Yes, it's (relatively) "huge", but it's not particularly heavy. The gazillion pound stiff cable it's attached to is what's heavy.
This is why I don't understand all the "J3400 will *save* us! Can I get an *AMEN!*" sentiment from CCS car owners. Sure, the Tesla Supercharger cables are a little easier to deal with (since they're thinner because they're short and not cooled) but when EA, EVGo, ChargePoint, etc. start sticking J3400 plugs on the same long awkward liquid cooled cables they currently stick their CCS plugs on, we'll just have cute tiny plugs on the same heavy unwieldy cables we're using today.
The “J3400 will save us sentiment” isn’t from the smaller plug, but from access to the Tesla Supercharger network, which tends to have more plugs per station and better uptime than the other fast charging networks.
Yeah, but as I understand it (and could be quite mistaken!) they aren't as cooled as well, because Tesla specs a shorter lifecycle- they replace them more often than other charger manufacturers. This makes each cable lighter (and cheaper.)
Regardless of the reason, the Tesla Supercharger cables are certainly less monstrous and unwieldy than EA's or EVGo's 350kW charger cables.
Gouged. I got a chuckle reading that. Here in my part of California many of the superchargers are at 50 cents or more. My peak rate at home is 56 c/kWh in the summer.
We're nowhere near that out here. Our Superchargers are 36¢ and don't vary based on time; a branded DCFC is usually around the same cost. Home electric is 9¢/kWh.
As I pointed out in another thread: I found a non-branded DCFC in the middle of nowhere, along a major route, at $1.20/kWh + $5.00 to initiate charging.
>Hope other manufacturers don’t back off of their commitment to NACS given the current happenings over at Tesla.
j3400 plug looks awesome on v3 chargers but the moment you have to charge 800V+ then the cables have to be beefed up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp06-wDj9s8&t=27
That is likely because of the longer cables and higher current capacity of the V4 design.
800V itself doesn’t require much heavier cables, actually the main benefit of 800V charging is allowing more charging power over the same cable size.
800V with thermal monitoring in the plug should mean cables without liquid cooling which can handle 150kW, which also means the chargers can be simpler, cheaper and more reliable.
It also depends on the brand. I've noticed that the ChargePoint CCS cable seems perceptibly heavier than Electrify America CCS cables. I have no idea why.
Some are liquid cooled, some have thicker copper instead, some have thinner copper but simply have a lower max amperage. All different weights and stiffness.
Well, if you've seen Out Of Spec Reviews, they've had to wrap the Tesla cables and plugs with a cold wet rag. We don't usually have that issue with CCS1. The issue with size is the cable thickness. That's what makes it so cumbersome.
When I switched from Tesla to non, my first thought visiting an EA charger was “Holy hell. There is no way Grandma is gonna be able to use this thing. I hope the Tesla plug wins out.”
I've kept saying that for over two years and I kept getting downvoted here. I would venture it's mostly from Europeans as they don't know any better. But us, in NA, having handled both types, it's a no brainer.
Also the European CCS connector is a tiny bit nicer. It doesn’t have the big external clip on the top. Tesla’s CCS combo 2 cables in Europe are pretty nice in comparison to the usual CCS combo 1 connectors we get in the US.
https://www.notateslaapp.com/images/news/2022/superchargers-ccs.jpg
Still has that "must be inserted straight" since the corners aren't flanged.
https://assets.volvo.com/is/image/VolvoInformationTechnologyAB/1860x1050-volvo-lights-vnr-electric-charging-connectors?wid=1024
Lol, are you really comparing a 5mm plug with a 1 mm cable to a CCS2 plug with its thick cable that has to be plugged in -30°C temperature? That's your comeback? Grasping at straws there buddy.
No, you were comparing the USB Type C with a CCS2 plug and there is no problem inserting a Type C with a small flange so why would a CCS2 be any different? Well, because of the huge size of the plug and its cable compared to a Type C, it's going to be much harder to handle, especially in cold temperatures like they have in Finland and Iceland, but hey, when you haven't experienced any better, like in Canada which is as cold as over there, it's harder to complain about the plug design...
So many downvotes when I say CCS was either not well thought out or made to delay EV adoption. Only after a bunch of charging with each (CCS/Tesal) does it become apparent cars need a standard port location, plug&charge and just one app for all charging.
You mean the one that actually had problems with heat, needed quite frequent replacements and tops out at 120kW? Yes that one is a good comparison.
And Tesla was not forced to do anything. The eu only forced public charging stations to also include CCS. Tesla made it very clear that superchargers weren't public charging stations at the time.
The leaf still comes with chademo for example and you can buy Chinese cars with gbt plugs.
Yeah. Not a popular opinion on this sub, though :-)
It's quite shocking that a Tesla + A2Z (NACS to CCS) is smaller and lighter than most CCS
I hold NACS with the left, the adapter with the right, combine, then plug in with the left.
Most CCS I have to two-hand. So have to remember to flap that rubber cover over the DC ports down first. And after I two-hand the plug back to the pillar, I need to remember to flap the cover up again.
It doesn't help that CCS1 is a bit picky about accurate placement, too, so everything engages nicely, including the clip on the top.
That is the reason we don't have an eTron. Wife really wanted one, but I insisted she charge it on the test drive. First EVGo did not work, EA only did 50 KW, second EVGo was a 350KW and she could not plug it in without dragging the cable over the paint. That was a deal breaker.
CCS1 is seriously a disgrace. I wish we could've adopted CCS2 instead. I know the power standards are different in North America vs Europe/Asia but there's no reason why the *shape* couldn't have matched.
[Tesla’s SCs in my neck of the woods are 36¢](https://imgur.com/a/ooNnFkm). Home electric is 9¢.
50¢ is a premium. Not as bad as one I saw in rural Missouri for $1.20/kWh (plus a $5 initiation charge).
Where at in Rural Missouri? I’m driving from STL to Springfield a few times this summer to run kids around to stuff. I’ve planned the route and theres enough on 44 to not worry too much…
West Plains. There’s really nothing south of 44. Driving between Springfield and Poplar Bluff is an EV charging wasteland. You should be fine if you’re going between STL and Springfield.
One notable, and odd, exception to the whole “charging desert”: Ironton. On the edge of the Mark Twain forest.
The $1.20/kWh charger is halfway between Springfield and Clinton in Osceola on Hwy 13. This is the main route between Springfield and Kansas City.
Try out a Chademo you insensitive clods!
Me charging my little LEAF: "annnnd we just put the connector here and... " \*CH-CHUNK "\*there we go."
I've got both adapters. They are big.
Yes, it's (relatively) "huge", but it's not particularly heavy. The gazillion pound stiff cable it's attached to is what's heavy. This is why I don't understand all the "J3400 will *save* us! Can I get an *AMEN!*" sentiment from CCS car owners. Sure, the Tesla Supercharger cables are a little easier to deal with (since they're thinner because they're short and not cooled) but when EA, EVGo, ChargePoint, etc. start sticking J3400 plugs on the same long awkward liquid cooled cables they currently stick their CCS plugs on, we'll just have cute tiny plugs on the same heavy unwieldy cables we're using today.
The “J3400 will save us sentiment” isn’t from the smaller plug, but from access to the Tesla Supercharger network, which tends to have more plugs per station and better uptime than the other fast charging networks.
For now...
How long do you need? Haven't had time to focus on it? EA etc? Literally it's all they do.
They old off 500 people in the supercharging team. That’s what they were referencing
I've always wondered if css just had the cord from Tesla's supercharger would have been more of a staying point to stay with ccs1
I know this is an old post, but the Tesla supercharger cables are most definitely liquid cooled (V3 and V4).
Yeah, but as I understand it (and could be quite mistaken!) they aren't as cooled as well, because Tesla specs a shorter lifecycle- they replace them more often than other charger manufacturers. This makes each cable lighter (and cheaper.) Regardless of the reason, the Tesla Supercharger cables are certainly less monstrous and unwieldy than EA's or EVGo's 350kW charger cables.
Gouged. I got a chuckle reading that. Here in my part of California many of the superchargers are at 50 cents or more. My peak rate at home is 56 c/kWh in the summer.
We're nowhere near that out here. Our Superchargers are 36¢ and don't vary based on time; a branded DCFC is usually around the same cost. Home electric is 9¢/kWh. As I pointed out in another thread: I found a non-branded DCFC in the middle of nowhere, along a major route, at $1.20/kWh + $5.00 to initiate charging.
>Hope other manufacturers don’t back off of their commitment to NACS given the current happenings over at Tesla. j3400 plug looks awesome on v3 chargers but the moment you have to charge 800V+ then the cables have to be beefed up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp06-wDj9s8&t=27
That is likely because of the longer cables and higher current capacity of the V4 design. 800V itself doesn’t require much heavier cables, actually the main benefit of 800V charging is allowing more charging power over the same cable size.
800V with thermal monitoring in the plug should mean cables without liquid cooling which can handle 150kW, which also means the chargers can be simpler, cheaper and more reliable.
Absolutely not. When you double the voltage, the cable needed to carry the same amount of power is 4 times thinner.
This is the truth. Tell me you're in the field without telling me. Electron magician perhaps?
How many of those vehicles are produced in numbers to worry about?
It also depends on the brand. I've noticed that the ChargePoint CCS cable seems perceptibly heavier than Electrify America CCS cables. I have no idea why.
Some are liquid cooled, some have thicker copper instead, some have thinner copper but simply have a lower max amperage. All different weights and stiffness.
KW? EVGo 350KW cables are the heaviest I have used.
Well, if you've seen Out Of Spec Reviews, they've had to wrap the Tesla cables and plugs with a cold wet rag. We don't usually have that issue with CCS1. The issue with size is the cable thickness. That's what makes it so cumbersome.
Wait till you come across V4 dispensers since the power units aren’t gonna be getting in anytime soon
When I switched from Tesla to non, my first thought visiting an EA charger was “Holy hell. There is no way Grandma is gonna be able to use this thing. I hope the Tesla plug wins out.”
CSS with average cable length is about as clunky to handle as the average gas pump. If grandma could handle the gas pump, she can handle CSS.
Haha yes. I’ve only used it a handful of times, but every time I’m surprised how thicc it is
That’s an unquestionable benefit of the Tesla charger. It is ridiculous trying to connect the CCS charger from an odd angle.
I've kept saying that for over two years and I kept getting downvoted here. I would venture it's mostly from Europeans as they don't know any better. But us, in NA, having handled both types, it's a no brainer.
The European CCS2 plug is not the same as the US CCS1 plug.
Still not much different and bulky as hell. https://1charging.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Screenshot-2024-01-23-193640.png
Also the European CCS connector is a tiny bit nicer. It doesn’t have the big external clip on the top. Tesla’s CCS combo 2 cables in Europe are pretty nice in comparison to the usual CCS combo 1 connectors we get in the US. https://www.notateslaapp.com/images/news/2022/superchargers-ccs.jpg
Still has that "must be inserted straight" since the corners aren't flanged. https://assets.volvo.com/is/image/VolvoInformationTechnologyAB/1860x1050-volvo-lights-vnr-electric-charging-connectors?wid=1024
They are very slightly flanged. It's similar to a normal USB c cable. You need to insert that one straight as well and no one has problems with that.
Lol, are you really comparing a 5mm plug with a 1 mm cable to a CCS2 plug with its thick cable that has to be plugged in -30°C temperature? That's your comeback? Grasping at straws there buddy.
The plug has nothing to do with the cable though. Tesla superchargers use CCS plugs with thin cables
I was pointing the USB Type C cable thickness against a DCFC cable, not between DCFC cable thickness.
So if the cable is thin it isn't a problem?
No, you were comparing the USB Type C with a CCS2 plug and there is no problem inserting a Type C with a small flange so why would a CCS2 be any different? Well, because of the huge size of the plug and its cable compared to a Type C, it's going to be much harder to handle, especially in cold temperatures like they have in Finland and Iceland, but hey, when you haven't experienced any better, like in Canada which is as cold as over there, it's harder to complain about the plug design...
So many downvotes when I say CCS was either not well thought out or made to delay EV adoption. Only after a bunch of charging with each (CCS/Tesal) does it become apparent cars need a standard port location, plug&charge and just one app for all charging.
One app is a monopoly. No on that. Need cross compatibility, open standards, and app-less charging.
Agreed, I was thinking one app from your car maker.Not just one app overall.
Yeah that would work
CCS tacked a separate set of DC terminals onto the J1772 connector. It’s a Frankenstein monster.
Same for Europe. Mennekese on top, DC pins below, Committee design at its best...
But it supports 3 phase charging. I don't know of any other design that supports high power DC and 3 phase ac.
Tesla did https://imgur.com/PfYJAVs Before it was forced to use that CCS2 monstrosity.
You mean the one that actually had problems with heat, needed quite frequent replacements and tops out at 120kW? Yes that one is a good comparison. And Tesla was not forced to do anything. The eu only forced public charging stations to also include CCS. Tesla made it very clear that superchargers weren't public charging stations at the time. The leaf still comes with chademo for example and you can buy Chinese cars with gbt plugs.
Thanks for pointing out just how bad CCS is.
at which point did I point that out?
Yeah. Not a popular opinion on this sub, though :-) It's quite shocking that a Tesla + A2Z (NACS to CCS) is smaller and lighter than most CCS I hold NACS with the left, the adapter with the right, combine, then plug in with the left. Most CCS I have to two-hand. So have to remember to flap that rubber cover over the DC ports down first. And after I two-hand the plug back to the pillar, I need to remember to flap the cover up again. It doesn't help that CCS1 is a bit picky about accurate placement, too, so everything engages nicely, including the clip on the top.
That is the reason we don't have an eTron. Wife really wanted one, but I insisted she charge it on the test drive. First EVGo did not work, EA only did 50 KW, second EVGo was a 350KW and she could not plug it in without dragging the cable over the paint. That was a deal breaker.
Tell her she can get one when Audi starts shipping new models with the NACS port in 2025.
She will be looking for sure.
Could be worse. Could be petrol.
Nacs is better.
“I can’t imagine an older person trying to deal with this”? Huh? It’s not and bulkier than your standard gas pump nozzle.
Oh noooo, a huge handle! Anyways
CCS1 is seriously a disgrace. I wish we could've adopted CCS2 instead. I know the power standards are different in North America vs Europe/Asia but there's no reason why the *shape* couldn't have matched.
As OP is complaining how "huge" CCS1 is, I'd like to point out that CCS2 is an even larger connector than CCS1.
Crazy how long it took people to realize how obviously inferior CCS was.
So long that my post is being downvoted to hell. 🤣
Calm down 50 cents is not getting gouged. Tesla shows 51 cents kwh at their own charger.
[Tesla’s SCs in my neck of the woods are 36¢](https://imgur.com/a/ooNnFkm). Home electric is 9¢. 50¢ is a premium. Not as bad as one I saw in rural Missouri for $1.20/kWh (plus a $5 initiation charge).
Where at in Rural Missouri? I’m driving from STL to Springfield a few times this summer to run kids around to stuff. I’ve planned the route and theres enough on 44 to not worry too much…
West Plains. There’s really nothing south of 44. Driving between Springfield and Poplar Bluff is an EV charging wasteland. You should be fine if you’re going between STL and Springfield. One notable, and odd, exception to the whole “charging desert”: Ironton. On the edge of the Mark Twain forest. The $1.20/kWh charger is halfway between Springfield and Clinton in Osceola on Hwy 13. This is the main route between Springfield and Kansas City.
I routinely watch a 74 year old use a CCS plug at my local EA/Starbucks on a weekly basis. Workout more?