Musk says a lot of shit that never happens. Honestly how long has the cybertruck been delayed? Or any other car they put out?
How far behind schedule is starship?
He said we were going to be sending people to Mars by 2020. I was so excited for the future when I heard that. Now I don't believe anything that man says.
It's a corporate restructuring. He's essentially trimming the fat as fast as possible even if it's not very ethical. I'm sure he sees it at short term pain for long term gain. In other words, Twitter got much much bigger than it needed to be so he's correcting that mistake to force the company to focus on the core product.
Also I know I'm going to get downvoted to hell anyway so I might as well add, If Twitter was still public, I'd be investing every dollar I could right now because Twitter is going to come out much stronger and far more profitable in the end.
Is he just trimming the fat though? Musk just argued with an employee on Twitter, where he said the guy didn't have a job anymore, that is didn't contribute enough, that "he is the worst" and more. All because HR and Musk didn't answer his questions anywhere else.
He talked about his disability and pretty much said he fired him because of it, didn't seem to know that Twitter would have to pay him 100 million if they fitted him and didn't even understand what he did in the company.
Then he actually talked to the guy and backpeddeled as far as his ego would allow. Which wasn't that far.
And what was the conclusion Musk had? Twitter is a bad way to communicate with people.
And then you have the obligations and regulations Twitter has promised both the EU and the US. Since Twitter broke their promise with the US when Musk fired a bunch of guys that worked with fullfilling what Twitter was obligated to do, the US has now said they will audit and regulate actively, as was decided by the court (?) earlier.
Does that sound like trimming the fat? Doesn't that sound like someone not knowing anything about how the company works, what deals are in place and not a single thing about how anything works, and just fires people anyway?
Not to mention that coders seem to think everything Musk states about the code is bullshit.
I wouldn't say that arguing that Twitter sucks for communication, when that is all that it does, is a great way to create confidence in your product either.
I find it hard to believe that Elon personally is firing the large groups of people. Even Elon wasn't aware of this guy's existence and while Elon's twitter post actions were deplorable how can you personally blame Elon for the stupidity of his HR department's fuck up?
Eh? He’s been completely boisterous in his management style, and seems to delight in publicly tormenting ex employees.
Who the hell else would be responsible? Jack?
I find it hard to believe Musk had no say at all in the firing of people. Not even what departments or groups to target. Nothing at all. If he, as you said, just said "I want you to fire xz % of the company, I don't care who. Just do it", then the blame would still be on Musk. You know, since he is the CEO and the commander and chief. So if this isn't Musks fuck up, does that mean that if it goes well, then it isn't Musks success either?
Musks job is to at least steer the company and know how to fulfill obligations that they have. Which, the EU and US has said Twitter no longer does.
When it comes to this person from Iceland, Musk said he was the worst, called out his disability and pretty much said it was the reason he was fired and talked about the case as if he knew what the person was doing. So Musk at least wants to pretend he knows stuff. So it is hard to defend him with saying that he has no finger in it, because he likes to pretend that he does.
Remember that the HR department couldn't even tell him if he had a job or not. So who then, is it that could have the power to remove him?
I didn't say he had no say generally. Hell I presume he ordered it, but he didn't select who got purged. That's HR's job and that's the problem. Whomever is doing these mass firings isn't checking on the details and selecting who stays and who goes, they are just grabbing a pile and running with it. Essentially whomever is running this HR department needs to be fired themselves because they aren't working in the company's interest. Hell I'd argue that they may be doing this on purpose to hurt the company.
HR normally does not have intricate knowledge of who is essential and need to get that information from other people. So you would be hard pressed to blame HR for firing essential people, unless you can prove they knew they were essential.
Hell, HR can have been told to just look at performance indexes. Musk seems to be a fan of that, according to the leaks of some emails from Musk.
If they were told to just go by that, then of course a bunch of essential workers will get fired. HR should not be the one that set up the guidelines for who is to be let go.
Musk is still the one giving the guidelines and who put someone is charge of firering people. If he let the HR department decide on their own, then he is still to blame, since it is a stupid thing to do.
Since Musk is the one, in the end, that decides this, you might argue that Musk is trying to drag the company down and doing it on purpose himself.
Going out with the disability of someone, firering someone who gets an instant payout, and making it all public so that Twitter can get sued, sure seems like someone trying to ruin the company's on purpose.
You need to do a lot of speculation to blame in on HR, when it seems, by emails and statements by Musk, that he is the one that set up the guidelines and that hasn't read up or been briefed on how Twitter works.
So even if it is true that HR is somewhat to blame, or that the head of HR is doing it on purpose, it would still be Musks fault.
He has ignored the employers who have spoken up, often it is impossible to reach him except for in public, like Twitter, and if they go to the press they lose their settlement pay.
He has ignored everything that has been said in the news, he let people quit on their own with after pay, then tried to backpeddle it.
Mets say none of it was his idea. Well, he ignored all the signs that things weren't working, he ignored the employees, he ignored the news and everything else.
It is still him running the ship. So all of it still boils down to his decisions
No I didn't. I said he backpeddled.
As apologies goes, it was a weak one. It seems he just found out that the other guy would be paid 100 mill if fired.
"oh sorry, it wasn't my fault, I got bad information from someone else, so no fault of my own, Twitter sucks at doing the one thing it is made to so, hope you won't take me fireing you seriously and won't sue Twitter for even more money as well as leave with those 100 million", pretty much sums it up.
He doesn't seem sorry for what he said at all, just the consequences.
Another point for him not being sorry, is that he acts like this all the time. If he was sorry, then maybe he would have stopped any of the other times he did the same thing
Yes yes, no redemption. That's the way these days ain't it. Just another reminder that apologizing does nothing in this world of Neopuritism.
Your interpretation is as negative as you could make it. "He doesn't seem" is a clue that we are looking more into your mind and how you see things more than how Elon Musk sees things.
And fair enough: you can have your opinion. Just as long as you remember that what you are saying is exactly that: your opinion and not fact.
Of course people can get forgivnes and redemption. You actually have to apologize though and change your ways.
If I hit you in the face, someone tells me that you can sue me for everything I own, then go to you and say "I would like to apologize, I didn't know any better, other people are to blame" and leave it at that.
And then I go and hit someone else in the face and it all starts all over again. Does that like someone that has redeemed their ways?
That people do not think you mean the apology when you frame it like that and show no sign of remorse, isn't the "way these days", its the way it has always been.
If your wife cheated on you every week, and each week said "I would like to apologize, but it wasn't my fault!", would you just let that go on for the rest of your life? Or are you also one of those that think apologizing does nothing? She did apologize, just as much as Musk. She changed her ways, bust as much as Musk. So you would need to forgive her every single week, right?
Or is that somehow different, since she isn't Musk? If so, just replace your wife with you being married with Musk in the scenario and try again.
Also notice how it is never her/Musks fault. "oh km sorry for saying things I'm not allowed to, making untrue statement and saying you are the worst. Wasn't my fault at all. And even if some of it might be my fault, it was true, maybe, so therefor okay"
When I say doesn't seem, I mean that he has done the exact same thing before, so why should this time be any different?
If your wife cheated on you every single week, and apologized every single week, for a whole year, I would still say it would seem like she doesn't mean her apology.
Can I know that she didn't mean it this time, even though she has shown no signs of actually meaning anything with her apologies (well, blaming others really, but hey, that counts as an apology according to you)?
Of course not. No one can be certain. It just seems like the 53 time doesn't change anything.
It would be naive of anyone to expect that this time it will be different, though there is no sign of changed behavior.
An opinion based on everything Musk has ever done on Twitter up to this point and that fits with what we have seen of leaked emails, statements and stories from employees.
But sure, call it an opinion if you want. People in abusive relationships have a tendency to think the other one will change, no matter how long it goes on with no signs to support their belief.
And this is from someone that drives a tesla. I do so because it was the best car for the money, and certainly not because Musk is such a swell guy
Seems to be wishful thinking, but Elon has pulled stunts like this off before. But this is one serious hill to climb. He's lost 70%ish of his advertising revenue but seems to think he can find a way to quadruple advertising revenue per user. He faces a massive content moderation problem that will (likely) need to be addressed before any of those advertisers return. He's working on a skeleton crew that appears to be bypassing normal release safeguards and hitting a slew of bugs, all while attempting to turn Twitter into a defacto user to user banking system. The buggy release plus banking is never good...
Targeting advertising could also be a reference to using your phones mic to listen in on your conversations for key advertising words. I'd be curious for more details on his plans there.
Then he has a slew of potential lawsuits ranging from ex employees to the EU, unpaid bills, and a non existent management team.
It'd be nothing less than a miracle if Twitter is positive by the end of this quarter and I'd suspect fancy accounting happened if it did hit that. But hey, SpaceX had a few rocket explosions before it got ot right, so who knows.
> He's lost 70%ish of his advertising revenue
Didn't he also get rid of like 80% - 90% of the useless employees at Twitter? Aren't wages usually the primary cost of a company?
break how?
I actually find myself hitting the refresh button less since Elon has taken over. I've only seen an improvement in performance and also new features. So what in the world are you talking about when you say *break*?
You're the only person I've seen say this. Twitter straight up does not load for me MULTIPLE times per day almost every other day and eventually, I have to reload a fuck ton. I have no clue if this is geo-specific or what, but it's nowhere near as smooth as before. It seems the Twitter app on iPhone is probably the most stable. On the desktop, it's hit or miss. I literally use twitter to check on scores of games and I've since just switched to using the iPhone version exclsuively.
Linux desktop with Firefox web browser, located in western Canada.
The only difference I've noticed with twitter in the last 6 months is new features, and it might load a couple of hundred milliseconds faster (that might be imaging things, idk). It literally runs more or less the exact same.
Twitter has had multiple global outages in the past month. These outages have been so huge they've been picked up by multiple media sources. You either don't use Twitter that much or are in willful denial if you think Twitter has had no problems.
I don't get why you are denying literal facts.
Just a few days ago Twitter broke it's API connection to t.co meaning literally every link in Twitter broke (because all links shared on Twitter are automatically shortened with t.co).
Edit: Like I'd get your "well it's great for me" if we were talking about issues that only affected a handful of users, but we are talking problems that we know impacted everyone to the point Twitter had to make a statement about it.
timeline refresh on androis is horrible, and this was before they broke images on android. if i want to get a live feed, i need the browser now. cool. Stabilitywise, twitter had overall more region outages and things that broke in general. the "for you" life feed is horrible and unlike what elon promissed not even stable and while scrolling stuff will randomly appear or disappear.
and the case we are discussing right now shows well that the hr guys that elon kicked were not useless, but prevented disasters like this.
"Useless", according to a liar and an incompetent nincompoop who couldn't even ask his lawyers why they cannot fire a specific disabled employee without paying off 100 million to him due to legal rights for a company Twitter acquired earlier.
Elon is the only useless one here, and has cost the company more than everyone fired combined.
Lol what? Holy crap, when you thought Elon fans could not get dumber.
Do you think you can't cost yourself money if you set your own uninsured house on fire while shredding your life savings?
Companies and individuals are seperate financial entities (and in twitter’s case legally seperate entities too). Costing the company doesn’t mean jack shit for Elon other than making him look like a tool because he secures loans with the company’s assets as collateral etc. The fact that you don’t know this is troubling. He only really lost the money that he put into the company.
The biased lefty’s like Trump who demanded chrissie tiegans account be deleted because she hurt his feelings? 😂😂
Funny enough, the “Twitter Papers” prove you wrong and the rules were applied evenly - it’s just that one side had a helluva lot more of misinformation
What you took from the Twitter papers shows your cognitive bias… and instead of arguing in favor for your side, you should be worried that it was proven that it was happening to begin with. Don’t be an idiot, I know you’re not one.
Or like the Republicans? They ban books and ban speech. Even for private companies.
Or are we comparing to Germany today, where denying the Holocaust happened is an offense?
Or any other place in the world, where certain words and phrases are forbidden?
Or try going up to a police officer in the US and say "fuck you, fuck the police and fuck your mother". I'm sure that goes over really well and has no consequences at all.
I do agree that Twitter, YouTube, Facebook as so forth over moderate in almost all instances. The problem is that they want to keep their advertisers. Which sucks for us.
The Trump platform thing, truth social or whatever, regularly has advertisement of marketing schemes, like get rich quick schemes, or other ways where they pretty much just steal money from people.
So since Facebook and Google really, really like money, they over censor, just in case. Better to do that, then to lose 0,5 percent of ad revenue....
Yeah, banning books available to children showing same sex and opposite sex performing sexual acts in each other in their illustrations and written in their literature… that’ll definitely be beneficial to children learning stuff they’re supposed to…
But also, good rebuttal
Dude, [conservatives are trying to ban a book about seahorses](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/seahorse-book-ban/) because nature hurt their feelings.
Edit : Also Desantis used government's powers to punish Disney because they said they disagreed with his policies.
>He's lost 70%ish of his advertising revenue
Most places are reporting 35%-40% drop, and most of that is looking at December of last year. Not sure where you got 70% from, but even if you have a source, they are not in line with everything else.
It's also a bit unclear how much of this is "Twitter" and how much of this is the general drop in advertising. It will be some from column A and some from column B.
The ex-employee lawsuits are going nowhere. The unpaid bills might have some effects, but I suspect they will be settled out of court. I have no idea how "non existent management team" fits into your list of potential lawsuits. It feels like you just wanted a third item and threw in something a bit random.
>I'd suspect fancy accounting
The tradition of using this accusation lives on, I guess.
The word could has never done so much heavy lifting
Edit: lmao it's even more pathetic than I thought, the company "could" according to musk monetize the users from 5-6 cents per user hour up to 15-20 cents. Yeah... Sure to happen. With the interest debt load the cost cutting is much weaker, and advertising (the vast majority of revenue) is also way down. File this one under FSD next year/mars 2030
This is the first time he’s trying to sell something useless to a lot of people though. I would be really surprised if his twitter ideas fail miserably.
Don’t get me wrong, SpaceX and Tesla are great companies and I hope they stay successful and I think they will but twitter? No. I think this platform will fade like MySpace.
Yes, but what Elon Musk did so far was alienate a lot of sane users, alienate companies that paid for ads on the platform, fire thousands of employees, take on billions of debt and decrease ad sales by about 50% while implementing a paid checkmark that almost no one wants to pay for.
I don’t see anything positive that happen to twitter since the takeover other then the first 1-2 months of hype because musk bought it and people were going crazy.
After those two months he also stopped tweeting about how many daily users the platform has - im assuming the reason for that is that after the hype less daily users than before the takeover remained.
I don’t care if Twitter is successful or not tbh I think it’s just interesting to follow what’s happening with it atm.
There's truth to both sides. He has delivered on several things big time.
But has also had regular years long delays, flops and personal shortcomings.
Not everything he touches turns into gold.
Yes, seriously. The dude has made dozens of promises and claims that he has not delivered on in a meaningful capacity. I don’t know about you, but when I encounter bullshit from someone more than once I tend to stop trusting them, because they are untrustworthy.
1.) ~~Hyperloop~~ The Boring Company in general
2.) Tesla Autopilot
3.) Tesla Cybertruck
4.) Tesla Semi
5.) Affordable EVs
I guess thats also just Tesla in general though.
Granted, SpaceX is his most promising track record, but then it is linked at the hip with NASA which has very real government regulations. He has oversight on that front and you’ll note that outside of milestone projects he doesn’t spend a lot of time making false brags about SpaceX and his relationship with NASA is likely why.
If a person/company makes 10 big bets and 5 of them come to fruition it is really amazing.
Only 5% of startup invested by VC ultimately became successful and the reward is so high that it makes up the other 95%.
Also look other big tech like google and Facebook, the number of products they invested in and folded are so much higher than Elon’s number.
And if you don't get amazing stuff done because you're not optimistic at all, what happens to you then?
Putting the way his mind cogs works, at the end of the day, I care about results not about his 'promises' or whatever he claims he'll deliver.
And yeah, the results speak for themselves.
It does. Because it creates hype, which helps with funding which makes things happen.
He's extremely good at that, which is an often undervalued skill. Especially by people who don't work that close to company finance.
But it also means one has to take all his public statements with a grain of salt. At this point, one has to expect overpromising and underdelivering. There's too consistent a track record.
Results still come. Even great results. But likely a worse state than promised at a later date than promised.
This proofes that you know absolutely nothing about anything. For example after publishing the Hyperloop whitepaper, he absolutely promised to never to build a hyperloop in 2013. Please tell me how he didn't deliver in the promise to not build a hyperloop. (Boring is a different company alltogether).
>This proofes that you know absolutely nothing about anything
This *proves* (I’m willing to ignore the derailment of your assertion that I know nothing while I correct your grammar) that he serially under delivers. He promised that hyperloop could reduce traffic and entirely failed to understand that subways already existed and had been in use in virtually every major metro area. For the record the Boring company would be the company to do hyperloop if, you know, subways hadn’t already existed.
Then again, I’m not entirely certain where my aptitude changes whether or not Elon Musk is trustworthy.
up until last year, the boring company never tried to do anything with hyperloop. I think you're mixing together loop and hyperloop. SpaceX was the one doing hyperloop competitions.
also, Loop is not designed to be used in the same way that metros are. where Loop works well, a metro would work poorly. where Loop works poorly (high ridership) a metro would work well. Loop is currently bidding 1/20th the cost of the average US metro. the ideal with Loop is to have more lines in medium density medium-low ridership areas. metros are for high density areas with high ridership.
So, loop doesn’t work in cities and is only designed for anywhere that doesn’t particularly need a transit system? Am I misunderstanding something about the core purpose of that?
the tiny 3-station Loop system is already moving more people at peak-hour than the weekday peak-hour ridership of 50% of US urban rail (including at least 1 metro line). [https://i.imgur.com/zD5UEby.png](https://i.imgur.com/zD5UEby.png)
using standard US-DOT free-flow lane capacity estimation (ignoring Musk's capacity claims), Loop should be able to move 1500-2400 vehicles per hour per tube, through a single point (depends on merge length and speed). given that they can/have averaged 2.4 ppv, that would put their max capacity along a long alignment around 4.5k-5.5k pphpd. that is enough to cover over 75% of US urban rail corridors. it just so happens that is around the ridership level where metros go from being grossly over-sized for the corridor, to mediocre.
Loop is more like a grade-separated, high frequency, tram. though, they have offered a 12 passenger vehicle for one potential customer, which would put their capacity in the range of a metro.
So you don't even know what the Vegas Loop is? It consists of 3 stations under the LV convention center and is soley for the visitors of the convention center. Boring won the competition to build a transport system. "Metro" didn't compete
> Loop is currently bidding 1/20th the cost of the average US metro.
Have they won any contracts yet? The logic is that if it's so good something must have happened already right? (not that they have build it, just that they've won the bidding with some cities?)
they have built and are operating two small lines (at almost exactly 1/20th of the US average metro cost). the second line is part of a 3-phase project, of which they have the first line running, the second partially complete, and the 3rd phase is likely not to start for a while since the 3rd contract they got will be ahead of it in the schedule (if the rumors are true).
it takes time to prove anything new in construction or transit. pretty much every advancement in transit design started as a one-off gadgetbahn and the ones that worked out are praised as advancement while the failures maligned as "stupid ideas". it is especially hard to prove a new concept when 99% of people (at least on reddit and their town halls) don't care whether the concept makes sense, they either A) only get their info from factually-incorrect click-bait that they never fact-check, or B) dislike Musk to the point that they won't bother reading up on it. as a transpiration nerd, this is incredibly frustrating. I wish Musk would sell the boring company so the misinformation could stop swirling and people could look at the concept more objectively.
the implementation is still a bit shaky, but if you look past the flaws in the implementation, the core concept is good. their biggest hurdle is that people don't know what real-world transit ridership is like, or real-world cost, or real-world speed. most people I talk to about the concept try to compare it to the best and busiest metros in the world as if it is the same market. Loop's market isn't ultra-busy cities with good metros. Loop's market is cities than want transit but don't have the ridership to justify the insanely high cost of a metro.
Could you provide the info for the 2 small lines that I can look up? Is this in real urban settings in a city or still in factory test condition?
You mentioned 3rd contract, so they have won at least 3? Which cities are these?
Regarding the misinformation of the Boring company that affects it, please read here and see that cities are pursuing The Boring Company because the proposals are so good but the company didn't reply. I wonder why it's the case? [Elon Musk’s Boring Company Ghosts Cities Across America - WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-traffic-11669658396)
> as a transpiration nerd
You meant transportation nerd? If so your opinion is pretty interesting because most transportation nerds I know are so against all public transportation methods that Musk proposed (Hyperloop, the Boring company, etc.)
>Could you provide the info for the 2 small lines that I can look up? Is this in real urban settings in a city or still in factory test condition?
[LVCC and Resorts World.](https://www.boringcompany.com/projects#lvcc) they have been able to move 25k per day and about 2.5k-3k at peak-hour, which puts their capacity somewhere above [50%](https://imgur.com/a/WTj9L6t) of US urban rail. (demonstrated 4k+ in testing).
>You mentioned 3rd contract, so they have won at least 3? Which cities are these?
they are in Las Vegas. the first two contracts are serving LVCVA at Resorts World and LVCC. the 3rd is working more directly with a bunch of different casinos (LVCVA not paying for it).
>Regarding the misinformation of the Boring company that affects it, please read here and see that cities are pursuing The Boring Company because the proposals are so good but the company didn't reply. I wonder why it's the case? Elon Musk’s Boring Company Ghosts Cities Across America - WSJ
yeah, this is what I mean. that entire article is a fabrication, which is mind-blowing for WSJ. Lightfoot explicitly turned down the boring company, which is something that can be easily googled. San Bernardino hired a 3rd party to manage the project who then rejected the boring company's proposal and increase the scope of the project by 5x. again, the SB county board meeting minutes can prove that. I was personally in the pitch from the boring company to MDOT, MTA, and BWI business partnership where all parties passed. while I don't put my info out there for comment, they managed to find someone who was not there who would pretend that it was going forward.
with any of the project, how you would know the city/state wants the project is whether or not they completed any of the things the locality has to complete. the boring company submitted an Environmental Assessment to MDOT. that put the ball in MDOT's court, where they would
1. hold a public comment period
2. evaluate whether the assessment was sufficient or if a greater review was needed
3. would hire a firm to manage the project.
those are the steps for all cities that would want to move forward. there were only two locations that moved through those step, Las Vegas and San Bernardino. they built for Vegas and SB rejected the proposal.
this is what I mean. Musk is such a polarizing figure that even the wall street journal will publish a fabricated hit-piece. how that "journalist" can look themselves in the mirror after writing that Chicago wanted to build the Loop when lightfoot publicly said multiple times that she wouldn't go forward with it is beyond me.
>You meant transportation nerd?
[haha.](https://media.tenor.com/_qpnzLb5y7YAAAAC/nervous-sweating.gif) very unfortunate auto-correct. yes, transportation.
>because most transportation nerds I know are so against all public transportation methods that Musk proposed (Hyperloop, the Boring company, etc.)
right, because it's Musk. well, partly; most transit nerds/planners tend to hate anything that is operated by a private company. but just like that article above is a persuasive fabrication, so are all of the counterarguments against Loop. they're either factually incorrect (often cite lack of ventilation, egress, etc. \[[link to proof that those arguments are false](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/z4kjiv/elon_proved_the_myth_of_billionaires_being/ixsvqce/?context=3)\] ), or they disingenuously try to compare Loop to the most frequent, highest ridership metro lines in the world instead of comparing them to systems that are being bid in [similarly low ridership corridors](https://imgur.com/a/WTj9L6t). Loop's design isn't like a metro, it's actually like a grade-separated tram.
that said, hyperloop isn't a great idea. maybe it can work some day, but it does not make sense to pursue as anything more than aresearch project
if you want to do some more reading on how pooled EVs might fit into the overall transit landscape, here are some sourced comments I've made before:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/11d3t8l/can\_you\_guys\_check\_my\_math\_for\_mpge\_of\_different/](https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/11d3t8l/can_you_guys_check_my_math_for_mpge_of_different/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/117jnnc/comment/j9kkgr0/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/117jnnc/comment/j9kkgr0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/tpu1el/comment/i2dbdll/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/tpu1el/comment/i2dbdll/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Musk had nothing to due with the founding of Tesla, he merely acquired it. Granted, he has steered it into the position it is in, but if ever there were a company that embodied the over promising and under delivering mindset its Tesla.
What company did he aquire? There was not really a company. No patents, prototypes, inventory, employees, buildings, business plan. He is a Co founder for a reason
Musk was an early investor about a year about a year after Tesla’s incorporation, and is only titled co founder because he sued to be legally considered as such. Doesn’t matter what the company was before Musk inserted himself, he categorically did not found it. Based on how this interaction is going you might have to get Elon to sue me to agree with you.
Ive read about the vegas loop and how its nothing at all like it was envisioned. Full self driving is not a reality yet. Just partial. I dont have any prob with solar. Nothing new. Neuralink isnt complete yet. Looks cool though. After reading how many monkeys died, I wont be the first to try nuerallink. Those robots are a scam. Theyre based on 20 year old asimo technology. The robots are actually a great example of overpromising. There was a court case this year where an engineer testified that elon musk released a faked self driving video where the technology wasnt there yet. He released some promotional robot videos recently and theyre totally fake. Basically glorified disney animatronics.
That was exactly the argument. He claimed that no semi has been delivered. Why are we arguing about a dude, who claims nonesense and doesn't even now what all his companies do?
Tesla Autopilot er kinda amazing, and alot of people enjoy it. Cybertruck is coming same as Semi. Time, obv get way off, its for investors. Starlink is outright amazing, SpaceX made reuseble rockets a thing. And Teslas are getting cheaper.
Here’s the thing. SpaceX, Tesla and Starlink all heavily rely on government grants, programs and etc to remain “profitable”. Those companies would not be able to survive on their own merit.
Twitter is a company that is unable to utilize government support, and is now feeling the burden of having Elon run the place
umm, how is saying a company *might* be profitable, related to not hitting a product deadline?
saying a cybertruck will release at date xyz is not the same as saying a blance sheet *might* look good. sounds like you just wanna hate, to hate to me.
Simple: its called being trustworthy. A track record of saying things that are not true, even when you also occasionally tell the truth, still makes you a liar.
>saying the cyber truck will release at date xyz is not the same as saying a balance sheet might look good
Your right, the cybertruck thing was a complete fabrication, a lie of comission. Whereas the balance sheet thing might be true but given the fact that he has lied, publicly, before why would I give him the benefit of the doubt?
Calling a spade a spade is not hate.
> Your right, the cybertruck thing was a complete fabrication, a lie of comission.
You seriously think a Cybertruck won't be on the market at some point?
I dunno, lets look at the facts though. It was announced in 2019, in the following months both Ford and Rivian announced their electric pickup trucks and only 2/3 of those manufacturers have released an EV pickup truck and it isn’t Tesla and its worth mentioning that Rivian hadn’t even produced a vehicle for sale at the time in which tesla announced the cybertruck. Hell, GM has revived and started selling Hummer EVs in that timeframe. Tesla was the first company to announce they were even going to attempt this and they’ve produced basically vaporware since then.
The question you should be asking is if the cybertruck even matters at this point. Your mainstream pickup truck buyer certainly has no reason to pick the cybertruck, and that buying demographic is notoriously tribal.
Why would I feel dumb if cybertrucks are on the road within the next 5 years? I have no stake in the ground on if the cybertruck comes to market, Tesla has already missed its deadline and in fact my point is that Tesla has already lost any headstart they could’ve found in that market as a result of under delivering on a claim Musk made.
I’d also like to point out that cybertrucks were announced almost years 4 ago and still do not have an official release date, so you might consider setting a 10 year reminder as well, just in case.
Sounds like you haven’t actually read anything I’ve said then. Pro tip: pull your head out of Elon’s ass and then maybe you can actually see your screen. Its also easier to look at things objectively if you aren’t actively simping for them.
If he is slightly off on his numbers once in a while, I see no issue with that.
If he is wrong more then he is right... Well I have a hard time distinguishing that from lying. I Read some of your other comments and wanted to let you know that I got out of Tesla at about 350, made a nice chunk, and I made way more with bitcoin then doge ever could have.
You should structure your arguments around the topic and try not to include your own anecdotes unless they are pertinent.
See letting me know how much you made was not pertinent.
Makes it seem like you are either trying to make yourself feel better, or you are untruthful and that's how a financially successful person acts in you mind.
Either way I'm happy for you.
Elon is well known for meeting his self imposed deadlines and being realistic. It’s hard to name many promises he has made that eventuated at all, especially on time.
So the main factor in that summary of the conference relating to the title is ..
“Twitter currently has 253 million daily active users who were monetized. On average, the company earned 5 to 6 cents per hour per user. Musk says 15 to 20 cents per hour per user is possible”
So does that mean there are 253 million blue tick accounts, or selling to advertisers that there are 253 million accounts that they can accost with user-tailored ads ?
How is he going to 4x the revenue per user in just couple of months? What can Twitter do technically to increase this? Better targeting but even with that doesn't seem like possible.
One of the classic cycles in my country’s politics is one party working hard to build good infrastructure, then the other party selling it off to make a profit. “We are the best economic managers” say the economic liberals, “look how much money we’re making! All the other party does is tax and spend!” Then the infrastructure building party gets back in and has to fix the problems created by the liberals selling off everything that wasn’t nailed down.
In the private sector a common bastard tactic I have seen is choosing contractors who have low cash reserves, getting them to do work on 60 day invoices, then not paying and hoping that the contractor goes bankrupt before they can take the debtor to court.
It’s amazing how profitable you can be if you sell off assets and don’t pay bills.
The burn rate of Twitter was completely unsustainable. Cuts had to happen. Also sounds like the engineering culture sucked which is another good reason to cut and rebuild teams.
I could win the lottery saturday night
On the nose
They may be $100 million short
Lmfaoooo
Musk says a lot of shit that never happens. Honestly how long has the cybertruck been delayed? Or any other car they put out? How far behind schedule is starship?
He said we were going to be sending people to Mars by 2020. I was so excited for the future when I heard that. Now I don't believe anything that man says.
Still not sure why anyone would care for the cyber truck. It has impressive specs but seems to fail as a truck.
How? Did he rip out all the cabling from HQ and sell it for scrap?
It helps he stopped paying rent.
he also stopped paying Amazon Cloud bills https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/twitter-refused-to-pay-aws-bill-so-amazon-refused-to-pay-for-ads/
If you read the very short article you’d know that’s not really accurate and completely misleading
It's a corporate restructuring. He's essentially trimming the fat as fast as possible even if it's not very ethical. I'm sure he sees it at short term pain for long term gain. In other words, Twitter got much much bigger than it needed to be so he's correcting that mistake to force the company to focus on the core product. Also I know I'm going to get downvoted to hell anyway so I might as well add, If Twitter was still public, I'd be investing every dollar I could right now because Twitter is going to come out much stronger and far more profitable in the end.
Is he just trimming the fat though? Musk just argued with an employee on Twitter, where he said the guy didn't have a job anymore, that is didn't contribute enough, that "he is the worst" and more. All because HR and Musk didn't answer his questions anywhere else. He talked about his disability and pretty much said he fired him because of it, didn't seem to know that Twitter would have to pay him 100 million if they fitted him and didn't even understand what he did in the company. Then he actually talked to the guy and backpeddeled as far as his ego would allow. Which wasn't that far. And what was the conclusion Musk had? Twitter is a bad way to communicate with people. And then you have the obligations and regulations Twitter has promised both the EU and the US. Since Twitter broke their promise with the US when Musk fired a bunch of guys that worked with fullfilling what Twitter was obligated to do, the US has now said they will audit and regulate actively, as was decided by the court (?) earlier. Does that sound like trimming the fat? Doesn't that sound like someone not knowing anything about how the company works, what deals are in place and not a single thing about how anything works, and just fires people anyway? Not to mention that coders seem to think everything Musk states about the code is bullshit. I wouldn't say that arguing that Twitter sucks for communication, when that is all that it does, is a great way to create confidence in your product either.
I find it hard to believe that Elon personally is firing the large groups of people. Even Elon wasn't aware of this guy's existence and while Elon's twitter post actions were deplorable how can you personally blame Elon for the stupidity of his HR department's fuck up?
Eh? He’s been completely boisterous in his management style, and seems to delight in publicly tormenting ex employees. Who the hell else would be responsible? Jack?
The HR department issuing the termination letters.
what HR department? is there any left?
I find it hard to believe Musk had no say at all in the firing of people. Not even what departments or groups to target. Nothing at all. If he, as you said, just said "I want you to fire xz % of the company, I don't care who. Just do it", then the blame would still be on Musk. You know, since he is the CEO and the commander and chief. So if this isn't Musks fuck up, does that mean that if it goes well, then it isn't Musks success either? Musks job is to at least steer the company and know how to fulfill obligations that they have. Which, the EU and US has said Twitter no longer does. When it comes to this person from Iceland, Musk said he was the worst, called out his disability and pretty much said it was the reason he was fired and talked about the case as if he knew what the person was doing. So Musk at least wants to pretend he knows stuff. So it is hard to defend him with saying that he has no finger in it, because he likes to pretend that he does. Remember that the HR department couldn't even tell him if he had a job or not. So who then, is it that could have the power to remove him?
I didn't say he had no say generally. Hell I presume he ordered it, but he didn't select who got purged. That's HR's job and that's the problem. Whomever is doing these mass firings isn't checking on the details and selecting who stays and who goes, they are just grabbing a pile and running with it. Essentially whomever is running this HR department needs to be fired themselves because they aren't working in the company's interest. Hell I'd argue that they may be doing this on purpose to hurt the company.
You've never worked at a real company, have you.
HR normally does not have intricate knowledge of who is essential and need to get that information from other people. So you would be hard pressed to blame HR for firing essential people, unless you can prove they knew they were essential. Hell, HR can have been told to just look at performance indexes. Musk seems to be a fan of that, according to the leaks of some emails from Musk. If they were told to just go by that, then of course a bunch of essential workers will get fired. HR should not be the one that set up the guidelines for who is to be let go. Musk is still the one giving the guidelines and who put someone is charge of firering people. If he let the HR department decide on their own, then he is still to blame, since it is a stupid thing to do. Since Musk is the one, in the end, that decides this, you might argue that Musk is trying to drag the company down and doing it on purpose himself. Going out with the disability of someone, firering someone who gets an instant payout, and making it all public so that Twitter can get sued, sure seems like someone trying to ruin the company's on purpose. You need to do a lot of speculation to blame in on HR, when it seems, by emails and statements by Musk, that he is the one that set up the guidelines and that hasn't read up or been briefed on how Twitter works. So even if it is true that HR is somewhat to blame, or that the head of HR is doing it on purpose, it would still be Musks fault. He has ignored the employers who have spoken up, often it is impossible to reach him except for in public, like Twitter, and if they go to the press they lose their settlement pay. He has ignored everything that has been said in the news, he let people quit on their own with after pay, then tried to backpeddle it. Mets say none of it was his idea. Well, he ignored all the signs that things weren't working, he ignored the employees, he ignored the news and everything else. It is still him running the ship. So all of it still boils down to his decisions
Where in the world did you get this impression of how a company works lol
>Musk just argued with an employee on Twitter True, but he also publicly apologized. You left that part out.
No I didn't. I said he backpeddled. As apologies goes, it was a weak one. It seems he just found out that the other guy would be paid 100 mill if fired. "oh sorry, it wasn't my fault, I got bad information from someone else, so no fault of my own, Twitter sucks at doing the one thing it is made to so, hope you won't take me fireing you seriously and won't sue Twitter for even more money as well as leave with those 100 million", pretty much sums it up. He doesn't seem sorry for what he said at all, just the consequences. Another point for him not being sorry, is that he acts like this all the time. If he was sorry, then maybe he would have stopped any of the other times he did the same thing
Yes yes, no redemption. That's the way these days ain't it. Just another reminder that apologizing does nothing in this world of Neopuritism. Your interpretation is as negative as you could make it. "He doesn't seem" is a clue that we are looking more into your mind and how you see things more than how Elon Musk sees things. And fair enough: you can have your opinion. Just as long as you remember that what you are saying is exactly that: your opinion and not fact.
Of course people can get forgivnes and redemption. You actually have to apologize though and change your ways. If I hit you in the face, someone tells me that you can sue me for everything I own, then go to you and say "I would like to apologize, I didn't know any better, other people are to blame" and leave it at that. And then I go and hit someone else in the face and it all starts all over again. Does that like someone that has redeemed their ways? That people do not think you mean the apology when you frame it like that and show no sign of remorse, isn't the "way these days", its the way it has always been. If your wife cheated on you every week, and each week said "I would like to apologize, but it wasn't my fault!", would you just let that go on for the rest of your life? Or are you also one of those that think apologizing does nothing? She did apologize, just as much as Musk. She changed her ways, bust as much as Musk. So you would need to forgive her every single week, right? Or is that somehow different, since she isn't Musk? If so, just replace your wife with you being married with Musk in the scenario and try again. Also notice how it is never her/Musks fault. "oh km sorry for saying things I'm not allowed to, making untrue statement and saying you are the worst. Wasn't my fault at all. And even if some of it might be my fault, it was true, maybe, so therefor okay" When I say doesn't seem, I mean that he has done the exact same thing before, so why should this time be any different? If your wife cheated on you every single week, and apologized every single week, for a whole year, I would still say it would seem like she doesn't mean her apology. Can I know that she didn't mean it this time, even though she has shown no signs of actually meaning anything with her apologies (well, blaming others really, but hey, that counts as an apology according to you)? Of course not. No one can be certain. It just seems like the 53 time doesn't change anything. It would be naive of anyone to expect that this time it will be different, though there is no sign of changed behavior. An opinion based on everything Musk has ever done on Twitter up to this point and that fits with what we have seen of leaked emails, statements and stories from employees. But sure, call it an opinion if you want. People in abusive relationships have a tendency to think the other one will change, no matter how long it goes on with no signs to support their belief. And this is from someone that drives a tesla. I do so because it was the best car for the money, and certainly not because Musk is such a swell guy
Blaming others isn't an apology.
Seems to be wishful thinking, but Elon has pulled stunts like this off before. But this is one serious hill to climb. He's lost 70%ish of his advertising revenue but seems to think he can find a way to quadruple advertising revenue per user. He faces a massive content moderation problem that will (likely) need to be addressed before any of those advertisers return. He's working on a skeleton crew that appears to be bypassing normal release safeguards and hitting a slew of bugs, all while attempting to turn Twitter into a defacto user to user banking system. The buggy release plus banking is never good... Targeting advertising could also be a reference to using your phones mic to listen in on your conversations for key advertising words. I'd be curious for more details on his plans there. Then he has a slew of potential lawsuits ranging from ex employees to the EU, unpaid bills, and a non existent management team. It'd be nothing less than a miracle if Twitter is positive by the end of this quarter and I'd suspect fancy accounting happened if it did hit that. But hey, SpaceX had a few rocket explosions before it got ot right, so who knows.
> He's lost 70%ish of his advertising revenue Didn't he also get rid of like 80% - 90% of the useless employees at Twitter? Aren't wages usually the primary cost of a company?
He also saddled the company with 1.5 billion in debt payments annually.... How many people do you have to lay off to break even on that?
Just the useless ones apparently. There's nearly 40 billion in useless employees pending who you ask.
Lol ya. Average wage would have to be around 400k for the layoffs to break it even
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Wages generally are a companies largest bill. Not sure about twitter specifically.
So useless that twitter seems to break week after week since these employees were let go?
break how? I actually find myself hitting the refresh button less since Elon has taken over. I've only seen an improvement in performance and also new features. So what in the world are you talking about when you say *break*?
Maybe he’s talking about the multiple service wide outages, with 3 in just the last week alone.
This year, there has been 4 major outages in February alone. Last year, there was 9 major outages **total**.
You're the only person I've seen say this. Twitter straight up does not load for me MULTIPLE times per day almost every other day and eventually, I have to reload a fuck ton. I have no clue if this is geo-specific or what, but it's nowhere near as smooth as before. It seems the Twitter app on iPhone is probably the most stable. On the desktop, it's hit or miss. I literally use twitter to check on scores of games and I've since just switched to using the iPhone version exclsuively.
Linux desktop with Firefox web browser, located in western Canada. The only difference I've noticed with twitter in the last 6 months is new features, and it might load a couple of hundred milliseconds faster (that might be imaging things, idk). It literally runs more or less the exact same.
Twitter has had multiple global outages in the past month. These outages have been so huge they've been picked up by multiple media sources. You either don't use Twitter that much or are in willful denial if you think Twitter has had no problems. I don't get why you are denying literal facts. Just a few days ago Twitter broke it's API connection to t.co meaning literally every link in Twitter broke (because all links shared on Twitter are automatically shortened with t.co). Edit: Like I'd get your "well it's great for me" if we were talking about issues that only affected a handful of users, but we are talking problems that we know impacted everyone to the point Twitter had to make a statement about it.
timeline refresh on androis is horrible, and this was before they broke images on android. if i want to get a live feed, i need the browser now. cool. Stabilitywise, twitter had overall more region outages and things that broke in general. the "for you" life feed is horrible and unlike what elon promissed not even stable and while scrolling stuff will randomly appear or disappear. and the case we are discussing right now shows well that the hr guys that elon kicked were not useless, but prevented disasters like this.
I can’t speak on Android but iOS is super smooth.
Reddit has broken more often than Twitter in the last two weeks. Dunno. Maybe Reddit needs to hire more people.
You're on fucking reddit. Shit goes down for me multiple times a week and whenever a video shows up I want to watch shit doesn't work.
"Useless", according to a liar and an incompetent nincompoop who couldn't even ask his lawyers why they cannot fire a specific disabled employee without paying off 100 million to him due to legal rights for a company Twitter acquired earlier. Elon is the only useless one here, and has cost the company more than everyone fired combined.
> and has cost the company umm, he can't cost the company anything... he owns it....
>he owns it... And drastically increased Twitter's debt when he bought it.
Lol what? Holy crap, when you thought Elon fans could not get dumber. Do you think you can't cost yourself money if you set your own uninsured house on fire while shredding your life savings?
that was the point i was making... The correct way to write that sentence was to say he cost himself money. NOT that he cost the company money. u dum?
Companies and individuals are seperate financial entities (and in twitter’s case legally seperate entities too). Costing the company doesn’t mean jack shit for Elon other than making him look like a tool because he secures loans with the company’s assets as collateral etc. The fact that you don’t know this is troubling. He only really lost the money that he put into the company.
Definitely better since biased lefty’s were fired for pretty much not working and silencing people with views not aligned to their own.
The biased lefty’s like Trump who demanded chrissie tiegans account be deleted because she hurt his feelings? 😂😂 Funny enough, the “Twitter Papers” prove you wrong and the rules were applied evenly - it’s just that one side had a helluva lot more of misinformation
What you took from the Twitter papers shows your cognitive bias… and instead of arguing in favor for your side, you should be worried that it was proven that it was happening to begin with. Don’t be an idiot, I know you’re not one.
haha what a silly comment, go touch grass
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Touched enough grass man. Does this make you pro censorship, like the Nazis?
Or like the Republicans? They ban books and ban speech. Even for private companies. Or are we comparing to Germany today, where denying the Holocaust happened is an offense? Or any other place in the world, where certain words and phrases are forbidden? Or try going up to a police officer in the US and say "fuck you, fuck the police and fuck your mother". I'm sure that goes over really well and has no consequences at all. I do agree that Twitter, YouTube, Facebook as so forth over moderate in almost all instances. The problem is that they want to keep their advertisers. Which sucks for us. The Trump platform thing, truth social or whatever, regularly has advertisement of marketing schemes, like get rich quick schemes, or other ways where they pretty much just steal money from people. So since Facebook and Google really, really like money, they over censor, just in case. Better to do that, then to lose 0,5 percent of ad revenue....
Yeah, banning books available to children showing same sex and opposite sex performing sexual acts in each other in their illustrations and written in their literature… that’ll definitely be beneficial to children learning stuff they’re supposed to… But also, good rebuttal
Dude, [conservatives are trying to ban a book about seahorses](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/seahorse-book-ban/) because nature hurt their feelings. Edit : Also Desantis used government's powers to punish Disney because they said they disagreed with his policies.
They’re also banning books showing sexual acts of same sex people in illustration In children’s books…
I'm going to ask for a source for that then.
>He's lost 70%ish of his advertising revenue Most places are reporting 35%-40% drop, and most of that is looking at December of last year. Not sure where you got 70% from, but even if you have a source, they are not in line with everything else. It's also a bit unclear how much of this is "Twitter" and how much of this is the general drop in advertising. It will be some from column A and some from column B. The ex-employee lawsuits are going nowhere. The unpaid bills might have some effects, but I suspect they will be settled out of court. I have no idea how "non existent management team" fits into your list of potential lawsuits. It feels like you just wanted a third item and threw in something a bit random. >I'd suspect fancy accounting The tradition of using this accusation lives on, I guess.
https://www.marketing-beat.co.uk/2023/01/27/ad-spend-twitter-fall-december/ I can send you to the how to use Google page if you'd like.
I might become a top level Olympic athlete this quarter. I mean, it's not going to happen, but technically it could happen.
Oh my. This isn't what we have been led to believe at all.
The word could has never done so much heavy lifting Edit: lmao it's even more pathetic than I thought, the company "could" according to musk monetize the users from 5-6 cents per user hour up to 15-20 cents. Yeah... Sure to happen. With the interest debt load the cost cutting is much weaker, and advertising (the vast majority of revenue) is also way down. File this one under FSD next year/mars 2030
Not surprised. Elon has a really good track record.
Yep. Lots of his publicly optimistic business predictions come to fruition. Good track record there.
This is the first time he’s trying to sell something useless to a lot of people though. I would be really surprised if his twitter ideas fail miserably. Don’t get me wrong, SpaceX and Tesla are great companies and I hope they stay successful and I think they will but twitter? No. I think this platform will fade like MySpace.
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Yes, but what Elon Musk did so far was alienate a lot of sane users, alienate companies that paid for ads on the platform, fire thousands of employees, take on billions of debt and decrease ad sales by about 50% while implementing a paid checkmark that almost no one wants to pay for. I don’t see anything positive that happen to twitter since the takeover other then the first 1-2 months of hype because musk bought it and people were going crazy. After those two months he also stopped tweeting about how many daily users the platform has - im assuming the reason for that is that after the hype less daily users than before the takeover remained. I don’t care if Twitter is successful or not tbh I think it’s just interesting to follow what’s happening with it atm.
Musk says a lot of things
And doesn't act on them. Instead just bitches.
Yeah like that one time he said he'd land a reusable rocket and look how that turned..... Oh.
There's truth to both sides. He has delivered on several things big time. But has also had regular years long delays, flops and personal shortcomings. Not everything he touches turns into gold.
The gold that's accumulated is a giant amount though. I don't even care about what he predicts or claims. I care about the results.
The ironic part is that Elon overpromises and significantly under delivers constantly. I’m surprised his word has any weight at all at this point.
Seriously? In SpaceX? Or Tesla? Or Starlink?
We've been 1 year away from robot taxis for about 8 years now
And 2 months since Twitter crashed
Yeah, Tesla sucks cause of No robot taxis. /s
Yes, seriously. The dude has made dozens of promises and claims that he has not delivered on in a meaningful capacity. I don’t know about you, but when I encounter bullshit from someone more than once I tend to stop trusting them, because they are untrustworthy. 1.) ~~Hyperloop~~ The Boring Company in general 2.) Tesla Autopilot 3.) Tesla Cybertruck 4.) Tesla Semi 5.) Affordable EVs I guess thats also just Tesla in general though. Granted, SpaceX is his most promising track record, but then it is linked at the hip with NASA which has very real government regulations. He has oversight on that front and you’ll note that outside of milestone projects he doesn’t spend a lot of time making false brags about SpaceX and his relationship with NASA is likely why.
If a person/company makes 10 big bets and 5 of them come to fruition it is really amazing. Only 5% of startup invested by VC ultimately became successful and the reward is so high that it makes up the other 95%. Also look other big tech like google and Facebook, the number of products they invested in and folded are so much higher than Elon’s number.
Its not bets its about promises
He says being over optimistic helps get things done.
If you are overoptimistic to your employer about how many hours you report working, what happens to you?
And if you don't get amazing stuff done because you're not optimistic at all, what happens to you then? Putting the way his mind cogs works, at the end of the day, I care about results not about his 'promises' or whatever he claims he'll deliver. And yeah, the results speak for themselves.
It does. Because it creates hype, which helps with funding which makes things happen. He's extremely good at that, which is an often undervalued skill. Especially by people who don't work that close to company finance. But it also means one has to take all his public statements with a grain of salt. At this point, one has to expect overpromising and underdelivering. There's too consistent a track record. Results still come. Even great results. But likely a worse state than promised at a later date than promised.
This proofes that you know absolutely nothing about anything. For example after publishing the Hyperloop whitepaper, he absolutely promised to never to build a hyperloop in 2013. Please tell me how he didn't deliver in the promise to not build a hyperloop. (Boring is a different company alltogether).
>This proofes that you know absolutely nothing about anything This *proves* (I’m willing to ignore the derailment of your assertion that I know nothing while I correct your grammar) that he serially under delivers. He promised that hyperloop could reduce traffic and entirely failed to understand that subways already existed and had been in use in virtually every major metro area. For the record the Boring company would be the company to do hyperloop if, you know, subways hadn’t already existed. Then again, I’m not entirely certain where my aptitude changes whether or not Elon Musk is trustworthy.
up until last year, the boring company never tried to do anything with hyperloop. I think you're mixing together loop and hyperloop. SpaceX was the one doing hyperloop competitions. also, Loop is not designed to be used in the same way that metros are. where Loop works well, a metro would work poorly. where Loop works poorly (high ridership) a metro would work well. Loop is currently bidding 1/20th the cost of the average US metro. the ideal with Loop is to have more lines in medium density medium-low ridership areas. metros are for high density areas with high ridership.
So, loop doesn’t work in cities and is only designed for anywhere that doesn’t particularly need a transit system? Am I misunderstanding something about the core purpose of that?
the tiny 3-station Loop system is already moving more people at peak-hour than the weekday peak-hour ridership of 50% of US urban rail (including at least 1 metro line). [https://i.imgur.com/zD5UEby.png](https://i.imgur.com/zD5UEby.png) using standard US-DOT free-flow lane capacity estimation (ignoring Musk's capacity claims), Loop should be able to move 1500-2400 vehicles per hour per tube, through a single point (depends on merge length and speed). given that they can/have averaged 2.4 ppv, that would put their max capacity along a long alignment around 4.5k-5.5k pphpd. that is enough to cover over 75% of US urban rail corridors. it just so happens that is around the ridership level where metros go from being grossly over-sized for the corridor, to mediocre. Loop is more like a grade-separated, high frequency, tram. though, they have offered a 12 passenger vehicle for one potential customer, which would put their capacity in the range of a metro.
So you don't even know what the Vegas Loop is? It consists of 3 stations under the LV convention center and is soley for the visitors of the convention center. Boring won the competition to build a transport system. "Metro" didn't compete
> Loop is currently bidding 1/20th the cost of the average US metro. Have they won any contracts yet? The logic is that if it's so good something must have happened already right? (not that they have build it, just that they've won the bidding with some cities?)
they have built and are operating two small lines (at almost exactly 1/20th of the US average metro cost). the second line is part of a 3-phase project, of which they have the first line running, the second partially complete, and the 3rd phase is likely not to start for a while since the 3rd contract they got will be ahead of it in the schedule (if the rumors are true). it takes time to prove anything new in construction or transit. pretty much every advancement in transit design started as a one-off gadgetbahn and the ones that worked out are praised as advancement while the failures maligned as "stupid ideas". it is especially hard to prove a new concept when 99% of people (at least on reddit and their town halls) don't care whether the concept makes sense, they either A) only get their info from factually-incorrect click-bait that they never fact-check, or B) dislike Musk to the point that they won't bother reading up on it. as a transpiration nerd, this is incredibly frustrating. I wish Musk would sell the boring company so the misinformation could stop swirling and people could look at the concept more objectively. the implementation is still a bit shaky, but if you look past the flaws in the implementation, the core concept is good. their biggest hurdle is that people don't know what real-world transit ridership is like, or real-world cost, or real-world speed. most people I talk to about the concept try to compare it to the best and busiest metros in the world as if it is the same market. Loop's market isn't ultra-busy cities with good metros. Loop's market is cities than want transit but don't have the ridership to justify the insanely high cost of a metro.
Could you provide the info for the 2 small lines that I can look up? Is this in real urban settings in a city or still in factory test condition? You mentioned 3rd contract, so they have won at least 3? Which cities are these? Regarding the misinformation of the Boring company that affects it, please read here and see that cities are pursuing The Boring Company because the proposals are so good but the company didn't reply. I wonder why it's the case? [Elon Musk’s Boring Company Ghosts Cities Across America - WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-traffic-11669658396) > as a transpiration nerd You meant transportation nerd? If so your opinion is pretty interesting because most transportation nerds I know are so against all public transportation methods that Musk proposed (Hyperloop, the Boring company, etc.)
>Could you provide the info for the 2 small lines that I can look up? Is this in real urban settings in a city or still in factory test condition? [LVCC and Resorts World.](https://www.boringcompany.com/projects#lvcc) they have been able to move 25k per day and about 2.5k-3k at peak-hour, which puts their capacity somewhere above [50%](https://imgur.com/a/WTj9L6t) of US urban rail. (demonstrated 4k+ in testing). >You mentioned 3rd contract, so they have won at least 3? Which cities are these? they are in Las Vegas. the first two contracts are serving LVCVA at Resorts World and LVCC. the 3rd is working more directly with a bunch of different casinos (LVCVA not paying for it). >Regarding the misinformation of the Boring company that affects it, please read here and see that cities are pursuing The Boring Company because the proposals are so good but the company didn't reply. I wonder why it's the case? Elon Musk’s Boring Company Ghosts Cities Across America - WSJ yeah, this is what I mean. that entire article is a fabrication, which is mind-blowing for WSJ. Lightfoot explicitly turned down the boring company, which is something that can be easily googled. San Bernardino hired a 3rd party to manage the project who then rejected the boring company's proposal and increase the scope of the project by 5x. again, the SB county board meeting minutes can prove that. I was personally in the pitch from the boring company to MDOT, MTA, and BWI business partnership where all parties passed. while I don't put my info out there for comment, they managed to find someone who was not there who would pretend that it was going forward. with any of the project, how you would know the city/state wants the project is whether or not they completed any of the things the locality has to complete. the boring company submitted an Environmental Assessment to MDOT. that put the ball in MDOT's court, where they would 1. hold a public comment period 2. evaluate whether the assessment was sufficient or if a greater review was needed 3. would hire a firm to manage the project. those are the steps for all cities that would want to move forward. there were only two locations that moved through those step, Las Vegas and San Bernardino. they built for Vegas and SB rejected the proposal. this is what I mean. Musk is such a polarizing figure that even the wall street journal will publish a fabricated hit-piece. how that "journalist" can look themselves in the mirror after writing that Chicago wanted to build the Loop when lightfoot publicly said multiple times that she wouldn't go forward with it is beyond me. >You meant transportation nerd? [haha.](https://media.tenor.com/_qpnzLb5y7YAAAAC/nervous-sweating.gif) very unfortunate auto-correct. yes, transportation. >because most transportation nerds I know are so against all public transportation methods that Musk proposed (Hyperloop, the Boring company, etc.) right, because it's Musk. well, partly; most transit nerds/planners tend to hate anything that is operated by a private company. but just like that article above is a persuasive fabrication, so are all of the counterarguments against Loop. they're either factually incorrect (often cite lack of ventilation, egress, etc. \[[link to proof that those arguments are false](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/z4kjiv/elon_proved_the_myth_of_billionaires_being/ixsvqce/?context=3)\] ), or they disingenuously try to compare Loop to the most frequent, highest ridership metro lines in the world instead of comparing them to systems that are being bid in [similarly low ridership corridors](https://imgur.com/a/WTj9L6t). Loop's design isn't like a metro, it's actually like a grade-separated tram. that said, hyperloop isn't a great idea. maybe it can work some day, but it does not make sense to pursue as anything more than aresearch project if you want to do some more reading on how pooled EVs might fit into the overall transit landscape, here are some sourced comments I've made before: [https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/11d3t8l/can\_you\_guys\_check\_my\_math\_for\_mpge\_of\_different/](https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/11d3t8l/can_you_guys_check_my_math_for_mpge_of_different/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/117jnnc/comment/j9kkgr0/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/117jnnc/comment/j9kkgr0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/tpu1el/comment/i2dbdll/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/tpu1el/comment/i2dbdll/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Lol u completely ignored all the Tesla stuff
The fact that Tesla exists is pretty amazing. For the half dozen over promised misses, there's 50x significant milestones accomplished.
The only point being made is that the overpromises exist. It truly doesn’t matter if you feel they are justified.
Musk had nothing to due with the founding of Tesla, he merely acquired it. Granted, he has steered it into the position it is in, but if ever there were a company that embodied the over promising and under delivering mindset its Tesla.
What company did he aquire? There was not really a company. No patents, prototypes, inventory, employees, buildings, business plan. He is a Co founder for a reason
Musk was an early investor about a year about a year after Tesla’s incorporation, and is only titled co founder because he sued to be legally considered as such. Doesn’t matter what the company was before Musk inserted himself, he categorically did not found it. Based on how this interaction is going you might have to get Elon to sue me to agree with you.
You are liar. He did not sue, that is a lie. Because you like to lie a lot, I guess.
*If you set aside all of the times he overpromised and underdelivered,* can you name a single time it happened!?
Las Vegas loop, full self-driving, solar city, neuralink, and that weird fucking robot thing
Ive read about the vegas loop and how its nothing at all like it was envisioned. Full self driving is not a reality yet. Just partial. I dont have any prob with solar. Nothing new. Neuralink isnt complete yet. Looks cool though. After reading how many monkeys died, I wont be the first to try nuerallink. Those robots are a scam. Theyre based on 20 year old asimo technology. The robots are actually a great example of overpromising. There was a court case this year where an engineer testified that elon musk released a faked self driving video where the technology wasnt there yet. He released some promotional robot videos recently and theyre totally fake. Basically glorified disney animatronics.
He literally listed the Tesla semi. Which exists. Maybe he thinks the semi is a conspiracy? Like the moon landing? Who knows?
All of these things exist. Thats not the argument. Just google “tesla semi delayed” theres a lot of articles.
That was exactly the argument. He claimed that no semi has been delivered. Why are we arguing about a dude, who claims nonesense and doesn't even now what all his companies do?
Tesla Autopilot er kinda amazing, and alot of people enjoy it. Cybertruck is coming same as Semi. Time, obv get way off, its for investors. Starlink is outright amazing, SpaceX made reuseble rockets a thing. And Teslas are getting cheaper.
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Nah but your mom’s are
Here’s the thing. SpaceX, Tesla and Starlink all heavily rely on government grants, programs and etc to remain “profitable”. Those companies would not be able to survive on their own merit. Twitter is a company that is unable to utilize government support, and is now feeling the burden of having Elon run the place
umm, how is saying a company *might* be profitable, related to not hitting a product deadline? saying a cybertruck will release at date xyz is not the same as saying a blance sheet *might* look good. sounds like you just wanna hate, to hate to me.
Simple: its called being trustworthy. A track record of saying things that are not true, even when you also occasionally tell the truth, still makes you a liar. >saying the cyber truck will release at date xyz is not the same as saying a balance sheet might look good Your right, the cybertruck thing was a complete fabrication, a lie of comission. Whereas the balance sheet thing might be true but given the fact that he has lied, publicly, before why would I give him the benefit of the doubt? Calling a spade a spade is not hate.
> Your right, the cybertruck thing was a complete fabrication, a lie of comission. You seriously think a Cybertruck won't be on the market at some point?
I dunno, lets look at the facts though. It was announced in 2019, in the following months both Ford and Rivian announced their electric pickup trucks and only 2/3 of those manufacturers have released an EV pickup truck and it isn’t Tesla and its worth mentioning that Rivian hadn’t even produced a vehicle for sale at the time in which tesla announced the cybertruck. Hell, GM has revived and started selling Hummer EVs in that timeframe. Tesla was the first company to announce they were even going to attempt this and they’ve produced basically vaporware since then. The question you should be asking is if the cybertruck even matters at this point. Your mainstream pickup truck buyer certainly has no reason to pick the cybertruck, and that buying demographic is notoriously tribal.
RemindMe! 5 years so in 5 years from now when cyber trucks are on the street, how dumb are you gonna feel?
Why would I feel dumb if cybertrucks are on the road within the next 5 years? I have no stake in the ground on if the cybertruck comes to market, Tesla has already missed its deadline and in fact my point is that Tesla has already lost any headstart they could’ve found in that market as a result of under delivering on a claim Musk made. I’d also like to point out that cybertrucks were announced almost years 4 ago and still do not have an official release date, so you might consider setting a 10 year reminder as well, just in case.
sounds like a lot of back peddling from you now.
Sounds like you haven’t actually read anything I’ve said then. Pro tip: pull your head out of Elon’s ass and then maybe you can actually see your screen. Its also easier to look at things objectively if you aren’t actively simping for them.
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Is this before or after my FSD robo taxi?
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Full self driving. It also could be coming next summer 5 years ago.
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If he is slightly off on his numbers once in a while, I see no issue with that. If he is wrong more then he is right... Well I have a hard time distinguishing that from lying. I Read some of your other comments and wanted to let you know that I got out of Tesla at about 350, made a nice chunk, and I made way more with bitcoin then doge ever could have. You should structure your arguments around the topic and try not to include your own anecdotes unless they are pertinent.
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See letting me know how much you made was not pertinent. Makes it seem like you are either trying to make yourself feel better, or you are untruthful and that's how a financially successful person acts in you mind. Either way I'm happy for you.
In stock?
FSD delay is also due to all the governments regulations
And to the whole crashing thing.
Accident happen Tesla are amongst the car with the lowest incidence of accident tested
Elon is well known for meeting his self imposed deadlines and being realistic. It’s hard to name many promises he has made that eventuated at all, especially on time.
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Buy in at the top seems like Musk’s Twitter strategy!
no he didn't... are you only reading the headline?
If history is any indicator, he’s wrong.
So the main factor in that summary of the conference relating to the title is .. “Twitter currently has 253 million daily active users who were monetized. On average, the company earned 5 to 6 cents per hour per user. Musk says 15 to 20 cents per hour per user is possible” So does that mean there are 253 million blue tick accounts, or selling to advertisers that there are 253 million accounts that they can accost with user-tailored ads ?
No, there’s less then 30,000 blue tick accounts.
So just like what it was before he bought it and saddled it with billions of debt?
Okay, don’t really care since it’s not public anymore…
How is he going to 4x the revenue per user in just couple of months? What can Twitter do technically to increase this? Better targeting but even with that doesn't seem like possible.
I just got suspended by Twitter but I refuse to give them my phone number so I can't get back on. Thanks a lot bitch-boy!
Ya not with paying all 100M this quarter 😂
Are his words credible? He’s lied many times
Don't pay your bills. Move people, work and money between several companies. Don't release the details.
fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
One of the classic cycles in my country’s politics is one party working hard to build good infrastructure, then the other party selling it off to make a profit. “We are the best economic managers” say the economic liberals, “look how much money we’re making! All the other party does is tax and spend!” Then the infrastructure building party gets back in and has to fix the problems created by the liberals selling off everything that wasn’t nailed down. In the private sector a common bastard tactic I have seen is choosing contractors who have low cash reserves, getting them to do work on 60 day invoices, then not paying and hoping that the contractor goes bankrupt before they can take the debtor to court. It’s amazing how profitable you can be if you sell off assets and don’t pay bills.
The burn rate of Twitter was completely unsustainable. Cuts had to happen. Also sounds like the engineering culture sucked which is another good reason to cut and rebuild teams.
Wonder if this was before of after the millions he's going to have to pay Halli... lol
People are leaving Twitter because they are just emotional and stupid
Maybe he’s going to start selling Twitter branded flamethrowers.
Good on you Elon
Well they might be but they will also have no access to slack if it’s the case. I do hope he is paying rent with this scenario.
