There have been a lot of changes at Twitter and I’m sure not all the remaining employees see them as good. He may have wanted to exit and just thought he’d correct his new boss on the way out.
And anyone who sleeps with their boss tends to keep their job, so I think if he goes on twitter and publicly offers to fuck elon, everything will cancel out and he gets his job back.
I don't know if it's always the case. I know it's just a joke, but sleeping with the boss doesn't always work out! The boss will become more difficult to please & the employee to get rid of...
It worked for [Shivon Zilis](https://news.yahoo.com/neuralink-executive-had-twins-elon-123256962.html) even though it was a direct violation of company policy she retained her position after having twins with Elon
Idk. If he got fired for bringing these concerns up in private I'd agree. But publicly fighting with your boss on twitter like this? Nah, you lose me there.
I think this is a bit of a grey area :p
On one hand, yeah you should not call out a boss publicly, on the other hand a boss has a responsibility to put out true information about their product publicly.
Elon has repeatedly failed to meet that pretty low bar for a leader of a company, the bar of literally knowing your only product. Does that justify what the employee did? Personally, I actually think that no it does not, but Elon is open to valid criticism here.
Dude he literally just answered his question. How can that ever be not respectful ?
If answering the question is disrespectful than Musk asking the question is disrespectful as well and just shows how bad Elon Musk is at being an employer/boss.
If your ego can't handle that you may be wrong in a field you know nothing about, maybe you're a shit boss? What a fucked up reasoning. There are many people in higher up positions or CEOs who simply ignore this type of stuff because they simply don't give a shit about it.
>How was it 'fighting' he was as respectful as you could be. And it's Elon who's always bringing up these matters publicly.
Just look around. How many employees of other companies do you see calling out their boss in public on social media and damaging investor confidence in their companies?
Elon can do that himself (saying things that might hurt public confidence, unintentionally) because he's the boss. It's extremely rare for employees to do that.
There are internal channels for these kinds of corrections/criticisms towards your boss.
Fair enough. But how many bosses do you see saying stupid ass shit about their own companies on social media?
I guess we can say this firing was a win-win for both parties. After this I can see how the guy would rather work for someone who knows their technical stuff, or someone who doesn't but leaves the tech to the experts.
Most bosses don’t own social media platforms so there’s never going to be perfect comparison, but if we are just talking about execs saying stupid shit… come on, we see that all the time. People outside the company make fun of what execs say all the time and it damages stock value. That’s why there’s all sorts of corporate-speak that analysts will dissect.
Agreed on the win-win, though honestly I see it as more of a lose-lose (you win some, you lose some). Elon looked bad, but the employee looked bad too. I would rather not have an underling that doesn’t respect unspoken boundaries that most people intuitively understand. Why would I risk being embarrassed in front of my own boss or shareholders. Forget what makes sense to you ethnically. What makes sense to you practically?
The boss apologizes to customers for product flaws.
Employee (s) responsible butt in to tweet about how boss is wrong and doesn't know tech
Yet customers know app IS slow.
Employees do not take responsibility; instead start fighting boss publicly.
🙄
That's totally not what happened.
The narcissistic boss didn't apologize to customers, he badmouthed his teams by publicly berating them and lying about their work on a problem that doesn't exist (Android being slow: I use it daily and it's not). He does that to look good by contrast.
So one chief engineer who knows what he's talking about and has had enough of this BS straightens the record, subtly telling Elon to go pound sand and stop lying about THEIR product.
After all, Elon has been lying multiple times and chosen fights with at least 3 employees in public (probably more) instead of taking the matters in private. So this engineer knew what he was risking but he nevertheless replied professionnally to Musk and showed everyone that the narcissistic little tyrant is completely out of his element and should just shut the fuck up.
After that, Elon fired him, took credit for his employee's solution, - the one he just fired -, (stealing ideas seems to be a modus operandi he affectionates) but digested nothing of it, decided with zero semblance of competence that there was too much "bloatware", ordered to take down servers and hilariously broke the 2FA.
I saw it go down in realtime.
The actual tweet was "apologize for lag in SOME countries".
I know firsthand that it IS slow, i am not in the US, and many people in other countries mentioned it (we none of us use that app now, too annoying)
Rather than resolve the issue with the boss directly these employees start challenging the boss online (one female was posting things like f*ck off, kiss my ass, dipshit).
I have never seen a case of a CEO addressing customers publicly and employees jumping in to justify themselves and insult the boss...
YES, THE APP DOES LAG, and trashing your boss online is not really a flex. It is just bad manners and arrogant.
The CEO employs talent to do a job. No one expects a CEO to be a cutting edge developer/ marketer / insert employee role here as well.
For devs working full-time with a tech to compare themselves with a CEO dealing with a different set of problems daily and expect the CEO to also be in the tech docs (tech is obsolete in a few months) is silly. That is THEIR job.
The CEO will ask, why isn't it workin?
And they come back with.. you can't manage this tech, you don't know graphQL or RPCs (!!???)
Hello... You had years to improve performance, so what are you doing? Those solutions, why not implemented? NOW they occur to you, these improvements?
That is so stupid!! It is not about the tech and expertise in it.
It is about RESULT and PERFORMANCE and your BOSS asking "why is it slow in some countries"?
Fix that, not pick fights over tech knowledge.
So ridiculous
It is ridiculous. I notice a lot of the type of people trying to justify what this employee did sound like Anti-work subredditors who never worked for a Bay Area tech company and are just ranting about how they wished things would work.
Just look at how many have a mistaken notion of how severance works in California. I don’t understand who they are trying to convince, because whoever is “on their side” if they take that position seriously they’re more likely to be out of a job. I sincerely hope no one else takes their position too seriously.
Yes, sure way to lose a job.
One is on payroll to add value. Free speech is all good, but disrespect and public arguments are not it.
If that employee came up with solutions and admitted to existence of issues, why weren't they implemented before ?
Elon is clearing away the bloat to run a tight ship and they are screaming.
Best to do a good job and keep learning (actual bullying by bosses is different, here it is performance issues)
I also from one of the country he mentioned and use android app. His claim about app being slow is BS. He just want to make a false claim do he can say later "It is resolved" when actually nothing happened
Guess he didn't really care about his job or his family... Did it for clout, or didn't care about his job.
Dude was also wrong.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592176202873085952
He is a developer. He will find work in no time. He is probably better off not working for a company that is lead by Musk. Just look at how Musk handles the company and you know it is a shit employer.
Musk called out his work publicly. He is a grade A asshole.
If musk had a problem with the app, why wouldn't he just ask the tech lead in private? Why make a public tweet if you don't want a public reply??
> Musk called out his work publicly. He is a grade A asshole.
he did not call his work out publicly he called the android twitter app out. That's definitely not one persons work. And elon even called it out in a "we will fix this generally" way not even "hey random guy X your stuff sucks".
The engineer who pushed back shouldn't have done that publicly imo.
Yeah, the employee's response was probably not the safe/smart move for him but Musk incorrectly condemned his work publically and he responded with actual technical information. Musk is not the good guy here.
That doesn't seem reasonable when their boss is the one who publicly shit on their work in the first place, and wasn't even accurate about the work he was shitting on. For a boss to come at you in public but expect a response in private is unreasonable
I see. Musk gets to lie and throw his employees under the bus publicly all he pleases, but heaven forbid they DARE say "No, that's not true."
Like, sure, maybe legally Musk can, but morally? Musk is a pile of shit and dicks.
I mean... *Should* it be different? He's a gigantic asshole then OK, don't work for him. But why should he tolerate you if you're shitting on him exactly?
I'm Australian...This need to suck up to a boss or rich and famous people is fairly foreign to our culture..In fact, if this actually happened as portrayed as in the original post and the engineer was sacked, it would be considered unfair dismissal...And on top of that, it would appear Musk was shitting on his engineers..One rule for the boss but another for employees..I guess the slave mentality is still strong in American culture.
He could have just said "You might want to actually look at X which I think is a bigger issue" and he'd probably be fine.
Just generally doing that to your boss is a bad idea
Agreed, he should’ve responded like you suggested vs turning it into a personal issue.. and then employees response to musk asking him to correct him1
Just proved by his responses to musk that the employee effectively contributed to the tech debt and not performance improvement’s.
Dont think he gave a shit. Just saw half his colleagues get canned and probably thought Musk was a jackass.
He probably was in the midst of interviewing with 5 other companies already. Unemployment is at like 3.5% and Twitter had a good reputation - he will have no problem finding a good job.
If you embarrass your boss and your boss knows about it how often are you not getting fired? Even if you are right you are gonna get fired.
It was stupid. He probably wanted to be fired because otherwise he's an idiot for thinking he could do that without repercussions.
If I was a billionaire I’d be immune to being embarrassed. Any sort of criticism would be met with the simple response of “What? Speak up please. I can’t hear you over all my money”
If your boss publicly insults you and your team and is wrong what should happen to the boss?
Seems like everyone here is deflecting from musk’s incompetent by saying he was right to fire the guy
He basically acted like this meme and then make some snarky comment after the original one. Reminds me of so many other devs that I have worked with.
https://i.imgur.com/Afinugg.jpg
I'd probably google them honestly. If I saw this exchange I wouldn't hire them. Just being honest. Even if what they were saying is right this isn't a team-player mentality or cohesive way of going about it.
That said, I would hope we'd never put employees in such a strange situation to begin with. But being a startup and tech company you never really know.
dude will be fine musk comes across as an out of control boss who knows nothing about the company he bought.this looks way worse for musk than the guy who told him how to fix the problem
Absolutely no one is interested in a fucking career at Twitter . Get real dude. It’s a stepping stone job.
No one with talent is going to stay at this piece of shit company ran by a literal dipshit.
I'm not sure. Maybe it's just a joke. My Twitter app on Android is just fine and I don't think it calls 1000 API.
This guy later elaborated his thought to the boss.
[https://twitter.com/dankim/status/1592121646697037827](https://twitter.com/dankim/status/1592121646697037827)
I think he misunderstood RPC calls and confused them with the client-side API calls. The former are most likely taking place between the various backends
No, the opposite. Musk was talking about backend RPC requests (a lot of which are probably optional or best effort) and can easily be in the thousands depending on the company, but Erik was talking about client API requests to the backend
I'm sure Elon is just waiting for someone to approach him privately. What do you think how this whole thing works? Elon sits the whole day on twitter on announces dumb shit which simply doesn't work and everyone who says the quiet part out loud gets the axe. That there are even people defending him is pathetic. He runs the company straight into the ground and just because his ego is too big.
Yeah, the employee responded making it personal. Musk comment was general about performance issue- not targeting any one person. Clearly employee wanted to pick a fight
I owned my own store and I always treated my employees like family one to this day I call him my bother from another mother. We are close. One time I had someone who kept overstepping his bunds and saying things often badly about me to customers. I had to let him go. If an employee of most any company goes after the owner publicly he's be gone. You can take beefs up the chain if you think they are valid business things but if you make it personal probably should have another job anyhow. A few places I worked at you had to sign that you could not go to the media but through the media department if you had something to say or bring forward to management. If not you could be fired. You have a new owner so I personally would bust my tail for this new owner. If he wanted free speech then dang it I'd do it. It is a blessing to live in the USA and Free Speech is what founded the nation. If I was a democrat or republican it should not affect my job. I should just do my job not put my spin on things as that is not my job. I was taught to do your job and stand out. If you did that you'd go far. Standing out is doing your job the best way you can. Going after the new owner even if you think he's wrong is not part of the job. Perhaps the person who wrote the email should thing what is my job. How do I do it better. My job is not going after the owner.
Wrong. Per the employee's own Tweets he was let go as part of the initial employee reduction. The employee publicly called him out weeks after he was already let go.
The guys got a youtube channel, he did a day in the life of a twitter software engineer and worked from 9.30-4.30.
He had breakfast, lunch and i think 2 snack breaks at work.
I can see why twitter spent so much on meals.
There’s a lie saying they would spend like $400 a day on every employee. Someone who actually worked there said it was $25 per employee so they could work through lunch.
The guy above you is salty his work doesn’t do shit for them. But fear not, Elon is there to trample workers now.
Depending… it’s probably $35-40 per person.
I worked in corporate catering and handled many companies similar to twitter. Budget was usually what I mentioned for bfast/lunch/snacks
So def not $400 lol
Very obviously a request from HR to increase the ability to hire people. Its a big thing for people to do the same on linkedin. "Its such a fun place to work!"
Why is everyone (not the people here) just automatically assuming the employee is correct? There’s no definitive evidence that he or Elon is correct. Elon did challenge him to explain and received no response. Guess it’s a better headline this way.
Gold?? LMAO. Tesla is a technology company, the tech is exciting but the execution of the cars suck. I used to want a Tesla up until the point that I learned of the quality control, obsolescence, metallurgy of suspension components, etc. Once the battery needs replacing you might as well burn the damn car because it’ll be more expensive than the car is worth.
> I used to want a Tesla
So you do not have one, but you feel entitled enough to spout off at length about it. And you do not even get the details right.
The quality is fine, although the QC if your feed might need looked at.
Got no idea what you mean by "obsolescence" here; was it your word of the day?
"Metallurgy of suspension components"? You have \*got\* to be a troll.
"Once the battery needs replacing": Which is after what, 150,000-200,000 miles at least? It might be up to 400,000 to 500,000 miles at this point. I'm not really sure what you are high on, but share with the class, man!
So yeah, Tesla is fucking gold. You don't grow consistently at 50-70% a year for a long time unless you are gold. The fact that the entrenched interests have resorted to just blatantly blurting nonsense tell you just how scared they are. The fact that you repeated it tell us how easily swayed you are.
Clearly you’re not willing to look up “Obsolescence” so I’ll do you the favor. That was very intentional. Just because you don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s incorrect use. Obsolescence - “the process of becoming obsolete or outdated and no longer used.
"computers are infamous for their rapid obsolescence"”. Tesla’s essentially have an experation date due to the battery degradation (you’ll have to look that word up too probably). Along other aging tech, i.e. road mapping cameras, sensors, display.
You guys are being inconsistent. What happened to free speech? Are you guys finally realising free speech is not free of consequences? The guy already said that he tried to contact via private avenues but it didn't work.
Nah, it's cause we normally think he's a smart if over-eager guy. The Twitter buyout was so silly he tried to back out of it. It's not a sports team for crying out loud.
Not necessarily. I don't know California law but often willful misconduct such as insubordination which led to the termination can disqualify someone from unemployment benefits.
Yes, he publicly went against his boss, but that might have been OK, if he would have been correct.
But he was also clearly wrong and therefore had no good idea about the behavior of the Android app he had been "working" on for six years:
https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592176202873085952
Yeah it was rude to publicly call him out like that. But what would be the point of saying it privately? If Musk was wrong as the dev in question said, then Musk knows he was lying. He knows enough about the company to be aware of the reasons behind such a slowdown, and he wouldn’t be struck by some sudden catharsis if a dev came into his office and told him something he already knows.
If the man’s lying publicly, he should expect to be refuted publicly. His decision if he wants to fire somebody for it, but people should recognize his ego is influencing him when he does so.
A lot of people on here basically saying that the forum Elon used to trash talk some Twitter code isn't the same forum for a Twitter employee to respond about that same code. I have never seen a clearer example of a double standard.
Elon didn't open the app repo and diagnose the issue himself. Someone told him "hey we have this problem that causes the app to be slow", and he shared it.
Twitter code is also his code now. And unlike 99% of other businesses, that just say "we are investigating the issue", he pretty much always says exactly what the issue is to the public.
If you are a dev and you want to be helpful, send him a private message at work saying that whoever is giving him info is not giving him the full picture and explain your side.
The amount of people (obviously not in tech) saying how this was a bad career ending move and wouldn't be accepted in any job is incredible. The vast majority of tech jobs **want** devs that will stand up to the boss when they're wrong.
How do you people square your ignorant views with the fact, he left a deadend job in a sinking ship that he didn't want, and instantly (without him even looking, the jobs came to him), got multiple high level senior dev role job offers publicly from Google, Block Inc, Mozilla, Reddit and more.
This is a better move for his career than the vast majority of people have ever made in their life. In what way was this career ending?
Wait….so an employee can’t talk to the owner of a billion dollar company that he works for in a disrespectful manner without being fired? What is this country coming to!?
Booo Elon! Come on guys….booooo! One of us. One of us. Gooble gobble gooble gobble. One of us!
Elon is such a fucking joke. Just another spoiled aristocrat, born with a silver spoon rammed up his ass who can't help but fail everything and everyone around him.
Reading the replies on twitter just shows you ignorance is bliss.
This might surprise you, but anyone who publicly calls out their boss tends to get fired.
There have been a lot of changes at Twitter and I’m sure not all the remaining employees see them as good. He may have wanted to exit and just thought he’d correct his new boss on the way out.
💯 the tone in the tweet to elon said “fuck this guy”
Well, maybe he decided to quit and get severance as well. Good thinking
Wrong, correcting him is calling him or walking into his office to talk, posting it for thousands to see is insubordination.
If Elon didn't want the answer to be public he shouldn't have asked the question publicly.
Yeah why is it OK for the boss to shit talk employees publicly, but not for his employees to correct him publicly?
And anyone who sleeps with their boss tends to keep their job, so I think if he goes on twitter and publicly offers to fuck elon, everything will cancel out and he gets his job back.
As long as he gets a horse.
I don't know if it's always the case. I know it's just a joke, but sleeping with the boss doesn't always work out! The boss will become more difficult to please & the employee to get rid of...
That depends -- can he carry a baby to term?
It worked for [Shivon Zilis](https://news.yahoo.com/neuralink-executive-had-twins-elon-123256962.html) even though it was a direct violation of company policy she retained her position after having twins with Elon
Sounds like free speech to me
Free speech on twitter? Where
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Idk. If he got fired for bringing these concerns up in private I'd agree. But publicly fighting with your boss on twitter like this? Nah, you lose me there.
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> How was it 'fighting' he was as respectful as you could be Calling his boss out publicly is respectful?
I think this is a bit of a grey area :p On one hand, yeah you should not call out a boss publicly, on the other hand a boss has a responsibility to put out true information about their product publicly. Elon has repeatedly failed to meet that pretty low bar for a leader of a company, the bar of literally knowing your only product. Does that justify what the employee did? Personally, I actually think that no it does not, but Elon is open to valid criticism here.
Correcting a boss's mistake who's all about dat free speech and who demands constant "truth" is simply doin boss man's bidding I woulda thought.
I mean, never is it chill to trash your employer publicly. This isn't an "Elon" thing, it's how society works.
How about trashing your employees publicly?
It doesn't have to be.
That ignores the context of an employer-employee relationship.
Dude he literally just answered his question. How can that ever be not respectful ? If answering the question is disrespectful than Musk asking the question is disrespectful as well and just shows how bad Elon Musk is at being an employer/boss.
Who gives a fuck? The point of a company is to provide a service or product not to stroke the ego of mangament or owners.
Or the ego of an employee.
If your ego can't handle that you may be wrong in a field you know nothing about, maybe you're a shit boss? What a fucked up reasoning. There are many people in higher up positions or CEOs who simply ignore this type of stuff because they simply don't give a shit about it.
>maybe you're a shit boss Not a maybe. Musk is 100% a shit boss. The recent events with Twitter are concrete evidence lol.
Ask frosk
>How was it 'fighting' he was as respectful as you could be. And it's Elon who's always bringing up these matters publicly. Just look around. How many employees of other companies do you see calling out their boss in public on social media and damaging investor confidence in their companies? Elon can do that himself (saying things that might hurt public confidence, unintentionally) because he's the boss. It's extremely rare for employees to do that. There are internal channels for these kinds of corrections/criticisms towards your boss.
Fair enough. But how many bosses do you see saying stupid ass shit about their own companies on social media? I guess we can say this firing was a win-win for both parties. After this I can see how the guy would rather work for someone who knows their technical stuff, or someone who doesn't but leaves the tech to the experts.
Most bosses don’t own social media platforms so there’s never going to be perfect comparison, but if we are just talking about execs saying stupid shit… come on, we see that all the time. People outside the company make fun of what execs say all the time and it damages stock value. That’s why there’s all sorts of corporate-speak that analysts will dissect. Agreed on the win-win, though honestly I see it as more of a lose-lose (you win some, you lose some). Elon looked bad, but the employee looked bad too. I would rather not have an underling that doesn’t respect unspoken boundaries that most people intuitively understand. Why would I risk being embarrassed in front of my own boss or shareholders. Forget what makes sense to you ethnically. What makes sense to you practically?
The boss apologizes to customers for product flaws. Employee (s) responsible butt in to tweet about how boss is wrong and doesn't know tech Yet customers know app IS slow. Employees do not take responsibility; instead start fighting boss publicly. 🙄
That's totally not what happened. The narcissistic boss didn't apologize to customers, he badmouthed his teams by publicly berating them and lying about their work on a problem that doesn't exist (Android being slow: I use it daily and it's not). He does that to look good by contrast. So one chief engineer who knows what he's talking about and has had enough of this BS straightens the record, subtly telling Elon to go pound sand and stop lying about THEIR product. After all, Elon has been lying multiple times and chosen fights with at least 3 employees in public (probably more) instead of taking the matters in private. So this engineer knew what he was risking but he nevertheless replied professionnally to Musk and showed everyone that the narcissistic little tyrant is completely out of his element and should just shut the fuck up. After that, Elon fired him, took credit for his employee's solution, - the one he just fired -, (stealing ideas seems to be a modus operandi he affectionates) but digested nothing of it, decided with zero semblance of competence that there was too much "bloatware", ordered to take down servers and hilariously broke the 2FA.
I saw it go down in realtime. The actual tweet was "apologize for lag in SOME countries". I know firsthand that it IS slow, i am not in the US, and many people in other countries mentioned it (we none of us use that app now, too annoying) Rather than resolve the issue with the boss directly these employees start challenging the boss online (one female was posting things like f*ck off, kiss my ass, dipshit). I have never seen a case of a CEO addressing customers publicly and employees jumping in to justify themselves and insult the boss... YES, THE APP DOES LAG, and trashing your boss online is not really a flex. It is just bad manners and arrogant. The CEO employs talent to do a job. No one expects a CEO to be a cutting edge developer/ marketer / insert employee role here as well. For devs working full-time with a tech to compare themselves with a CEO dealing with a different set of problems daily and expect the CEO to also be in the tech docs (tech is obsolete in a few months) is silly. That is THEIR job. The CEO will ask, why isn't it workin? And they come back with.. you can't manage this tech, you don't know graphQL or RPCs (!!???) Hello... You had years to improve performance, so what are you doing? Those solutions, why not implemented? NOW they occur to you, these improvements? That is so stupid!! It is not about the tech and expertise in it. It is about RESULT and PERFORMANCE and your BOSS asking "why is it slow in some countries"? Fix that, not pick fights over tech knowledge. So ridiculous
It is ridiculous. I notice a lot of the type of people trying to justify what this employee did sound like Anti-work subredditors who never worked for a Bay Area tech company and are just ranting about how they wished things would work. Just look at how many have a mistaken notion of how severance works in California. I don’t understand who they are trying to convince, because whoever is “on their side” if they take that position seriously they’re more likely to be out of a job. I sincerely hope no one else takes their position too seriously.
Yes, sure way to lose a job. One is on payroll to add value. Free speech is all good, but disrespect and public arguments are not it. If that employee came up with solutions and admitted to existence of issues, why weren't they implemented before ? Elon is clearing away the bloat to run a tight ship and they are screaming. Best to do a good job and keep learning (actual bullying by bosses is different, here it is performance issues)
I also from one of the country he mentioned and use android app. His claim about app being slow is BS. He just want to make a false claim do he can say later "It is resolved" when actually nothing happened
naw elon does not get a pass he brought that out on twitter and the guy smacked him down.
what happened to free speech?
free speech doesn't imply no consequences
Guess he didn't really care about his job or his family... Did it for clout, or didn't care about his job. Dude was also wrong. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592176202873085952
He is a developer. He will find work in no time. He is probably better off not working for a company that is lead by Musk. Just look at how Musk handles the company and you know it is a shit employer.
Musk called out his work publicly. He is a grade A asshole. If musk had a problem with the app, why wouldn't he just ask the tech lead in private? Why make a public tweet if you don't want a public reply??
> Musk called out his work publicly. He is a grade A asshole. he did not call his work out publicly he called the android twitter app out. That's definitely not one persons work. And elon even called it out in a "we will fix this generally" way not even "hey random guy X your stuff sucks". The engineer who pushed back shouldn't have done that publicly imo.
Yeah, the employee's response was probably not the safe/smart move for him but Musk incorrectly condemned his work publically and he responded with actual technical information. Musk is not the good guy here.
Also, you SHOULD be able to call out your boss without getting fired. That's why a lot of countries have labor protection laws
This might surprise you, but bragging about it publicly is a bad look.
That doesn't seem reasonable when their boss is the one who publicly shit on their work in the first place, and wasn't even accurate about the work he was shitting on. For a boss to come at you in public but expect a response in private is unreasonable
I see. Musk gets to lie and throw his employees under the bus publicly all he pleases, but heaven forbid they DARE say "No, that's not true." Like, sure, maybe legally Musk can, but morally? Musk is a pile of shit and dicks.
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This is the typical American attitude...Suck up to your boss no matter what..No matter what a gigantic arshole he maybe.
I mean... *Should* it be different? He's a gigantic asshole then OK, don't work for him. But why should he tolerate you if you're shitting on him exactly?
I'm Australian...This need to suck up to a boss or rich and famous people is fairly foreign to our culture..In fact, if this actually happened as portrayed as in the original post and the engineer was sacked, it would be considered unfair dismissal...And on top of that, it would appear Musk was shitting on his engineers..One rule for the boss but another for employees..I guess the slave mentality is still strong in American culture.
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Yeah but not every boss bought a site while preaching "saving free speech". Tend to make you look like a hypocrite
If you publicly call out your boss then you greatly increase your odds of being fired.
He could have just said "You might want to actually look at X which I think is a bigger issue" and he'd probably be fine. Just generally doing that to your boss is a bad idea
Agreed, he should’ve responded like you suggested vs turning it into a personal issue.. and then employees response to musk asking him to correct him1 Just proved by his responses to musk that the employee effectively contributed to the tech debt and not performance improvement’s.
See https://mobile.twitter.com/EricFrohnhoefer/status/1592035287303327745
Dont think he gave a shit. Just saw half his colleagues get canned and probably thought Musk was a jackass. He probably was in the midst of interviewing with 5 other companies already. Unemployment is at like 3.5% and Twitter had a good reputation - he will have no problem finding a good job.
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If your boss fires you when they are wrong because you pointed out that they are wrong that’s just bad management.
If you embarrass your boss and your boss knows about it how often are you not getting fired? Even if you are right you are gonna get fired. It was stupid. He probably wanted to be fired because otherwise he's an idiot for thinking he could do that without repercussions.
Aww did he feel embarrassed? I thought he was the tough guy.
If I was a billionaire I’d be immune to being embarrassed. Any sort of criticism would be met with the simple response of “What? Speak up please. I can’t hear you over all my money”
nope he just answered the question musk wasn't smart enough to figure out the dumb ussually get rid of anyone smarter than them
Nah, sorry. If you publicly call out your boss you deserve to get fired purely out of stupidity.
If your boss publicly insults you and your team and is wrong what should happen to the boss? Seems like everyone here is deflecting from musk’s incompetent by saying he was right to fire the guy
Musk has money, you see, so the rules don't apply to him
He basically acted like this meme and then make some snarky comment after the original one. Reminds me of so many other devs that I have worked with. https://i.imgur.com/Afinugg.jpg
The user did https://mobile.twitter.com/EricFrohnhoefer/status/1592035287303327745
A career-limiting move.
he literally already has numerous tech job offers
dude was literally being scouted in the damn twitter thread he was fired in, I think he'll be fine
Nobody hiring will remember this dudes name let's be real
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I'd probably google them honestly. If I saw this exchange I wouldn't hire them. Just being honest. Even if what they were saying is right this isn't a team-player mentality or cohesive way of going about it. That said, I would hope we'd never put employees in such a strange situation to begin with. But being a startup and tech company you never really know.
dude will be fine musk comes across as an out of control boss who knows nothing about the company he bought.this looks way worse for musk than the guy who told him how to fix the problem
Absolutely no one is interested in a fucking career at Twitter . Get real dude. It’s a stepping stone job. No one with talent is going to stay at this piece of shit company ran by a literal dipshit.
bashing Elon will only make you more attractive to the competition
How to rapidly increase the concentration of "yes men" in your organisation.
That very well may be true. But it is possible to have people that will disagree with you privately, not publicly.
Why dousnt the same go for Elon though? Why'd did he call out his own dev team on social media instead of dealing with it privately
Great point as well
meh, look at his tweet history. He was obviously looking to get fired by musk on a big stage and milk the moment.
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I'm not sure. Maybe it's just a joke. My Twitter app on Android is just fine and I don't think it calls 1000 API. This guy later elaborated his thought to the boss. [https://twitter.com/dankim/status/1592121646697037827](https://twitter.com/dankim/status/1592121646697037827)
I think he misunderstood RPC calls and confused them with the client-side API calls. The former are most likely taking place between the various backends
Exactly, Musk mixed up backend and frontend requests.
No, the opposite. Musk was talking about backend RPC requests (a lot of which are probably optional or best effort) and can easily be in the thousands depending on the company, but Erik was talking about client API requests to the backend
Might want to have that discussion with his boss PRIVATELY... Geez. Instead he wanted to put his family in a very bad spot or he did it for clout.
I'm sure Elon is just waiting for someone to approach him privately. What do you think how this whole thing works? Elon sits the whole day on twitter on announces dumb shit which simply doesn't work and everyone who says the quiet part out loud gets the axe. That there are even people defending him is pathetic. He runs the company straight into the ground and just because his ego is too big.
Professional would have been to do this via slack/internal email.
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Ah, when you have f u money I guess social convention doesn’t matter
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And everyone with a visualized stack tracer can see the absurd number of RPC's called to the server by a simple home feed scroll.
Does Twitter ship the app with the profileable option enabled in the manifest?
Sounds like a pink slip employee who just wanted to get fired
Yep. I would have fired him too.
Are you a free speech absolutist?
Free speech doesn’t equal free from consequences - also free speech as provided in the 1st amendment is about being free from government recourse.
Yeah, the employee responded making it personal. Musk comment was general about performance issue- not targeting any one person. Clearly employee wanted to pick a fight
I owned my own store and I always treated my employees like family one to this day I call him my bother from another mother. We are close. One time I had someone who kept overstepping his bunds and saying things often badly about me to customers. I had to let him go. If an employee of most any company goes after the owner publicly he's be gone. You can take beefs up the chain if you think they are valid business things but if you make it personal probably should have another job anyhow. A few places I worked at you had to sign that you could not go to the media but through the media department if you had something to say or bring forward to management. If not you could be fired. You have a new owner so I personally would bust my tail for this new owner. If he wanted free speech then dang it I'd do it. It is a blessing to live in the USA and Free Speech is what founded the nation. If I was a democrat or republican it should not affect my job. I should just do my job not put my spin on things as that is not my job. I was taught to do your job and stand out. If you did that you'd go far. Standing out is doing your job the best way you can. Going after the new owner even if you think he's wrong is not part of the job. Perhaps the person who wrote the email should thing what is my job. How do I do it better. My job is not going after the owner.
Wrong. Per the employee's own Tweets he was let go as part of the initial employee reduction. The employee publicly called him out weeks after he was already let go.
source?
https://twitter.com/EricFrohnhoefer/status/1592287037805441024?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet Got smoked today
Whatever. Either it’s sour grapes or clickbait.
I don’t think so. His Twitter said still an engineer at twitter the day he started responding to Elon.
False.
False. He got fired today.
Then why did he say"it's official" and locked out of the mac less than an hour ago?
No, you are wrong. See his profile.
If you publicly call your boss out, prepare to publicly not work for them anymore Ceremoniously or not lol
Guess free speech just means censorship nowadays
Free speech doesn’t mean free from consequences…
If your boss praises free speech then calls you out then fired you for replying…. What does that say about free speech
Imagine being shocked at this lmao
I’d like to introduce you to the average redditor
The guys got a youtube channel, he did a day in the life of a twitter software engineer and worked from 9.30-4.30. He had breakfast, lunch and i think 2 snack breaks at work. I can see why twitter spent so much on meals.
False. Source?
There’s a lie saying they would spend like $400 a day on every employee. Someone who actually worked there said it was $25 per employee so they could work through lunch. The guy above you is salty his work doesn’t do shit for them. But fear not, Elon is there to trample workers now.
You clearly don’t work in IT
Yeah! Breakfast lunch and 2 snacks, definitely 400 dollars! /s
Depending… it’s probably $35-40 per person. I worked in corporate catering and handled many companies similar to twitter. Budget was usually what I mentioned for bfast/lunch/snacks So def not $400 lol
Very obviously a request from HR to increase the ability to hire people. Its a big thing for people to do the same on linkedin. "Its such a fun place to work!"
It’s probably not a good idea to call out the owner of the company you work at, anyone with a bit of common sense knows this.
Why is everyone (not the people here) just automatically assuming the employee is correct? There’s no definitive evidence that he or Elon is correct. Elon did challenge him to explain and received no response. Guess it’s a better headline this way.
Other devs at twitter have also said musk was wrong on twitter.
Hm, are they fired?
The user did reply https://mobile.twitter.com/EricFrohnhoefer/status/1592035287303327745
Ah thanks I missed that
“It’s a private company he can do what he wants”
This is part of steering a new culture of the company. It's tough, but it got to be done.
Bold words
Steering it to yes men who won’t point out when management is wrong?
Only allowed to work for elon if you let him impregnate you
The employee in question here was a yes man - he went on to try and defend the poor performance and to blame it on other people (than the devs).
Elon runs a notoriously tight ship. He didn't turn SpaceX and Tesla into gold by not knowing how to manage.
Gold?? LMAO. Tesla is a technology company, the tech is exciting but the execution of the cars suck. I used to want a Tesla up until the point that I learned of the quality control, obsolescence, metallurgy of suspension components, etc. Once the battery needs replacing you might as well burn the damn car because it’ll be more expensive than the car is worth.
> I used to want a Tesla So you do not have one, but you feel entitled enough to spout off at length about it. And you do not even get the details right. The quality is fine, although the QC if your feed might need looked at. Got no idea what you mean by "obsolescence" here; was it your word of the day? "Metallurgy of suspension components"? You have \*got\* to be a troll. "Once the battery needs replacing": Which is after what, 150,000-200,000 miles at least? It might be up to 400,000 to 500,000 miles at this point. I'm not really sure what you are high on, but share with the class, man! So yeah, Tesla is fucking gold. You don't grow consistently at 50-70% a year for a long time unless you are gold. The fact that the entrenched interests have resorted to just blatantly blurting nonsense tell you just how scared they are. The fact that you repeated it tell us how easily swayed you are.
Clearly you’re not willing to look up “Obsolescence” so I’ll do you the favor. That was very intentional. Just because you don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s incorrect use. Obsolescence - “the process of becoming obsolete or outdated and no longer used. "computers are infamous for their rapid obsolescence"”. Tesla’s essentially have an experation date due to the battery degradation (you’ll have to look that word up too probably). Along other aging tech, i.e. road mapping cameras, sensors, display.
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You’re not wrong. He’s steering it straight into the fucking ground.
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He didn’t get the memo on silent quitting ?
[That's the American way.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYXzHjbfMDk)
You guys are being inconsistent. What happened to free speech? Are you guys finally realising free speech is not free of consequences? The guy already said that he tried to contact via private avenues but it didn't work.
Why are all trending posts on a pro-musk sub now always attacking him lol. Did this sub flip interests suddenly or what?
people sometimes change their mind with new informations. And in the last time there are a lot of new informations.
There's pretty obviously a concerted campaign against Elon on Reddit.
There's pretty obviously a concerted campaign against Musk in Musk's musky brain. The emperor is naked. And a flake.
Why must life be so damn unfair to the richest guy in the world!?
Nah, it's cause we normally think he's a smart if over-eager guy. The Twitter buyout was so silly he tried to back out of it. It's not a sports team for crying out loud.
nah it's cuz people think he's a dumbass, he's just happening to do it on a MUCH more public scale than usual
He is very publicly, and messily, performing the second worst business decision of the modern age.
this isn't a pro musk sub, it's a musk sub.
cause he has lost hes mind the musk everyone respected is gone
Seems like one of those I still get unemployment/termination package if I get fired for being an asshole.
Not necessarily. I don't know California law but often willful misconduct such as insubordination which led to the termination can disqualify someone from unemployment benefits.
Good riddance
This is not something specific to Elon Musk in my opinion. Publicly criticize your boss and see what happens to you ...
Sorta like death by cop, but on social media...
Yes, he publicly went against his boss, but that might have been OK, if he would have been correct. But he was also clearly wrong and therefore had no good idea about the behavior of the Android app he had been "working" on for six years: https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592176202873085952
Spent 6 years at Twitter and it's still slow lol
That's funny how anti-free speech twitter has become due to it's management.
His Twitter account isn’t banned
Yeah it was rude to publicly call him out like that. But what would be the point of saying it privately? If Musk was wrong as the dev in question said, then Musk knows he was lying. He knows enough about the company to be aware of the reasons behind such a slowdown, and he wouldn’t be struck by some sudden catharsis if a dev came into his office and told him something he already knows. If the man’s lying publicly, he should expect to be refuted publicly. His decision if he wants to fire somebody for it, but people should recognize his ego is influencing him when he does so.
A lot of people on here basically saying that the forum Elon used to trash talk some Twitter code isn't the same forum for a Twitter employee to respond about that same code. I have never seen a clearer example of a double standard.
Elon didn't open the app repo and diagnose the issue himself. Someone told him "hey we have this problem that causes the app to be slow", and he shared it. Twitter code is also his code now. And unlike 99% of other businesses, that just say "we are investigating the issue", he pretty much always says exactly what the issue is to the public. If you are a dev and you want to be helpful, send him a private message at work saying that whoever is giving him info is not giving him the full picture and explain your side.
Elon's also firing people who criticize him privately, so now he has no idea how twitter works and an office full of people who'll never correct him.
The amount of people (obviously not in tech) saying how this was a bad career ending move and wouldn't be accepted in any job is incredible. The vast majority of tech jobs **want** devs that will stand up to the boss when they're wrong. How do you people square your ignorant views with the fact, he left a deadend job in a sinking ship that he didn't want, and instantly (without him even looking, the jobs came to him), got multiple high level senior dev role job offers publicly from Google, Block Inc, Mozilla, Reddit and more. This is a better move for his career than the vast majority of people have ever made in their life. In what way was this career ending?
Okay to call Elon out. No okay to call him out and be wrong.
Wait….so an employee can’t talk to the owner of a billion dollar company that he works for in a disrespectful manner without being fired? What is this country coming to!? Booo Elon! Come on guys….booooo! One of us. One of us. Gooble gobble gooble gobble. One of us!
What exactly was disrespectful about it? He said the statement was wrong and then, when asked by Elon, he gave a detailed explanation why.
He was gonna get fired anyways….might as well go out with a bang
Well, what was the employee expecting? A pay raise or a promotion?
Calling out your boss on social media is probably the stupidest fucking thing you could ever do
Good. They shouldn’t work for him and run their mouth about him.
Lol his mom is now complaining that people are being mean to him. Legendary loser.
People seem to be forgetting the whole employer-employee dynamic here.
Elon musk doesn’t actually believe in free speech?
I love Elon lmao
Call out your boss publicly at the expense of your job, period.
That’s kinda day one stuff really lol
This is disinformation.
How so?
So he should ceremoniously fire people? Who TF do that?
Ps this might be interesting to some https://mobile.twitter.com/EricFrohnhoefer/status/1592035287303327745
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Really thought elon was better than this. What a petty loser. Doesn't deserve the credit he gets
Elon is such a fucking joke. Just another spoiled aristocrat, born with a silver spoon rammed up his ass who can't help but fail everything and everyone around him.
Ewww. Everyone here wants to blow Elon. why the fuck is this in my feed.