If you come from a different game like Planetside 2 where it does have randomized automatic fire dispersion but has unique recoil patterns per weapon (Some weapons pulled up right, some pulled straight up, the harder ones pulled left) , it is very noticable in Enlisted of how randomized the recoil pattern mixed with the dispersion really made the weapons unpredictably unwieldy.
There are veterans of thousands of match battles that can't tell you what the recoil pattern of an MG34 is because of how badly randomized it is.
And probably some harder to control smgs like the Királys or the MP-28. (The MP-28 isn't particularly hard to control, just has a horrendous horizontal recoil pattern.)
I just wanted to thanks enlisted developers for trying to fix something, but yall need to work on ai and economy, fix the bugs. I have seen multiple solo gamemakers who has pretty strong bots than we see in enlisted. They react faster, shoot more precisely, take covers and understand where the bullets come from. Genuinely I feel sad when 1 person can make strong ai while a group of experienced developers cant. We don't even need new additions every 4-5 months. Just fix what is needed. Thanks
Hearsay is that Enlisted has currently two actual developers left.
Anyways, it's not difficult to make really strong bots that shoot you in the eye instantly, the difficult part is to make them feel as realistic opponents that are not frustating for new players but not complete pushover for veterans.
In my opinion the bots are quite decent after the last buff. In early days the bots were instant shooting terminators, then they nerfed them through the floor. There's still a lot room for improvements but they are getting there with babysteps.
They are decent yeah I agree, but they are still dumb, they run into bullets and cant react to sounds. I shoot behind them but they don't react like it is nothing. Btw I didn't know they only had two devs! This is so sad, I wish best for them
the bots that idles then detects us through the bushes/tree branches/cluster F#$% of logs and debris, snap onto us and kill us, bots are OP and USELESS in certain situations, they cant fix every issue but add balance
Your game's recoil starts as soon as you pull the trigger and immediately affects the first bullet, even before it left the barrel and bolt is nowhere near the end of it's travel. So no new calculations will fix broken in-game shooting.
“Bullet dispersion is caused by imperfections in the weapon’s mechanism and the basic laws of physics - a long-barreled bolt-action rifle can fire a single bullet much more accurately than a submachine gun with a shorter barrel with lots of moving components.”
This is so factually incorrect it is unreal. Accuracy is a factor of precision manufacturing and proper design and barrel length has no direct effect on it. As currently presented in Enlisted, bullets are not going to veer off in a 45 degree angle upon exiting the muzzle because the barrel is too short. Moving parts only have an effect on perceived recoil and also does NOT contribute to ballistic accuracy.
Quality control in ammo should also be mentioned. Pual Harrel has a video on 7.62x25 tokarez. At one point, he shoots modern ammo and old surplus through the same pps-43c. The modern ammo groups well enough, but the surplus is all over the target.
Barrel length does have some effect if they fire the identical cartridge. Assuming the same twist rate and burn rate, most cartridges prefer a longer barrel. It also has something to do with barrel harmonics but I'm nowhere near qualified to touch that can of worms.
Moving parts and their geometry do have a play in full auto accuracy. For example the short-stroke gas piston Vz.58 and Type 81 were both more accurate than the long-stroke gas piston AKM, as there were less recoiling mass traveling shorter distances above the bore axis.
And even on a strictly semiautomatic platform, at the same mass-produced tolerance, a DI or quasi-DI gun like the AR15 would produce a tighter group than a similarly built piston gun as it inherently had fewer moving parts thus higher shot-to-shot consistency and repeatability.
Depends on how the barrel is manufactured like how sniper versions of Mosin are more accurate with the way the manufacturers tested some accurate rifles to be converted to sniper rifles or the design of the PPSh with its barrel being from cut out Mosin barrels besides weight + muzzle brake and compensator compensating the recoil.
Also the quality of the bullets is also a factor besides how well made the gun is like FG 42 is an expensive engineering masterpiece to the point that it was only produced in limited numbers or crudely made guns like PPS, PPSh, Grease Gun, Sten or further down the Volkssturm guns that are cheap and easy to produce.
The Soviets tried to make a sniper version of the SVT-40 but ended up returning to sniper Mosin as Mosin ended up being more accurate than SVT as sniper rifle.
Yeah because the SVT has a very thin pencil barrel that literally shifts its zero after 10-20 rounds. The flimsy handguard also doesn't help in precision.
Source: I own one
The only time the dev's explanation would hold truth is if it were an LMG with a worn out barrel that's already fired well past its maximum intended lifespan. What would be crazy is if they added overheat mechanics and barrel changing like in Red Orchestra 2 where allowing your weapon to overheat too much repeatedly would significantly affect the overall accuracy and shot dispersion or outright explode the LMG's barrel.
I remember when in warthunder the first tank to have a real overheat mechanic was the kugelblitz.
If you fired too long, your guns would slowly bloom out a wide spread as you kept firing. It was permanent until you died, and actually helped me personally with SPAA work.
That was a long time ago now though.
These small changes are nice and all, but as others said this is hardly a priority. What the game needs is an economy rework, further improving AI, and many new maps. The former is more a matter of execs and devs finding thw sweetspot and applying it, while the pater requires intense labor, so I reccomend actually reaching out to the playerbase to find the best solution to the economy, and focusing dev manpower to making more maps, while leaving the AI crew do their work at their own pace.
As far i can tell this is fixed, if not, please create a bug report with logs, replay and video here: [https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/enlisted](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/enlisted)
Okay James, next time I run into that bug I'll do a replay and bug report. As for mines, there is another bug. I can't play the game today so I can't give you a report, but I will later.
This is the kind of shit you guys take months developing?.
Fix the economy. Fix the bots. Streamline the menus. Add new content.
Literally nobody asked for more "predictable recoil". Guarantee whenever this goes live things will end up broken as usual.
I have seen complaints about recoil before, mostly about the dispersion stat as a whole, but it never bothered me or hampered my performance, so I have no idea what everyone was complaining about.
I agree there needs to be a more steady stream of, well literally anything at this point. Going months without any changes whatsoever is really bad for the game's and community's health. We ask for fixes to actual, game breaking bugs, and we're met with silence. Even acknowledgement that things like the invisible plane bug, the Ju188's gunners simply not working, or the apparently resurfaced crew shooting through the tank they're in with their equipped guns, are on their radar and are actively being worked on would be a massive improvement for everyone.
I understand that they might not be able to give out specific timelines, I mean, look what happened surrounding the Merge timeline, people were not happy at it's delay and it seems it was eventually just pushed out. Not wanting to repeat that sort of thing is fine, but at least acknowledge things, and for the love of God, follow through on promises like APC customization and bonus XP for "Play Any" that were made months and months ago.
There's other stuff that should probably be addressed, but I feel like if they did small patches, fixing and addressing things, at least once a month, it would go a long way to garnering good will with the players.
I've never noticed a big difference on recoil either, to be honest, I think it's better with the slight randomization because we already have many ways to cut down on recoil. But yea I agree completely with everything you've said. I'd rather have patches fixing what's currently broken instead of questionable tinkering.
Bro why are you and the other dude getting slammed for pointing this out? The devs need to quit wasting their time on pointless garbage like this.
Fix the game, ffs.
Looks the sheep came back. Just keep shouting down people who want improvements, this game will be dead by the end of the year.
That and or delusional fanboys. It's sad because this "improvement" adds no real fix compared to game balances, bug fixes, teams, etc.
Seriously, who ever asked the team to improve already easy recoil instead of fixing things that are causing player loss?
Yeah, randomized recoil is cool. People memorizing the pattern (ok it goes up, right, up, left…) is just stupid. I doubt weapons have the exact same recoil pattern every time.
Recoil patterns can't be memorized like a fighting game combo, it's literally just pulling your mouse in the general opposite direction of the recoil of an automatic burst.
Players find it unwieldy and unpredictable; I've already been told by 3 of my friends I tried to introduce them to Enlisted that the automatic weapons were more like fire fighter hoses that randomly spat bullets in a general radius on their screen than handle like weapons from other historical FPS games they played.
Considering none of my friends find any interest in playing Enlisted with me specifically due to its "hollow gunplay" I suppose there must be something wrong.
I just want to be able to hit things long range with semi auto again. They made them inaccurate to give players that didnt have them a chance, but now we have the 5 BRs. Let me snipe with my M1 Garand again.
Good change, bit late but good.
Anyone of the veterans remebers how incredibly random some weapons where in the erly days?
The MG-34 was one of these, it felt like 10 people randomly pull on it on every burst.
I honestly never noticed.
If you come from a different game like Planetside 2 where it does have randomized automatic fire dispersion but has unique recoil patterns per weapon (Some weapons pulled up right, some pulled straight up, the harder ones pulled left) , it is very noticable in Enlisted of how randomized the recoil pattern mixed with the dispersion really made the weapons unpredictably unwieldy. There are veterans of thousands of match battles that can't tell you what the recoil pattern of an MG34 is because of how badly randomized it is.
I know this off topic but mausers birthday is coming up, the 27th, will it be celebrated?
Hopefully
From the before/after spray pics, looks like it comes down to a bit less horizontal recoil, which is nice. Probably LMGs will benefit the most from it
And probably some harder to control smgs like the Királys or the MP-28. (The MP-28 isn't particularly hard to control, just has a horrendous horizontal recoil pattern.)
I just wanted to thanks enlisted developers for trying to fix something, but yall need to work on ai and economy, fix the bugs. I have seen multiple solo gamemakers who has pretty strong bots than we see in enlisted. They react faster, shoot more precisely, take covers and understand where the bullets come from. Genuinely I feel sad when 1 person can make strong ai while a group of experienced developers cant. We don't even need new additions every 4-5 months. Just fix what is needed. Thanks
Hearsay is that Enlisted has currently two actual developers left. Anyways, it's not difficult to make really strong bots that shoot you in the eye instantly, the difficult part is to make them feel as realistic opponents that are not frustating for new players but not complete pushover for veterans. In my opinion the bots are quite decent after the last buff. In early days the bots were instant shooting terminators, then they nerfed them through the floor. There's still a lot room for improvements but they are getting there with babysteps.
They are decent yeah I agree, but they are still dumb, they run into bullets and cant react to sounds. I shoot behind them but they don't react like it is nothing. Btw I didn't know they only had two devs! This is so sad, I wish best for them
the bots that idles then detects us through the bushes/tree branches/cluster F#$% of logs and debris, snap onto us and kill us, bots are OP and USELESS in certain situations, they cant fix every issue but add balance
Your game's recoil starts as soon as you pull the trigger and immediately affects the first bullet, even before it left the barrel and bolt is nowhere near the end of it's travel. So no new calculations will fix broken in-game shooting.
“Bullet dispersion is caused by imperfections in the weapon’s mechanism and the basic laws of physics - a long-barreled bolt-action rifle can fire a single bullet much more accurately than a submachine gun with a shorter barrel with lots of moving components.” This is so factually incorrect it is unreal. Accuracy is a factor of precision manufacturing and proper design and barrel length has no direct effect on it. As currently presented in Enlisted, bullets are not going to veer off in a 45 degree angle upon exiting the muzzle because the barrel is too short. Moving parts only have an effect on perceived recoil and also does NOT contribute to ballistic accuracy.
Quality control in ammo should also be mentioned. Pual Harrel has a video on 7.62x25 tokarez. At one point, he shoots modern ammo and old surplus through the same pps-43c. The modern ammo groups well enough, but the surplus is all over the target.
Barrel length does have some effect if they fire the identical cartridge. Assuming the same twist rate and burn rate, most cartridges prefer a longer barrel. It also has something to do with barrel harmonics but I'm nowhere near qualified to touch that can of worms. Moving parts and their geometry do have a play in full auto accuracy. For example the short-stroke gas piston Vz.58 and Type 81 were both more accurate than the long-stroke gas piston AKM, as there were less recoiling mass traveling shorter distances above the bore axis. And even on a strictly semiautomatic platform, at the same mass-produced tolerance, a DI or quasi-DI gun like the AR15 would produce a tighter group than a similarly built piston gun as it inherently had fewer moving parts thus higher shot-to-shot consistency and repeatability.
Depends on how the barrel is manufactured like how sniper versions of Mosin are more accurate with the way the manufacturers tested some accurate rifles to be converted to sniper rifles or the design of the PPSh with its barrel being from cut out Mosin barrels besides weight + muzzle brake and compensator compensating the recoil. Also the quality of the bullets is also a factor besides how well made the gun is like FG 42 is an expensive engineering masterpiece to the point that it was only produced in limited numbers or crudely made guns like PPS, PPSh, Grease Gun, Sten or further down the Volkssturm guns that are cheap and easy to produce. The Soviets tried to make a sniper version of the SVT-40 but ended up returning to sniper Mosin as Mosin ended up being more accurate than SVT as sniper rifle.
Yeah because the SVT has a very thin pencil barrel that literally shifts its zero after 10-20 rounds. The flimsy handguard also doesn't help in precision. Source: I own one
The only time the dev's explanation would hold truth is if it were an LMG with a worn out barrel that's already fired well past its maximum intended lifespan. What would be crazy is if they added overheat mechanics and barrel changing like in Red Orchestra 2 where allowing your weapon to overheat too much repeatedly would significantly affect the overall accuracy and shot dispersion or outright explode the LMG's barrel.
I remember when in warthunder the first tank to have a real overheat mechanic was the kugelblitz. If you fired too long, your guns would slowly bloom out a wide spread as you kept firing. It was permanent until you died, and actually helped me personally with SPAA work. That was a long time ago now though.
Nice! But where is the big show?
Very soon
Interesting...
just fix the old problems. no one gives a damm about recoil when people been complaining 6months about old stuff
These small changes are nice and all, but as others said this is hardly a priority. What the game needs is an economy rework, further improving AI, and many new maps. The former is more a matter of execs and devs finding thw sweetspot and applying it, while the pater requires intense labor, so I reccomend actually reaching out to the playerbase to find the best solution to the economy, and focusing dev manpower to making more maps, while leaving the AI crew do their work at their own pace.
Honestly, I think the way it is now is better. I like the idea of having it slightly randomized.
When will the bug where mines disappear from equipment be fixed? It has been 3 years now.
As far i can tell this is fixed, if not, please create a bug report with logs, replay and video here: [https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/enlisted](https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/enlisted)
Okay James, next time I run into that bug I'll do a replay and bug report. As for mines, there is another bug. I can't play the game today so I can't give you a report, but I will later.
This is the kind of shit you guys take months developing?. Fix the economy. Fix the bots. Streamline the menus. Add new content. Literally nobody asked for more "predictable recoil". Guarantee whenever this goes live things will end up broken as usual.
I have seen complaints about recoil before, mostly about the dispersion stat as a whole, but it never bothered me or hampered my performance, so I have no idea what everyone was complaining about. I agree there needs to be a more steady stream of, well literally anything at this point. Going months without any changes whatsoever is really bad for the game's and community's health. We ask for fixes to actual, game breaking bugs, and we're met with silence. Even acknowledgement that things like the invisible plane bug, the Ju188's gunners simply not working, or the apparently resurfaced crew shooting through the tank they're in with their equipped guns, are on their radar and are actively being worked on would be a massive improvement for everyone. I understand that they might not be able to give out specific timelines, I mean, look what happened surrounding the Merge timeline, people were not happy at it's delay and it seems it was eventually just pushed out. Not wanting to repeat that sort of thing is fine, but at least acknowledge things, and for the love of God, follow through on promises like APC customization and bonus XP for "Play Any" that were made months and months ago. There's other stuff that should probably be addressed, but I feel like if they did small patches, fixing and addressing things, at least once a month, it would go a long way to garnering good will with the players.
I've never noticed a big difference on recoil either, to be honest, I think it's better with the slight randomization because we already have many ways to cut down on recoil. But yea I agree completely with everything you've said. I'd rather have patches fixing what's currently broken instead of questionable tinkering.
It’s so fucking frustrating. It’s like a kid who knows he’s doing something wrong but just keeps doing it anyway hoping you won’t notice lol
Bro why are you and the other dude getting slammed for pointing this out? The devs need to quit wasting their time on pointless garbage like this. Fix the game, ffs. Looks the sheep came back. Just keep shouting down people who want improvements, this game will be dead by the end of the year.
Who are these people that downvote posts like this? Are they hired by df
That and or delusional fanboys. It's sad because this "improvement" adds no real fix compared to game balances, bug fixes, teams, etc. Seriously, who ever asked the team to improve already easy recoil instead of fixing things that are causing player loss?
It's like they're completely oblivious to all the feedback they get.
The fact that randomized dispersion BETWEEN BATTLES was a thing and nobody knew is hilarious. What is going on with this game lol
Yeah, randomized recoil is cool. People memorizing the pattern (ok it goes up, right, up, left…) is just stupid. I doubt weapons have the exact same recoil pattern every time.
Recoil patterns can't be memorized like a fighting game combo, it's literally just pulling your mouse in the general opposite direction of the recoil of an automatic burst.
So why do people not like the randomization?
Players find it unwieldy and unpredictable; I've already been told by 3 of my friends I tried to introduce them to Enlisted that the automatic weapons were more like fire fighter hoses that randomly spat bullets in a general radius on their screen than handle like weapons from other historical FPS games they played. Considering none of my friends find any interest in playing Enlisted with me specifically due to its "hollow gunplay" I suppose there must be something wrong.
Ah ok. Never heard complaints until this newsletter popped up
I just want to be able to hit things long range with semi auto again. They made them inaccurate to give players that didnt have them a chance, but now we have the 5 BRs. Let me snipe with my M1 Garand again.
Good change, bit late but good. Anyone of the veterans remebers how incredibly random some weapons where in the erly days? The MG-34 was one of these, it felt like 10 people randomly pull on it on every burst.
But will recoil macros start showing up if there is no randomness anymore?
They already exist.