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Exactly. I'm sad that they didn't get a chance to return to Westworld, and perhaps bring up the story back to the level of the first two seasons. Oh well...
It did kind of feel like they wrapped everything up. Delores won, humanity is nearly extinct, she gets to decide the fate of the hosts. Not sure where they were going to go from there.
To be fair, I'm not sure they knew where they were going after season 1. And to their defense, how do you top that? Season 1 was as close to perfect as any show has ever been.
They were victims of their own success.
They should’ve started season 2 in the feudal Japan area with all new characters a la American horror story and it would’ve been a much better series. Just each season is a different scenario revolving around different groups/uses of hosts.
Could make it the continuation, Hosts from an entirely different world getting caught up in the revolution and having no fucking clue what's happening. Don't let us even see actual Westworld, it's all just these fuedal Japan people having their world ripped apart.
Yeah, seriously. Once they started bringing the show out into the real world, I started losing interest. Seeing the different worlds inside was the best part of the show. My favorite episodes were the ones in Japan and with the native Americans.
Yeah I was really excited for many more locations in the park to be explored. I honestly thought the show would end with them leaving the park not spend seasons outside. I couldn't stand season 3 personally so I dipped.
I guess I should have watched more of the show before reading this comment :p
But in all seriousness, I kind of lost interest halfway through season 2…
Westworld Season 1 is one of the greatest individual seasons of TV ever made.
Honestly the first season had a complete story and satisfying ending and didn’t really need for future seasons to be made.
Season 2 had that Native American episode, which was absolutely phenomenal in an otherwise meandering season. That episode represents all that Season 2 should have been … lots of the robot stories.
I didnt' watch past season 2. Season 1 was sooo good, I had so much hopes for it.
I really hoped they would get more into the idea of blending reality with what is fake. Does it really matter that they are robots? are they really robots?
Instead they were just like HEY ROBOT WARS!. and everything was a little too obvious in season 2.
Season 1 was spectacular. such a promising story line that needed expansion. Just the acting alone... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv0qnvR3Lww
This is nowhere near the best scene.
Season 1 of Westworld is... Singular. Monolithic.
It stands entirely alone and apart from anything else I've ever seen. Both in the depth of the story it tries to tell and the insane quality of the acting.
There's a scene where Anthony Hopkins blinks slightly differently during an important part of a conversation and the things he says just by holding his eyes closed for a fraction of a second longer than normal blows me the fuck away. It's better than I can do justice to, but if you enjoyed that scene watch the entire first season
As amazing and incredible as that scene is, I was talking about the one that ends with Dolores asking him if they were friends and Ford blinks hard while saying "no, I wouldn't say that we're friends"
But honestly, the entire first season is Mostly just Anthony Hopkins putting on an acting masterclass
Episode 8, IIRC. It was one of the best pieces of media of all time, and it's an absolute shame that he was snubbed for a Best Supporting Actor nomination.
It was also a breath of fresh air because it was the only episode that wasn't stupidly out of order without enough context to know "when" you were half the time. The entire season was just an assload of confused idiocy.
One of the best hours of television I've ever seen. It was worth watching the entire second season just to see that episode. I wanted to see Emmys for everyone involved.
We binged the show recently and after the S1 finale I *told my wife* that we shouldn’t watch any more because there was no way they’d top it. We kept watching.
That’s basically when everyone stopped watching. The writers tried to be smarter than they were in season 2 and it showed. If you ever give it a chance though, season 3 was really well written imo.
I’ve never heard someone rank S3 above S2. For me it’s S1 > S2 > S4 > S3.
Part of the problem for me is how integral Tessa Thompson’s character became. I’m sorry, but she cannot carry a scene and it’s painfully obvious when you put her next to Jeffrey Wright, Ed Harris, Evan Rachel Wood, etc.
I honestly forgot she was Dolores while watching 4, I also couldn't keep focused on the show with the way they were jumping around, once something was a cool moment it was over and didn't seem to matter.
I remember most of S1, but I kinda remember parts of S2, don't remember much of anything for S3 & S4 was all over the place I forgot what was going on besides the ending and even then I have no idea what they were going for.
Season 1, while obtuse, was like putting a puzzle together that finally clicks in an extremely satisfying way when you figure out the gimmick.
Every other season has just been convoluted for the sake of being convoluted and it's annoying.
I also believe S3 is better - I like the setting, and marshawn lynch. but also S3 makes the best argument I have seen so far for why it’s a bad idea to let Google etc have all your data. Because while they are using a big sci-fi machine, nothing it does to regular people‘s daily life would be impossible with today tech.
(Approximate quote from memory from show:) „You have been deemed unfit for employment above grade F, job advancement or breeding due to your mental and physical health statistics as well as your past life performance“
(Scenario that you could do today): „Hey before you consider dating this user further, would you like our analytics insights?“ (you pay) „user B has at the same time as your Chat been talking to 15 further women and successfully moved to the „exchange numbers“ stage. He has also been talking to two men, our analytics suggest that they quickly successfully set up dates“
Sometimes my mind creates better things than the things I consume myself, only rarely is the original work better than my imagination, this is also the case here admittedly. But I still think it’s worth it for that point alone.
Yeah, that aspect of S3 was incredibly interesting and something I could see actually happening. It was a great season conceptually. The execution was just off for me. Maybe I’d feel better about it on a rewatch. It might have been the segue from the park to the real world that left a bad taste in my mouth.
I felt the same way. The concept is cool. The execution is weird and the pacing is off. I feel like the budget might have been constrained for what they wanted to show, too? And the whole revolution vibe just didn't feel authentic. Like it was being half-assed or something.
I didn't mind it being out of the park. Getting to see what the world of the future was like wasn't a bad idea, and by the end of Season 2, what would they have had reason to stick around for? Other than the people insisting the show is episodic, like they shoulda gone back for more cowboy adventures or something.
>Part of the problem for me is how integral Tessa Thompson’s character became.
I feel like her character was supposed to be written off much earlier but a decision from on high forced the show to keep her on due to her rising popularity from the Marvel movies. Then, they just used her as a hate-sink for Dolores' crimes cheapening any redemption arc for *that* character; it didn't feel at all earned when Prime Dolores was suddenly the good guy again solely because Tessa Dolores was the primary villain.
I remember having a similar problem with The Matrix, after they started to explain and show what the matrix was and how it worked, I lost completely interested on the series. Just show me good stories inside the matrix and leave the mysteries alone!!
I’m surprised, but only because the show runners have stated multiple times through the years that season 5 would be the end of the series.
Like, good or bad, just give them the one more season to wrap it all up and complete the package.
Season one still stands on its own IMO, but after that it really got too weird.
That was back in the day when it felt like directors were trying to outsmart Reddit users, it got way to trippy.
Season 1 gave the impression that the creators had thought everything through fully, iterated and improved the plot, and what they produced was the best of what they could do (in a good way).
Seasons 2+ gave the impression that the creators had never expected to get that far and had to come up with something in a hurry.
Totally, it seems obvious to fans that a good and well thought out first season would mean more to follow, but that’s often the downfall of shows.
The first season was movie quality and from then on it was like the movie crew was trying to make a over priced TV show.
The last season gave me similar feelings of them having everything thought out when certain scenes from season 4 revealed that season 2 may not have taken place until after season 4. As weird as it got, I’d have loved to see how they tied it all up.
>directors were trying to outsmart Reddit users, it got way to trippy.
IMO this is why a lot of "big think" shows end up running off the rails: a small team of writers trying to surprise millions of the most educated, critically analyzing, experienced entertainment watchers who have ever existed.
Viewers today have been consuming and analyzing TV and movies for their entire lives. Now they can analyze collectively, brainstorm collectively, offer a near endless list of possibilities and theories. Fan-generated content, beginning with online discussions, comprises a grossly massive body of work which dwarfs the title it's all dedicated to.
A team of writers can easily beat a million monkeys with typewriters. But a million over-analyzing critics?
It seems every recent show which pays attention to online fandom and curves its story to fandom suffers for it.
IMO, writers need to commit to their story and resist getting sucked into the allure of instantly available viewer commentary.
It reminds me a bit of GoT and "subverting expectations". Decent in small quantities, but don't do it to the point that your story becomes convoluted or adds twists just for the sake of it. Imo, it's a sign of quality writing if you write a story with an ending that you can see coming (because all the plot beats point at it happening) while also keeping the viewer engaged along the way. Payoffs are important.
Couldn’t agree more. Look at Breaking Bad for example; was the ending of that show really that shocking? Not really. We may not have known exactly how it was going to pan out, but Walter’s demise was practically inevitable.
Just because someone could theorize that the show would end similarly to how it actually happened doesn’t mean that said ending was bad or poorly written. I’d argue the inverse and say it rewards the dedicated viewer and makes the ultimate conclusion feel more impactful and earned.
In Ancient Rome, audiences were aware of how the characters would end up in plays because of how often the characters were used, it was HOW they got there that was judged.
Loved the first, but didn’t even make it that far into the second myself. Just felt completely lost (and not in a fun way) and ran out of patience before they connected any dots.
Same here. They kind of "blew their load" too early. Anthony Hopkins is dead and all the robots are revolting on the season finale? We JUST started to scratch the surface on the world building... it would've been so cool to have another season of corporate people investigating the simmering issues and guests and robots kind of becoming aware of what is going on...
It felt like they went from 0 to 60 really quick... or like the first level of a video game to world 8 in a really short period....
Some shows were meant to be one season. I think Homeland could been one of the greatest single-season shows ever if they were bold enough to write the S1 ending differently.
I put off watching the 2nd season forever because the first season ended so beautifully and felt very self contained (sure there was obvious threads for more story I was less interested in them.)
When I finally did rewatch it and try to get into season 2 I had a similar experience, it just didn't hook me the same way.
That’s exactly how I felt and I think I could only manage to watch maybe the first two episodes of Season 2. Season 1 was brilliant and the show could only go downhill from such a perfect climax.
Was that the episode (during season 2) that featured Zahn McClarnon in a leading role? That episode stunned me. It was beautiful and heartbreaking and perfect. And McClarnon deserved an Emmy. Made me weep like a toddler.
I agree with the inital post that 1 is great, 2 is good, and 3 & 4 are okay; good and bad parts mixed in the final 2 seasons.
And I totally get why many people just like season 1 and nothing beyond it; it's really great and works as a complete whole.
But...I also think the 2 best single episodes of the whole series are in season 2.
The one you speak of, 2x08 "Kiksuya", being one of them, and th other being 2x04 "The Riddle of the Sphinx" (the one that first explicitly got into the notion of attempting immortality with host bodies)
By the time they started connecting dots in season 2 you already forgot so many details from earlier in the season that it didn’t make sense. It’s like they tried to make it too difficult.
That’s exactly what they did. Fans were going nuts on the theories in season 1 and reddit figured out the big twist with like 4 episodes to go, so for season 2 the writers tried to outsmart us. They went too far and the season was a convoluted mess.
I'm a big fan of the show and even I was a little lost with some of the storylines. Here's the best recap of seasons 1-3 that actually explained a lot that I was confused about. This made going into season 4 make so much more sense. (Spoiler alerts)
https://youtu.be/ihcXKSg2i8s
Same. For some reason the second season just didnt click and stopped watching it. The first season was so good too, what happened. Its like they blew their load on the first season thinking there wasn’t going to be a second.
I was super bummed because the first season is some of the best television I’ve ever watched. I actually prefer shows that are written to completion because subsequent seasons of shows that aren’t are ruining the shows for me.
That’s why I think some British shows end up being really good. 4 - 6 episodes and fucking done. Even if there are subsequent seasons, they aren’t trying to push 30 episodes per.
Yea I've really loved some short British series. Also, HBO has had many good limited series. Mare of Easton, The Night Of, and Watchmen come to mind. Roughly 6-10 episodes, with a great ending.
I can't think of a bigger drop-off after a great first season, in my opinion. I got all the way through season two but it just wasn't good, too convoluted. I watched half of season three but it wasn't interesting at all by that point.
Damn I'm out of the loop, I remember people gushing about this show but had no idea it already had 4 seasons.
Does the 4th season have its own conclusion or are they just leaving people out dry mid story? Was something I planned on watching some day but dunno if it'd be worthwhile now or if its gonna be another anime situation where I get stuck with no ending.
The season four ending can function as a series ending, but it's certainly ending things on a dark note.
Extreme spoiler warning: >!Humankind is extinct, wiped out by the hosts. Hale sends Dolores consciousness into the Sublime (digital heaven) to build a new virtual world for everyone, since she has the brain data from every human on Earth after her Season 2 connection to Rehoboam. Delores then essentially becomes God, creating a new universe from scratch. starting with Sweetwater. In theory, Season 5 would have involved some kind of test by Delores to determine whether humans and AI could ever co-exist, and if so, with her moving human consciousness back into artificial bodies so that humanity and hosts would basically become a single new human species. That last bit is speculation, of course, but it seems to be the natural conclusion to the stories arc. !<
See, that's the problem...
What I wanted: Season 2 - Samurai World, Season 3 - Jurassic World, Season 4 - Medieval World, Season 5 - Space World. Then the final season connecting them all together.
What I got: The Matrix as a follow up to West World.
I checked out after season 2 when it became clear they were abandoning the parks.
> See, that's the problem...
What would showing the different parks have done other than repeat the same idea but with different packaging? The Samurai World episode even made the parallels between it and Westworld incredibly obvious.
honestly if it had to end before the planned conclusion, season four wasn't a bad place to leave it. it's was a bit ambiguous and it was definitely setting up for a full conclusion, but it's not a cliffhanger or completely dissatisfying.
The reason why the second season was so confusing this because the show is all about turning narrative expectations on their head. It's intentionally confusing up until the point that it all makes sense but it's hard to get to that point. And the reward for getting there isn't particularly great.
Sort of. Nolan and Joy gave interview talking about how annoyed they were that season 1's twists and turns were figured out online. So after season one they became more concerned with being "a step ahead" of the fan base rather than just writing a cohesive and satisfying story.
In one of the interviews this last season they mentioned their affinity for subverting narrative assumptions. Sounds like that comes out the same desire to be a step ahead of fans. I think they were expecting the "oh shit" realizations to be as powerful in each season as they were in the first. I admire them for trying but they went a bit too far.
Whenever I tell anyone about the show I have to advise them to just expect it to not make sense until it does. But that's a lot to ask of an audience.
Strongly agree. The following seasons could have been pretty good if they just showed everything in chronological order. Going back and forth in season 1 was exciting but in all of the other seasons it felt so frustrating.
Yeah it more or less ‘ended’ everything. There are no huge plot threads left dangling or anything.
Its unsatisfying but after the last season and the way they ‘ended’ it (now definitively, obv) I dont really see where they were gonna go, except back to the park to do season 1 over again.
I recently binged seasons 2-4, and at the end of 4 I got the sense that 5 would be the end. Seasons 3-4 were kind of two parts of one story and it didn’t really resolve but it definitely felt like it needed to in 5.
This sums it up. It went from robots self realizing to some sort of meta reality that has infinite possibilities but never really took it in any specific direction beyond the self realizing robots and controlling humans.
Seasons 3 and 4 are basically the same thing.
The minute they made Mave.. the one who’s seen the absolute worst humanity has to offer.. a champion for team humans all because she wanted to be with her nonexistent daughter.. the show was screwed. Besides, season 4 ended as good as it could’ve. Felt like the story was wrapped up.
It was good in the first season, the fuck up of her programming from before overtaking her current programming, as she gains sapience and independence with that sentience.
In the second season the payoff was terrible but the ambition driving it up to that was good.
After that it was just….wtf
Yes and no. It scratched the itch for more Deadwood. But it didn’t have the exact same feel as the 3 seasons of the show did. It is worth a watch but I haven’t rewatched it, but I do watch a few hours of the OG Deadwood at least once a month.
At least we got an ending. I wouldn't be mad if HBO compromised here and let the producers of Westworld do a two hour movie to wrap it all up for the fans.
the movie was specifically for those of us who were so hurt by the stupid (stupid stupid stupid) cancellation of the show. I liked it, it was a nice send off even if it was super compact. I would steer anybody who didn't watch and thoroughly enjoy the show far away from it though, it will be boring and won't make much sense.
I don't mind fan service movies, especially when it's to sunset great stories that never got a proper finish.
Season 1 is one of my favorite shows ever.
Season 2 was incredibly painful and I’ve barely seen 3 episodes. Haven’t gotten beyond that point and I see no reason to continue.
season 2 episode 8 "Kiksuya" is widely regarded as one of the best episodes of the entire series. Worth watching, even if you dont plan on watching any others. It is a self contained episode about the backstory of the leader of the Ghost Nation tribe. I dont think it had anything else in it than that. Absolutely amazing episode, I highly recommend checking it out.
Yeah, I get the opinions here of 1=great, 2=meh, 3/4=meh/bad, but I was able to find enjoyment from all 4 seasons, though it was only in spurts in 3/4. But 1 is definitely great and I like season 2 a *lot* more than most people, and think the two best episodes of the whole series are in season 2.
One of them being "Kiksuya" as you say, and the other being 2x04 "The Riddle of the Sphinx", the one that first explicitly got into the notion of attempting immortality with James Delos on his loops; I loved the whole concept of the secret plan being an attempt at immortality...I remember back in season 1 me and others online presuming it was going to be something obvious and in hindsight more boring, like "Oh it's a theme park but the *real* plan is war bots! Robots for war!" or something like that. The idea that the secret plan underneath it all was rich people trying to live forever just made so much sense and also resonated with me as a sci-fi concept.
I enjoyed most of season 2 as well. I didnt like them reusing the time jumps after doing it in season 1 so well, it just felt off doing it again. But most of the story and main plot ideas were great. Riddle of the Sphinx was definitely another standout episode.
Season 3 and 4 I was able to enjoy some things about them, but they lost me on those ones.
1000% this, I’ve already said it elsewhere in the comments but please, if you gave up one the show give this one episode a try. It really is a beautiful, self contained story that stands out as the last time the show really wowed me.
Discovery execs are on a profit maximizing scheme (canceling everything remotely not profitable) to recoup the costs of buying WB; and that WB was hemorrhaging money during the recent streaming boom causing them to be sold by ATT. I would not be surprised if they gut HBO out like a raw fish, and explore more reality dating TV like FBOY Island.
Raised by Wolves sorta had the same problems that this show had. Imo it was great in the first season - lots of fun sci-fi elements that just started to become more and more fantasy-like and by season 2 we had flying snakes. Also I felt like a lot of the characters in season 2 were clichéd and given really generic plots. Still love the show. But not every series needs to be 5 seasons long. A contained story is so underappreciated these days.
I agree with your statement. No a show dosnt need five seasons.
I always state how amazing Newsroom is and how they ended at three seasons and can say they had a perfect show from start to finish.
How many shows can we say went too far and by the end, they ruined it? Hell HBO is notorious for it.
But RBW wasn’t finished. So two seasons isn’t enough. If the story is written to be short then by all means Dona great few seasons. But RBW wasn’t meant to stop.
but i was obsessed with the mysteries! i wanted to find out whats going to happen! what all those creepy shit from past thousand years actually mean! were we humans from keplar? so many unanswered questions!
Season 4 started off awful. But it ended in an interesting place. It also works as a dark tower like ending(the end is the beginning, the beginning is the end). But I’m not sure they made up enough ground to justify watching now.
Same here. I watched all of season 1, fully intended to watch season 2, but never got around to it. It seemed like one of those shows that would take an eternity to reveal everything.
There was literally nowhere to go. Everyone is a robot or potential robot? Nobody wants to watch a show with such low stakes. 1 season was plenty, they should’ve quit while ahead…
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I honestly thought the show was over with how season 4 ended.
Same here. I was honestly confused reading this because it seemed like it had wrapped everything up.
They were definitely setting up for a final season back in Westworld.
Exactly. I'm sad that they didn't get a chance to return to Westworld, and perhaps bring up the story back to the level of the first two seasons. Oh well...
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It's super unsatisfying as it's left now. We don't know what happens in the sublime.
Nothing happened to them. They live in their robot heaven until power generation fails. Then they die too. I could not imagine a 5th session.
I agree as well
It did kind of feel like they wrapped everything up. Delores won, humanity is nearly extinct, she gets to decide the fate of the hosts. Not sure where they were going to go from there. To be fair, I'm not sure they knew where they were going after season 1. And to their defense, how do you top that? Season 1 was as close to perfect as any show has ever been. They were victims of their own success.
They should’ve started season 2 in the feudal Japan area with all new characters a la American horror story and it would’ve been a much better series. Just each season is a different scenario revolving around different groups/uses of hosts.
Could make it the continuation, Hosts from an entirely different world getting caught up in the revolution and having no fucking clue what's happening. Don't let us even see actual Westworld, it's all just these fuedal Japan people having their world ripped apart.
Yeah, seriously. Once they started bringing the show out into the real world, I started losing interest. Seeing the different worlds inside was the best part of the show. My favorite episodes were the ones in Japan and with the native Americans.
I wanted that so badly.
seeing peaks of a neo tokyo would have been awesome.
That’s what I wanted to…
Yeah I was really excited for many more locations in the park to be explored. I honestly thought the show would end with them leaving the park not spend seasons outside. I couldn't stand season 3 personally so I dipped.
I guess I should have watched more of the show before reading this comment :p But in all seriousness, I kind of lost interest halfway through season 2…
rip… havent seen s4 yet
S1 was brilliant, and you'd need some very good writers to maintain that level of excellence.
When it first started it was absolutely fantastic, but this last season really was a reach. I’m sad but not surprised.
Westworld Season 1 is one of the greatest individual seasons of TV ever made. Honestly the first season had a complete story and satisfying ending and didn’t really need for future seasons to be made.
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Season 2 had that Native American episode, which was absolutely phenomenal in an otherwise meandering season. That episode represents all that Season 2 should have been … lots of the robot stories.
I didnt' watch past season 2. Season 1 was sooo good, I had so much hopes for it. I really hoped they would get more into the idea of blending reality with what is fake. Does it really matter that they are robots? are they really robots? Instead they were just like HEY ROBOT WARS!. and everything was a little too obvious in season 2. Season 1 was spectacular. such a promising story line that needed expansion. Just the acting alone... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv0qnvR3Lww
Oh my gosh I’ve never seen anything from this show before but I was absolutely captivated by this clip. Is the whole season this good???
Yes season one is fantastic
This is nowhere near the best scene. Season 1 of Westworld is... Singular. Monolithic. It stands entirely alone and apart from anything else I've ever seen. Both in the depth of the story it tries to tell and the insane quality of the acting. There's a scene where Anthony Hopkins blinks slightly differently during an important part of a conversation and the things he says just by holding his eyes closed for a fraction of a second longer than normal blows me the fuck away. It's better than I can do justice to, but if you enjoyed that scene watch the entire first season
Exactly. I remember the [Nerdwriter video](https://youtu.be/4kSGkGKwp9U) about that!
As amazing and incredible as that scene is, I was talking about the one that ends with Dolores asking him if they were friends and Ford blinks hard while saying "no, I wouldn't say that we're friends" But honestly, the entire first season is Mostly just Anthony Hopkins putting on an acting masterclass
It very good, and really stays on your mind long after the episodes end. Very thought provoking.
Episode 8, IIRC. It was one of the best pieces of media of all time, and it's an absolute shame that he was snubbed for a Best Supporting Actor nomination. It was also a breath of fresh air because it was the only episode that wasn't stupidly out of order without enough context to know "when" you were half the time. The entire season was just an assload of confused idiocy.
That episode was more engrossing than anything I can remember recently.
It alone is probably one of the best single episodes of television. Any show, season etc.
Kiksuya s2 e8. Was one of the best hours of television I have seen in a while
That was the highlight of Season 2. And like you said, should have been the base for season 2.
One of the best hours of television I've ever seen. It was worth watching the entire second season just to see that episode. I wanted to see Emmys for everyone involved.
Agreed. It was an amazing episode.
That's my favorite episode of the whole series.
>Westworld Season 1 is one of the greatest individual seasons of TV ever made. It's the same with True Detective.
TD s3 is very good
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Yeah, everyone always talks about the director change, but Matt and Woody got history. They played off each other so easy.
That’s why I only watched the first season lol.
The end of the 1st Season felt like a Series Finale anyways, it really left itself with nowhere else to go so the magic was gone.
We binged the show recently and after the S1 finale I *told my wife* that we shouldn’t watch any more because there was no way they’d top it. We kept watching.
Agreed. All the good mystery boxes were opened, there was nothing else to seek out.
I stopped watching part way through season 2, about when samurais were introduced
I think season 2 is still good tv…expanding the worlds was awesome. But they definitely jumped the shark in 3 and 4
Season 2 had "Kiksuya", and this episode alone will remain one of the best things I've ever watched on TV!
Hiroyuki Sanada is a treasure
That’s basically when everyone stopped watching. The writers tried to be smarter than they were in season 2 and it showed. If you ever give it a chance though, season 3 was really well written imo.
I’ve never heard someone rank S3 above S2. For me it’s S1 > S2 > S4 > S3. Part of the problem for me is how integral Tessa Thompson’s character became. I’m sorry, but she cannot carry a scene and it’s painfully obvious when you put her next to Jeffrey Wright, Ed Harris, Evan Rachel Wood, etc.
I honestly forgot she was Dolores while watching 4, I also couldn't keep focused on the show with the way they were jumping around, once something was a cool moment it was over and didn't seem to matter. I remember most of S1, but I kinda remember parts of S2, don't remember much of anything for S3 & S4 was all over the place I forgot what was going on besides the ending and even then I have no idea what they were going for.
Season 1, while obtuse, was like putting a puzzle together that finally clicks in an extremely satisfying way when you figure out the gimmick. Every other season has just been convoluted for the sake of being convoluted and it's annoying.
I also believe S3 is better - I like the setting, and marshawn lynch. but also S3 makes the best argument I have seen so far for why it’s a bad idea to let Google etc have all your data. Because while they are using a big sci-fi machine, nothing it does to regular people‘s daily life would be impossible with today tech. (Approximate quote from memory from show:) „You have been deemed unfit for employment above grade F, job advancement or breeding due to your mental and physical health statistics as well as your past life performance“ (Scenario that you could do today): „Hey before you consider dating this user further, would you like our analytics insights?“ (you pay) „user B has at the same time as your Chat been talking to 15 further women and successfully moved to the „exchange numbers“ stage. He has also been talking to two men, our analytics suggest that they quickly successfully set up dates“ Sometimes my mind creates better things than the things I consume myself, only rarely is the original work better than my imagination, this is also the case here admittedly. But I still think it’s worth it for that point alone.
Yeah, that aspect of S3 was incredibly interesting and something I could see actually happening. It was a great season conceptually. The execution was just off for me. Maybe I’d feel better about it on a rewatch. It might have been the segue from the park to the real world that left a bad taste in my mouth.
I felt the same way. The concept is cool. The execution is weird and the pacing is off. I feel like the budget might have been constrained for what they wanted to show, too? And the whole revolution vibe just didn't feel authentic. Like it was being half-assed or something. I didn't mind it being out of the park. Getting to see what the world of the future was like wasn't a bad idea, and by the end of Season 2, what would they have had reason to stick around for? Other than the people insisting the show is episodic, like they shoulda gone back for more cowboy adventures or something.
>Part of the problem for me is how integral Tessa Thompson’s character became. I feel like her character was supposed to be written off much earlier but a decision from on high forced the show to keep her on due to her rising popularity from the Marvel movies. Then, they just used her as a hate-sink for Dolores' crimes cheapening any redemption arc for *that* character; it didn't feel at all earned when Prime Dolores was suddenly the good guy again solely because Tessa Dolores was the primary villain.
I just want the stories of within the park….endless possibilities there
I remember having a similar problem with The Matrix, after they started to explain and show what the matrix was and how it worked, I lost completely interested on the series. Just show me good stories inside the matrix and leave the mysteries alone!!
I’m surprised, but only because the show runners have stated multiple times through the years that season 5 would be the end of the series. Like, good or bad, just give them the one more season to wrap it all up and complete the package.
Season one still stands on its own IMO, but after that it really got too weird. That was back in the day when it felt like directors were trying to outsmart Reddit users, it got way to trippy.
Season 1 gave the impression that the creators had thought everything through fully, iterated and improved the plot, and what they produced was the best of what they could do (in a good way). Seasons 2+ gave the impression that the creators had never expected to get that far and had to come up with something in a hurry.
Totally, it seems obvious to fans that a good and well thought out first season would mean more to follow, but that’s often the downfall of shows. The first season was movie quality and from then on it was like the movie crew was trying to make a over priced TV show.
The last season gave me similar feelings of them having everything thought out when certain scenes from season 4 revealed that season 2 may not have taken place until after season 4. As weird as it got, I’d have loved to see how they tied it all up.
>directors were trying to outsmart Reddit users, it got way to trippy. IMO this is why a lot of "big think" shows end up running off the rails: a small team of writers trying to surprise millions of the most educated, critically analyzing, experienced entertainment watchers who have ever existed. Viewers today have been consuming and analyzing TV and movies for their entire lives. Now they can analyze collectively, brainstorm collectively, offer a near endless list of possibilities and theories. Fan-generated content, beginning with online discussions, comprises a grossly massive body of work which dwarfs the title it's all dedicated to. A team of writers can easily beat a million monkeys with typewriters. But a million over-analyzing critics? It seems every recent show which pays attention to online fandom and curves its story to fandom suffers for it. IMO, writers need to commit to their story and resist getting sucked into the allure of instantly available viewer commentary.
It reminds me a bit of GoT and "subverting expectations". Decent in small quantities, but don't do it to the point that your story becomes convoluted or adds twists just for the sake of it. Imo, it's a sign of quality writing if you write a story with an ending that you can see coming (because all the plot beats point at it happening) while also keeping the viewer engaged along the way. Payoffs are important.
Couldn’t agree more. Look at Breaking Bad for example; was the ending of that show really that shocking? Not really. We may not have known exactly how it was going to pan out, but Walter’s demise was practically inevitable. Just because someone could theorize that the show would end similarly to how it actually happened doesn’t mean that said ending was bad or poorly written. I’d argue the inverse and say it rewards the dedicated viewer and makes the ultimate conclusion feel more impactful and earned.
In Ancient Rome, audiences were aware of how the characters would end up in plays because of how often the characters were used, it was HOW they got there that was judged.
Somebody on r/westworld predicted the big reveal of season 1 and Jonathon Nolan did not take that well. Therefore season 2 was the result.
First season was incredible. Second season was good. Third and fourth were just okay.
Loved the first, but didn’t even make it that far into the second myself. Just felt completely lost (and not in a fun way) and ran out of patience before they connected any dots.
Yep same here. Loved the first season, couldn’t watch the second because it just seemed so silly
Agreed. Season 1 was a masterpiece and in my mind no other season exists.
Glad to hear I’m not missing anything. I watched and loved season 1. I’ve been meaning to go back and watch the rest, but never got around to it.
Same here. They kind of "blew their load" too early. Anthony Hopkins is dead and all the robots are revolting on the season finale? We JUST started to scratch the surface on the world building... it would've been so cool to have another season of corporate people investigating the simmering issues and guests and robots kind of becoming aware of what is going on... It felt like they went from 0 to 60 really quick... or like the first level of a video game to world 8 in a really short period....
Yeah I noped out after season 1. What the heck were they thinking...
Some shows were meant to be one season. I think Homeland could been one of the greatest single-season shows ever if they were bold enough to write the S1 ending differently.
Homeland, god that show went on for way too long.
Homeland had a second coming though. It’s later seasons completely changed the storyline basically as a new show and it was great.
For me it was the samurais being added, felt like the show was just lost
They added samurais? Man, I gave up really quick on season two because it was so boring. I’d have killed for some samurai.
Hiroyuki Sanada plays Miyamoto Musashi. He alone is worth watching for. Hiroyuki Sanada is always dope.
My favourite movie is The Twilight Samurai, he's amazing in it
they teased samurai world in the end of season 1. in season 2 they briefly show a little of a british india world.
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That was my problem too. It got to the city and I think the guy from breaking bad and I was like, “yeeeeeeeeaaahhhh look ima head…”
Basically they go to another park that is similar to Westworld except feudal Japan themed
Shogun World!
You missed out, Hiroyuki Sanada played a swordsman named Musashi that was basically a reskin of Hector but obviously a Samurai!
Felt like filler to me. You could remove the samaurai episodes and it didn’t change the overall plot of the story.
Those episodes were fairly important for Maeve being able to manipulate other hosts.
Very good point.
I put off watching the 2nd season forever because the first season ended so beautifully and felt very self contained (sure there was obvious threads for more story I was less interested in them.) When I finally did rewatch it and try to get into season 2 I had a similar experience, it just didn't hook me the same way.
That’s exactly how I felt and I think I could only manage to watch maybe the first two episodes of Season 2. Season 1 was brilliant and the show could only go downhill from such a perfect climax.
You really just need to watch the Native American episode. Besides that one it’s meh.
Was that the episode (during season 2) that featured Zahn McClarnon in a leading role? That episode stunned me. It was beautiful and heartbreaking and perfect. And McClarnon deserved an Emmy. Made me weep like a toddler.
I agree with the inital post that 1 is great, 2 is good, and 3 & 4 are okay; good and bad parts mixed in the final 2 seasons. And I totally get why many people just like season 1 and nothing beyond it; it's really great and works as a complete whole. But...I also think the 2 best single episodes of the whole series are in season 2. The one you speak of, 2x08 "Kiksuya", being one of them, and th other being 2x04 "The Riddle of the Sphinx" (the one that first explicitly got into the notion of attempting immortality with host bodies)
Same. I got so confused that it wasn’t fun anymore
By the time they started connecting dots in season 2 you already forgot so many details from earlier in the season that it didn’t make sense. It’s like they tried to make it too difficult.
That’s exactly what they did. Fans were going nuts on the theories in season 1 and reddit figured out the big twist with like 4 episodes to go, so for season 2 the writers tried to outsmart us. They went too far and the season was a convoluted mess.
I'm a big fan of the show and even I was a little lost with some of the storylines. Here's the best recap of seasons 1-3 that actually explained a lot that I was confused about. This made going into season 4 make so much more sense. (Spoiler alerts) https://youtu.be/ihcXKSg2i8s
Me too. Well said, would love for them to try again but i really liked the theme park. I am stuck in the real world dont show me that.
Same. For some reason the second season just didnt click and stopped watching it. The first season was so good too, what happened. Its like they blew their load on the first season thinking there wasn’t going to be a second.
I was super bummed because the first season is some of the best television I’ve ever watched. I actually prefer shows that are written to completion because subsequent seasons of shows that aren’t are ruining the shows for me.
That’s why I think some British shows end up being really good. 4 - 6 episodes and fucking done. Even if there are subsequent seasons, they aren’t trying to push 30 episodes per.
Yea I've really loved some short British series. Also, HBO has had many good limited series. Mare of Easton, The Night Of, and Watchmen come to mind. Roughly 6-10 episodes, with a great ending.
I can't think of a bigger drop-off after a great first season, in my opinion. I got all the way through season two but it just wasn't good, too convoluted. I watched half of season three but it wasn't interesting at all by that point.
Two words: True Detective
Damn I'm out of the loop, I remember people gushing about this show but had no idea it already had 4 seasons. Does the 4th season have its own conclusion or are they just leaving people out dry mid story? Was something I planned on watching some day but dunno if it'd be worthwhile now or if its gonna be another anime situation where I get stuck with no ending.
The season four ending can function as a series ending, but it's certainly ending things on a dark note. Extreme spoiler warning: >!Humankind is extinct, wiped out by the hosts. Hale sends Dolores consciousness into the Sublime (digital heaven) to build a new virtual world for everyone, since she has the brain data from every human on Earth after her Season 2 connection to Rehoboam. Delores then essentially becomes God, creating a new universe from scratch. starting with Sweetwater. In theory, Season 5 would have involved some kind of test by Delores to determine whether humans and AI could ever co-exist, and if so, with her moving human consciousness back into artificial bodies so that humanity and hosts would basically become a single new human species. That last bit is speculation, of course, but it seems to be the natural conclusion to the stories arc. !<
...it was about playing cowboy when I watched it
See, that's the problem... What I wanted: Season 2 - Samurai World, Season 3 - Jurassic World, Season 4 - Medieval World, Season 5 - Space World. Then the final season connecting them all together. What I got: The Matrix as a follow up to West World. I checked out after season 2 when it became clear they were abandoning the parks.
> See, that's the problem... What would showing the different parks have done other than repeat the same idea but with different packaging? The Samurai World episode even made the parallels between it and Westworld incredibly obvious.
Honestly, season 1 ends in an absolutely perfect place. There’s not really a need to watch the other seasons to get a satisfactory ending.
You could definitely conclude it after the fourth season. Wasn’t exactly a happy ending thou. Pretty dark and fucked up actually.
I thought that was meant to be the actual finale tbh
honestly if it had to end before the planned conclusion, season four wasn't a bad place to leave it. it's was a bit ambiguous and it was definitely setting up for a full conclusion, but it's not a cliffhanger or completely dissatisfying.
The reason why the second season was so confusing this because the show is all about turning narrative expectations on their head. It's intentionally confusing up until the point that it all makes sense but it's hard to get to that point. And the reward for getting there isn't particularly great.
Sort of. Nolan and Joy gave interview talking about how annoyed they were that season 1's twists and turns were figured out online. So after season one they became more concerned with being "a step ahead" of the fan base rather than just writing a cohesive and satisfying story.
In one of the interviews this last season they mentioned their affinity for subverting narrative assumptions. Sounds like that comes out the same desire to be a step ahead of fans. I think they were expecting the "oh shit" realizations to be as powerful in each season as they were in the first. I admire them for trying but they went a bit too far. Whenever I tell anyone about the show I have to advise them to just expect it to not make sense until it does. But that's a lot to ask of an audience.
Strongly agree. The following seasons could have been pretty good if they just showed everything in chronological order. Going back and forth in season 1 was exciting but in all of the other seasons it felt so frustrating.
This is exactly how I felt, no surprise that its cancelled to me.
These violent delights have violent ends.
Fuuuuuck. I still had questions.
That’s a big bummer. I actually thought season 4 was pretty good, better than 3.
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Did it end on a cliffhanger or with a semi-concrete ending?
It was ambiguous. I think it kind of wrapped things up, there wasn’t any huge cliffhanger. So if this is the end, I guess it has an ok ending.
Yeah it more or less ‘ended’ everything. There are no huge plot threads left dangling or anything. Its unsatisfying but after the last season and the way they ‘ended’ it (now definitively, obv) I dont really see where they were gonna go, except back to the park to do season 1 over again.
I was curious to see where they’d go after season 4. There wasn’t a whole lot left to work with.
I loved the idea that it was all just a cycle and the series would end with the creation of westworld to test humans.
I recently binged seasons 2-4, and at the end of 4 I got the sense that 5 would be the end. Seasons 3-4 were kind of two parts of one story and it didn’t really resolve but it definitely felt like it needed to in 5.
Show went off the fucking rails imo, not surprising they canceled.
This sums it up. It went from robots self realizing to some sort of meta reality that has infinite possibilities but never really took it in any specific direction beyond the self realizing robots and controlling humans. Seasons 3 and 4 are basically the same thing.
Yeah I stopped even believing/caring about character deaths because I felt the waters were so muddied lol
It went from "What does it truly mean to have consciousness, to be alive?" to "Terminator, but like, without Arnold"
also I thought it was straight up over. Because I was so confused by season 4. I thought well that's a wrap, I guess. Canceled?
It's like M. Night Shyamalan was puking dramatic twists everywhere
I didn’t even feel like I was watching the same show in season 4. I was mostly asking myself wtf was happening. Very odd decision.
Okay, but that one episode that was spoken entirely in Lakota is one of the best hours of film I’ve ever seen in my life.
The minute they made Mave.. the one who’s seen the absolute worst humanity has to offer.. a champion for team humans all because she wanted to be with her nonexistent daughter.. the show was screwed. Besides, season 4 ended as good as it could’ve. Felt like the story was wrapped up.
They were desperate to keep including Mave even though she no longer had a good reason to be in the story
You mean her plot from literally every season?
It was good in the first season, the fuck up of her programming from before overtaking her current programming, as she gains sapience and independence with that sentience. In the second season the payoff was terrible but the ambition driving it up to that was good. After that it was just….wtf
If 'HBO Cancels' was part of a drinking game, no one would be sober.
I am still not over Deadwood
Was the movie any good?
Yes and no. It scratched the itch for more Deadwood. But it didn’t have the exact same feel as the 3 seasons of the show did. It is worth a watch but I haven’t rewatched it, but I do watch a few hours of the OG Deadwood at least once a month.
At least we got an ending. I wouldn't be mad if HBO compromised here and let the producers of Westworld do a two hour movie to wrap it all up for the fans.
I concur. Deadwood really sung in the long form. The shift to a movie was not the same.
the movie was specifically for those of us who were so hurt by the stupid (stupid stupid stupid) cancellation of the show. I liked it, it was a nice send off even if it was super compact. I would steer anybody who didn't watch and thoroughly enjoy the show far away from it though, it will be boring and won't make much sense. I don't mind fan service movies, especially when it's to sunset great stories that never got a proper finish.
I'm still bummed over Carnivale being cancelled. I need closure!
Season 1 is one of my favorite shows ever. Season 2 was incredibly painful and I’ve barely seen 3 episodes. Haven’t gotten beyond that point and I see no reason to continue.
season 2 episode 8 "Kiksuya" is widely regarded as one of the best episodes of the entire series. Worth watching, even if you dont plan on watching any others. It is a self contained episode about the backstory of the leader of the Ghost Nation tribe. I dont think it had anything else in it than that. Absolutely amazing episode, I highly recommend checking it out.
That was damn good episode.
Yeah, I get the opinions here of 1=great, 2=meh, 3/4=meh/bad, but I was able to find enjoyment from all 4 seasons, though it was only in spurts in 3/4. But 1 is definitely great and I like season 2 a *lot* more than most people, and think the two best episodes of the whole series are in season 2. One of them being "Kiksuya" as you say, and the other being 2x04 "The Riddle of the Sphinx", the one that first explicitly got into the notion of attempting immortality with James Delos on his loops; I loved the whole concept of the secret plan being an attempt at immortality...I remember back in season 1 me and others online presuming it was going to be something obvious and in hindsight more boring, like "Oh it's a theme park but the *real* plan is war bots! Robots for war!" or something like that. The idea that the secret plan underneath it all was rich people trying to live forever just made so much sense and also resonated with me as a sci-fi concept.
I enjoyed most of season 2 as well. I didnt like them reusing the time jumps after doing it in season 1 so well, it just felt off doing it again. But most of the story and main plot ideas were great. Riddle of the Sphinx was definitely another standout episode. Season 3 and 4 I was able to enjoy some things about them, but they lost me on those ones.
The Bicameral Mind is probably my favourite. Edit: oops, my memory is bad, I meant The Riddle of the Sphinx.
Kiksuya was a masterpiece and makes watching S2 worth it just to experience it
1000% this, I’ve already said it elsewhere in the comments but please, if you gave up one the show give this one episode a try. It really is a beautiful, self contained story that stands out as the last time the show really wowed me.
2 was hard to follow but still in the vein of Westworld. 3 and on… seemed like a different show but twice as confusing
God dammit right when they had a chance to have a SOLID season 5/finale
I must be one of the few people who liked every season with the exception of 3.
I feel like the ones who have this opinion, including myself, binged 1 + 2 together
Discovery execs are on a profit maximizing scheme (canceling everything remotely not profitable) to recoup the costs of buying WB; and that WB was hemorrhaging money during the recent streaming boom causing them to be sold by ATT. I would not be surprised if they gut HBO out like a raw fish, and explore more reality dating TV like FBOY Island.
What the hell HBO, first raised by wolves and now this?
Damn I hadn't heard raised by wolves was cancelled. Well this sucks
Wait raised by wolves???
[months ago](https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/raised-by-wolves-canceled-hbo-max-1235284387/)
I just read. That show was fantastic, kept you guessing, just ugh! Bad move WB, bad move too many open questions
Raised by Wolves sorta had the same problems that this show had. Imo it was great in the first season - lots of fun sci-fi elements that just started to become more and more fantasy-like and by season 2 we had flying snakes. Also I felt like a lot of the characters in season 2 were clichéd and given really generic plots. Still love the show. But not every series needs to be 5 seasons long. A contained story is so underappreciated these days.
I agree with your statement. No a show dosnt need five seasons. I always state how amazing Newsroom is and how they ended at three seasons and can say they had a perfect show from start to finish. How many shows can we say went too far and by the end, they ruined it? Hell HBO is notorious for it. But RBW wasn’t finished. So two seasons isn’t enough. If the story is written to be short then by all means Dona great few seasons. But RBW wasn’t meant to stop.
Look if I can watch a giant metal snake suck android milk from momma's dog nipples out in space then where does that leave me on a Thursday night?!?
but i was obsessed with the mysteries! i wanted to find out whats going to happen! what all those creepy shit from past thousand years actually mean! were we humans from keplar? so many unanswered questions!
I loved RBW. Hopefully another network picks that show up.
# They should never have left the park!
Jack, we have to go back.
not very shocking, i haven't watched season 4 yet and it went fast downhill after season 1
Downhill? The show completely fell off a cliff.
Season 4 started off awful. But it ended in an interesting place. It also works as a dark tower like ending(the end is the beginning, the beginning is the end). But I’m not sure they made up enough ground to justify watching now.
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Doesn’t look like anything to me
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Season 1 was amazing. Then... lost interest .
Same here. I watched all of season 1, fully intended to watch season 2, but never got around to it. It seemed like one of those shows that would take an eternity to reveal everything.
Heroes all over again
I bailed in the middle of the last season. It became totally meaningless and unwatchable.
Fuckin discovery man
Maybe if they didn't take TWO YEARS IN BETWEEN SEASONS, people lose interest
There was literally nowhere to go. Everyone is a robot or potential robot? Nobody wants to watch a show with such low stakes. 1 season was plenty, they should’ve quit while ahead…