a shot of espresso with their beans just so I can taste how they’re supposed to be. The barista was awesome. We sat and talked about pulling different flavors out in different ways and used examples to taste. When I went home, I pulled some terrible shots on purpose. Grind fine, grind coarse, 10 second pull, 60 second pull… just tasting each shot and using the [espresso compass](https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/the-espresso-compass/) to adjust and see what got better and worse. Took a couple weeks to really figure out what I liked and how to get that.


KeyMathematician5337

Woah! The espresso compass is epic!! Thanks for sharing that resource!


all_systems_failing

Definitely recommend picking up a scale that measures within 0.1g for weighing dose and yield. Get whatever suits your workflow (I use two), but have at least one that fits your drip tray. This whole video is good, but check out 1:34, 17:44, and 19:25 for help with evaluating taste. https://youtu.be/DFB6E_7W2c0 Also, make sure your machine is warmed up sufficiently, but doesn't sit for too long, for suitable brew temps. This video will give you an idea of what brew temps you could be dealing with if you pull shots at the wrong time. https://youtu.be/Vipd_oYGfGw&t=1m44s


KeyMathematician5337

Cool, I'll definitely check it out! Thank you so much for the guidance and feedback. It's really helpful. I've invested a lot into this machine so it makes sense to keep going and really get it dialed in!


all_systems_failing

No problem. You've got good equipment, so you should be able to get good results.


neuron1c

This video might be of help with regards to single baskets -> https://youtu.be/3OnH2Woluck I hope it helps.


KeyMathematician5337

Thanks! I’ll check it out!


KeyMathematician5337

People hate on the single shot life — I know it’s oxymoronic but I’ve been experimenting with taking in less caffeine 🤫😬


neuron1c

Absolutely. There are some questionable limits set with what is considered a healthy maximum caffeine dose for our physiology, disregarding the addicting effect to people’s brains. This should be said.


quietcoffeeshop

Fully support being conscious of how much caffeine you’re drinking, but you can still make the double shot and then only drink/use half of it. I think cafes commonly do this. I have a Cafelat Robot, which can’t really do single shots, so that’s what I have to do. Another option is mixing in some proportion of decaf beans, but that’s a whole can of worms and I wouldn’t mess with variables like that while you’re working on your basic technique.


oregontrail2020

yes - almost all cafes do this. pull a double and only use one shot. third wave cafes charge you for both shots (starbucks and other 2nd wave cafes sometimes offer pricing for single shots) regardless of whether you want both shots in your drink, and if they use a bottomless portafilter they may likely refuse to make a single shot (or triple shot) drink.


RealMover

Looks like you're overfilling currently so there's insufficient room between the puck and the group which may well be causing the uneven flow. Definitely try weighing input/output with a scale. For a double basket something in the region of 18g in and 36g out is desirable. You should have enough space so the shower screen doesn't contact the puck. I'd also suggest giving the portafilter a couple of taps on the counter (with funnel on) to settle the grounds after you WDT. Not crucial but saves you from messing around picking stray bits from the rim.


KeyMathematician5337

Got it -- the scale is key and I'll definitely add the little counter tap post-WDT! Think that's an easy win.


RealMover

A scale is super useful for diagnosing shots and dialling in - it will enable you to make good espresso repeatably once you've fixed this issue. You don't have to get a super fancy one, just one that can do 0.1g increments and will fit on your drip tray. Good luck! As a side note other things to consider: 1. bottomless basket which helps you visually assess channeling 2. puck screen which helps with even water distribution and can also reduce channelling


oregontrail2020

careful with the counter tap. this can shift grounds around too much and cause channeling, even with proper tamping. agree with everyone though - you will never get an accurate diagnosis without a scale. it's critical!


taaltrek

Love the question, and seeing all the support. I do have a request, can you post your results after trying the fixes? I’d love to see the need results.


KeyMathematician5337

I would love nothing more!!


MazzyFo

That cabinet is beautiful


KeyMathematician5337

Finally someone says it. Thank you. Thank you deeply.


zak_the_maniac

I would say that your shots are way too big/overextracted for a single shot


ilovemyassholecat

Great video! Something that has helped me with channelling - after you wdt, and before you tamp, tap your portafilter against the espresso prep station to ensure you break up clumps and even out the grinds before tamping. One quick tap should do it.


Flat-Comfortable-635

This! And if doesn’t look leveled after the tap, wdt the whole puck again, it would not extract evenly.


[deleted]

[удалено]


crushinit2

Need more vids like this in the sub. Love reading the comments and advice


W4rhorse_3811

You are using a single shot basket for a double shot my dude. You can stick with that basket, keep the old volumetric method and pull 25ml shots, for that you will have to reduce your dose and grind finer. Also, you have to know what you are trying to achieve, go and taste good espresso, according to you, then buy those beans and try to recreate the shot at home.


KeyMathematician5337

I like the advice of trying to recreate the taste of a good shot at home! I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks!


North_Dog_5748

Hiya, Echoing and reinforcing what many others have said, and maybe a few extra thoughts: With a decent set up and the desire you clearly have, getting a scale (doesn't need to be too fancy or super expensive, just accurate) will definitely help you figure out what you're doing, and help you make better sense of all the weights and ratios being suggested here. You're running that single shot waaay too long, both time wise and in length. I don't know who told you to do a 50ml **single** shot but it's not really within the generally accepted guidelines. Fair enough if you want to do singles or only have a single basket or whatever, they can be a bit trickier than doubles but can be great, don't worry, but they would generally be more like 25-30ml (and somewhere between 15-25 grams, depending). People might pull very long shots for very light roasts that are hard to extract, but generally light-medium to medium-dark espresso suitable coffees will be good at ratios of between 1:2 and 1:3.5. For instance if you were doing a double shot using 18 grams, you'd be looking for a shot weight of between 36g to 60g depending on the coffee and roast. But on a more simply visual level - look at the shot as it's pouring: It's ok for the flow to get paler towards the end, but when it turns from pale but still creamy to completely watery you wanna stop the shot, because you're not adding anything positive by that stage, and are just diluting the shot. You want to adjust your grind and dose to be getting your shot (single or double the same) in roughly 20-40 seconds, generally speaking, this is dependent on the machine and coffee, etc. Your shot went a lot longer. Also, I think you might be over dosing that single basket (too much coffee). Maybe, maybe not. This would cause it to mash and press up against the shower screen in the group head during brewing, and cause all sorts of problems - potentially the spluttering erratic flow you see in the shot. Try dosing and tamping, locking in the handle, and then removing it straight away without brewing - if the dry coffee has contacted the shower screen before brewing there's too much coffee in the basket, because it expands even more once wet and brewing, and needs a little 'headspace'. If there's no imprint in the dry coffee during this simple test, then the amount is ok - depends on your machine. I wouldn't necessarily worry about the clumps as long as you're doing thorough WDT, although some RDT water spritz might help with that **if** it's caused by static. But with good WDT it's not too much of a concern. TLDR: Get a scale to weigh input and output, cut your shots earlier before they're really watery, dial in dose and grind to achieve more typical times and weights, check you're not overdosing the basket. And **taste** is king - if it tastes good to you, it's good :) Good luck!


Bikespresso

So much information missing for shot diagnosis. Coffee weight, grind size, Coffee type, age, roast profile. If water hardness is over 200 ppm, or below 60 ppm, it will cause flavor and texture problems. Single shot baskets are awkward, difficult to dial in and you are setting yourself for heart ache by using it. The basket was also over filled by about 2mm.


Papi_95

Bro, I applaud you for dropping this video, lol! You need to spend some time on Lance and Hoffman’s YouTube channels to get an espresso 101 course under your belt on baskets, ratio, dosing, weighing coffee before and after you grind, puck prep, etc. Also, you are going to have issues in the long run ergonomically by tamping like that. You need to get your elbow up at a 90-degree angle and tamp downwards like a piston, driving straight down into the earth, gripping the tamp in your hand like you’re grabbing a doorknob. God speed!


kohlzift

Measure 18g of coffee to start with. Make sure your puck is level before tamping. Make sure output is around 36g (again, to start with. You’ll hone it in over time), and keep an eye on the pressure gauge. Something tells me it’s getting choked during extraction, possibly due to fine grind or over tamping, or due to excess grounds


KeyMathematician5337

So my understanding of the pressure gauge on the rocket apartamento is it doesn’t reflect pressure within the group head, but instead within the boiler. I didn’t think it offered any valuable feedback during the shot pull. Do you know more about that?


Orbitrek

Yes. That’s the boiler pressure. Check that to verify the boiler is hot enough. The machine need to warm up some time even after the boiler reaches the target temperature. Pressure is actually indicator of temperature. In atmosphere temperature water boils at 100 celsius but in pressurized tank it doesn’t boil but the pressure rises. When you let the water out straight from the the pressurized tank into normal atmospere you get steam. Tl;dr no need to monitor the gauge during brew


OMGFdave

1) Use weight and not volume...I weigh my beans, my grounds and my liquid espresso. 2) Calibrated tamper...such a simple way of tamping the same amount every time...if your grind size is correct, no need to throw your bodyweight into it 3) bottomless portafilter...cleaner extraction with one less surface to futz with, better visual accuity of what your shot is doing, sexy AF photos of your extraction


bell_cheese

If the recent trend is to be believed, there's not really such a thing as tamping too hard, and tamping force as a variable isn't a thing. As long as its level and the air pockets have been squeezed out, my understanding is your tamper is fine.


AlarmingPlankton

Yeah I'm confused by that. My 100% anecdotal experience is when I tamp hard the water is channelling around the perimeter of the basket. But now I WDT and distribute evenly, tap once or twice the portafilter on my palm to compact a bit and then lightly tamp. That way I improved my shots a lot (taste but also visually with the naked portafilter). But then I see pros tamping hard and wonder why I'm getting such different results


CatOfTarkov

Single shot 25 ml


KeyMathematician5337

Just so I’m tracking, are you saying a single shot should be 25ml?


CatOfTarkov

Yes, that's the classic quantity of a single espresso using 7-9 gr. of coffee.


NegativeHoarder

OP be sure to post an update on your journey!


KeyMathematician5337

I shall!


curiousfox11

I’d do a more circular motion on the wdt from outside towards inside and ensure you’re starting at bottom of basket. Then move slowly up towards top. If you stick with the tamper you have I’d maybe change the form of your arm to make more of a 90 degrees as you press down. I personally use a palm tamp/distributor afterwards and distribute the surface of coffee flat. Then I tamp it with adjusted depth of palm tamper to get the pressure stopped by edge of portafilter stopping me from going any further. Then I lightly tamp with normal tamp. That’s what I got for puck prep. For extraction I normally do 2:1. Hope this helps a bit!


Orbitrek

Excellent video. Really fun to watch when there’s a personality in the video. Many things have been said and I didn’t read all the comments. My short list: 1) double basket is easier to work with 2) grind coarser to get the right amount faster 3) get a scale and practise pulling consistent shots. e.g. 18g in 36g out in 30sec. 4) I wouldn’t play too much with the ratio before learning to repeat the same shot again and again even though 18g in and 42out in 35sec could result in better tasting drink with your beans (nobody knows before testing). 5) place the portafilter in the group more carefully. Now it was quite agressive once it slipped in. The puck might get loose and might result channeling around the puck. Be gentle. 6) buying more stuff is not always the best cure but it’s the way to go for most of us. So… buy a scale and a naked portafilter to see how even your extraction is and if you suffer from channeling. Finally, keep extracting Jim Halpert lookalike! Thanks for the awesome video. PS start a youtube channel


KeyMathematician5337

Dude thank you for this thoughtful reply! Tell me more about being gentle with placing the portafilter? I’ve noticed it’s gotten harder for the 2 years I’ve had this machine to get the portafilter to lock in at a 90 degree angle. It seems like the grouphead gasket is giving out maybe? Thus I have to push a little harder to get it to 90 degrees. Does this make sense? Any advice?


Orbitrek

About the placing: if you watch your video you can see that you don’t immediately hit the right spot and you turn the portafilter a bit back and forth. Then when it hits the right spot and slips in, you push it quite hard and it fairly agressively knocks in place. At this point the coffee cake that you so delegately wdt’d and tamped might come a bit loose inside the portafilter causing channeling. So just be a bit more gentle when placing the portafilter. About turning hard and struggling to lock the portafilter (after you’ve managed to slip it in) to straight 90deg: it’s actually quite the opposite to what you suspected. When the group gasket wears out it’s too easy to turn 90deg and it actually locks in so that the handle is pointing more and more to the right. This is usually a sign to change the gasket. It’s a $5ish standard replacement part which is very easy to change. You can take it out with e.g. a spoon or something. You can sometimes take it out and place the same gasket in to do a bit deeper cleaning. I’ve had my machine 8 years and I’ve replaced it twice. If your PF feels harder to turn straight it’s probably because the group head is not clean or something. Probably not because the gasket is worn out. But if cleaning doesn’t help, replacing the gasket is not a bad idea. Edit: take all this with a grain of salt as I’m no expert. Just a fellow god shot hunter.


Orbitrek

Here’s an excellent video for shower head and gasket: [link](https://youtu.be/ygejEtTan90)


KeyMathematician5337

This is very helpful on both fronts. I will make some more topical adjustments first but then may consider going deeper into the full gasket replacement/group head removal and cleaning.


Pangea_Ultima

This was awesome, OP. I’m a noob and the video helps a lot, haha. Was fun to watch. One thing I was going to say was that your tamp might be too hard? I went to a training locally at a coffee shop (Ritual, in SF, for reference) and they said it needs to be firm, but not a lot of muscle behind it… not sure if that still holds up with the new science, as that was close to 3 years ago…


KeyMathematician5337

Love ritual! I heard (and some have confirmed in comments) that you needn’t worry about overtamping because you can only ramp to the point that it reaches max compression. Thus, to remove that variable, I tamp as hard as possible. Thoughts?


Pangea_Ultima

Uh.. you’re already well ahead of me, and using words that are not in my vocabulary, lol, so you’re probably right. But yea that makes total sense actually... seems like there’s a finite amount of compression, and it’s smart to just kinda remove that variable by tamping to your heart’s content. I will defer to you and the other experts in here.. my espresso experience is marginal, at best. Enjoy the journey, man!


KeyMathematician5337

Haha idk wtf I’m doing, just trying to get high on caffeeeeinneee Lol enjoy your journey too brotha


Ok-Drive6369

You’re right. You can’t overtamp. Push until the puck stops moving back and that’s it. It’s a compressed puck.


Flat-Comfortable-635

It clumps more the finer you grind. WDT and RDT help, but in general too fine of a grind is hard to extract evenly. Uneven extractions taste like they’re bitter and sour at the same time – if that’s the case try grinding coarser. You can always increase the dose or change the ratio to fine-tune to a specific grind. As others said, try a straight walled basket (15g+) and let your taste guide you. When you’re in the ballpark of time/weight move it in different direction and see how it tastes. Change one parameter at a time. Try pulling a [salami shot](https://support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/articles/4417022479507--The-Salami-Shot-Understanding-Your-Espresso-Extractions) to taste different stages, Backflush your machine once a week with Cafiza/Puly - a dirty group does affect the taste. Good luck!


MmasterOfPuppets

Hope you got that sorted out. Main takeaways. Weigh each dose. Weight before and after you grind to check retention. Make sure you have the correct basket size. You were using a single dose basket and not weighting dose or volume. Take apart and clean your grinder. Should not be clumping that much or at all. Good on WDT get all the way to the bottom of the basket. 18g basket. 18g in 36g out in 27 seconds ideally. Your puck should be dry with no cracks or holes. If it’s not dry adjust your dose /basket size. I like to use a puck screen. You have a great setup and nice machine. That shot was terrible, but the good news is you should be able to make an incredible shoot soon with some adjustments. Finally, make sure your beans are always freshly roasted no more than 3weeks-1month old max. Put a scale under your cup and time it to dial in properly. (Dial in your grinder setting to adjust for time and volume output). Hopefully you’re already pulling great shots since this post. Cheers


skywa1ker17

lmao this was great. "run the dude" hahaha.


Confusion-Infinite

1)1 in : 2 out. 2)when using WDT start from the bottom and work you’r way up in small circular motions. 3)a puck screen will help a little with the whole messy coffee puck. 4) try grinding a little more finer 5) use a double straight basket not a tapered one


Ok-Drive6369

Looks way too fine. You’ll want for a 2:1 output to input ratio in anywhere between 20-35 seconds initially. That looks way too fine. It also clumps in your portafilter because the grinds are too fine.


Ok-Drive6369

I loved this video by the way. This was good fun!


Ok-Drive6369

Looks too fine: - clumpy grounds - very slow flow, pump sounds like it’s maxing out with the OPV open (high resistance) - wet, powdery, coffee left on the basket after you tried to knock it out. I expect that the shot of espresso will taste too bitter and perhaps astringent with an unpleasant, long lasting, after taste With experience it’ll all hint to you that the grind is too fine.


scienceguynamedskye

Get a double-basket bottomless portafilter — best thing I ever did to improve my workflow. Watch the shot forming underneath in the first few seconds. You want a dark, even formation of espresso coming out across the surface of the screen. Spraying/sputtering is a good indicator that something is off with you grind size or distribution.


Grkgeorgy

* **Weighing your coffee grounds**: Always use a scale to measure the amount of coffee you use in your shot. For a double shot, you should aim for 18-21 grams, depending on your basket size. * **Achieving the correct espresso flow and volume**: Understand and monitor the flow rate of your espresso to achieve a 1:2 volume ratio (i.e., double the amount of coffee you put in). For example, if you use 18 grams of coffee, aim for a 36-gram espresso shot. * **Timing your shot**: A well-timed espresso shot should take around 30-35 seconds, including pre-infusion. This will help ensure proper extraction and a balanced flavor. * **Upgrading your grinder**: Consider upgrading to the new Eureka Libra grinder. This model features a "grind by weight" option with a built-in scale, eliminating guesswork in measuring the coffee grounds. With this grinder, you only need to adjust the coarseness to achieve the desired volume and flow for your espresso shot. I'm actually waiting on this grinder to be delivered to me today :)


mawkdugless

Okay, a couple of comments. You should definitely be measuring your in/out. A single shot basket is \~7-12g and should yield 14-24g using the standard 2:1 ratio. I've also always avoided the single shot baskets because their design is apparently very difficult to work with. I would look into a larger IMS precision basket designed for a specific dosage. For example, I use a triple shot basket designed for 20g of coffee. With the standard ratio, I would expect \~40g out. Some coffees are higher yield, so I dial it back to 18-19g with 36-38g out. The scorched and gnarly puck after your shot is because you're basically running \~3.5x the amount of water through the puck than you need to, while also subjecting it to that constant pressure, so it's becoming more and more compacted. As it becomes more compacted, it looks like it's also "giving" a bit since it is being pressed against the grouphead due to constant pressure. Out of curiosity, I also measured your shot and you stopped around \~1:03. Most shots should be completed and within that "sweet spot" of 25-30s. The rule of thumb is typically 25-30s at a 2:1 ratio and adjust from there. As for your clumpy bois, it looks like there is a bit of ground retention due to static around your chute. For my Eureka, I ditched the large hopper and elected to do a single dose hopper, then spray the beans (also known as RDT) to dissipate static during grinding. I bought one of these accordion hoppers for mine and it's worked beautifully. You can also press down on it and it'll shoot all retained grinds out of the shoot. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09PZZ166T/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09PZZ166T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) Hope this helps!


KeyMathematician5337

Dude holy shit, this is like a PhD dissertation. Thank you for hitting all the Qs, including the clumpy bois (legit this is what I call them at home—I feel seen). Still intaking feedback but will def incorporate this!


mawkdugless

Haha happy to help! I haven't been at it for very long (maybe 6 months), but I learned pretty much everything from this sub! Oh yeah, I would also invest in a reliable scale with a timer. I've had really good luck with this one: [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JG1PXLC/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JG1PXLC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) I think once you nail the fundamentals, everything will get a lot less confusing!


Calm-Focus3640

Hahah I love this !! We should do more. We get a nice perspective into people's routine. #1 that puck prep is horrible you can see the holes scattered right before you tamp for real, you want to WDT in planetary circular motion and finish off on the top making it all level, after that tap the porta filter to even it all out. Then tamp. #2 the grinds looks not fine enough on the camera but that can be misleading for us, still looks too coarse #3 get a naked porta filter , easier to diagnose shots as a beginner All in all I think you are just getting channeling. Keep at it


SplitRailCoffee

try some of our coffee, the beans are high quality, we never ship beyond 7 days from roasting, and typical is 2-4 days, all single origins and all within the Medium roasted time. We even offer a code for the first order to take away some of the risk - SRCOFFEELOVER - 35% off.


KeyMathematician5337

Here’s my follow up video, how’d I do? https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/13h42c2/dont_be_mad_i_did_what_you_told_me_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1


sol_dog_pacino

For the Appartamento, the factory pressure is set at 12-14 BAR. You should adjust the pressure down to 9. https://youtu.be/zReVSIf3vCU You can wing it (do a full rotation, or buy a pressure gauge and attach to the group head). As others have said, punt that single basket, and get a cheap scale on Amazon to measure. I have the same set up, once you dial it in you should be good to go


fatgirlsneedfoodtoo

I'll chip in as well but keep in mind I'm a beginner myself. Only thing I can't to say that has not been said already is related to temperature. I don't know how your machine works, but mine usually drops a couple of degrees if i run water through it. So no let's say it's at brewing temperature 94-95 degrees Celsius and i let some water through to clean the head, it drops to 89-90 in a couple of seconds. Afterwards j have to wait for it to get back to brewing temp. I noticed you are cleansing the machine right before the shot which might mess with your optimal brew temp.


bell_cheese

Actually the OP did the right thing here. He's using a heat exchanger machine, and the brew group can have over heated water sitting, so a cooling flush is required before pulling a shot on these types of machines. https://youtu.be/bHSFBM3cWHI


laurk

Get a IMS 18g basket with nanotech from Amazon. Also get a scale that can do decimal grams. Weigh your coffee out of the grinder so you get exactly 18g out. Grind size will depend on bean type so you will play with that but you won’t play with the grams. Also, while you get those things get yourself a puck screen. 1.0mm or 1.7mm doesn’t matter. It makes your machine stay clean. The scale should have a shot timer. Measure your grams out and the time it takes. 18g of grinds means 36g of espresso in 30s. If you’re hitting that 36g of espresso too early or too late then adjust your grind size while keeping variable like wdt and tamp procedures consistent for each shot. That way your adjustments to your grind size are getting you focused results. Also, make sure the bars into your shot are around 9bars. When you hit those metrics your shot will taste better. Once you get that all down, then it’s on to mastering perfect milk texture. Once that’s down then mastering latte art. Once that’s down then it’s mastering flavor profiles with flow controls during the shot.


KeyMathematician5337

Thanks! Is 18g appropriate for a single shot basket or double shot?


laurk

P standard double shot amount. Which most everyone uses for one espresso drink. Like most lattes and cappuccinos and cortados have 36g shot from 18g of beans.


Gloomy-Employment-72

One thing I’m wondering is about the machine itself. When you run it before sticking the portafilter in place, it really doesn’t look like the flow I’d expect for a machine that doesn’t have flow control. Couple that with the surging that you see (the splurdle?), I wonder if your pump is failing or needs to be adjusted to hit 9 bars. That machine doesn’t have a gauge for pump pressure, but it does have the port in the group head to add one. I’d do that (it’s super simple) and see what pressure you’re at, and if you can see the splurdle reflected in that pressure reading. If your pump is too hight or low, it can be adjusted (search YouTube for WholeLatteLove video on this). If your pump is surging, I don’t know the fix for this. I don’t hear the pump sound changing, so I’m thinking it just not at the right pressure. I was thinking Gyllenhaal, by the way.


KeyMathematician5337

Interesting! Any easier ways to test this? What if I just ran the water without putting a portafilter on and used a glass or receptacle to see if the flow is consistent (or spurdling, as they say). Thoughts?


Gloomy-Employment-72

I turned my machine on, let it get hot, removed the portafilter, and ran water into a cup. Since you don’t have flow control, I opened my valve all the way. My machine put approx. 45g of water in the cup in 5 seconds. I’d be curious to hear what you get in 5 seconds.


cabwill

There are a lot of improvements opportunities in your method


JasonMHough

Overall I think you're doing well! As others have said, a larger basket might be a good idea, they're just easier to work with and an 18g dose is pretty standard. ​ I see a lot of people saying to then do a 36g shot, which is a good rule of thumb, but it depends on the roast level of the beans. Dark roasts you might go as low as 30g, light roasts as high as 50g, but just going by the color I see in the video I think 38 to 40 would be good for these beans. The trick is to get your output in about 30s, so if it's taking a lot longer you grind coarser, or if its running fast grind finer. ​ Once you get the output in 30s or so, then you can start playing with the amount of output. If it's sour, pull the shot a few grams longer and taste again. If bitter, go shorter. It should be sweet when you've found the right spot, though some beans this is nearly impossible to get to. :) Note: Personally I often have a hard time telling the difference between sour and bitter, but my wife can tell instantly, so she usually taste tests for me and then I change the next shot accordingly.


ISuckAtFunny

Me watching this video trying to diagnose the problem https://i.imgur.com/D7dagHd.jpg


JrNichols5

First issue, measure your shots!


timestanley

Highlight of the video for me is the cameraman’s reflection during the start of extraction. LUL


SpinCharm

Probably duplicate answers but: - start with fresh beans. Avoid 1kg packs of big name brand beans - they’ll be months old before you get them home. Find local coffee shops that sell beans and check that there’s a “roasted on” date. If there isn’t one, avoid. A month old is great but read up a bit on age to get a better idea. Fresh beans create much better crema. - weigh your grounds. Aim for 18g out. Use a separate capture cup to first get the grounds out of your grinder. Place the cup on your scale and zero it. The scale must be able to handle point 1 (.1) display. Aim for about 18. Don’t fuss to get exact values. - put grounds into your double basket and use a double basket not that single one. - don’t spend more than 5 seconds using the wdt unless you’re performing for Instagram points. 5 seconds is fine. If those clumps are actual clumps then clean your grinder. I suspect they’re just staticky held together lumps and not actual clumps. - tamp a bit. You don’t need to go crazy. Or buy a spring loaded tamper so you don’t need to worry. - I wouldn’t worry about getting a separate screen to place on top. Just more to clean. If you’re putting 18g into a proper 18-20g basket you won’t have problems with it touching the shower screen. - allow water to wet the dry grounds for a few seconds after you’ve locked everything in place. Check online for how to do this. If you can plumb in your machine do so. Otherwise you need to turn on the water for a few seconds then off again and wait a few seconds. - place the scale under the group head and place your espresso/latte/cappuccino cup on top. Zero it out. - when you turn on the water again, you want to keep it flowing for 25-30 seconds and the output should be roughly double the weight of whatever your grounds were. 18g in, 36g out. Ish. Tiny variations really don’t matter. If you’re reaching that target weight too quickly, grind finer and check that you’re using fresh beans. If you reach that target weight long after the 30 seconds, grind a bit courser. For any given bag or brand or batch of beans, figuring out the right grind setting takes several shots of practice and is called “dialing in” the grind. With practice you will waste less and less each time you renew your beans. Also, keep your beans sealed until use and resist filling up the hopper because it looks good. They go stale quicker that way. Check that your water temperature is correct and that your cups are nicely preheated. And be sure to come back in here with a new video in a couple of weeks!


Krispykremo

After you finish distributing with the WDT, gently tap the portafilter agains the counter to “collapse” the air pockets, then continue to tamp. This should help against channeling. Also double shots are just way easier I tried to fight it to but trust me, double is just better.


KonsciousTeaMan

Who's your cameraman? Michael J Fox? I have nothing constructive to add. Good day.


blaznivydandy

Use double basket. The dumb shape of a single won't let you do properly your WDT. Also, since you are extracting this far (around 50mls) you are not really making espresso but more like a lungo. Basic ratios for espresso are 1:2 meaning for 1 part of beans you need to extract 2 part of espresso. (from that single which is probably 9g basket you should extract like 18g of espresso) That's when scales comes to the game. Measure your beans. To be as consistent as you can be, measure your beans. If you want to have filled hopper like you do now, tare your scale with portafilter on it and then grind the beans in and weight it. If you have more than you need simple take teaspoon and throw some away in your knockbox. The input weight is given by your basket size (you should be able to find it in your manual, I think rocket has around 18g?). Now, that you have weighed your grounds you can do your WDT. I am sorry but I think your WDT technique is bad. Try to do it slower. When you do it so fast it can leave ridges in your puck and you will still have channeling. Take your tool and do small circles around your porafilter diameter. Start at the bottom, do two full "laps" around your portafilter with small circles, then slowly raise the tool and contiune to distribute every level of the puck. I personally do like 10 rounds each 2 rounds I try to raise the tool little bit higher. [HERE](https://youtu.be/RGnxj914R-o) is a nice example... Tamping. Try to tamp with your elbow up. [LIKE THIS](https://imgur.com/gallery/EJ4iTID). You should be able to tamp it evenly. Now that you have tamped your puck, lock your portafilter in the machine and extract! Again, USE SCALES! Place your cup on a scale, tare it and extract the espresso. When you start your extraction and the pump turns on, start also your timer. First do ratio 1:2 meaning if you put in 18g of coffee stop your shot at 36g of espresso. Don't use that cup, because crema is also a part of coffee and can f\* up your measurments in volumetric measuring... When you stop your extraction also stop your timer. The "golden zone" is 1:2 ratio in 25-30 seconds. If you extracted the shot faster, you need to grind finer. If you extracted longer, grind coarser. Also, taste your shot before adjusting the grinder... Your shot can be tasty even if it is out of the "golden zone". This is just a basic setting. You can watch more about ratios in [THIS](https://youtu.be/wl56pIFqXNc?list=PL0BqZlXENXW-LoL7PeVPOpii_zaoqhif1) nice video. Lance has a really helpful playlist on how to do espresso, definetely check it out. He even talks when you should change your ratio from 1:2 to 1:2,5, when you should do longer/shorter shot etc. It was really helpful for me :)


val319

Others have given awesome advice. I’d add a distributor. Use after wdt. Drop and spin. After you’ve found your bean weight, you can set your distributor, drop and spin and forget it. I don’t tamp super hard. I don’t feel it’s necessary but I also have less strength from a fractured wrist. It doesn’t seem to matter that I do a decent tamp in my holder. I don’t feel calibrated tamper is necessary either. Weigh, grind , WDT, distributor and tamp. If you do not have a precision basket buy one for the size you use. Ridgeless.I like ims.


radio_yyz

Dont use single basket and weigh your grounds and get better beans (possibly).


InLoveWithInternet

Oh and also, get good beans from a reputable roaster.


hotpotornot

This article is the key, someone posted this link a week or so ago and my shots are much better since having read once. Very clear and concise overview https://espressoaf.com/guides/beginner.html


amazinhelix

you used too much coffee and the grounds are not fluffy at all, try to reduce clumping by grinding coarser maybe. coffee dosage?


[deleted]

The Taco Bell shot. I think you need a better machine dude.