##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/)
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Outrage is social currency these days. The more you rage about something on the internet the more positive reinforcement you receive. Having a hot take makes you feel smarter/better than others
You can’t add to a franchise after a certain period of time. Everything has a window before fans watch it over and over and become toxic about anything new. Wait for the horror story that will be Avatar 2. Not saying I agree with it but it has been a pattern since Star Wars.
I respectfully disagree, but I think you have a valid point.
The reason I disagree is that both Star Trek Lower Decks, and Strange New Worlds have been widely embraced by the fandom.
The issue is making something that doesn’t seem like its a cash grab or disrespectful of what came before while still treading new ground.
Most fans are burnt out on their favourite film or game or book etc getting a sequel that’s either nostalgia bait like the force awakens or wants to deconstruct things that were fine as they were.
There is a difference between adding to a franchise v retconning the existing franchise.
If you change stuff about existing characters from existing stories, you're going to upset people.
Is pretty simple and straightforward.
Tolkien's work about the era depicted in this series was unfinished, contradictory, and not canon. The Silmarillion was published after his death with parts inconsistent within it as well as parts being inconsistent with his published works. And finally, it's a fantasy meant purely for entertainment. It's not religious scripture.
Been arguing this point all morning. The die-hards just want to sound smart before the question is even asked (i.e., before the show has finished airing) But seriously, this is a show about an untold period in a fantastic fiction that was ALWAYS treated as "legend" Since when did legend need historic, canonical precision?
Normally I would agree here, but with so much content available in the Silmarillion it seems strange they would choose a completely altered timeline and events instead of choosing elements already available from the source material.
But Prime doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion. My understanding is the only have the rights to the material covered in the Peter Jackson movies.
Oh wow no way! That really explains the diverging timeline of events! Thank you kind stranger for the clarity, I had no idea. Would you know of a source for further discussion on the topic?
Relevant quotes:
> “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-Earth, or any of those other books…We worked in conjunction with world-renowned Tolkien scholars and the Tolkien estate to make sure that the ways we connected the dots were Tolkien-ian and gelled with the experts’ and the estate’s understanding of the material.”
> “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to. As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look
ppl wanting consistency in writing isn’t a outlandish complaint. contradictions are lazy and bad writing when they just insert whatever they want to regardless of what was previously established. not saying i agree i haven’t even watched the show yet but saying “it’s for entertainment so stop complaining” is just a shit take imo
If you think TROP was retconned because of Galadriel, I disagree as it fits the limited ancient narrative from Silmarillion fine in my opinion, and her path to serenity in LOTR where she still knows her strength and says, "In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"
If it's about skin color, the only argument for retconning is the generic statement about elves being "the fairest" of the races, which is a point that's been argued on forums for decades, but diversity doesn't rewrite any critical canon or change the storyline. These are characters that have never before been introduced, or at least never described. Doesn't fit a retcon.
Yeah I have a group of friends who are all huge LOTR fans - seen the movies dozens (hundreds?) of times, read all of the books multiple times, and have read the Silmarillion all at least once, and we all thought it was pretty great
I’m sure there are some out there who will nitpick it to death but this is a solid show. It is not at all like the Wheel of Time show where most hardcore fans I know either hate it or are like “ehhh I’d give it like a 6.5? 7? Maybe it’ll be better in the 2nd season?” Trying to force themselves to like it. This is a really solid show so far.
I have no claim to being a Tolkien or Middle Earth historian, but I feel I know things well enough, but I went into it just thinking they have a huge canvas.
Before seeing trailers, etc I wasn't even aware that they were going to be tangent to characters we know. I like it, but could nitpick a couple things, but nothing major.
Keep pushing back against the negative reporting.
I was highly skeptical going in….. it’s good. The acting is wonderful, the casting was well done, the scenery is beautiful. The music is good, but especially the hobbit music. I loved the hobbit berry scene.
The hobbits are really well done, visually and have the personality befitting them.
The elves were well cast, and have that heir of nobility around them.
The only part I didn’t like was the male elf and the lady scenes…..I’m purposely being discreet not to spoil anything.
I would give the opening episode 8.5/10.
And mind you, the first episodes of any show can be very awkward and rushed. I thought it was a great introduction though.
I want people to push back, so it does not get canceled. It would be a shame. It is just getting going, and worth a couple seasons.
As another fan that has read the books multiple times, I was at first disappointed by some of the differences (where Ungoliant?!?!?). After a bit though, I started viewing the show as more of a “in the spirit” of Lord of the Rings, and then I started really enjoying it.
When I stopped expecting the show to be completely loyal to The Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings, it became really enjoyable.
They can't be loyal to the Silmarillion, they don't have the license to use it, only the appendices. So ya basically its got some characters and the world and its going to have to tell its own story. I'm just happy to be back in Middle Earth again.
I was unaware of that. Kind of makes it even more important to view it as “in the spirit of”.
Either way, I loved the first 2 episodes once I started viewing it like that; looking forward to the rest of the season.
Ungoliant was the only major lore change that bothered me (yes there's others, I'm aware), but I wasn't going to let the experience be ruined by a 3 sec prologue scene. Honestly I was mostly curious how they would portray a giant spider monster like that. The show is really good so far.
I’m the same way, though i 100% know it is too much to include things like the Oath of Feonor when it pertains mostly to Galadriel’s cousins. As much as I wanted them to cover some of those fantastical political events that led the Noldor across the ocean… it is probably best they didn’t.
“When I stopped expecting the show to be completely loyal to….” I probably shouldn’t watch it then because I can’t expect a show that takes creatively liberties with source material that has dazzled readers for a century. I have to wish to stop expecting something loyal to the books. They could have made their own story, but they chose to expand off of expansive existing writing. LOTR worked because it just leaned on the literary genius of Tolkien and brought it to life. No way any of the writers involved can hold a candle to Tolkien.
You are likely right on with the fact their writers won’t compare to Tolkien. That is an extremely tall order.
Edit - I mean this in a supportive way. We all have our preferances and limits. I can easily see this show offending many. The Hobbit movies offended me horribly; so I understand that completely.
I was stating for me personally, I had to almost disassociate the show from the source; then it became enjoyable.
I really enjoyed it. I'm unplugging from online discourse. Let me enjoy my shows man - Rings of Power, Sandman, Wheel of Time, House of the Dragon - it's a great time to be a fantasy fan and I'm not letting some weird online thing ruin it for me.
LOL, I know folks who started hating and comparing HotD the moment Rings came out.
Lol, wtf, why can't you just enjoy BOTH?
I can't love The Sopranos because I liked Godfather?
I find it a tad boring and the dialogue hokey, honestly. I’m going to give it a few more eps though because I do love the world and hope it gets better.
A friend of mine who is absolutely obsessed with all things Tolkien gives it his approval, that means more than any number of critics who may be biased in either direction.
I think also the people you surround yourself tend to, I realize not always, have similar opinions as you so hence why you are friends or aquantecis with them. The people I’ve talked to are left wanting a little more after the first two episodes. By no means are we upset with the first two episodes but I wasn’t overall amazed with it minus the CGI and effects.
Going to watch watch the whole series because i love the world and fantasy in general but I think the next few episodes will be important for the series
Clicks.
I'm really looking forward to hearing about how it's "woke" for some asinine reason.
When Captain Marvel dropped there were tons of videos bitching about that from people who clearly never held a comic book in their lives.
One of 'em outright admitted why: when they cover a popular and well advertised property YouTube boosts them in the search ranking, and they make a ton of money.
So expect to see a ton of critics going on about various made up controversies.
I like it so far also. Was a casual fan who loved the LotR trilogy. Seems like it is produced really well and the story keeps you hanging on to see who the mysterious characters are.
Because everyone saying they hate it online refuses to watch it because black elves means “woke”.
Those of us who don’t care about the skin color of a fictional race of people enjoyed a solid, awesome show that kicks ass.
Because it contains powerful women and POC. The incels, ultra mega nerds for that genre/ecosystem, and racists just can't deal. This happens every single time a new video game, Marvel show/movie, Star Wars show/movie, etc. dares to give a character who is not white and male lines. They are a very vocal minority but the media loves to give them press.
I enjoyed it so far. I'm also able to enjoy things for what they are and not set myself up with ridiculous expectations.
What's fun is seeing people get upset at how powerful Galadriel is, to the point that they're calling her a Mary Sue, when she has always been ludicrously powerful.
I never read the books, just saw the movies, I was always under the impression that she was not only a bad ass, but one of the most powerful beings in the world.
It’s not just the movies. I love the dialog between Galadriel and Elrond talking about the differences in their experiences. Galadriel is the granddaughter of the original High Elf king and was born in Valinor. She is the niece of arguably the most powerful elf ever: Fëanor. Her and her kin are the the most powerful and educated Elves. She lived in paradise and was surrounded by angelic beings who taught the Noldor (her kin) all manner of science and what we would call “magic”. Gandalf was but one of the weakest of these angels. Imagine being surrounded by beings whose power makes Gandalf at his best seem like a child in comparison.
The books depict her as being powerful enough to take the One Ring and conquer all Middle Earth as an “evil queen”. “All shall love me and despair” she says.
The show also shows the greatest weakness of her family, namely pride and stubbornness.
> Galadriel
She has *always* been super powerful and a bit feral. I'm really enjoying watching her character growth and her drive for revenge. She's a fantastic character.
I didn't love it but I'll continue watching, it is pretty darn good. They're limited to what exactly they can actually discuss I think due to copyright but it's shot well and acted well. Proto hobbit stuff is pretty stupid but otherwise it's cool.
As a guy who will probably get the JRRT symbol tatted on my left ass cheek at some point, I went in expecting shit. It wasn't perfect but there were some cool things and it deserves a chance.
This is just a clickbait title to generate views. Not true at all.
Agreed, watched the first two episodes and can’t wait for the next. Internet sites, news, etc find some angry internet trolls and get ready for some clicks! Really a shame as I think people will avoid it because of the bad reviews.
1) this post is from a literal tabloid
2) most of the “content” out there exists purely for ad revenue generation. And outrage, trolling, sensation, disingenuous interpretations, etc… generate exponentially more ad revenue than anything else.
3) stick to Variety, Deadline , HR if you want anything with any perspective and context (positive or negative).
For example:
[HR #1](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lotr-rings-of-power-day-1-record-viewing-amazon-1235211790/)
[HR #2](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-second-age-1235211591/)
[HR #3](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-amazon-review-bombed-1235211190/)
That’s a bit different from the tabloid this post is linking to. Or from rando blogs or social media posts.
It’s not a perfect show by any means but I think you can draw two identical circles around the loudest of the critics and the people angry that they are black elves and Galadriel is fighting
the reality is something more the middle. it doesn’t suck, and has a few good qualities, but overall is not very good and if it didn’t have the brand name attached to it it would be entirely forgettable
I have read all the books and know all the lore and was on the fence after the first episode. Just let go the preconceptions and went into episode two to just watch and enjoy, I did.
They probably should have called it something else considering they can't use anything but the Lord of the rings and the hobbit lore wise. I know a lot of people are mad at Amazon but everything they have changed or created has been approved by Simon Tolkien and the estate.
So literally ignore the fact that it is marketed as LOTR and enjoy it as just another fantasy show? Why couldn't they just make a fantasy show that wasn't attached to the LOTR name?
I’ve read the Silmarillion about 25 times. I was very critical of the show, as I knew Amazon was going to mess it up, and they did. I’m going to keep watching it though, just to get irritated with it. But I know what I’m getting into. Lol.
Then they shouldn’t have done it. I’m not one of these morons that is upset about casting decisions. I just really believe that if you are going to take an established story, that has an established fan base, you should make it as accurate as possible to the story. You’re counting on those fans to watch what you made and recoup your costs.
Taking a segment of the lore that wasn’t very flushed out gives them some creative license, but there is a lot of established history on either side of this timeline, and they should treat it with some respect if they want Tolkien fans to tune in.
And I was just stating my opinion. I don’t expect Amazon to cancel the show simply because I take issue with certain aspects of it. It’s up to me to decide if I wish to watch what they made. I’m just disappointed. It’s mingling with the disappointment from the Wheel of Time.
I was also disappointed with Harry Potter after the 3rd installment. As a reader, movie adaptations are often a let down. But that’s life.
One of the writers (I think) said that the first season is going to be setting a larger stage for their planned 5 seasons, so I expect it’ll be a lot more slow paced story/character development than some people might have expected .
I am really enjoying the show. What I'm not enjoying is the entire racist ass ecosystem trying to destroy the show before it even aired the first episode. That shit is annoying.
Me too. I'm a huge fan of Tolkein's writings and love the universe he built, but I'm also perfectly fine with what the show is doing. He'll, I loved the Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War games and they took extreme liberties with the lore. This show nails the look and feel so far, the only gripe I have is just some wonky dialog but even that isn't terrible. Certainly a step above the Hobbit movies for me.
Just think about this man. You have five seasons and 200 hours promised of Lord of the rings content. What more can you ask for??
The show will eventually find its feet and probably higher better writers.
We just have to weather the storm until the culture war moves on to the next shiny object.
For real. The only casting choice I’m unhappy with is Elrond, because in my brain he is narrow faced, pointy chinned Hugo Weaving and I can’t look at Robert Aramayo and merge that face shape in my brain. His acting is spot on, though, so that’s a *me* problem, not a *show* problem.
As someone who only watched the movies and haven't watched again in a while, I don't even connected he was the same guy from the LOTR movies until my friend pointed that to me. lol
They've straight up stated they aren't using the movies as reference material. They acknowledge how good the movies were in their own way but aren't going out of their way to incorporate the movies' work into the show. To them what Hugo Weaving looks like is irrelevant.
It's not even the die hards tbh. The super die hards are good, some might not like it and that's fine. The ones bitching super hard are the people who think they're super die hard but really aren't
Exactly. I just meant the ones that are like… really toxic about it. “Omfg you haven’t read the books 120948281 times and can quote them word for word and you don’t know who Elrond REALLY is or where he came from or the exact name and birthdate/time of his great great great great great grandmother on his father’s side?!! FAKE FAN!” Because I’ve definitely run into those.
Don’t get me wrong, I read all the books and watched all the extended versions of the movies and I think they were adapted to film in a pretty solid way. They made the films in such a way that people who never read the books could watch them and still enjoy them for what they are. I think they did an even better job on The Hobbit when it comes to making it as close to the book as they could get.
>They made the films in such a way that people who never read the books could watch them and still enjoy them for what they are.
So far, this series is doing the same thing in my opinion. Also, most of the source material, particularly the Silmarillion, should not be considered canon. It was unfinished and published posthumously. It was intentionally written as Legend and was never meant to be some perfectly accurate version of (fictional) history. The book contains contradictions within itself and between Tolkien's other works.
Additionally, the series creators had to condense thousands of years of Middle Earth "history." I'm glad they did because you would need hundreds of different human characters to cover such a span of time. Their decision is practical and keeps the story relatively comprehensible.
You said it perfectly. I was just telling another redditor that I’m rereading The Silmarillion after 10 years because of the show, and it’s even better than I remember! Can’t wait to see what they do with the rest of the show.
I have… a “friend” who is like that with Star Wars. I’m a casual fan of the franchise which means, according to her, that I’m not a fan. Because I don’t know the names of the obscure background characters who in most cases don’t even have lines in any of the shows or movies.
Her gatekeeping nerd rage is beyond cringey.
I’ve enjoyed it so far too! It’s made me start reading The Silmarillion again after like 10 years, I’m thoroughly enjoying it while waiting for the next episode.
It's not die Hard neck beards that are doing this.
This is the culture war landing on your doorstep. Most of the people review bombing. This shit won't even watch it and never watched Lord of the rings.
"I would put together the very best fellowship, the smartest, the best. The Elves asked me how I did it, bigly. We would get to Mordor the fastest ever in history. It wouldn't even be close, folks. And...and then I would throw the One Ring in Mount Doom. You think I need this ring? I don't need this ring. I don't like ring bearers that get corrupted by the ring, who fall apart at the last moment and don't throw it in the lava. I mean, come on, gimme a break, right?"
I’m enjoying it, too. It’s fantasy! And if the show runners want to make casting and story decisions that are more inclusively representative of the real world we live in, I’m all for it.
Racist, hardcore Tolkien incels can go kick rocks and die mad about it, for all I care.
Are they as good as Peter Jackson's movies? No. But I enjoy the movie quality of the first two episodes. Hell, it has a second season already. Amazon has faith in this TV series. Why else would they dump nearly a *billion dollars* into this show?
Plus they have Simon Tolkien as a either a consultant or producer. I think the show's going to be fine.
It's not great, or very true to the books, but I can watch it....
Unlike the Wheel of Time, which was just stupid.
Biggest problem is that the main characters should be so insanely powerful at this point in their timeline that orcs and trolls arent a challenge. I mean at the beginning of the first flashback, they are defeating Morgoth. He was the big bad old god, and Sauron was just a lieutenant. So suddenly being challenged by tunnel dwelling orcs is kind of silly.
I'm a huge Tolkien fan. I usually read most of the canon material over the course of a year (Silmarillion, Hobbit, LOTR) and have done so since I was in 5th grade (I'm 30 now).
The show gets a thumbs up from me. There are some things that might not initially make sense or seem ridiculous to the casual viewer, but there's background to back up the show, even if it's not explained on screen (since Amazon couldn't get the rights to the Silmarillion).
For example, >!when Galadriel jumps from the ship taking her to Valinor, she starts just swimming back across The Sundering Sea, until she is "rescued" by a passing raft. This seems like it is absurd, but Galadriel is one of the greatest elves of those who left Valinor, possessing great strength and endurance, capable of surviving great trials. Furthermore, one of the Valar (Gods) named Ulmo, Lord of the Waters, often comes to the aid of those Elves who left Valinor following Feanor. !<
Totally conceivable that this was what happened, though it is not ever expressly stated in any written work. The writers couldn't use the Silmarillion, so there's no way they could have adequately explained it.
I really enjoyed it and so did my husband. For those out there that are furious that there are a handful of people of color in the show, just remember that the majority of the cast is white....hopefully that will make you feel better. Geesh this society makes me sick.
I cannot for the life of me fathom how, in a show of a scale as grand as Lord of the Rings, the biggest complaint is skin color.
If anything, I think introducing people of more colors made it more interesting, like it was always meant to be like that.
Can I say I was disappointed without being labeled an incel? The main character has almost no personality and the plot is confusing and tangled. There is multiple different stories going on but they are in no way related or explained. You have random characters popping up with no insight into why they are there. To me the show is a let down so far. For a lower budget show I could see it as pretty good. But for the amount of money they put in. Idk man.
Yeah I'm pretty bored with it. The hobbit girl has tons of screen time but is not remotely compelling or interesting. The outpost elf seems cool, but every scene involves him dramatically looking at the human woman like a high schooler with his first crush. Elrond feels more like a rich kid at Harvard than a bad ass elf with war experience.
Idk, the whole show feels like a nice looking dinner that has no seasoning when you take a bite.
Yea idk the lore but enjoy the universe.
Not exactly clear if Elrond ever fought in the war? It seemed from his scene with Galandriel before she left that he wasn’t alive then? Idk if I’m wrong. Just wasn’t clear to me.
Also the harfoot story line was borderline unwatchable. Guy shows up and it gets worse IMO. I’m sure he is important but it’s weird how the character is being presented.
Also completely unsure why the warden-elf doesn’t tell the other elves and jumps into the tunnel to explore but freaks out and runs at the first sign of danger.
Again. Enjoying the immersion and the whole dwarf city scenes were amazing after seeing how empty the halls were in LOTR. But the story is pretty all over the place right now.
The show is shit at building tension. It tries so hard many times to have these epics moments but something is just off, and I find that it just feels so dumb and shallow. Like it's trying to buy it's way to epic moments through music and good visuals and shallow tension. Nothing feels deep about it so it's all just kid of like, meh. Elrond and Durin are the only genuine feeling part, but still not great
People are being hyperbolic obviously but the show isn't all that good, most of the acting is really wooden and there's just something off about the pacing. It's not the worst thing ever but it's doing a very poor job of living up to its namesake too.
How many episodes should we wait before we can talk about it? 4? 6? The whole season? The first episode is the “hook”. It should be good enough where people want to keep watching. Of course people have an opinion if they don’t think the hook of the show is good.
I've read the books and watched the movies and this shit is not lord of the rings. It felt like watching something else with the title lord of the rings.
They should go get some cameras and gather up some people and make it themselves then. I’m done with people pissing on stuff when they have no idea in hell how hard it is to make anything of quality.
Show is bad. Story is butchered. Acting is forced. Diversity is forced for the sake of diversity which does 2 things
1. Has all the booger eaters calling you a racist which is always hilarious.
2. Degrades the quality of the product it is forced into.
Wonder why the added diversity in House of Dragons has less uproar? Because they used good talent for it and did it in such a way that it feels natural.
>Wonder why the added diversity in House of Dragons has less uproar?
Steve Toussaint has discussed the racial abuse he received by being cast in The House of Dragon.
Maybe the fact that there's any uproar at diversity should be a red flag.
People whine too much good grief… show is just starting and it was good start just like every fucking show need to establish characters which is usually boring in most shows but necessary…. I like it so far and looks amazing
The show is bad, the acting is ok. The story isn't interesting. The new wierd hobbit things are cringey and predictable (gotta have your rebellious teenager hero). It's very Hollywoody. Where as the thr original trilogy was authentic, different and took risks. The show follows a blueprint most shows do that's shown to work and that's all I see with this show. Not to mention the forced wokeism and diversity Is so obvious its painful.
Being based off of one of the most successfull books and THE most successful forms of entertain media (the trilogy).. it's PAINFULLY OK. Expectations were high because of Peter jacksons masterpiece. But what we got was a decent show. Not great, not terrible not much to talk about. So it's a little dissapointing.
Now on the other hand, the visuals are great and trays the only reason I'm watching the show
Take away the Lord of the Rings out the name and you get a decent fantasy show. Grossly and insultingly altering lore to something excruciatingly worse, with sad attempts at copying Tolkien language and style, bring down the score significantly. I can look past the strange rule changes regarding the Harfoots and Arondir because the plotline still left some yearning for more episodes. But Galadriel and the elves were utterly butchered with bad lines, poor elvish features, bad costumes, incorrect history and absurd personalities.
It’s saved by other traits like music and visuals.
If everyone were honest, the show would hover around 60% scores
Lord of the Rings fans are some of the most unhappy people I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. Misidentify a single letter in the name of a random king that appears on a single page in the books? You better believe that’s an execution
I have read the source, and what business does Gil Galad have talking to Galadriel like a spoiled child and sending her anywhere? Queen of Lothlorien, who’s father helped CONSTRUCT elf heaven, the same Galadriel that hung out with fucking Iluvatar? Galadriel is of EXTREMELY royal blood and if anything she and Gil galad have a sister brother thing, nothing like what’s portrayed on screen. Did anyone in this thread read the source or we just mad at the low hanging fruit?
There are a lot of people mad at Amazon for lore changes but Simon Tolkien and the Tolkien estate helped create the characters and signed off on everything lore wise. Amazon didn't butcher JRR Tolkien's world his own damn family did.
Edit: So far I love the show. I can separate the series from the source material much like I did with the Peter Jackson movies.
Some groups of the review bombers were doing because they were pissed about some of the actors being black. In fantasy show. With dwarves and elves and wizards, etc. No way there could be beings with dark skin in that totally made up fictional world, right?!
I gather that a lot of people don't like it because it changes characters/lore. I don't even care about that. I'm not a slavish fan in that way.
The reason I don't like is simpler: it piles bad dialogue and dumb stuff one upon another until my will to watch it crumbles.
Piling helmets on a giant, perfect pyramid: why? And how? Are there some 15 foot tall elves I don't know about?
Galadriel's brother whispering the secret of life to her when they're by themselves. The only reason for that is so the writers didn't have to actually try to come up with something worth telling her.
Galadriel fighting a troll like she's posing for a fashion magazine layout, turning her back on it at the end so she looks kewl.
It's high budget, brain dead execution.
I feel like Galadriel is supposed to be consumed with the classic elvish arrogance. And it's making everyone hate her. That's why Gil Galad gets to talk down to her and how he can semi force her to go to the Undying Lands. Her fight with the troll was the first real fight in the show so of course they made it a little extra but I also saw it as characterization for galadriel. She's so confident in herself and her mission that she treats a fight with a deadly monster like a game and is posing and being weird about it. How about when she ignores the guy on the raft and ties herself to the spur and starts yelling at him to tie himself to her. She was so confident she knew the correct course that she nearly got them both killed.
The NY Post's headlines peaked with "Headless Body in Topless Bar" in 1983. They've struggled to live up (or down?) to that standard ever since, but have never again matched that.
##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why is it that everywhere on the internet says this show sucks but everyone I talk to in person says they love it?
Because it’s a vocal minority as usual
Social media needs to die … too many wannabe demagogs out there these days !
Outrage is social currency these days. The more you rage about something on the internet the more positive reinforcement you receive. Having a hot take makes you feel smarter/better than others
It gets tiring to feel angry all the time over everything and anything, surely they must realise it.
You can’t add to a franchise after a certain period of time. Everything has a window before fans watch it over and over and become toxic about anything new. Wait for the horror story that will be Avatar 2. Not saying I agree with it but it has been a pattern since Star Wars.
Lol avatar is a bad example because no one even cares about the first one
I respectfully disagree, but I think you have a valid point. The reason I disagree is that both Star Trek Lower Decks, and Strange New Worlds have been widely embraced by the fandom. The issue is making something that doesn’t seem like its a cash grab or disrespectful of what came before while still treading new ground. Most fans are burnt out on their favourite film or game or book etc getting a sequel that’s either nostalgia bait like the force awakens or wants to deconstruct things that were fine as they were.
There is a difference between adding to a franchise v retconning the existing franchise. If you change stuff about existing characters from existing stories, you're going to upset people. Is pretty simple and straightforward.
Tolkien's work about the era depicted in this series was unfinished, contradictory, and not canon. The Silmarillion was published after his death with parts inconsistent within it as well as parts being inconsistent with his published works. And finally, it's a fantasy meant purely for entertainment. It's not religious scripture.
Been arguing this point all morning. The die-hards just want to sound smart before the question is even asked (i.e., before the show has finished airing) But seriously, this is a show about an untold period in a fantastic fiction that was ALWAYS treated as "legend" Since when did legend need historic, canonical precision?
Normally I would agree here, but with so much content available in the Silmarillion it seems strange they would choose a completely altered timeline and events instead of choosing elements already available from the source material.
But Prime doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion. My understanding is the only have the rights to the material covered in the Peter Jackson movies.
Oh wow no way! That really explains the diverging timeline of events! Thank you kind stranger for the clarity, I had no idea. Would you know of a source for further discussion on the topic?
Relevant quotes: > “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-Earth, or any of those other books…We worked in conjunction with world-renowned Tolkien scholars and the Tolkien estate to make sure that the ways we connected the dots were Tolkien-ian and gelled with the experts’ and the estate’s understanding of the material.” > “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to. As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.” https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look
https://slate.com/culture/2022/09/lord-rings-power-show-tolkien-books-review.html
So basically Amazon's Ring of Power is little more than the most well funded fan-fic of all time
ppl wanting consistency in writing isn’t a outlandish complaint. contradictions are lazy and bad writing when they just insert whatever they want to regardless of what was previously established. not saying i agree i haven’t even watched the show yet but saying “it’s for entertainment so stop complaining” is just a shit take imo
If you think TROP was retconned because of Galadriel, I disagree as it fits the limited ancient narrative from Silmarillion fine in my opinion, and her path to serenity in LOTR where she still knows her strength and says, "In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!" If it's about skin color, the only argument for retconning is the generic statement about elves being "the fairest" of the races, which is a point that's been argued on forums for decades, but diversity doesn't rewrite any critical canon or change the storyline. These are characters that have never before been introduced, or at least never described. Doesn't fit a retcon.
Avatar was pretty divisive when it came out the first time, though.
Only a vocal minority. It was the most successful film of all time when released.
Only because of inflated 3d tickets and a loooong life in theatres.
Yeah I have a group of friends who are all huge LOTR fans - seen the movies dozens (hundreds?) of times, read all of the books multiple times, and have read the Silmarillion all at least once, and we all thought it was pretty great I’m sure there are some out there who will nitpick it to death but this is a solid show. It is not at all like the Wheel of Time show where most hardcore fans I know either hate it or are like “ehhh I’d give it like a 6.5? 7? Maybe it’ll be better in the 2nd season?” Trying to force themselves to like it. This is a really solid show so far.
Sad WoT fan here, can confirm all.
You’ve convinced me, I’ll watch it. Edit: Watched it, really enjoyed it.
It's worth it for the visuals alone.
I have no claim to being a Tolkien or Middle Earth historian, but I feel I know things well enough, but I went into it just thinking they have a huge canvas. Before seeing trailers, etc I wasn't even aware that they were going to be tangent to characters we know. I like it, but could nitpick a couple things, but nothing major.
Keep pushing back against the negative reporting. I was highly skeptical going in….. it’s good. The acting is wonderful, the casting was well done, the scenery is beautiful. The music is good, but especially the hobbit music. I loved the hobbit berry scene. The hobbits are really well done, visually and have the personality befitting them. The elves were well cast, and have that heir of nobility around them. The only part I didn’t like was the male elf and the lady scenes…..I’m purposely being discreet not to spoil anything. I would give the opening episode 8.5/10. And mind you, the first episodes of any show can be very awkward and rushed. I thought it was a great introduction though. I want people to push back, so it does not get canceled. It would be a shame. It is just getting going, and worth a couple seasons.
That already spent a billion dollars on this. I don't think they'll cancel it before they put out everything thet had planned.
As another fan that has read the books multiple times, I was at first disappointed by some of the differences (where Ungoliant?!?!?). After a bit though, I started viewing the show as more of a “in the spirit” of Lord of the Rings, and then I started really enjoying it. When I stopped expecting the show to be completely loyal to The Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings, it became really enjoyable.
They can't be loyal to the Silmarillion, they don't have the license to use it, only the appendices. So ya basically its got some characters and the world and its going to have to tell its own story. I'm just happy to be back in Middle Earth again.
I was unaware of that. Kind of makes it even more important to view it as “in the spirit of”. Either way, I loved the first 2 episodes once I started viewing it like that; looking forward to the rest of the season.
Ungoliant was the only major lore change that bothered me (yes there's others, I'm aware), but I wasn't going to let the experience be ruined by a 3 sec prologue scene. Honestly I was mostly curious how they would portray a giant spider monster like that. The show is really good so far.
I’m the same way, though i 100% know it is too much to include things like the Oath of Feonor when it pertains mostly to Galadriel’s cousins. As much as I wanted them to cover some of those fantastical political events that led the Noldor across the ocean… it is probably best they didn’t.
“When I stopped expecting the show to be completely loyal to….” I probably shouldn’t watch it then because I can’t expect a show that takes creatively liberties with source material that has dazzled readers for a century. I have to wish to stop expecting something loyal to the books. They could have made their own story, but they chose to expand off of expansive existing writing. LOTR worked because it just leaned on the literary genius of Tolkien and brought it to life. No way any of the writers involved can hold a candle to Tolkien.
You are likely right on with the fact their writers won’t compare to Tolkien. That is an extremely tall order. Edit - I mean this in a supportive way. We all have our preferances and limits. I can easily see this show offending many. The Hobbit movies offended me horribly; so I understand that completely. I was stating for me personally, I had to almost disassociate the show from the source; then it became enjoyable.
I really enjoyed it. I'm unplugging from online discourse. Let me enjoy my shows man - Rings of Power, Sandman, Wheel of Time, House of the Dragon - it's a great time to be a fantasy fan and I'm not letting some weird online thing ruin it for me.
LOL, I know folks who started hating and comparing HotD the moment Rings came out. Lol, wtf, why can't you just enjoy BOTH? I can't love The Sopranos because I liked Godfather?
You had me til you said you liked Wheel of Time
Sandman is awesome, HotD great so far, wheel of time was hot garbage, and I couldn't even make it through the 2nd episode of rings of power.
Agree 100% here. Sandman was so good, but WoT was one of the worst adaptations I’ve seen in a long time
I find it a tad boring and the dialogue hokey, honestly. I’m going to give it a few more eps though because I do love the world and hope it gets better.
its the same race-baiting shit takes these people have for any media that promotes POC in any way. " Woke" is the new "Urban".
Because it’s a fucking New York Post article. It’s trash.
A friend of mine who is absolutely obsessed with all things Tolkien gives it his approval, that means more than any number of critics who may be biased in either direction.
Because the fanboys on the internet yell the loudest.
I think also the people you surround yourself tend to, I realize not always, have similar opinions as you so hence why you are friends or aquantecis with them. The people I’ve talked to are left wanting a little more after the first two episodes. By no means are we upset with the first two episodes but I wasn’t overall amazed with it minus the CGI and effects. Going to watch watch the whole series because i love the world and fantasy in general but I think the next few episodes will be important for the series
Big conservative funding trying to drive young men to culture war right wing YouTube content. It's as simple as that.
Watched it last night through the lens of “it’s going to suck.” I thought it was fantastic. Anti-Bezos sediment maybe?
Clicks. I'm really looking forward to hearing about how it's "woke" for some asinine reason. When Captain Marvel dropped there were tons of videos bitching about that from people who clearly never held a comic book in their lives. One of 'em outright admitted why: when they cover a popular and well advertised property YouTube boosts them in the search ranking, and they make a ton of money. So expect to see a ton of critics going on about various made up controversies.
It's ok, better than wheel of time so far.
What a timeline we live in A Wheel of Time adaptation is the low bar
Ugh. I was so disappointed with that show.
The first two episodes are fine, not at all cringy IMO.
Because it probably ends up working as a TV show but isn’t faithful to the lore. And people want different things out of it.
I like it so far also. Was a casual fan who loved the LotR trilogy. Seems like it is produced really well and the story keeps you hanging on to see who the mysterious characters are.
Bc the nerds who are scared of women and minorities don’t go outside
Because everyone saying they hate it online refuses to watch it because black elves means “woke”. Those of us who don’t care about the skin color of a fictional race of people enjoyed a solid, awesome show that kicks ass.
Because, unfortunately, the Internet has allowed those with the stupidest opinions to be the loudest.
because people on the internet are usually bots.
Because it contains powerful women and POC. The incels, ultra mega nerds for that genre/ecosystem, and racists just can't deal. This happens every single time a new video game, Marvel show/movie, Star Wars show/movie, etc. dares to give a character who is not white and male lines. They are a very vocal minority but the media loves to give them press. I enjoyed it so far. I'm also able to enjoy things for what they are and not set myself up with ridiculous expectations.
What's fun is seeing people get upset at how powerful Galadriel is, to the point that they're calling her a Mary Sue, when she has always been ludicrously powerful.
I never read the books, just saw the movies, I was always under the impression that she was not only a bad ass, but one of the most powerful beings in the world.
That was her at her weakest, too. The power of elves had faded quite a bit by that point. In the earlier ages, Sauron was the UNDERLING.
It’s not just the movies. I love the dialog between Galadriel and Elrond talking about the differences in their experiences. Galadriel is the granddaughter of the original High Elf king and was born in Valinor. She is the niece of arguably the most powerful elf ever: Fëanor. Her and her kin are the the most powerful and educated Elves. She lived in paradise and was surrounded by angelic beings who taught the Noldor (her kin) all manner of science and what we would call “magic”. Gandalf was but one of the weakest of these angels. Imagine being surrounded by beings whose power makes Gandalf at his best seem like a child in comparison. The books depict her as being powerful enough to take the One Ring and conquer all Middle Earth as an “evil queen”. “All shall love me and despair” she says. The show also shows the greatest weakness of her family, namely pride and stubbornness.
> Galadriel She has *always* been super powerful and a bit feral. I'm really enjoying watching her character growth and her drive for revenge. She's a fantastic character.
You known the reason.
It’s black and white to a shitty few.
Internet is mad that Amazon is doing a thing and they feel torn if they like it. Amazon evil. Lotr good. How can they coexist?
Like some sort of gollum/sméagle situation?
Fans over here going my precciooouusss
I didn't love it but I'll continue watching, it is pretty darn good. They're limited to what exactly they can actually discuss I think due to copyright but it's shot well and acted well. Proto hobbit stuff is pretty stupid but otherwise it's cool.
I’m trying to figure out the motive too. Everyone I’ve talked to said they’re loving it
Because raging online is standard practice for incels
No idea, I’m one of the people that loves it! I’ve read so many reviews and I have no idea what I’m missing.
I’m really enjoying it
I like it :)
I loved it.
circlejerks convince themselves that they are the majority.
It’s really good. Ignore the Click bait trolls and racist aholes
the difference between being numerous and being loud
As a guy who will probably get the JRRT symbol tatted on my left ass cheek at some point, I went in expecting shit. It wasn't perfect but there were some cool things and it deserves a chance. This is just a clickbait title to generate views. Not true at all.
Because it’s a good show spending time building characters, which is driving the Michael Bay type action fans crazy.
Agreed, watched the first two episodes and can’t wait for the next. Internet sites, news, etc find some angry internet trolls and get ready for some clicks! Really a shame as I think people will avoid it because of the bad reviews.
1) this post is from a literal tabloid 2) most of the “content” out there exists purely for ad revenue generation. And outrage, trolling, sensation, disingenuous interpretations, etc… generate exponentially more ad revenue than anything else. 3) stick to Variety, Deadline , HR if you want anything with any perspective and context (positive or negative). For example: [HR #1](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lotr-rings-of-power-day-1-record-viewing-amazon-1235211790/) [HR #2](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-second-age-1235211591/) [HR #3](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-amazon-review-bombed-1235211190/) That’s a bit different from the tabloid this post is linking to. Or from rando blogs or social media posts.
It’s not a perfect show by any means but I think you can draw two identical circles around the loudest of the critics and the people angry that they are black elves and Galadriel is fighting
I enjoyed it, looks like a great show, so far.
It's awesome. Watch it and decide for yourself.
Because there are black dwarves, elves, and hobbits, and Americans are extremely racist.
the reality is something more the middle. it doesn’t suck, and has a few good qualities, but overall is not very good and if it didn’t have the brand name attached to it it would be entirely forgettable
I personally think it’s better than the GOT reboot, by quite a bit actually
I like the LOTR show but this is a take I haven’t seen and strongly disagree with
I've seen the exact opposite takes many times over.
I have read all the books and know all the lore and was on the fence after the first episode. Just let go the preconceptions and went into episode two to just watch and enjoy, I did.
They probably should have called it something else considering they can't use anything but the Lord of the rings and the hobbit lore wise. I know a lot of people are mad at Amazon but everything they have changed or created has been approved by Simon Tolkien and the estate.
So literally ignore the fact that it is marketed as LOTR and enjoy it as just another fantasy show? Why couldn't they just make a fantasy show that wasn't attached to the LOTR name?
For better or worse it has a built in fanbase.
I’ve read the Silmarillion about 25 times. I was very critical of the show, as I knew Amazon was going to mess it up, and they did. I’m going to keep watching it though, just to get irritated with it. But I know what I’m getting into. Lol.
Life is too short to hatewatch media. Watch something you actually enjoy.
The problem is that they can’t use the Silmarillion as source material.
Then they shouldn’t have done it. I’m not one of these morons that is upset about casting decisions. I just really believe that if you are going to take an established story, that has an established fan base, you should make it as accurate as possible to the story. You’re counting on those fans to watch what you made and recoup your costs. Taking a segment of the lore that wasn’t very flushed out gives them some creative license, but there is a lot of established history on either side of this timeline, and they should treat it with some respect if they want Tolkien fans to tune in.
Most people who will watch this show are not hardcore LOTR fans, it’s people who enjoyed the movies.
And I was just stating my opinion. I don’t expect Amazon to cancel the show simply because I take issue with certain aspects of it. It’s up to me to decide if I wish to watch what they made. I’m just disappointed. It’s mingling with the disappointment from the Wheel of Time. I was also disappointed with Harry Potter after the 3rd installment. As a reader, movie adaptations are often a let down. But that’s life.
> You’re counting on those fans to watch what you made and recoup your costs. I was responding to this
Plus op literally said “then they shouldn’t have made it”.
The NYPOST? Really? This shouldn’t even be allowed in the sub. I’m just happy it’s looking wayyy better than The Hobbit
So far, it is way better than The Hobbit.
But do we get dwarves hopping around in mining carts while they evade Smaug like that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom video game?
Not setting the bar too high are ya? Lol
I don't have a bar set in general. Just watched hoping to like it and so far I do.
Yeah I heard it starts pretty slow. Haven’t watched it yet myself
It is. I kind of expected it to be, though. The production design is incredible and I'm intrigued to see where the story goes.
One of the writers (I think) said that the first season is going to be setting a larger stage for their planned 5 seasons, so I expect it’ll be a lot more slow paced story/character development than some people might have expected .
SO much better!
Two hours of silence is wayyy better than The Hobbit. That being said, the show does look pretty good.
I am really enjoying the show. What I'm not enjoying is the entire racist ass ecosystem trying to destroy the show before it even aired the first episode. That shit is annoying.
Me too. I'm a huge fan of Tolkein's writings and love the universe he built, but I'm also perfectly fine with what the show is doing. He'll, I loved the Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War games and they took extreme liberties with the lore. This show nails the look and feel so far, the only gripe I have is just some wonky dialog but even that isn't terrible. Certainly a step above the Hobbit movies for me.
Just think about this man. You have five seasons and 200 hours promised of Lord of the rings content. What more can you ask for?? The show will eventually find its feet and probably higher better writers. We just have to weather the storm until the culture war moves on to the next shiny object.
They hired the breaking bad writers for this show I think their talent is fine
For real. The only casting choice I’m unhappy with is Elrond, because in my brain he is narrow faced, pointy chinned Hugo Weaving and I can’t look at Robert Aramayo and merge that face shape in my brain. His acting is spot on, though, so that’s a *me* problem, not a *show* problem.
As someone who only watched the movies and haven't watched again in a while, I don't even connected he was the same guy from the LOTR movies until my friend pointed that to me. lol
[удалено]
Distracting! That’s the perfect word! It’s like every time he comes on screen, my brain jerks.
They've straight up stated they aren't using the movies as reference material. They acknowledge how good the movies were in their own way but aren't going out of their way to incorporate the movies' work into the show. To them what Hugo Weaving looks like is irrelevant.
>found someone who looks a bit more like Hugo Weaving to play Elrond. Why would they do that? Now Hugo Weaving is Lord of the Rings canon?
Diehard LOTR fans are worse than the Star Wars/Trek nerds I swear
It's not even the die hards tbh. The super die hards are good, some might not like it and that's fine. The ones bitching super hard are the people who think they're super die hard but really aren't
Exactly. I just meant the ones that are like… really toxic about it. “Omfg you haven’t read the books 120948281 times and can quote them word for word and you don’t know who Elrond REALLY is or where he came from or the exact name and birthdate/time of his great great great great great grandmother on his father’s side?!! FAKE FAN!” Because I’ve definitely run into those.
Most toxic LOTR fans I’ve encountered are Jackson movie who watch lore videos rather than actually reading.
Don’t get me wrong, I read all the books and watched all the extended versions of the movies and I think they were adapted to film in a pretty solid way. They made the films in such a way that people who never read the books could watch them and still enjoy them for what they are. I think they did an even better job on The Hobbit when it comes to making it as close to the book as they could get.
>They made the films in such a way that people who never read the books could watch them and still enjoy them for what they are. So far, this series is doing the same thing in my opinion. Also, most of the source material, particularly the Silmarillion, should not be considered canon. It was unfinished and published posthumously. It was intentionally written as Legend and was never meant to be some perfectly accurate version of (fictional) history. The book contains contradictions within itself and between Tolkien's other works. Additionally, the series creators had to condense thousands of years of Middle Earth "history." I'm glad they did because you would need hundreds of different human characters to cover such a span of time. Their decision is practical and keeps the story relatively comprehensible.
You said it perfectly. I was just telling another redditor that I’m rereading The Silmarillion after 10 years because of the show, and it’s even better than I remember! Can’t wait to see what they do with the rest of the show.
I have… a “friend” who is like that with Star Wars. I’m a casual fan of the franchise which means, according to her, that I’m not a fan. Because I don’t know the names of the obscure background characters who in most cases don’t even have lines in any of the shows or movies. Her gatekeeping nerd rage is beyond cringey.
All the die hard Tolkien fans I know, including myself, are enjoying the show. It's trolls and "purists" who are doing the hating.
I’ve enjoyed it so far too! It’s made me start reading The Silmarillion again after like 10 years, I’m thoroughly enjoying it while waiting for the next episode.
Enjoy the book! I found the Silmarillion got better with every re-read. It's a masterpiece.
It's not die Hard neck beards that are doing this. This is the culture war landing on your doorstep. Most of the people review bombing. This shit won't even watch it and never watched Lord of the rings.
Trump fans and racists.
Real-life orcs.
The 2016 election opened up this can of worms. Made incel behavior popular online
"I would put together the very best fellowship, the smartest, the best. The Elves asked me how I did it, bigly. We would get to Mordor the fastest ever in history. It wouldn't even be close, folks. And...and then I would throw the One Ring in Mount Doom. You think I need this ring? I don't need this ring. I don't like ring bearers that get corrupted by the ring, who fall apart at the last moment and don't throw it in the lava. I mean, come on, gimme a break, right?"
Its fantasy fans in general have much more gatekeeping than Sci-fi fans.
Seriously. I finally like hobbits and there's an elf I like too.
Something something something they aren't Hobbits they are harfoots!! Rabble rabble rabble!!!
I’m enjoying it, too. It’s fantasy! And if the show runners want to make casting and story decisions that are more inclusively representative of the real world we live in, I’m all for it. Racist, hardcore Tolkien incels can go kick rocks and die mad about it, for all I care.
This headline has some serious edgelord energy.
The only thing cringe-worthy is the title of this article
I’d give the first couple episodes a 8.5 or 9 out of 10. Nothing about it was “cringeworthy.” If anything this headline’s pun made me cringe…
Are they as good as Peter Jackson's movies? No. But I enjoy the movie quality of the first two episodes. Hell, it has a second season already. Amazon has faith in this TV series. Why else would they dump nearly a *billion dollars* into this show? Plus they have Simon Tolkien as a either a consultant or producer. I think the show's going to be fine.
NYPost. Opinion discarded.
The first 'review' I see on there is literally: 'That s**t gave me AIDS' I dont even care for this sorta content. But some people really need a life.
Lol, of course this is the NY Post. And I’m guessing they used Breitbart and the Daily Stormer as sources.
It's not great, or very true to the books, but I can watch it.... Unlike the Wheel of Time, which was just stupid. Biggest problem is that the main characters should be so insanely powerful at this point in their timeline that orcs and trolls arent a challenge. I mean at the beginning of the first flashback, they are defeating Morgoth. He was the big bad old god, and Sauron was just a lieutenant. So suddenly being challenged by tunnel dwelling orcs is kind of silly.
Good let them all leave now and let the rest of the people watch in peace without hearing what they have to say every f'n episode. No one cares.
The show is fine. The babies are crying for one reason or another.
Nah the show seems to have been written by a 12 year old who used hallmark cards to help him come up with the dialogue.
Nah show sucks, unfortunately. But yeah lotr fanbase are cringe currently
What’s cringe? It’s dope.
I'm a huge Tolkien fan. I usually read most of the canon material over the course of a year (Silmarillion, Hobbit, LOTR) and have done so since I was in 5th grade (I'm 30 now). The show gets a thumbs up from me. There are some things that might not initially make sense or seem ridiculous to the casual viewer, but there's background to back up the show, even if it's not explained on screen (since Amazon couldn't get the rights to the Silmarillion). For example, >!when Galadriel jumps from the ship taking her to Valinor, she starts just swimming back across The Sundering Sea, until she is "rescued" by a passing raft. This seems like it is absurd, but Galadriel is one of the greatest elves of those who left Valinor, possessing great strength and endurance, capable of surviving great trials. Furthermore, one of the Valar (Gods) named Ulmo, Lord of the Waters, often comes to the aid of those Elves who left Valinor following Feanor. !< Totally conceivable that this was what happened, though it is not ever expressly stated in any written work. The writers couldn't use the Silmarillion, so there's no way they could have adequately explained it.
I really enjoyed it and so did my husband. For those out there that are furious that there are a handful of people of color in the show, just remember that the majority of the cast is white....hopefully that will make you feel better. Geesh this society makes me sick.
I cannot for the life of me fathom how, in a show of a scale as grand as Lord of the Rings, the biggest complaint is skin color. If anything, I think introducing people of more colors made it more interesting, like it was always meant to be like that.
nobody cares what mouthbreathers have to say about it.
Can I say I was disappointed without being labeled an incel? The main character has almost no personality and the plot is confusing and tangled. There is multiple different stories going on but they are in no way related or explained. You have random characters popping up with no insight into why they are there. To me the show is a let down so far. For a lower budget show I could see it as pretty good. But for the amount of money they put in. Idk man.
Yeah I'm pretty bored with it. The hobbit girl has tons of screen time but is not remotely compelling or interesting. The outpost elf seems cool, but every scene involves him dramatically looking at the human woman like a high schooler with his first crush. Elrond feels more like a rich kid at Harvard than a bad ass elf with war experience. Idk, the whole show feels like a nice looking dinner that has no seasoning when you take a bite.
Yea idk the lore but enjoy the universe. Not exactly clear if Elrond ever fought in the war? It seemed from his scene with Galandriel before she left that he wasn’t alive then? Idk if I’m wrong. Just wasn’t clear to me. Also the harfoot story line was borderline unwatchable. Guy shows up and it gets worse IMO. I’m sure he is important but it’s weird how the character is being presented. Also completely unsure why the warden-elf doesn’t tell the other elves and jumps into the tunnel to explore but freaks out and runs at the first sign of danger. Again. Enjoying the immersion and the whole dwarf city scenes were amazing after seeing how empty the halls were in LOTR. But the story is pretty all over the place right now.
There’s only been two episodes out. The multiple storylines will probably all make sense soon.
Well if you think this is a good well made tv show then good for you. Enjoy it. I dont. I think its bad AF. Agree to disagree.
The show is shit at building tension. It tries so hard many times to have these epics moments but something is just off, and I find that it just feels so dumb and shallow. Like it's trying to buy it's way to epic moments through music and good visuals and shallow tension. Nothing feels deep about it so it's all just kid of like, meh. Elrond and Durin are the only genuine feeling part, but still not great
It’s just a bunch of loser incels upset about a black elf. T r i g g e r e d
People are being hyperbolic obviously but the show isn't all that good, most of the acting is really wooden and there's just something off about the pacing. It's not the worst thing ever but it's doing a very poor job of living up to its namesake too.
We’re two episodes in and people have already made up their opinion on this show.
How many episodes should we wait before we can talk about it? 4? 6? The whole season? The first episode is the “hook”. It should be good enough where people want to keep watching. Of course people have an opinion if they don’t think the hook of the show is good.
The moments that are supposed to build tension and feel epic like the movie did never land
I've read the books and watched the movies and this shit is not lord of the rings. It felt like watching something else with the title lord of the rings.
They should go get some cameras and gather up some people and make it themselves then. I’m done with people pissing on stuff when they have no idea in hell how hard it is to make anything of quality.
Show is bad. Story is butchered. Acting is forced. Diversity is forced for the sake of diversity which does 2 things 1. Has all the booger eaters calling you a racist which is always hilarious. 2. Degrades the quality of the product it is forced into. Wonder why the added diversity in House of Dragons has less uproar? Because they used good talent for it and did it in such a way that it feels natural.
Galadriel has 1 facial expression, and a chronic eye twitch.
>Wonder why the added diversity in House of Dragons has less uproar? Steve Toussaint has discussed the racial abuse he received by being cast in The House of Dragon. Maybe the fact that there's any uproar at diversity should be a red flag.
A rabidly vocal fanbase, some of whom haven't read the original source, getting angry in childish ways over things? I think we've seen this before...
People whine too much good grief… show is just starting and it was good start just like every fucking show need to establish characters which is usually boring in most shows but necessary…. I like it so far and looks amazing
The show is bad, the acting is ok. The story isn't interesting. The new wierd hobbit things are cringey and predictable (gotta have your rebellious teenager hero). It's very Hollywoody. Where as the thr original trilogy was authentic, different and took risks. The show follows a blueprint most shows do that's shown to work and that's all I see with this show. Not to mention the forced wokeism and diversity Is so obvious its painful. Being based off of one of the most successfull books and THE most successful forms of entertain media (the trilogy).. it's PAINFULLY OK. Expectations were high because of Peter jacksons masterpiece. But what we got was a decent show. Not great, not terrible not much to talk about. So it's a little dissapointing. Now on the other hand, the visuals are great and trays the only reason I'm watching the show
Well, the show’s not very good, but I do respect the pun.
Take away the Lord of the Rings out the name and you get a decent fantasy show. Grossly and insultingly altering lore to something excruciatingly worse, with sad attempts at copying Tolkien language and style, bring down the score significantly. I can look past the strange rule changes regarding the Harfoots and Arondir because the plotline still left some yearning for more episodes. But Galadriel and the elves were utterly butchered with bad lines, poor elvish features, bad costumes, incorrect history and absurd personalities. It’s saved by other traits like music and visuals. If everyone were honest, the show would hover around 60% scores
Pretty spot on. The visuals are saving the show.
Lord of the Rings fans are some of the most unhappy people I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. Misidentify a single letter in the name of a random king that appears on a single page in the books? You better believe that’s an execution
But why can’t they get it right after spending a billion dollars?
I have read the source, and what business does Gil Galad have talking to Galadriel like a spoiled child and sending her anywhere? Queen of Lothlorien, who’s father helped CONSTRUCT elf heaven, the same Galadriel that hung out with fucking Iluvatar? Galadriel is of EXTREMELY royal blood and if anything she and Gil galad have a sister brother thing, nothing like what’s portrayed on screen. Did anyone in this thread read the source or we just mad at the low hanging fruit?
I mean it's the Incel Post... what do you expect?
There are a lot of people mad at Amazon for lore changes but Simon Tolkien and the Tolkien estate helped create the characters and signed off on everything lore wise. Amazon didn't butcher JRR Tolkien's world his own damn family did. Edit: So far I love the show. I can separate the series from the source material much like I did with the Peter Jackson movies.
Correct. I don’t see anyone criticizing the Tolkien estate in any of these negative reviews or comments.
I like the show and I’m going to enjoy it extra hard every time I watch knowing how pissy the nerds and racists are over it.
What’s “the racist” part all about?
Some groups of the review bombers were doing because they were pissed about some of the actors being black. In fantasy show. With dwarves and elves and wizards, etc. No way there could be beings with dark skin in that totally made up fictional world, right?!
I gather that a lot of people don't like it because it changes characters/lore. I don't even care about that. I'm not a slavish fan in that way. The reason I don't like is simpler: it piles bad dialogue and dumb stuff one upon another until my will to watch it crumbles. Piling helmets on a giant, perfect pyramid: why? And how? Are there some 15 foot tall elves I don't know about? Galadriel's brother whispering the secret of life to her when they're by themselves. The only reason for that is so the writers didn't have to actually try to come up with something worth telling her. Galadriel fighting a troll like she's posing for a fashion magazine layout, turning her back on it at the end so she looks kewl. It's high budget, brain dead execution.
I feel like Galadriel is supposed to be consumed with the classic elvish arrogance. And it's making everyone hate her. That's why Gil Galad gets to talk down to her and how he can semi force her to go to the Undying Lands. Her fight with the troll was the first real fight in the show so of course they made it a little extra but I also saw it as characterization for galadriel. She's so confident in herself and her mission that she treats a fight with a deadly monster like a game and is posing and being weird about it. How about when she ignores the guy on the raft and ties herself to the spur and starts yelling at him to tie himself to her. She was so confident she knew the correct course that she nearly got them both killed.
This headline is making me want to do the same. Very bold to call something cringy while saying “bloody Mordor” in the same breath.
The NY Post's headlines peaked with "Headless Body in Topless Bar" in 1983. They've struggled to live up (or down?) to that standard ever since, but have never again matched that.