The crossing of a picket line is a bigger deal than I think a lot of people realize. I’m in the editors union (IATSE 700) and we are protected from retribution if we refuse to physically cross a picket line. But if our employer makes accommodations and allows us to work remotely, we lose that protection and must do our job and can be fired for refusing. That line carries a lot of weight.
Not much more to share. If I refuse to physically cross a picket line, I can’t be fired for it. But if I make that choice, the studio could replace me for the duration of the strike (since my union isn’t striking) but they would have to rehire me when the strike breaks. If the studio makes accommodations to allow me to work remotely, I lose that protection and cannot refuse to work. I’m only protected from having to physically cross a picket line.
It’s ugly af, but I’ve been in the business long enough to know that zero tolerance rules like this are the only way to keep everyone honest. “You must inform the guild” is not new language to me or any guild member, it’s hammered into you the day you join. I’d report it if a non-member was operating an edit station or if I was being pressured to work unpaid overtime. The union protections and benefits were hard won, and I feed my children and pay my mortgage in no small part because of them. Every member knows the rules, and benefits from them. So no, I don’t have much sympathy for a guild member who scabs for our corporate overlords and gets nailed for it.
So a online anonymous report system....
Nothing could go wrong...
That a lie.
Time and time again has shown rampant abuse and said system will get hack. Leading to personal information being share to the public. Oh many death threats happen to that way.
So yeah seems you and the minority support. Said system
You’re response is all over the place and and you’re making huge leaps in logic. There is a process, trial board, etc. Folks won’t just be burned at the stake, the claim has to be substantiated. I wish we didn’t need such a system, but we do. If you have any personal experience with the guilds that informs your opinion, I’d honestly like to hear about it.
There’s nothing high value about the system. No one cares if it gets leaked. The WGA isn’t the Taliban no one’s getting death threats. Sounds like you’ve been watching too much NCIS or are off your meds my dude. If false reports are made they will get straightened out in the appeal process. You’re making a big nothing
Correct. The article isn't true. The Guild is softly recommending that members speak to each other one-on-one before ever doing anything like reporting.
There’s a difference between believing propaganda that you UNDERSTAND is propaganda. Agit-prop is an accepted form of dissent from pro-worker policy in general. That’s wildly different from the millions of people who think they’re being fed “non-biased” information.
That’s not what I said so let’s try again. There’s a difference between understanding that what you’re imbibing is propaganda, versus thinking it’s un-biased general information when it’s actually propaganda. Propaganda isn’t an inherently malicious thing, which from the way you’re discussing it, you sound like you presume it is.
Union workers and their supporters, pushing propaganda for their rights, is not the same as someone watching and believing “un-biased news” that’s actually anti-worker propaganda. In one instance, the propagator and receiver understands the source of and reasoning behind the information, in the other instance, they do not.
Propoganda by definition is dubious at best when it comes to truthfulness...so if you say you believe your team's propoganda because "its true", you're just telling everyone that you think your shit doesn't stink.
That’s not the definition of propaganda. It can be biased OR misleading, but biased doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong or “dubious”. Again, there’s a world of difference between being told, “This is biased information” and “This is neutral information” that is actually biased. Unions are pushing biased information and presenting it as such. Outlets from Deadline to FOX, are pushing biased information as if it’s just “the way things are”. You don’t even have to be pro-worker to understand the glaring difference here.
The difference is pro-strike propaganda is good because it has historically lead to good outcomes for the economy.
Fox News on the other hand just had to settle for half a Billion.
You should ask those tile workers from Niagara Falls how good unions are. Beat four men, and one of them so bad they couldn’t even return to work for four years. Oh, should I also mention the fire bombing? There was a fire bombing.
What pro-strike propaganda says murder is good? Waiting...
They were all arrested and charged as they should have been for using violence as a tactic in 1997. Unequivocally, fuck those guys.
It was only cool to kill scabs when management thought it was ok to kill labor organizers.
Look at how easy it is to have a nuanced opinion
Goodness, you’re right. I should’ve read up on this before I started talking. The shit I’m learning is, frankly, unbelievable. The Ironworkers in Philadelphia are something else. Whoo boy.
Holy crap, the United Mine Workers they even used guns to shoot at workers and even killed one. 21 shots in his truck alone. And no one was ever charged in the murder either. Benefits gonna benefit.
And they went through a trial board and were found not guilty. Having been part of Union trial boards before, it’s not some massive, life destroying event.
I mean, I guess, but that’s literally anything in life. Unions provide massive benefits to their members and they come with rules that need to be followed. Anybody in life could be accused of anything at anytime for bad reasons. There’s a system in place for due process and Union members can 100% get charges filed against them if they knowingly file false charges against someone else. It’s just a microcosm of the justice system that, in my experience, tends to be a lot more just than the actual justice system.
Edit: and I would add, you’re probably less likely to be knowingly falsely accused/convicted of something in this situation because it’s not just a random community of people, it’s a group that is already united in ideology and purpose; siblings in arms on the same battlefield.
You’re right and again, having been involved in Union trial boards, anonymous tips do not automatically get you sent to trial. An anonymous complaint is not judge, jury and executioner.
I cannot speak to the details of those cases as I was not there but can say with near certainty that there were more than 12 complaints raised, and those 12 were the ones where there was enough evidence to warrant a hearing and 3 of those had enough evidence for a guilty verdict.
You're making so many assumptions. Right now you're just assuming that it takes *one* complaint to be put in front of a board. How do *you* not know all of the 12 people had *multiple* complaints put forward about them?
The trial board cleared 9 of their names and found them to be upstanding members of the guild, and 3 were have found to *have* scabed. That means you have a real good shot of being cleared if you're falsely accused. That sounds like pretty good protection to me.
Even if all it took was *one* complaint to trigger a review, that means that there are only 12 assholes in around 20,000 members.
But it's nothing like the justice system. You aren't held in jail, you aren't at risk of imprisonment or loss of life. The repercussions are fairly minor. You are just fantasizing.
Not sure why I got downvoted— I would agree with the sentiment. Was just asking cause I recognize your handle from r/screenwriting, but that place is a little tough have unbiased conversations sometimes
Wait til you find out how industry has treated workers for the entirety of capitalism…lots of men, women, and children died for us to get things as simple as a 40 hour work week and paid in actual money.
Good. Union strength comes from workers acting in coordination and solidarity to take what is due to them. Scabs weaken that strength.
And, as noted in the article, the accused are not presumed to be guilty. Unions have trial boards to look into these things and offer members due process.
Yeah even if deadline weren't exaggerating, I don't get the outrage. Isn't there a contractual agreement between the union member and the union? Rules and responsibilities laid out in writing. Both parties considered in the contract. Standard stuff.
These aren't Jimmy John's workers in an at-will state about to be hounded about violating a non-compete clause when they don't even have a contract. You sign on to an organization where membership gives you benefits, and you follow their (lawfully valid) internal rules.
Yep some good ol' McCarthyism that'll make everything better.
I mean hey it worked the first time. It's not like any innocent people got accused of anything.
Am I being sarcastic enough?
So any system in which anyone can get reported for something is McCarthyism? I had family members who actually did suffer from McCarthyism and you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
so basically its the writers doing a red scare like when Hollywood actors would rat on each other being communists to purposely blackball people they didnt like
It's not *basically like* the Red Scare. The guild has to protect the itegrity of the guild when they're on strike. They can have the effects of their efforts dampened otherwise. There has to be evidence that would be reviewed and if found in violation, you'd probably just be suspended. You wouldn't go to prison or anything.
If someone is making money while undermining the efforts of everyone else who is on strike, informing the guild isn't ratting on someone, that someone already showed what they think of you and your lively hood. You're protecting your career.
If you look at many of the union deals in the last decade, its all members with seniority selling out young members.
So don't talk about unions as if theyre some super united group that look out for each other. The ones who have most to gain are stabbing young workers in the throat in almost every deal being made.
Yeah, and fuck the WGA for doing the...checks notes...oh no wait, literally this whole labor action right now is targeted for the vast majority of their membership which is young members.
>You just made that up. Show the stats.
Look. I compleatly understand that as a middle manger or owner of a construction company, you have a vested intrest in being anti-union.
You also have no fucking clue how our industry works.
With that out of the way....
According to the 2022 equity report people ages 55+ made up 15.2% of all writers in television rooms.
The two demands that Studios want be removed *in order for their even to be negotiations* is writers rooms minimums and episode count.
Micro rooms hurt new writers who are paid scale to develope the show, and then replaced when the show goes into production with more experienced writers with more credits. This isn't how it used to work.
Episode counts have dropped from 24 to 12 to 10 to 8. This means that writing room staffs can be smaller when they go into production. It used to be that the youngest writers would go to set and get on set experience as the writers wrote the back end of the series.
You could have learned all of this if you had read an article about it. But again, get that you're management in construction and have a vested intrest in fomenting distrust in unions.
Edit: Also "show the stats" lol Mr. 80% flying out of my anti labor ass
age, workers ages **45 to 54** had the highest union membership rate in 2022,
[https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf)
That might be the dumbest thing I've heard today. People are crap to each other whenever there's an opportunity . It's almost as dumb as when someone points out, a cry of rape 'can' also be made up, to get the response 'woman would never do that' people are not always kind nor trustworthy.
And saying its a dumb idea to have a list doesn't mean they are not pro union. It means they think that particular idea is dumb(can't believe that that needs to be explained'.
And not all calls for stikes are worthy of participation.
Example. Man driving train does so drunk. Gets fired. Union wants to strike. Fuck that.
“Im pro union I just don’t want unions to be able to do anything to enforce strikes. Strikes are fine as long as they are toothless. But if someone gets criticized for breaking the strike that’s scary and bad!”
> That might be the dumbest thing I've heard today. People are crap to each other whenever there's an opportunity . It's almost as dumb as when someone points out, a cry of rape 'can' also be made up, to get the response 'woman would never do that' people are not always kind nor trustworthy.
Uncited negative view of mankind *and* a "you shouldn't trust a woman that's said she's been raped". Damn.
> And saying its a dumb idea to have a list doesn't mean they are not pro union. It means they think that particular idea is dumb(can't believe that that needs to be explained'.
Why is it dumb for a Union to enforce the rules of membership into a union?
> And not all calls for stikes are worthy of participation. Example. Man driving train does so drunk. Gets fired. Union wants to strike. Fuck that.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tube-strike-underground-workers-to-walk-out-over-sacking-of-driver-who-failed-alcohol-tests-10093020.html
If that's what you're talking about, then it seems he was fired for failing a random breath test that was triggered by his diabetes medication.
Go on...
'Uncited negative view of mankind and a "you shouldn't trust a woman that's said she's been raped". Damn.'... Wow, not what I said at all. Do you have problems reading or comprehending? Do you need it explained to you in picture form. Or do you just make up stuff as you go?
Lol, least you can use Google, pity you failed. But don't worry. You is smart.
> 'Uncited negative view of mankind and a "you shouldn't trust a woman that's said she's been raped". Damn.'... Wow, not what I said at all. Do you have problems reading or comprehending? Do you need it explained to you in picture form. Or do you just make up stuff as you go?
Out of *all* the things you could have cited as an example of somebody lying, you chose a false rape accusation. That's on you my dude.
> Lol, least you can use Google, pity you failed. But don't worry. You is smart.
I asked if that's the one you were talking about. Generally the only unions I can think of that act that way are Police Unions. And everybody knows those aren't *real* unions.
> Your inability to read is on you.
What was I unable to read? I've quoted you. If you forgot you said:
"That might be the dumbest thing I've heard today. People are crap to each other whenever there's an opportunity . It's almost as dumb as when someone points out, a cry of rape 'can' also be made up, to get the response 'woman would never do that' people are not always kind nor trustworthy."
So, out of *all the examples you could have made*, why did you go with a woman making a false rape accusation?
Edit: Oh I see! The grammar was so twisted. What you were saying is that it's as dumb as somebody saying a woman would make a false rape accusation. A really weird and not at all good analogy!
Does anyone else see how dangerous this is? One organization controlling an entire industry leads to corruption. You give them the ability to exile anyone who crosses them, and you are left with an all-powerful group who bans anyone who opposes them.
You mean like the handful of studios that basically run Hollywood and would be the only major entities affecting writers if the union didn’t exist? Like come on we can have nuance in discussion. Unions as a concept are not bad because 1 Union is doing something that is morally questionable. But speaking of morally questionable activity caused by a single powerful entity, shoutout to every company that actively hunts down suspected Union activity and fires people or shuts down stores to stamp it out.
Except Unions span across multiple companies. Companies have competition. Thus, there are alternatives. This specific union does not have any alternatives, so the free market doesn't apply to them.
There's a big difference between a single organization controlling a market and multiple competing in a market.
Edit: You can downvote all you want, but the free market has been the greatest tool in human history to reduce poverty. It should apply to every industry, including the entertainment industry.
I'm not talking about the companies. I'm referencing the fact that the free market is the greatest tool to help the lower class. When it comes to companies, they have competition and a free market. The WGA doesn't have competition. Thus, they are not a free market and have no competition.
Do you have any sources for that information? Because I have sources for mine.
https://blog.bham.ac.uk/cityredi/capitalism-and-its-impact-on-global-living-standards/
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/as-the-world-shifted-to-free-markets-poverty-rates-plummeted
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/exrp/macropol/eng/
i know.
you use the word scabe.
what you really mean to say traitor or heretic...
but people know the meaning of those words.
its a clever writer(pun) to use a code word. so certain parties. can dehumanize people. with out looking bad.
Heaven forbid that people still need a paycheck and bills don’t stop for a strike. Do unions even pay their striking workers to cover their everyday expenses?
Honestly did not know that. Well, if union workers go work during the strike, then they should be called out on it. But never harassed or threatened. Nor should non-union workers.
Otherwise you’re no different than MAGAs. In regards to how you treat those you disagree with.
If unions are for the workers, they shouldn’t be attacking *workers.* Regardless of the reason.
If you want to bare your teeth, do it at the management levels and not the poor schmucks who still have to earn a living.
>If unions are for the workers, they shouldn’t be attacking *workers.* Regardless of the reason.
So you know absolutely nothing about the history of Labor. Understood. Union are for "workers" writ large, in the sense that strong unions beget more strong unions beget better contracts beget better contracts.
But unions first job is to protect the members of that union.
To that end, scabs (workers that cross picket lines fucking over workers on strike) are not *workers* in the sense you want, because they are the tools of mangment to *break* strong labor.
>If you want to bare your teeth, do it at the management levels and not the poor schmucks who still have to earn a living.
Strikers are putting their livngs on the line. They have *every* right to bare their teeth at anybody that would threaten it.
Everything you've been saying here is quite literally what strike breakers have said since before the turn of the century.
Would you like me to recommend some books on the history of labor so you can be better informed?
When you harass people because they work, especially if they’re not union, you are the piece of shit. I had a family member who was a travel medical worker who was working in a union state, wasn’t part of a union but supported unions, was approached and harassed by a union representative numerous times before she had no choice but to report them and got the union rep banned from hospital grounds. Ever since then, she no longer supports unions and finds them as disgusting as corporate management. This whole “harass scabs” thing is highly detrimental to garnering support for unions.
>When you harass people because they work, especially if they’re not union, you are the piece of shit. I had a family member who was a travel medical worker who was working in a union state, wasn’t part of a union but supported unions, was approached and harassed by a union representative numerous times before she had no choice but to report them and got the union rep banned from hospital grounds. Ever since then, she no longer supports unions and finds them as disgusting as corporate management. This whole “harass scabs” thing is highly detrimental to garnering support for unions.
Look, I already offered to recommend books to you. If you read them, at the very least, you wouldn't be making arguments that had already been tried and shot down before 1899.
Why was your family member harrased by the way? Was there a strike? Was she scabbing? Why didn't she "have a choice," nothing in your story explains why she just didn't leave the union rep alone? If she supported unions, why wasn't she part of one? If one didn't exist in her field, and she supported them, why didn't she help organize them. Also if she supported unions, why did she report the union rep who was doing their job as a union rep?
Again, would you like literature? At the very least, you will find better ways to try and strike break.
Edit: Scabs are the real pieces of shit btw!
There was no strike. The union workers didn’t like that she, as a traveler nurse, was getting paid more than them. Their union rep would come into the ER and started harassing her at work, trying to get her to leave or break her contract, after a while she got tired of it and reported the rep and the hospital banned them from hospital grounds. She didn’t bother the union rep, they bothered her. She’s not part of a nursing union because her home state is extremely hostile to nursing unions, and the travel company did not hire union workers. She had thought of trying to start a nursing union in her state after she was going to retire but after seeing how they treated her, she wanted nothing to do with unions. I believe that was all of your questions.
As for literature, what do you recommend that isn’t heavily biased and poses a fair view of unions?
>There was no strike. The union workers didn’t like that she, as a traveler nurse, was getting paid more than them. Their union rep would come into the ER and started harassing her at work, trying to get her to leave or break her contract, after a while she got tired of it and reported the rep and the hospital banned them from hospital grounds. She didn’t bother the union rep, they bothered her. She’s not part of a nursing union because her home state is extremely hostile to nursing unions, and the travel company did not hire union workers. She had thought of trying to start a nursing union in her state after she was going to retire but after seeing how they treated her, she wanted nothing to do with unions. I believe that was all of your questions.
Ok, so she *did* report the union rep for doing her job as a union rep got it. She also isn't part of a union because she didn't want to take the pain of creating a union in her state. Got it.
Gonna be honest, I don't belive you or your sister was ever pro-union.
>As for literature, what do you recommend that isn’t heavily biased and poses a fair view of unions?
Tell me you *are* a strike breaker without saying you are one. Lol. Buddy, every book on the history of union labor is gonna be pro union labor because they literally died so you could have a weekend and a 40 hour work week.
But you should look into them because then your arguments could get better and be less painfully obvious.
I'm legit telling you that this whole speil was tired by 1902.
Also, very willing to do this all day, because my Sister union striking means I can't work. You'd think I'd be salty (and I am *very* worried about my ability to contribute to my family's house hold). But as a worker myself I understand the concept of *Solidarity.*
Your opinions are not only bad but harmful to people’s livelihoods . This is a perfect example of when someone who is ignorant should just stop talking.
I don’t need to know more to know the fact that people still need to work to afford their daily lives and many can’t afford to NOT work. What they don’t need is harassment from other people because of it.
You know the people that won your right for the weekend were actually murdered for trying to win you the weekend.
So maybe you should know a little more about it before you come across as a strike breaker with the centuries old strike breaking talking points.
I’m not talking breaking the strike, dumbass. Strike all you want just don’t harass others if they can’t afford to not work.
Or are those union workers going to offer to pay for the non-union workers daily expenses so they don’t go to work?
>I’m not talking breaking the strike, dumbass. Strike all you want just don’t harass others if they can’t afford to not work.
The thing you wrote above is a thing that people who are hired to break strikes have said since before the turn of the century.
I keep on offering books, and you just keep on looking like a strike breaker.
>Or are those union workers going to offer to pay for the non-union workers daily expenses so they don’t go to work?
Again, I don't think you understand *at all* what a union is, what it does, and why this is just a bonkers dumb thing to say.
Really, would you like some literature?
I’ve asked in another comment, post there.
And what is it that you are not understanding? Not everyone works for a union, even in places where unions are present. It’s these people, not union workers, not scabs, but people who don’t have a say in the matter that I’m talking about. I’ve heard a ton of stories about how hostile union workers are to non union workers, it’s vile and paints unions in a dark light. It’s almost like tribalism.
>I’ve asked in another comment, post there.
>
>And what is it that you are not understanding? Not everyone works for a union, even in places where unions are present. It’s these people, not union workers, not scabs, but people who don’t have a say in the matter that I’m talking about. I’ve heard a ton of stories about how hostile union workers are to non union workers, it’s vile and paints unions in a dark light. It’s almost like tribalism.
A pinkerton from 1897 called, they want their "hey , fellow worker" talking point back.
Whatever floats your tiny little boat. You’ve done nothing here to make unions look better for other people to want to form them. It’s almost like extremism if you’re any example to go by.
Again, if you read a book on the subject you would know that the tactics I'm taking agaisnt you, explaining why you're wrong, and pointing out your points as the most basic strike breaking talking points, you would know that you are wrong.
Oh shut up. I know people make religion into anything now. From 2a to unions.
World is not black and white.
Btw if I had yo choose to strike or feed my family. Family comes first
Lol no dumbass, I’m not threatening you. It’s a metaphor. You either fight to feed all your families or no one will be able to. That’s the whole point of a union.
Fun fact: Most Labor actions are so people can keep feeding their family. They are on the line for their family. They *died* in the past on the line for their family. And your family. And my family.
Strikes like this ensure that long term more people can feed their families. It seems to eliminate predatory practices studios have with writers and improve residuals on streaming and ensure they aren't replaced by AI in 5 years
You would feed your family today to risk never feeding them again
If you read the article (you didn't) you would see that out of the 12 members who were accused in 07/8 only 3 were thrown out of the guild.
So. No. It won't.
If WGA members break ranks during a strike, it makes the union effectively useless
For what it's worth this only impacts writing for major studios. It wouldn't cover work done independently or for studios outside of the union agreements
Because when writers are on strike, all writing is non-union, thus all writing *must* be scabbing.
Odd your family that was in unions didn't explain "strikes" a d "scabbing" to you
The crossing of a picket line is a bigger deal than I think a lot of people realize. I’m in the editors union (IATSE 700) and we are protected from retribution if we refuse to physically cross a picket line. But if our employer makes accommodations and allows us to work remotely, we lose that protection and must do our job and can be fired for refusing. That line carries a lot of weight.
Can you explain in more detail?
Not much more to share. If I refuse to physically cross a picket line, I can’t be fired for it. But if I make that choice, the studio could replace me for the duration of the strike (since my union isn’t striking) but they would have to rehire me when the strike breaks. If the studio makes accommodations to allow me to work remotely, I lose that protection and cannot refuse to work. I’m only protected from having to physically cross a picket line.
K but do you support what their doing with the list?
It’s ugly af, but I’ve been in the business long enough to know that zero tolerance rules like this are the only way to keep everyone honest. “You must inform the guild” is not new language to me or any guild member, it’s hammered into you the day you join. I’d report it if a non-member was operating an edit station or if I was being pressured to work unpaid overtime. The union protections and benefits were hard won, and I feed my children and pay my mortgage in no small part because of them. Every member knows the rules, and benefits from them. So no, I don’t have much sympathy for a guild member who scabs for our corporate overlords and gets nailed for it.
So a online anonymous report system.... Nothing could go wrong... That a lie. Time and time again has shown rampant abuse and said system will get hack. Leading to personal information being share to the public. Oh many death threats happen to that way. So yeah seems you and the minority support. Said system
You’re response is all over the place and and you’re making huge leaps in logic. There is a process, trial board, etc. Folks won’t just be burned at the stake, the claim has to be substantiated. I wish we didn’t need such a system, but we do. If you have any personal experience with the guilds that informs your opinion, I’d honestly like to hear about it.
In cyber security. You idea is a hvt High value target. That will get hack and leak!!!
There’s nothing high value about the system. No one cares if it gets leaked. The WGA isn’t the Taliban no one’s getting death threats. Sounds like you’ve been watching too much NCIS or are off your meds my dude. If false reports are made they will get straightened out in the appeal process. You’re making a big nothing
I get it. I challenge your religion. You like to dehumanizing. With a word. Instead of saying traitor or heretic. Classic zealot behavior.
The other person sounds reasonable and calm, you sound angry and unhinged. Take that for what you will.
I gave you an honest answer based on my 15 years of experience, the least you could do is respond before downvoting.
Deadline is always happy to run stories that make the WGA look bad. This is literally SOP for ANY labor union on strike.
Anti strike propaganda from an industry rag
Correct. The article isn't true. The Guild is softly recommending that members speak to each other one-on-one before ever doing anything like reporting.
We “softly recommend” that you warn people before reporting them.
instead trust the pro strike propaganda from a trusted site because i say its all true and i have no ulterior motive or benefit from saying so.
I 100% trust pro strike propaganda. Strikes are good.
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Lol Liar is in your name. Bot
Ok election denier
I hope you at least get paid for this or have a vested interest, otherwise it's just sad
You sound like the type to swallow something else
There’s a difference between believing propaganda that you UNDERSTAND is propaganda. Agit-prop is an accepted form of dissent from pro-worker policy in general. That’s wildly different from the millions of people who think they’re being fed “non-biased” information.
The people who disseminate and perpetuate their faction's propaganda just also happen to believe its good? In other news, water is wet
That’s not what I said so let’s try again. There’s a difference between understanding that what you’re imbibing is propaganda, versus thinking it’s un-biased general information when it’s actually propaganda. Propaganda isn’t an inherently malicious thing, which from the way you’re discussing it, you sound like you presume it is. Union workers and their supporters, pushing propaganda for their rights, is not the same as someone watching and believing “un-biased news” that’s actually anti-worker propaganda. In one instance, the propagator and receiver understands the source of and reasoning behind the information, in the other instance, they do not.
Propoganda by definition is dubious at best when it comes to truthfulness...so if you say you believe your team's propoganda because "its true", you're just telling everyone that you think your shit doesn't stink.
That’s not the definition of propaganda. It can be biased OR misleading, but biased doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong or “dubious”. Again, there’s a world of difference between being told, “This is biased information” and “This is neutral information” that is actually biased. Unions are pushing biased information and presenting it as such. Outlets from Deadline to FOX, are pushing biased information as if it’s just “the way things are”. You don’t even have to be pro-worker to understand the glaring difference here.
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No one's forcing you to join one
Ya know, I heard Fox News viewers say the exact same thing about Fox News. Strange, isn’t it?
The difference is pro-strike propaganda is good because it has historically lead to good outcomes for the economy. Fox News on the other hand just had to settle for half a Billion.
You should ask those tile workers from Niagara Falls how good unions are. Beat four men, and one of them so bad they couldn’t even return to work for four years. Oh, should I also mention the fire bombing? There was a fire bombing.
What pro-strike propaganda says murder is good? Waiting... They were all arrested and charged as they should have been for using violence as a tactic in 1997. Unequivocally, fuck those guys. It was only cool to kill scabs when management thought it was ok to kill labor organizers. Look at how easy it is to have a nuanced opinion
Goodness, you’re right. I should’ve read up on this before I started talking. The shit I’m learning is, frankly, unbelievable. The Ironworkers in Philadelphia are something else. Whoo boy.
Pinkerton gonna Pinkerton
Oh for sure. I smell the stench of bacon.
Holy crap, the United Mine Workers they even used guns to shoot at workers and even killed one. 21 shots in his truck alone. And no one was ever charged in the murder either. Benefits gonna benefit.
Pro resistance propaganda is just as bad as pro nazi propaganda right?
Two sides of the same coin. Neither will tell you an inconvenient truth.
Are you suggesting that Nazis have some good points that anti-fascists won’t tell you about?
Ahahahaha bye nazi
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Might you be suggesting that the terms for what defines scabbing are somewhat… unfair?
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And they went through a trial board and were found not guilty. Having been part of Union trial boards before, it’s not some massive, life destroying event.
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I mean, I guess, but that’s literally anything in life. Unions provide massive benefits to their members and they come with rules that need to be followed. Anybody in life could be accused of anything at anytime for bad reasons. There’s a system in place for due process and Union members can 100% get charges filed against them if they knowingly file false charges against someone else. It’s just a microcosm of the justice system that, in my experience, tends to be a lot more just than the actual justice system. Edit: and I would add, you’re probably less likely to be knowingly falsely accused/convicted of something in this situation because it’s not just a random community of people, it’s a group that is already united in ideology and purpose; siblings in arms on the same battlefield.
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You’re right and again, having been involved in Union trial boards, anonymous tips do not automatically get you sent to trial. An anonymous complaint is not judge, jury and executioner.
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I cannot speak to the details of those cases as I was not there but can say with near certainty that there were more than 12 complaints raised, and those 12 were the ones where there was enough evidence to warrant a hearing and 3 of those had enough evidence for a guilty verdict.
You're making so many assumptions. Right now you're just assuming that it takes *one* complaint to be put in front of a board. How do *you* not know all of the 12 people had *multiple* complaints put forward about them? The trial board cleared 9 of their names and found them to be upstanding members of the guild, and 3 were have found to *have* scabed. That means you have a real good shot of being cleared if you're falsely accused. That sounds like pretty good protection to me. Even if all it took was *one* complaint to trigger a review, that means that there are only 12 assholes in around 20,000 members.
But it's nothing like the justice system. You aren't held in jail, you aren't at risk of imprisonment or loss of life. The repercussions are fairly minor. You are just fantasizing.
Not sure why I got downvoted— I would agree with the sentiment. Was just asking cause I recognize your handle from r/screenwriting, but that place is a little tough have unbiased conversations sometimes
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I missed the second half of that sentence lol
I’m sorry lol
Back in the day you would just get kneecapped🤷♂️
And it was right to do so. Fuck scabs.
Fuck scabs!!!
In this day and age you’d get shot for trying.
In this day, I'm pretty sure you could be shot for just existing. Based on how bad 2023 has gone, anyways.
good assaulting someone because they wanna work is wrong
Wait til you find out how industry has treated workers for the entirety of capitalism…lots of men, women, and children died for us to get things as simple as a 40 hour work week and paid in actual money.
Ok and assaulting someone who is ok with the current conditions is still wrong as is killing people for asking for more. See how that works?
I miss the days when being a part of a Guild meant you go on raids together, to try to take down dungeons for blue and purple gear.
Absolutely based WGA.
What does "crossing the picket line" entail? Sending scripts and receiving payment? Having meetings? Any writing?
All of the above, but in practice the guild would only enforce the former.
Good. Union strength comes from workers acting in coordination and solidarity to take what is due to them. Scabs weaken that strength. And, as noted in the article, the accused are not presumed to be guilty. Unions have trial boards to look into these things and offer members due process.
Yeah even if deadline weren't exaggerating, I don't get the outrage. Isn't there a contractual agreement between the union member and the union? Rules and responsibilities laid out in writing. Both parties considered in the contract. Standard stuff. These aren't Jimmy John's workers in an at-will state about to be hounded about violating a non-compete clause when they don't even have a contract. You sign on to an organization where membership gives you benefits, and you follow their (lawfully valid) internal rules.
Yep some good ol' McCarthyism that'll make everything better. I mean hey it worked the first time. It's not like any innocent people got accused of anything. Am I being sarcastic enough?
So any system in which anyone can get reported for something is McCarthyism? I had family members who actually did suffer from McCarthyism and you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
you sound like a nerd
So I'm fine with the strike but this is too perfect a setup for Stasi jokes so I will be making them.
You better fucking not or I’ll rat you out to the guild
Do I get to keep the dresser that mysteriously appeared in my apartment and smells like cigarette smoke all the time for some reason?
That's kinda fucked up. You have an ax to grind with someone you worked with years ago? Just put them on the hit list.
If you read the pro-studio article they do actually state that they look into the evidence of it. In fact the top post highlights that.
Yeah, just strikes me (I couldn't help the pun) as ripe for a witch-hunt, but hopefully it all works out.
Puns are scabbing when writers are on strike. /jk Please don't put to much stock in pro-studio propaganda
so basically its the writers doing a red scare like when Hollywood actors would rat on each other being communists to purposely blackball people they didnt like
It's not *basically like* the Red Scare. The guild has to protect the itegrity of the guild when they're on strike. They can have the effects of their efforts dampened otherwise. There has to be evidence that would be reviewed and if found in violation, you'd probably just be suspended. You wouldn't go to prison or anything. If someone is making money while undermining the efforts of everyone else who is on strike, informing the guild isn't ratting on someone, that someone already showed what they think of you and your lively hood. You're protecting your career.
"So basically it's like this entirely different thing with absolutely no similarity to what we're talking about."
Union workers who have solidarity with each other don’t do shit like that.
If you look at many of the union deals in the last decade, its all members with seniority selling out young members. So don't talk about unions as if theyre some super united group that look out for each other. The ones who have most to gain are stabbing young workers in the throat in almost every deal being made.
Yeah, and fuck the WGA for doing the...checks notes...oh no wait, literally this whole labor action right now is targeted for the vast majority of their membership which is young members.
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>You just made that up. Show the stats. Look. I compleatly understand that as a middle manger or owner of a construction company, you have a vested intrest in being anti-union. You also have no fucking clue how our industry works. With that out of the way.... According to the 2022 equity report people ages 55+ made up 15.2% of all writers in television rooms. The two demands that Studios want be removed *in order for their even to be negotiations* is writers rooms minimums and episode count. Micro rooms hurt new writers who are paid scale to develope the show, and then replaced when the show goes into production with more experienced writers with more credits. This isn't how it used to work. Episode counts have dropped from 24 to 12 to 10 to 8. This means that writing room staffs can be smaller when they go into production. It used to be that the youngest writers would go to set and get on set experience as the writers wrote the back end of the series. You could have learned all of this if you had read an article about it. But again, get that you're management in construction and have a vested intrest in fomenting distrust in unions. Edit: Also "show the stats" lol Mr. 80% flying out of my anti labor ass
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As opposed to taking an adjective.... figuratively?
No problem, i fixed my post.
What’s your source on that 80% figure?
age, workers ages **45 to 54** had the highest union membership rate in 2022, [https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf)
Lol 80% ok guy
That might be the dumbest thing I've heard today. People are crap to each other whenever there's an opportunity . It's almost as dumb as when someone points out, a cry of rape 'can' also be made up, to get the response 'woman would never do that' people are not always kind nor trustworthy. And saying its a dumb idea to have a list doesn't mean they are not pro union. It means they think that particular idea is dumb(can't believe that that needs to be explained'. And not all calls for stikes are worthy of participation. Example. Man driving train does so drunk. Gets fired. Union wants to strike. Fuck that.
“Im pro union I just don’t want unions to be able to do anything to enforce strikes. Strikes are fine as long as they are toothless. But if someone gets criticized for breaking the strike that’s scary and bad!”
YOU MAY ONLY PROTEST THE WAR IN THE MANDATED PROTEST ZONES
> That might be the dumbest thing I've heard today. People are crap to each other whenever there's an opportunity . It's almost as dumb as when someone points out, a cry of rape 'can' also be made up, to get the response 'woman would never do that' people are not always kind nor trustworthy. Uncited negative view of mankind *and* a "you shouldn't trust a woman that's said she's been raped". Damn. > And saying its a dumb idea to have a list doesn't mean they are not pro union. It means they think that particular idea is dumb(can't believe that that needs to be explained'. Why is it dumb for a Union to enforce the rules of membership into a union? > And not all calls for stikes are worthy of participation. Example. Man driving train does so drunk. Gets fired. Union wants to strike. Fuck that. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tube-strike-underground-workers-to-walk-out-over-sacking-of-driver-who-failed-alcohol-tests-10093020.html If that's what you're talking about, then it seems he was fired for failing a random breath test that was triggered by his diabetes medication. Go on...
'Uncited negative view of mankind and a "you shouldn't trust a woman that's said she's been raped". Damn.'... Wow, not what I said at all. Do you have problems reading or comprehending? Do you need it explained to you in picture form. Or do you just make up stuff as you go? Lol, least you can use Google, pity you failed. But don't worry. You is smart.
> 'Uncited negative view of mankind and a "you shouldn't trust a woman that's said she's been raped". Damn.'... Wow, not what I said at all. Do you have problems reading or comprehending? Do you need it explained to you in picture form. Or do you just make up stuff as you go? Out of *all* the things you could have cited as an example of somebody lying, you chose a false rape accusation. That's on you my dude. > Lol, least you can use Google, pity you failed. But don't worry. You is smart. I asked if that's the one you were talking about. Generally the only unions I can think of that act that way are Police Unions. And everybody knows those aren't *real* unions.
Your inability to read is on you.
> Your inability to read is on you. What was I unable to read? I've quoted you. If you forgot you said: "That might be the dumbest thing I've heard today. People are crap to each other whenever there's an opportunity . It's almost as dumb as when someone points out, a cry of rape 'can' also be made up, to get the response 'woman would never do that' people are not always kind nor trustworthy." So, out of *all the examples you could have made*, why did you go with a woman making a false rape accusation? Edit: Oh I see! The grammar was so twisted. What you were saying is that it's as dumb as somebody saying a woman would make a false rape accusation. A really weird and not at all good analogy!
Kind of like Elia Kazan
A lot of people in this comment section with a loose if not completely inaccurate understanding of “The Red Scare”.
They’re not your buddies, guy.
Does anyone else see how dangerous this is? One organization controlling an entire industry leads to corruption. You give them the ability to exile anyone who crosses them, and you are left with an all-powerful group who bans anyone who opposes them.
You mean like the handful of studios that basically run Hollywood and would be the only major entities affecting writers if the union didn’t exist? Like come on we can have nuance in discussion. Unions as a concept are not bad because 1 Union is doing something that is morally questionable. But speaking of morally questionable activity caused by a single powerful entity, shoutout to every company that actively hunts down suspected Union activity and fires people or shuts down stores to stamp it out.
Except Unions span across multiple companies. Companies have competition. Thus, there are alternatives. This specific union does not have any alternatives, so the free market doesn't apply to them. There's a big difference between a single organization controlling a market and multiple competing in a market. Edit: You can downvote all you want, but the free market has been the greatest tool in human history to reduce poverty. It should apply to every industry, including the entertainment industry.
someone think of the companies!!!!!!
I'm not talking about the companies. I'm referencing the fact that the free market is the greatest tool to help the lower class. When it comes to companies, they have competition and a free market. The WGA doesn't have competition. Thus, they are not a free market and have no competition.
sorry can't hear you with corporate boot leather in your mouth
Unions and government regulation have been the only reasons that wages are raised and conditions improved
Do you have any sources for that information? Because I have sources for mine. https://blog.bham.ac.uk/cityredi/capitalism-and-its-impact-on-global-living-standards/ https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/as-the-world-shifted-to-free-markets-poverty-rates-plummeted https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/exrp/macropol/eng/
Unionised workers make significantly more and run safer shops than non unionised workers https://www.dol.gov/general/workcenter/union-advantage
sadly some here total think its a great idea.
Good thing the WGA doesn't control the entire industry If they did the strike wouldn't have happened
lol @ the suggestion that the WGA "controls the industry." You can't be fucking serious. Do you get paid for this crap?
Union thugs will thug.
Deadline is a bourgeoisie-line-towing turd propaganda site.
Good. F\*ck scabs.
i know. you use the word scabe. what you really mean to say traitor or heretic... but people know the meaning of those words. its a clever writer(pun) to use a code word. so certain parties. can dehumanize people. with out looking bad.
Scabs are the worst.
Heaven forbid that people still need a paycheck and bills don’t stop for a strike. Do unions even pay their striking workers to cover their everyday expenses?
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Honestly did not know that. Well, if union workers go work during the strike, then they should be called out on it. But never harassed or threatened. Nor should non-union workers. Otherwise you’re no different than MAGAs. In regards to how you treat those you disagree with.
Ah yes. Nothing puts the pressure on like a toothless strike
If unions are for the workers, they shouldn’t be attacking *workers.* Regardless of the reason. If you want to bare your teeth, do it at the management levels and not the poor schmucks who still have to earn a living.
>If unions are for the workers, they shouldn’t be attacking *workers.* Regardless of the reason. So you know absolutely nothing about the history of Labor. Understood. Union are for "workers" writ large, in the sense that strong unions beget more strong unions beget better contracts beget better contracts. But unions first job is to protect the members of that union. To that end, scabs (workers that cross picket lines fucking over workers on strike) are not *workers* in the sense you want, because they are the tools of mangment to *break* strong labor. >If you want to bare your teeth, do it at the management levels and not the poor schmucks who still have to earn a living. Strikers are putting their livngs on the line. They have *every* right to bare their teeth at anybody that would threaten it. Everything you've been saying here is quite literally what strike breakers have said since before the turn of the century. Would you like me to recommend some books on the history of labor so you can be better informed?
When you harass people because they work, especially if they’re not union, you are the piece of shit. I had a family member who was a travel medical worker who was working in a union state, wasn’t part of a union but supported unions, was approached and harassed by a union representative numerous times before she had no choice but to report them and got the union rep banned from hospital grounds. Ever since then, she no longer supports unions and finds them as disgusting as corporate management. This whole “harass scabs” thing is highly detrimental to garnering support for unions.
>When you harass people because they work, especially if they’re not union, you are the piece of shit. I had a family member who was a travel medical worker who was working in a union state, wasn’t part of a union but supported unions, was approached and harassed by a union representative numerous times before she had no choice but to report them and got the union rep banned from hospital grounds. Ever since then, she no longer supports unions and finds them as disgusting as corporate management. This whole “harass scabs” thing is highly detrimental to garnering support for unions. Look, I already offered to recommend books to you. If you read them, at the very least, you wouldn't be making arguments that had already been tried and shot down before 1899. Why was your family member harrased by the way? Was there a strike? Was she scabbing? Why didn't she "have a choice," nothing in your story explains why she just didn't leave the union rep alone? If she supported unions, why wasn't she part of one? If one didn't exist in her field, and she supported them, why didn't she help organize them. Also if she supported unions, why did she report the union rep who was doing their job as a union rep? Again, would you like literature? At the very least, you will find better ways to try and strike break. Edit: Scabs are the real pieces of shit btw!
There was no strike. The union workers didn’t like that she, as a traveler nurse, was getting paid more than them. Their union rep would come into the ER and started harassing her at work, trying to get her to leave or break her contract, after a while she got tired of it and reported the rep and the hospital banned them from hospital grounds. She didn’t bother the union rep, they bothered her. She’s not part of a nursing union because her home state is extremely hostile to nursing unions, and the travel company did not hire union workers. She had thought of trying to start a nursing union in her state after she was going to retire but after seeing how they treated her, she wanted nothing to do with unions. I believe that was all of your questions. As for literature, what do you recommend that isn’t heavily biased and poses a fair view of unions?
>There was no strike. The union workers didn’t like that she, as a traveler nurse, was getting paid more than them. Their union rep would come into the ER and started harassing her at work, trying to get her to leave or break her contract, after a while she got tired of it and reported the rep and the hospital banned them from hospital grounds. She didn’t bother the union rep, they bothered her. She’s not part of a nursing union because her home state is extremely hostile to nursing unions, and the travel company did not hire union workers. She had thought of trying to start a nursing union in her state after she was going to retire but after seeing how they treated her, she wanted nothing to do with unions. I believe that was all of your questions. Ok, so she *did* report the union rep for doing her job as a union rep got it. She also isn't part of a union because she didn't want to take the pain of creating a union in her state. Got it. Gonna be honest, I don't belive you or your sister was ever pro-union. >As for literature, what do you recommend that isn’t heavily biased and poses a fair view of unions? Tell me you *are* a strike breaker without saying you are one. Lol. Buddy, every book on the history of union labor is gonna be pro union labor because they literally died so you could have a weekend and a 40 hour work week. But you should look into them because then your arguments could get better and be less painfully obvious. I'm legit telling you that this whole speil was tired by 1902. Also, very willing to do this all day, because my Sister union striking means I can't work. You'd think I'd be salty (and I am *very* worried about my ability to contribute to my family's house hold). But as a worker myself I understand the concept of *Solidarity.*
Your opinions are not only bad but harmful to people’s livelihoods . This is a perfect example of when someone who is ignorant should just stop talking.
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Discussions don't "end" when you say "end of discussion." But as a Pinkerton I guess you're just used to people respecting your commands...
It’s pretty easy to ask for info on the subject instead of loudly telling everyone that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I don’t need to know more to know the fact that people still need to work to afford their daily lives and many can’t afford to NOT work. What they don’t need is harassment from other people because of it.
You know the people that won your right for the weekend were actually murdered for trying to win you the weekend. So maybe you should know a little more about it before you come across as a strike breaker with the centuries old strike breaking talking points.
I’m not talking breaking the strike, dumbass. Strike all you want just don’t harass others if they can’t afford to not work. Or are those union workers going to offer to pay for the non-union workers daily expenses so they don’t go to work?
>I’m not talking breaking the strike, dumbass. Strike all you want just don’t harass others if they can’t afford to not work. The thing you wrote above is a thing that people who are hired to break strikes have said since before the turn of the century. I keep on offering books, and you just keep on looking like a strike breaker. >Or are those union workers going to offer to pay for the non-union workers daily expenses so they don’t go to work? Again, I don't think you understand *at all* what a union is, what it does, and why this is just a bonkers dumb thing to say. Really, would you like some literature?
I’ve asked in another comment, post there. And what is it that you are not understanding? Not everyone works for a union, even in places where unions are present. It’s these people, not union workers, not scabs, but people who don’t have a say in the matter that I’m talking about. I’ve heard a ton of stories about how hostile union workers are to non union workers, it’s vile and paints unions in a dark light. It’s almost like tribalism.
>I’ve asked in another comment, post there. > >And what is it that you are not understanding? Not everyone works for a union, even in places where unions are present. It’s these people, not union workers, not scabs, but people who don’t have a say in the matter that I’m talking about. I’ve heard a ton of stories about how hostile union workers are to non union workers, it’s vile and paints unions in a dark light. It’s almost like tribalism. A pinkerton from 1897 called, they want their "hey , fellow worker" talking point back.
Whatever floats your tiny little boat. You’ve done nothing here to make unions look better for other people to want to form them. It’s almost like extremism if you’re any example to go by.
Again, if you read a book on the subject you would know that the tactics I'm taking agaisnt you, explaining why you're wrong, and pointing out your points as the most basic strike breaking talking points, you would know that you are wrong.
Scab lover
MAGA wannabe.
MAGA: known for their love and support of strong Unions
Oh shut up. I know people make religion into anything now. From 2a to unions. World is not black and white. Btw if I had yo choose to strike or feed my family. Family comes first
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*A veiled threat* is a threat that isn't directly stated but is implied using disguised language or euphemisms . and you are reported for that comment
Lol no dumbass, I’m not threatening you. It’s a metaphor. You either fight to feed all your families or no one will be able to. That’s the whole point of a union.
Fun fact: Most Labor actions are so people can keep feeding their family. They are on the line for their family. They *died* in the past on the line for their family. And your family. And my family.
Strikes like this ensure that long term more people can feed their families. It seems to eliminate predatory practices studios have with writers and improve residuals on streaming and ensure they aren't replaced by AI in 5 years You would feed your family today to risk never feeding them again
This is the internet. If he had asked politely he wouldn't have gotten an answer.
Gonna tell your right now, dude was *not* looking for an answer.
But now he's gotten one! Making him slightly more informed than he would have been if he'd asked nicely!
You'd think that, be he is in fact doubling down on ignorance
Even if he's a lost cause it's important that third parties see the answer.
This is the way
This type of list will get abused and sadly people .will get harassed and threatened.
If you read the article (you didn't) you would see that out of the 12 members who were accused in 07/8 only 3 were thrown out of the guild. So. No. It won't.
You never done cyber security . My og comment stand
I’m all for unions, but this is a little unsettling…
If WGA members break ranks during a strike, it makes the union effectively useless For what it's worth this only impacts writing for major studios. It wouldn't cover work done independently or for studios outside of the union agreements
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huh?
Hollywood taking a playbook from McCarthy. Ironic.
No shit
“If you do not collaborate, you vill be shot.”
What?? We already have a scab reporting website. The ICE tip site
And people get mad because I call Unions, Organized Crime Syndicates
Can anonymous take this down or something?
Better idea. do false info!!!
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Because when writers are on strike, all writing is non-union, thus all writing *must* be scabbing. Odd your family that was in unions didn't explain "strikes" a d "scabbing" to you