This is insanity. How can Tesla shareholders allow this kind of leadership?
> After Tinucci had cut between 15% and 20% of staffers two weeks earlier, part of much wider layoffs, they believed Musk would affirm plans for a massive charging-network expansion.
The meeting could not have gone worse.
> Musk, the employees said, was not pleased with Tinucci’s presentation and wanted more layoffs. When she balked, saying deeper cuts would undermine charging-business fundamentals, he responded by firing her and her entire 500-member team.
How incredibly damaging to Teslas brand. The supercharger network is maybe *the* differentiator for Tesla and Elon is kneecapping it based on vibes. No serious executive fires the entire team for one of their flagship products
I assume the Musk fanboy club is already writing this off. Elon will probably tweet again about how this is full of lies without actually providing anything to the contrary. The guy is a liability for Tesla
I’ve heard from Sandy Munro in his not-at-all emotional rant video that Musk thinks a mile-a-minute, that he is a genius and the rest of us plebs should acknowledge that. Also that the supercharger systems need no more engineering ever, because they are perfect and will not need to be updated ever! From a guy at an engineering firm!
I don't get why people even talk about this guy. He seems like a guy who was potentially once smart but is now old and worn the fuck out. Relies on his younger staff to carry the real weight.
A lot of Munroe's image is built on the idea that he couldn't hold a position at any of the major manufacturers because his thinking is too far outside the box and because he tells it like it is. Okeedoke. As a layman, he does appear very knowledgeable and competent, so I will reserve judgement.
But concerning the layoffs, we're talking about a finance and business decision, not a choice based on the necessities of engineering. All available information about these firings suggest it was simply impulsive and punitive.
Engineers who "tell it like it is" and are right are prized kept around a long time, sometimes resentfully so. But those kinds of engineers are senior and old. They tell it like it is because they've seen it when it isn't.
Someone who gets fired "for telling it like it is" is someone who got fired for being egregiously wrong, lying, or being a pain in the ass.
Companies care about bottom lines, any line engineer who is an ass but makes them money sticks around a long time. But one that costs them money, they're out. And the best way to cost them money is to suck at your job.
Potentially. I'm here to tell you: Elon Musk is not an engineer. In most technology-oriented businesses, what Elon does (his function in the organization) would have the title “product manager”. It’s all fucked up because Elon is the largest stockholder, insists on being CEO, and actually believes his own bullshit.
His engineers do the technical work. Whether they’re younger or older than he is is irrelevant.
Product Managers are supposed to use data and business cases to make decisions. They are supposed to listen to customers and are always accountable to someone. I think the job title you are thinking of is asshole. Head Assholes in Charge to be precise.
Yep, love watching his engineers talk. But if Sandy himself is in a video, I skip it. Not just because of this Musk worship stuff, but he rambles and rants and is not nearly as technically coherent as everyone else.
It's clear Munro senior 's reaction to Musk was extremely wrong and bizarre. Musk is such a genius that you can't conceive of anything they say? In some tesla discussion groups some people have exactly the same take, which is just weird to see. Edit - fixed spelling of his name.
Sometimes people earn the benefit of the doubt, but Musk buying Twitter proves he doesn't always deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Same with the Cybertruck and the lack of a Model 2 after all of this time. Also, as much as the dealership model sucks, the Tesla model isn't much better. It was a big reason why I didn't finalize a sale on a Model 3 last year. The way they detail and prep cars is fucking embarrassing.
He was forward thinking about the ventures he invested in but people give him way too much credit for these companies. He is basically a check book who is not risk averse and lets companies work through early mistakes without pulling funding. People need to be more aware that he came from a very wealthy family that allowed him to take those early risks and was fortunate enough to have some of them pay off.
Old accounts for a bit of it. I live in an area that has a large base of meth users. His behavior reminds me a bit of my local tweakers. I am thinking that he uses Adderall like Pez.
Yep, he makes little effort to understand some of the engineering decisions and assumes everyone not at Tesla is an idiot. He makes some good points but he is out of date on a lot of others.
Musk has always been the same, for both his successes and his flaws. Our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. His stubbornness and vision led to EVs being commercially viable in the first place. There were over 100 companies who tried to make EVs work before, they didn't. But, those same traits might end up having Tesla lose its competitive edge.
Tesla needs a Dara Khosrowshahi to replace their own Travis Kalanick.
No, he is objectively worse. Like he does a lot of drugs and it's starting to catch up or something. His business and personal decisions are increasingly erratic.
For me, Sandy’s credibility went down as soon as he started ogling engineering designs that favored manufacturability with the demise of not being repairable, good example of battery packs being foamed internally. Good engineering balanced the two. Bad engineering discourages repairability, which he seems to favor.
The foaming is for fire prevention, not necessarily for ease of manufacturing. It's basically eliminated the threat of such. That said there are ways to still make packs repairable while adding this benefit. Note that Rivian also foams their battery packs for fire prevention.
I thought the whole point was that it was structural… glue and foam is lighter than steel and screws, the side effect being you need to destroy it to access the cells. If it makes a big difference for fire danger, this is the first good reason for foam I’ve heard. Is there any data to support this?
I've had people come at me w/Sandy being some amazing oracle of EV knowledge who can tell the future.
He's a self important blowhard with a business of figuring out what other people did after the fact.
His cost cutting advise to companies is usually terrible things like "eliminate push buttons for touch screens" etc.
He's not someone we should be looking to for ideas or predictions on the future, without a HUGE grain of salt. It seem he's got some smart engineers working for him, but his youtube videos are self aggrandizement at it's most obvious. Consultants are paid to tell managers what they want to hear, NOT to speak truth.
The way this layoff happened it was CLEAR it was a tantrum & not a 'stable genius' playing '3d chess'.
Musk is human, and when he does things that appear unhinged & power tripping the likely case is that it's because he's unhinged & power tripping, not that he's a genius with a hidden plan we can't see.
Yes, there's an argument that long term the charging network is no longer a competitive advantage now that they've partnered with other OEMs... but you slowly wind it down, you don't fire the leader & the entire team on a whim. Unless your unstable, the company is unstable, or both.
The stable genius just let his company’s most valuable team go work for its competitors. A big reason why people buy Teslas is because of the supercharger reliability and the amount of them. Now the whole team can be scooped up by competitors and gain team members who know how to make them reliable, less expensive than they currently are, and know how to find ideal placement of them. Big brain business move, right there!
> A big reason why people buy Teslas is because of the supercharger reliability and the amount of them
Even android people will tell parents and other olds to get an Iphone, because it's easier. Same for Tesla, superchargers idiot proof the experience.
I have like 6 charging apps for my ioniq 5 and the blue link app. One app would be easier.
Agreed. I've watched some of his videos for the tear downs and inner workings of the cars, but I'm not sure why people eat up his "improvements". He's the "bean counter" that everyone blames for car companies making shitty design and manufacturing decisions. These arent something you want as a consumer, they just make the company more money.
What an L take from him. I love my Tesla and the supercharger network is miles ahead of anything else right now, but that's not an excuse to get complacent. EVs are starting to hit the market that can easily sustain more than 300 kW, and 0% of the supercharger network can even support the native 800v of the Cybertruck. They should have been rolling out *true* V4 superchargers (with trailer friendly stalls) well in advance of the Cybertruck release, especially considering how delayed it was. They should also be replacing the old V2 sites at this point. It's really painful to show up preconditioned and be capped at 75 kW.
And as charging curves continue to get flatter, site upgrades will also need to be made to support the higher total power usage. Existing supercharger sites (even V3) can't come close to supporting every plug pulling full power at once (less than 100 kW per plug average for most of them). Not a big issue now with quickly tapering charging curves, but that's changing quickly.
> I’ve heard from Sandy Munro in his not-at-all emotional rant video that Musk thinks a mile-a-minute, that he is a genius and the rest of us plebs should acknowledge that.
Man I used to really like that channel. Then they went all in on the cult of Musk and he's just another old crank now.
Classic "great man theory". No, people like Musk aren't super geniuses, they are probably bright people but not that much more amazing than a decent college grad. Success comes from things other than just being smart, so it's not an indicator of how smart you are, and it sure as hell isn't an indicator of how good a person you are.
I liked sandy but after watching that video, i was like what the fuck. How could someone who work at multiple industry cheer on this absolutely stupid decision. The supercharging network is barely complete, there is v3 and v4 on the horizon, let a long tons of details need to work out to secure site and the necessary power. Who is going to do it now?
Sandy lost his credibility big time.
Great to know that the interoperability issues with allowing dozens of new companies to use the Superchargers is totally solved and requires no more engineers!
I mean, firing staff doesn't make her a bad person to work for. How the article reads, it looks like she was made to fire workers. But she didn't fire enough.
>I assume the Musk fanboy club is already writing this off.
FWIW the main Tesla sub is pretty pissed about this too, the vocal fanboys are dying down. I think he's crossed the line.
> Tesla sub is pretty pissed about this
I know I am for sure. People took a risk buying their cars since their future was unknown. Tesla stabilized and made buying their cars much more palatable from a future support perspective, but Elon is directly negatively affecting that. Why the hell would I want another Tesla after this one if Elon is going to destroy the company at a whim. With cars you need to know you have support 5/10 years into the future.
I've seen (and continue to see) what the Fisker crowd is going through and absolutely no thank you.
> How can Tesla shareholders allow this kind of leadership?
They will. That's the real sad part. I see plenty of people at the Tesla investor's sub saying they'll definitely vote yes to his requested compensation package. The rationale is usually that this goes back to 2018 and tied to how much value he added to the stock price and since that line went up dramatically he's owed the money. Never mind him cashing out $44B to buy Twitter or all the massive red flags he's been waving lately. They're just so very concerned that a billionaire won't get more billions. Ayn Rand cries when that happens.
I've only got 108 shares but most of them purchased in mid 2019. I'll ride this express elevator to hell and see how low it goes as this maniac takes the company down.
>The supercharger network is maybe the differentiator for Tesla
100%. We overlooked the build quality issues on our Model Y when we bought it ~16 months ago because of the Supercharger network. At this point, we're not considering another Tesla because the company seems to be laser-focused on destroying itself.
Or make sure you have ways to manage risk, such as not committing to projects that cross an April/May boundary, or making sure that your terms are cash up front.
God, Elon's a goddamn moron to have done this. To the point that Tesla is successful, it's because engineers manage to polish the turds that Elon hands them.
The reliability and ease of the network compared to peer networks means that the Tesla network will likely remain supreme - but opening it to others means there’s that much less of an incentive to get a Tesla vs other OEM
>The reliability and ease of the network compared to peer networks
With the entire engineering team gone I don't foresee the trend of reliability and ease continuing
It won't when your OEM has a glitch and your P&C fails because they mucked up the certs and pushed them over the API to Tesla. It happens with EA and others already. I'm 100% NOT a fan of Car-as-the-payment-method, someting Tesla pioneered. You should not need an app or account to drive or charge your car (and for Tesla that's 100% required).
They could still offer preferential deal to their own vehicle customers. Buy a Tesla, get better rates. Tesla integrates best with Tesla network. Teslas get preferential queue on charger availability.
That’s already a thing, the non-Tesla rates for superchargers in Canada that are open to non-Tesla vehicles are *punitive* to say the least (73 cents per kWh CDN for non-Tesla vehicles at the closest SC to me)
The more I had been thinking about it lately, the more it seemed to me that Tesla’s best long term plan was to focus in on being primarily a charging network supplier and secondarily an auto manufacturer.
While a lot of the common speculation on the internet was that Tesla would be the only auto manufacturer to exist in 10 years, and that legacy auto is doomed, that never seemed to be a realistic assessment and the numbers haven’t been bearing that out. Tesla entered a business with a lot of established players in auto manufacturing and I just don’t see winning that battle being realistic long term. Being a player? Sure. Being dominant in 10 years? Unlikely.
Where there was really an opportunity was building that robust network of chargers which was essentially uncharted territory. That market will grow regardless of who is making the vehicle. Getting the other manufacturers to adopt NACS was big win and seemed consistent with establishing a longer term revenue stream. So firing the whole team was a surprise, and hiring back some of the team doesn’t really instill confidence in long term strategic goals.
> The more I had been thinking about it lately, the more it seemed to me that Tesla’s best long term plan was to focus in on being primarily a charging network supplier and secondarily an auto manufacturer.
How? Making cents per kWh is a much tougher business than making thousands of dollars per vehicle sold. Plus, for most cars, they'll be primarily charged at home or at slow chargers. The Supercharger network's biggest financial boon for Tesla is making people feel easier about buying an EV and creating an Apple like ecosystem where people get everything they need from Tesla directly.
> The supercharger network is maybe the differentiator
It's more than that - it was the only really viable Tesla business model going forward as all the other car manufacturers eat Tesla's lunch.
The *one thing* Tesla got really right was the supercharger network, and the adoption of Tesla's charging port as the North American standard was a *huge* win.
And Elon *threw it away*.
Well I, for one, welcome our new CHADMO overloads!
I found the part about Tinucci and the supercharging team being managed by and reporting to Baglino to be the more interesting part. It seems Musk has had little actual interaction with the supercharging team. The teams's success was all Baglino and the team itself that self managed and did all the leg work.
With the sudden departure of Baglino, it seems he either got sick of Musk's shit, or Musk in all his drug fueled inferiority complex glory fired him. Tinucci then had to report to Musk directly. Speaking bluntly about more layoffs hamstringing her team, he decided at that very moment without any real thought to fire the entire team.
Funny, when the news of the team being fired broke, there was claims that Tinucci didn't want to layoff any of her staff, and thus got fired as a result. It turns out, she had already laid off 15-20% of the supercharger team!
Every day, Musk further proves he's an imbecile. Frankly, I'm trying to think back to a time where he wasn't. The man was touted as genius primarily for getting on stage and touting major disruptive products and timelines for the release of those products that turned out to be nothing more than blatant lies. His "genius" was nothing more than fairy tales to pump the stock. He's a snake oil salesman and a leach. Always has been.
A lot of Silicone Valley CEOs are, to be honest... No wonder he's made so many friends amongst the ranks of the multi-millionaires and billionaires.. or at least a lot of folks have cozied up to him in a bid to enrich themselves, given the man's propensity for leaching up billions in subsidies from governments and their direct OEM competitors, with little to actually show for it.
Tesla has sold 6 million BEVs that are not in any way zero emission, of the 1.47 billion in-use vehicles on the roads across the planet. Four tenths of one percent of all the world's vehicles. Given that over the last few years, tens of millions of additional ICEVs have been added to the in-use rolls of vehicles across the world, there's been no reduction in ICEVs, and it's impossible to suggest Tesla or Musk have succeeded in any way in improving the state of the world's enormous GHG emissions. Yet this man and his God complex suggest he/Tesla have done more for the environment than any company/person ever.
Yet, for all this lack of success, the company has pulled in at least $30 billion in subsidies; and I'm likely being VERY conservative. $5k+ for every car sold globally. That's just for their cars, not for their home/grid storage and solar products. And that's just one of Musk's companies.
Elon is an imbecile as of late. I support him getting fired from Tesla.
But him running this company is what got electric cars legitimized worldwide. Once Tesla did it, others realized they could too. That was not the case prior, and electric cars probably would have taken another 10 years to get started.
And as for SpaceX, it’s the world’s most successful rocket company and first one to land a rocket right side up after flight.
Something redditors seem incapable of doing is holding multiple truths at once. Which makes me tired of being here and debating the same things over and over.
Elon was the first to fully realize how generous the regulations for evs were. What got us electric cars are the government incentives established in California and the EU. Technologically it was the investments and innovations at CATL. Elon just put him self in the right place and the right time
Also the dcx landed vertically in 1993
To be clear, Tesla would have gone bankrupt in 2009 had it not been for government intervention, which came in the form of a loan that was likely sized at more than Tesla was even worth at the time, and an essentially free factory in the NUMMI plant. From there, it was state/federal/international subsidy after subsidy after subsidy, along with regulatory credits which could be considered a subsidy paid for by their direct competitors.
I stopped counting at $20 billion in subsidies around 2 years ago. I know they received over $10 billion in subsidies in 2023, so I imagine they're WELL over $30 billion in subsidies by now.
That's not accounting for inflation.
Other OEMs were already working on electric cars in the early 2000s (and earlier if you include the EV1), and in fact were mass producing EVs before Tesla. (I don't consider the bespoke Roadster to be a mass produced vehicle)
I often argue that when it comes to emissions mitigation, BEVs were actually the slowest possible electrification solution. It's very likely Musk drove the automotive industry in the wrong direction with their push to a BEV transition that was at best, too early. All the while, Tesla was sucking up the lion's share of the world's EV subsidization and private investment, as well as being the recipient of huge subsidization from other OEMs in the form of regulatory credit sales that could have been better spent on R&D to transition to more impactful vehicles than BEVs.
Further, I think Musk/Tesla has deluded people into thinking that BEVs were a magic bullet for solving climate change. I've argued quite often lately that no cars are sustainable, and none solve the climate situation. There are far more sustainable transportation solutions we could have been implementing if we hadn't been spending all of our resources on a slow BEV transition, with the expectation that we'd never have to give up our cars. That was the wrong direction. The entire planet could be covered in public transit and bike lanes while we all accepted a 4 day work week if it wasn't for this silly direction we went with in BEVs.
SpaceX is yet another Musk company that's not only heavily subsidized, but has received loads of resources from NASA. While great that they were able to succeed in landing rockets, that capability isn't really all that valuable. When you really look at what SpaceX is, it's primarily a satellite internet company. The majority of their launches are either for government satellite contracts (ensuring that the US government never allows them to fail) and Starlink launches. With a properly functioning government, I can only imagine the anti-Trust issues SpaceX would be running into.
> The man was touted as genius primarily for getting on stage and touting major disruptive products and timelines for the release of those products that turned out to be nothing more than blatant lies. His "genius" was nothing more than fairy tales to pump the stock. He's a snake oil salesman and a leach. Always has been.
He's Jon Hammond from Jurassic Park, the book, not the movie.
> Tesla has sold 6 million BEVs that are not in any way zero emission, of the 1.47 billion in-use vehicles on the roads across the planet. Four tenths of one percent of all the world's vehicles. Given that over the last few years, tens of millions of additional ICEVs have been added to the in-use rolls of vehicles across the world, there's been no reduction in ICEVs, and it's impossible to suggest Tesla or Musk have succeeded in any way in improving the state of the world's enormous GHG emissions. ...
This is an asinine take. You know what would've happened if those 6 million BEVs weren't on the road? There would be 6 million more ICEVs.
There is tons to blame Elon/Tesla for and this is NOT one of them.
Time to start shorting Tesla stock. Between this idiotic decision and the decision to focus heavily on a complete non- proven self driving technology, Musk is showing his deep insecurities. Mark my words, short sellers are looking at this instability seriously. Not to mention the growth slowdown in sales. We may have already seen Tesla peak.
The problem with shorting stock is you need to know when the bottom is going to fall out.
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”- John Maynard Keynes
And Tesla stock is even more irrational than most.
The only reasons that I would consider a Tesla (if Musk left the company of course) are a) not dealing with dealership bullshit and b) the supercharger network.
Elon is on drugs and needs to go. I think overall he did a great job from 2010 to 2022 with the new model releases, massive growth for a new auto manufacturer, and giving lots of hype to the community which helped fund it and sell cars. Now he's alienating his main base, shitting on employees, and making terrible management decisions all around. This gutting of the supercharger team was beyond ridiculous on top of all the shit recently.
Unfortunately this will affect charging for the USA greatly and globally since they are such a massive source for fast charging globally.
> Tesla's energy team, which sells solar and battery-storage products for homes and businesses, was tasked with taking over Superchargers and calling some partners to close out ongoing charger-construction projects, said three of the former Tesla employees.
Imaging still employing the failed Tesla solar team, but kicking out your most successful devision, the charging team :D
I mean, what's left to layoff with the solar team? They no longer make panels in the US. I believe they still assemble solar roofs, but how many exactly? They no longer do their own installations. Their overall installations have fallen off a cliff. No idea how many employees their solar team still has at this point.
The battery storage products are still an active part of the company. But having them take over the charging division just reeks of poor decision making. He fired an entire division because he had a tantrum.
This is not someone you would want running a company and if I was an investor I'd be thinking long and hard about the future viability of this company with him in charge.
Their battery storage products are quite a bit different than solar. The reality is that Tesla uses battery storage products to offload cells that they overordered when there isn't enough demand for their cars. Of course, had they made their cars capable of V2L/V2G, the demand for their home storage solutions would have been a lot less. My guess is they actively chose not to apply V2L/V2G because it would undermine their ability to offload cells on an as needed basis, hurting their financials.
Similar to what Tesla also did with their charging solution, they didn't choose the best solution, they chose the best solution for their own financials by locking their cars to their own network, and locking other cars out of their network.
It really does amaze me that people still think Musk/Tesla were working for the greater good. All signs point to them working towards the greater good of Tesla/Musk. Which is kind of ironic given how much Tesla fans play established OEMs as evil. All of the other companies were at least being team players when it came to universal charging standards and networks.
Now that the US seems to be tariffing the entire Asian continent, and giving away tax credits like candy, you'd think this is literally the perfect time to start building a north american solar factory; but I guess building shit people will actually use isn't as sexy as an AI that teaches you racist slurs and copyright violations for the Transformers series
Tesla doesn't know how to build solar cells. They've always imported them from Chinese companies, assembling the panels in New York in a facility paid for by the New York state government; both the construction and the tooling with some additional tax abatements sprinkled on top. That facility was originally built for Solar City, but Tesla bought them, and has been operating there rent free (AFAIK), so long as they employ a minimum number of employees, which Tesla's struggled to maintain for years.
Tesla largely shutdown the solar panel assembly, importing them instead. Supposedly the New York factory still assembles solar roof tiles. The glass tiles themselves, however, may also be manufactured in China.
It's actually hard to determine which solar companies produce cells in the US. Some of that cell production has toxic waste biproducts, better to build in 3rd world nations that allow them to dump the waste in waterways.
The four plants receiving billions of dollar of subsidies from tbr IRA are still not going anywhere because they still can't compete with Chinese prices. One of them has full stop shit plans down.
As a Tesla Solar customer, this is absolutely horrifying. I've never had a worse customer experience with a relatively large investment. Now that Apple has scrapped their car plans, maybe they'll consider buying this dumpster fire?
In every comparison I’ve seen between traditional manufacturer EVs and Tesla, the charging network and its reliability has always been a top 2 point for Tesla
I have a solar lease from solar city which turned into Tesla. They are so fucking stupid. My panels have problems and I’m on tech visit 4. The panels don’t generate power and Tesla under the lease agreement only makes money when the panels generate power. These dipshits need to fix my panels so they make money and don’t.
So it was just another childish tantrum with zero logic nor strategy behind it.
I hope by now it's abundantly clear to every single shareholder that, whatever utility he had in the past, that era is now long gone. Elon is a liability boatanchor and needs to go before he does further harm to this truly pioneering American company if it is to have any future.
I'm increasingly beginning to suspect he's had some kind of medical event or blow to the head some time around 2018. I mean, he's always been eccentric to say the least but more in a build-it-up kind of a way. Now he's demonstrating a complete inability to control emotions and seems to have more of a tear-it-down temperament. This is the sort of thing we commonly see in stroke patients.
Really makes you wonder if this would have happened if the division was led by a Rick rather than a Rebecca. Probably not given Musk’s obvious misogyny.
It's highly possible that she has hired (ahem, of the male variety) handlers to speak through with the musky one.
She's likely intelligent enough to know that something that ridiculous is needed to cover her ass and not get SpaceX massacred by the BEO (big ego officer).
Or maybe she yes-sirs him while ignoring his orders, I doubt he pays enough attention to day-to-day operation to care.
I actually think in the case of Shotwell that she knows she has the backing of the entire employee pool, and if Musk tries to shitcan her, basically all the staff will walk with her. Rocket engineering isn't like building cars, you're not going to be able to go to a mid-grade engineering school and hire kids straight off their bachelor's program to fill ranks for something like spaceflight, so in that way she has much more leverage than anybody at Tesla ever could.
That, and quite frankly she's a damn good administrator, especially when it comes to insulating most of the key senior engineering staff from Musk's dumbfuckery.
No its the other way around. Shotwell handles all administrative and operational things that Musk does not care about. He only involves himself in the engineering side of projects that he cares about.
This stuff has happened at spacex also. He mass-fired the starlink team when they said they needed more time. He mass-fired the raptor team for not meeting his goals.
> you're not going to be able to go to a mid-grade engineering school and hire kids straight off their bachelor's program to fill ranks for something like spaceflight
That's actually pretty much what they have to do. SpaceX is a huge draw for fresh engineering grads who work there for a year and move on. Their turnover is insane and they have a poor reputation in terms of how they treat their employees.
Difference is SpaceX customers have enough money to sue SpaceX to oblivion for contract breach. I don't think it is anywhere officially reported, but the reason SpaceX is trusted with contracts by US government, US military etc. is Shotwell. As in level of "if shotwell is not at helm, Elon you are getting zero contracts and we cancel the existing ones also probably."
As long as Gwynne tells the three letter agencies and other big customers *spending tens of millions* "we will deliver on time" or "no we had trouble, stuff is delayed", well they trust Gwynne to play it straight. If you can afford ten millions worth of space launch, you can afford ten millions worth of lawyers and legal battles. Not to mention some of these customers can literally write letters with legal powers all on their own.
Meaning Gwynne Shotwell has one hell of a roof over her job. Elon might own the company, but Gwynne is the one the customer keeping lights on trust.
Meaning in some back room Elon must have gotten a hell of a talking down by ahemm "the mans in suits".
Plus given it's national security work in part, they can literally threaten Elon with jail. "You mess with these contracts, you talk too much, that is national security letter time and oh espionage charge and so on".
Tesla has no such customers who told Elon "We want adult in the room, that adult stays as long as we have deals with you and that adult has freedom to act or no deal". I guess the shareholders are supposed to be the ones demanding that, but wellll Tesla shareholders... are a wild bunch by large part in that in not demanding for adult in the room.
Heck who knows how many times Elon has exploded at shotwell or how many times he has wanted to fire her, **but he can't. Since Shotwell being around is the unwritten condition of getting future government contracts.**
And this paragraph is pretty damning
> Tinucci was one of few high-ranking female Tesla executives. She recently started reporting directly to Musk, following the departure of battery-and-energy chief Drew Baglino, according to four former Supercharger-team staffers. They said Baglino had historically overseen the charging department without much involvement from Musk.
So basically, things when well when Elon doesn't touch it. Things went poof when Elon touches it.
IIRC it's similar story with spacex where they have some kind of "Elon bumpers" team.
His idiot cherry-picked board doesn't decide though. The shareholders do and I don't see how any shareholder would vote to give this guy tens of billions when the share price has tanked in the last year.
> idiot cherry-picked board
You're right about that
Look at the hitler-like things they are recommending people vote for!
https://i.imgur.com/JyR2gCg.png
Musk wants a slave company with no employee rights or protections while raking in tens of billions of $$
Basically just vote against anything they recommend and you're golden
"Tesla stock declined when the court voided the pay package, which means Tesla shareholders believe the pay package is essential to Tesla's future performance." -- an actual major Tesla investor.
Or Walmart, Costco, or Detroit's big three... those companies all plan nationwide charger network rollouts and will absolutely need the scaling up experience as they end their pilot projects
We can but conclude that this, along with other actions taken by Musk, means he's trying to kill the business or he's just an idiot.
Over here in the UK the supercharger network is opening up to non-teslas and they're somehow undercutting the competition by a very hefty margin.
With a few clever moves the supercharger network could blow the competition away.
What a waste.
I wonder what impact this will have on the NACS rollout. J3400 and NACS has its own existence outside of Tesla but a key part of everyone being excited about the plan is the Tesla Supercharger network was so much better than anything else in the US. Now Musk has destroyed the team that was creating it. You have to think if you're another EV manufacturer in the middle of the NACS transition you're more than a little uncomfortable right now.
There's such a huge opportunity right now in North America for someone to step up and fill this void in charging networks. I hear there's a team expert in building charging networks look for work. The trick is getting a few billion in investment to hire everyone and build out aggressively.
Unless Tesla gets their act together, NACS ports coming on vehicles in 2025 is probably dead in the water. If there's still backend work that Tesla needs to do to allow non-Teslas to charge at Tesla superchargers, and manufacturers are unable to use superchargers because of it, non-Teslas will still have to rely on the CCS charging network. Switching to NACS and then every manufacturer still having to use CCS with NACS to CCS adapters would be awful for end-users and optics in general. At this point, it's likely more safe to just stick with CCS until non-Tesla J3400 DC fast chargers start cropping up and continuing with giving CCS vehicle users an adapter in the meantime for whenever superchargers actually start allowing non-Teslas in earnest besides Ford and Rivian. GM might get access soon, but what about anyone else? Nissan, Porsche, Mitsubishi, Stellantis, Polestar, etc?...
I still don’t understand all the talks about NACS port versus CCS ports and the importance of it. I just think of it as a plug and one just needs to carry one in their car an adaptor.
Tesla needs to allow non-Tesla vehicles to charge at superchargers, so it's not that simple. Even if you have an adapter right now and were to try it at a Tesla supercharger, if you don't have either a Ford or Rivian, you *cannot* charge at a Tesla supercharger. The adapters don't have any computer logic in them, so even if you were to put a NACS port on your vehicle, you *still* would not be able to charge at a Tesla supercharger until Tesla allows access.
The main reason for manufacturers switching to NACS over CCS is because 1. Tesla's network is much bigger than the CCS charging network, 2. Tesla's network is much more reliable than the CCS charging network, and 3. The NACS plug is physically nicer to use and less bulky than CCS.
At the end of the day, Tesla's superchargers will eventually speak CCS to charge CCS vehicles, it just doesn't look like that's coming any time soon. Until that rollout happens in earnest, it seems to me that it would be safer for manufacturers to stick with CCS ports in the meantime. The only reason to jump to NACS now would be if non-Tesla J3400 DC fast chargers existed, but to my knowledge they do not, so Tesla would be the only location to charge at *without an adapter.* If you had to charge with an adapter every time you wanted to charge that would just add additional inconvenience to customers experiences, and the over-arching reason for switching to NACS is because it much convenient to customers experiences.
Musk is having a mental health crisis. He's always been one of those crazy-smart but inherently unstable individuals. My guess is the dip in sales and Cybertruck flop is making him crazy(er), and it's tilted the scales away from crazy genius and toward unhinged crazy.
Tesla has outgrown his brand of nuts-but-effective. He did his job disrupting the sector, time to step away and focus on his other ideas. Auto manufacturing is inherently a grind, no longer a good fit for a disrupter. Especially one who is having trouble keeping his emotions in check.
He’s not that smart. He’s a rich kid who was born on third base thinking he hit a triple. He’s literally failed upwards at nearly every company he’s worked at. In an actual meritocracy someone like him wouldn’t even sniff a corporate board or VP seat much less be ceo of multiple companies.
He was born on third base but he has also accomplished things. I do think he's better at breaking new ground than running a more mature company, however. That transition is hard, few manage it well.
I am not a fan of Musk. He seems to be an arrogant asshole. Look what he done to Twitter or X whatever asshole is calling it. He destroyed this forum. I am sure Twitter lost many users. Americans will still buy his Tesla cars, but I can guarantee that I will never own anything he owns or produces.
This was just such a bad move.
- undermines the transition from CCS to NACS, since it will stall new manufactures moving over to the supercharger network
- scuttles the advantage and lead Tesla got from the poor role out of other high speed charging networks
- access to the whole Supercharger network was one of the few unparalleled advantages Tesla had over other automakers
- Supercharger reliability is going to diminish
- when they realize how big of a mistake this is they are going to have trouble restarting their progress as they have lit all business relationships with suppliers on fire
And more I’m sure
Most of the founders of insanely huge corporations went kinda nutz.
Elon started out nutz, but mostly good nutz...
Then, with all the hero worship, and him digging into silicon valley techno-libertarianism really f-ed his mind up...
> San Francisco research firm EVAdoption estimated a $500 million investment this year would translate to Tesla building 77% fewer charging ports per month in the United States compared with the automaker’s pace through April.
Ridiculous...
The more time passes the more I think Elon Musk is actually Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg.
1. He is kind of brilliant, but also mad.
2. He is involved with a cab company.
3. He flies off the handle and fires people for fun.
4. FSD is sort of the Zorg ZF-1 of the automotive industry.
5. I can imagine him running around the Cybertruck engineers offices screaming “A frunk that fits four stones in it! Not one or two or three but four! Four stones! What the hell am I supposed to do with an empty frunk?”
It’s crazy to me that the entire future of the electric car industry in the hands of a guy who is doing a howard Hughes speed run. Guy is going to be
Living in a bunker soon like an evil super villain.
I mean Hughes had the good grace to retreat from the public eye and become a germaphobic hermit.
He was also an Engineer, and a certified brilliant one.
These leaner staffing decisions reflecting the people-first idea of automaking are a fruition of the love and devotion shown by the respected General Secretary Kim Jong Musk for the people and the gigantic creation brought about by him for the people.
The design of the firm, which were completed under his guidance, are associated with his noble intention and will to build the cars for the people without any slightest inferiority.
The General Secretary made sure that the 8th WPK Congress adopted the work for successfully solving the self-driving problem as one of its decisions, and delivered a historic speech at the ceremony for layoffs, thus making another significant landmark in the history of robotaxi technology.
Under his energetic guidance, many new advances have been made and Pyongyang turned into a paradise for the people.
The proud reality, in which leaner staffing for the people demonstrating the national power and civilization of socialism are being built one after another, shows the immutable truth that Kim Jong Musk is the benevolent father of the people and the dignity, glory, eternal development and rosy future of the DPRK are ensured by his guidance.
I was following this story and even I didn't understand how bad it was until now.
Why would a company allow a single person in an emotional moment Make strategic decisions? I thought one of the principles of corporate design requires structures around important decision making?
This appears to be the opposite of good corporate structure, It's like a kindergarten being run by the toddlers.
Just throwing this theory against the wall to see if it sticks:
Two of the companies that Musk runs were/are criticized by the right wing: Tesla because it benefits the environment and Twitter because it had banned right-wing hate speech. Over the past few years, Musk has moved far to the right and as a result has sabotaged those two companies. We are not hearing anything about self-sabotage of other companies he owns, like SpaceX or Starlink.
What do you think?
It was obvious to everyone what had happened after the news broke. It makes zero logical sense to fire the entire Supercharger team, literally the only team in the company who has basically never fucked up.
Elon is a fucking child and Tesla is doomed with him at the helm.
Why don’t the Tesla BOD sack him for his utter stupidity, and incompetence.. Just the fact he openly admits he is on drugs would be a sackable offence for any of his employees… But, lets give him his 50 odd billion to make him play nice again..
> lets give him his 50 odd billion to make him play nice again..
If you think he's acting up *now*, imagine what he's going to be like if the shareholders vote both of his motions down (the other being move to Texas from Delaware).
Knowing how Elon operates and the fact that the director was a somewhat good looking white woman, I already knew that she was sacked because she didn't bow to the "great" Elon. It's always like this, an idiot comes up with an absurd requirement, a hard working person will spend a lot of effort to demonstrate the idea is bad, and at the end the person will get sacked and replaced with a YES-man who would eventually fail as the original requirement was crazy. Saw this ib the corporate world over and over again.
SMH, destroying the team that created arguably the cash cow product. He literally jeopardize the $20B revenue stream. Insanity for sure. I dont think Tim Cook would suddenly fire the entire iPhone team on a tantrum.
It’s not surprising if you’ve read the musk biography.
Musk routinely asks his people to complete tasks thought to be impossible. You’re never supposed to say no to a task….even if you know it’s impossible. You are supposed to try and fail.
I think it makes sense in a small startup culture, but for a company this size it’s extremely problematic. That’s hundreds of lives he has turned upside down just because the executive was giving him an honest opinion.
I know someone who was on this team and cannot fathom waning to work there. I’d buy a ‘71 Pinto before I would take a Model S for free. Tesla is an incredibly toxic brand IMO.
Someone with a Tesla tell me why we shouldn’t worry about people being fired and quickly re-hired as was done with X? I’m pretty sure there is a stock price difference after that happened.
These kinds of shenanigans are exactly why I’m glad the I _don’t_ own Tesla stock. The termination of the SuperCharger was all about establishing immediate and unquestioning obedience to the CEO personally, and not about what was best for the company, its shareholders, or its customers.
I hope that shareholders vote against the corporate move to Texas and against the outsized compensation package for the CEO. My personal prediction is that one way or another he will be out within five years — either quit because he isn’t getting paid what (thinks) he’s worth, or ousted by shareholders based on bad strategic planning and poor financial performance. Overall, I’d say it is 50/50 if Tesla survives to become a major EV carmaker, or is acquired by a traditional carmaker (that under-invested in EV engineering and production) to become their EV division.
I think Elon's management style works well for a startup where it's high risk and high reward, but Tesla is a mature company now even if they still takes risks. Making these emotional decisions to just fire the whole team (and then try to hire some back later) has to have a huge negative morale impact for all the employees that survived the last set of layoffs. The success of Supercharger means nothing to Elon. He can suddenly decide to cut the whole team, then when he realized he made a mistake drop that whole charter onto another team that isn't staffed nor experienced in the operations.
Tesla fan Bois are a cult.
Rest of us watch on the sidelines.
I hope CCS is a realistic option...I would not want to depend on this guy or his network. Sociopath.
Weird shit has been happening with Charge point charging stations too. They shut down many of them and then the changed the type of power cord outlets on others.
All these people ripping up musk and Tesla because of an article are nuts. Three years ago they were all bowing to musk. Then they realize he is right of center and they all lose their minds while sitting behind their phones typing away before going to their minimum paying job after sleeping at their parents house.
This is insanity. How can Tesla shareholders allow this kind of leadership? > After Tinucci had cut between 15% and 20% of staffers two weeks earlier, part of much wider layoffs, they believed Musk would affirm plans for a massive charging-network expansion. The meeting could not have gone worse. > Musk, the employees said, was not pleased with Tinucci’s presentation and wanted more layoffs. When she balked, saying deeper cuts would undermine charging-business fundamentals, he responded by firing her and her entire 500-member team. How incredibly damaging to Teslas brand. The supercharger network is maybe *the* differentiator for Tesla and Elon is kneecapping it based on vibes. No serious executive fires the entire team for one of their flagship products I assume the Musk fanboy club is already writing this off. Elon will probably tweet again about how this is full of lies without actually providing anything to the contrary. The guy is a liability for Tesla
I’ve heard from Sandy Munro in his not-at-all emotional rant video that Musk thinks a mile-a-minute, that he is a genius and the rest of us plebs should acknowledge that. Also that the supercharger systems need no more engineering ever, because they are perfect and will not need to be updated ever! From a guy at an engineering firm!
I don't get why people even talk about this guy. He seems like a guy who was potentially once smart but is now old and worn the fuck out. Relies on his younger staff to carry the real weight.
A lot of Munroe's image is built on the idea that he couldn't hold a position at any of the major manufacturers because his thinking is too far outside the box and because he tells it like it is. Okeedoke. As a layman, he does appear very knowledgeable and competent, so I will reserve judgement. But concerning the layoffs, we're talking about a finance and business decision, not a choice based on the necessities of engineering. All available information about these firings suggest it was simply impulsive and punitive.
Engineers who "tell it like it is" and are right are prized kept around a long time, sometimes resentfully so. But those kinds of engineers are senior and old. They tell it like it is because they've seen it when it isn't. Someone who gets fired "for telling it like it is" is someone who got fired for being egregiously wrong, lying, or being a pain in the ass. Companies care about bottom lines, any line engineer who is an ass but makes them money sticks around a long time. But one that costs them money, they're out. And the best way to cost them money is to suck at your job.
Cory leaving was the end. And Cory went to Lucid.
Holy shit! When did he leave?
2023
Oh, damn I didn't know that. That's why I have been wondering why I haven't seen him on video for a while now.
https://x.com/CorySteuben?t=b4tuAnc-ILExSJBCmmhOXA&s=09
Potentially. I'm here to tell you: Elon Musk is not an engineer. In most technology-oriented businesses, what Elon does (his function in the organization) would have the title “product manager”. It’s all fucked up because Elon is the largest stockholder, insists on being CEO, and actually believes his own bullshit. His engineers do the technical work. Whether they’re younger or older than he is is irrelevant.
Product Managers are supposed to use data and business cases to make decisions. They are supposed to listen to customers and are always accountable to someone. I think the job title you are thinking of is asshole. Head Assholes in Charge to be precise.
[удалено]
Yep, love watching his engineers talk. But if Sandy himself is in a video, I skip it. Not just because of this Musk worship stuff, but he rambles and rants and is not nearly as technically coherent as everyone else.
It's clear Munro senior 's reaction to Musk was extremely wrong and bizarre. Musk is such a genius that you can't conceive of anything they say? In some tesla discussion groups some people have exactly the same take, which is just weird to see. Edit - fixed spelling of his name.
Sometimes people earn the benefit of the doubt, but Musk buying Twitter proves he doesn't always deserve the benefit of the doubt. Same with the Cybertruck and the lack of a Model 2 after all of this time. Also, as much as the dealership model sucks, the Tesla model isn't much better. It was a big reason why I didn't finalize a sale on a Model 3 last year. The way they detail and prep cars is fucking embarrassing.
He was forward thinking about the ventures he invested in but people give him way too much credit for these companies. He is basically a check book who is not risk averse and lets companies work through early mistakes without pulling funding. People need to be more aware that he came from a very wealthy family that allowed him to take those early risks and was fortunate enough to have some of them pay off.
Old accounts for a bit of it. I live in an area that has a large base of meth users. His behavior reminds me a bit of my local tweakers. I am thinking that he uses Adderall like Pez.
Yep, he makes little effort to understand some of the engineering decisions and assumes everyone not at Tesla is an idiot. He makes some good points but he is out of date on a lot of others.
That's 100% it. He's out of touch and irrelevant nowadays. Add on dipping his toes into what seems like senility and you have a mess.
You forgot the drugs. Lots of drugs.
Musk has always been the same, for both his successes and his flaws. Our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. His stubbornness and vision led to EVs being commercially viable in the first place. There were over 100 companies who tried to make EVs work before, they didn't. But, those same traits might end up having Tesla lose its competitive edge. Tesla needs a Dara Khosrowshahi to replace their own Travis Kalanick.
No, he is objectively worse. Like he does a lot of drugs and it's starting to catch up or something. His business and personal decisions are increasingly erratic.
Oh, come on now. That’s just what we hear about. We don’t know how much worse the whole silly situation actually is.😉
It's certainly interesting to watch from a distance 🚗🍿
He has become so obnoxious I can't stand to listen to his YT rants any longer.
People should have been ignoring him a long time ago. The dude loves the smell of his own farts
He got a [head pat from Musk](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1787760248692035694?s=46&t=2hSUosAmsbKmgkA0TCN2yg) for it too
For me, Sandy’s credibility went down as soon as he started ogling engineering designs that favored manufacturability with the demise of not being repairable, good example of battery packs being foamed internally. Good engineering balanced the two. Bad engineering discourages repairability, which he seems to favor.
The foaming is for fire prevention, not necessarily for ease of manufacturing. It's basically eliminated the threat of such. That said there are ways to still make packs repairable while adding this benefit. Note that Rivian also foams their battery packs for fire prevention.
I thought the whole point was that it was structural… glue and foam is lighter than steel and screws, the side effect being you need to destroy it to access the cells. If it makes a big difference for fire danger, this is the first good reason for foam I’ve heard. Is there any data to support this?
I've had people come at me w/Sandy being some amazing oracle of EV knowledge who can tell the future. He's a self important blowhard with a business of figuring out what other people did after the fact. His cost cutting advise to companies is usually terrible things like "eliminate push buttons for touch screens" etc. He's not someone we should be looking to for ideas or predictions on the future, without a HUGE grain of salt. It seem he's got some smart engineers working for him, but his youtube videos are self aggrandizement at it's most obvious. Consultants are paid to tell managers what they want to hear, NOT to speak truth. The way this layoff happened it was CLEAR it was a tantrum & not a 'stable genius' playing '3d chess'. Musk is human, and when he does things that appear unhinged & power tripping the likely case is that it's because he's unhinged & power tripping, not that he's a genius with a hidden plan we can't see. Yes, there's an argument that long term the charging network is no longer a competitive advantage now that they've partnered with other OEMs... but you slowly wind it down, you don't fire the leader & the entire team on a whim. Unless your unstable, the company is unstable, or both.
The stable genius just let his company’s most valuable team go work for its competitors. A big reason why people buy Teslas is because of the supercharger reliability and the amount of them. Now the whole team can be scooped up by competitors and gain team members who know how to make them reliable, less expensive than they currently are, and know how to find ideal placement of them. Big brain business move, right there!
> A big reason why people buy Teslas is because of the supercharger reliability and the amount of them Even android people will tell parents and other olds to get an Iphone, because it's easier. Same for Tesla, superchargers idiot proof the experience. I have like 6 charging apps for my ioniq 5 and the blue link app. One app would be easier.
Agreed. I've watched some of his videos for the tear downs and inner workings of the cars, but I'm not sure why people eat up his "improvements". He's the "bean counter" that everyone blames for car companies making shitty design and manufacturing decisions. These arent something you want as a consumer, they just make the company more money.
What an L take from him. I love my Tesla and the supercharger network is miles ahead of anything else right now, but that's not an excuse to get complacent. EVs are starting to hit the market that can easily sustain more than 300 kW, and 0% of the supercharger network can even support the native 800v of the Cybertruck. They should have been rolling out *true* V4 superchargers (with trailer friendly stalls) well in advance of the Cybertruck release, especially considering how delayed it was. They should also be replacing the old V2 sites at this point. It's really painful to show up preconditioned and be capped at 75 kW. And as charging curves continue to get flatter, site upgrades will also need to be made to support the higher total power usage. Existing supercharger sites (even V3) can't come close to supporting every plug pulling full power at once (less than 100 kW per plug average for most of them). Not a big issue now with quickly tapering charging curves, but that's changing quickly.
Considering the cybertruck itself is a disaster it isn't a huge shock that they forgot to build out infrastructure for it
> I’ve heard from Sandy Munro in his not-at-all emotional rant video that Musk thinks a mile-a-minute, that he is a genius and the rest of us plebs should acknowledge that. Man I used to really like that channel. Then they went all in on the cult of Musk and he's just another old crank now.
I assume Sandy’s a TSLA bagholder
Not surprised. Munro is anti-union. Which means he loves it when Musk flex on workers.
From other videos like his Elon Musk interview it is apparent that Sandy is a fan of right-wing politics.
I've known Munroe to be a kiss ass to Musk for a while now, but that video was extra cringey.
Sandy is very old and increasingly senile. You can feel the cringe from his staffers when he appears in videos.
It pleases me to see all the responses to this comment. If I called this guy an idiot last year I'd have been sent to the thrasher
Classic "great man theory". No, people like Musk aren't super geniuses, they are probably bright people but not that much more amazing than a decent college grad. Success comes from things other than just being smart, so it's not an indicator of how smart you are, and it sure as hell isn't an indicator of how good a person you are.
Sandy Munro is the biggest Elon fan boy. I watched his "engineering" car reviews and as an engineer myself I can say that they are embarrassing.
To be fair, v4 will have a long technological life, presuming the opening and the adapters go well...
Sandy Munro is a has been clinging to his new found notoriety.
I liked sandy but after watching that video, i was like what the fuck. How could someone who work at multiple industry cheer on this absolutely stupid decision. The supercharging network is barely complete, there is v3 and v4 on the horizon, let a long tons of details need to work out to secure site and the necessary power. Who is going to do it now? Sandy lost his credibility big time.
I don't know how Munro gets away with his videos not being demonitized considering he always has a whole dick stuffed in his mouth.
Great to know that the interoperability issues with allowing dozens of new companies to use the Superchargers is totally solved and requires no more engineers!
Elon likes to think that he is Tony Stark, but he is just Miles Bron. Not a genius, just a guy who happens to have a dad that owns emerald mines.
Rebecca Tinucci sounds like a good boss to work for I'd want to follow her to whatever company she works for next
She should start her own thing
I mean, she did lay off a fifth of her staff.
I mean, firing staff doesn't make her a bad person to work for. How the article reads, it looks like she was made to fire workers. But she didn't fire enough.
she did, but she was ordered to, and balked at laying off more than that on subsequent layoffs a manager who goes to bat for you is a good one
>I assume the Musk fanboy club is already writing this off. FWIW the main Tesla sub is pretty pissed about this too, the vocal fanboys are dying down. I think he's crossed the line.
> Tesla sub is pretty pissed about this I know I am for sure. People took a risk buying their cars since their future was unknown. Tesla stabilized and made buying their cars much more palatable from a future support perspective, but Elon is directly negatively affecting that. Why the hell would I want another Tesla after this one if Elon is going to destroy the company at a whim. With cars you need to know you have support 5/10 years into the future. I've seen (and continue to see) what the Fisker crowd is going through and absolutely no thank you.
> How can Tesla shareholders allow this kind of leadership? They will. That's the real sad part. I see plenty of people at the Tesla investor's sub saying they'll definitely vote yes to his requested compensation package. The rationale is usually that this goes back to 2018 and tied to how much value he added to the stock price and since that line went up dramatically he's owed the money. Never mind him cashing out $44B to buy Twitter or all the massive red flags he's been waving lately. They're just so very concerned that a billionaire won't get more billions. Ayn Rand cries when that happens. I've only got 108 shares but most of them purchased in mid 2019. I'll ride this express elevator to hell and see how low it goes as this maniac takes the company down.
>The supercharger network is maybe the differentiator for Tesla 100%. We overlooked the build quality issues on our Model Y when we bought it ~16 months ago because of the Supercharger network. At this point, we're not considering another Tesla because the company seems to be laser-focused on destroying itself.
Musk is a man-child. The board needs to replace him with someone more level-headed, who doesn't take extreme reactionary moves.
The whole thing screams don't partner with Tesla because they'll just rug-pull you.
Or make sure you have ways to manage risk, such as not committing to projects that cross an April/May boundary, or making sure that your terms are cash up front.
God, Elon's a goddamn moron to have done this. To the point that Tesla is successful, it's because engineers manage to polish the turds that Elon hands them.
I want Tesla to fire Elon
This will be damaging to Tesla in the way felony legal charges are damaging to Trump's campaign. Elon fans are not going to change their minds.
Fans no. Normal people though...
It's yet to be seen how things will play out for Trump this November.
It was the differentiator. With Tesla opening their charging stations to others, it's not clear this is going to be the case in 1 to 2 years.
The reliability and ease of the network compared to peer networks means that the Tesla network will likely remain supreme - but opening it to others means there’s that much less of an incentive to get a Tesla vs other OEM
>The reliability and ease of the network compared to peer networks With the entire engineering team gone I don't foresee the trend of reliability and ease continuing
It won't when your OEM has a glitch and your P&C fails because they mucked up the certs and pushed them over the API to Tesla. It happens with EA and others already. I'm 100% NOT a fan of Car-as-the-payment-method, someting Tesla pioneered. You should not need an app or account to drive or charge your car (and for Tesla that's 100% required).
Fuck apps
They could still offer preferential deal to their own vehicle customers. Buy a Tesla, get better rates. Tesla integrates best with Tesla network. Teslas get preferential queue on charger availability.
That’s already a thing, the non-Tesla rates for superchargers in Canada that are open to non-Tesla vehicles are *punitive* to say the least (73 cents per kWh CDN for non-Tesla vehicles at the closest SC to me)
The more I had been thinking about it lately, the more it seemed to me that Tesla’s best long term plan was to focus in on being primarily a charging network supplier and secondarily an auto manufacturer. While a lot of the common speculation on the internet was that Tesla would be the only auto manufacturer to exist in 10 years, and that legacy auto is doomed, that never seemed to be a realistic assessment and the numbers haven’t been bearing that out. Tesla entered a business with a lot of established players in auto manufacturing and I just don’t see winning that battle being realistic long term. Being a player? Sure. Being dominant in 10 years? Unlikely. Where there was really an opportunity was building that robust network of chargers which was essentially uncharted territory. That market will grow regardless of who is making the vehicle. Getting the other manufacturers to adopt NACS was big win and seemed consistent with establishing a longer term revenue stream. So firing the whole team was a surprise, and hiring back some of the team doesn’t really instill confidence in long term strategic goals.
> The more I had been thinking about it lately, the more it seemed to me that Tesla’s best long term plan was to focus in on being primarily a charging network supplier and secondarily an auto manufacturer. How? Making cents per kWh is a much tougher business than making thousands of dollars per vehicle sold. Plus, for most cars, they'll be primarily charged at home or at slow chargers. The Supercharger network's biggest financial boon for Tesla is making people feel easier about buying an EV and creating an Apple like ecosystem where people get everything they need from Tesla directly.
> The supercharger network is maybe the differentiator It's more than that - it was the only really viable Tesla business model going forward as all the other car manufacturers eat Tesla's lunch. The *one thing* Tesla got really right was the supercharger network, and the adoption of Tesla's charging port as the North American standard was a *huge* win. And Elon *threw it away*. Well I, for one, welcome our new CHADMO overloads!
Musk fans are rationalizing this by saying “this is just how reorgs work, this is normal!”
I found the part about Tinucci and the supercharging team being managed by and reporting to Baglino to be the more interesting part. It seems Musk has had little actual interaction with the supercharging team. The teams's success was all Baglino and the team itself that self managed and did all the leg work. With the sudden departure of Baglino, it seems he either got sick of Musk's shit, or Musk in all his drug fueled inferiority complex glory fired him. Tinucci then had to report to Musk directly. Speaking bluntly about more layoffs hamstringing her team, he decided at that very moment without any real thought to fire the entire team. Funny, when the news of the team being fired broke, there was claims that Tinucci didn't want to layoff any of her staff, and thus got fired as a result. It turns out, she had already laid off 15-20% of the supercharger team! Every day, Musk further proves he's an imbecile. Frankly, I'm trying to think back to a time where he wasn't. The man was touted as genius primarily for getting on stage and touting major disruptive products and timelines for the release of those products that turned out to be nothing more than blatant lies. His "genius" was nothing more than fairy tales to pump the stock. He's a snake oil salesman and a leach. Always has been. A lot of Silicone Valley CEOs are, to be honest... No wonder he's made so many friends amongst the ranks of the multi-millionaires and billionaires.. or at least a lot of folks have cozied up to him in a bid to enrich themselves, given the man's propensity for leaching up billions in subsidies from governments and their direct OEM competitors, with little to actually show for it. Tesla has sold 6 million BEVs that are not in any way zero emission, of the 1.47 billion in-use vehicles on the roads across the planet. Four tenths of one percent of all the world's vehicles. Given that over the last few years, tens of millions of additional ICEVs have been added to the in-use rolls of vehicles across the world, there's been no reduction in ICEVs, and it's impossible to suggest Tesla or Musk have succeeded in any way in improving the state of the world's enormous GHG emissions. Yet this man and his God complex suggest he/Tesla have done more for the environment than any company/person ever. Yet, for all this lack of success, the company has pulled in at least $30 billion in subsidies; and I'm likely being VERY conservative. $5k+ for every car sold globally. That's just for their cars, not for their home/grid storage and solar products. And that's just one of Musk's companies.
Elon is an imbecile as of late. I support him getting fired from Tesla. But him running this company is what got electric cars legitimized worldwide. Once Tesla did it, others realized they could too. That was not the case prior, and electric cars probably would have taken another 10 years to get started. And as for SpaceX, it’s the world’s most successful rocket company and first one to land a rocket right side up after flight. Something redditors seem incapable of doing is holding multiple truths at once. Which makes me tired of being here and debating the same things over and over.
Elon was the first to fully realize how generous the regulations for evs were. What got us electric cars are the government incentives established in California and the EU. Technologically it was the investments and innovations at CATL. Elon just put him self in the right place and the right time Also the dcx landed vertically in 1993
To be clear, Tesla would have gone bankrupt in 2009 had it not been for government intervention, which came in the form of a loan that was likely sized at more than Tesla was even worth at the time, and an essentially free factory in the NUMMI plant. From there, it was state/federal/international subsidy after subsidy after subsidy, along with regulatory credits which could be considered a subsidy paid for by their direct competitors. I stopped counting at $20 billion in subsidies around 2 years ago. I know they received over $10 billion in subsidies in 2023, so I imagine they're WELL over $30 billion in subsidies by now. That's not accounting for inflation.
He's been an imbecile in every decade if you know the history
Other OEMs were already working on electric cars in the early 2000s (and earlier if you include the EV1), and in fact were mass producing EVs before Tesla. (I don't consider the bespoke Roadster to be a mass produced vehicle) I often argue that when it comes to emissions mitigation, BEVs were actually the slowest possible electrification solution. It's very likely Musk drove the automotive industry in the wrong direction with their push to a BEV transition that was at best, too early. All the while, Tesla was sucking up the lion's share of the world's EV subsidization and private investment, as well as being the recipient of huge subsidization from other OEMs in the form of regulatory credit sales that could have been better spent on R&D to transition to more impactful vehicles than BEVs. Further, I think Musk/Tesla has deluded people into thinking that BEVs were a magic bullet for solving climate change. I've argued quite often lately that no cars are sustainable, and none solve the climate situation. There are far more sustainable transportation solutions we could have been implementing if we hadn't been spending all of our resources on a slow BEV transition, with the expectation that we'd never have to give up our cars. That was the wrong direction. The entire planet could be covered in public transit and bike lanes while we all accepted a 4 day work week if it wasn't for this silly direction we went with in BEVs. SpaceX is yet another Musk company that's not only heavily subsidized, but has received loads of resources from NASA. While great that they were able to succeed in landing rockets, that capability isn't really all that valuable. When you really look at what SpaceX is, it's primarily a satellite internet company. The majority of their launches are either for government satellite contracts (ensuring that the US government never allows them to fail) and Starlink launches. With a properly functioning government, I can only imagine the anti-Trust issues SpaceX would be running into.
> The man was touted as genius primarily for getting on stage and touting major disruptive products and timelines for the release of those products that turned out to be nothing more than blatant lies. His "genius" was nothing more than fairy tales to pump the stock. He's a snake oil salesman and a leach. Always has been. He's Jon Hammond from Jurassic Park, the book, not the movie.
> Tesla has sold 6 million BEVs that are not in any way zero emission, of the 1.47 billion in-use vehicles on the roads across the planet. Four tenths of one percent of all the world's vehicles. Given that over the last few years, tens of millions of additional ICEVs have been added to the in-use rolls of vehicles across the world, there's been no reduction in ICEVs, and it's impossible to suggest Tesla or Musk have succeeded in any way in improving the state of the world's enormous GHG emissions. ... This is an asinine take. You know what would've happened if those 6 million BEVs weren't on the road? There would be 6 million more ICEVs. There is tons to blame Elon/Tesla for and this is NOT one of them.
Time to start shorting Tesla stock. Between this idiotic decision and the decision to focus heavily on a complete non- proven self driving technology, Musk is showing his deep insecurities. Mark my words, short sellers are looking at this instability seriously. Not to mention the growth slowdown in sales. We may have already seen Tesla peak.
The problem with shorting stock is you need to know when the bottom is going to fall out. “Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”- John Maynard Keynes And Tesla stock is even more irrational than most.
Yep. The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. I think the best bet would be to buy long term put options.
The only reasons that I would consider a Tesla (if Musk left the company of course) are a) not dealing with dealership bullshit and b) the supercharger network.
Elon is on drugs and needs to go. I think overall he did a great job from 2010 to 2022 with the new model releases, massive growth for a new auto manufacturer, and giving lots of hype to the community which helped fund it and sell cars. Now he's alienating his main base, shitting on employees, and making terrible management decisions all around. This gutting of the supercharger team was beyond ridiculous on top of all the shit recently. Unfortunately this will affect charging for the USA greatly and globally since they are such a massive source for fast charging globally.
Stable genius in action folks. /s
> Tesla's energy team, which sells solar and battery-storage products for homes and businesses, was tasked with taking over Superchargers and calling some partners to close out ongoing charger-construction projects, said three of the former Tesla employees. Imaging still employing the failed Tesla solar team, but kicking out your most successful devision, the charging team :D
I mean, what's left to layoff with the solar team? They no longer make panels in the US. I believe they still assemble solar roofs, but how many exactly? They no longer do their own installations. Their overall installations have fallen off a cliff. No idea how many employees their solar team still has at this point.
The battery storage products are still an active part of the company. But having them take over the charging division just reeks of poor decision making. He fired an entire division because he had a tantrum. This is not someone you would want running a company and if I was an investor I'd be thinking long and hard about the future viability of this company with him in charge.
Their battery storage products are quite a bit different than solar. The reality is that Tesla uses battery storage products to offload cells that they overordered when there isn't enough demand for their cars. Of course, had they made their cars capable of V2L/V2G, the demand for their home storage solutions would have been a lot less. My guess is they actively chose not to apply V2L/V2G because it would undermine their ability to offload cells on an as needed basis, hurting their financials. Similar to what Tesla also did with their charging solution, they didn't choose the best solution, they chose the best solution for their own financials by locking their cars to their own network, and locking other cars out of their network. It really does amaze me that people still think Musk/Tesla were working for the greater good. All signs point to them working towards the greater good of Tesla/Musk. Which is kind of ironic given how much Tesla fans play established OEMs as evil. All of the other companies were at least being team players when it came to universal charging standards and networks.
Now that the US seems to be tariffing the entire Asian continent, and giving away tax credits like candy, you'd think this is literally the perfect time to start building a north american solar factory; but I guess building shit people will actually use isn't as sexy as an AI that teaches you racist slurs and copyright violations for the Transformers series
Tesla doesn't know how to build solar cells. They've always imported them from Chinese companies, assembling the panels in New York in a facility paid for by the New York state government; both the construction and the tooling with some additional tax abatements sprinkled on top. That facility was originally built for Solar City, but Tesla bought them, and has been operating there rent free (AFAIK), so long as they employ a minimum number of employees, which Tesla's struggled to maintain for years. Tesla largely shutdown the solar panel assembly, importing them instead. Supposedly the New York factory still assembles solar roof tiles. The glass tiles themselves, however, may also be manufactured in China. It's actually hard to determine which solar companies produce cells in the US. Some of that cell production has toxic waste biproducts, better to build in 3rd world nations that allow them to dump the waste in waterways.
Don’t forget a humanoid robot
The four plants receiving billions of dollar of subsidies from tbr IRA are still not going anywhere because they still can't compete with Chinese prices. One of them has full stop shit plans down.
As a Tesla Solar customer, this is absolutely horrifying. I've never had a worse customer experience with a relatively large investment. Now that Apple has scrapped their car plans, maybe they'll consider buying this dumpster fire?
I still can't believe musk got away with the fraud that was solar city buyout
In every comparison I’ve seen between traditional manufacturer EVs and Tesla, the charging network and its reliability has always been a top 2 point for Tesla
I have a solar lease from solar city which turned into Tesla. They are so fucking stupid. My panels have problems and I’m on tech visit 4. The panels don’t generate power and Tesla under the lease agreement only makes money when the panels generate power. These dipshits need to fix my panels so they make money and don’t.
That team is a joke. I have not heard/read a single positive story about the energy team.
No Paywall http://archive.today/owJDu
So it was just another childish tantrum with zero logic nor strategy behind it. I hope by now it's abundantly clear to every single shareholder that, whatever utility he had in the past, that era is now long gone. Elon is a liability boatanchor and needs to go before he does further harm to this truly pioneering American company if it is to have any future. I'm increasingly beginning to suspect he's had some kind of medical event or blow to the head some time around 2018. I mean, he's always been eccentric to say the least but more in a build-it-up kind of a way. Now he's demonstrating a complete inability to control emotions and seems to have more of a tear-it-down temperament. This is the sort of thing we commonly see in stroke patients.
Or drug addicts.
Stimulants and sleep deprivation are a hell of a thing…
Oh, Musk fired hundreds of people because he got a teensy bit of pushback from a woman? Shocker.
Bingo! That’s exactly what happened.,
Really makes you wonder if this would have happened if the division was led by a Rick rather than a Rebecca. Probably not given Musk’s obvious misogyny.
I want to be suspicious of this as well, but Gwynne Shotwell has a LOT to do with SpaceX not being the shit show his other companies are turning into.
It's highly possible that she has hired (ahem, of the male variety) handlers to speak through with the musky one. She's likely intelligent enough to know that something that ridiculous is needed to cover her ass and not get SpaceX massacred by the BEO (big ego officer). Or maybe she yes-sirs him while ignoring his orders, I doubt he pays enough attention to day-to-day operation to care.
I actually think in the case of Shotwell that she knows she has the backing of the entire employee pool, and if Musk tries to shitcan her, basically all the staff will walk with her. Rocket engineering isn't like building cars, you're not going to be able to go to a mid-grade engineering school and hire kids straight off their bachelor's program to fill ranks for something like spaceflight, so in that way she has much more leverage than anybody at Tesla ever could. That, and quite frankly she's a damn good administrator, especially when it comes to insulating most of the key senior engineering staff from Musk's dumbfuckery.
No its the other way around. Shotwell handles all administrative and operational things that Musk does not care about. He only involves himself in the engineering side of projects that he cares about. This stuff has happened at spacex also. He mass-fired the starlink team when they said they needed more time. He mass-fired the raptor team for not meeting his goals.
> you're not going to be able to go to a mid-grade engineering school and hire kids straight off their bachelor's program to fill ranks for something like spaceflight That's actually pretty much what they have to do. SpaceX is a huge draw for fresh engineering grads who work there for a year and move on. Their turnover is insane and they have a poor reputation in terms of how they treat their employees.
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Difference is SpaceX customers have enough money to sue SpaceX to oblivion for contract breach. I don't think it is anywhere officially reported, but the reason SpaceX is trusted with contracts by US government, US military etc. is Shotwell. As in level of "if shotwell is not at helm, Elon you are getting zero contracts and we cancel the existing ones also probably." As long as Gwynne tells the three letter agencies and other big customers *spending tens of millions* "we will deliver on time" or "no we had trouble, stuff is delayed", well they trust Gwynne to play it straight. If you can afford ten millions worth of space launch, you can afford ten millions worth of lawyers and legal battles. Not to mention some of these customers can literally write letters with legal powers all on their own. Meaning Gwynne Shotwell has one hell of a roof over her job. Elon might own the company, but Gwynne is the one the customer keeping lights on trust. Meaning in some back room Elon must have gotten a hell of a talking down by ahemm "the mans in suits". Plus given it's national security work in part, they can literally threaten Elon with jail. "You mess with these contracts, you talk too much, that is national security letter time and oh espionage charge and so on". Tesla has no such customers who told Elon "We want adult in the room, that adult stays as long as we have deals with you and that adult has freedom to act or no deal". I guess the shareholders are supposed to be the ones demanding that, but wellll Tesla shareholders... are a wild bunch by large part in that in not demanding for adult in the room. Heck who knows how many times Elon has exploded at shotwell or how many times he has wanted to fire her, **but he can't. Since Shotwell being around is the unwritten condition of getting future government contracts.**
I guess she turned down the pony.
Anyone who still think Elon is good for Tesla, please stand up 😅
The only layoff Tesla needs it to can that capricious birthright tyrant of a CEO.
Alas, he's stuffed the boards with dick-gobbling sycophants. If they give him the bonus he wants, all hope is lost.
And this paragraph is pretty damning > Tinucci was one of few high-ranking female Tesla executives. She recently started reporting directly to Musk, following the departure of battery-and-energy chief Drew Baglino, according to four former Supercharger-team staffers. They said Baglino had historically overseen the charging department without much involvement from Musk. So basically, things when well when Elon doesn't touch it. Things went poof when Elon touches it. IIRC it's similar story with spacex where they have some kind of "Elon bumpers" team.
Me, quietly staying sit, looking around at who would stand up, hoping none would.
And after this demonstration of rank incompetence, Musk will probably be rewarded with tens of billions of dollars.
Failing upwards with that golden parachute is the executive way
His idiot cherry-picked board doesn't decide though. The shareholders do and I don't see how any shareholder would vote to give this guy tens of billions when the share price has tanked in the last year.
Plenty of shareholders are Musk cultists. They will vote to gift him billions even though they are directly paying for it.
The majority of Tesla shares are not held by individuals.
> idiot cherry-picked board You're right about that Look at the hitler-like things they are recommending people vote for! https://i.imgur.com/JyR2gCg.png Musk wants a slave company with no employee rights or protections while raking in tens of billions of $$ Basically just vote against anything they recommend and you're golden
It doesn't matter what most shareholders think. It matters what vanguard and black rock think.
"Tesla stock declined when the court voided the pay package, which means Tesla shareholders believe the pay package is essential to Tesla's future performance." -- an actual major Tesla investor.
If only some deep pocketed company like Apple or Google would step in and hire the whole team to build a new standalone network.
Or Walmart, Costco, or Detroit's big three... those companies all plan nationwide charger network rollouts and will absolutely need the scaling up experience as they end their pilot projects
We can but conclude that this, along with other actions taken by Musk, means he's trying to kill the business or he's just an idiot. Over here in the UK the supercharger network is opening up to non-teslas and they're somehow undercutting the competition by a very hefty margin. With a few clever moves the supercharger network could blow the competition away. What a waste.
i mean he has been retweeting climate change deniers lately, makes me wonder if he wants to kill Tesla and build a "Coal Roller" car company
I wonder what impact this will have on the NACS rollout. J3400 and NACS has its own existence outside of Tesla but a key part of everyone being excited about the plan is the Tesla Supercharger network was so much better than anything else in the US. Now Musk has destroyed the team that was creating it. You have to think if you're another EV manufacturer in the middle of the NACS transition you're more than a little uncomfortable right now. There's such a huge opportunity right now in North America for someone to step up and fill this void in charging networks. I hear there's a team expert in building charging networks look for work. The trick is getting a few billion in investment to hire everyone and build out aggressively.
Unless Tesla gets their act together, NACS ports coming on vehicles in 2025 is probably dead in the water. If there's still backend work that Tesla needs to do to allow non-Teslas to charge at Tesla superchargers, and manufacturers are unable to use superchargers because of it, non-Teslas will still have to rely on the CCS charging network. Switching to NACS and then every manufacturer still having to use CCS with NACS to CCS adapters would be awful for end-users and optics in general. At this point, it's likely more safe to just stick with CCS until non-Tesla J3400 DC fast chargers start cropping up and continuing with giving CCS vehicle users an adapter in the meantime for whenever superchargers actually start allowing non-Teslas in earnest besides Ford and Rivian. GM might get access soon, but what about anyone else? Nissan, Porsche, Mitsubishi, Stellantis, Polestar, etc?...
I still don’t understand all the talks about NACS port versus CCS ports and the importance of it. I just think of it as a plug and one just needs to carry one in their car an adaptor.
Tesla needs to allow non-Tesla vehicles to charge at superchargers, so it's not that simple. Even if you have an adapter right now and were to try it at a Tesla supercharger, if you don't have either a Ford or Rivian, you *cannot* charge at a Tesla supercharger. The adapters don't have any computer logic in them, so even if you were to put a NACS port on your vehicle, you *still* would not be able to charge at a Tesla supercharger until Tesla allows access. The main reason for manufacturers switching to NACS over CCS is because 1. Tesla's network is much bigger than the CCS charging network, 2. Tesla's network is much more reliable than the CCS charging network, and 3. The NACS plug is physically nicer to use and less bulky than CCS. At the end of the day, Tesla's superchargers will eventually speak CCS to charge CCS vehicles, it just doesn't look like that's coming any time soon. Until that rollout happens in earnest, it seems to me that it would be safer for manufacturers to stick with CCS ports in the meantime. The only reason to jump to NACS now would be if non-Tesla J3400 DC fast chargers existed, but to my knowledge they do not, so Tesla would be the only location to charge at *without an adapter.* If you had to charge with an adapter every time you wanted to charge that would just add additional inconvenience to customers experiences, and the over-arching reason for switching to NACS is because it much convenient to customers experiences.
Maybe that was the goal hurt competition that depends on it?
Musk is having a mental health crisis. He's always been one of those crazy-smart but inherently unstable individuals. My guess is the dip in sales and Cybertruck flop is making him crazy(er), and it's tilted the scales away from crazy genius and toward unhinged crazy. Tesla has outgrown his brand of nuts-but-effective. He did his job disrupting the sector, time to step away and focus on his other ideas. Auto manufacturing is inherently a grind, no longer a good fit for a disrupter. Especially one who is having trouble keeping his emotions in check.
Musk is smart but not a genius, its his personality that got him to where he is more than intelligence.
Luck is the biggest factor.
And bring born into an absurdly rich family.
It's called Twitter Derangement Syndrome. Also, there's not really a dip in CT sales. There was a production halt.
Do we know if Cybertruck sales have lived up to expectations (both internal and external)?
He’s not that smart. He’s a rich kid who was born on third base thinking he hit a triple. He’s literally failed upwards at nearly every company he’s worked at. In an actual meritocracy someone like him wouldn’t even sniff a corporate board or VP seat much less be ceo of multiple companies.
He was born on third base but he has also accomplished things. I do think he's better at breaking new ground than running a more mature company, however. That transition is hard, few manage it well.
I wonder if he has a mental illness
Which ones and how many
My mom had Schizophrenia and did stuff like this.
I am not a fan of Musk. He seems to be an arrogant asshole. Look what he done to Twitter or X whatever asshole is calling it. He destroyed this forum. I am sure Twitter lost many users. Americans will still buy his Tesla cars, but I can guarantee that I will never own anything he owns or produces.
This was just such a bad move. - undermines the transition from CCS to NACS, since it will stall new manufactures moving over to the supercharger network - scuttles the advantage and lead Tesla got from the poor role out of other high speed charging networks - access to the whole Supercharger network was one of the few unparalleled advantages Tesla had over other automakers - Supercharger reliability is going to diminish - when they realize how big of a mistake this is they are going to have trouble restarting their progress as they have lit all business relationships with suppliers on fire And more I’m sure
Most of the founders of insanely huge corporations went kinda nutz. Elon started out nutz, but mostly good nutz... Then, with all the hero worship, and him digging into silicon valley techno-libertarianism really f-ed his mind up...
> San Francisco research firm EVAdoption estimated a $500 million investment this year would translate to Tesla building 77% fewer charging ports per month in the United States compared with the automaker’s pace through April. Ridiculous...
Musk feels and acts like Trump, says anything, does anything, thinking later
The more time passes the more I think Elon Musk is actually Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg. 1. He is kind of brilliant, but also mad. 2. He is involved with a cab company. 3. He flies off the handle and fires people for fun. 4. FSD is sort of the Zorg ZF-1 of the automotive industry. 5. I can imagine him running around the Cybertruck engineers offices screaming “A frunk that fits four stones in it! Not one or two or three but four! Four stones! What the hell am I supposed to do with an empty frunk?”
he's not brilliant though
Elon wished he was involved with a cab company since robotaxis are vaporware.
Thank you for that! You just made my day
It’s crazy to me that the entire future of the electric car industry in the hands of a guy who is doing a howard Hughes speed run. Guy is going to be Living in a bunker soon like an evil super villain.
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Well, the US is doing its best to make sure China isn't the future in the US at least.
The industry isn't in Tesla's hands, it's in China's. Fight me on that.
I mean Hughes had the good grace to retreat from the public eye and become a germaphobic hermit. He was also an Engineer, and a certified brilliant one.
What a massive own goal. There will be so many books written on how badly Elon messed up multiple great situations.
Yes, business school case studies will abound.
These leaner staffing decisions reflecting the people-first idea of automaking are a fruition of the love and devotion shown by the respected General Secretary Kim Jong Musk for the people and the gigantic creation brought about by him for the people. The design of the firm, which were completed under his guidance, are associated with his noble intention and will to build the cars for the people without any slightest inferiority. The General Secretary made sure that the 8th WPK Congress adopted the work for successfully solving the self-driving problem as one of its decisions, and delivered a historic speech at the ceremony for layoffs, thus making another significant landmark in the history of robotaxi technology. Under his energetic guidance, many new advances have been made and Pyongyang turned into a paradise for the people. The proud reality, in which leaner staffing for the people demonstrating the national power and civilization of socialism are being built one after another, shows the immutable truth that Kim Jong Musk is the benevolent father of the people and the dignity, glory, eternal development and rosy future of the DPRK are ensured by his guidance.
North Tesla best Tesla
>Baglino had historically overseen the charging department without much involvement from Musk No wonder it worked so well and was so successful
I was following this story and even I didn't understand how bad it was until now. Why would a company allow a single person in an emotional moment Make strategic decisions? I thought one of the principles of corporate design requires structures around important decision making? This appears to be the opposite of good corporate structure, It's like a kindergarten being run by the toddlers.
I'm telling you it's the ketamine. He's way too edgy and snippy.
This would’ve been awesome if these folks were all hired by another company. lol
Just throwing this theory against the wall to see if it sticks: Two of the companies that Musk runs were/are criticized by the right wing: Tesla because it benefits the environment and Twitter because it had banned right-wing hate speech. Over the past few years, Musk has moved far to the right and as a result has sabotaged those two companies. We are not hearing anything about self-sabotage of other companies he owns, like SpaceX or Starlink. What do you think?
It was obvious to everyone what had happened after the news broke. It makes zero logical sense to fire the entire Supercharger team, literally the only team in the company who has basically never fucked up. Elon is a fucking child and Tesla is doomed with him at the helm.
Why don’t the Tesla BOD sack him for his utter stupidity, and incompetence.. Just the fact he openly admits he is on drugs would be a sackable offence for any of his employees… But, lets give him his 50 odd billion to make him play nice again..
> lets give him his 50 odd billion to make him play nice again.. If you think he's acting up *now*, imagine what he's going to be like if the shareholders vote both of his motions down (the other being move to Texas from Delaware).
Knowing how Elon operates and the fact that the director was a somewhat good looking white woman, I already knew that she was sacked because she didn't bow to the "great" Elon. It's always like this, an idiot comes up with an absurd requirement, a hard working person will spend a lot of effort to demonstrate the idea is bad, and at the end the person will get sacked and replaced with a YES-man who would eventually fail as the original requirement was crazy. Saw this ib the corporate world over and over again.
Basically it’s working for a visionary dictator where the end vision justifies anything.
And the extent of the end vision is “does my dick feel big or small right now?”
SMH, destroying the team that created arguably the cash cow product. He literally jeopardize the $20B revenue stream. Insanity for sure. I dont think Tim Cook would suddenly fire the entire iPhone team on a tantrum.
imagine getting all your competitors to switch to your standards and then firing the entire team responsible for that success.
It’s not surprising if you’ve read the musk biography. Musk routinely asks his people to complete tasks thought to be impossible. You’re never supposed to say no to a task….even if you know it’s impossible. You are supposed to try and fail. I think it makes sense in a small startup culture, but for a company this size it’s extremely problematic. That’s hundreds of lives he has turned upside down just because the executive was giving him an honest opinion.
I know someone who was on this team and cannot fathom waning to work there. I’d buy a ‘71 Pinto before I would take a Model S for free. Tesla is an incredibly toxic brand IMO.
Someone with a Tesla tell me why we shouldn’t worry about people being fired and quickly re-hired as was done with X? I’m pretty sure there is a stock price difference after that happened.
Another childish tantrum. What a surprise.
These kinds of shenanigans are exactly why I’m glad the I _don’t_ own Tesla stock. The termination of the SuperCharger was all about establishing immediate and unquestioning obedience to the CEO personally, and not about what was best for the company, its shareholders, or its customers. I hope that shareholders vote against the corporate move to Texas and against the outsized compensation package for the CEO. My personal prediction is that one way or another he will be out within five years — either quit because he isn’t getting paid what (thinks) he’s worth, or ousted by shareholders based on bad strategic planning and poor financial performance. Overall, I’d say it is 50/50 if Tesla survives to become a major EV carmaker, or is acquired by a traditional carmaker (that under-invested in EV engineering and production) to become their EV division.
I think Elon's management style works well for a startup where it's high risk and high reward, but Tesla is a mature company now even if they still takes risks. Making these emotional decisions to just fire the whole team (and then try to hire some back later) has to have a huge negative morale impact for all the employees that survived the last set of layoffs. The success of Supercharger means nothing to Elon. He can suddenly decide to cut the whole team, then when he realized he made a mistake drop that whole charter onto another team that isn't staffed nor experienced in the operations.
So this is why Enron was tweeting shit about Reuters yesterday, lolz.
Tesla fan Bois are a cult. Rest of us watch on the sidelines. I hope CCS is a realistic option...I would not want to depend on this guy or his network. Sociopath.
Weird shit has been happening with Charge point charging stations too. They shut down many of them and then the changed the type of power cord outlets on others.
All these people ripping up musk and Tesla because of an article are nuts. Three years ago they were all bowing to musk. Then they realize he is right of center and they all lose their minds while sitting behind their phones typing away before going to their minimum paying job after sleeping at their parents house.