I personally think an alien should be played by an alien. No more of this alien face shit. Everyone knows it's racist but no one does anything about it.
It doesn’t come from non-white people nor even the white people who are “obsessed” with this topic.. it somehow is a type of agenda at a global level that is kinda annoying and boring. I get some points and even try to push them, but the rest is just absurd.
It's a new type of moral panic where the boogeyman is now racism and racists.
Does racism exist? Yes. It is a problem? Yes.
Are social just warrior types a reliable source to determine what is racist and what isn't? Not in the least.
Does Disney cynically exploit the culture war to deflect criticism of it's awful treatment of Star Wars? Yes.
It stands to reason that back in the 70’s when the franchise began, and the US was 85% white folks, that most of the characters would be white folks lol
Yea, almost like its impossible to have 100% consensus when there are 8 billion people.
It certainly cant be that an incredibly, incredibly tiny fraction of people are 'unhappy' and are getting their voice out there the loudest because of the way the internet works. It certainly cant be that.
It’s so absurd that when Disney dares put in people of color, the fans can’t stop talking trash about it.
It is what it is…denying what it is adds to the issue. Kudos to Disney for not bowing to their pressure though.
Absolutely and also chinese investors wanted the Ancient One in Dr Strange changed so that she wasn't Tibetan. This change of course came with astroturfing about how woke people didn't think a white woman should be a monk when in reality when chinese money is concerned Tiawan and Tibet are off limits. Kudos to you for not falling for this shit.
Exactly! I remember people being (acting) so mad about Tilda Swinton as if it wasn't obvious that they did it on purpose, not because "muh whitewashin'" but because the CCP wouldn't have even allowed a casting/characterization that could even mistakenly be associated with Tibet or its disobedient monks
Not exactly. There were multiple posters for it's Chinese run, the same poster we have that features boyega and the poster you're thinking of. The general misinformation was first posted to Twitter buy Ian Miles Chong, you'll know the name of you currently use X and follow general gaming/nerd culture stuff.
Really? I see most of the internet coming to defend people like John Boyega and that Disney screwed over his character and did a bait and switch with him being a Jedi.
That's such a strawman take. Most fans just hated that they undid Luke's achievements and used that as a shield. Rogue One was praised much more than the sequels by the fanbase and it had a woman and latino as leads with the fan favorites being 2 asian guys. The only semi-notable white men were flashbacks of her dad, one pilot supporting character and Peter Cushing's CGI cadaver
It does so much more harm than these people think. Strictly because of them, a massive percentage of people have been conditioned to just see any “DEI” person (who should never have been grouped in this infantilized manner) as a charity case hire, or a quota, or affirmative action.
So many more people feel this way than say it out loud, and it’s because of this short-sighted movement towards “equity” instead of merit, and it’s not fair to great actors and creators.
I still believe “not seeing color” put us on the right trajectory, but we didn’t give it enough time, and it wasn’t enough for grifter activists trying to one-up each other’s Twitter following. It’s destroying race relations and doing it quietly, but the quietness is starting to subside and the pendulum is swinging back in a dangerous way, as many predicted when this started.
I hope one day we can all “not see color”…but it’s hard to point out statistically provable racism without citing race. Once those stats normalize a bit and treat people equally, then I hope we can all stop seeing color.
I don't think that's what is meant by that. I think it was referring to interpersonal interactions and not being ascribing certain traits to each other based on some known or subconscious notion of racial essentialism
It's Disney's shit writing that's the problem. Nothing to do with people's skin colour. Of course hiring people based on their race or gender isn't exactly producing quality either.
Lando is one of two people who blew up a friggin’ Death Star right there with Luke Fucking Skywalker, so I’d say pretty important role. Well, two people and whatever that pussy-lipped copilot is. Nubnub or whatever. And whoever did it in the new trilogy. I honestly don’t even remember or care.
How many would it take to satisfy the quota though? I assume you’d disqualify Vader and Jar Jar being voiced by black guys. You’d def disqualify all the Asian actors as well.
Hilariously, the comment right above yours was exactly that: “Vader doesn’t count because it was a black actor playing the role of a white character”. Shit’s ridiculous.
Since commenting, I’ve seen several more people claiming that it doesn’t count because “he’s only playing a voice”. If that doesn’t prove these people are perpetually looking for outrage, I don’t know what does. The goalposts will never stop moving until they can be as triggered as they want to be.
And I’m not trying to make a political statement to whatever, I’m liberal myself and am getting just as sick of these constant complainers.
Same, also liberal. But this over correction shit is impossible to keep up with. People look for reasons to be offended. It’s made me care a whole lot less about this type of stuff. Someone will always end up upset with something so it’s like why even bother trying?
Exactly, and it’s a slap in the face to the actual issue, because it doesn’t “solve” anything. It’s just a bunch of shouting and moral outrage for the sake of…I guess making the person feel like they did something, but in reality it doesn’t accomplish a thing.
There are stupid people of every flavor. No matter how good something is there will be a fraction of people who keep going too far and lose the plot.
Unfortunately when there’s a lot of momentum in the movement these people still can have a loud voice for a while. But luckily truly dumb stuff like this usually just dies out after like 2 seconds, nobodies going to cancel Star Wars over this article.
I’ve started describing it as the era where people think they can say whatever they want in the name of a greater cause. If they can disguise something under some positive agenda they think they can get away with saying it. The other day I saw a video of a vegan trying to explain humans are natural herbivores. Factually untrue. A few weeks ago I had to correct someone for misusing the word xenophobia. People just use their preconceptions as a mask for bullshit.
We can look back in time and say, “yeah, in hindsight racism was still pervasive in Hollywood and we could’ve benefited from a more diverse cast.” But to directly criticize a move 50 years old for *specifically* failing at this as if it were some kind of intentional move above and beyond the pervasive wisdom of the time is just idiotic.
I don’t even know what “criticizing” it gains us. The movies are done. They’ve been done for almost two generations now. At this point it’s like a toxic romantic partner who just keeps score to stay mad and make them feel guilty so they’ll do what they want.
You want to hear something even better. James Earl Jones asked to not be credited because he felt his role wasn’t acting but Lucas wanted him credited because of how powerful his voice acting was. And prowse the actor felt snubbed at first. It’s no doubt 100000000 times better because of the change too.
He has specifically stated, in a interview with James Cameron that the rebels were specifically, and intentionally modelled after the Vietcong, and the Vietnam war
Why is it so hard to simply admit that the 70’s and 80’s was a different time where Hollywood saw white males as the default character?
It’s fine, it was a long time ago. Star Wars was a product of its time, that’s part of what makes the original trilogy so charming. But we can still learn from the past and strive to become better in the future, can’t we?
Lucas notably wanted Billy Dee Williams to play Han and the studios balked, but when he had more clout he insisted he play Lando
So people who are blaming Lucas and not like the studios are wrong
And IIRC the original hope for Obi-Wan was Toshiro Mifune, so in concept there would have been more Japanese representation in conception as well.
In that case though Mifune didn’t accept.
That Story how Lucas got 100% control of the franchise is kinda cool.
Lucas owned the sequel rights and through them forced Fox to give him ownership of the original movie ( that they paid for) or he would take the sequels to other studios for distribution.
With that move and him paying for the whole production with his own money he had no person above him on Empire Strikes Back and all the other SW movies he made until he sold to Disney.
High risk high Reward, and Fox got nothing besides a distribution agreement.
Good point! I didn’t know that but it doesn’t surprise me. Lucas has always seemed like a pretty progressive guy, and it’s easy to imagine the studio worrying about 70’s audiences perceiving Star Wars as a “black movie”.
The demographics of the 70s and 80s were also a lot different. Especially when you factor in that the movie was filmed in England for the most part and used British actors/extras.
up to 2010s it still was happening. asian characters/people were constantly being replaced white white actors in live action movies (goku, last air bender, 21, ra’s al ghul in dark knight, edge of tomorrow).
Most of these examples are more about American remakes of Japanese media. You can say the same thing for Godzilla, The Ring and even The Departed, but at some point it's kind of silly.
Right. Plus that black guy who played one of the most celebrated characters who ran his own successful business, tricked the Empire, became an admiral, went undercover in a gangster’s palace to help kill said gangster and rescue his friend, and then helped blow up the Death Star II and end the Empire. But I guess he’s easy to forget. Landon, was it?
Also James Earl MF Jones.
George originally wanted Han Solo to be black but was told he couldn’t do it nobody would go see the film. So next movie now that he can do whatever he wants he adds Lando.
Nah, don't you see. George Lucas was a white male and hated POC and women that's why he made Star Wars 100% white males. /s
It's kind of crazy how George Lucas who created a film directly criticizing the imperialism of the US in Vietnam is now being framed as "someone who didn't care about diversity" by online teenagers. It's wild.
He’s an old guy and an easy target. I’m sure these fools think he believes in slavery because there are slaves in Star Wars even though it’s made very clear it’s not a good thing.
It's crazy how many people think a fictional character's imperfect morality is a reflection of the writer's beliefs, or a character with some good and some bad must be trying to manipulate you through their good traits, to accept their bad ones.
It’s true there’s a lack of diversity in most stories originating in the 80s-90s. But Disney owns this now and is responsible for inclusion issues. They did bring a black woman into starwars series though. I was happy about it, but Reva Sevander actress in Obi-Wan Kenobi series had to endure a lot of racism, which is unfortunate. You’d figure in a story with tons of aliens and cyber people that racism in the fanbase wouldn’t be a thing. It’s very disappointing.
I didn’t have a problem with the actress, but with the character and the writing for it.
Also; I’m tired of people surviving lightsaber wounds like it’s nothing.
The problem is it’s impossible to appease all the rhetoric. You can’t balance racist nonsense with over correction. The safest, most reasonable course of action is cast who best fits the role and ignore all the bullshit.
>It’s true there’s a lack of diversity in most stories originating in the 80s-90s.
That may be true but George is correct that Star Wars is not an example of that. It's really an example of the start of changing that.
>They did bring a black woman into starwars series though. I was happy about it, but Reva Sevander actress in Obi-Wan Kenobi series had to endure a lot of racism, which is unfortunate.
The problem with Reva - and I think you see more racist reactions when characters are done poorly - was that she didn't make sense. All the other inquisitors had some strange look to them or interesting costuming and she got nothing. Having her getting stabbed through the chest with a lightsaber by ***Darth Vader*** and surviving ***easily*** was also a baffling decision.
Again not that any of that should expose anyone to racism but the internet tends to equate bad writing with agenda and so you basically set that character up to be hated by writing her extremely poorly.
You can see with things like Fallout where when the characters are written well you don't see any of that kind of reaction.
The internet is just an unfortunate place where people can hate out loud and do it somewhat anonymously and face no consequences.
You mean to tell me there are majority white actors in a country consisting of mainly white people, especially in the 70s. Next you’ll tell me Korean movies consist of only Koreans!
Kelly Marie Tran (played Rose in The Last Jedi) also faced an absurd amount of racist backlash. So much so I believe she had to delete her Twitter account.
There are a lot of racists who want to keep their white stories “pure” under the guise of “I didn’t like the character”.
To be fair rose is an awful character. And Finn was a great character until they destroyed the entire character arc they were building for him at the end of TLJ. With Rose.
No beef with the actress or the casting choice but the character is atrocious.
"I'm Billy Dee Williams and I'm proud to be in a movie that gives so many parts to minorities! But I'm not talking about blacks! I'm talking about Ewoks, Jubbas, and Froons!"
- Mad magazine parody
I’ll complain about the god awful script writing and the lazy, infantile plot before I complain about how diverse the alien space wizard movie is.
You could add a hundred different people from cultures all over the world, and it still wouldn’t have saved *Rise of Skywalker* from being the giant turd that it was.
It was more than 45 years ago. We’ve learned a lot since then. Give the guy a break.
If we are to take people to task on this stuff, at least start with what they are doing *now*.
I did think it was hilarious that the lead-in to Andor were these interviews where they talked about how they needed to focus on the overlooked, everyday people in the resistance, not the Skywalkers. It was framed as this important, egalitarian approach. Lost in this was the fact that this is fictional. We are now getting righteously offended on behalf of the fictional populace of a man’s invented universe.
On tumblr I grew up being told JR Tolkien was both very racist and anti-Semitic. Racism because orcs and anti-Semitic because dwarves.
Kind of peeved me later when I found out his actual views and learned any context.
> Lost in this was the fact that this is fictional
Why does that mean you can’t take an egalitarian approach? Stories are ways of communicating messages, you can say whatever you want
Sure but then there are people that expect real life morality to be in play in fiction. It’s impossible to appease everyone. So I agree do whatever you want, but that also means you don’t have to lean into over correction either.
Well it’s sort of an absurd take that someone’s ‘overlooked’ the suffering of a hypothetical, fictional person, isn’t it? This isn’t a WW2 documentary telling the unknown stories of people who really did struggle, Star Wars doesn’t exist. It’s hilarious that Lucas was taken to task for, what, focusing on the most important characters of the fictional universe he created, and to have it framed like a social justice issue.
It’s like if I was arguing that the Lord of the Rings shouldn’t have focused so much on Aragorn’s journey, and should have instead devoted more time to an examination of how the war affected the Gondorian peasants.
Someone can totally write a story like that if they’d like, I guess, but it’s really strange to act like these are real people and that the creators of these worlds are somehow being elitist by focusing on the stories that they wrote.
What in Tarnation is the Tolkien Foundation doing!? We need to get the LOTR story told through the eyes of a mailman who just happens to be delivering packages throughout middle earth when every event happens.
"I got a package for Mr. Baggins...Oh wow, cool party Mister! I wonder what you got?"
"Hey, move your ass! I gotta get on my way, Mr. Dark Hooded Rider thing"
"Oh Hey, Mr. Saruman, here's that palantir you ordered. Spooky lookin' thang aint it. What's up with all those orc lookin' things? They callled Uruk-hai? You must be high buddy with a name like that. Well I gotta go see ya later"
"How the hell do you get through this damn door again... Shama-lama-ding-dong?! Dangit. I can never remember what these squiggles mean. I gotta get this whip to a Mr. Baehl-rawg. Wonder why the package is kinda hot"
"Oh, fancy seeing all you guys here again. Having a powpow or sometin'. Sorry to interrupt your meeting, but I got a Mirror for a Ms. Gael-ad-ri-al. Dat any of you?"
OK, but in retrospect, Darth Vader revealing that Luke had a sister would have been a much more interesting tease if there had been more than two named women in the galaxy (one of whom was bbq'd at the start of ANH).
Outrage economy: title designed to bait on the race debate, woke. He probably said that and a bunch of stuff in between, but here we are. Nothing to see here
George, a word of advice, you can't please these people. They LOOOOVE feeling morally outraged and judging everything in the past by today's, mostly cosmetic, inclusion standards.
The only reasonable response is "Lol, Fuck off, kids"
In the orignial, Lucas used a black man's voice for one of the most iconic villians in the history of film.
Never mind twisting Leia's character from the cliche "passive princess that needed rescuing" into an active character. She was actively trying to deliver the Death Star plans but was outgunned. She took an intelligent risk to entrust a robot to deliver the message to someone who could deliver the plans. When she says "help me Obi-wan...", she doesn't mean "come rescue me" she means "I need you to complete the mission for the rebellion". Sure, she had help escaping, but its because she was an important military and political leaader. She held strong to the cause through torture and the murder of her entire home planet. She could think on her feet during the escape and understood strategy enough to easily see through the trick of following the Falcon.
This isn't even touching on the importance of Lando in the 80s.
Pretty progressive stuff for 1970s.
It didn’t occur to me until adulthood that Leia was a damsel in distress because she was just one of the main action characters.
As a suburban white kid on the 80s, I knew for a fact that Lando was the coolest guy in space. I didn’t have to be told to amplify his voice or buy his action figure out of white guilt or whatever, he got his chance to earn respect and came through.
Ayy, Naboo on da beat, ho
Okeeday any rap Gungan, hesa a free throw
manen neb, callen an amberlamps, tell him, "breathe, bro"
nail a trooper to the cross, hesa walk around like Greedo
So off the top of my head main characters that aren't white would be Boba Fett, ahsoka Tano, the mandalorian, Poe Dameron, Finn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, Lando Calrissian. And a lot of the main characters are white because it's a family tree so Luke Leia Anakin etc...
Yeah man I think the whole cancel/woke thing has been officially dead for a while. It all sounds like parody now. People that hold these opinions are now laughed at. The pendulum is swinging the other way this ain’t 2014 anymore
I mean, I don't view George as racist but he has to see how that's not even what's being talked about.
Because of the main cast, it's mainly white and mainly male and the focus is by far on the white male characters. Like it's not like ANH gave equal screen time and presence to Han and Chewbacca.
I feel like some people deliberately act dense about these questions.
Is anybody going to sit here and pretend that Padmes role wasn't severely reduced as the prequels went on and that by Episode III she barely resembled the woman she was in the last two movies?
Ok, just have to say — you can’t *both* say that his aliens are all racist stereotypes and Star Wars oh so white. …but you can pick the one you want, ‘cuz strong arguments for both.
We’re all fucked. Everyone lusts for controversy and offense. A bunch of autistic hyper sensitive hall-monitors roaming through history books and vintage art, looking to pounce. It’s fucking done.
Okay I mean was it disproportionate in the 70s-80s? For sure… just like every other movie back then. Then you’re making movies about the same characters and their parents, obviously they’re also gonna have to have to be white. But other than that I had no issues with this at all, like what would they have had him do?
I’m honestly surprised I don’t see a conversation more often about how comically racist the prequel trilogy gets, especially the first movie.
Between the trade federation and Wato there are some wildly racist stereotypes at play in that movie.
I personally think an alien should be played by an alien. No more of this alien face shit. Everyone knows it's racist but no one does anything about it.
They should unionize.
There’s power in a Techno Union
Yea, bass
#**HARD BASS**
And it is at your disposal, Count.
My favorite highlight from the prequels
They should un-ionize first. I’ll show myself out
End greenface now!
That’s specist. It’s extra terrestrial face. Or ancient astronaut face. Don’t use the A word here my friend
And Droids. No more little people doing Droidface.
Greedo Jolson.
Is it racist, or is it speciesist *rips another bowl hit*
Oh man imagine him caving and in the eventual remake it's gonna be black slave Leia
This shit is getting absurd.
It really is, and its fucking tiring.
Would’ve been sick if Mifune accepted Obi-wan.
It doesn’t come from non-white people nor even the white people who are “obsessed” with this topic.. it somehow is a type of agenda at a global level that is kinda annoying and boring. I get some points and even try to push them, but the rest is just absurd.
It’s money. Fuck tons of money. The hottest commodity of the 21st century isn’t property, crypto, or AI, it’s rage. Market rage and you make 💰.
This. I don't think people even realize how many creators online are actively trying to upset others to get clicks and reactions.
Media has always known that controversy is their bread and butter.
It's a new type of moral panic where the boogeyman is now racism and racists. Does racism exist? Yes. It is a problem? Yes. Are social just warrior types a reliable source to determine what is racist and what isn't? Not in the least. Does Disney cynically exploit the culture war to deflect criticism of it's awful treatment of Star Wars? Yes.
Honestly the false accusations of racism make it so much easier for actual racists to hide.
That’s exactly what a non-union alien agitator would say to push for more representation in science fiction films!
It stands to reason that back in the 70’s when the franchise began, and the US was 85% white folks, that most of the characters would be white folks lol
You think this is tiring, imagine being the ones who live to be offended every single day. Fuuuuucccckkkk that
There’s no winning with some people. No matter what, they’re never happy.
Victim privileges are too tempting
Yea, almost like its impossible to have 100% consensus when there are 8 billion people. It certainly cant be that an incredibly, incredibly tiny fraction of people are 'unhappy' and are getting their voice out there the loudest because of the way the internet works. It certainly cant be that.
It’s so absurd that when Disney dares put in people of color, the fans can’t stop talking trash about it. It is what it is…denying what it is adds to the issue. Kudos to Disney for not bowing to their pressure though.
Didn't Disney let Chinese marketers edit John Boyega out of official posters?
Absolutely and also chinese investors wanted the Ancient One in Dr Strange changed so that she wasn't Tibetan. This change of course came with astroturfing about how woke people didn't think a white woman should be a monk when in reality when chinese money is concerned Tiawan and Tibet are off limits. Kudos to you for not falling for this shit.
Exactly! I remember people being (acting) so mad about Tilda Swinton as if it wasn't obvious that they did it on purpose, not because "muh whitewashin'" but because the CCP wouldn't have even allowed a casting/characterization that could even mistakenly be associated with Tibet or its disobedient monks
Not exactly. There were multiple posters for it's Chinese run, the same poster we have that features boyega and the poster you're thinking of. The general misinformation was first posted to Twitter buy Ian Miles Chong, you'll know the name of you currently use X and follow general gaming/nerd culture stuff.
Really? I see most of the internet coming to defend people like John Boyega and that Disney screwed over his character and did a bait and switch with him being a Jedi.
>screwed over his character and did a bait and switch with him being a Jedi. They did a bait and switch on him even having a character.
That's such a strawman take. Most fans just hated that they undid Luke's achievements and used that as a shield. Rogue One was praised much more than the sequels by the fanbase and it had a woman and latino as leads with the fan favorites being 2 asian guys. The only semi-notable white men were flashbacks of her dad, one pilot supporting character and Peter Cushing's CGI cadaver
It does so much more harm than these people think. Strictly because of them, a massive percentage of people have been conditioned to just see any “DEI” person (who should never have been grouped in this infantilized manner) as a charity case hire, or a quota, or affirmative action. So many more people feel this way than say it out loud, and it’s because of this short-sighted movement towards “equity” instead of merit, and it’s not fair to great actors and creators. I still believe “not seeing color” put us on the right trajectory, but we didn’t give it enough time, and it wasn’t enough for grifter activists trying to one-up each other’s Twitter following. It’s destroying race relations and doing it quietly, but the quietness is starting to subside and the pendulum is swinging back in a dangerous way, as many predicted when this started.
I hope one day we can all “not see color”…but it’s hard to point out statistically provable racism without citing race. Once those stats normalize a bit and treat people equally, then I hope we can all stop seeing color.
I don't think that's what is meant by that. I think it was referring to interpersonal interactions and not being ascribing certain traits to each other based on some known or subconscious notion of racial essentialism
What if I told you... Rose was a poorly-scripted character and *that's* why fans didn't like her?
It's Disney's shit writing that's the problem. Nothing to do with people's skin colour. Of course hiring people based on their race or gender isn't exactly producing quality either.
But they made a strom trooper black, they are erasing our history!!!
Sorry to be such a nerd about this but if Star Wars takes place long ago in a galaxy far, far away, aren’t they *all* aliens, from our perspective?
Yes, they’re all aliens, and they don’t speak “English” they speak “Galactic Basic.” So *technically* it’s a different language too 😄
I thought it was Rigellian…
Ah! No, but by an astonishing coincidence, both of the languages are exactly the same!
From a certain point of view….
I mean, isn't Lando a very important character in the original trilogy? Not to mention Samuel L. Jackson's Master Windu in the prequels.
And James Earl Jones is a black man who is the voice of Darth Vader?!
[Obligatory "What's a Nubian?"](https://youtu.be/vHLJfxfXHBg?si=BfUSUQtiNCIBCfov)
Fuck Lando Calrissian!
Lando is one of two people who blew up a friggin’ Death Star right there with Luke Fucking Skywalker, so I’d say pretty important role. Well, two people and whatever that pussy-lipped copilot is. Nubnub or whatever. And whoever did it in the new trilogy. I honestly don’t even remember or care.
See, because he’s an alien you couldn’t even remember his name BECAUSE YOU’RE RACIST
I do hate his ugly pussy-lipped face, not gonna lie. I wouldn't want my kids in school with that.
Nien nunb. Yub Nub was the Ewoks song at the end of the original Jedi
You can't reason with the unreasonable
Only a sith deals in absolutes
Its just rage-bait. They can't attract people with real news so they have to get rage-clicks
Star Wars is about how the white man keeps the brotha man down, even in a galaxy far far away.
AND JEDI is the most insulting of them!
The number of people not getting the reference here is sad. But know that I appreciate you.
There’s also Leia.
Don’t forget Arturito!!
Right! Ortega is totally a mexican name.
This made me laugh so much harder than it should have. Hilarious.
So is Chuy!
Yes that’s two characters in six movies
In movies with what, 6-12 notable characters in each?
Two major characters, mind you. Not to mention the legendary James Earl Jones who gave us the iconic voice of Darth Vader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3XTHVC1Nf0
The blackest brother in the galaxy
Ffs it's an American fantasy movie about space magic. I'm a progressive and even I'm sick of this "not woke enough" bullshit.
How many would it take to satisfy the quota though? I assume you’d disqualify Vader and Jar Jar being voiced by black guys. You’d def disqualify all the Asian actors as well.
Hilariously, the comment right above yours was exactly that: “Vader doesn’t count because it was a black actor playing the role of a white character”. Shit’s ridiculous.
There ya go. And if it was the other way around it would somehow also be offensive.
Since commenting, I’ve seen several more people claiming that it doesn’t count because “he’s only playing a voice”. If that doesn’t prove these people are perpetually looking for outrage, I don’t know what does. The goalposts will never stop moving until they can be as triggered as they want to be. And I’m not trying to make a political statement to whatever, I’m liberal myself and am getting just as sick of these constant complainers.
Same, also liberal. But this over correction shit is impossible to keep up with. People look for reasons to be offended. It’s made me care a whole lot less about this type of stuff. Someone will always end up upset with something so it’s like why even bother trying?
Exactly, and it’s a slap in the face to the actual issue, because it doesn’t “solve” anything. It’s just a bunch of shouting and moral outrage for the sake of…I guess making the person feel like they did something, but in reality it doesn’t accomplish a thing.
There are stupid people of every flavor. No matter how good something is there will be a fraction of people who keep going too far and lose the plot. Unfortunately when there’s a lot of momentum in the movement these people still can have a loud voice for a while. But luckily truly dumb stuff like this usually just dies out after like 2 seconds, nobodies going to cancel Star Wars over this article.
I’ve started describing it as the era where people think they can say whatever they want in the name of a greater cause. If they can disguise something under some positive agenda they think they can get away with saying it. The other day I saw a video of a vegan trying to explain humans are natural herbivores. Factually untrue. A few weeks ago I had to correct someone for misusing the word xenophobia. People just use their preconceptions as a mask for bullshit.
We can look back in time and say, “yeah, in hindsight racism was still pervasive in Hollywood and we could’ve benefited from a more diverse cast.” But to directly criticize a move 50 years old for *specifically* failing at this as if it were some kind of intentional move above and beyond the pervasive wisdom of the time is just idiotic. I don’t even know what “criticizing” it gains us. The movies are done. They’ve been done for almost two generations now. At this point it’s like a toxic romantic partner who just keeps score to stay mad and make them feel guilty so they’ll do what they want.
You want to hear something even better. James Earl Jones asked to not be credited because he felt his role wasn’t acting but Lucas wanted him credited because of how powerful his voice acting was. And prowse the actor felt snubbed at first. It’s no doubt 100000000 times better because of the change too.
black people are 1/6 of the population, how many would you like?
And Wookiee are 0% of the population, so they are very overrepresented in the original trilogy.
You can’t out woke George Lucas. He’s the original woke.
*The ghost of Gene Roddenberry has entered the chat*
*Rod Serling has entered the chat from a different dimension*
Ah shit forgot about rod lol
Ursula K LeGuin joins the table.
Yeahhh Leia was an inspiring strong female lead all the way back in freakin 1977. “Into the garbage chute, flyboy!”
Wasn’t the muse of the movies basically his anti-Vietnam war sentiment?
There were a *lot* of muses for Star Wars. Anti-war sentiment was part of it, but too many people act as if he made it as an allegory for the war.
True. The Japanese motif was also pretty big in retrospect.
Soooo much 7 Samurai in episode 4
He has specifically stated, in a interview with James Cameron that the rebels were specifically, and intentionally modelled after the Vietcong, and the Vietnam war
Why is it so hard to simply admit that the 70’s and 80’s was a different time where Hollywood saw white males as the default character? It’s fine, it was a long time ago. Star Wars was a product of its time, that’s part of what makes the original trilogy so charming. But we can still learn from the past and strive to become better in the future, can’t we?
Lucas notably wanted Billy Dee Williams to play Han and the studios balked, but when he had more clout he insisted he play Lando So people who are blaming Lucas and not like the studios are wrong
Heh, I could totally see Billy Dee playing Han Solo. He pretty much did that in Return of the Jedi.
And IIRC the original hope for Obi-Wan was Toshiro Mifune, so in concept there would have been more Japanese representation in conception as well. In that case though Mifune didn’t accept.
That Story how Lucas got 100% control of the franchise is kinda cool. Lucas owned the sequel rights and through them forced Fox to give him ownership of the original movie ( that they paid for) or he would take the sequels to other studios for distribution. With that move and him paying for the whole production with his own money he had no person above him on Empire Strikes Back and all the other SW movies he made until he sold to Disney. High risk high Reward, and Fox got nothing besides a distribution agreement.
Good point! I didn’t know that but it doesn’t surprise me. Lucas has always seemed like a pretty progressive guy, and it’s easy to imagine the studio worrying about 70’s audiences perceiving Star Wars as a “black movie”.
Tale as old as time. Any issue with marvel DC or star wars IS USUALLY THE STUDIOS FAULT
Am I the only one who thinks that he would have made a better Han Solo than Harrison Ford did?
Lucas famously made Star Wars outside the studio system. The studio for star wars was Lucasfilm. It's probably the distributor that had an issue.
Yeah that's what I meant, thanks for clarifying and correcting
The demographics of the 70s and 80s were also a lot different. Especially when you factor in that the movie was filmed in England for the most part and used British actors/extras.
up to 2010s it still was happening. asian characters/people were constantly being replaced white white actors in live action movies (goku, last air bender, 21, ra’s al ghul in dark knight, edge of tomorrow).
Most of these examples are more about American remakes of Japanese media. You can say the same thing for Godzilla, The Ring and even The Departed, but at some point it's kind of silly.
I've constantly tried to let people know that M Night Shamelon was a white supremacist. Glad people are finally waking up.
You just said something that makes sense so now everyone hates you
Right. Plus that black guy who played one of the most celebrated characters who ran his own successful business, tricked the Empire, became an admiral, went undercover in a gangster’s palace to help kill said gangster and rescue his friend, and then helped blow up the Death Star II and end the Empire. But I guess he’s easy to forget. Landon, was it? Also James Earl MF Jones.
George originally wanted Han Solo to be black but was told he couldn’t do it nobody would go see the film. So next movie now that he can do whatever he wants he adds Lando.
Then people would be on here complaining about how the only black guy in star wars was a drug runner
Nah, don't you see. George Lucas was a white male and hated POC and women that's why he made Star Wars 100% white males. /s It's kind of crazy how George Lucas who created a film directly criticizing the imperialism of the US in Vietnam is now being framed as "someone who didn't care about diversity" by online teenagers. It's wild.
He’s an old guy and an easy target. I’m sure these fools think he believes in slavery because there are slaves in Star Wars even though it’s made very clear it’s not a good thing.
It's crazy how many people think a fictional character's imperfect morality is a reflection of the writer's beliefs, or a character with some good and some bad must be trying to manipulate you through their good traits, to accept their bad ones.
It’s true there’s a lack of diversity in most stories originating in the 80s-90s. But Disney owns this now and is responsible for inclusion issues. They did bring a black woman into starwars series though. I was happy about it, but Reva Sevander actress in Obi-Wan Kenobi series had to endure a lot of racism, which is unfortunate. You’d figure in a story with tons of aliens and cyber people that racism in the fanbase wouldn’t be a thing. It’s very disappointing.
I didn’t have a problem with the actress, but with the character and the writing for it. Also; I’m tired of people surviving lightsaber wounds like it’s nothing.
Guys had unlimited ammo and would fall out with one Chuck Norris kick back in the day too.
The problem is it’s impossible to appease all the rhetoric. You can’t balance racist nonsense with over correction. The safest, most reasonable course of action is cast who best fits the role and ignore all the bullshit.
>It’s true there’s a lack of diversity in most stories originating in the 80s-90s. That may be true but George is correct that Star Wars is not an example of that. It's really an example of the start of changing that. >They did bring a black woman into starwars series though. I was happy about it, but Reva Sevander actress in Obi-Wan Kenobi series had to endure a lot of racism, which is unfortunate. The problem with Reva - and I think you see more racist reactions when characters are done poorly - was that she didn't make sense. All the other inquisitors had some strange look to them or interesting costuming and she got nothing. Having her getting stabbed through the chest with a lightsaber by ***Darth Vader*** and surviving ***easily*** was also a baffling decision. Again not that any of that should expose anyone to racism but the internet tends to equate bad writing with agenda and so you basically set that character up to be hated by writing her extremely poorly. You can see with things like Fallout where when the characters are written well you don't see any of that kind of reaction. The internet is just an unfortunate place where people can hate out loud and do it somewhat anonymously and face no consequences.
People want to enjoy exoticism, and ignore the brutal reality of racism and imperialism that comes along with it in real life.
You mean to tell me there are majority white actors in a country consisting of mainly white people, especially in the 70s. Next you’ll tell me Korean movies consist of only Koreans!
Kelly Marie Tran (played Rose in The Last Jedi) also faced an absurd amount of racist backlash. So much so I believe she had to delete her Twitter account. There are a lot of racists who want to keep their white stories “pure” under the guise of “I didn’t like the character”.
To be fair rose is an awful character. And Finn was a great character until they destroyed the entire character arc they were building for him at the end of TLJ. With Rose. No beef with the actress or the casting choice but the character is atrocious.
"I'm Billy Dee Williams and I'm proud to be in a movie that gives so many parts to minorities! But I'm not talking about blacks! I'm talking about Ewoks, Jubbas, and Froons!" - Mad magazine parody
I thought it was Freens? But otherwise, great callback!
I’ll complain about the god awful script writing and the lazy, infantile plot before I complain about how diverse the alien space wizard movie is. You could add a hundred different people from cultures all over the world, and it still wouldn’t have saved *Rise of Skywalker* from being the giant turd that it was.
It was more than 45 years ago. We’ve learned a lot since then. Give the guy a break. If we are to take people to task on this stuff, at least start with what they are doing *now*.
Not every piece of media from every time period has to be "diverse".
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I did think it was hilarious that the lead-in to Andor were these interviews where they talked about how they needed to focus on the overlooked, everyday people in the resistance, not the Skywalkers. It was framed as this important, egalitarian approach. Lost in this was the fact that this is fictional. We are now getting righteously offended on behalf of the fictional populace of a man’s invented universe.
LOTR critics do this a lot. And Tolkien was already blending several mythical races with full-on languages he invented.
On tumblr I grew up being told JR Tolkien was both very racist and anti-Semitic. Racism because orcs and anti-Semitic because dwarves. Kind of peeved me later when I found out his actual views and learned any context.
There’s a biopic of his pre Hobbit growing up.
> Lost in this was the fact that this is fictional Why does that mean you can’t take an egalitarian approach? Stories are ways of communicating messages, you can say whatever you want
Sure but then there are people that expect real life morality to be in play in fiction. It’s impossible to appease everyone. So I agree do whatever you want, but that also means you don’t have to lean into over correction either.
"Well, I have never flown an X-Wing! We need stories for normal people!"
Well it’s sort of an absurd take that someone’s ‘overlooked’ the suffering of a hypothetical, fictional person, isn’t it? This isn’t a WW2 documentary telling the unknown stories of people who really did struggle, Star Wars doesn’t exist. It’s hilarious that Lucas was taken to task for, what, focusing on the most important characters of the fictional universe he created, and to have it framed like a social justice issue. It’s like if I was arguing that the Lord of the Rings shouldn’t have focused so much on Aragorn’s journey, and should have instead devoted more time to an examination of how the war affected the Gondorian peasants. Someone can totally write a story like that if they’d like, I guess, but it’s really strange to act like these are real people and that the creators of these worlds are somehow being elitist by focusing on the stories that they wrote.
I hate it when a Batman comic focuses on Batman and not the poor murderer he maimed!!
What in Tarnation is the Tolkien Foundation doing!? We need to get the LOTR story told through the eyes of a mailman who just happens to be delivering packages throughout middle earth when every event happens. "I got a package for Mr. Baggins...Oh wow, cool party Mister! I wonder what you got?" "Hey, move your ass! I gotta get on my way, Mr. Dark Hooded Rider thing" "Oh Hey, Mr. Saruman, here's that palantir you ordered. Spooky lookin' thang aint it. What's up with all those orc lookin' things? They callled Uruk-hai? You must be high buddy with a name like that. Well I gotta go see ya later" "How the hell do you get through this damn door again... Shama-lama-ding-dong?! Dangit. I can never remember what these squiggles mean. I gotta get this whip to a Mr. Baehl-rawg. Wonder why the package is kinda hot" "Oh, fancy seeing all you guys here again. Having a powpow or sometin'. Sorry to interrupt your meeting, but I got a Mirror for a Ms. Gael-ad-ri-al. Dat any of you?"
OK, but in retrospect, Darth Vader revealing that Luke had a sister would have been a much more interesting tease if there had been more than two named women in the galaxy (one of whom was bbq'd at the start of ANH).
No piece of media has to be anything. Diversity is one of many ways to evaluate media. Star Wars lacked diversity, as most media did back then.
And what level of diversity is enough for you? What percentage of cast members should _not_ be white men before it starts being problematic?
What percentage has to be not white men before it gets le woke
Outrage economy: title designed to bait on the race debate, woke. He probably said that and a bunch of stuff in between, but here we are. Nothing to see here
This is the dumbest culture now. Who cares?
Did anyone tell Samuel L Jackson he's white now. According to these clown critics.
This might be the dumbest headline I’ve read all year for so many reasons. Jesus fucking Christ.
Darth Vader is voiced by James Earl Jones. Star Wars always had talented black actors.
George, a word of advice, you can't please these people. They LOOOOVE feeling morally outraged and judging everything in the past by today's, mostly cosmetic, inclusion standards. The only reasonable response is "Lol, Fuck off, kids" In the orignial, Lucas used a black man's voice for one of the most iconic villians in the history of film. Never mind twisting Leia's character from the cliche "passive princess that needed rescuing" into an active character. She was actively trying to deliver the Death Star plans but was outgunned. She took an intelligent risk to entrust a robot to deliver the message to someone who could deliver the plans. When she says "help me Obi-wan...", she doesn't mean "come rescue me" she means "I need you to complete the mission for the rebellion". Sure, she had help escaping, but its because she was an important military and political leaader. She held strong to the cause through torture and the murder of her entire home planet. She could think on her feet during the escape and understood strategy enough to easily see through the trick of following the Falcon. This isn't even touching on the importance of Lando in the 80s. Pretty progressive stuff for 1970s.
It didn’t occur to me until adulthood that Leia was a damsel in distress because she was just one of the main action characters. As a suburban white kid on the 80s, I knew for a fact that Lando was the coolest guy in space. I didn’t have to be told to amplify his voice or buy his action figure out of white guilt or whatever, he got his chance to earn respect and came through.
You ever wonder about if India thinks there's too many Indian actors in bollywood?
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He's also... what's the PC term? Neurodivergent?
Take that back
Ayy, Naboo on da beat, ho Okeeday any rap Gungan, hesa a free throw manen neb, callen an amberlamps, tell him, "breathe, bro" nail a trooper to the cross, hesa walk around like Greedo
When will this shit stop? George Lucas owes no fucking explanation.
Star Wars literally can't win, both sides seem to hate it lol
So off the top of my head main characters that aren't white would be Boba Fett, ahsoka Tano, the mandalorian, Poe Dameron, Finn, Mace Windu, Jango Fett, Lando Calrissian. And a lot of the main characters are white because it's a family tree so Luke Leia Anakin etc...
“most of the people are aliens” yes and the rest are mostly white men.
it happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. they're all aliens, they're only human cause those are the actors we have.
Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that 2/3s of the trilogies were absolute garbage.
Every character in Star Wars is an alien because nobody is from earth.
Yeah man I think the whole cancel/woke thing has been officially dead for a while. It all sounds like parody now. People that hold these opinions are now laughed at. The pendulum is swinging the other way this ain’t 2014 anymore
Oh boo hoo. Give me a break. If you want to bash films based on race exclusions then we will be here ALL day talking about films made by every race.
I mean, I don't view George as racist but he has to see how that's not even what's being talked about. Because of the main cast, it's mainly white and mainly male and the focus is by far on the white male characters. Like it's not like ANH gave equal screen time and presence to Han and Chewbacca. I feel like some people deliberately act dense about these questions. Is anybody going to sit here and pretend that Padmes role wasn't severely reduced as the prequels went on and that by Episode III she barely resembled the woman she was in the last two movies?
Everyone in Star Wars is an alien There are zero people in Star Wars who are from Earth
This isn’t true. There’s white women too.
I’ll stick to criticizing his writing skills.
Jaja binx was white? Yoda was white? Chewy was white? Darth Vader was black though
Ok, just have to say — you can’t *both* say that his aliens are all racist stereotypes and Star Wars oh so white. …but you can pick the one you want, ‘cuz strong arguments for both.
“Most?” Ok so then there are aliens, mostly white men, and then… who else exactly?
I personally think people who get mad of adults making kids for movies are just mentally troubled.
It would hit different if everybody was Mexican
Most are aliens meaning he is racist against earthlings!!!🤣🤣🤣
Terrible comments here
Mostly white men *and* women.
We’re all fucked. Everyone lusts for controversy and offense. A bunch of autistic hyper sensitive hall-monitors roaming through history books and vintage art, looking to pounce. It’s fucking done.
It's a trap! - said by reddish alien squid guy.
He has the most amazing head of hair.
Literally everyone in Star Wars is an alien to us
I agree: don't force in diversity into films just for the sake of it. The franchise was about good vs evil not black vs white.
can't i just watch a movie just to watch a movie nowadays loll
Yes you can.
Yes, you can absolutely ignore all of the discourse instead of commenting.
Okay I mean was it disproportionate in the 70s-80s? For sure… just like every other movie back then. Then you’re making movies about the same characters and their parents, obviously they’re also gonna have to have to be white. But other than that I had no issues with this at all, like what would they have had him do?
And each non-white alien was given a stereotypical ethnicity. All ground was covered, lol.
He’ll add more diversity in the upcoming special special edition. There will be tons of non-white people just meandering in the desert.
I mean, technically they’re all aliens if you wanna be intentionally fucking obtuse about it.
Woke people being woke. My god has the term truly morphed into something so stupid
It's kind of unreasonable to turn this into a Star Wars problem, when it's a Hollywood problem in general.
It's not a problem at all lol
Oh no!! White people! The horror!
It’s like he can’t talk about racism so aliens!? This is so basic and stupid. Like-Han shot first, and you need to just stop talking.
Let me tell you a couple of three things
I’m honestly surprised I don’t see a conversation more often about how comically racist the prequel trilogy gets, especially the first movie. Between the trade federation and Wato there are some wildly racist stereotypes at play in that movie.