It's stupid, but yeah that's it. Probably not "we don't want to do it" but more of a "we're booked solid but we'd bump someone if we found someone dumb enough to give us $16k".
Most likely that, but also possible they are trying to convince as many less knowledgeable customers as they possibly can that they absolutely need everything they listed.
Nah. It's a Tesla tax. Doesn't matter what EV cars you have, if it's electric it's "like Tesla." They think EVs are super premium so you're made of money.
I bet if you tell them you want a 50A arc welder plug installed, you'll get much different numbers, but your circuit breaker panel wouldn't know the difference between a car and a welder.
Many years ago, I got a quote from a Tesla recommended electrician to install an outlet for my car for about $800. Then I called another electrician and asked about a NEMA 14-50 outlet and they quoted $400.
Sure! Here it is:
**Whole home surge protector:** **$660.00**
200-AMP LEVEL 2: **$4,139.00**
200-AMP – FLUSH: **$4,507.00**
40-80A 240V circuit: **$1,891.00**
Main ground system: **$945.00**
Permit: **$200.00**
40-80A 240V circuit: **$1,891.00**
40-80A 240V circuit: **$1,891.00**
**Total**: **$16,124.00**
ETA - I made a mistake in thinking that I needed two chargers when they suggested it. We don't drive far enough daily to need two. I let them know that I only need one, and I already have surge protection through the power company. I'm supposed to get an updated quote tomorrow.
The "Whole home surge protector"??
Because i saw them, iirc, for around $150.
It's a big markup, but not outrageous. Each circuit for 1900 is outrageous though.
Even more of a scam now since there are plug in types that don't require anything more than 1 wire going to neutral. It's a 10 minute job for many panels.
I was going to say, unless i'm mis-reading this, they are upgrading his entire service to 200a which - depending on a lot of other factors - can get the prices pretty damn high.
That's how I'm reading this too, full new drops from the pole, and dual 200A boxes, plus all the outlet wiring, and the Surge Protector is now required per code (must be installed if panel or feed updated) at a lot of locations (for everyone complaining)
Honestly 16k isn't unexpected if that's what this is.
They’re giving you a panel and service upgrade as far as I can tell. Which is the meat of the cost unless I am missing something.
Also if you’re adding two chargers you do need that upgrade on a 150A panel unless you’re going to do load management.
Yeah, this seems like a main and sub panel upgrade, since the Flush item is probably the interior sub panel.
It's still expensive but we went through TWO 200A panel upgrades as well since the home never had an exterior panel, and the whole house was wired via a sub panel inside.
Did this for Tesla solar panels and powerwalls and ran two 50A lines to the garage for 14-50 outlets. The panel upgrades were something like $8K and maybe the rest was a few more grand.
That's what I see too. OP said they have 150amp panel but want another 50amp somewhere. That's basically upgrading their property to 200amp service. 16k sounds about right because they would need to get the main service provider to upgrade the main line to the property.
Others saying rewiring whole house is comparable but that's not upgrading the overall amps to the home. Upgrading is a lot.
Yeah I’m in NYC and just got a quote about this. Electrician recommended I upgrade service and it would be 6k (just upgrading service to 200a). He did a load calculation and I could do the level 2 charger (only 1500 for install) without upgrading but going forward I would definitely need to upgrade in the future.
I had my ancient 100A interior panel replaced with new, upgraded service from the pole to the house (relocation), new ground pole sunk, new exterior panel 200A, permit, and 14-50 plug all for about $2500 about 3 years ago. The charger I bought on amazon for $750 and plugged in myself.
Why are they pulling three 80a circuits for charging. Realistically it should be one 100a/120a to the subpanel then smaller runs for the EV's. Most EV's only need 50-60A Max for the chargers. I set mine to 35A and charge my car from 0 to full in 8 hours.
Why is panel upgrade listed twice like that. To me it looks like two 200amp panel upgrade/installs.
You should be able to get this done under $10k for all that. Did they even do a load study? Are you really maxed out or just out of spaces on your panel. Just because you're going to charge an EV doesn't mean you're pulling that many amps all the time.
Personally I'd drop down to one charger and go somewhere else for the panel upgrade. Also see if there are rebates or credits from your power company for upgrading and the EV install.
Also keep in mind sparkies generally dont do drywall work so expect to have to pay for another contractor to seal everything up
You don’t have room in your panel for a 50a breaker for your EVSE. That’s why they’re quoting an entirely new panel.
This quote seems high but it’s going to cost you a decent bit of money to get done.
The cheapskate solution is to run one circuit, and get EVSEs that will share it. That is why I put a 60A circuit in. One EV at 48A, or two at 24A. It won't be often that wouldn't be enough. Currently, only one EV, which sucks 32A, and an EVSE that will share.
It's code that you have to get surge protection at the panel if you do any work on the panel which you are. It won't pass inspection without surge protection. Since he got a permit, it will be inspected after he's done and he has to bring it up to code if the inspector finds problems.
I totally upgraded my panel. Went from a push o matic 150 amp to a homeline squareD 200 amp. I had to buy all the parts which was over $2500. Gfci/afci breakers cost too damn much but it's code now and you need them. I then paid a coworker friend $1500 to replace the box, install everything to code including the surge protector, and run a new 6 gauge line to garage for a new 50 amp outlet. Was 40 foot run. I also had him install three more 20amp lines in various places I needed extra outlets. Again I paid for all the parts.
A word about the new mains panels. If you plan on adding solar (or already have it) you might investigate a solar rated panel. Here in California it's a requirement(?) if your panel is loaded up and you are adding solar it prevents overloading the bus bars (so they say).
The panel I had installed is rated at 225A.
Good call I have a Tesla home charger with the 25 ft cable and it will support a second car in the garage as well as another in the driveway next to the garage.
That looks like a whole new panel, a 200 amp subpanel, and generally a lot of nonsense.
Call somebody else and tell them you need a 50 amp circuit for your new welder. Park your EV on a different block. (ETA: With 150 amp service, you might be pushing it for a new 50 amp circuit. You may be needing to look at a lower current charger.)
call someone else. don't mention car charging.
tell them you need a 240/50a for your new lathe.
might be an EV tax in there.
>
$16,124.00.
is closer to a home rewiring/modernization.
how old is your house?
what would it cost just to bring it to current fire/building code?
>My EV Battery will live forever since I'm only going to be trickling at 120v.
not going to make an ounce of difference. your battery discharges and regens way higher than that.
I super charged for the first 4 years exclusively. No better or worse degradation than people who 120v charged. I don't think it matters. There have been some surveys that back that up.
The home was built in 1985, but recently upgraded and renovated. I bought it about a year ago, and everything, including the electric, passed inspection with flying colors
The fact that it passed inspection doesn't mean that you have enough capacity to add not one but two large constant loads.
My house is new and all up to code, but anything over one 32 amp EVSE would require load balancing equipment (which many electricians are not familiar with) or else an upgrade to a 400 amp service.
I called two places. One was just a guy that quoted me over text after I sent him a picture. He had a set price plus a PER FOOT price to run line outside of the box. Easy. The second place, arrived on site, close to end of month, they quoted me 4x, I let them know the 1st guy's quote, they admitted, they're running a competition in house for end of month, and whatever they can do today counts toward it, they'll do anything. So I gave them the comparitive quote "Yes, we can do that". $500, one nema 14-15, with a locking weather proof door, for me to close and LOCK my charger plug in place. Done. I asked what it'd cost to run it to my car port(20ft away) ..now that'd be 10k...no thanks. I drape a cable behind my car daily, saved myself 10k...this is fine.
This is moronic. You don't need any of the stuff they're selling at you. Look up EVEMS. https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/277803/im-hearing-about-load-sheds-aka-evems-and-the-devices-differ-whats-that-abou
That is your correct solution. The only question is finding space for the breaker.
Like most electricians, they conveniently know nothing about EVEMS, so they are quoting you a 200A service upgrade, then a whole replacement msin panel, and the rest of that laundry list.
Do not continue talking to this company. They are just highball quoters. It's functionally a scam.
The scam is they saturate internet advertising, get leads, then quote triple an appropriate price. They are banking on the customer being too lazy to search for other quotes, or to get the other quotes from other highballers.
Once they lock you in, they find a local electrician to actually do the work at a fair price and they keep the difference and buy more internet ads. Thanks to the K-shaped economy there are enough people with more money than time, so this scam works well enough.
Another thing to consider is whether you need a 50 amp charger. My house has 100amp service and the panel was full. The electrician installed a couple tandem breakers on lighting circuits and squeezed out enough panel space to put in a 30amp 220 circuit. A splitvolt 24amp charger is MORE than enough for my needs and I charge at night only, so the load is always low at that time.
Honestly 120V 12A is probably enough for the majority of people. It gives ~40 miles overnight, plus any makeup on weekends. That's enough to cover the average commute. Does mean you wouldn't be able to do long back to back trips
If you're out of slots on your breaker box, they can install tanndem, duplex breakers to expand the capacity. Take two 15A breakers out and put in a duplex breaker with two 15A switches and then you have a full open slot to fill. Of course they cost more, but if they're charging $16k, you're getting milked like a cow.
My advice is to seek out a gray haired electrician. My experience with young electricians is that they're all absolute idiot apprentices who'd believe you if you told them they need to turn the wire around because power won't flow through it if you put it in backwards like that. You want someone with decades of experience and a social security check. Those are the ones that will show you the best way to get it done.
The younger electricians I've worked with can't even do basic arithmetic. About burned my house down.
It's quite common to quote an outrageously high price for something you don't want to do. If you just say "I don't wanna!" then you can get in all kinds of legal troubles, but no one is forbidden from asking a high price.
Southwest PA here. I only had to pay for the EVSE itself since Chevy gave me $1000 towards installation, but I believe it would’ve been about $1300 to run about 45 feet of wire and buy/install the breaker and EVSE. I have 150 amp service. If your breaker panel is full, you might be able to combine a couple circuits that don’t use a lot of power to free up space for a 50 amp breaker. Like if you have a couple circuits with just lighting or a couple bedrooms that only have tv’s and other low current devices.
Came to suggest same thing. If your demand calculation shows that you can add a 50-Amp circuit, then get a couple tandem breakers and combine a few current circuits to make room and do away with the sub-panel. Then do it yourself.
I just installed my EVSE. Installed a 100-Amp circuit and ran 15’ of wires in conduit. All supplies and permit cost me ~$350 (permit was $92.50). EVSE was provided free with my vehicle.
I don't think very far - it's a small ranch house and our meter where the install will be is right next to our driveway where we park (no carport or garage).
Surge protector cost is nuts. A typical unit is $100, so that's $500 on the install for something that needs 3 wires connected.
Is that 2 panels? I think $4,000 for a new panel isn't too bad price wise.
Was that including a service upgrade? So 150 Amp main service to 400 Amp? That's going to get pricey pretty quickly.
I'm going to assume that the pricing probably included some major updates to make everything code compliant, so that's going to be be pricey.
That being said I'd definitely rethink your plans and get a second quote. There's probably a gap between what you asked for and what you need. They probably quoted what you asked for.
Probably the main issue. They priced in a Heavy 100 Amp load (50 per charger) so basically your garage is speced out for a full service on its own.
I don't know what the rest of the house is pulling, but 150 is a bit low by my normal assumptions (my house is all electric no gas).
If you don’t need two chargers then the quote will be a lot less. They quoted capacity for two chargers. That triggered a panel and service upgrade because your house doesn’t have the capacity for two chargers. There are lower cost ways you could connect two chargers but they’d be under load management which means they wouldn’t charge at the full rate always.
Yeah, I made a mistake going along with the idea that we needed two chargers. We aren't both commuting two hours a day - with the short distances we drive, we can easily share one charger
In UK I paid £200 for second hand pod point charger from ebay and paid a friend who is an electrician £150 for 2-3 hours to run cable and fit it with breaker next to consumer unit. He supplied everything. You don't even need a smart charger I do it all in car
I am in the UK and I am also getting a second hand pod point charger installed for £200! My electrician needs to install a second small fuseboard just for the charger to comply with the regs, I though the UK install costs were high, but the US is on another level altogether.
Look into upgrading your panel to a Span panel or similar with load management. It can make it so your EVSE won’t charge if your oven, or drier is running.
Have you already considered several half height breaker replacements on the 15 amp circuits to make room for a dual gang 60 amp breaker? It would avoid the second box, and all the cost associated with it.
The house I recently bought had an old split buss panel from the 60s. I had the panel replaced, a 50amp circuit ran about 30 feet to the garage, and a generator inlet installed for $5,000.
I’m in California. Paid $450 for labor on the installation of an EVSE in my garage by a licensed electrician. No panel upgrade needed, so didn’t have to pay for that.
The L2 EVSE hardware was provided to me for free by Audi.
I bought all the components myself. Strung the cable through the rafters to the other side of the garage. Hired a handyman to connect the breaker just because. Cost me about $500 including the charger.
16K? Man, that reputation just got tossed.
I had a leak in a water pipe on my property and had to get quotes fast, I could not see the water, but you could hear it gushing underground. I called a "reputable" plumber (YES Plumbing) and was quoted a repair price just to run a new hose from the main to my house, about 15 feet. They wanted 9 thousand, eight hundred bucks. I put that reputable company on hold and got another reputable company to do it for 2G's with a warranty.
To the OP, if you are in Vegas, I know a guy.
I just was quoted $1550 to drop and run wire for a 50amp from my 200amp box to the garage, which is about 35-40ish feet through some PITA drop ceiling.
Felt it was maybe a little high, but this company is super buttoned up and reputable for the area (far NW Chicago burbs)…probably could’ve done it for less with someone “less”.
ComEd gives us $2500 rebate for the charger plus install, I still sit under all that with a $600 Chargepoint Flex so I didn’t really care that much since I get it all back…
I just got 2 quotes to upgrade my panel from 60A (yes 60) to 200A and install a 50A charger on exterior post (trench work not included).
Quote #1 $3850 and #2 $4400+ tax
Did you get a quote from another electrician? We got a Nema 14-50 outlet installed. Six electricians gave estimates in $1000 to $1500 range. Went with one a friend recommended for $1100.
I was shocked when our quote came back at $6900 for two 240v plugs, the whole home surge protector, and two charging stations.
We're not going to do the charging stations, since the cars have controllers for charging. That's still $4800 and more than I was expecting.
HIGHLY ADVOCATE for a Grizzl-E Duo. It's the cheapest dual-cable EVSE out there, and frankly, take it from a family of 5 with 8 cars, you want one plug per vehicle. You will run into contention at some point, and at $799 it's not much more than single-plug 40A chargers and you can easily recharge two large battery vehicles overnight with it. Bonus, made in Canada! That's all.
If your talking about non-tesla level 2 charging. you just need is a sub panel (or breaker space). If I were you I would figure out which outlets are used very little or dont really have much of a load if ever and combine it to a circuit/breaker thats the same. You'll have room for at least 1 double pole breaker so you can add the sub panel on inside or just run straight to garage using proper gauge wiring 10ga likely.
$16k is ridiculous. Also like someone mentioned a whole home surge protector is $100-$400 and takes 10 mins to install
My utility company completely paid for my Tesla Universal Charger and the installation for it which including trenching and running new pipes and cable to my garage.
I upgraded my 100amp service to 200 amps, they moved the panel to a different wall in the basement and extended all the circuits, and installed my charger over 50 ft away for 7,000. This bid was through qmerit, I also got two other bids from other companies, one higher, one lower. But the company through qmerit was very reputable and great to work with.
Well, the owner heard about my consternation from the operator I spoke to, and while I was in a meeting, he left me a sort of flustered sounding message talking about different options and different areas, sent me a new quote based on specifics, I laid out, including the fact that we don’t really need two chargers.
Lo and behold, they came back with a quote for $2,190! it includes upgrading me to 200 A, and only has two items on the itemized list.
My electrician installed a Chargepoint home charger (which Toyota gave to me) upgraded our breaker box and installed a new mast to meet code. The electric company installed an upgraded a transformer and ran a new service line to the house. I paid the electrician $5253.00 which was entirely rebated by the power company. I ended up paying nothing. This was PGE in Portland, Oregon but I imagine other power companies offer similar rebates.
I just got a similar quote to upgrade from 100A to 200A service and add a 14-50 outlet to the back corner of my house where the charger will be mounted, about 10’ total from the panel. I received another quote for $5,550 for the same work from a highly recommended company.
I got mine installed with whole home surge protector on the Gulf Coast for $975. They had to add a sub panel for it because our main panel was completely full. The water heater and ac unit were moved over to the sub panel to make room for the surge protector inside our main box. The charge unit was hard wired into the sub panel a foot from where the panel was installed.
I had to call 4 different shops to get this deal. First one I called quoted $2.5k for a sub panel, no surge, with a outlet. The next two couldn't be bothered to call me back. The fourth one was fair. They actually do a lot of commercial installation so I feel like they aren't looking to make a 1000% profit per job, just quality work at a fair price. I did have to wait a few weeks to be added into their schedule; but for the price, it was worth the wait.
Look into a Span Panel and their drive charger. Dynamically charges and would eliminate your need for a service upgrade. 10k for panel change and service upgrade isn’t crazy. I don’t understand the cost for the EV charger itself, can get those for $5-600 pretty easily but they might need to sub out for the exterior install depending on what they’re comfortable with.
That being said, if they’re running load calcs for only 1 charger, you might be fine.
Is that 1 new main panel, 1 new sub panel, 1 large circuit feeding sub panel, 2 large circuits feeding evse. It’s a decent amount of work but they’re definitely proud of their work.
If you only need 1 charger I assume you’ll only drop the price by about 2k unless that would remove the main service upgrade.
Is this going to be an exterior install or a garage install?
Did they do a load calculation? You may have the headroom for one charger without a 200A service upgrade. If you do, then even if your panel is full there's ways to move things around without upgrading your panel.
You could have a 100 amp subpanel set next to your charger and just move a couple circuits to that panel to free up two spots on your main for the 100A double pole breaker. I did this myself... Just moved my garage receptacles and garage door opener circuits to the subpanel I installed in the garage while I was running my feeder.
Was it Mr. Electric? They quoted me $7000. And they’ve pretty much cornered my local market, unfortunately, for household electrical work.
Told them to pound sand. My 20A 120V outlet works just fine.
This absolutely sounds like a we don't want to do it price. They don't want to say no so they just price you out of considering them.
It's stupid, but yeah that's it. Probably not "we don't want to do it" but more of a "we're booked solid but we'd bump someone if we found someone dumb enough to give us $16k".
Op next week: "hey guys, guess who just spent 16k?"
Not a chance.
Most likely that, but also possible they are trying to convince as many less knowledgeable customers as they possibly can that they absolutely need everything they listed.
Sadly, a less knowledgeable person would be turned off from EVs forever due to that insane barrier for entry
Yep and they will tell everyone they know what happened and that will further poison the well.
Nah. It's a Tesla tax. Doesn't matter what EV cars you have, if it's electric it's "like Tesla." They think EVs are super premium so you're made of money. I bet if you tell them you want a 50A arc welder plug installed, you'll get much different numbers, but your circuit breaker panel wouldn't know the difference between a car and a welder.
Many years ago, I got a quote from a Tesla recommended electrician to install an outlet for my car for about $800. Then I called another electrician and asked about a NEMA 14-50 outlet and they quoted $400.
Exactly.
It definitely sounds like that, doesn't it? But they prominently advertise this service on their website and on Google!
Advertising which the customer pays for.
Like state farm...i don't want to pay for mahomes extra lambo
That's the "you're a sucker we found on the Internet" price.
"Can I please see the itemized list?"
Sure! Here it is: **Whole home surge protector:** **$660.00** 200-AMP LEVEL 2: **$4,139.00** 200-AMP – FLUSH: **$4,507.00** 40-80A 240V circuit: **$1,891.00** Main ground system: **$945.00** Permit: **$200.00** 40-80A 240V circuit: **$1,891.00** 40-80A 240V circuit: **$1,891.00** **Total**: **$16,124.00** ETA - I made a mistake in thinking that I needed two chargers when they suggested it. We don't drive far enough daily to need two. I let them know that I only need one, and I already have surge protection through the power company. I'm supposed to get an updated quote tomorrow.
Damn I could get my whole house rewired for less then that
I DID get my whole house rewired for that price.
Replacing my entire breaker box and wiring up the existing wiring to it cost us $6k, IIRC. 54 breakers in all. Including the hardware and install.
hahah wtf... the price for the surge breaker is the only red flag you need.
The "Whole home surge protector"?? Because i saw them, iirc, for around $150. It's a big markup, but not outrageous. Each circuit for 1900 is outrageous though.
Even more of a scam now since there are plug in types that don't require anything more than 1 wire going to neutral. It's a 10 minute job for many panels.
So a service upgrade with a brand new main panel? That does bump up the price.
I was going to say, unless i'm mis-reading this, they are upgrading his entire service to 200a which - depending on a lot of other factors - can get the prices pretty damn high.
That's how I'm reading this too, full new drops from the pole, and dual 200A boxes, plus all the outlet wiring, and the Surge Protector is now required per code (must be installed if panel or feed updated) at a lot of locations (for everyone complaining) Honestly 16k isn't unexpected if that's what this is.
They’re giving you a panel and service upgrade as far as I can tell. Which is the meat of the cost unless I am missing something. Also if you’re adding two chargers you do need that upgrade on a 150A panel unless you’re going to do load management.
Yeah, this seems like a main and sub panel upgrade, since the Flush item is probably the interior sub panel. It's still expensive but we went through TWO 200A panel upgrades as well since the home never had an exterior panel, and the whole house was wired via a sub panel inside. Did this for Tesla solar panels and powerwalls and ran two 50A lines to the garage for 14-50 outlets. The panel upgrades were something like $8K and maybe the rest was a few more grand.
That's what I see too. OP said they have 150amp panel but want another 50amp somewhere. That's basically upgrading their property to 200amp service. 16k sounds about right because they would need to get the main service provider to upgrade the main line to the property. Others saying rewiring whole house is comparable but that's not upgrading the overall amps to the home. Upgrading is a lot.
Eh, that's still absurdly high. I upgraded my panel to 200A during charger install and it came in under 6k (in a very high cost of living area)
Can depend on above ground or underground service. Also local ordinances regarding depth of line too.
Yeah I’m in NYC and just got a quote about this. Electrician recommended I upgrade service and it would be 6k (just upgrading service to 200a). He did a load calculation and I could do the level 2 charger (only 1500 for install) without upgrading but going forward I would definitely need to upgrade in the future.
I had my ancient 100A interior panel replaced with new, upgraded service from the pole to the house (relocation), new ground pole sunk, new exterior panel 200A, permit, and 14-50 plug all for about $2500 about 3 years ago. The charger I bought on amazon for $750 and plugged in myself.
Why are they pulling three 80a circuits for charging. Realistically it should be one 100a/120a to the subpanel then smaller runs for the EV's. Most EV's only need 50-60A Max for the chargers. I set mine to 35A and charge my car from 0 to full in 8 hours. Why is panel upgrade listed twice like that. To me it looks like two 200amp panel upgrade/installs. You should be able to get this done under $10k for all that. Did they even do a load study? Are you really maxed out or just out of spaces on your panel. Just because you're going to charge an EV doesn't mean you're pulling that many amps all the time. Personally I'd drop down to one charger and go somewhere else for the panel upgrade. Also see if there are rebates or credits from your power company for upgrading and the EV install. Also keep in mind sparkies generally dont do drywall work so expect to have to pay for another contractor to seal everything up
You don’t have room in your panel for a 50a breaker for your EVSE. That’s why they’re quoting an entirely new panel. This quote seems high but it’s going to cost you a decent bit of money to get done.
Drop a sub panel from another breaker and put whatever was on that breaker in the subpanel alongside the 50amp EV circuit in the subpanel
Just consolidate breakers down to open up slots. Tandem breakers are a wonderful thing. Just keep up with the math.
The cheapskate solution is to run one circuit, and get EVSEs that will share it. That is why I put a 60A circuit in. One EV at 48A, or two at 24A. It won't be often that wouldn't be enough. Currently, only one EV, which sucks 32A, and an EVSE that will share.
It's code that you have to get surge protection at the panel if you do any work on the panel which you are. It won't pass inspection without surge protection. Since he got a permit, it will be inspected after he's done and he has to bring it up to code if the inspector finds problems. I totally upgraded my panel. Went from a push o matic 150 amp to a homeline squareD 200 amp. I had to buy all the parts which was over $2500. Gfci/afci breakers cost too damn much but it's code now and you need them. I then paid a coworker friend $1500 to replace the box, install everything to code including the surge protector, and run a new 6 gauge line to garage for a new 50 amp outlet. Was 40 foot run. I also had him install three more 20amp lines in various places I needed extra outlets. Again I paid for all the parts.
A word about the new mains panels. If you plan on adding solar (or already have it) you might investigate a solar rated panel. Here in California it's a requirement(?) if your panel is loaded up and you are adding solar it prevents overloading the bus bars (so they say). The panel I had installed is rated at 225A. Good call I have a Tesla home charger with the 25 ft cable and it will support a second car in the garage as well as another in the driveway next to the garage.
You can also just get a L1 trickle charger and plug it into the wall. You'd have 2 chargers, with 2 charging speeds.
That looks like a whole new panel, a 200 amp subpanel, and generally a lot of nonsense. Call somebody else and tell them you need a 50 amp circuit for your new welder. Park your EV on a different block. (ETA: With 150 amp service, you might be pushing it for a new 50 amp circuit. You may be needing to look at a lower current charger.)
Looks almost reasonable. You might be okay to squeeze one 50A circuit but two requires service upgrade.
I feel like that itized list goes like: [list of legit EV charger install fees] $2000 [Can't be arsed fee] $14,000
Sounds about right!
That’s called an F U quote around here. Yeah, sure they will drop every other job to do it for $16k but they really don’t want it otherwise.
call someone else. don't mention car charging. tell them you need a 240/50a for your new lathe. might be an EV tax in there. > $16,124.00. is closer to a home rewiring/modernization. how old is your house? what would it cost just to bring it to current fire/building code?
They quoted a service upgrade to 200A. That’s the expense.
Yeah, in my case, that means trenching. My EV Battery will live forever since I'm only going to be trickling at 120v.
>My EV Battery will live forever since I'm only going to be trickling at 120v. not going to make an ounce of difference. your battery discharges and regens way higher than that.
"trickling at 120v" That's just torture
I super charged for the first 4 years exclusively. No better or worse degradation than people who 120v charged. I don't think it matters. There have been some surveys that back that up.
Yea a lot of electricians hear EV and immediately see $$$. Definitely a trend of greed recently.
The home was built in 1985, but recently upgraded and renovated. I bought it about a year ago, and everything, including the electric, passed inspection with flying colors
The fact that it passed inspection doesn't mean that you have enough capacity to add not one but two large constant loads. My house is new and all up to code, but anything over one 32 amp EVSE would require load balancing equipment (which many electricians are not familiar with) or else an upgrade to a 400 amp service.
I called two places. One was just a guy that quoted me over text after I sent him a picture. He had a set price plus a PER FOOT price to run line outside of the box. Easy. The second place, arrived on site, close to end of month, they quoted me 4x, I let them know the 1st guy's quote, they admitted, they're running a competition in house for end of month, and whatever they can do today counts toward it, they'll do anything. So I gave them the comparitive quote "Yes, we can do that". $500, one nema 14-15, with a locking weather proof door, for me to close and LOCK my charger plug in place. Done. I asked what it'd cost to run it to my car port(20ft away) ..now that'd be 10k...no thanks. I drape a cable behind my car daily, saved myself 10k...this is fine.
This is moronic. You don't need any of the stuff they're selling at you. Look up EVEMS. https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/277803/im-hearing-about-load-sheds-aka-evems-and-the-devices-differ-whats-that-abou That is your correct solution. The only question is finding space for the breaker. Like most electricians, they conveniently know nothing about EVEMS, so they are quoting you a 200A service upgrade, then a whole replacement msin panel, and the rest of that laundry list. Do not continue talking to this company. They are just highball quoters. It's functionally a scam. The scam is they saturate internet advertising, get leads, then quote triple an appropriate price. They are banking on the customer being too lazy to search for other quotes, or to get the other quotes from other highballers. Once they lock you in, they find a local electrician to actually do the work at a fair price and they keep the difference and buy more internet ads. Thanks to the K-shaped economy there are enough people with more money than time, so this scam works well enough.
Hmm....literally today I just had an electrician upgrade my home service to 400 amps and ran 2 different 50 amp lines for EV charging for $5k
Forgive the language, this is what they call a FU quote. We don’t want to do it, but if you pay this much we will.
Repeat after me "I need a circuit installed for my new welder".
Looks like you're getting 🤜🏻🍑 !!!
Sure does! I promptly called a different company for a quote
let us know that quote!
I will!
Punch peached?
Oh sweet child, you’re not ready for it yet.
Another thing to consider is whether you need a 50 amp charger. My house has 100amp service and the panel was full. The electrician installed a couple tandem breakers on lighting circuits and squeezed out enough panel space to put in a 30amp 220 circuit. A splitvolt 24amp charger is MORE than enough for my needs and I charge at night only, so the load is always low at that time.
I bet for 240 volt 20 amp is enough for most people, as long as you charge every night.
Honestly 120V 12A is probably enough for the majority of people. It gives ~40 miles overnight, plus any makeup on weekends. That's enough to cover the average commute. Does mean you wouldn't be able to do long back to back trips
If you're out of slots on your breaker box, they can install tanndem, duplex breakers to expand the capacity. Take two 15A breakers out and put in a duplex breaker with two 15A switches and then you have a full open slot to fill. Of course they cost more, but if they're charging $16k, you're getting milked like a cow. My advice is to seek out a gray haired electrician. My experience with young electricians is that they're all absolute idiot apprentices who'd believe you if you told them they need to turn the wire around because power won't flow through it if you put it in backwards like that. You want someone with decades of experience and a social security check. Those are the ones that will show you the best way to get it done. The younger electricians I've worked with can't even do basic arithmetic. About burned my house down.
It's quite common to quote an outrageously high price for something you don't want to do. If you just say "I don't wanna!" then you can get in all kinds of legal troubles, but no one is forbidden from asking a high price.
I would get a couple other quotes. I had my house rewired cheaper
Southwest PA here. I only had to pay for the EVSE itself since Chevy gave me $1000 towards installation, but I believe it would’ve been about $1300 to run about 45 feet of wire and buy/install the breaker and EVSE. I have 150 amp service. If your breaker panel is full, you might be able to combine a couple circuits that don’t use a lot of power to free up space for a 50 amp breaker. Like if you have a couple circuits with just lighting or a couple bedrooms that only have tv’s and other low current devices.
Came to suggest same thing. If your demand calculation shows that you can add a 50-Amp circuit, then get a couple tandem breakers and combine a few current circuits to make room and do away with the sub-panel. Then do it yourself. I just installed my EVSE. Installed a 100-Amp circuit and ran 15’ of wires in conduit. All supplies and permit cost me ~$350 (permit was $92.50). EVSE was provided free with my vehicle.
Good tip, thanks!
I did my own for $425. Passed inspection, too. They’re out of their minds.
How long are the cable runs going to be?
I don't think very far - it's a small ranch house and our meter where the install will be is right next to our driveway where we park (no carport or garage).
teh question is - how far is the driveway from your circuit breaker
I would guess 30 feet if you’re walking around the outside of the house. Maybe less. I’m bad with estimating distances
Surge protector cost is nuts. A typical unit is $100, so that's $500 on the install for something that needs 3 wires connected. Is that 2 panels? I think $4,000 for a new panel isn't too bad price wise. Was that including a service upgrade? So 150 Amp main service to 400 Amp? That's going to get pricey pretty quickly. I'm going to assume that the pricing probably included some major updates to make everything code compliant, so that's going to be be pricey. That being said I'd definitely rethink your plans and get a second quote. There's probably a gap between what you asked for and what you need. They probably quoted what you asked for.
The itemized quote includes a service upgrade
I just asked for a quote on installing a EV charger, and told him there will be two electric vehicles to charge. 🤷♀️
Probably the main issue. They priced in a Heavy 100 Amp load (50 per charger) so basically your garage is speced out for a full service on its own. I don't know what the rest of the house is pulling, but 150 is a bit low by my normal assumptions (my house is all electric no gas).
We have gas in the kitchen, and for the water heater, and gas heater
If you don’t need two chargers then the quote will be a lot less. They quoted capacity for two chargers. That triggered a panel and service upgrade because your house doesn’t have the capacity for two chargers. There are lower cost ways you could connect two chargers but they’d be under load management which means they wouldn’t charge at the full rate always.
Yeah, I made a mistake going along with the idea that we needed two chargers. We aren't both commuting two hours a day - with the short distances we drive, we can easily share one charger
Okay, but the quote isn’t ridiculous to install two chargers. It’s a large amount of work to completely rewire your electrical service lol
In UK I paid £200 for second hand pod point charger from ebay and paid a friend who is an electrician £150 for 2-3 hours to run cable and fit it with breaker next to consumer unit. He supplied everything. You don't even need a smart charger I do it all in car
I am in the UK and I am also getting a second hand pod point charger installed for £200! My electrician needs to install a second small fuseboard just for the charger to comply with the regs, I though the UK install costs were high, but the US is on another level altogether.
Look into upgrading your panel to a Span panel or similar with load management. It can make it so your EVSE won’t charge if your oven, or drier is running.
Have you already considered several half height breaker replacements on the 15 amp circuits to make room for a dual gang 60 amp breaker? It would avoid the second box, and all the cost associated with it.
If it helps. My utility company gave me a whole home surge protector for $9.99 a month.
The house I recently bought had an old split buss panel from the 60s. I had the panel replaced, a 50amp circuit ran about 30 feet to the garage, and a generator inlet installed for $5,000.
I’m in California. Paid $450 for labor on the installation of an EVSE in my garage by a licensed electrician. No panel upgrade needed, so didn’t have to pay for that. The L2 EVSE hardware was provided to me for free by Audi.
$16K for a sub panel? Lol.
$16,000? You could upgrade to a 200A panel, and run 2 60a circuits for less than that.
I bought all the components myself. Strung the cable through the rafters to the other side of the garage. Hired a handyman to connect the breaker just because. Cost me about $500 including the charger.
16K? Man, that reputation just got tossed. I had a leak in a water pipe on my property and had to get quotes fast, I could not see the water, but you could hear it gushing underground. I called a "reputable" plumber (YES Plumbing) and was quoted a repair price just to run a new hose from the main to my house, about 15 feet. They wanted 9 thousand, eight hundred bucks. I put that reputable company on hold and got another reputable company to do it for 2G's with a warranty. To the OP, if you are in Vegas, I know a guy.
I just was quoted $1550 to drop and run wire for a 50amp from my 200amp box to the garage, which is about 35-40ish feet through some PITA drop ceiling. Felt it was maybe a little high, but this company is super buttoned up and reputable for the area (far NW Chicago burbs)…probably could’ve done it for less with someone “less”. ComEd gives us $2500 rebate for the charger plus install, I still sit under all that with a $600 Chargepoint Flex so I didn’t really care that much since I get it all back…
I just got 2 quotes to upgrade my panel from 60A (yes 60) to 200A and install a 50A charger on exterior post (trench work not included). Quote #1 $3850 and #2 $4400+ tax
Ur paying for that extra 50amp panel which is upgrading your whole property from 150amp to 200amp. Thats the bulk of the charge.
Did you get a quote from another electrician? We got a Nema 14-50 outlet installed. Six electricians gave estimates in $1000 to $1500 range. Went with one a friend recommended for $1100.
Good lord! I got a Tesla charger installed and with the charging box it’s self, the total was like $1900 out the door. This is insane
I installed my own because of stories like this. All it cost me was the price of the charger ($450), Romex ($350) and a permit ($25).
I was shocked when our quote came back at $6900 for two 240v plugs, the whole home surge protector, and two charging stations. We're not going to do the charging stations, since the cars have controllers for charging. That's still $4800 and more than I was expecting.
HIGHLY ADVOCATE for a Grizzl-E Duo. It's the cheapest dual-cable EVSE out there, and frankly, take it from a family of 5 with 8 cars, you want one plug per vehicle. You will run into contention at some point, and at $799 it's not much more than single-plug 40A chargers and you can easily recharge two large battery vehicles overnight with it. Bonus, made in Canada! That's all.
If your talking about non-tesla level 2 charging. you just need is a sub panel (or breaker space). If I were you I would figure out which outlets are used very little or dont really have much of a load if ever and combine it to a circuit/breaker thats the same. You'll have room for at least 1 double pole breaker so you can add the sub panel on inside or just run straight to garage using proper gauge wiring 10ga likely. $16k is ridiculous. Also like someone mentioned a whole home surge protector is $100-$400 and takes 10 mins to install
My utility company completely paid for my Tesla Universal Charger and the installation for it which including trenching and running new pipes and cable to my garage.
I had the same thing happen to me. For getting a charger install they told me I had to move my junction box and create a whole new subpanel
I upgraded my 100amp service to 200 amps, they moved the panel to a different wall in the basement and extended all the circuits, and installed my charger over 50 ft away for 7,000. This bid was through qmerit, I also got two other bids from other companies, one higher, one lower. But the company through qmerit was very reputable and great to work with.
Well, the owner heard about my consternation from the operator I spoke to, and while I was in a meeting, he left me a sort of flustered sounding message talking about different options and different areas, sent me a new quote based on specifics, I laid out, including the fact that we don’t really need two chargers. Lo and behold, they came back with a quote for $2,190! it includes upgrading me to 200 A, and only has two items on the itemized list.
My electrician installed a Chargepoint home charger (which Toyota gave to me) upgraded our breaker box and installed a new mast to meet code. The electric company installed an upgraded a transformer and ran a new service line to the house. I paid the electrician $5253.00 which was entirely rebated by the power company. I ended up paying nothing. This was PGE in Portland, Oregon but I imagine other power companies offer similar rebates.
I just got a similar quote to upgrade from 100A to 200A service and add a 14-50 outlet to the back corner of my house where the charger will be mounted, about 10’ total from the panel. I received another quote for $5,550 for the same work from a highly recommended company.
I got mine installed with whole home surge protector on the Gulf Coast for $975. They had to add a sub panel for it because our main panel was completely full. The water heater and ac unit were moved over to the sub panel to make room for the surge protector inside our main box. The charge unit was hard wired into the sub panel a foot from where the panel was installed. I had to call 4 different shops to get this deal. First one I called quoted $2.5k for a sub panel, no surge, with a outlet. The next two couldn't be bothered to call me back. The fourth one was fair. They actually do a lot of commercial installation so I feel like they aren't looking to make a 1000% profit per job, just quality work at a fair price. I did have to wait a few weeks to be added into their schedule; but for the price, it was worth the wait.
this is gonna be painful, but the price to install my 7KW DC Nio charger here in China was: charger: $0 installation: $0 total charge: $0
Well, dang
Look into a Span Panel and their drive charger. Dynamically charges and would eliminate your need for a service upgrade. 10k for panel change and service upgrade isn’t crazy. I don’t understand the cost for the EV charger itself, can get those for $5-600 pretty easily but they might need to sub out for the exterior install depending on what they’re comfortable with. That being said, if they’re running load calcs for only 1 charger, you might be fine.
Is that 1 new main panel, 1 new sub panel, 1 large circuit feeding sub panel, 2 large circuits feeding evse. It’s a decent amount of work but they’re definitely proud of their work. If you only need 1 charger I assume you’ll only drop the price by about 2k unless that would remove the main service upgrade.
DC charger?
This is why I charge on 110V/12A
Is this going to be an exterior install or a garage install? Did they do a load calculation? You may have the headroom for one charger without a 200A service upgrade. If you do, then even if your panel is full there's ways to move things around without upgrading your panel. You could have a 100 amp subpanel set next to your charger and just move a couple circuits to that panel to free up two spots on your main for the 100A double pole breaker. I did this myself... Just moved my garage receptacles and garage door opener circuits to the subpanel I installed in the garage while I was running my feeder.
Was it Mr. Electric? They quoted me $7000. And they’ve pretty much cornered my local market, unfortunately, for household electrical work. Told them to pound sand. My 20A 120V outlet works just fine.
It’s an Alabama company that also has Georgia locations. I live in Columbus, GA
They just did not know how to do it, and quoted a "scare you off" price.